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      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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the_abandoned_brane

thats gonna leave a mark.

63 posts in this topic

well that was a horrifying way to start the day

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Driving in the icy mush vs the clean tracked out stuff they were in trouble the second they changed lanes.

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I bet the delivery truck guy needs a fresh a fresh pair of shorts. From the looks of it he had some weight in the truck and that probably saved his ass. Gave him enough mass to take the hit and enough traction to get the truck pointed away from oncoming traffic. The CUV looks like it exploded into a million pieces doubt the passengers survived. Man shit can go pear shaped fast ehh?

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people with SUVs underestimate ice. seen it a million times, 4wd does nothing to help on the stuff.

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I'm having serious doubts that anyone in that Suburbany thingy survived that one.......

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DTS for sure

 

So what caused that to happen? Open rear end, hits the gas too hard, one rear tire spins, the other jumps in to compensate, left-right-left?....

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So much for crumple zones that keep the occupants safe. The SUV just disintegrated.

 

Ferk. Hope they died quickly.

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I think the first thing that happened is the brake light came on. Rears locked up?

 

Then, got scared and stomped harder on the brake?

 

My WAG.

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going to guess he caught some bad air off the box truck, started to wiggle a little bit and rather than keeping a light hand on the wheel he braked. Then discovered the snow in the median actually offered better traction that doesn't help so much when it is only on one side. The guy in the box truck handled it like a pro, but will likely face disciplinary actions and massive insurance penalties when he gets back to work, unless he can get a copy of this video.

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Do you think it'll buff out?unsure.gif

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DTS for sure

 

So what caused that to happen? Open rear end, hits the gas too hard, one rear tire spins, the other jumps in to compensate, left-right-left?....

 

texting . . . <_<

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that has Arizona written all over it... no salt

 

Same up in Alaska, tons of gravel, but no salt.

 

Generally far more snow here in upstate NY, but damn it, the road crews are actually very good and salt the fuck out of it.

 

That road didn't look all that bad, operator error.

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Looked like a minivan to me. Poor bastards were probably spoon jobs. And I'll bet the brakes were locked solid.

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That road didn't look all that bad, operator error.

the behaviour of the vehicles suggest a lot of ice. it appears the suv started slightly losing it, drifted to his left, then the driver both hit the brakes and over compensated in an attempt bring it back, this is when he swung over and hit the box truck.

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That road didn't look all that bad, operator error.

the behaviour of the vehicles suggest a lot of ice. it appears the suv started slightly losing it, drifted to his left, then the driver both hit the brakes and over compensated in an attempt bring it back, this is when he swung over and hit the box truck.

 

Lift off, but don't brake. Operator error - which is truly too bad 'cause I can't see anyone surviving that. It looked like the semi rolled over what didn't explode.

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Notice the delivery truck clip the inbound car? Makes me wonder what happened behind the scene.

 

Sick inquisitive fuck that I am...

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people with SUVs underestimate ice. seen it a million times, 4wd does nothing to help on the stuff.

people with SUV's underestimate physics. Just because you have 4WD and can get going up to 60MPH doesn't mean you can STOP going 60MPH. Most people don't realize accelerating forward has no bearing on ones ability to decelerate back down.

 

Fortunately high gas prices is driving down SUV sales. Slowly.

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people with SUV's underestimate physics. Just because you have 4WD and can get going up to 60MPH doesn't mean you can STOP going 60MPH. Most people don't realize accelerating forward has no bearing on ones ability to decelerate back down.

 

Fortunately high gas prices is driving down SUV sales. Slowly.

they have this notion 4wd gets them better grippage. which it does on snow, ice not so much.

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Please tell me this was some computer geek's final exam in CGI animation.

 

Please.

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Slush at the centerline started sucking the car over.

Numb nuts over corrected, bounced of the cube, and discovered what k=1/2mv^2 means.

 

No need for salt, looks like the road was warm, everything is slushy so it wouldn't have done any good anyways. Learning how to drive in shit would've done that person more good than anything. It's a skill set, and one you lose pretty quickly if not maintained. It's funny, but here at the first sign of a snowflake people have to re-learn that shit. At the end of a long snowy winter, people drive through snow like it isn't there and the statistics don't change much, they just learn to handle it.

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DTS for sure

 

So what caused that to happen? Open rear end, hits the gas too hard, one rear tire spins, the other jumps in to compensate, left-right-left?....

 

texting . . . <_<

That was my guess...One hand on the wheel, one hand up to the ear with the cell phone while trying to drink their Starbux. Natural selection at work.

 

Only way to get out of a fishtail like that is to point the wheels where you want to go and keep your feet off the pedals.

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people with SUV's underestimate physics. Just because you have 4WD and can get going up to 60MPH doesn't mean you can STOP going 60MPH. Most people don't realize accelerating forward has no bearing on ones ability to decelerate back down.

 

Fortunately high gas prices is driving down SUV sales. Slowly.

they have this notion 4wd gets them better grippage. which it does on snow, ice not so much.

Back in the day when I drove Audi Quattros I was at the dealership for something or other. Went back to the service department to talk to my favorite tech. Noticed a whole bunch of quattros up on lifts. Thought it a bit unusual. Tech said-you Q drivers all think that because you can go better than anyone else on bad roads you can stop better as well. Doesn't work that way.

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Being a winter driver myself, and having learned it all in Wisconsin (and having had that same exact thing happen to me, minus the semi and the carnage), the vehicle had no weight in the back. In my case it was a Jeep Cherokee (no weight in back), hit a bit of slush with right front tire, and things started going nonlinear. Fortunately, I knew to take feet off the pedals and concentrate on correcting just enough to straighten back out. After about ~800 yards thing calmed down. Asshole in the Hummer behind me who was tailgating backed *way* the fuck off after that.

 

Since then, whether the jeep or the truck, 500 lbs goes in the back of the vehicle at the slightest hint of crappy weather, and doesn't come out until May.

 

It's 50:50 training and luck. I got lucky, but also "trained" pretty well as a youth doing silly things in parking lots with cars and trucks in winter. If you haven't done any of that, you're down 50% to start with. That video is bad situation for all involved, and it happens way too often.

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When you hit the brakes with the steering wheel turned (or with uneven traction) three things can happen... and two of them are bad, very bad.

 

I took an open wheel driving course and they said: Pretend that there is a string that goes from the steering wheel to your right foot. If you turn the wheel, it will lift your foot off the pedals.. all the pedals. Good advice.

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You do not want to lift your foot off the pedals. Who ever told you that was lying. You want to keep your power as close to neutral as possible. With one of those wacky auto shifters you're going to want to keep a smidgen of power in to keep engine braking at bay. With a manual transmission, you can push in the clutch, which has the added bonus of almost instant power if you need it.

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You do not want to lift your foot off the pedals. Who ever told you that was lying. You want to keep your power as close to neutral as possible. With one of those wacky auto shifters you're going to want to keep a smidgen of power in to keep engine braking at bay. With a manual transmission, you can push in the clutch, which has the added bonus of almost instant power if you need it.

 

You're right that you keep _some_ power to the drive wheels, but pushing in the clutch is the second worst thing to touching the brakes.

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Who drives around with a camera on the dash? Was that a cop? I didn't see any time stamps.

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You do not want to lift your foot off the pedals. Who ever told you that was lying. You want to keep your power as close to neutral as possible. With one of those wacky auto shifters you're going to want to keep a smidgen of power in to keep engine braking at bay. With a manual transmission, you can push in the clutch, which has the added bonus of almost instant power if you need it.

 

You're right that you keep _some_ power to the drive wheels, but pushing in the clutch is the second worst thing to touching the brakes.

 

No, its the closest thing you can get to getting the wheels to completely neutral, and maintaining ground speed.

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I would think (which is to say, I've found) that it makes a difference whether it's front wheel or rear wheel drive. Let off slightly but not a lot, if a sternwheeler; give a slight bit of tug forward if front wheel drive. Aim wheel toward where you want to be, or toward something soft.

 

One time (circa 1985) I was driving way too friggin' fast in maybe 6" of virgin snow and my '73 Subaru started getting a little squirrelly and I let off the gas all at once. Standard shift. The car did an immediate 180, leaving me going backward at around 45 mph. I coasted to a stop, turned around, and drove slower for the rest if the day. I-95 near Chester, PA.

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merde.

 

So why was they guy filming?? I'd say because the SUV had already given him some cause for concern and the cinematographer sensed impending caos. Notice the sensible following distance.

 

Number one cause in my view is driver in-attention.

two, got too far to the left and into the slush

 

f.ing horrendous for the oncoming traffic.

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I've noticed that quite a lot of taxis here are running video cams, some front and rear. I guess they are looping the memory so if there is an accident they can press save and the last 30 mins of video is saved. I expect it helps in insurance claims and "he said/she said" cases.

 

A horrible accident, the tanker driver is going to have some scars for a while.

 

Mucking around in ice or snow on an empty parking lot is a great investment in keeping yourself alive.

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Knarly.

 

These vids are making my case for keeping it slow in the right lane.

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Knarly.

 

These vids are making my case for keeping it slow in the right lane.

 

Yups. It took me about 38 years but I eventually realized one evening that I was not immortal.....

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Knarly.

 

These vids are making my case for keeping it slow in the right lane.

 

Yups. It took me about 38 years but I eventually realized one evening that I was not immortal.....

 

38 years to learn...two beers to forget

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I've noticed that quite a lot of taxis here are running video cams, some front and rear. I guess they are looping the memory so if there is an accident they can press save and the last 30 mins of video is saved. I expect it helps in insurance claims and "he said/she said" cases.

 

I run that style of camera set up. Records on a 45 minute loop. Video gets saved if I tell it to, or if an inertial switch gets tripped (collision). The $200 I spent paid for itself as soon as I T-boned a little Pontiac Vibe that blew clean through a stop sign. The chick lied her ass off. I quietly sat there 'til she was done. Then I offered the video to the cop. It's also kind of fun to record some off-roading antics. In this day and age of lawsuit driven greed, it's not a bad thing to have.

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Holy mother fucking shit. The SUV blew up.

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It's crazy, stuff like this seems so random. One minute you're just driving down the road, really just minding your business then, WHAM, A fucking car is going through your windshield. Unreal.

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What is the deal in that second video? Another car going the wrong way on the interstate?

 

Sweet baby jeebus, that's kinda scary. Absolutely nothing you can do about that shit. You're just F'd.

 

 

A couple of years ago I was driving out to Wyoming to go snowmobiling. It was sometime around 2am, and we're just poking down I-90 in the right lane through South Dakota. A car went wizzing past us in the opposite direction in the other lane. It wasn't until it was past us that all three of us in the pickup realized what had happened.

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What is the deal in that second video? Another car going the wrong way on the interstate?

 

From the video's Youtube page...

 

This crash was apparently caused by a driver in a white Hyundai Azera, who is believed to have blacked out after hitting a car in another accident which happened off camera.

 

The unconscious driver's car then continued down a hill onto the highway where it ploughed into the truck.

 

Three people in the Azera died, while the truck driver was left in critical condition and a couple inside the car with the dashboard camera both suffered minor injuries.

 

On that note, anyone got the story from the first video? I presume all in the SUV were DAS?

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On that note, anyone got the story from the first video? I presume all in the SUV were DAS?

 

The truck rolled over whatever was left of the SUV.

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You do not want to lift your foot off the pedals. Who ever told you that was lying. You want to keep your power as close to neutral as possible. With one of those wacky auto shifters you're going to want to keep a smidgen of power in to keep engine braking at bay. With a manual transmission, you can push in the clutch, which has the added bonus of almost instant power if you need it.

 

You're right that you keep _some_ power to the drive wheels, but pushing in the clutch is the second worst thing to touching the brakes.

 

No, its the closest thing you can get to getting the wheels to completely neutral, and maintaining ground speed.

 

When one set of wheels is in the slush and the other set isn't you still want _some_ power to the drive wheels or you'll pull in the direction of the slush and spin. In that scenario a clutch would not be your friend.

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I run that style of camera set up. Records on a 45 minute loop. Video gets saved if I tell it to, or if an inertial switch gets tripped (collision). The $200 I spent paid for itself...

 

Make, model?

 

Tnx.

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On that note, anyone got the story from the first video? I presume all in the SUV were DAS?

 

The truck rolled over whatever was left of the SUV.

 

The two pieces that weren't vapourised on impact.

 

http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/russiacrash.asp

 

According to an article in the Russian newspaper Komsomolskaya Pravda (as best we can make out through translation software), the accident shown in the video clip linked above took place on 24 February 2012 on the M-7 Highway in Russia. As described by the news account, a 32-year-old Moscow resident named Alexander (no last name given) lost control of his Nissan Navara, collided with another vehicle, and then drifted into an oncoming traffic lane where he was hit head-on by a Freightliner big rig. The driver of the Nissan was killed, and the driver of the big rig suffered moderate injuries.

 

The particular stretch of road where this collision took place has apparently been site of several deadly accidents in recent years, including a 2009 bus crash that killed 12 passengers and a 2007 automobile accident that took the life of Russian actor Aleksandr Dedjushko, his wife, and his son.

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It's crazy, stuff like this seems so random. One minute you're just driving down the road, really just minding your business then, WHAM, A fucking car is going through your windshield. Unreal.

 

That truly sucketh. Imagine if the driver with the cam hadn't had so much as those few seconds time to brake hard, prior to impact.

 

That's the thing a lot of the kids today (and some adults both young & older) just won't absorb regarding shit like texting on the road.... even if they aren't involved primarily in an accident, the ability to react to and possibly mitigate further involvement is forfeited.

 

Self-preservation, or even just a fleeting chance of beating some bad odds, demands active situational awareness.

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IMHO a large number of snow related spin outs or off raod excursions are due to "hooking" the front tire in the berm and then if they haven't been pitched left or right immediately, trying to get out of this jam by braking. As the saying goes, AMF. Last winter saw a classic. Old couple in a Prius at Yosemite. They had chains on the front (good). But they were running a little too slow so passed them. Coming back down there's a slow down and flashing lights. It's the Prius in the ditch on his right. Simply hooked it in and wasn't able to drive it out, or didn't try. With chains no less!!

 

Years back (isn't it always that way for me), I had a 240Z that I drove regularly winter or summer and to the hills to ski. For winter driving I equipped it with studs front and rear and felt pretty secure in the mountains. (As an aside, studs made the handing shitty as hell on wet or dry). One time coming back down I was preoccupied and drifted into the berm on the right. Was damn scary, but applied power and a little left wheel and was able to drive it out. The guardrail was headed my way!

 

TOG

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That's the thing a lot of the kids today (and some adults both young & older) just won't absorb regarding shit like texting on the road.... even if they aren't involved primarily in an accident, the ability to react to and possibly mitigate further involvement is forfeited.

 

I'd never been in California as an adult prior to last summer. I never understood why people raise a stink about cell phones, or texting while driving until I was out there. Holy mother of god, shit is happening out there. Six lanes, bumper to bumper, and 80mph. I wasn't a fan of blinking.

 

Here? You could probably hand me a cell phone, a twelve pack, and a blind fold, and I still won't hit anything.

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I run that style of camera set up. Records on a 45 minute loop. Video gets saved if I tell it to, or if an inertial switch gets tripped (collision). The $200 I spent paid for itself...

 

Make, model?

 

Tnx.

Mine's an older generation model that's pretty similar to this one. The GPS function was only available on the high end model when I bought mine from these guys, so I don't have that. I also went the route of hard wiring it to the fuse box.

 

Considering the cost of a lawsuit or even the premium hikes if you're found at fault for an accident, it makes for a cheap way to cover your ass. (not to mention the YouTube footage you come up with)

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I could see that. My last one was this guy on a motorcycle trying, unbeknownst to me, to pass on the shoulder at speed while I turned my car + boat in tow into a driveway. He hit the C-pillar, spilled, and got pinned by the trailer by the time I rolled to a stop. Guy got a nice helicopter ride out of it.

 

A side view cam would have been interesting. Fucker totaled a 4 y/o car. Kind of why I don't mind sharing films like this one once in a while.

 

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Considering the cost of a lawsuit or even the premium hikes if you're found at fault for an accident, it makes for a cheap way to cover your ass. (not to mention the YouTube footage you come up with)

 

This was in the news not too long ago. Turns out there were _allegedly_ a bunch of auto body shops and a couple of lawyers in on it.

 

Backing up on highway to initiate a collision.

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I could see that. My last one was this guy on a motorcycle trying, unbeknownst to me, to pass on the shoulder at speed while I turned my car + boat in tow into a driveway. He hit the C-pillar, spilled, and got pinned by the trailer by the time I rolled to a stop. Guy got a nice helicopter ride out of it.

 

A side view cam would have been interesting. Fucker totaled a 4 y/o car. Kind of why I don't mind sharing films like this one once in a while.

 

Holy car wreck montage! Crazy how fucked things can be. Some drunk driver spun out and crashed the telephone pole out in front of my house one night. The pole hit the driver side passenger car and folded the car in two. He walked away (appropriately in handcuffs). If he hit the pole 3ft fwd of that, he would have left is face on that pole.

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Some real but some taken form the Australian road safety campaign in Victoria. Very graphic ads but the one of the girl texting and driving then killing her friend does hit home

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There are some actual traffic camera shots (seen in other YouTube postings), some video that looks as if it could be raw news tapes or departmental footage (?), and bits from public service announcements such as mentioned above, and this one.

 

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