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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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~Stingray~

ORACLE Racing

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fresh,

--

http://www.marinij.com/sports/ci_20209664/sailing-marin-oracles-tactician-kostecki-perfect-position-2013

 

Sailing in Marin: As Oracle's tactician, Kostecki in perfect position for 2013 America's Cup

 

By Michelle Slade

IJ correspondent

 

Posted:   03/19/2012 06:39:43 PM PDT

 

[Click photo to enlarge]

 

Oracle Racing team tactician John Kostecki (standing) works with his teammates during the...

 

 

YOU HAVE to be loving life when on-the-job-training requires spending time in the warmth of the southern hemisphere summer, whipping up a wake aboard A Class catamarans on a lake much bigger than San Francisco Bay.

 

Such has become the routine of lifelong Marin resident John Kostecki, tactician with America's Cup defender Oracle Racing. With the switch to the fast AC45 catamarans for the next Cup on the bay in 2013, the more "mature" sailors like Kostecki who have clocked endless hours on mono-hulls need to hone their multi-hull skills, especially as there's a limit to the number of training days teams are permitted on the new cats.

 

The A Class 2012 Australian Championship held on Australia's Lake Macquarie in January was such an opportunity. A number of Cup sailors raced in the 18-foot development class competition and Kostecki says it was tough, especially racing against some of the hottest skiff sailors in the world.

 

"Racing against great sailors like Nathan Outteridge — world 49er champion — and the other younger guys makes you work harder trying to achieve another level," said Kostecki, who grew up in San Rafael and owns a home in Fairfax.

 

contd

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new at AC.com, OR section

--

http://www.americascup.com/en/Teams/ORACLE-Racing/Latest/News/2012/03-Mar/A-venture-beyond-boatbuilding/

 

A venture beyond boatbuilding

POSTED ON 19 MARCH 2012

 

When Tim Smyth (lead picture) tells of the hiring process for the operator of the new CMS Poseidon five-axis milling machine at Core Builders Composites, he gives the sense that he’s a grizzled grandfather befuddled by modern technology before enthusing about the possibilities at hand.

 

“These new machines that we have, they’re operated remotely by a person sitting in his office looking at a computer screen. These chaps tend to be young, and are obviously far more familiar with computers than people my age. They are very much the new breed, and the way they build things is utilizing this technology. It’s exciting, I feel very much like we’re on cusp of new way of doing things,” says Smyth.

 

Don’t be deceived. Smyth, 53, has joined with Mark Turner, 51, to lead ORACLE Racing’s boatbuilding team over the past 11 years. They’ve built four America’s Cup Class sloops, along with countless keel struts and rudders. Their masterstroke was the 90ft trimaran USA 17 and the towering, 223ft wingsail that won the 33rd America’s Cup in 2010.

 

Smyth and Turner have been consistent pioneers in the creation of high-performance composite structures, constantly advancing the game in terms of manufacturing methods, materials, quality, accuracy and reliability.

 

Not for nothing is Smyth’s nickname “The Professor.”

 

Smyth is also the director of the team’s boatbuilding arm, Core Builders Composites in Warkworth, New Zealand, leading the 50 employees on the floor who are creating the many pieces needed for the team’s new AC72 class yacht.

 

Core Builders Composites opened at its current site about an hour north of Auckland in July 2010, having previously operated for seven years in Anacortes, Wash., and immediately went into overdrive.

 

Smyth anticipated a nice, slow buildup towards the beginning of construction for the AC72, but then the AC45 came along and lit everyone’s hair on fire. The prototype was built as it was being designed, all in the span of four months, and then 14 orders were placed.

 

“The past two years have been like a blur,” Smyth says. “From arriving here and anticipating a nice slow, measured buildup to create the facility required for the AC72, a small group of people blending, moving towards the bigger team which we now have, in reality that had to happen double quick. We opened in July 2010 and by September we had 50 people because we were busy building the 45’s. Last year was very busy for us building those 14 boats.

contd

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If you Google it you can see 'Team USA' used from since quite a long way back, even during AC33 for OR. But yes, it's getting more prominence now, think this logo is new.

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What if there is more than one Yacht Club competing in the LV (or Defender) series? Country team 1? Country Team 2?

 

Don't know if I understand your question correctly.

 

More than one YC in a defender series: impossible, as there is only one defender (the team is not the defender, the YC is).

More than one YC of one country in the LVC: has happened before, no issue. Call the syndicates/teams what you want. "Aleph" or "Alinghi" also do not incorporate the nationality of the YC.

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What if there is more than one Yacht Club competing in the LV (or Defender) series? Country team 1? Country Team 2?

Don't know if I understand your question correctly.

More than one YC in a defender series: impossible, as there is only one defender (the team is not the defender, the YC is).

More than one YC of one country in the LVC: has happened before, no issue. Call the syndicates/teams what you want. "Aleph" or "Alinghi" also do not incorporate the nationality of the YC.

 

Ok, more coffee. When NYYC held the cup, and they held defender series, were all the "syndicates" NYYC members? I'm a little fuzzy but I thought they were different clubs in the defenders series participating to represent NYYC as the defender? Thats what I meant.

 

Also a little confused with the time when the cup was down under with multiple US Clubs as challengers

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If you Google it you can see 'Team USA' used from since quite a long way back, even during AC33 for OR. But yes, it's getting more prominence now, think this logo is new.

 

I certainly remember the goose bump video of LE describing the realization that we were the "USA team" a couple of years ago.

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If you Google it you can see 'Team USA' used from since quite a long way back, even during AC33 for OR. But yes, it's getting more prominence now, think this logo is new.

 

I certainly remember the goose bump video of LE describing the realization that "we were the USA team" a couple of years ago.

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What if there is more than one Yacht Club competing in the LV (or Defender) series? Country team 1? Country Team 2?

Don't know if I understand your question correctly.

More than one YC in a defender series: impossible, as there is only one defender (the team is not the defender, the YC is).

More than one YC of one country in the LVC: has happened before, no issue. Call the syndicates/teams what you want. "Aleph" or "Alinghi" also do not incorporate the nationality of the YC.

 

Ok, more coffee. When NYYC held the cup, and they held defender series, were all the "syndicates" NYYC members? I'm a little fuzzy but I thought they were different clubs in the defenders series participating to represent NYYC as the defender? Thats what I meant.

 

Also a little confused with the time when the cup was down under with multiple US Clubs as challengers

1- I think (but HHN92 may prove me wrong) that they were all NYYC syndicates, the yacht owners were members, the skippers not necessarily. In fact it does not really matter even if they were backed by other YCs, as in the end the defending boat had to represent NYYC.

 

2-Yes, more than one challenging team (actually challenging YC) from one country. What is your worry with that?

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What if there is more than one Yacht Club competing in the LV (or Defender) series? Country team 1? Country Team 2?

Don't know if I understand your question correctly.

More than one YC in a defender series: impossible, as there is only one defender (the team is not the defender, the YC is).

More than one YC of one country in the LVC: has happened before, no issue. Call the syndicates/teams what you want. "Aleph" or "Alinghi" also do not incorporate the nationality of the YC.

 

Ok, more coffee. When NYYC held the cup, and they held defender series, were all the "syndicates" NYYC members? I'm a little fuzzy but I thought they were different clubs in the defenders series participating to represent NYYC as the defender? Thats what I meant.

 

Also a little confused with the time when the cup was down under with multiple US Clubs as challengers

1- I think (but HHN92 may prove me wrong) that they were all NYYC syndicates, the yacht owners were members, the skippers not necessarily. In fact it does not really matter even if they were backed by other YCs, as in the end the defending boat had to represent NYYC.

 

2-Yes, more than one challenging team (actually challenging YC) from one country. What is your worry with that?

 

1-What about Ted Turner? When he was in the defender series for NYYC, was he a member of NYYC?

 

2- I have no problem with more than 1 YC / per country- that was my original point ^

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What about Ted Turner?

Yes, what about him? What is the question?

I have no problem with more than 1 YC / per country- that was my original point ^

O.k., then you are right, perfectly possible in the CSS.

 

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What about Ted Turner?

Yes, what about him? What is the question?

I have no problem with more than 1 YC / per country- that was my original point ^

O.k., then you are right, perfectly possible in the CSS.

 

clarifying edits in original ^ ^

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1-What about Ted Turner? When he was in the defender series for NYYC, was he a member of NYYC?

 

2- I have no problem with more than 1 YC / per country- that was my original point ^

Better for a blonde like me wink.gif.

 

IIRC Ted was not member of the NNYC, or did he become a member for the AC? Where is HHN92 when you need him?

Anyway, the DoG does not say that an owner, skipper, crew, syndicate head etc. have to be member of any club. The only requirement is that the one (!) callenging YC must be foreign to the one (!) defending YC.

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AC72 wing on 17?

Must be the 45's heading out to the city front

---

 

America's Cup@americascup @ORACLERacing

Perfect 10! Must be a present from weather gods for @DarrenBundock's birthday! In reply to ORACLE Racing ORACLE Racing@ORACLERacing

Any one working in the city up high - start thinking of an excuse to spend time near the windows. [/url]

 

ORACLE Racing@ORACLERacing

If this weather is a dream - don't pinch me - I don't want to wake up - SF turning it on http://pic.twitter.com/Ez0RnLnW View photo

 

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1-What about Ted Turner? When he was in the defender series for NYYC, was he a member of NYYC?

 

2- I have no problem with more than 1 YC / per country- that was my original point ^

Better for a blonde like me wink.gif.

 

IIRC Ted was not member of the NNYC, or did he become a member for the AC? Where is HHN92 when you need him?

Anyway, the DoG does not say that an owner, skipper, crew, syndicate head etc. have to be member of any club. The only requirement is that the one (!) callenging YC must be foreign to the one (!) defending YC.

 

I am not sure of the process but I do know DC stated that he and Malin were 'members in good standing' when he was looking to challenge in 1984, before being rebuffed and setting-off on his own with SDYC (of which he was commodore at the time). They felt their first loyalties were owed to NYYC since they were the defender that lost the Cup. So, I believe that while not a member when first being a defense candidate, they may have been accepted for membership once chosen to defend. Other than DC's comment I have no other knowledge of how this was handled.

 

From Wikipedia, funny DC's name is spelled wrong:

 

Notable members

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What if there is more than one Yacht Club competing in the LV (or Defender) series? Country team 1? Country Team 2?

Don't know if I understand your question correctly.

More than one YC in a defender series: impossible, as there is only one defender (the team is not the defender, the YC is).

More than one YC of one country in the LVC: has happened before, no issue. Call the syndicates/teams what you want. "Aleph" or "Alinghi" also do not incorporate the nationality of the YC.

 

Ok, more coffee. When NYYC held the cup, and they held defender series, were all the "syndicates" NYYC members? I'm a little fuzzy but I thought they were different clubs in the defenders series participating to represent NYYC as the defender? Thats what I meant.

 

Also a little confused with the time when the cup was down under with multiple US Clubs as challengers

1- I think (but HHN92 may prove me wrong) that they were all NYYC syndicates, the yacht owners were members, the skippers not necessarily. In fact it does not really matter even if they were backed by other YCs, as in the end the defending boat had to represent NYYC.

 

2-Yes, more than one challenging team (actually challenging YC) from one country. What is your worry with that?

 

Back in the 1880-90's the Boston Yacht Club sent a boat or two down to race in the defender trials. IIRC Puritan or Priscilla were Boston boats, maybe one or two others. I think Clinton Crane or Edward Burgess were the designers involved. Have to check my old book to be sure.

 

From Wiki - Edward Burgess:

 

"Several of his boats won fame in the waters of the eastern United States, and when, in 1884, it became necessary to build a large sloop yacht to represent the United States in a series of international races, he was selected by a committee of Bostonians to draw plans for a suitable vessel. From his designs the Puritan was built, which easily defeated the Genesta (English) in the races for the America's Cup in 1885. This was a remarkable triumph in view of the fact that it was the first attempt of an American designer to solve certain shipbuilding problems to which Englishmen had given their attention for a score of years.

 

In 1886, his Mayflower, slightly larger than the Puritan, led in the race with the English Galatea."

 

No info on Crane.

 

edit: interesting quote attributed to Crane:

 

Yacht designer Clinton Hoadley Crane noted in his memoires that "America's Cup racing has never led to good sportsmanship. The attitude of the New York Yacht Club [...] has been more that of a man in the forward position at war who has been ordered to hold his position at all costs – at all costs."

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TeamUSAlogo.jpg

All fixed, mates.

Remember the pure AC tradition:

 

I'm a traditionalist. My favorite piece of AC tradition: the 12th AC.

Reliance_Crossing_Finish_Line.jpg

Reliance finishing

 

RELIANCE: largest yacht built for America's Cup competition

Length of Hull: 149'

LWL: 89' 6"

LOA: 201' 9" (from end of bowsprit to end of main boom. BTW, main boom was 115' long)

Topmast height: 218' (USA17 wing 223')

Sail area: 16,160 sq ft

Mainsheet: 800' tapered 4" diameter manila rope

Rigging: 3.9 miles (about the length of a leg in AC32)

Bulb keel: 102 tons

Crew: 64 (58 Scandinavian fishermen + 6 afterguard), including N.G. Herreshoff & Charlie Barr, helm

 

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A properly designed AC72 wing would collapse as soon as a gust hit if it was rigged on USA17. You might as well just step it on a concrete foundation outside the workshop.

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Good porn in the video at this link!

 

(yes, the headline is misleading but still..)

--

 

 

Oracle looks to Warkworth for hull manufacture

Published: 7:58PM Thursday March 22, 2012 Source: ONE News

 

 

Most of the giant catamaran billionaire Larry Ellison will use to defend the America's Cup next year is being built in Warkworth north of Auckland.

 

Ellison's Oracle Racing will defend the Cup in San Francisco but all but two hulls of his catamaran are being built not in the United States but in Warkworth.

 

The final piece of the manufacturing jigsaw was unveiled today.

 

 

And as ribbon-cutting ceremonies go, it was unique - Oracle Racing Chief Executive Sir Russell Coutts hitting the switch on a $1 million milling machine which can produce composite components for America's Cup yachts, accurate to 0.2 of a millimetre - and hot-knife its way through a ribbon.

 

The ability of the company, Core Builders Composites, is already well proved and the 15 AC-45 carbon-fibre wing-sailed catamarans currently contesting the America's Cup World Series were built here.

 

Their success and durability sees the technology applied in hugely varied fields, says Tim Smyth, manager of Core Builders Composites.

 

"There's the energy industry - all those big blades that spin round a wind turbine. We've made disco balls. We've made mig fighter plane replicas," Smyth said.

 

"We've got a tremendous knowledge when it comes to hands-on composite manufacturing and it's just a question of leveraging that and getting into the big more expensive, one-off, custom produced items."

 

 

This includes the wings and appendages for Oracle's AC72 catamaran, with the components to be shipped to San Francisco and attached to the hulls for the launch in July. It is all good news for Core Builders Composites' 80-strong workforce.

 

Coutts said there is no question New Zealand has a highly skilled labour force in this field.

 

"That's why you would build a facility here as opposed to the east for example."

 

ONE News was given a full tour of the facility within certain restrictions - a reminder that this is the America's Cup with still plenty of secrets to remain covered up.

 

--

 

 

 

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Good porn in the video at this link!

 

(yes, the headline is misleading but still..)

--

 

 

Oracle looks to Warkworth for hull manufacture

Published: 7:58PM Thursday March 22, 2012 Source: ONE News

 

 

Most of the giant catamaran billionaire Larry Ellison will use to defend the America's Cup next year is being built in Warkworth north of Auckland.

 

 

Tim Smyth is an impressive bloke and this is all good for Warkworth.

 

It was clear they have a big job on because my filmy mates (also working in Warkworth) keep running into Core blokes on their lunch break!

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Someone mentioned AC local outreach in another thread, and as OR is here and this is the thread, thought I'd mention the following:

 

 

Last night two racing members of OR visited the SFYC (in Tiburon) and the club invited their Junior sailors to attend. Joey and Kyle arrived later than expected by rib (fog prevented reasonable navigation) so the kids ran to the dock to greet and raze them. The grownups stayed near the club and the OR camera guys went on down to the dock too and captured it all. The kids rallied, jumped and cheered and for a moment chanted "Team USA" which I'm sure was captured on film and expect we'll see later today.

After some hand shaking and the rib was properly tied up, they came on in and took questions from the kids and grown up kids about the boats, the racing, Artemis' test sail, and lots more. Then threw out Oracle hats to the kids at the end and signed autographs as they were swarmed by the enthusiastic junior sailors. It was all in all a great evening and it's the kind of outreach that lasts a lot longer than a couple hours in these kids (and their parents) minds.

 

For those in SF, the ACEA and OR will work with almost any organization to come out and talk. We've had Stan Honey, TE, and now these team members come to the club just since last September.

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Someone mentioned AC local outreach in another thread, and as OR is here and this is the thread, thought I'd mention the following:

 

 

Last night two racing members of OR visited the SFYC (in Tiburon) and the club invited their Junior sailors to attend. Joey and Kyle arrived later than expected by rib (fog prevented reasonable navigation) so the kids ran to the dock to greet and raze them. The grownups stayed near the club and the OR camera guys went on down to the dock too and captured it all. The kids rallied, jumped and cheered and for a moment chanted "Team USA" which I'm sure was captured on film and expect we'll see later today.

After some hand shaking and the rib was properly tied up, they came on in and took questions from the kids and grown up kids about the boats, the racing, Artemis' test sail, and lots more. Then threw out Oracle hats to the kids at the end and signed autographs as they were swarmed by the enthusiastic junior sailors. It was all in all a great evening and it's the kind of outreach that lasts a lot longer than a couple hours in these kids (and their parents) minds.

 

For those in SF, the ACEA and OR will work with almost any organization to come out and talk. We've had Stan Honey, TE, and now these team members come to the club just since last September.

 

LOL.

Good for them, a little damage control after that CF at EYC.

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Two different entities and planned since the Hi-Dive event on 14 Feb, but yes the press they create from this and similar will be good.

 

Oh and our own member, John Craig joined Stan in the fall. Shame on me for omitting him in the post above!

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The best view so far of the strange wing bottom

 

546912_346931825343870_166891610014560_917506_116730205_n.jpg

 

Yep, I've been noticing that also. Not sure if its an aero mod or a shroud to hide something.

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Not a boat building expert by any means, so how do you fix that? Cut out the crunched part and replace it, or replace the whole friggin hull?

 

WetHog :ph34r:

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Not a boat building expert by any means, so how do you fix that? Cut out the crunched part and replace it, or replace the whole friggin hull?

 

WetHog :ph34r:

 

I am surprised it oil canned like that, I would have expected it to shatter or slice. I wonder if there is some secret sauce applied to keep it together in case of a collision like today.

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I wonder if there are claims to 'Team USA' - anyone know?

 

 

Interesting question. I suspect that US Sailing has rights/authority to that name (in sailing) as the national governing body.

 

It's bad branding in any case for OR, because its just 'phony marketing' and not really backed up by fact (eg with American sailors, or even with an American built boat).

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LE (the guy w the consummate All-American story) is pushing the name for his team, is why I ask.

 

'Team USA' may be USOC protected but the phrase in combo w other qualifiers appears to be wide open if you Google it.

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LE (the guy w the consummate All-American story) is pushing the name for his team, is why I ask.

 

'Team USA' may be USOC protected but the phrase in combo w other qualifiers appears to be wide open if you Google it.

 

 

oracle racing ..and all that jizz....

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^ My guess is the team name will change, to Oracle Tream USA. In time for Naples even.

 

Oracle Aotearoa

 

Usually when you 'guess' something it's come straight from te...

 

Is 'tream' the latest word for jizz?....

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I wonder if there are claims to 'Team USA' - anyone know?

 

 

Interesting question. I suspect that US Sailing has rights/authority to that name (in sailing) as the national governing body.

 

It's bad branding in any case for OR, because its just 'phony marketing' and not really backed up by fact (eg with American sailors, or even with an American built boat).

 

Is Peyton Manning from Denver? But he's now suddenly a Bronco. How many pro athletes are from from the town they play for? How many owners of a team don't live in the city of the team they own? How many players in the NHL or MLB are from countries other than USA. How many years did a German driver (M. Schumacher) dominate F1 while with an Italian (Ferrari) team?

 

As much as I'd like to see more sailors from the USA on a team from the USA, that's just not the reality of the world any longer.

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I wonder if there are claims to 'Team USA' - anyone know?

 

 

Interesting question. I suspect that US Sailing has rights/authority to that name (in sailing) as the national governing body.

 

It's bad branding in any case for OR, because its just 'phony marketing' and not really backed up by fact (eg with American sailors, or even with an American built boat).

 

Is Peyton Manning from Denver? But he's now suddenly a Bronco. How many pro athletes are from from the town they play for? How many owners of a team don't live in the city of the team they own? How many players in the NHL or MLB are from countries other than USA. How many years did a German driver (M. Schumacher) dominate F1 while with an Italian (Ferrari) team?

 

As much as I'd like to see more sailors from the USA on a team from the USA, that's just not the reality of the world any longer.

And hasn't been for some time now.

 

The simple fact is the US is the defender, not the nationality of the crew that race her.

 

 

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Yachting: Coutts calls for new clause in America's Cup

 

 

 

Russell Coutts - the man who infamously defected from Team New Zealand to Alinghi in 2000 - is calling for the America's Cup to have a nationality component among the crews.

 

He says sailing would develop further if teams had to pick crew from their own country.

 

Coutts, who is chief executive of the Larry Ellison-bankrolled Oracle Racing team in the United States, revealed that he lobbied heavily for a nationality clause when the rules for the Auld Mug were rejigged in 2010.

 

As it stands, there are no crew regulations in the world's oldest active sporting trophy, although the boat must be built in the country it represents - where materials allow.

 

"If I was doing it again, I'd have the nationality rule, absolutely," Coutts says. "I tried to push it in this time. At least I think I was gunning for 50 per cent. Then I said, 'No, no, maybe we'll do 20 per cent.' After talking to the teams, the teams didn't really want it. It was going to make it too hard for teams such as China and Korea.

 

"Don't forget we've got to build the boats. That's always a fundamental rule in America's Cup, and if you go back to the history of it, the early days, the sailors on board actually weren't from the nation.

 

It was the boat that was from the nation.

 

"Personally, I think it'd be a better event if you had a nationality component in the crews. But all of the teams, I think except Team New Zealand, voted against it. I think it'd be better because it'd give fans more to engage with, which I think would be good, and I also think it'd be better for the development of sailing. If we were forced to use Americans, we would be forced to develop those sailors."

 

It's difficult to fault Coutts' logic, especially as he's the most successful skipper in the history of the event with four wins.

 

During a chat at Oracle's team base in San Francisco, it's easy to see Coutts is still passionate about a trophy that has made him one of New Zealand's wealthiest athletes.

 

Some reports put his earnings at US$11 million ($13.4 million) with Oracle but, most importantly, he doesn't want to see the event die out.

 

It's a long way from his days as a youngster in Upper Hutt when his father built his first boats in their garage.

 

He recently turned 50 and he is remarkably in touch with what makes professional sport popular with a fickle public now spoilt for viewing choice.

 

Coutts agrees the event's reputation took a major hit with the nasty legal battles between Swiss team Alinghi and Oracle over the 2010 cup. "It's hurt it a lot. It's something that I think should've and could've been avoided. But it happened, we've just got to get over it and move on."

 

He said the new AC72 catamarans racing would be good for the America's Cup and popular with sailors, fans and broadcasters.

 

"Absolutely, I think it will and a lot of these changes that we've made will help things a lot. It's probably going to take a period of time before people see the new America's Cup for what it is. But I can tell you now, by 2013, by the end of the cup, it's going to see a dramatic transformation.

 

"I think that's one of the keys - we've got to develop a wider audience. Some of the problems with sailing is it's perceived as elitist. We've got that stuffy, yacht-club mentality that's still there and I, frankly, think this new product, this new style of event, is breaking down those barriers."

 

Alinghi have confirmed they won't line up next year to be part of the challenger series to earn the right to meet Oracle for a shot at the trophy.

 

Just three teams have officially signed on to compete in the Louis Vuitton Cup - Team New Zealand, Luna Rossa of Italy, and Swedish team Artemis.

 

Daniel Richardson travelled to San Francisco courtesy of Air New Zealand and Visit California.

 

 

 

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As much as I'd like to see more sailors from the USA on a team from the USA, that's just not the reality of the world any longer.

 

What "reality" would that be?

The world according to who?

 

"Reality" is mostly constructed (and normalized) by people with power.

 

As a citizen, your job is to oppose other people notions of "reality."

 

So, put down the remote and go out and do something.

 

To build a better world.

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Kostecki Expects Naples to be 'Hot'

http://www.americasc...ples-to-be-hot/

 

 

Interesting how military and "battle" metaphors show up in US sports writing.

 

Just a normal part of the culture!

Gulp!

 

The author mentions battle once or twice. What's the big deal? How do Kiwi journo's describe rugby? Please lay off the race baiting style trolling please. It's getting old.

 

WetHog

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Kostecki Expects Naples to be 'Hot'

http://www.americasc...ples-to-be-hot/

 

 

Interesting how military and "battle" metaphors show up in US sports writing.

 

Just a normal part of the culture!

Gulp!

 

TK, maybe George Carlin can help you here....................................

 

 

 

Baseball_VS_Football

 

 

Maybe you are a 'baseball' kind of guy and others are more like 'football'. (American NFL style, that is)

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Frank Cammas will join Oracle.

 

 

"... I will join Oracle Racing campaign for their defense of the America's Cup. The Volvo will be suspended during this period. And I think it's the perfect time to come on the America's Cup. Americans are waiting for me in San Francisco in August for the World Series stage of AC.

 

Adonnante.com : What will your role within the Defender?

 

FC: The team is already done. I can not come and take the place of someone. James Spithill AUS, which is the helmsman of record, is a talented racer. He is young. He has an experience of match racing. He learned the multihull in a jiffy. It's amazing this adaptability. I'll have an internal consultant role and probably second helmsman. The Americans will have two multihulls. I will share the helm of the second boat with Ben Ainslie"

 

http://www.adonnante...pe-de-lamerica/

 

An April 1 joke or a good one?

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What about Murray Jones?:

 

http://www.americascup.com/en/Teams/ORACLE-Racing/Latest/News/2012/04-Apr/ORACLE-Racing-presents-crews-for-ACWS-Naples/

 

Excerpts:

 

.....

 

Spithill will race with his regular crew of John Kostecki (tactician), Dirk de Ridder (wingsail trimmer), Joe Newton (headsail trimmer) and Piet van Nieuwenhuyjzen (bow).

 

.....

 

Bundock debuted at the helm of an AC45 at ACWS San Diego last November. His crew in Naples is a mix of newcomers and veterans: Tom Slingsby (tactics), Kyle Langford (wingsail trimmer), Simon Daubney (headsails) and Simeon Tienpont (bow).

 

....

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Frank Cammas will join Oracle.

 

 

"... I will join Oracle Racing campaign for their defense of the America's Cup. The Volvo will be suspended during this period. And I think it's the perfect time to come on the America's Cup. Americans are waiting for me in San Francisco in August for the World Series stage of AC.

 

Adonnante.com : What will your role within the Defender?

 

FC: The team is already done. I can not come and take the place of someone. James Spithill AUS, which is the helmsman of record, is a talented racer. He is young. He has an experience of match racing. He learned the multihull in a jiffy. It's amazing this adaptability. I'll have an internal consultant role and probably second helmsman. The Americans will have two multihulls. I will share the helm of the second boat with Ben Ainslie"

 

http://www.adonnante...pe-de-lamerica/

 

An April 1 joke or a good one?

 

 

It looks like it is probably legitimate. Certainly seems within the practice of Ellison/Coutts to bring Cammas in, particularly since Frank has already been with them and would seem to have a lot to add, for boat management, if nothing else, particularly in the 72s in SFO. Hell, they could slap a wing on Groupamma 3 for training.

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Frank Cammas will join Oracle.

 

 

"... I will join Oracle Racing campaign for their defense of the America's Cup. The Volvo will be suspended during this period. And I think it's the perfect time to come on the America's Cup. Americans are waiting for me in San Francisco in August for the World Series stage of AC.

 

Adonnante.com : What will your role within the Defender?

 

FC: The team is already done. I can not come and take the place of someone. James Spithill AUS, which is the helmsman of record, is a talented racer. He is young. He has an experience of match racing. He learned the multihull in a jiffy. It's amazing this adaptability. I'll have an internal consultant role and probably second helmsman. The Americans will have two multihulls. I will share the helm of the second boat with Ben Ainslie"

 

http://www.adonnante...pe-de-lamerica/

 

An April 1 joke or a good one?

 

 

It looks like it is probably legitimate. Certainly seems within the practice of Ellison/Coutts to bring Cammas in, particularly since Frank has already been with them and would seem to have a lot to add, for boat management, if nothing else, particularly in the 72s in SFO. Hell, they could slap a wing on Groupamma 3 for training.

Cammas trained BOR team in Lorient to multi sailing for the AC33.

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Frank Cammas will join Oracle.

 

 

"... I will join Oracle Racing campaign for their defense of the America's Cup. The Volvo will be suspended during this period. And I think it's the perfect time to come on the America's Cup. Americans are waiting for me in San Francisco in August for the World Series stage of AC.

 

Adonnante.com : What will your role within the Defender?

 

FC: The team is already done. I can not come and take the place of someone. James Spithill AUS, which is the helmsman of record, is a talented racer. He is young. He has an experience of match racing. He learned the multihull in a jiffy. It's amazing this adaptability. I'll have an internal consultant role and probably second helmsman. The Americans will have two multihulls. I will share the helm of the second boat with Ben Ainslie"

 

http://www.adonnante...pe-de-lamerica/

 

An April 1 joke or a good one?

 

 

It looks like it is probably legitimate. Certainly seems within the practice of Ellison/Coutts to bring Cammas in, particularly since Frank has already been with them and would seem to have a lot to add, for boat management, if nothing else, particularly in the 72s in SFO. Hell, they could slap a wing on Groupamma 3 for training.

Cammas trained BOR team in Lorient to multi sailing for the AC33.

 

Was posted April 1st fellas....get a grip!

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Yes, posted 1st April, but it not seems a joke. It's too plausible, and the article is still online without modification or warning.

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I was just looking at OR's team page. trying to understand the new team USA - 5 grinders listed - none American - could they really not find any American 'erg power' athletes?? What's the deal - does RC just not like working with Americans?

 

Just for starters these are the USA Bronze medal coxed 8 (a pretty pure erg game) from the 2008 games:

United States (USA)

 

Beau Hoopman

 

Matt Schnobrich

 

Micah Boyd

 

Wyatt Allen

 

Daniel Walsh

 

Steven Coppola

 

Josh Inman

 

Bryan Volpenhein

 

and . . .

96kg wrestling bronze: Adam Wheeler

55kg wrestling gold: Henry Cejudo

 

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I was just looking at OR's team page. trying to understand the new team USA - 5 grinders listed - none American - could they really not find any American 'erg power' athletes?? What's the deal - does RC just not like working with Americans?

 

Just for starters these are the USA Bronze medal coxed 8 (a pretty pure erg game) from the 2008 games:

United States (USA)

 

Beau Hoopman

 

Matt Schnobrich

 

Micah Boyd

 

Wyatt Allen

 

Daniel Walsh

 

Steven Coppola

 

Josh Inman

 

Bryan Volpenhein

 

 

Useless - they'd always be facing the wrong way and wanting to head-in as soon as it gets choppy!

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Useless - they'd always be facing the wrong way and wanting to head-in as soon as it gets choppy!

 

I presume that's a :)

 

Half the grinders will probably be facing the wrong way in any case (unless they are all sideways). And Olympic rowers know about and can live with chop - the AC72 is probably going to be way smooth compared to a shell and rowing team launch. (my father has, I believe, rowed more miles in a single shell than anyone else in history, so I have a little background in the sport)

 

My real point was that it's a big country and it does do sports, and there are certainly some world class power athletes available, who would be delighted to get paying jobs in sports, and it would seem to make sense for 'team USA' to have a preference for them.

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Useless - they'd always be facing the wrong way and wanting to head-in as soon as it gets choppy!

 

I presume that's a :)

 

Half the grinders will probably be facing the wrong way in any case (unless they are all sideways). And Olympic rowers know about and can live with chop - the AC72 is probably going to be way smooth compared to a shell and rowing team launch. (my father has, I believe, rowed more miles in a single shell than anyone else in history, so I have a little background in the sport)

 

My real point was that it's a big country and it does do sports, and there are certainly some world class power athletes available, who would be delighted to get paying jobs in sports, and it would seem to make sense for 'team USA' to have a preference for them.

 

I'm wondering about grinders set up with leg power, which we have seen before. Maybe time for another try at bike grinders.

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I was just looking at OR's team page. trying to understand the new team USA - 5 grinders listed - none American - could they really not find any American 'erg power' athletes?? What's the deal - does RC just not like working with Americans?

 

Just for starters these are the USA Bronze medal coxed 8 (a pretty pure erg game) from the 2008 games:

United States (USA)

 

Beau Hoopman

 

Matt Schnobrich

 

Micah Boyd

 

Wyatt Allen

 

Daniel Walsh

 

Steven Coppola

 

Josh Inman

 

Bryan Volpenhein

 

and . . .

96kg wrestling bronze: Adam Wheeler

55kg wrestling gold: Henry Cejudo

 

You will note that all the listed grinders are sailors with lots of experience. There seems to be this idea that you can take somebody strong from outside of sailing, just put them behind a grinding pedastal and everything is fine. In fact, there is a long history of this failing. Back in the UK, I had a friend who had been an Olympic rower who sailed as a grinder in Freemantle in '87. He was the only one of (I think it was) 6 rowers who made the grade. I also know of at least 4 other world class rowers who tried out or were associated with teams that didn't make the grade. Why didn't they make it? because, contrary to popular belief, you need to fully understand sailing to be a good grinder. Basically, you need to be able to anticipate when the power is needed, because if you wait until it is needed, you are too late. This is particularly true in prestarts and dial-ups. It is this that has caused many to not make the grade.

 

So in a team that is trying to be the very best, using non sailing grinders is a high risk strategy. In a keelboat, the penalty for getting it wrong in training isn't really anything. Getting it wrong in an AC72 could be rather serious. In addition, the crew size for the AC72's is deliberately too small, so all team members need to be able to do more than one role. You really don't want somebody who isn't a top sailor on your AC72.

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I was just looking at OR's team page. trying to understand the new team USA - 5 grinders listed - none American - could they really not find any American 'erg power' athletes?? What's the deal - does RC just not like working with Americans?

 

Just for starters these are the USA Bronze medal coxed 8 (a pretty pure erg game) from the 2008 games:

You will note that all the listed grinders are sailors with lots of experience. There seems to be this idea that you can take somebody strong from outside of sailing, just put them behind a grinding pedastal and everything is fine. In fact, there is a long history of this failing. Back in the UK, I had a friend who had been an Olympic rower who sailed as a grinder in Freemantle in '87. He was the only one of (I think it was) 6 rowers who made the grade. I also know of at least 4 other world class rowers who tried out or were associated with teams that didn't make the grade. Why didn't they make it? because, contrary to popular belief, you need to fully understand sailing to be a good grinder. Basically, you need to be able to anticipate when the power is needed, because if you wait until it is needed, you are too late. This is particularly true in prestarts and dial-ups. It is this that has caused many to not make the grade.

 

So in a team that is trying to be the very best, using non sailing grinders is a high risk strategy. In a keelboat, the penalty for getting it wrong in training isn't really anything. Getting it wrong in an AC72 could be rather serious. In addition, the crew size for the AC72's is deliberately too small, so all team members need to be able to do more than one role. You really don't want somebody who isn't a top sailor on your AC72.

 

As I recall this same argument was advanced by Marian (RIP) with regard to engines, stating any pro athlete can grind and it takes no sailing experience so replace all of them with an engine. That got shot down from all directions for the same reasons. Trimmers make great grinders as they anticipate when to grind.

 

True also on the cross functional nature of all crew on both AC45's and AC72's.

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Basically, you need to be able to anticipate when the power is needed, because if you wait until it is needed, you are too late. This is particularly true in prestarts and dial-ups. It is this that has caused many to not make the grade.

 

Fair point and with 'normal' grinding I agree . . . but do you think that changes if the grinders on these AC72's are pretty much pumping continuously to keep hydraulic pressure up? Do you think that might make it a less 'sailing sensitive' job and more pure erg's?

 

I take your point that in the trade-off between pure ergs vs a bit less ergs but added sailing knowledge, the later has been the winner in the past. But I do also wonder if the different AC72 dynamics, probably much less pre-start, multi (less tacking duels), with the wing, and very short courses, and everything else will be different enough from past mono racing that a rower would have a better chance of coming up to speed equal to a sailor who also has to learn a lot new on these boats - if they had started last year they would have had two years.

 

I know some of the Olympic rowers and they are as bright and as deeply competitive as you could possibly be. Given a chance they would sure study and fight to win the grinder jobs. A bit like you have said about BA, this level of athlete is impressive in all regards. I sure would have given some of them a chance.

You really don't want somebody who isn't a top sailor on your AC72.

 

Just out of curiosity - as I don't know the sailor grinder world well - are there in fact zero top class American sailor/grinders in the whole sailing world? If so, a 'team USA' might want to build a farm program to correct that! It might also want to do what Australia did with Spits and give some young (American) guys at least a "B team" development opportunity. There is not the sort of development money or program in the USA that there is in the UK and NZ and France (different there but still powerful) and a 'team USA' would want to fix that.

 

 

I am all for a bit more national identity, but trying to think how to make it more than just a logo. When they were BMW-OR, and just OR, it did not make much difference - they were a bunch of kiwi mercenaries sailing for the best paying corporate sponsor, but if they want to be 'team USA' it does make a difference and they need to think and act like it is more than a logo.

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First of all, LE is the owner. And as American story as one could imagine. Of ~course~ he will Defend the Cup by bring the best he can find, just as most of the Challengers argued to be allowed to do. RC already said he pressed for 50%, then tried 20%, and it couldn't fly. So be it.

 

Secondly, I (shock) agree w SimonN on this. The ideal is to have both: those who ate sailors ~and~ athletes, it needn't be either/or.

 

GD said recently he's trying to get strong enough to take up a position on the AC72. I admire that at his age but wonder if it's realistic.

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First of all, LE is the owner.

In my (educated) opinion, LE being the owner is not enough to make it "team USA" in the hearts and minds of the American audience. LE is neither very visible nor is he on the boat, and the folks who are very visible and on the boat are mostly very clearly not American. They are not building the boat here. It sounds like they will trial it in Auckland. They have one American on the sailing team. The minute RC or Spits open their mouth's the American audience is going to start asking questions and 'team USA' and they are not going to find any good answers except LE's green backs.

 

Even if you disagree with that, I would think you would agree that it makes sense to do as much as possible and competitive supporting the 'team USA' positioning. I was simply suggesting that the grinders were one area where America has obvious world class athletes, in sports that have proven to be able to adapt well to sailing. It surely would not hurt to seek them out and give them an opportunity if you are 'team USA'.

 

And as American story as one could imagine.

 

Actually, not really. He is certainly American but has adapted that Japanese Samurai personal style and in fact does not come across as 'apple pie', at least to middle and eastern America, unlike say GD or Peyrons who come immediately across as pure kiwi and french. This is a minor point, not really important because he is so invisible.

 

Secondly, I (shock) agree w SimonN on this. The ideal is to have both: those who ate sailors ~and~ athletes, it needn't be either/or.

 

Nowhere did I suggest it was 'either/or'. I was merely suggesting an obvious source of world class American erg athletes who could be brought into sailing, and who might be better athletes. And I think we all agree that even the 'sailors' have a lot to re-learn and learn differently about sailing these things. But I agree it would also make sense to recruit and develop current (young) American sailors. If both RC and GD want stronger nationality rules next time (As do LR and TE), then LE better start building a national team now so he has one for next time!

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I wonder how well American Generation-Y sailors would fit into the demanding high-pressure TEAM environment of an AC team.....might be another consideration.

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oops, phone correction typos, apologies. But:

 

There is a huge amount ahead that is USA, and it's fun, and I hope the promoters do press that button.

 

Bertelli said just yesterday where the Cup will go if LR (with possibly English hired guns at the helm) will go: Sicily. Fair enough, he's Italian.

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First of all, LE is the owner.

In my (educated) opinion, LE being the owner is not enough to make it "team USA" in the hearts and minds of the American audience. LE is neither very visible nor is he on the boat, and the folks who are very visible and on the boat are mostly very clearly not American. They are not building the boat here. It sounds like they will trial it in Auckland. They have one American on the sailing team. The minute RC or Spits open their mouth's the American audience is going to start asking questions and 'team USA' and they are not going to find any good answers except LE's green backs.

 

Even if you disagree with that, I would think you would agree that it makes sense to do as much as possible and competitive supporting the 'team USA' positioning. I was simply suggesting that the grinders were one area where America has obvious world class athletes, in sports that have proven to be able to adapt well to sailing. It surely would not hurt to seek them out and give them an opportunity if you are 'team USA'.

 

And as American story as one could imagine.

 

Actually, not really. He is certainly American but has adapted that Japanese Samurai personal style and in fact does not come across as 'apple pie', at least to middle and eastern America, unlike say GD or Peyrons who come immediately across as pure kiwi and french. This is a minor point, not really important because he is so invisible.

 

Secondly, I (shock) agree w SimonN on this. The ideal is to have both: those who ate sailors ~and~ athletes, it needn't be either/or.

 

Nowhere did I suggest it was 'either/or'. I was merely suggesting an obvious source of world class American erg athletes who could be brought into sailing, and who might be better athletes. And I think we all agree that even the 'sailors' have a lot to re-learn and learn differently about sailing these things. But I agree it would also make sense to recruit and develop current (young) American sailors. If both RC and GD want stronger nationality rules next time (As do LR and TE), then LE better start building a national team now so he has one for next time!

 

I'm glad your so educated, and so willing to suggest ways to come up with an all American team.

 

The facts are that this is yet another irrelevant academic discussion with regard to AC34, and if they had to come up with American grinders with sailing experience for AC35, should nationality rules be implemented, I'm sure they could given an additional three or four years.

 

And BTW, who in the hell is "Spits" ?

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Never quite understood why Spithall is even in the game at this level. No dinghy success, no Olympic participation (never mind a medal) limited match racing but of course the gift of USA17 at the expense of others. As he says there is talent out there and realistically SO much better than he will ever be. Like they say, better to be lucky than good and Jimbo must be the luckiest winning AC skipper EVER..............

 

 

 

First of all, LE is the owner.

In my (educated) opinion, LE being the owner is not enough to make it "team USA" in the hearts and minds of the American audience. LE is neither very visible nor is he on the boat, and the folks who are very visible and on the boat are mostly very clearly not American. They are not building the boat here. It sounds like they will trial it in Auckland. They have one American on the sailing team. The minute RC or Spits open their mouth's the American audience is going to start asking questions and 'team USA' and they are not going to find any good answers except LE's green backs.

 

Even if you disagree with that, I would think you would agree that it makes sense to do as much as possible and competitive supporting the 'team USA' positioning. I was simply suggesting that the grinders were one area where America has obvious world class athletes, in sports that have proven to be able to adapt well to sailing. It surely would not hurt to seek them out and give them an opportunity if you are 'team USA'.

 

And as American story as one could imagine.

 

Actually, not really. He is certainly American but has adapted that Japanese Samurai personal style and in fact does not come across as 'apple pie', at least to middle and eastern America, unlike say GD or Peyrons who come immediately across as pure kiwi and french. This is a minor point, not really important because he is so invisible.

 

Secondly, I (shock) agree w SimonN on this. The ideal is to have both: those who ate sailors ~and~ athletes, it needn't be either/or.

 

Nowhere did I suggest it was 'either/or'. I was merely suggesting an obvious source of world class American erg athletes who could be brought into sailing, and who might be better athletes. And I think we all agree that even the 'sailors' have a lot to re-learn and learn differently about sailing these things. But I agree it would also make sense to recruit and develop current (young) American sailors. If both RC and GD want stronger nationality rules next time (As do LR and TE), then LE better start building a national team now so he has one for next time!

 

I'm glad your so educated, and so willing to suggest ways to come up with an all American team.

 

The facts are that this is yet another irrelevant academic discussion with regard to AC34, and if they had to come up with American grinders with sailing experience for AC35, should nationality rules be implemented, I'm sure they could given an additional three or four years.

 

And BTW, who in the hell is "Spits" ?

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