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      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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perfectten

B&G H2000

37 posts in this topic

Hi fellow sailors,

 

Since we put the boat back in the water, a few weeks ago, we have a problem with the AWA.

When the boatspeed is ZERO, the AWA is correct : the digital display AWA equals the real situation on the Masthead unit (mhu).

 

When we sail, things get crazy.

 

While motoring with boatspeed = 6.0, the AWA in the MHU shows almost 10°, while the FFD (display) shows 60°.

Consequently, the TWA en TWD are not correct when the boat makes speed.

 

I am aware that there is a way of correcting the TWA with the correction table (ordered by windspeed range and upwind/reaching/downwind).

But in the manual this is about finetuning.

Our problem is sometimes 50°.

 

What have we changed since last year ? we have a PC with Seatrack connected via USB to the H2000. We do not think that the Seatrack Program is able to influence the B&G calibration. But I think I should mention it.

 

I have climbed into the mast and checked the masthead unit. Cannot see anything unusual.

There is a MHU angle of 15°, which I have entered into the calibration data of the MHU.

 

I have send an email to B&G; still no response, still waiting.

 

Many thanks in advance for advice, because we already spend hours and hours searching.

 

Peter

Perfect Ten

X-35

GBR1035R

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Is the damping setting under AWA a ridiculous number. Sometimes the numbers change to silly settings on their own. It may working just v e r y s l o w l y

It should be about three secs

 

What about sailing when the engine is off ?

 

Any other functions acting up ?

 

Do you have only FFD's and 20/20's of do you have any analogues ?

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1332463000[/url]' post='3639702']

Is the damping setting under AWA a ridiculous number. Sometimes the numbers change to silly settings on their own. It may working just v e r y s l o w l y

It should be about three secs

 

What about sailing when the engine is off ?

 

Any other functions acting up ?

 

Do you have only FFD's and 20/20's of do you have any analogues ?

 

Thank you for your replies.

 

I have experimented with Changing the damping (both SE and dynamic), put them for awa twa twd heading to small number 8, so quick changes.

We did sail with and without engine, but the awa and twd go bananen when speed is building up.

We have one ffd, 3 x 20/20s and autopilot display.

This evening (in 10 hours for now) i Will copy the twa correction table of another x35's performance table into my system. Hope this will help.I let you know asap.

 

 

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Hi

 

 

Try a different MHU unit, the pcb might be broken.

 

 

 

 

Martin

 

 

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Still no solution. Even with the X-35 TWA correction table.

 

As soon as the boat gets speed, the AWA is not correct.

 

tried everything today while beating. Could not get AWA < 30; and TWA remained > 45, In reality : TWA should have been 38 and AWA 28, even when I sail directly in the wind.

 

so speed affects the AWA in a wrong way.

 

anyone a suggestion ?

 

would be welcome.

 

thank you.

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I am considering a TOTAL RESET tomorrow morning.

 

Do you think this might help ?

 

 

another thing :

 

To use the PC with Seatrack installed, a technician installed a USB cable.

I have NMEA 0183 data on comm 5 and baud 4800.

I hope this is not the problem ...

Although before the USB, everything worked fine.

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I am considering a TOTAL RESET tomorrow morning.

 

Do you think this might help ?

 

 

Absolutely. I have to reset my H2000 about once a year. You can reset just the wind board, which saves you from having to reenter calibration data for other functions (depth, speed, etc.). See the section RES-SYS (sec 6.1.10 in my manual). You want node #5.

 

Afterwards, be sure to re-enter your AWA correction. You may also have to change your "Heading Node Selection" (Sec 3.4.2 in my manual).

 

-tk

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@ Tom

Thank you !I shall reset the wind 05H address and let you know.

Res-sys is 6.1.2 in my manual. Manual code is HB-0845-06. H2000 system bought in mid 2006.

 

 

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DAMNED, it does not work.

Have done reset of WIND and later a total reset (FF).

 

problem remains : as soon as the boat gets speed, the AWA is no longer correct.

 

On one tack I can overcompensate with MHU angle + TWA correction table, but when I tack, the AWA on the other side is much too high (65°)

Furthermore I think the TWA correction table is only for finetuning in a range of +or- 10°, not 30° I suppose....

 

Back in harbour; boatspeed = 0, AWA is correct.

 

Wednesday the technician who installed the USB cable (for PC connection) will come and give advice.

 

The USB cable is the only thing that has been changed. So a possible change in the wiring is candidate for the solution.

 

AWA does not equal Measured WA + MHU Angle °. It seems that B&G recalculates the AWA as soon as we sail.

Is it possible that the Heeling correction is not correct changes the AWA in a wrong way ? Can I calibrate this ?

 

Or is it possible that the technician changed by accident the wiring which has something to do with the AWA/TWA calculation.

Boatspeedvector should be subtracted from the AWA to get the TWA, seems like it happens the other way around....

 

please advice :-(

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Remember that the B&G system uses Measured data (MWA & MWS) to compute True results (TWA & TWS) and from these it deduces Apparent data (AWA & AWS).

 

First you need to check whether your Measured data looks right. If not, focus on your MHU and its wiring and the MHU Offset and MWS calibration.

 

Then you need to to check whether your True results look good. If not, focus on your boat speed, and heading sensor. Is your heading correct at the dock? Selecting the right heading sensor is something that needs to be done frequently as it gets lost easily. Also, all of your upwash calibration information is applied in order to get True results. Problems in those tables are a source of error.

 

If Measured and True data are correct, then Apparent should be correct as well.

 

Good Luck!

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Selecting the right heading sensor is something that needs to be done frequently as it gets lost easily.

 

Hi Moonduster,

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

What do you mean with "gets lost easily" ?

 

We have a Halycon 2000 compass.

Is heading sensor something else ?

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Your B&G system supports half a dozen different sorts of heading sensors. Each has a different Fastnet Node. The system must be told from which node it is to get it's heading data - even if only one heading sensor is fitted, it won't figure this out on its own. Search for Heading Sensor in your documentation's table of contents.

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If I had to put money on it, I would bet on your problem being either a defective 213 PCB in the wand or an issue with the mast cabling either at the connector at each end or in the cable itself.

 

One way to test is to remove the wand from the mast and test it connected to the connector at the bottom of the mast instead.

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K

1332711885[/url]' post='3643138']

Your B&G system supports half a dozen different sorts of heading sensors. Each has a different Fastnet Node. The system must be told from which node it is to get it's heading data - even if only one heading sensor is fitted, it won't figure this out on its own. Search for Heading Sensor in your documentation's table of contents.

 

Heading node = 16 = compass

I dont think we have another sensor. Compass seems to work well.

 

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Have you looked at MWS and MWA at the dock? Do they seem right? How about underway?

 

Thank you.

 

In the dock, the MWS and the MWA do seem right.

There is an offset difference of -15°, which we correct with the MHU Angle calibration.

 

The MWS, TWS and AWS seem also right, although one can never be too sure.

 

What I should check (and I will do that this evening), is whether the MWA shows the same error as the TWA and AWA.

I think this is a good point and could narrow the range of candidate-solutions.

 

I let you know.

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take a look at my data from this evening ?!? :-(

 

 

heading X heading X+180 difference Masthead unit angle 22°

 

AWA

 

 

True WD 103 -74 177 TWA 60 40 20

112 -92 204 Masthead unit angle 32°

 

 

 

 

 

AWA 102 -80 182 True WD 62 45 17 TWA 110 -84 194

 

 

 

Masthead unit angle 40°

 

 

 

 

 

AWA

 

 

True WD 119 -59 178 TWA 78 60 18

126 -69 195 Masthead unit angle 36°

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

AWA 117 -63 180 True WD 78 52 26 TWD 123 -73 196

 

this looks very bad, doesn't it ?

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Made a video : please have a look and comment :

(
)

 

 

Question : is it a miscalibration, or is it a broken MHU ?

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I can't decipher all the numbers you provided. Format them nicely into a table with spaces and enclose them in the "Code Tags", which you can access with the <> symbol when you compose your post.

 

You don't mention if the boat was stationary or moving and you don't provide any Measured data, which really is the first thing to understand.

 

There's no reason to mess with the MHU offset. Just set it to zero and forget it until the AWA problem is understood.

 

Also, have you carefully checked the MHU wiring at the mast junction and the main Processor box?

 

The video is pretty illegible ... I'll watch it on YouTube in full screen mode ...

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The video is pretty illegible ... what's it trying to show?

 

 

Hi,

 

 

 

First part of the video : we are motoring on a TWA of 38-40, and AWA = 28 - 30, which is fine.

 

When we turn through the wind, and keep the same wind angle, AWA goes to 58 an TWA to 67. (this part is not in the video unfortunately; I went too quickly with my movie-editor)

at 30:00 you see the AWA on top of the 20/20's, the TWD in the middle; and the measured WA on the bottom.

Just want to show here that the measured WA = AWA with a MHU angle of 0.

 

 

regards.

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Are you saying that MWA and AWA are always equal when the MHU Offset is 0?

 

If that's true, and the TWA is all messed up, then you really should be checking those wires. If those are good, probably time to replace the PCB in the MHU.

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I am afraid you are right.

 

 

 

Tomorrow we have a technician aboard.

 

 

I will keep you posted.

 

 

Anyhow, many thanks for your help.

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Diagnose of the technician : broken PCB in mhu.Came to this conclusion by excluding all other possiblities.Hope he is right.

this evening i climb into the mast, take the mhu, bring it to the technician.He shall return it to me next wednesday.... :-(

So we are in an absolute depression, Since we have to sail this weekend without instruments. Just our simrad plotter.

I give you an update soon.

 

Greez.

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Are you saying that MWA and AWA are always equal when the MHU Offset is 0?

 

If that's true, and the TWA is all messed up, then you really should be checking those wires. If those are good, probably time to replace the PCB in the MHU.

 

 

Yes, that was always going to be the problem ...

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1333048982[/url]' post='3649480']
1332850663[/url]' post='3645435']

Are you saying that MWA and AWA are always equal when the MHU Offset is 0?

 

If that's true, and the TWA is all messed up, then you really should be checking those wires. If those are good, probably time to replace the PCB in the MHU.

 

 

Yes, that was always going to be the problem ...

 

Do those PCB often need replacement ?

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For a long time, it seems as if the components used were susceptible to ESD or some similar problem. The newer versions are supposed to be more robust. It's not an unusal problem - some boats carry a spare PCB on board. What the fuck did you expect for ten grand of integrated electronics? Reliability! Sheesh ...

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1333091389[/url]' post='3650275']

For a long time, it seems as if the components used were susceptible to ESD or some similar problem. The newer versions are supposed to be more robust. It's not an unusal problem - some boats carry a spare PCB on board. What the fuck did you expect for ten grand of integrated electronics? Reliability! Sheesh ...

 

Relability and peace of mind.Indeed :)

Greez

 

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Hi,

 

On our X-35 we have a vertical MHU.

the AWA & TWA are no longer reliable and correct, so diagnose : PCB broken.

 

Today, I was lifted again in the mast after the technician changed the PCB.

When I connected the cable, there was no windspeed available, and the windangle was 180° wrong.

 

So again with MHU downd and back to the technician.

Also printed an instruction by B&G regarding how to replace the PCB.

I hand it over to the technician and I hope he made a mistake in the connection.

 

Does anyone recognize the symptoms ? so no windspeed and AWA is 180° wrong.

 

regards.

 

Peter

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Hi Perfect Ten,

 

Very sorry to hear about all of your problems and the troubles you're having correcting them. I understand it's sometimes hard to get support in remote areas.

 

When a B&G tech goes to a boat with a problem as you describe, they start from the top down. The good guys usually have a 213 PCB emulator board that they plug into the masthead cable to run a check. If that fails it could be a bad cable or a problem somewhere else on the network. The next step is to bring the wand down and connect it directly to the network, bypassing the masthead cable. If that test fails, you will need to run through the entire network checking for bad connections, failed or missing terminators or any device on the network that could be malfunctioning, If your connections are all good, you will need to remove one device from the network at a time, reboot and test again. If the 213 board is good, all terminators are in place and you can't find a failed device on the network, you have a problem with the PCB in the processor.

 

BTW..It''s not possible to mis-wire a 213 board into the wand, that's a simple plug-and-play connection.

 

Cheers,

Rob

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Having a 180 degrees fault is more or less impossible. The signal comming down from the MHU is a 3 phase DC signal. And if you shift green and blue, you get a mirror fault (port-starboard). Shifting red and any of the others will rotate readings, but not 180 degrees. Though, I have experienced a couple of cases where the female cable terminal strip connecting to the PCB lost some of their springloads. More likely is that the new PCB is working and that someone fiddeld with the settings when trying to get the wind data to work. Set MHU offset to 000 ( AWA ) and AWS calibration to 1.04 hz/kt. Aslo check the damping values.

post-37779-065648500 1333626899_thumb.jpg

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Thank you for your comments.

I arrive home from a 4 hour Car journey to a B&g dealer in Holland.He put in à new PCB and tested the old one in his showroom configuration. Same error like on our mast.So bought à new PCB for à lot of money and tomorrow I shall test it onboard.

I let you know.

I think it Will work.

Regards.

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AND IT WAS THE PCB INDEED !!

 

Today done some testing with the new pcb in the mhu : everything works as before.

 

Many thanks for all your advice.

 

What a pleasure to sail with all instruments working.

 

Regards and thank you again.

 

:rolleyes:

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AND IT WAS THE PCB INDEED !!

 

Today done some testing with the new pcb in the mhu : everything works as before.

 

Many thanks for all your advice.

 

What a pleasure to sail with all instruments working.

 

Regards and thank you again.

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

Pictures of the broken PCB can be found here.

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I think you can actually miswire a 213pcb in the mhu cavity. The birdcage clip can be inserted with the wrong side facing against the board, which will result in the pins being aligned to the wrong sockets on the clip. Metal contact in the clip should be visible when in place, NOT facing the pcb.

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Hi friends,

 

I am getting a B&G-HEADACHE :-(.

 

So we put a new PCB in the MHU. Everything seemed to work fine for one week.

Then we broke a cable to a 20/20 at the mast. The cummingham did the job, while Murphy was chuckling.

result : all systems down.

The B&G specialist has no time to help us. He said that we could try to fix the cable ourselves.

So we attached the right colours with eachother and yes we also attached the overlapping anti-interference netting.

Switched everything on : and NOTHING.

So we searched for a broken fuse. We found in the wiring behind our electrical panel two fuses (small tube fuses), which we replaced.

Now Speed and Depth is OK, also heading.

but ... the data from the MHU was not correct. MWA was wrong. (MWS more difficult to check).

Recalibration did not help.

Also we reset the total system twice, and re-entered the necessary parameters : no result, still no correct wind data.

Today : the data WindSpeed and WindAngle are both 0.00 (!).

Could this be AGAIN the PCB ? The one in the MHU is 1 month old and costed a lot of money.

Is it possible that the PCB breaks due to the cable incident ?

 

We are desperate.

 

anyone ?

 

config : B&G Hydra 2000 and autopilot : 3 x 20/20 and 1 FFD, remote vision, vertical MHU.

 

 

 

 

 

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