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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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Not 1, Not 2, But 3 New Reports Out This Week Link

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"They say bad things come in 3s. You can choose to look at the three new scientific reports out this week as series of bad things--they all underscore the need for the world to take bold, swift and brave action to avoid the worst effects of climate change; or you can choose to view these new studies as three more bricks to use to build a global consensus for action."Clicky for full story and links to the 3 stories.

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"They say bad things come in 3s. You can choose to look at the three new scientific reports out this week as series of bad things--they all underscore the need for the world to take bold, swift and brave action to avoid the worst effects of climate change; or you can choose to view these new studies as three more bricks to use to build a global consensus for action."Clicky for full story and links to the 3 stories.

These sound like offsetting local phenomena.

 

•Groesbeck, TX: The city of Groesbeck almost ran out of water completely in November 2011. The city had to spend $250,000 to pipe water from a quarry to keep the city running.

 

•Memphis, TN: Flooding has caused over $750 million in economic damage to the region.

Groesbeck is a little town about 10 blocks long. If the quarry has standing water in it, it sure looks like the small scale municipal water supply has a problem unrelated to climate change.

 

Memphis is a big city on a river. The good land on the high ground was sold and built on a more than a hundred years ago. People who live lower down have problems every year.

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"They say bad things come in 3s. You can choose to look at the three new scientific reports out this week as series of bad things--they all underscore the need for the world to take bold, swift and brave action to avoid the worst effects of climate change; or you can choose to view these new studies as three more bricks to use to build a global consensus for action."Clicky for full story and links to the 3 stories.

 

August, 1896

 

ScreenHunter_71-Mar.-30-01.01.jpg

 

 

 

September, 1926

 

ScreenHunter_67-Mar.-29-21.34.jpg

 

 

 

May, 1910

ScreenHunter_34-Mar.-28-07.42.jpg

 

 

 

Weather is climate when we say it is.

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"They say bad things come in 3s. You can choose to look at the three new scientific reports out this week as series of bad things--they all underscore the need for the world to take bold, swift and brave action to avoid the worst effects of climate change; or you can choose to view these new studies as three more bricks to use to build a global consensus for action."Clicky for full story and links to the 3 stories.

 

August, 1896

 

ScreenHunter_71-Mar.-30-01.01.jpg

 

 

 

September, 1926

 

ScreenHunter_67-Mar.-29-21.34.jpg

 

 

 

May, 1910

ScreenHunter_34-Mar.-28-07.42.jpg

 

 

 

Weather is climate when we say it is.

Weather is not climate...until it becomes a trend

 

"This January is the coolest of all months on record since February 2008. However, it also marks the 26th January and 323rd consecutive month with a global temperature above the 20th century average. The last month with below average temperatures was February 1985."(State of the Climate

Global Analysis January 2012 National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration National Climatic Data Center)

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Conservatives don't understand trends.

They are too busy trying to being back the good old days that never existed.

 

Basically, they will never - I mean never agree with man-made global warming, no matter what the facts. Their style is to deny until it is too late - then they will make snide comments about folks not supposed to be living on those areas anyway, and how more agriculture is now possible further north.

 

The thing about being "right" is that you are always right, even when you are wrong. This is due to modern conservatism being rooted in selfishness...and selfishness is never wrong, even when it is.

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Conservatives don't understand trends.

They are too busy trying to being back the good old days that never existed.

 

Basically, they will never - I mean never agree with man-made global warming, no matter what the facts. Their style is to deny until it is too late - then they will make snide comments about folks not supposed to be living on those areas anyway, and how more agriculture is now possible further north.

 

The thing about being "right" is that you are always right, even when you are wrong. This is due to modern conservatism being rooted in selfishness...and selfishness is never wrong, even when it is.

I understand that trends reverse. Why not plot hula hoop or pet rock sales and look at the trend there and tell yourself it goes on to infinity. Hey, you could also try house prices adjusted for inflation.

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Hey, you could also try house prices adjusted for inflation.

 

Something my rightie friends told me would never happen...even as it happened. I had one friend who kept claiming (it was a rightie talking point) the foreclosures were under 5% and so it was not a big thing.

 

He kept at it as things got worse......and then just completely disappeared from the forum one day. That's the final solution.......when your world view fall apart completely.

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Conservatives don't understand trends.

They are too busy trying to being back the good old days that never existed.

 

Basically, they will never - I mean never agree with man-made global warming, no matter what the facts. Their style is to deny until it is too late - then they will make snide comments about folks not supposed to be living on those areas anyway, and how more agriculture is now possible further north.

 

The thing about being "right" is that you are always right, even when you are wrong. This is due to modern conservatism being rooted in selfishness...and selfishness is never wrong, even when it is.

The mind boggles.

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The mind boggles.

 

Ok, in that case, which of these things was the right "right" about....

 

1. The economy is sound.

2. Let Wall Street make the rules - they know better how to police themselves.

3. Let Big Oil steer their own ship (BOLM having orgies and cocaine parties as a result).

4. Offshore drilling without more regs is fine.

5. Saddam had WMD

6. Iraq will welcome us with flowers

7. Iraw war will take 6 weeks to 6 months

8. DODT will completely destroy the military

9. Gay Marriage will result in Sodom and Gomorrah.

10. Bush cuts will result in balancing of the budget

11. The Free Market will solve the health care crisis.

12. Neither pollution nor radiation cause cancer.

13. Americans should be able to choose 8MPG SUV's as part of our birthright...

14. Law and Order - lock up all those non-violent drug offenders....

 

I could go on, but those things alone represent virtually all of our societal and economic problems..

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"They say bad things come in 3s. You can choose to look at the three new scientific reports out this week as series of bad things--they all underscore the need for the world to take bold, swift and brave action to avoid the worst effects of climate change; or you can choose to view these new studies as three more bricks to use to build a global consensus for action."Clicky for full story and links to the 3 stories.

 

August, 1896

 

ScreenHunter_71-Mar.-30-01.01.jpg

 

 

 

September, 1926

 

ScreenHunter_67-Mar.-29-21.34.jpg

 

 

 

May, 1910

ScreenHunter_34-Mar.-28-07.42.jpg

 

 

 

Weather is climate when we say it is.

Weather is not climate...until it becomes a trend

 

 

 

And a trend is a trend when we say it is.

 

Screen-Shot-2012-02-25-at-7.32.27-PM.png

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Climate change deniers think of scientific evidence like Neville Chamberlain thought of Hitler before the war.

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Hey, you could also try house prices adjusted for inflation.

 

Something my rightie friends told me would never happen...even as it happened. I had one friend who kept claiming (it was a rightie talking point) the foreclosures were under 5% and so it was not a big thing.

 

He kept at it as things got worse......and then just completely disappeared from the forum one day. That's the final solution.......when your world view fall apart completely.

Something similar happened around here, but we were saved by an influx of new posters around Oct./Nov. 08, to make up the difference.

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Hey, you could also try house prices adjusted for inflation.

 

Something my rightie friends told me would never happen...even as it happened. I had one friend who kept claiming (it was a rightie talking point) the foreclosures were under 5% and so it was not a big thing.

 

He kept at it as things got worse......and then just completely disappeared from the forum one day. That's the final solution.......when your world view fall apart completely.

So, you want to tell me about trends again? I'm surprised you would post something so moronic when you knew it to be ridiculous.

 

Or do they only keep going up in the shit you believe in?

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The mind boggles.

 

Ok, in that case, which of these things was the right "right" about....

 

1. The economy is sound. Not a right wing belief

2. Let Wall Street make the rules - they know better how to police themselves. Not a right wing belief

3. Let Big Oil steer their own ship (BOLM having orgies and cocaine parties as a result). Not a right wing belief

4. Offshore drilling without more regs is fine. Not a right wing belief

5. Saddam had WMD Both a left and right wing belief

6. Iraq will welcome us with flowers Fair point

7. Iraw war will take 6 weeks to 6 months Fair point

8. DODT will completely destroy the military Believed by some on both sides, I don't believe it

9. Gay Marriage will result in Sodom and Gomorrah. More of a religious than a political belief

10. Bush cuts will result in balancing of the budget Not a right wing belief. Tax policy cannot balance our budget

11. The Free Market will solve the health care crisis. Not a right wing belief

12. Neither pollution nor radiation cause cancer. Not a right wing belief

13. Americans should be able to choose 8MPG SUV's as part of our birthright...[ color=#FF0000]So what?elief[/color]

14. Law and Order - lock up all those non-violent drug offenders.... Not a right wing belief

 

 

I could go on, but those things alone represent virtually all of our societal and economic problems..

 

Your problem is that you have no idea what the right is about.

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Your problem is that you have no idea what the right is about.

 

Amazing.....maybe not this week, but virtually ALL of those things were promoted by cons, neo-cons, conservatives and republicans....not to say others did not buy in, but the big pushes came from the right.

 

Maybe you need to look some of them up?

 

Let me start you off in the "right" direction.

 

Reagan was the big law and order guy "War on Drugs" - a complete and utter failure.

GW and Cheney and their friends marched us to war and convinced many about Saddam and 9/11. RIght wing Fox and other such outlets helped.

 

Wall Street Deregulation - Enron Loophole (Ken Lay was staunch Republican and Friend of Bush)......all put forward by Heritage Foundations Wendy Graham (also on the board of Enron) as well as Phil Graham, her husband the senator from TX.

 

Hands off the EPA and Interior under Bush resulted in orgies and drugs between the oil companies and those supposed to be representing We the People.

 

DODT and Gay Marriage was fought against by the right and promoted by the left.

 

That should get you started.......mind you, I don't say all faults are on one party or the other, but the last 15-30 years have brought us plenty of good examples of the right being wrong. For you to deny that is quite fantastic. You may be reasonable, but don't act like "they" are.

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Your problem is that you have no idea what the right is about.

 

Amazing.....maybe not this week, but virtually ALL of those things were promoted by cons, neo-cons, conservatives and republicans....not to say others did not buy in, but the big pushes came from the right.

 

Maybe you need to look some of them up?

 

Let me start you off in the "right" direction.

 

Reagan was the big law and order guy "War on Drugs" - a complete and utter failure.

GW and Cheney and their friends marched us to war and convinced many about Saddam and 9/11. RIght wing Fox and other such outlets helped.

 

Wall Street Deregulation - Enron Loophole (Ken Lay was staunch Republican and Friend of Bush)......all put forward by Heritage Foundations Wendy Graham (also on the board of Enron) as well as Phil Graham, her husband the senator from TX.

 

Hands off the EPA and Interior under Bush resulted in orgies and drugs between the oil companies and those supposed to be representing We the People.

 

DODT and Gay Marriage was fought against by the right and promoted by the left.

 

That should get you started.......mind you, I don't say all faults are on one party or the other, but the last 15-30 years have brought us plenty of good examples of the right being wrong. For you to deny that is quite fantastic. You may be reasonable, but don't act like "they" are.

Politicians on both sides of the aisle have gotten a lot of things wrong. What you’re doing do is taking the most extreme stance offered and applying it across the board. There is not unanimity on either side. The fundamental difference between right and left is that the left considers the collective to be primary, while the right considers the individual primary. Thanks, but I don't need you to tell me what I believe.

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The mind boggles.

 

Ok, in that case, which of these things was the right "right" about....

 

1. The economy is sound. Not a right wing belief

2. Let Wall Street make the rules - they know better how to police themselves. Not a right wing belief

3. Let Big Oil steer their own ship (BOLM having orgies and cocaine parties as a result). Not a right wing belief

4. Offshore drilling without more regs is fine. Not a right wing belief

5. Saddam had WMD Both a left and right wing belief

6. Iraq will welcome us with flowers Fair point

7. Iraw war will take 6 weeks to 6 months Fair point

8. DODT will completely destroy the military Believed by some on both sides, I don't believe it

9. Gay Marriage will result in Sodom and Gomorrah. More of a religious than a political belief

10. Bush cuts will result in balancing of the budget Not a right wing belief. Tax policy cannot balance our budget

11. The Free Market will solve the health care crisis. Not a right wing belief

12. Neither pollution nor radiation cause cancer. Not a right wing belief

13. Americans should be able to choose 8MPG SUV's as part of our birthright...[ color=#FF0000]So what?elief[/color]

14. Law and Order - lock up all those non-violent drug offenders.... Not a right wing belief

 

 

I could go on, but those things alone represent virtually all of our societal and economic problems..

 

Your problem is that you have no idea what the right is about.

 

I'm going to be kind here and suggest that Craigirl's problem goes, well, just a little deeper than that.

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The fundamental difference between right and left is that the left considers the collective to be primary, while the right considers the individual primary.

 

I think you made that up.....out of thin air.....

It's not "collective" to think of a country or the common interests of a federation or state. And it can be pure selfishness, not a political stance, to consider the individual primary.

 

"Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis)[1] is the belief in the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and the free exercise of religion"

 

Conservatism and Right Wing is a little bit harder to clearly define, as it is a newer construct. In general it is harking back the good old days, how things were, tradition, etc - although the modern version has added an "Ayn Rand" and "everyone is Daniel Boone" component, along with the totally opposite idea of strong religion controlling the country. Rand, of course, hates religion and calls those people who follow it weak...or worse.

Authoritarianism is also largely right wing these days - that is, believe in someone else (the preacher, a strong leader, etc.) knowing what is better. That's why the right likes bullies such as Christie and completely passed control of the country to Cheney/Bush.

 

I think maybe you have your terms messed up.B)

 

As to me picking out the "most extreme minority views" or something like that, doggie, the statistics simply don't back that up. VAST portions of the right believe the world was created 6,000 years ago.....and other such anti-science viewpoints. The examples I gave above are supported by large majorities of righties in office.

 

As a current example, the Blunt amendment to control women's wombs.....signed on by almost ALL righties. You can't say that's a "individual freedom" steering amemdment....nor can you tell me only the extremes voted for it.

 

Same goes for many such examples. I'll let you do your homework if you wish - but if the things I mentioned were a tiny extremist minority, they could not have taken over our economy, public discourse, foreign policy and country as a whole...

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The fundamental difference between right and left is that the left considers the collective to be primary, while the right considers the individual primary.

 

I think you made that up.....out of thin air.....

It's not "collective" to think of a country or the common interests of a federation or state. And it can be pure selfishness, not a political stance, to consider the individual primary.

 

"Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis)[1] is the belief in the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and the free exercise of religion"

 

Conservatism and Right Wing is a little bit harder to clearly define, as it is a newer construct. In general it is harking back the good old days, how things were, tradition, etc - although the modern version has added an "Ayn Rand" and "everyone is Daniel Boone" component, along with the totally opposite idea of strong religion controlling the country. Rand, of course, hates religion and calls those people who follow it weak...or worse.

Authoritarianism is also largely right wing these days - that is, believe in someone else (the preacher, a strong leader, etc.) knowing what is better. That's why the right likes bullies such as Christie and completely passed control of the country to Cheney/Bush.

 

I think maybe you have your terms messed up.B)

 

As to me picking out the "most extreme minority views" or something like that, doggie, the statistics simply don't back that up. VAST portions of the right believe the world was created 6,000 years ago.....and other such anti-science viewpoints. The examples I gave above are supported by large majorities of righties in office.

 

As a current example, the Blunt amendment to control women's wombs.....signed on by almost ALL righties. You can't say that's a "individual freedom" steering amemdment....nor can you tell me only the extremes voted for it.

 

Same goes for many such examples. I'll let you do your homework if you wish - but if the things I mentioned were a tiny extremist minority, they could not have taken over our economy, public discourse, foreign policy and country as a whole...

I did not use the term “liberal”, and I would consider myself a liberal if you’re using the classical definition, I used left vs. right. You know what; I don’t believe you’re interested in understanding those of us on the right. If you were you would listen to us instead of telling us what you think we think. You’re not only an idiot, you’re an arrogant idiot who would rather believe the demons you have concocted in your own head than real people.

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You kids are gonna get an A+++ from the school of Rove and Axelrod.

 

You all do a marvelous job of derailing any sort of conversation by turning it into a right v left argument. Bravo, keep it up while the world goes into the crapper as you all hurl 3 second sound bites and cull the web for stuff that supports your narrow belief in what is real out there. DC spin-meisters have trained you well.

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You kids are gonna get an A+++ from the school of Rove and Axelrod.

 

You all do a marvelous job of derailing any sort of conversation by turning it into a right v left argument. Bravo, keep it up while the world goes into the crapper as you all hurl 3 second sound bites and cull the web for stuff that supports your narrow belief in what is real out there. DC spin-meisters have trained you well.

 

You mean like posting meaningless anecdotes of bad things that "come in threes" and calling that evidence of something we are supposed to all panic and do something about?

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You kids are gonna get an A+++ from the school of Rove and Axelrod.

 

You all do a marvelous job of derailing any sort of conversation by turning it into a right v left argument. Bravo, keep it up while the world goes into the crapper as you all hurl 3 second sound bites and cull the web for stuff that supports your narrow belief in what is real out there. DC spin-meisters have trained you well.

 

You mean like posting meaningless anecdotes of bad things that "come in threes" and calling that evidence of something we are supposed to all panic and do something about?

 

Based on freedom of the individual, we needn't concern ourselves with anything other than what happens today. Screw all the rest of 'em who have to worry when we are gone....

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Guest One of Five

I'm going to be kind here and suggest that Craigirl's problem goes, well, just a little deeper than that.

 

Crap, we agree....

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I did not use the term "liberal", and I would consider myself a liberal if you're using the classical definition, I used left vs. right. You know what; I don't believe you're interested in understanding those of us on the right. If you were you would listen to us instead of telling us what you think we think. You're not only an idiot, you're an arrogant idiot who would rather believe the demons you have concocted in your own head than real people.

 

OK, so Fox and everyone else cursing out the word "liberal: pertains to you and not I. I think I am coming around...

 

And the Left is not more liberal than the right, even though ALL of those examples I gave were more favored by the right......

 

Doggie, I don't claim to know who or what you are. I'm speaking in general about the right wing, conservative brand, GOP politics of the last 30 years...right up to and including today. The country and world as a whole concern me.....your internal value system much less so.

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Guest One of Five

I did not use the term “liberal”, and I would consider myself a liberal if you’re using the classical definition, I used left vs. right. You know what; I don’t believe you’re interested in understanding those of us on the right. If you were you would listen to us instead of telling us what you think we think. You’re not only an idiot, you’re an arrogant idiot who would rather believe the demons you have concocted in your own head than real people.

 

I've noticed that trend too.

 

Sometimes I think he's just a troll...

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I've noticed that trend too.

 

Sometimes I think he's just a troll...

 

Always remember - anyone who disagrees with The Way must be a troll or an idiot. After all The Way of the Conservative is working out just dandy for the world....

 

It's like you folks not only deny climate change, but also already forget WMD, the Great Recession and the gutting of the American Middle Class.

 

All it takes is a bit of memory......and I was blessed with a good one.

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So the high tomorrow is predicted to be 87, another record. Looks like I am cancelling my end of year ski trip because it is 70 in the afternoons on the slopes.

 

The last two summers were the hottest on record, last year was the driest.

 

Question: how long does weather have to last before it becomes climate?

TIA.

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Guest One of Five

So the high tomorrow is predicted to be 87, another record. Looks like I am cancelling my end of year ski trip because it is 70 in the afternoons on the slopes.

 

The last two summers were the hottest on record, last year was the driest.

 

Question: how long does weather have to last before it becomes climate?

TIA.

 

Where do you normally go Skiing?

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I have many a memory from Killington at easter......April 4,5,6 etc.....

 

But that's just one place at one time. The charts show a lot more than either my stories or the ignorant postings of the newspaper articles which pervade this thread.

 

As I said before, some people will never admit it - not matter what. A large number of wife and child beaters don't think they really do it. A large number think the earth was just created..and so on.

 

I don't spend my time trying to convince nutters of the age of the earth, etc. - if anything, I just ask them to think and research for themselves and stop reading newsmax.

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So the high tomorrow is predicted to be 87, another record. Looks like I am cancelling my end of year ski trip because it is 70 in the afternoons on the slopes.

 

The last two summers were the hottest on record, last year was the driest.

 

Question: how long does weather have to last before it becomes climate?

TIA.

 

Where do you normally go Skiing?

Taos. Did Keystone/Breckinridge/Vail last month but have several friends that usually ski the end of season at Taos. A couple of friends are longtime instructors there and they say it sucks. A friend was there during spring break and it was shirt sleeve weather in the afternoon. FWIW my last day in CO the windchill was -28. The following week it was really warm.

 

not good times.

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Guest One of Five

So the high tomorrow is predicted to be 87, another record. Looks like I am cancelling my end of year ski trip because it is 70 in the afternoons on the slopes.

 

The last two summers were the hottest on record, last year was the driest.

 

Question: how long does weather have to last before it becomes climate?

TIA.

 

Where do you normally go Skiing?

Taos. Did Keystone/Breckinridge/Vail last month but have several friends that usually ski the end of season at Taos. A couple of friends are longtime instructors there and they say it sucks. A friend was there during spring break and it was shirt sleeve weather in the afternoon. FWIW my last day in CO the windchill was -28. The following week it was really warm.

 

not good times.

 

yea but that is Colorado 70 degrees one day and blizzards the next.

 

Been back to upstate NY?

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"They say bad things come in 3s. You can choose to look at the three new scientific reports out this week as series of bad things--they all underscore the need for the world to take bold, swift and brave action to avoid the worst effects of climate change; or you can choose to view these new studies as three more bricks to use to build a global consensus for action."Clicky for full story and links to the 3 stories.

 

August, 1896

 

ScreenHunter_71-Mar.-30-01.01.jpg

 

 

 

September, 1926

 

ScreenHunter_67-Mar.-29-21.34.jpg

 

 

 

May, 1910

ScreenHunter_34-Mar.-28-07.42.jpg

 

 

 

Weather is climate when we say it is.

Weather is not climate...until it becomes a trend

 

 

 

And a trend is a trend when we say it is.

 

Screen-Shot-2012-02-25-at-7.32.27-PM.png

berkeley-earth-land-surface-average-temperature-60yr.jpg

 

looks like evidence of increasing temperature to me.

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"They say bad things come in 3s. You can choose to look at the three new scientific reports out this week as series of bad things--they all underscore the need for the world to take bold, swift and brave action to avoid the worst effects of climate change; or you can choose to view these new studies as three more bricks to use to build a global consensus for action."Clicky for full story and links to the 3 stories.

 

August, 1896

 

ScreenHunter_71-Mar.-30-01.01.jpg

 

 

 

September, 1926

 

ScreenHunter_67-Mar.-29-21.34.jpg

 

 

 

May, 1910

ScreenHunter_34-Mar.-28-07.42.jpg

 

 

 

Weather is climate when we say it is.

Weather is not climate...until it becomes a trend

 

 

 

And a trend is a trend when we say it is.

 

Screen-Shot-2012-02-25-at-7.32.27-PM.png

berkeley-earth-land-surface-average-temperature-60yr.jpg

 

looks like evidence of increasing temperature to me.

 

A trend is a trend except when it's not.

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So the high tomorrow is predicted to be 87, another record. Looks like I am cancelling my end of year ski trip because it is 70 in the afternoons on the slopes.

 

The last two summers were the hottest on record, last year was the driest.

 

Question: how long does weather have to last before it becomes climate?

TIA.

 

Where do you normally go Skiing?

Taos. Did Keystone/Breckinridge/Vail last month but have several friends that usually ski the end of season at Taos. A couple of friends are longtime instructors there and they say it sucks. A friend was there during spring break and it was shirt sleeve weather in the afternoon. FWIW my last day in CO the windchill was -28. The following week it was really warm.

 

not good times.

 

Last April, when there was 30 inches of snow in my backyard, I skied till April 2nd - at Killington - in powder.

 

This year we packed it in 2 weeks ago. Worst ski season in my 35 years on skis. But we still managed 38 days on snow.

 

Meaningless - last year as we were buried in snow and bitter cold (we ski in VT every weekend, I know. Many if not most January mornings are single digits at dawn). The global warming alarmists - or shall we say "climate change " now - were mum last year and call it "weather." This year they call it "climate."

 

In 1981 we had a warm February that melted and shut down most of the ski areas in Vermont - some for good. No one at the time blamed it on anything other than "the weather."

 

As the old New England saying goes, if you don't like the "weather", just wait a minute. ....or maybe it's climate?

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I agree that snow load and the relative warmth of one winter over another is too cyclical to take as data.

A longer window is reflected in USDA hardiness zones, which BTW changed by as many as two levels for us recently!

 

This is NOT a political chart.

 

http://planthardines...a.gov/PHZMWeb/#

 

"Compared with the 1990 version, zone boundaries in this edition of the map have shifted in many areas. The new PHZM is generally one half-zone warmer than the previous PHZM throughout much of the United States"

They readily admin that their 20-30 year test windows are NOT climate, but rather weather. But 1/2 zone difference is a major move.

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1333202926[/url]' post='3651807']

I agree that snow load and the relative warmth of one winter over another is too cyclical to take as data.

A longer window is reflected in USDA hardiness zones, which BTW changed by as many as two levels for us recently!

 

This is NOT a political chart.

 

http://planthardines...a.gov/PHZMWeb/#

 

"Compared with the 1990 version, zone boundaries in this edition of the map have shifted in many areas. The new PHZM is generally one half-zone warmer than the previous PHZM throughout much of the United States"

They readily admin that their 20-30 year test windows are NOT climate, but rather weather. But 1/2 zone difference is a major move.

 

nhland_season1-2.gif

 

Rutgers University Snow Lab

May we now add to the list of your accomplishments "Climate Moron"?

 

 

 

 

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May we now add to the list of your accomplishments "Climate Moron"?

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, but first you have to explain two things to me....

 

1. I said snow was NO indication of climate reality......

2. Plant hardiness zones are calculated by using decades of modern data - and have very little to do with snow. After all, snow falls at fairly high temps.

 

So, please explain how, since we agree on the snow thing, you somehow gleamed differently? Then please explain why you think the USDA actual measured data has changed so much??

 

My guess is that you are unable to actually express opinions and draw conclusions as 99% of your drivel is cut and paste from rightie sources or charts with NO explanation. It would behoove you to actually use your mind.

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Why is this even still being talked about here? Some believe and others don't.

I haven't seen 1 person from either side change their mind.

 

After a walk in the woods today, it looks like my morels should be about a 5 weeks early this year.

Yay! I've gottta finish off a side of beef soon and morels are so good with steak and asparagus.

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Why is this even still being talked about here? Some believe and others don't.

I haven't seen 1 person from either side change their mind.

 

After a walk in the woods today, it looks like my morels should be about a 5 weeks early this year.

Yay! I've gottta finish off a side of beef soon and morels are so good with steak and asparagus.

 

You are right. Some, like myself, actually believe the USDA plant hardiness chart and others think that Kenyan Obamie must have appointed someone (even though the new chart was done under GW) to have his way with it....

cool.gif

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We won't put in until April 15th. It's unholy and unheard of to plant before then.

But about 20% is planted on other farms around me.

 

Everyone is doing corn this year. Doh.

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