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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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Swanno

VOR Leg 6

760 posts in this topic

PUMA's move to the south now is to set themselves up to cover CAMPER at CAMPER's rounding; if PUMA had set out too far into the Stream running 4-5 knots to the north, and CAMPER, after rounding, had headed south immediately, PUMA would have been stuck in the current and unable to cover

 

PUMA can now be in position to cover CAMPER no matter what course CAMPER sets

 

Puma and Camper are match racing right now.

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Could somebody explain a bit the deal with this current ? A link ?

Google 'Gulf Stream' for an overview. A TON of current washes north along here getting in some places as close as 3 mi to the coast of florida. It is HOT water from the carribean that goes up the east coast of the USA and turns right toward europe. The water is hot enough to generate local weather and you can get slammed in a short period of time. Right now Kenny picked to get south while camper was getting to the last mark. That produces more covering options for him up-current. The only thing that can stop Puma now is a local weather issue (as they have done several times this lap around the globe.)

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Looking at the live tracker Puma is getting lifted to the mark while Camper is getting headed. Who knows how long that will last but every little bit helps.

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>>back in the day, there used to be an SORC race known as the Ocean Triangle<

 

Brings back memories to see these boats sail much of the same waters. We won Class B in that race one year back in the days of the old IOR war horses. This it was the same year of the nasty Miami - Naussu race so well documented in this old SI article " Reaching and Retching to Naussu" (I don't remember much reaching). That was not a fun ride.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1090820/index.htm

 

 

+1

 

great link, thanks for that

 

funny, I don't remember one Gulf Stream crossing from back in those days where the conditions were as placid as the VOR boats are seeing today- it always seemed to be blowing like snot, 20 knots plus from the north, wind against Gulf Stream

 

I used to have black and blue bruises behind my knees from sitting (or being slammed around) on the windward rail all night

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Yes. All the advice tells the prudent boater to make all (or even a little more) southing, when crossing east to west, at the edges, where there is less current. It's called a "Z" course, your track looks just like it. When in the middle it pays to make your best VMG to get across as quickly as possible, then on the edge head back south again.

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Camper heading North?

 

Telefonica smoking along at just over 20 knots! WTF?!

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Camper heading North?

 

Telefonica smoking along at just over 20 knots! WTF?!

 

 

CAMPER's in the Gulf Stream now- their bow may be pointing to Miami, or due west, anyway, but their course over the bottom will trend north!

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Camper heading North?

 

Telefonica smoking along at just over 20 knots! WTF?!

 

 

CAMPER's in the Gulf Stream now- their bow may be pointing to Miami, or due west, anyway, but their course over the bottom will trend north!

Light air beating into the stream is going to be not so fun! Look like a reach to the beach.

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This is riveting. The overall points are closing up nicely too!

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This is riveting. The overall points are closing up nicely too!

G4 needs to stay in front of Tele otherwise I fear the title is Tele's (which it may be anyhow)

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The live tracker shows Puma sailing a hair higher and a hair faster than Camper over the last hour. Camper must have run into the edge effects of a thunderstorm or something. Of course, it may all be a flaw in the tracker, too. Hard to tell.

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Anybody on the beach north of Miami? Should be able to watch them tack down the beach once they get across the stream.

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The live tracker shows Puma sailing a hair higher and a hair faster than Camper over the last hour. Camper must have run into the edge effects of a thunderstorm or something. Of course, it may all be a flaw in the tracker, too. Hard to tell.

Over the last quarter hour, Camper has periodically tried to sail higher, but they quickly slow more than they can stand and bear off again. It looks like every time they do this, they lose a tiny bit more to Puma. It's hard to be sure using the precision tools of the tracker, but so far nothing they've tried seems to be working.

 

Both boats are sailing a bit higher now, indicating, I think, that they've passed the axis of the stream and have a touch less current. They'll still have some current, progressively lessening, until they're pretty close to shore, about two miles out most of the time. In closer, there's typically a counter current that will carry them down to the finish, but it looks as if they'll be tacking down the shore line and calling the tacks can be a demanding exercise for the naviguesser. Great fun!

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Strong race by Puma and it's great to see the points spread closing. GP will have an interesting cover decision once they roung Great Isaac: How far south to go before they enter the stream with the wind clocking and favoring the starboard tack along the beach after they cross.

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The live tracker shows Puma sailing a hair higher and a hair faster than Camper over the last hour. Camper must have run into the edge effects of a thunderstorm or something. Of course, it may all be a flaw in the tracker, too. Hard to tell.

South better for crossing the g stream?

 

Btw: Do the boats get hourly updates now? Including position data for the other boats?

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I'm guessing that Groupa will not try to reinvent the wheel but will copy Puma's course to the extent they can derive it from the position updates.

Getting in behind Bimini by going south around the last mark gives some current relief and provides more covering options for the lead boat.

Miami radar shows no significant thunderstorm/rain events but those of us in Florida know that can change in a hurry as the day heats up.

http://radar.weather.gov/radar.php?rid=AMX&product=N0R&overlay=11101111&loop=yes

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PUMA and CAMPER will be hugging the beach on their way south to the finish

 

good opportunities for spectating from shore

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The live tracker shows Puma sailing a hair higher and a hair faster than Camper over the last hour. Camper must have run into the edge effects of a thunderstorm or something. Of course, it may all be a flaw in the tracker, too. Hard to tell.

South better for crossing the g stream?

 

Btw: Do the boats get hourly updates now? Including position data for the other boats?

 

Yes, the boats do get hourly reports. Shannon Falcone mentioned it in his recent posting on Facebook.

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The live tracker shows Puma sailing a hair higher and a hair faster than Camper over the last hour. Camper must have run into the edge effects of a thunderstorm or something. Of course, it may all be a flaw in the tracker, too. Hard to tell.

South better for crossing the g stream?

 

Btw: Do the boats get hourly updates now? Including position data for the other boats?

 

North or south, it's the thunderstorms that make a difference in crossing the stream. some of 'em will knock you back (and down, if you're not careful), while others will give you a nice lift and a good strong breeze if you catch the right side at the right distance from the center. They're strong, they're unpredictable and they're frequent. If you get on the wrong side, they can create a really ugly chop blowing against the current, with six-eight foot square waves that will shake your teeth out. The crossing is long enough that you pick your spot and go (not sailing directly into any you can see) and take your chances with the thunder bumpers.

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I guess I wouldn't really want to be in a helo if the T'storms are that bad

It's a big ocean. The t'storms aren't everywhere.

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P&C are definitely getting less current now, and appear to be holding about 260 degrees COG. They'll get "lifted" more as they approach the shore. Hard to tell, but they could be sailing a heading of around 240 degrees.

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So - according to the VOR site, 18.1 km to go, Puma and Camper in sight of each other, and not even a pretense of anything live. While Knut, Volvo, and the sailing experts all bemoan the difficulties of sustaining this event, they fiddle while one of the single most exciting and gripping parts of the race is left to tomorrow's newspapers.

 

Forget the number or ages of the crew members forget the frequency of the MCM updates, forget where you take the race, forget ALL of the fluff in which the VOR organizers seem to revel - if the broadcast / marketing of this most fundamental and essential element of the race is beyond their powers of organization, there is simply no hope.

 

I don't know a great deal about sailing these boats, but I do know sponsorship, and I do know what it takes for an MNC to sign on to this kind of commitment. If the coverage of this finish is representative of the competence of the race organizers, then sadly - very sadly - this once great race has no future. Shame Volvo! Shame!

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wouldn't expect to see any change in their more-or-less westerly courses until PUMA and CAMPER are within a mile of the beach, and thenthey will enjoy a good end-of-race adrenaline charge of short-tacking their way south

 

they're going to want to push it as close to the beach as they dare, but running aground here would be brutal

 

on the other hand, the Stream, whose western edge is often very well defined and very close to shore, is brutal to sail into

 

lots of tacks coming unless they enjoy a good angle

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It looks to me that Puma has gotten just enough west of Camper that they are coming out of the current a bit sooner. That means they can sail "higher" (the same heading, probably, but with less set from the current) without losing speed and they'll reach the western wall before Camper. That'll give 'em a good jump on getting south to the finish.

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it's nice that PUMA and CAMPER will be finished in time for us all to watch GROUPAMA and TELE play their Gulf Stream crossings

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PUMA is romping home now, with a good angle, speed in double digits, less than 10 miles to the finish, and her competition 8 plus miles downwind and downcurrent

 

with (dare I say now?) two consecutive leg wins for PUMA, and TELE seemingly in the toilet this leg, is there a momentum shift or what?

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Strong race by Puma and it's great to see the points spread closing. GP will have an interesting cover decision once they roung Great Isaac: How far south to go before they enter the stream with the wind clocking and favoring the starboard tack along the beach after they cross.

 

Who says the wind is clocking? These guys have been sailing a heading of around 235-240 degrees the whole time. It's the set from the current in the stream that you're looking at. Remember, the axis of the stream runs at around 4 knots and there's still a knot or more at the western wall. Now that they are past the axis and approaching the western wall, there's less current and their cog is getting closer to their heading again.

 

If anything, the wind is backing as they approach the shore, with a sea breeze component being added into the "prevailing" wind.

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So - according to the VOR site, 18.1 km to go, Puma and Camper in sight of each other, and not even a pretense of anything live. While Knut, Volvo, and the sailing experts all bemoan the difficulties of sustaining this event, they fiddle while one of the single most exciting and gripping parts of the race is left to tomorrow's newspapers.

 

Forget the number or ages of the crew members forget the frequency of the MCM updates, forget where you take the race, forget ALL of the fluff in which the VOR organizers seem to revel - if the broadcast / marketing of this most fundamental and essential element of the race is beyond their powers of organization, there is simply no hope.

 

I don't know a great deal about sailing these boats, but I do know sponsorship, and I do know what it takes for an MNC to sign on to this kind of commitment. If the coverage of this finish is representative of the competence of the race organizers, then sadly - very sadly - this once great race has no future. Shame Volvo! Shame!

 

+1

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So - according to the VOR site, 18.1 km to go, Puma and Camper in sight of each other, and not even a pretense of anything live. While Knut, Volvo, and the sailing experts all bemoan the difficulties of sustaining this event, they fiddle while one of the single most exciting and gripping parts of the race is left to tomorrow's newspapers.

 

Forget the number or ages of the crew members forget the frequency of the MCM updates, forget where you take the race, forget ALL of the fluff in which the VOR organizers seem to revel - if the broadcast / marketing of this most fundamental and essential element of the race is beyond their powers of organization, there is simply no hope.

 

I don't know a great deal about sailing these boats, but I do know sponsorship, and I do know what it takes for an MNC to sign on to this kind of commitment. If the coverage of this finish is representative of the competence of the race organizers, then sadly - very sadly - this once great race has no future. Shame Volvo! Shame!

 

+1

+2

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So - according to the VOR site, 18.1 km to go, Puma and Camper in sight of each other, and not even a pretense of anything live. While Knut, Volvo, and the sailing experts all bemoan the difficulties of sustaining this event, they fiddle while one of the single most exciting and gripping parts of the race is left to tomorrow's newspapers.

 

Forget the number or ages of the crew members forget the frequency of the MCM updates, forget where you take the race, forget ALL of the fluff in which the VOR organizers seem to revel - if the broadcast / marketing of this most fundamental and essential element of the race is beyond their powers of organization, there is simply no hope.

 

I don't know a great deal about sailing these boats, but I do know sponsorship, and I do know what it takes for an MNC to sign on to this kind of commitment. If the coverage of this finish is representative of the competence of the race organizers, then sadly - very sadly - this once great race has no future. Shame Volvo! Shame!

 

+1

+2

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more. The sponsors are getting way too little exposure for their huge investments. Why sponsor something if it's a black hole? At some point it's just not going to work for them. I was speaking to a friend of mine last week who lives outside Miami -- a non-sailor -- and he'd never even heard of the Volvo Ocean Race.

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Who says the wind is clocking?

 

Wind will clock later. If you read what you quote you had noticed he talked about GP and Tele.

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I completely agree. The last two finishes have been awesome, and the only "live" spectating has been in this forum, which is pretty sad. This is an OCEAN RACE, so for most of us, the big legs are the important ones. Watching the inshore races is a complete joke, and it's clear that these boats are not designed for that kind of racing, and they look silly doing it, but yet that is the only live coverage we get of an ocean race.

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I have had spotters up the coast that can't see them. Can anyone see them coming in right now?

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PUMA now a little over a mile off the beach... finish around five miles ahead... Kenny is looking at the beach and saying "Can we tack now? Please? Can we tack now?"

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on the other hand for the non experts having helicopter footage now, or during the in port races doesn't change much.

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PUMA now a little over a mile off the beach... finish around five miles ahead... Kenny is looking at the beach and saying "Can we tack now? Please? Can we tack now?"

 

They tacked

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okay quick bet: how many tacks will PUMA take to get to the finish?

 

I say three

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can see a few smoke shows on the beach on those webcams

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Who says the wind is clocking?

 

Wind will clock later. If you read what you quote you had noticed he talked about GP and Tele.

 

Wind on the models I look at show clocking Thursday night or Friday morning. I would expect GA4 and Tele to finish before that unless something exceptional happens. They're only 70 and 80 miles out at the moment, and making better than 15 knots over the last sched. They could conceivably finish before dark today if they can keep their speed up anywhere over 10 knots.

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Can't believe we don't have anybody down there sending up photos

..it's only about 4pm local time,,,it's Miami -people are just waking-up!! :rolleyes:

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I'm looking at the tracker and I don't see that they tacked. Looks like they were both headed west then were both swept north while crossing the gulf stream and are now back on a slightly south of west heading. What am I missing?

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I'm looking at the tracker and I don't see that they tacked. Looks like they were both headed west then were both swept north while crossing the gulf stream and are now back on a slightly south of west heading. What am I missing?

 

Click the LIVE button on the top left of the tracker.

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AFR's webcam is showing a big sailboat just off government cut right now.

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I'm looking at the tracker and I don't see that they tacked. Looks like they were both headed west then were both swept north while crossing the gulf stream and are now back on a slightly south of west heading. What am I missing?

 

Click the LIVE button on the top left of the tracker.

 

duh! thanks

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looks like it's just going to one more tack

 

they can overstand a little if they want

 

well done PUMA

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I'm looking at the tracker and I don't see that they tacked. Looks like they were both headed west then were both swept north while crossing the gulf stream and are now back on a slightly south of west heading. What am I missing?

 

 

Click on "Live" in the top left.

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looks like it's just going to one more tack

 

they can overstand a little if they want

 

well done PUMA

they've tacked with a bit in the bank, but not a silly amount. They should be able to hold a fast angle across the line in about 4 miles or a bit more (20-30 minutes or so).

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CAMPER's now about a mile off the beach, still heading in

 

too late to catch PUMA, but still time to look at girls sunbathing topless

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go PUMA! Live stream has some photos but sadly no live video....How hard would streaming this have been?

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Congratulations to Puma and crew...very nicely done!

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So - according to the VOR site, 18.1 km to go, Puma and Camper in sight of each other, and not even a pretense of anything live. While Knut, Volvo, and the sailing experts all bemoan the difficulties of sustaining this event, they fiddle while one of the single most exciting and gripping parts of the race is left to tomorrow's newspapers.

 

Forget the number or ages of the crew members forget the frequency of the MCM updates, forget where you take the race, forget ALL of the fluff in which the VOR organizers seem to revel - if the broadcast / marketing of this most fundamental and essential element of the race is beyond their powers of organization, there is simply no hope.

 

I don't know a great deal about sailing these boats, but I do know sponsorship, and I do know what it takes for an MNC to sign on to this kind of commitment. If the coverage of this finish is representative of the competence of the race organizers, then sadly - very sadly - this once great race has no future. Shame Volvo! Shame!

 

+1

+2

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more. The sponsors are getting way too little exposure for their huge investments. Why sponsor something if it's a black hole? At some point it's just not going to work for them. I was speaking to a friend of mine last week who lives outside Miami -- a non-sailor -- and he'd never even heard of the Volvo Ocean Race.

Can't say I disagree, but it's a bit more complicated: how do you get a sports network or news organization or anyone else in TV production to commit resources to covering the finish of a race when you can't even guarantee what WEEK the finish will be, much less what day. And when the finish may happen at 3 AM local time, it's a tough sell. And when the spread between first to finish and last may be several days, how is that going to be sold to a public that expects finishing margins in seconds or fractions of seconds.

 

In that context, I think a live finish is unlikely even with Volvo bucks to push for it. ESPN or Versus (or whatever it is they call themselves now) can't easily be persuaded to put on an event that will lead their audience to mass poking at the remote. They work hard to get those folks to tune in and don't want anything to make them tune out again.

 

Just sayin'.

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Great way to come into your home port. Great job Peeewma.

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Nicely done, Puma!

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So - according to the VOR site, 18.1 km to go, Puma and Camper in sight of each other, and not even a pretense of anything live. While Knut, Volvo, and the sailing experts all bemoan the difficulties of sustaining this event, they fiddle while one of the single most exciting and gripping parts of the race is left to tomorrow's newspapers.

 

Forget the number or ages of the crew members forget the frequency of the MCM updates, forget where you take the race, forget ALL of the fluff in which the VOR organizers seem to revel - if the broadcast / marketing of this most fundamental and essential element of the race is beyond their powers of organization, there is simply no hope.

 

I don't know a great deal about sailing these boats, but I do know sponsorship, and I do know what it takes for an MNC to sign on to this kind of commitment. If the coverage of this finish is representative of the competence of the race organizers, then sadly - very sadly - this once great race has no future. Shame Volvo! Shame!

 

+1

+2

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more. The sponsors are getting way too little exposure for their huge investments. Why sponsor something if it's a black hole? At some point it's just not going to work for them. I was speaking to a friend of mine last week who lives outside Miami -- a non-sailor -- and he'd never even heard of the Volvo Ocean Race.

Can't say I disagree, but it's a bit more complicated: how do you get a sports network or news organization or anyone else in TV production to commit resources to covering the finish of a race when you can't even guarantee what WEEK the finish will be, much less what day. And when the finish may happen at 3 AM local time, it's a tough sell. And when the spread between first to finish and last may be several days, how is that going to be sold to a public that expects finishing margins in seconds or fractions of seconds.

 

In that context, I think a live finish is unlikely even with Volvo bucks to push for it. ESPN or Versus (or whatever it is they call themselves now) can't easily be persuaded to put on an event that will lead their audience to mass poking at the remote. They work hard to get those folks to tune in and don't want anything to make them tune out again.

 

Just sayin'.

 

BUT, you ought to be able to interest the local TV stations. This would make a nice story for them on the local news.

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Awesome leg Puma! Congratulations.

 

Wire to wire.

 

Unbelievable.

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after the last 2 legs I dare say I might actually care about this race again. only 5 points between 2nd and 4th and 1st is not out of reach... hmm

 

well done Puma

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now let us turn our attention to GROUPAMA and TELE, just approaching Great Isaac Light

 

GROUPAMA nees to keep TELE in the rear view; will she follow the PUMA path of making southing early, before TELE makes it around, so as to establish an upcurrent position?

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So - according to the VOR site, 18.1 km to go, Puma and Camper in sight of each other, and not even a pretense of anything live. While Knut, Volvo, and the sailing experts all bemoan the difficulties of sustaining this event, they fiddle while one of the single most exciting and gripping parts of the race is left to tomorrow's newspapers.

 

Forget the number or ages of the crew members forget the frequency of the MCM updates, forget where you take the race, forget ALL of the fluff in which the VOR organizers seem to revel - if the broadcast / marketing of this most fundamental and essential element of the race is beyond their powers of organization, there is simply no hope.

 

I don't know a great deal about sailing these boats, but I do know sponsorship, and I do know what it takes for an MNC to sign on to this kind of commitment. If the coverage of this finish is representative of the competence of the race organizers, then sadly - very sadly - this once great race has no future. Shame Volvo! Shame!

 

+1

+2

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more. The sponsors are getting way too little exposure for their huge investments. Why sponsor something if it's a black hole? At some point it's just not going to work for them. I was speaking to a friend of mine last week who lives outside Miami -- a non-sailor -- and he'd never even heard of the Volvo Ocean Race.

Can't say I disagree, but it's a bit more complicated: how do you get a sports network or news organization or anyone else in TV production to commit resources to covering the finish of a race when you can't even guarantee what WEEK the finish will be, much less what day. And when the finish may happen at 3 AM local time, it's a tough sell. And when the spread between first to finish and last may be several days, how is that going to be sold to a public that expects finishing margins in seconds or fractions of seconds.

 

In that context, I think a live finish is unlikely even with Volvo bucks to push for it. ESPN or Versus (or whatever it is they call themselves now) can't easily be persuaded to put on an event that will lead their audience to mass poking at the remote. They work hard to get those folks to tune in and don't want anything to make them tune out again.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Heli is already up in the air, sending stills back to shore. Not really that hard to use something like justin.tv to send a low res video back and have distributed to the world via web site. I'm guessing the reason they don't has more to do with livestream not having a clean way to do this then anything else. Had they used youtube live or several other alternatives (which I have personally used but have no investments / connections to) a simple live podcast might have been possible. Pure speculation on my part, but if you can stream your daughter's ballet class from an iPhone and 3g, you can stream volvo finishes from the heli that is already up and flying over US land mass (i.e within cell phone reach).

 

hell, if Clean and company can figure out how to do it....

 

My uneducated 2 cents

 

edit: some kind person has shown me that you can do this with livestream...

http://www.livestream.com/marquis_miami

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now let us turn our attention to GROUPAMA and TELE, just approaching Great Isaac Light

 

GROUPAMA nees to keep TELE in the rear view; will she follow the PUMA path of making southing early, before TELE makes it around, so as to establish an upcurrent position?

Tacking looks [edit: not so] expensive if the wind is at about 200 degrees true (dashboard says so, but that's an hour ago). Will be interesting to see if and how far south (as mr Dumas said earlier). What's their best COG angle against the true wind close hauled, 40-45 degrees?

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If groupama has distance on Tele they Definitely want to get south out of the current until Tele rounds the light - that is just plain course management at this point. Why the hell would you take off across the current and potentially let a competitor get 'inside you' up current and up breeze. your only defense if Tele tacked south after the light would be to tack into the current??? that doesn't make any sense.

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Front page has it up now, but with a useless link to a single post in the Sailing Anarchy forum. What's with that?

 

And why does the thread in the AC forum have all the pictures?

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If groupama has distance on Tele they Definitely want to get south out of the current until Tele rounds the light - that is just plain course management at this point. Why the hell would you take off across the current and potentially let a competitor get 'inside you' up current and up breeze. your only defense if Tele tacked south after the light would be to tack into the current??? that doesn't make any sense.

 

Which is what they've done

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congrats to Puma! Superb! Best VOR ever!

Surprised how few people at the dock.

 

nice cam

 

no shit, there's about 13 people there WTF? and once again no video of the finish- fail!

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If groupama has distance on Tele they Definitely want to get south out of the current until Tele rounds the light - that is just plain course management at this point. Why the hell would you take off across the current and potentially let a competitor get 'inside you' up current and up breeze. your only defense if Tele tacked south after the light would be to tack into the current??? that doesn't make any sense.

Point taken. I think the point being made earlier was that if the wind is turning, being higher north when across the stream & close to shore will let you have a more favourable course towards the finish [edit: than the course Groupama is having now].

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And why does the thread in the AC forum have all the pictures?

 

597ca95c-7afc-4439-a5a2-29f12a821e1a.jpg

 

681d6fa4-2e2a-402f-a1c5-f2ebc3942801.jpg

 

ec04540c-955f-4689-948b-6a9afae1c542.jpg

 

f580426b-7d0e-4789-924c-e0941cad745d.jpg

 

48855f09-8199-4599-8a16-e69e974ab0e2.jpg

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The crowds may also be effected by rain. Was coming down cats and dogs a short while ago in Lauderdale. Not sure about Miami but the last time I checked radar there was a massive blob of crap moving W to E.

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