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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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Editor

the Story from Low Speed Chase

194 posts in this topic

Thanks for the detailed report. Best wishes to family and friends of those that were lost and hope those that have survived are able to fully recover from this trauma and eventually return to the sea.

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Great telling Bryan. Very moving and eloquent.

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Holy smokes. What a chilling tale. I am so very sorry for you losses. Thank you for sharing this with all of us. I, too, hope that you find some measure of peace from letting the world know what actually happened on that awful day. You're a good, brave soul. Thank you.

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Wow.

 

 

Bryan, you are a brave hero for sharing these words. Thank you.

Speaking from experience (both being alive because of my tether) and being very unpopular asking others to wear theirs, I applaud you for initiating a change in the status quo.

 

My Dad used to vehemently argue against wearing a seat belt in a car ... and that wasn't that long ago ...

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Thank you for sharing this, I hope all that sail offshore take your insite to heart on safe practices. My first transpacs in the 60's and 70's we didnt rig safey lines, have ERBS, wear lifejackets or even think about hooking in, but so much is now avalible that doesnt change the overall experance. Heart felt condolences.

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Absolutely sensational write-up.

 

My thoughts are with all those involved.

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Brilliant writing and so valiant to do so this soon for the learning of all sailors.

 

My thoughts are with you and your crew mates.

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Editing this man's words is disgusting.

 

you idiots are still whining about editing out other publications names from the intro to the article? so just to check myself, I asked the editor at seahorse if he had any problem with it - none whatsoever. it looks like the big boys don't much care about a non-issue. no complaints from latitude 38, or bryan chong either, just cry-baby leweck and the assorted haters. what a surprise.

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Thank you for sharing your story. My condolences for your loss. This is a wake-up call for me and my boat will pay much more attention to safety. Many of who have been lax about safety in the past have just been lucky. Luck can run out.

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Bryan, my heart felt apologies the loss of your crew mates and close friends. It must have taken so much courage to come forward and speak so well about the incident.

 

I hope your story goes forward reaches many sailors and makes them think twice about their own safety to save lives.

 

My thoughts are with the friends and family of the lost men.

 

And woman.

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My absolute deepest condolences.

 

This tragedy has brought up a lot of issues for me as I know Jay and his crew are superior sailors to myself, and I have been around the rocks many times. This account helped put it in perspective for me. Thanks again, and fair winds.

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Bryan,

 

I am so sorry if I could make this go away it would be gone. This will be with you for the rest of your life and I feel for you Brother, survivors of tragedy are kindred spirits. You are a man above most men, that letter to us must have been so hard to write. THANK YOU and may you never have to write such a letter again. Come to San Diego and the food and drinks will flow like a river! Hold your head high and feel your heart, you are someone to be respected.

 

Salude

 

Josh Lippitt

San Diego, CA

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Condolences--and thanks for the window into the incident. Frightening how quickly it transpired.

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thanks for sharing this powerful story of what mother nature can dish out when you least expect it. many of us are guilty of not being clipped in where conditions warrant it, and the tragic story of low speed chase will be a lesson and reminder to think safety first. all the best to you bryan.

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I've been in the water at night swimming for a boat and despite a lifetime in the water and swimming, that 20' in more benign wave conditions were harder than running a marathon. There is no good way to describe that feeling but you did a much better job than I ever could. Find peace.

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Editing this man's words is disgusting.

 

you idiots are still whining about editing out other publications names from the intro to the article? so just to check myself, I asked the editor at seahorse if he had any problem with it - none whatsoever. it looks like the big boys don't much care about a non-issue. no complaints from latitude 38, or bryan chong either, just cry-baby leweck and the assorted haters. what a surprise.

 

None of this bullshit would have come up but for your insecurities. Would you all please just shut the fuck up? Thank you everyone.

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...You honored your shipmates by setting the record straight...

 

 

 

 

Best comment so far.

 

.

 

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Editing this man's words is disgusting.

 

you idiots are still whining about editing out other publications names from the intro to the article? so just to check myself, I asked the editor at seahorse if he had any problem with it - none whatsoever. it looks like the big boys don't much care about a non-issue. no complaints from latitude 38, or bryan chong either, just cry-baby leweck and the assorted haters. what a surprise.

 

Jeez, ed, drop it. Seriously the wrong place and wrong time for a slap-fest with your nemesis.

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Bryan Thanks for coming out so soon to tell the sailing community what really happened out there. I think most of us that were out that day racing had a pretty good idea.

 

I personally believe that Low Speed could have been many other boats racing that day including my Own.

 

You guys just got that wave.

 

My deepest condolences to You,Jay and Nick and to all the families,friends and fellow sailors who lost some wonderful people. I will remember them every time I go to sea. We happen to be one of the boats giving you guys shit at the start all in good fun ! We know you all as tremendous sailors and I Cant say we were doing things any Different on Double Trouble that day.. Jack Lines In Place all PFD's were being worn. All crew had tethers available but we had not made the call to Clip in. This Tragedy has up'd my concern for safety as Skipper to the next Level. Myself and my Team have already discussed the need to be more aggressive on calling to clip in when offshore.

 

What a site to see the Nor Cal Sailing Community at the Beautiful Memorial last Saturday Night....It is wonderful to be apart of such Caring Respecting group of People. We Honored the families well Now lets continue to do so by doing what we can to learn from this...

 

Bryan Im so Happy you get a 2nd chance at Life. Im sure you will be a wonderful Father and Husband

 

Skipper of Double Trouble

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Mr. Chong, Thank you for taking the time and emotional energy to share this story. Our hearts are with you and yours. +1 to the poster to said you honor your crewmates by setting the record straight, also ad to the sport as a whole. When things go wrong, it's important for the rest of us to learn and reflect.

 

Editors: How about a permalink to the full story? It needs to be shared broadly.

 

Thank you.

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News guys.. zip it. You're making the Murdoch press look like angels.

 

BRYAN.. well said, its a community here (and elsewhere); thank you for giving back under such trying circumstances.

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Bryan,

 

A huge thank you for your honest and frank tale that serves to both remind and teach us lessons in safety at sea.

 

I have already re-read your words a couple of times and have taken a few learnings already. It's now up to me and our global sailing community to use them.

 

Rest be assured, if you ever find yourself 'down under' there is a community of SAers here who would love to show you the love.

 

Fair winds

 

ASC

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Many thanks for sharing, your openness is much appreciated.

 

J

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Thank you for your candor in sharing. Your words describing why we sail and race in spite of the risks involved rings true in many of our hearts.

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It has been many years since I've done a Farallones race....saddened to hear of the losses of great sailors and loved ones.

 

Bryan's great recounting reminded that almost every time I went around that NW corner, I could sense something eerie and instinctively visualized that "wave" in my mind. There is shallow spot (about 25-30ft deep) a ways off the corner that can trip up the bigger swells in a surprising way. Every time I wanted to ease the sheets and bear off, I waited...out of fear of my "vision". Sometimes I could see/hear boats to leeward and inside of us suddenly sheeting back in after they saw a swell just beginning to trip up in front of them in an ominous way.

 

It is a dangerous spot, and that's where the late Joakim Jonsson and I rescued Gary Helms, after he and his crew flipped their F31 in the DH race in 1999.

 

No doubt that Low Speed Chase had the bad luck to be there right when that big set came through. I can vividly see the wave that Bryan describes...reinforced by my own previous visions. Yikes, gives me chills.

 

Be careful out there.

 

Bruce

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Recon you have stated what 99% of us ocean racers think and do every time we race. Time to adjust the thinking and doing......Quote " it's no hard to clip on" unquote.

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Thank you

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Thank you, Brian.

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Amazing 1st person perspective. I am very sorry about your loss. It is scary how close we can all come to this every time we go out.

 

Sail safe, sail fast.

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Bryan, thank you for having the courage to stand up and be heard when so many have propagated untruths by guessing and making assumptions. Your courage is inspirational. I hope you, your wife and your son have a long, happy, and healthy life together sharing in your love for the sea.

 

 

Shame on Sailing Anarchy for editing any part of Bryans letter. Any edits show not only a complete lack of respect for Bryan and what he was trying to do but also for those publications you edited out. This is not about promoting a sailing website, it is about sharing a horrible experience, publically grieving, survivors guilt, and setting the record straight. Bryan sent this letter to you as well as other publications in good faith that his words would be published. He did you a favor and you in turn acted in bad faith. Do not bother justifying your actions for this egregious misconduct, "it is better to be thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."

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Thank you, Bryan.

 

fixed

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It has been many years since I've done a Farallones race....saddened to hear of the losses of great sailors and loved ones.

 

Bryan's great recounting reminded that almost every time I went around that NW corner, I could sense something eerie and instinctively visualized that "wave" in my mind. There is shallow spot (about 25-30ft deep) a ways off the corner that can trip up the bigger swells in a surprising way. Every time I wanted to ease the sheets and bear off, I waited...out of fear of my "vision". Sometimes I could see/hear boats to leeward and inside of us suddenly sheeting back in after they saw a swell just beginning to trip up in front of them in an ominous way.

 

It is a dangerous spot, and that's where the late Joakim Jonsson and I rescued Gary Helms, after he and his crew flipped their F31 in the DH race in 1999.

 

No doubt that Low Speed Chase had the bad luck to be there right when that big set came through. I can vividly see the wave that Bryan describes...reinforced by my own previous visions. Yikes, gives me chills.

 

Be careful out there.

 

Bruce

 

Thanks Bruce. That's worthy of re/cross posting on the open thread.

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Bryan,

 

I have been away from the SA forums for a while now but your story compelled me to post and to let you know that you and your entire crew are in my thoughts and I wish you and your friends and family an easy journey forward.

 

I have always believed that the sailing brother/sisterhood is akin to a tight chain stretching across our planet's oceans, lakes, sounds, bays, and rivers and that each sailor is an important part of the link. When links of this chain are lost or broken we are affected. I wish you, your friends, and family fair winds for the continuing journey and if you are ever in Annapolis please look me up so we can hoist a couple to celebrate friends who have sailed beyond our horizons.

 

Ron

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Clarity in the face of tragedy. Honesty in a time of confusion. Beautiful writing in honor of your friends. Humbling and inspiring.

 

 

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Clarity in the face of tragedy. Honesty in a time of confusion. Beautiful writing in honor of your friends. Humbling and inspiring.

 

Very well said.

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I've finally joined SA after being along time guest just to reply to this thread.

 

Absolute respect. The lessons you share are immense.

 

Definitely needs a permalink - ny FB friends should read this, sailors and non-sailors alike.

 

Mr. Chong, Thank you for taking the time and emotional energy to share this story. Our hearts are with you and yours. +1 to the poster to said you honor your crewmates by setting the record straight, also ad to the sport as a whole. When things go wrong, it's important for the rest of us to learn and reflect.

 

Editors: How about a permalink to the full story? It needs to be shared broadly.

 

Thank you.

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Clarity in the face of tragedy. Honesty in a time of confusion. Beautiful writing in honor of your friends. Humbling and inspiring.

 

Very well said.

 

Very, VERY well said.

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Any luck finding the other 4 members? I haven't heard anything about the search for them.

 

God speed friends.... We'll be toasting Low Speed Chase on the water on Friday at sunset on the Nwp-Ens race.

 

 

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Well, Scot or whatever the F_ _ _ K his name is has finally stooped to a new low. So he adds THE STORY on his website and very conveniently removes the other sailing publications that the original story from Bryan went to. Scuttlebutt, Latitude 38 and Seahorse were all listed along with SA. But Scot removed those other publication names and made readers think Bryan had sent it to only him.

 

I hope that Bryan chimes in and confirms that his original story went to FOUR PUBLICATIONS, not just SA. And thank you Bryan for the well written, absoulutely critical recap on what happened.

 

Shame on you Scot.

 

From Colorado

 

+1

 

A disappointing hijack of Bryan's original story as published intact elsewhere.

Thank you Bryan for this candid insight that might save others

Fair winds to your mates....

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I have my own Opinions of Scott but if you have an issue with something he did TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE AND MAKE A NEW THREAD... we dont need or want this GARBAGE on this threat. and Scott already said those who represent Lat 38 Seahorse and SB were totally OK with him taking them out for the Post... now STFU and GET OFF THIS THREAD.

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Bryan,

 

I know it took a lot of courage to set the record straight on your ordeal. It is frustrating to read and hear all the inaccuracies in the media. After our tragedy on WingNuts in last summers Chicago to Mac part of me just wanted time and privacy to mourn and reflect. Privacy is short lived because it is important to learn from any disaster and try to help prevent another. All of our surviving crew cooperated in telling our story. Unfortunately, every single article or report (including the US Sailing report) had inaccuracies in it. Even when the press called with "fact checkers", they still managed to get it wrong.

 

The only solution is to tell the story yourself. Thank you for doing just that. Making people aware of the importance of knowing what safety equipment works for them and how quickly things can go from good to tragic.

 

My best to you and the others.

 

Peter

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Bryan

Thank you for your spending the time to share the events of that tragic day with all of us.

Chuck Cunningham

Co-Chair of Pacific Cup Vessel Preparation and Safety at Sea Seminars

Not too late for Skippers and Crew to sign-up for the May 12 Safety at Sea Seminar at California Marine Academy.

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I've chosen to use Sailing Anarchy, Seahorse, Latitude 38, and Scuttlebutt for distributing this story because they're of a kindred spirit and were the favorites amongst the crew of Low Speed Chase and those who already know the answer to the question, "Why would you sail in the ocean on a windy day with big swells?"

 

I've also included the Marin Independent Journal and The Tiburon Ark, as they're the hometown newspapers in an area teeming with sailors. Many sailors relocate from around the world to Marin and the Tiburon Peninsula in order to live in proximity to the world's best sailing. Alan Cahill moved from Cork, Ireland to race sailboats professionally in the Bay Area and the Pacific Ocean. He was the best man in our wedding and will be dearly missed while I journey this planet.

 

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Bryan

 

My condolences on the loss of your friends.

 

My congratulations on the courageous, honest reveiw of the circumstances, and particularly the safety issues,so that others can learn from what happened. Too many people would be passing the buck and covering their backsides.

 

David

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Bryan,

 

I know it took a lot of courage to set the record straight on your ordeal. It is frustrating to read and hear all the inaccuracies in the media. After our tragedy on WingNuts in last summers Chicago to Mac part of me just wanted time and privacy to mourn and reflect. Privacy is short lived because it is important to learn from any disaster and try to help prevent another. All of our surviving crew cooperated in telling our story. Unfortunately, every single article or report (including the US Sailing report) had inaccuracies in it. Even when the press called with "fact checkers", they still managed to get it wrong.

 

The only solution is to tell the story yourself. Thank you for doing just that. Making people aware of the importance of knowing what safety equipment works for them and how quickly things can go from good to tragic.

 

My best to you and the others.

 

Peter

 

Agreed Peter

 

Bryan I'm glad you told the story for a few reasons but mainly because almost 3 years ago I too was involved in a yachting accident (Shockwave) that took lives and i didn't immediatly speak as you have. I regret that to this day. We all (crew x 15) made a pact on the night not to speak, fearing the media would twist the story. Instead what actually happened was the story got more twisted by what you yanks call "Monday quarterbacking" than if I or others had of just set the record straight from the beginning. Some people on here (SA) were incredibly insenative with their comments, try not to bite back.

As Peter above has said thanks for setting things straight, it takes balls and is increadibly painfull to rehash these events.

Sail on mate......they would want it.

Condolences to all.

Pil

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I've chosen to use Sailing Anarchy, Seahorse, Latitude 38, and Scuttlebutt for distributing this story because they're of a kindred spirit and were the favorites amongst the crew of Low Speed Chase and those who already know the answer to the question, "Why would you sail in the ocean on a windy day with big swells?"

 

I've also included the Marin Independent Journal and The Tiburon Ark, as they're the hometown newspapers in an area teeming with sailors. Many sailors relocate from around the world to Marin and the Tiburon Peninsula in order to live in proximity to the world's best sailing. Alan Cahill moved from Cork, Ireland to race sailboats professionally in the Bay Area and the Pacific Ocean. He was the best man in our wedding and will be dearly missed while I journey this planet.

 

Thanks. Editing is one thing, revisionism is something entirely else.

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I've chosen to use Sailing Anarchy, Seahorse, Latitude 38, and Scuttlebutt for distributing this story because they're of a kindred spirit and were the favorites amongst the crew of Low Speed Chase...

 

Thanks. Editing is one thing, revisionism is something entirely else.

 

I understand cutting out references to the competition in some cases, but cutting out the others before reprinting this on the mythical front page was really classless. Can't even recognize that some of the dead may have had other favorites at a time like this?

 

That's a great way to show how the sailing community pulls together. :rolleyes:

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Bryan. thanks for the story. My dad was a water safety investigator for the red cross back in the 60's, and one thing i learned tagging along with him was that these type of events are simpler and more straightforward than most people assume. Given the personal cost to/for you, telling the tale could not have been easy, but the truth of it is, you are necessary.

 

Good on you. Good on you.

 

Paul

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Thank You Bryan.

 

As I clip in this weekend you your family and your lost shipmates will be with me. We are doing a Pacific off shore race this weekend and as we turn the mark we will make our offerings.

 

Fair Winds and a Following sea to all involved in this tragedy. We are a family here in the sailing community, and have lost some brothers and sisters. Lets rally behind the ones hurting the most and save our infighting for a later date.

 

Rich

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Bryan,

 

I am inspired by your courage to recount the events of this heartbreaking and tragic accident. Your personal reflection of the loss of loved ones and friends, your passion for racing sailboats, thoughts surrounding safety and the future, as you have read here, is already having an incredibly positive influence.

 

With respect to the future Bryan, there is no doubt that you will always have five Guardian Angels sailing with you.

 

I offer my heartfelt condolances to all involved. Please know much positive energy is being sent your way.

 

Jim Z

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I've chosen to use Sailing Anarchy, Seahorse, Latitude 38, and Scuttlebutt for distributing this story because they're of a kindred spirit and were the favorites amongst the crew of Low Speed Chase and those who already know the answer to the question, "Why would you sail in the ocean on a windy day with big swells?"

 

I've also included the Marin Independent Journal and The Tiburon Ark, as they're the hometown newspapers in an area teeming with sailors.

 

Bryan, thanks so much for sharing this with the entire sailing community, including your local newspapers. I'm an inshore sailor but this sure made me think of the silliness of those times when we ventured offshore without a thought of clipping in or even wearing PFDs. Thank you.

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Bryan Chong - my Dad lived after dragging around SF Bay behind a Cal 34 with the main up and the engine on; over 2 hours holding on to the mainsheet. 40 years ago and at 82 he was there in the 'Flotilla" to honor "Low Speed Chase" and while we came back to SFYC; could not help but hear his soft words from his learned experience shared with the crew ... I grew up wearing weight belts just to point higher and beat the boys? Worked out most of my life to 'be' my Dad's foredeck; I am no hacker. Cut corners 'screamin' around, been there done that ... Put bows where no bow belongs; 114 years on the Bay between my Dad and myself. "Low Speed Chase" has changed our lives. I wore a tether for the first time on the Bay alone bringing our boat to and from the Memorial. Returned home the next morning, she was doing 9 knots and I un-tied to fix the outhaul and again to tighten the lazy jacks and each time I returned to drive and said to myself, "lessons for me to honor" ... Old salt still stuck on stupid! These are hard lessons! But know this Sunday for Opening Day on the Bay I will do "man over-board" drills before we leave the dock and I will do so with race crew as well in honor of Low Speed Chase. Thank you for taking the time to express the facts for the sailing community as well as for the 'press'. Your experience has changed the way I will sail for the rest of my life. Very gut wrenching so very sorry for your loss and all families loss ... I will never forget. Always a beginner to change that which I already knew; open to know that which I should know and do know; now differently with much honor and sorrow. Cinde Lou Delmas

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Bryan,

Thank you for sharing your story with us. It has given me many things to think about and consider.

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Apparently the news media doesn't think this is a worthy note..But a body was found in Bolinas Bay just north of the accident...It was one of the sailors on the race...God may he rest in peace...It looks like mother nature may let some of the families have closure..Let's hope she gives all of the families their loved ones...As all needs closure on their loss...Sir may you have winds at you back forever RIP.

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I would like to take this opportunity to educate OEJ, the news media, and anybody else that banters about the word "closure" when referring to grieving survivors. STOP IT. As one who has suffered through the terrible grief of losing a loved one unfairly, there never is "closure." For a family to recover the body of a lost love one may enable them to perform rituals that allow good-byes and a wee bit of comfort. But the wound survivors suffer never completely heals. "Closure" implies that one is done with their grieving, that the whole episode has been neatly packaged up, tied off, and disposed of. Wrong! The pain never goes away. I am sure that OEJ's intentions are sympathetic and good. But, please, for me, and I suspect a lot of survivors, the word "closure" creates anger that people just don't understand the eternal pain that accompanies a tragedy such as the grounding of the LSC.

 

ok, I am done venting. Rather than use the word "closure," perhaps a phrase such as, "It looks like mother nature may let some of the families retrieve their loved ones to answer one of many questions and help lessen their pain a little bit" is more appropriate.

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Apparently the news media doesn't think this is a worthy note..But a body was found in Bolinas Bay just north of the accident...It was one of the sailors on the race...

 

Where did you get that information?

 

Body found near Bodega Head ID'd as SR man

 

The body that was recovered Wednesday in the surf below Bodega Head has been identified as Brian Christopher Abel, 57, of Santa Rosa.

 

Not one of the sailors. But this was Bodega, not Bolinas.

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Bryan Chong - my Dad lived after dragging around SF Bay behind a Cal 34 with the main up and the engine on; over 2 hours holding on to the mainsheet. 40 years ago and at 82 he was there in the 'Flotilla" to honor "Low Speed Chase" and while we came back to SFYC; could not help but hear his soft words from his learned experience shared with the crew ... I grew up wearing weight belts just to point higher and beat the boys? Worked out most of my life to 'be' my Dad's foredeck; I am no hacker. Cut corners 'screamin' around, been there done that ... Put bows where no bow belongs; 114 years on the Bay between my Dad and myself. "Low Speed Chase" has changed our lives. I wore a tether for the first time on the Bay alone bringing our boat to and from the Memorial. Returned home the next morning, she was doing 9 knots and I un-tied to fix the outhaul and again to tighten the lazy jacks and each time I returned to drive and said to myself, "lessons for me to honor" ... Old salt still stuck on stupid! These are hard lessons! But know this Sunday for Opening Day on the Bay I will do "man over-board" drills before we leave the dock and I will do so with race crew as well in honor of Low Speed Chase. Thank you for taking the time to express the facts for the sailing community as well as for the 'press'. Your experience has changed the way I will sail for the rest of my life. Very gut wrenching so very sorry for your loss and all families loss ... I will never forget. Always a beginner to change that which I already knew; open to know that which I should know and do know; now differently with much honor and sorrow. Cinde Lou Delmas

 

Cinde, very sweet sentiment and very good to see you out there and appreciate the guests you took aboard too. I know you wouldn't have missed it and am glad to hear your story. Hugs, Dixie.

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1335630328[/url]' post='3690890']

I would like to take this opportunity to educate OEJ, the news media, and anybody else that banters about the word "closure" when referring to grieving survivors. STOP IT. As one who has suffered through the terrible grief of losing a loved one unfairly, there never is "closure." For a family to recover the body of a lost love one may enable them to perform rituals that allow good-byes and a wee bit of comfort. But the wound survivors suffer never completely heals. "Closure" implies that one is done with their grieving, that the whole episode has been neatly packaged up, tied off, and disposed of. Wrong! The pain never goes away. I am sure that OEJ's intentions are sympathetic and good. But, please, for me, and I suspect a lot of survivors, the word "closure" creates anger that people just don't understand the eternal pain that accompanies a tragedy such as the grounding of the LSC.

)

ok, I am done venting. Rather than use the word "closure," perhaps a phrase such as, "It looks like mother nature may let some of the families retrieve their loved ones to answer one of many questions and help lessen their pain a little bit" is more appropriate.

 

When you are found..the family can legally have the books closed..insurance paid etc.I had a very close friend that was swept off the cliffs in Santa Cruz..and was NEVER found..So you are not legally gone..And have to go to court after ( it used to be 7 years) and prove to the court that your loved one is not just missing, ran off, or what ever can fit the imagination on why your loved one isn't there...besides being in the passing...Insurance companies will not pay off as you are not legally gone.. Everything stays in the open mode..It is one of the worst things that will happen to any grieving family...Ohhh and My friend was Reverend father Calivan...the year about 1962 about the end of November...He went fishing on the cliffs and they think he was hit and washed off by a wave...No one really never has closure...but it is closure to be able to know 100%...and have the books closed...sorry ...

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1335634798[/url]' post='3690935']
1335626355[/url]' post='3690828']

Apparently the news media doesn't think this is a worthy note..But a body was found in Bolinas Bay just north of the accident...It was one of the sailors on the race...

 

Where did you get that information?

 

Body found near Bodega Head ID'd as SR man

 

The body that was recovered Wednesday in the surf below Bodega Head has been identified as Brian Christopher Abel, 57, of Santa Rosa.

 

Not one of the sailors. But this was Bodega, not Bolinas.

 

The only place I say the news was on channel 2 Friday at 10:00 ..and yes it was bodega..Thursday they came and said they had found somebody...and last night they said it had been identified as on of the crewmen that was lost.

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Apparently the news media doesn't think this is a worthy note..But a body was found in Bolinas Bay just north of the accident...It was one of the sailors on the race...

 

Where did you get that information?

 

Body found near Bodega Head ID'd as SR man

 

The body that was recovered Wednesday in the surf below Bodega Head has been identified as Brian Christopher Abel, 57, of Santa Rosa.

 

Not one of the sailors. But this was Bodega, not Bolinas.

 

The only place I say the news was on channel 2 Friday at 10:00 ..and yes it was bodega..Thursday they came and said they had found somebody...and last night they said it had been identified as on of the crewmen that was lost.

 

That's a pretty blatant error and they should be notified and a correction/apology issued in respect for the crew.

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Apparently the news media doesn't think this is a worthy note..But a body was found in Bolinas Bay just north of the accident...It was one of the sailors on the race...

 

Where did you get that information?

 

Body found near Bodega Head ID'd as SR man

 

The body that was recovered Wednesday in the surf below Bodega Head has been identified as Brian Christopher Abel, 57, of Santa Rosa.

 

Not one of the sailors. But this was Bodega, not Bolinas.

 

The only place I say the news was on channel 2 Friday at 10:00 ..and yes it was bodega..Thursday they came and said they had found somebody...and last night they said it had been identified as on of the crewmen that was lost.

 

That's a pretty blatant error and they should be notified and a correction/apology issued in respect for the crew.

 

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/sf-coroners-office-recovers-body-missing-sailor/nMkYX/

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SF coroner’s office recovers body of missing sailor

 

The San Francisco coroner has identified the body of a man found in the water as 25-year-old Jordan Fromm from Kentfield, one of the victim's of a deadly boat crash.

His body was discovered Thursday near the Farallon Islands.

Fromm was one of five sailors killed April 14 when their boat was overtaken by waves.

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Guys, at least get your stories straightened out before you argue.

Two different locations, two different people.

Okay?

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1335643589[/url]' post='3691017']

Guys, at least get your stories straightened out before you argue.

Two different locations, two different people.

Okay?

 

Just saying what the news reports..you know how they can get things screwed up...

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Am heartened to learn that young Fromm's body was recovered. The identification must have been unspeakably difficult for his parents, but at least now they can bury him and visit his grave.

 

Let us hope that the three other young sailors' bodies are recovered as well.

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Guys, at least get your stories straightened out before you argue.

Two different locations, two different people.

Okay?

 

Brilliant deduction. No need to pop a fuse, brah, it's called social media for a reason. It took the collaborative efforts of four people to reveal those two facts on this forum:

 

  • SW Sailor first reported the body found at Bodega Bay.
  • which led me to read the Press Democrat articles about it every day, including this morning when it was first reported that it was a hiker from Santa Rosa.
  • One eye Jack heard the late TV news last night about Jordan Fromm but we didn't have a citation until...
  • NoStrings provided the link to the ktvu.com article, confirming what One eye Jack heard last night.

 

P.S. And it's very uncommon, eh, to have two autopsy reports for unrelated incidents released at the same time for two people pulled from the same waters at nearly the same time?

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There will be a flag ceremony at the SFYC this am for the crew of the rescue operations. PM me for details as the club is limiting attendance due to anticipated opening day crowds. However, for those interested and affected happy to add you in. Just PM me.

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well it appears that US Ailing has exercised its independent authority and appointed the investigation body. It includes no one from the local YRA or any local persons who make local policy.

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well it appears that US Ailing has exercised its independent authority and appointed the investigation body. It includes no one from the local YRA or any local persons who make local policy.

 

But it does include sailors who have extensive experience in the San Francisco area. I know some of them and these are quality people. I highly doubt that they will do their job in a vacuum.

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well it appears that US Ailing has exercised its independent authority and appointed the investigation body. It includes no one from the local YRA or any local persons who make local policy.

 

But it does include sailors who have extensive experience in the San Francisco area. I know some of them and these are quality people. I highly doubt that they will do their job in a vacuum.

 

Geez, Sally Honey, John Craig, Kent Benedict, Chuck Hawley, and Bartz Schneider aren't local? You can't very well have the YRA/ORYA investigating their own race. There would be COI issues, and we're not looking to drink our own bathwater. We welcome an outside view of how we're doing things and look forward to seeing how their recommendations correlate with some of our own initiatives.

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well it appears that US Ailing has exercised its independent authority and appointed the investigation body. It includes no one from the local YRA or any local persons who make local policy.

 

But it does include sailors who have extensive experience in the San Francisco area. I know some of them and these are quality people. I highly doubt that they will do their job in a vacuum.

 

Geez, Sally Honey, John Craig, Kent Benedict, Chuck Hawley, and Bartz Schneider aren't local? You can't very well have the YRA/ORYA investigating their own race. There would be COI issues, and we're not looking to drink our own bathwater. We welcome an outside view of how we're doing things and look forward to seeing how their recommendations correlate with some of our own initiatives.

Agreed. One of them even spoke at a recent Farallones race (challenge?) skippers meeting.

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What did he cover at the DH Farallones skippers meeting, out of curiosity? I thought it was AC stuff, unrelated to the race, but that was only hearsay and you know where that gets ya. rolleyes.gif

 

EDIT: Never mind, found it:

 

EVENTS

Skippers' meeting, Wednesday March 28, 2012 7:30 p.m. at the Oakland Yacht Club. All skippers are requested to attend. Any changes in starting procedures, course limits, division placement, etc., will be announced at this meeting. Each skipper is responsible for acquiring information of such changes. Participation mementos for skipper and crew will be available at the Skipper’s meeting and Trophy presentation.

 

 

Agenda:

 

Doors open at 5:30 pm OYC

 

Final Race Entries, GPS Download / replay assistance from BAMA

 

7:30 pm John Craig speaks on AC venue

 

Next, Lt. Cmndr DesaRae Janszen speaks on AC Venue, Offshore Risks, What to expect if you need help - comments by one of the survivors who had a basket ride.

 

 

Skippers Meeting - changes in SI, Fleet assignments, Q&A

 

 

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What did he cover at the DH Farallones skippers meeting, out of curiosity? I thought it was AC stuff, unrelated to the race, but that was only hearsay and you know where that gets ya. rolleyes.gif

 

EDIT: Never mind, found it:

 

EVENTS

Skippers' meeting, Wednesday March 28, 2012 7:30 p.m. at the Oakland Yacht Club. All skippers are requested to attend. Any changes in starting procedures, course limits, division placement, etc., will be announced at this meeting. Each skipper is responsible for acquiring information of such changes. Participation mementos for skipper and crew will be available at the Skipper's meeting and Trophy presentation.

 

 

Agenda:

 

Doors open at 5:30 pm OYC

 

Final Race Entries, GPS Download / replay assistance from BAMA

 

7:30 pm John Craig speaks on AC venue

 

Next, Lt. Cmndr DesaRae Janszen speaks on AC Venue, Offshore Risks, What to expect if you need help - comments by one of the survivors who had a basket ride.

 

 

Skippers Meeting - changes in SI, Fleet assignments, Q&A

 

Might be better in the other thread? It was relevant for non AC reasons too

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But it does include sailors who have extensive experience in the San Francisco area. I know some of them and these are quality people. I highly doubt that they will do their job in a vacuum.

 

Geez, Sally Honey, John Craig, Kent Benedict, Chuck Hawley, and Bartz Schneider aren't local? You can't very well have the YRA/ORYA investigating their own race. There would be COI issues, and we're not looking to drink our own bathwater. We welcome an outside view of how we're doing things and look forward to seeing how their recommendations correlate with some of our own initiatives.

Agreed. One of them even spoke at a recent Farallones race (challenge?) skippers meeting.

 

I thought hmm, I think JC spoke and what on? As it wasn't mentioned in your post...I said....

 

What did he cover at the DH Farallones skippers meeting, out of curiosity? I thought it was AC stuff, unrelated to the race, but that was only hearsay and you know where that gets ya.

 

EDIT: Never mind, found it:

 

EVENTS

Skippers' meeting, Wednesday March 28, 2012 7:30 p.m. at the Oakland Yacht Club. All skippers are requested to attend. Any changes in starting procedures, course limits, division placement, etc., will be announced at this meeting. Each skipper is responsible for acquiring information of such changes. Participation mementos for skipper and crew will be available at the Skipper's meeting and Trophy presentation.

 

 

Agenda:

 

Doors open at 5:30 pm OYC

 

Final Race Entries, GPS Download / replay assistance from BAMA

 

7:30 pm John Craig speaks on AC venue

 

Next, Lt. Cmndr DesaRae Janszen speaks on AC Venue, Offshore Risks, What to expect if you need help - comments by one of the survivors who had a basket ride.

 

 

Skippers Meeting - changes in SI, Fleet assignments, Q&A

 

Might be better in the other thread? It was relevant for non AC reasons too

 

Yes, feel free - it was something you'd brought to light here and made me wonder, especially given the late hour of the meeting, which I understand was done to accomodate the distance for some skippers. Thanks Bob.

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Does anyone have a link to the full article written by Bryan? I've been on vacation and now can't find it in the archives or via Google... The first entry in this story links back to SA Page one...

 

Read some excepts that ya'll have quoted from and would like to now read the full version.

 

Thanks in advance...

 

jT

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Does anyone have a link to the full article written by Bryan? I've been on vacation and now can't find it in the archives or via Google... The first entry in this story links back to SA Page one...

 

Read some excepts that ya'll have quoted from and would like to now read the full version.

 

Thanks in advance...

 

jT

Here's the LINK

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Yeah! A helicopter magazine called "Vertical".

 

Who'da thunk?

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Bryan, my heart goes to you and now in light of the lawsuit you are facing I wish to extend my support to you. Although I can't even start to understand what the loss of your own child will do to a parent I find the lawsuit despicable. We are all adults and when we get on a boat we all know the risk we are taking. Each of us when jump over the that safety/land line understands that it is more than just a symbolic gesture, and now we place ourselves at the mercy of the environment. I am not condoning poor seamanship or poor safety practices, as boat owners most us take it very seriously, but we all take risks when we jump over the line and we are (or should be) all responsible for assessing these risk and decide what to do. I can't offer you much on monetary support but I would love to help in any way I can. My heart and prayers go to you, your crew and all the families that are involved in this tragedy. I hope that we can all help you to go through this new twisted turn in your path.

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Bryan, my heart goes to you and now in light of the lawsuit you are facing I wish to extend my support to you. Although I can't even start to understand what the loss of your own child will do to a parent I find the lawsuit despicable. We are all adults and when we get on a boat we all know the risk we are taking. Each of us when jump over the that safety/land line understands that it is more than just a symbolic gesture, and now we place ourselves at the mercy of the environment. I am not condoning poor seamanship or poor safety practices, as boat owners most us take it very seriously, but we all take risks when we jump over the line and we are (or should be) all responsible for assessing these risk and decide what to do. I can't offer you much on monetary support but I would love to help in any way I can. My heart and prayers go to you, your crew and all the families that are involved in this tragedy. I hope that we can all help you to go through this new twisted turn in your path.

 

He's not being sued

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