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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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re-psycled

3 dead in N2E

2,561 posts in this topic

 

Putting the serious nature of what occurred aside, you do point out a marketing spinmaster who needs to have their license taken away. I doubt the committee put this type of spin on their report. I'll bet their report was all business like. But some marketing genius in charge of press releases for U.S. Sailing was trying to break an attention grabbing headline - - - - - - - and failed! Looking at the publicly available 2007 990 Tax Return of U.S. Sailing, the Marketing Director was only paid $126,210 to imagine up this headline. What do you want for that type of money, genius?

 

I'll take the job for $125K on an independent contractor basis

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Just updated the 990 to the 2010 return, some interesting data:

 

An independent contractor by the name of "The Latimer Group, LLC" (owned by Dean Brenner) was paid $125,000 for "Speaker Fees & Chair Olympic Sailing Committee". Later it says "Funding of professional position as chair of the Olympic Sailing Committee in fulfillment of a restricted donation requirement."

 

For the longest time, committee chairs were volunteers. From the Olympic sailors seat, I wonder if they like have a "leader" who is paid $125,000 to administrate to them, or whether they thing the money is better spent supporting them with equipment, travel, coaching, etc?

 

Sorry some dude, in 2010 the marketing position had dropped to $114,266 in total compensation, based on a 37.50 hour work week.

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PORTSMOUTH, R.I. (June 12, 2012) - A US Sailing Independent Review Panel has come to a conclusion regarding the cause of accident during the 2012 Newport to Ensenada Race that resulted in the deaths of four sailors on April 28. Aegean, a 37-foot Hunter 376 sailboat, was destroyed during the race a few miles offshore near Mexico’s Coronado Islands. Following extensive research, the Panel is confident that a grounding on North Coronado Island is the cause of accident.

 

The Panel gathered information from race organizers, collected data from the Aegean’s track during the Race, and met with the US Coast Guard San Diego Sector’s investigation team. The Panel came to a conclusion after reviewing the evidence that was assembled, including material from the tracking device on board Aegean, and information provided by race organizers of the Newport Ocean Sailing Association. The Panel will continue their efforts to document the accident, draw conclusions, share the lessons learned and offer recommendations to the sailing community. A full report from US Sailing is expected by July.

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PORTSMOUTH, R.I. (June 12, 2012) - A US Sailing Independent Review Panel has come to a conclusion regarding the cause of accident during the 2012 Newport to Ensenada Race that resulted in the deaths of four sailors on April 28. Aegean, a 37-foot Hunter 376 sailboat, was destroyed during the race a few miles offshore near Mexico's Coronado Islands. Following extensive research, the Panel is confident that a grounding on North Coronado Island is the cause of accident.

 

The Panel gathered information from race organizers, collected data from the Aegean's track during the Race, and met with the US Coast Guard San Diego Sector's investigation team. The Panel came to a conclusion after reviewing the evidence that was assembled, including material from the tracking device on board Aegean, and information provided by race organizers of the Newport Ocean Sailing Association. The Panel will continue their efforts to document the accident, draw conclusions, share the lessons learned and offer recommendations to the sailing community. A full report from US Sailing is expected by July.

 

though / intent - might be a need to dumb thing down for those who are forced to join

 

 

 

 

Not my Thought's Jus Sayin

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By Lauren WilliamsJune 12, 2012 | 7:32 p.m.

 

A sailboat competing in the annual Newport to Ensenada Yacht Race likely ran aground before it splintered and sank, according to an official report released Tuesday.

 

...

 

The panel's five members also reviewed the Aegean's GPS device to understand the vessel's course that night, said U.S. Sailing spokesman Jake Fish. Race organizers and Coast Guard investigators in San Diego were also consulted.

 

"There is no evidence that supports any other conclusion," Fish said.

 

A full report on the accident is expected by the end of July.

 

The Coast Guard's investigation into the accident remains open.

 

The wreck was the first fatal accident in the race's 65-year history.

 

lauren.williams@latimes.com

 

Twitter: @lawilliams30

 

 

Did I miss this? Somehow they found the GPS from the boat? But not any of the boat?

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also reviewed the Aegean's GPS device

 

They are referring to the SPOT tracker on board the Aegean.

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By Lauren WilliamsJune 12, 2012 | 7:32 p.m.

 

A sailboat competing in the annual Newport to Ensenada Yacht Race likely ran aground before it splintered and sank, according to an official report released Tuesday.

 

...

 

The panel's five members also reviewed the Aegean's GPS device to understand the vessel's course that night, said U.S. Sailing spokesman Jake Fish. Race organizers and Coast Guard investigators in San Diego were also consulted.

 

"There is no evidence that supports any other conclusion," Fish said.

 

A full report on the accident is expected by the end of July.

 

The Coast Guard's investigation into the accident remains open.

 

The wreck was the first fatal accident in the race's 65-year history.

 

lauren.williams@latimes.com

 

Twitter: @lawilliams30

 

 

Did I miss this? Somehow they found the GPS from the boat? But not any of the boat?

 

That news item was obviously written by a journalist - who probably does not know what a GPS device is.

 

I'll ask again - have any parts of the boat been found on the sea floor yet?

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I'll ask again - have any parts of the boat been found on the sea floor yet?

Nothing that I've seen reported.

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I'll ask again - have any parts of the boat been found on the sea floor yet?

Nothing that I've seen reported.

 

 

Any clue why no one has done an exploratory dive in the last few weeks? I'm finding this rather odd, given how many people/families/organizations/insurance companies may be involved in this mess. And also given the fact that the accident site is so close to San Diego, a place with a whole lotta of talent & tools available to do this....

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I'll ask again - have any parts of the boat been found on the sea floor yet?

Nothing that I've seen reported.

 

 

Any clue why no one has done an exploratory dive in the last few weeks? I'm finding this rather odd, given how many people/families/organizations/insurance companies may be involved in this mess. And also given the fact that the accident site is so close to San Diego, a place with a whole lotta of talent & tools available to do this....

 

I'v been told br Dive Charter guys that the tip of the North Island is avoided like the Plague

 

That said if the USCG is ummmmmmmm wondering anything

 

there is No shortage of able ways to go to every inch of the area "Human - Mammal - Robotic And I'll bet "Clearly from Above through any surf etc

 

Not that anyone would say they were there in Mex waters wink.gif

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Yeah, but we're in summer now. No huge storms from the Russians, maybe a bit of west stuff from Hawaii and the south swells are so easy to predict that even Helen Keller could paddle out safely.....

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Yeah, but we're in summer now. No huge storms from the Russians, maybe a bit of west stuff from Hawaii and the south swells are so easy to predict that even Helen Keller could paddle out safely.....

 

more to do w currents/surge and the layout under water rather than a Surf related issue

 

BUT Sitll send a damn ROV ore DRONE-SUB or whatever

 

HAY Run an add for PIX on the TJ Creagslist

 

Boothy you still have contact w El M. ???? ohmy.gif

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I remember early on in this thread that a very experienced SAR diver searched an area of the rock only to find nothing........

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I remember early on in this thread that a very experienced SAR diver searched an area of the rock only to find nothing........

 

do a search and post the post

 

I Don't think so

 

I'll give ya 2 weeks to find something not from a tool posting on the day they joined and no follow up

 

No really take your time cool.gif

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Say, Chris Welsh and Richard Branson have a deep-sea submarine and support vessel just sitting idle, taking up space in Newport Beach.

 

I for one think it would be a magnificent gesture to explore the north area of North Coronado Island!

 

IMG_5623.jpg

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Say, Chris Welsh and Richard Branson have a deep-sea submarine and support vessel just sitting idle, taking up space in Newport Beach.

 

I for one think it would be a magnificent gesture to explore the north area of North Coronado Island!

 

IMG_5623.jpg

 

 

Call that fuker up, stat!...

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I'll ask again - have any parts of the boat been found on the sea floor yet?

Nothing that I've seen reported.

 

Isn't it a tad strange that the US CC wouldn't ask for permission to explore that area? Usually unexplained deaths are investigated.

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May 07 0700-1000hrs Attached Debris found within 10-20 meters of Aegean's last transponded SPOT GPS position. Debris not positively identified as from Aegean but seems likely given location/time/condition. Report to USGS and others. We plan to return to site next few days to search for larger pieces (keel-engine compartment) that may be close by.

post-61814-022853600 1339769684_thumb.jpg

post-61814-003819000 1339769702_thumb.jpg

post-61814-080155200 1339769713_thumb.jpg

post-61814-022497000 1339769728_thumb.jpg

post-61814-073612600 1339769773_thumb.jpg

post-61814-012297300 1339769795_thumb.jpg

post-61814-062750100 1339769810_thumb.jpg

post-61814-020902000 1339769831_thumb.jpg

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Recon May 07 0700. See prev posts (attached JPEGs) See also following reply

 

 

Strong work!

 

Would you have any idea as to why our CC hasn't conducted a similar survey of the area? These are unexplained deaths and it seems like an investigation of some sort should be conducted to try and ascertain the cause.

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Thank you, Carcharodon megalodon.

 

+2

 

Talk is cheep in these halls

 

Please share what you can

 

if you are going back and would like some additional Photos / Video I'd like to go along !!!!!!!!!!!

 

About time some one got to the bottom of this case

 

 

 

This thread would make a very interesting 100 post story cool.gif

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Recon May 07 0700. See prev posts (attached JPEGs) See also following reply

 

 

Strong work!

 

Would you have any idea as to why our CC hasn't conducted a similar survey of the area? These are unexplained deaths and it seems like an investigation of some sort should be conducted to try and ascertain the cause.

 

Far from unexplained: They have the bodies. They have the Spot track. They know where they hit the island. They have the USSailing inquiry. There are no witnesses or survivors or "black boxes. I expect they have done toxicology screens on the crew. The debris will tell them nothing.

 

 

 

What do you possibly think would be learned that would be valuable to the community at large, and at what cost?

 

 

Don't fall asleep on watch? Don't zoom out too far when plotting a GPS course?

 

 

 

 

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Recon May 07 0700. See prev posts (attached JPEGs) See also following reply

 

 

Strong work!

 

Would you have any idea as to why our CC hasn't conducted a similar survey of the area? These are unexplained deaths and it seems like an investigation of some sort should be conducted to try and ascertain the cause.

 

Far from unexplained: They have the bodies. They have the Spot track. They know where they hit the island. They have the USSailing inquiry. There are no witnesses or survivors or "black boxes. I expect they have done toxicology screens on the crew. The debris will tell them nothing.

 

 

 

What do you possibly think would be learned that would be valuable to the community at large, and at what cost?

 

 

Don't fall asleep on watch? Don't zoom out too far when plotting a GPS course?

 

Why do you think they collect every piece of an aircraft that has crashed & painstakingly reconstruct the remains at great expense?

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Recon May 07 0700. See prev posts (attached JPEGs) See also following reply

 

 

Strong work!

Would you have any idea as to why our CC hasn't conducted a similar survey of the area? These are unexplained deaths and it seems like an investigation of some sort should be conducted to try and ascertain the cause.

 

Far from unexplained: They have the bodies. They have the Spot track. They know where they hit the island. They have the USSailing inquiry. There are no witnesses or survivors or "black boxes. I expect they have done toxicology screens on the crew. The debris will tell them nothing.

 

 

 

What do you possibly think would be learned that would be valuable to the community at large, and at what cost?

 

 

Don't fall asleep on watch? Don't zoom out too far when plotting a GPS course?

 

 

 

 

 

May 07 0700-1000hrs Attached Debris found within 10-20 meters of Aegean's last transponded SPOT GPS position. Debris not positively identified as from Aegean but seems likely given location/time/condition. Report to USGS and others. We plan to return to site next few days to search for larger pieces (keel-engine compartment) that may be close by.

 

Carcharodon megalodon found the proof and did report the find to the USCG. They believed him. Now the CG report needs to be published.

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Given that the wreck is in Mexican waters, are there likely to be juristriction issues with the CG going there and investigating & recovering parts of the boat?

 

Also, do the Mexican authorities have the infrastruture in or near the area to recover anything?

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Given that the wreck is in Mexican waters, are there likely to be juristriction issues with the CG going there and investigating & recovering parts of the boat?

 

Also, do the Mexican authorities have the infrastruture in or near the area to recover anything?

 

YES They Do

 

And have a Very Bad Rep for recovering any expensive equipment brought into MEX (by Air, Land or Sea)

 

You'll get to keep your stuff - But an endless stream of people/Agencies shall keep showing up for MORE MONEY / MORE MONEY

 

Now Sum SEALS could go have their way - Recover/Document Everything and call it training

 

But we still wouldn't know

 

 

Carcharodon megalodon + Once again THANK YOU for the PIX & 1st person info !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Recon May 07 0700. See prev posts (attached JPEGs) See also following reply

 

 

Strong work!

 

Would you have any idea as to why our CC hasn't conducted a similar survey of the area? These are unexplained deaths and it seems like an investigation of some sort should be conducted to try and ascertain the cause.

 

Far from unexplained: They have the bodies. They have the Spot track. They know where they hit the island. They have the USSailing inquiry. There are no witnesses or survivors or "black boxes. I expect they have done toxicology screens on the crew. The debris will tell them nothing.

 

 

 

What do you possibly think would be learned that would be valuable to the community at large, and at what cost?

 

 

Don't fall asleep on watch? Don't zoom out too far when plotting a GPS course?

 

What could be possibly learned?

 

Well, one could find evidence as to whether or not an explosion was involved.

 

One could also determine whether or not there was a collision with, say, a drug runner.

 

Both would be good to know.

 

And your next question is.....?

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Apparently they issued an emergency "call" via the spot tracker - this should be a lesson to those who are willing to bet their lives on a cheap distress call solution. An EPIRB distress call would at least have gotten through to the CG a lot faster.

 

 

From Practical Sailor:

 

 

 

 

Aegean SPOT Distress Signal Details Emerge

Posted by Darrell Nicholson at 01:54PM - Comments: (1)

 

June 19, 2012

 

If you recently bought a SPOT Connect for its distress calling capability, or are looking at similar satellite messaging devices such as the SPOT Messenger, DeLorme InReach, or Briartek Cerberus, you'll want to read our upcoming report on the tragic April 28 accident involving the Hunter 376 Aegean during the Newport to Ensenada Race.

 

 

 

spotblog.jpgPS looked at the Spot Connect (bottom) and the Cerberus tracking and messaging system (top) for a future article.

 

 

When we first reviewed the SPOT Messenger, we raised concerns about introducing a private distress monitoring service into the search-and-rescue equation. Unlike a 406 EPIRB or Personal Locator Beacon (PLB), the SPOT “SOS" distress signal is not part of the Global Maritime Distress Safety System (GMDSS) that relays distress signals directly to search-and-rescue agencies such as the U.S. Coast Guard. The SPOT signal goes to GEOS Alliance, a monitoring service based in Houston, Texas, which follows its own response protocol.

 

According to the SPOT website, if a distress call is made using the SOS function on a SPOT device, GEOS Alliance’s Emergency Response Center “notifies the appropriate emergency responders based on your GPS location and personal information." In case the SPOT cannot acquire its location from the GPS network, “it will still attempt to send a distress signal – without exact location – to GEOS, which will still notify your contacts of the signal and continue to monitor the network for further messages.”

 

While reading about the Aegean accident, in which four sailors died when their boat reportedly sailed into rocky Coronado Island sometime around 1:30 a.m. on April 28, I began to wonder: What would happen if a SPOT distress alert had no position, but the SPOT's approximate location was known through tracking data? And what would happen if the SPOT's track clearly indicated danger—say, a sailboat plowing into rocky island off the coast of Mexico?

 

Would that then merit a call to the Coast Guard?

 

Apparently not.

 

Sometime around 1:30 a.m. on April 28, the SPOT device owned by Theo Mavromatis, the registered skipper of the Aegean, sent out a distress signal that was received by GEOS Alliance. According to one person I spoke with who is familiar with the incident, “there is no question that this was a distress signal sent by a person.”

 

Although the distress signal had no position data, Mavromatis had programmed the device to report his position every 10 minutes so that family could track the boat. Shortly after the distress signal went out, Mavromatis' wife, Loren, received a phone call from GEOS Alliance. She was asleep, so the report of the distress signal from her husband’s SPOT went to voicemail. For several hours after that, it appears that there was no effort made by the monitoring agency to contact the U.S. Coast Guard or to confirm the distress alert, even though boat’s track clearly indicated trouble.

 

The Coast Guard search for Aegean's crew did not begin until more than eight hours later, after fellow racers came across debris from the wrecked Hunter and contacted the U.S. Coast Guard. Initially, it was thought a ship had collided with the boat, but when the track data surfaced later, the grounding on Coronado seemed the most likely explanation.

 

Lead investigator Lt. Bill Fitzgerald of U.S. Coast Guard Sector San Diego could not offer more details on the timeline of the distress call or the response, citing the ongoing investigation. He said the USCG's final report would be completed within two to six weeks.

 

Based on what is known at this stage, it seems clear that GEOS Alliance needs to closely examine how the Aegean distress call was handled, and how its existing response protocol might be improved. A distress call was made, and even without the boat's precise position, the Aegean's freight-train track toward Coronado Island spelled trouble, and its last known position would have been helpful to a search-and-rescue effort.

 

I'm disappointed that SPOT, GEOS Alliance, and the two groups investigating the accident—U.S. Coast Guard and a US Sailing panel, which recently used the SPOT data to conclude that the accident was caused by a grounding—have delayed releasing the apparently well-documented details surrounding the Aegean distress call. SPOT Messengers and similar satellite-based messenging devices are getting snatched up like iPads this summer, and while bloggers blather about the marvels of the new technology, I suspect many buyers don't have a clear understanding of how they work. I don't want to dissuade someone from buying something that might one day save their life, nor discount the advantages of two-way communication that some of the newer devices offer, but knowing what can go wrong with these gadgets is just as important as knowing what can go right.

 

Several people have reminded me that the SPOT Messengers and similar devices have already saved many lives. They also tell me that Aegean's distress call delay appears to be an isolated incident. Lt. Fitzgerald said that he was unaware of any prior cases, at least in his sector, in which "the distress signal was not responded to in a timely manner by the third-party monitoring service.”

 

The "official" distress alert options like 406 EPIRBs have problems, too. In our article “What is the Best Backup for a 406 EPIRB?” we reported how clerical errors in the 406 EPIRB registration process nearly resulted in one sailor's distress signal being ignored. Neverthless, a GPS-enabled 406 EPIRB is still Practical Sailor's first choice for satellite-based distress signaling. If you use a SPOT or a similar device, it should be a backup. In either case, boaters need to be certain that their registration data (boat name, point of contact information, etc.) is up to date, and that the owner and point of contact are well informed about what they should do in the event of a distress signal.

 

Perhaps the best lesson in all of this is that any electronic distress beacon should be regarded as truly a last resort—and an imperfect one at that.

 

 

 

 

Apparently they issued an emergency "call" via the spot tracker - this should be a lesson to those who are willing to bet their lives on a cheap distress call solution. An EPIRB distress call would at least have gotten through to the CG a lot faster.

 

 

From Practical Sailor:

 

 

 

 

Aegean SPOT Distress Signal Details Emerge

Posted by Darrell Nicholson at 01:54PM - Comments: (1)

 

June 19, 2012

 

If you recently bought a SPOT Connect for its distress calling capability, or are looking at similar satellite messaging devices such as the SPOT Messenger, DeLorme InReach, or Briartek Cerberus, you'll want to read our upcoming report on the tragic April 28 accident involving the Hunter 376 Aegean during the Newport to Ensenada Race.

 

 

 

spotblog.jpgPS looked at the Spot Connect (bottom) and the Cerberus tracking and messaging system (top) for a future article.

 

 

When we first reviewed the SPOT Messenger, we raised concerns about introducing a private distress monitoring service into the search-and-rescue equation. Unlike a 406 EPIRB or Personal Locator Beacon (PLB), the SPOT “SOS" distress signal is not part of the Global Maritime Distress Safety System (GMDSS) that relays distress signals directly to search-and-rescue agencies such as the U.S. Coast Guard. The SPOT signal goes to GEOS Alliance, a monitoring service based in Houston, Texas, which follows its own response protocol.

 

According to the SPOT website, if a distress call is made using the SOS function on a SPOT device, GEOS Alliance’s Emergency Response Center “notifies the appropriate emergency responders based on your GPS location and personal information." In case the SPOT cannot acquire its location from the GPS network, “it will still attempt to send a distress signal – without exact location – to GEOS, which will still notify your contacts of the signal and continue to monitor the network for further messages.”

 

While reading about the Aegean accident, in which four sailors died when their boat reportedly sailed into rocky Coronado Island sometime around 1:30 a.m. on April 28, I began to wonder: What would happen if a SPOT distress alert had no position, but the SPOT's approximate location was known through tracking data? And what would happen if the SPOT's track clearly indicated danger—say, a sailboat plowing into rocky island off the coast of Mexico?

 

Would that then merit a call to the Coast Guard?

 

Apparently not.

 

Sometime around 1:30 a.m. on April 28, the SPOT device owned by Theo Mavromatis, the registered skipper of the Aegean, sent out a distress signal that was received by GEOS Alliance. According to one person I spoke with who is familiar with the incident, “there is no question that this was a distress signal sent by a person.”

 

Although the distress signal had no position data, Mavromatis had programmed the device to report his position every 10 minutes so that family could track the boat. Shortly after the distress signal went out, Mavromatis' wife, Loren, received a phone call from GEOS Alliance. She was asleep, so the report of the distress signal from her husband’s SPOT went to voicemail. For several hours after that, it appears that there was no effort made by the monitoring agency to contact the U.S. Coast Guard or to confirm the distress alert, even though boat’s track clearly indicated trouble.

 

The Coast Guard search for Aegean's crew did not begin until more than eight hours later, after fellow racers came across debris from the wrecked Hunter and contacted the U.S. Coast Guard. Initially, it was thought a ship had collided with the boat, but when the track data surfaced later, the grounding on Coronado seemed the most likely explanation.

 

Lead investigator Lt. Bill Fitzgerald of U.S. Coast Guard Sector San Diego could not offer more details on the timeline of the distress call or the response, citing the ongoing investigation. He said the USCG's final report would be completed within two to six weeks.

 

Based on what is known at this stage, it seems clear that GEOS Alliance needs to closely examine how the Aegean distress call was handled, and how its existing response protocol might be improved. A distress call was made, and even without the boat's precise position, the Aegean's freight-train track toward Coronado Island spelled trouble, and its last known position would have been helpful to a search-and-rescue effort.

 

I'm disappointed that SPOT, GEOS Alliance, and the two groups investigating the accident—U.S. Coast Guard and a US Sailing panel, which recently used the SPOT data to conclude that the accident was caused by a grounding—have delayed releasing the apparently well-documented details surrounding the Aegean distress call. SPOT Messengers and similar satellite-based messenging devices are getting snatched up like iPads this summer, and while bloggers blather about the marvels of the new technology, I suspect many buyers don't have a clear understanding of how they work. I don't want to dissuade someone from buying something that might one day save their life, nor discount the advantages of two-way communication that some of the newer devices offer, but knowing what can go wrong with these gadgets is just as important as knowing what can go right.

 

Several people have reminded me that the SPOT Messengers and similar devices have already saved many lives. They also tell me that Aegean's distress call delay appears to be an isolated incident. Lt. Fitzgerald said that he was unaware of any prior cases, at least in his sector, in which "the distress signal was not responded to in a timely manner by the third-party monitoring service.”

 

The "official" distress alert options like 406 EPIRBs have problems, too. In our article “What is the Best Backup for a 406 EPIRB?” we reported how clerical errors in the 406 EPIRB registration process nearly resulted in one sailor's distress signal being ignored. Neverthless, a GPS-enabled 406 EPIRB is still Practical Sailor's first choice for satellite-based distress signaling. If you use a SPOT or a similar device, it should be a backup. In either case, boaters need to be certain that their registration data (boat name, point of contact information, etc.) is up to date, and that the owner and point of contact are well informed about what they should do in the event of a distress signal.

 

Perhaps the best lesson in all of this is that any electronic distress beacon should be regarded as truly a last resort—and an imperfect one at that.

 

 

 

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Why is this just now becoming known?

 

There have been no previous mentions of a distress signal in any media, or from Mavromatis' wife, or any other sourse.

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Apparently they issued an emergency "call" via the spot tracker - this should be a lesson to those who are willing to bet their lives on a cheap distress call solution. An EPIRB distress call would at least have gotten through to the CG a lot faster.

 

 

From Practical Sailor:

 

 

 

 

Aegean SPOT Distress Signal Details Emerge

Posted by Darrell Nicholson at 01:54PM - Comments: (1)

 

June 19, 2012

 

If you recently bought a SPOT Connect for its distress calling capability, or are looking at similar satellite messaging devices such as the SPOT Messenger, DeLorme InReach, or Briartek Cerberus, you'll want to read our upcoming report on the tragic April 28 accident involving the Hunter 376 Aegean during the Newport to Ensenada Race.

 

 

 

spotblog.jpgPS looked at the Spot Connect (bottom) and the Cerberus tracking and messaging system (top) for a future article.

 

 

When we first reviewed the SPOT Messenger, we raised concerns about introducing a private distress monitoring service into the search-and-rescue equation. Unlike a 406 EPIRB or Personal Locator Beacon (PLB), the SPOT “SOS" distress signal is not part of the Global Maritime Distress Safety System (GMDSS) that relays distress signals directly to search-and-rescue agencies such as the U.S. Coast Guard. The SPOT signal goes to GEOS Alliance, a monitoring service based in Houston, Texas, which follows its own response protocol.

 

According to the SPOT website, if a distress call is made using the SOS function on a SPOT device, GEOS Alliance’s Emergency Response Center “notifies the appropriate emergency responders based on your GPS location and personal information." In case the SPOT cannot acquire its location from the GPS network, “it will still attempt to send a distress signal – without exact location – to GEOS, which will still notify your contacts of the signal and continue to monitor the network for further messages.”

 

While reading about the Aegean accident, in which four sailors died when their boat reportedly sailed into rocky Coronado Island sometime around 1:30 a.m. on April 28, I began to wonder: What would happen if a SPOT distress alert had no position, but the SPOT's approximate location was known through tracking data? And what would happen if the SPOT's track clearly indicated danger—say, a sailboat plowing into rocky island off the coast of Mexico?

 

Would that then merit a call to the Coast Guard?

 

Apparently not.

 

Sometime around 1:30 a.m. on April 28, the SPOT device owned by Theo Mavromatis, the registered skipper of the Aegean, sent out a distress signal that was received by GEOS Alliance. According to one person I spoke with who is familiar with the incident, “there is no question that this was a distress signal sent by a person.”

 

Although the distress signal had no position data, Mavromatis had programmed the device to report his position every 10 minutes so that family could track the boat. Shortly after the distress signal went out, Mavromatis' wife, Loren, received a phone call from GEOS Alliance. She was asleep, so the report of the distress signal from her husband’s SPOT went to voicemail. For several hours after that, it appears that there was no effort made by the monitoring agency to contact the U.S. Coast Guard or to confirm the distress alert, even though boat’s track clearly indicated trouble.

 

The Coast Guard search for Aegean's crew did not begin until more than eight hours later, after fellow racers came across debris from the wrecked Hunter and contacted the U.S. Coast Guard. Initially, it was thought a ship had collided with the boat, but when the track data surfaced later, the grounding on Coronado seemed the most likely explanation.

 

Lead investigator Lt. Bill Fitzgerald of U.S. Coast Guard Sector San Diego could not offer more details on the timeline of the distress call or the response, citing the ongoing investigation. He said the USCG's final report would be completed within two to six weeks.

 

Based on what is known at this stage, it seems clear that GEOS Alliance needs to closely examine how the Aegean distress call was handled, and how its existing response protocol might be improved. A distress call was made, and even without the boat's precise position, the Aegean's freight-train track toward Coronado Island spelled trouble, and its last known position would have been helpful to a search-and-rescue effort.

 

I'm disappointed that SPOT, GEOS Alliance, and the two groups investigating the accident—U.S. Coast Guard and a US Sailing panel, which recently used the SPOT data to conclude that the accident was caused by a grounding—have delayed releasing the apparently well-documented details surrounding the Aegean distress call. SPOT Messengers and similar satellite-based messenging devices are getting snatched up like iPads this summer, and while bloggers blather about the marvels of the new technology, I suspect many buyers don't have a clear understanding of how they work. I don't want to dissuade someone from buying something that might one day save their life, nor discount the advantages of two-way communication that some of the newer devices offer, but knowing what can go wrong with these gadgets is just as important as knowing what can go right.

 

Several people have reminded me that the SPOT Messengers and similar devices have already saved many lives. They also tell me that Aegean's distress call delay appears to be an isolated incident. Lt. Fitzgerald said that he was unaware of any prior cases, at least in his sector, in which "the distress signal was not responded to in a timely manner by the third-party monitoring service.”

 

The "official" distress alert options like 406 EPIRBs have problems, too. In our article “What is the Best Backup for a 406 EPIRB?” we reported how clerical errors in the 406 EPIRB registration process nearly resulted in one sailor's distress signal being ignored. Neverthless, a GPS-enabled 406 EPIRB is still Practical Sailor's first choice for satellite-based distress signaling. If you use a SPOT or a similar device, it should be a backup. In either case, boaters need to be certain that their registration data (boat name, point of contact information, etc.) is up to date, and that the owner and point of contact are well informed about what they should do in the event of a distress signal.

 

Perhaps the best lesson in all of this is that any electronic distress beacon should be regarded as truly a last resort—and an imperfect one at that.

 

 

 

 

Apparently they issued an emergency "call" via the spot tracker - this should be a lesson to those who are willing to bet their lives on a cheap distress call solution. An EPIRB distress call would at least have gotten through to the CG a lot faster.

 

 

From Practical Sailor:

 

 

 

 

Aegean SPOT Distress Signal Details Emerge

Posted by Darrell Nicholson at 01:54PM - Comments: (1)

 

June 19, 2012

 

If you recently bought a SPOT Connect for its distress calling capability, or are looking at similar satellite messaging devices such as the SPOT Messenger, DeLorme InReach, or Briartek Cerberus, you'll want to read our upcoming report on the tragic April 28 accident involving the Hunter 376 Aegean during the Newport to Ensenada Race.

 

 

 

spotblog.jpgPS looked at the Spot Connect (bottom) and the Cerberus tracking and messaging system (top) for a future article.

 

 

When we first reviewed the SPOT Messenger, we raised concerns about introducing a private distress monitoring service into the search-and-rescue equation. Unlike a 406 EPIRB or Personal Locator Beacon (PLB), the SPOT “SOS" distress signal is not part of the Global Maritime Distress Safety System (GMDSS) that relays distress signals directly to search-and-rescue agencies such as the U.S. Coast Guard. The SPOT signal goes to GEOS Alliance, a monitoring service based in Houston, Texas, which follows its own response protocol.

 

According to the SPOT website, if a distress call is made using the SOS function on a SPOT device, GEOS Alliance’s Emergency Response Center “notifies the appropriate emergency responders based on your GPS location and personal information." In case the SPOT cannot acquire its location from the GPS network, “it will still attempt to send a distress signal – without exact location – to GEOS, which will still notify your contacts of the signal and continue to monitor the network for further messages.”

 

While reading about the Aegean accident, in which four sailors died when their boat reportedly sailed into rocky Coronado Island sometime around 1:30 a.m. on April 28, I began to wonder: What would happen if a SPOT distress alert had no position, but the SPOT's approximate location was known through tracking data? And what would happen if the SPOT's track clearly indicated danger—say, a sailboat plowing into rocky island off the coast of Mexico?

 

Would that then merit a call to the Coast Guard?

 

Apparently not.

 

Sometime around 1:30 a.m. on April 28, the SPOT device owned by Theo Mavromatis, the registered skipper of the Aegean, sent out a distress signal that was received by GEOS Alliance. According to one person I spoke with who is familiar with the incident, “there is no question that this was a distress signal sent by a person.”

 

Although the distress signal had no position data, Mavromatis had programmed the device to report his position every 10 minutes so that family could track the boat. Shortly after the distress signal went out, Mavromatis' wife, Loren, received a phone call from GEOS Alliance. She was asleep, so the report of the distress signal from her husband’s SPOT went to voicemail. For several hours after that, it appears that there was no effort made by the monitoring agency to contact the U.S. Coast Guard or to confirm the distress alert, even though boat’s track clearly indicated trouble.

 

The Coast Guard search for Aegean's crew did not begin until more than eight hours later, after fellow racers came across debris from the wrecked Hunter and contacted the U.S. Coast Guard. Initially, it was thought a ship had collided with the boat, but when the track data surfaced later, the grounding on Coronado seemed the most likely explanation.

 

Lead investigator Lt. Bill Fitzgerald of U.S. Coast Guard Sector San Diego could not offer more details on the timeline of the distress call or the response, citing the ongoing investigation. He said the USCG's final report would be completed within two to six weeks.

 

Based on what is known at this stage, it seems clear that GEOS Alliance needs to closely examine how the Aegean distress call was handled, and how its existing response protocol might be improved. A distress call was made, and even without the boat's precise position, the Aegean's freight-train track toward Coronado Island spelled trouble, and its last known position would have been helpful to a search-and-rescue effort.

 

I'm disappointed that SPOT, GEOS Alliance, and the two groups investigating the accident—U.S. Coast Guard and a US Sailing panel, which recently used the SPOT data to conclude that the accident was caused by a grounding—have delayed releasing the apparently well-documented details surrounding the Aegean distress call. SPOT Messengers and similar satellite-based messenging devices are getting snatched up like iPads this summer, and while bloggers blather about the marvels of the new technology, I suspect many buyers don't have a clear understanding of how they work. I don't want to dissuade someone from buying something that might one day save their life, nor discount the advantages of two-way communication that some of the newer devices offer, but knowing what can go wrong with these gadgets is just as important as knowing what can go right.

 

Several people have reminded me that the SPOT Messengers and similar devices have already saved many lives. They also tell me that Aegean's distress call delay appears to be an isolated incident. Lt. Fitzgerald said that he was unaware of any prior cases, at least in his sector, in which "the distress signal was not responded to in a timely manner by the third-party monitoring service.”

 

The "official" distress alert options like 406 EPIRBs have problems, too. In our article “What is the Best Backup for a 406 EPIRB?” we reported how clerical errors in the 406 EPIRB registration process nearly resulted in one sailor's distress signal being ignored. Neverthless, a GPS-enabled 406 EPIRB is still Practical Sailor's first choice for satellite-based distress signaling. If you use a SPOT or a similar device, it should be a backup. In either case, boaters need to be certain that their registration data (boat name, point of contact information, etc.) is up to date, and that the owner and point of contact are well informed about what they should do in the event of a distress signal.

 

Perhaps the best lesson in all of this is that any electronic distress beacon should be regarded as truly a last resort—and an imperfect one at that.

 

 

Wow. That is stunning on multiple levels if true.

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I find this new twist most interesting

 

and Now for a Question about monitoring the tracking of your competition:

 

what might be different in the outcome had other boats been noticing someone heading into a BIG ROCK ???

 

what if others could have received the allert over their Spot Tracker ??

 

What if - What if - What - if ??????????????????

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I find this new twist most interesting

 

and Now for a Question about monitoring the tracking of your competition:

 

what might be different in the outcome had other boats been noticing someone heading into a BIG ROCK ???

 

what if others could have received the allert over their Spot Tracker ??

What if - What if - What - if ??????????????????

 

Spots only transmit.

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I find this new twist most interesting

 

and Now for a Question about monitoring the tracking of your competition:

 

what might be different in the outcome had other boats been noticing someone heading into a BIG ROCK ???

 

what if others *could have received the allert over their Spot Tracker ??

What if - What if - What - if ??????????????????

 

Spots only transmit.

 

exactly the reason I said * exactly what I said

 

What "IF" not why didn't they

 

more a reference to the YellowBrick Drama over the tracking of others

 

and a Hint for a way to get the message out to the race fleet "Real-Time" so as to have a Chance

 

Can't even imagine the Horror of finding out your loved ones Died as you slept through their only call for Help

 

Now even More that we don't know

 

like how why did they trip the Spot-911 yet not get to a radio etc ???

 

How long did they have to get rescued before it was too late

 

Hopefully it was Quick

 

This Now just makes it more painfull realizing no one could Help them Right Here on our Local Coast sad.gif

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the "distress call" is referring to hitting the 911 button on the Spot.

We get it.

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Apparently they issued an emergency "call" via the spot tracker - this should be a lesson to those who are willing to bet their lives on a cheap distress call solution........

 

 

Way back near the beginning of this thread I mentioned past history of issues with the Spot service and got shut down.

In fact, this is not the first time someone pressed the rescue button and got nothing. Other stories include people (family) trying to contact Spot service to get info and no one answers the phone.

Etc.

Search SA, the stories are here, and I've read some in magazines.

They have not had a spotless record. (My guess is it's all done on a computer server and no live people even get involved.)

 

I think the Spot as a tracker is a neat idea, but I wouldn't bet one red cent on it being reliable for rescue.

 

Epirb.

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Sounds to me as if, in the interests of safety, SPOT devices ought to be forbidden by US Sailing on yachts competing in offshore events. Clearly they confuse people into making poor decisions during times of crisis. Agean had an EPRIB - if that had been tossed in the water rather than wasting time farting around with the useless SPOT, perhaps they'd be alive today.

 

And what's with the Practical Sailor recommendation? Clearly if a GPS-equipped EPRIB is the best solution for an emergency beacon then the best backup is a 2nd GPS-equipped EPRIB. Seriously, the logic in their recommendation defies sanity.

 

SPOT - A really good solution for finding dead bodies!

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Why do you think they collect every piece of an aircraft that has crashed & painstakingly reconstruct the remains at great expense?

 

Um, apples and oranges. The FAA goes to such effort to determine if something was mechanically wrong with the plane, so sister planes can be modified to eliminate the defect. I doubt Hunter is interested building their boats so they hold together when slammed into the rocks.

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Why do you think they collect every piece of an aircraft that has crashed & painstakingly reconstruct the remains at great expense?

 

Um, apples and oranges. The FAA goes to such effort to determine if something was mechanically wrong with the plane, so sister planes can be modified to eliminate the defect. I doubt Hunter is interested building their boats so they hold together when slammed into the rocks.

Do you have a comprehension problem?

 

Do you think the FAA "is interested building planes so they hold together when slammed into the ground?".

 

The CG should make an effort to determine what caused the incident and maybe prevent further deaths in the future. Don't you think that would be a good idea?

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the "distress call" is referring to hitting the 911 button on the Spot.

We get it.

 

I guess I missed the pressing the 911 button. I thought it was just transmitting to the tracking site until it stopped transmitting?

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Sounds to me as if, in the interests of safety, SPOT devices ought to be forbidden by US Sailing on yachts competing in offshore events. Clearly they confuse people into making poor decisions during times of crisis. Agean had an EPRIB - if that had been tossed in the water rather than wasting time farting around with the useless SPOT, perhaps they'd be alive today.

 

And what's with the Practical Sailor recommendation? Clearly if a GPS-equipped EPRIB is the best solution for an emergency beacon then the best backup is a 2nd GPS-equipped EPRIB. Seriously, the logic in their recommendation defies sanity.

 

SPOT - A really good solution for finding dead bodies!

 

I have been using Spot for some five years or more - but would never think of using it as a distress beacon. I use it so my family and friends can see where I am - usually I sail solo and my wife can see I am safely home and get dinner ready. It is supposed to take a position every ten minutes, but from my experience it may take a few in a row every ten minutes and then nothing for an hour or so. Over a 24 hour period it will miss a number of positions. My wife also tells me whilst I am sailing it is often hard to log in as perhaps their server gets too busy, so again another reason not to rely on it.

 

The thought that anyone needs to "ban" something is just ridiculous. You cannot legislate against ignorance. If Aegean really was using a Spot device as a safety unit then that is sad, but should not deserve any reaction from any authority.

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Why do you think they collect every piece of an aircraft that has crashed & painstakingly reconstruct the remains at great expense?

 

Um, apples and oranges. The FAA goes to such effort to determine if something was mechanically wrong with the plane, so sister planes can be modified to eliminate the defect. I doubt Hunter is interested building their boats so they hold together when slammed into the rocks.

Do you have a comprehension problem?

 

Do you think the FAA "is interested building planes so they hold together when slammed into the ground?".

 

The CG should make an effort to determine what caused the incident and maybe prevent further deaths in the future. Don't you think that would be a good idea?

 

Maybe you need to go back to whining in the BG thread.

 

The FAA flight safety folks look at crash data to determine why the airplane crashes into the ground. If there is unmistakeable info as to why, they don't complete the forensics. In addition to the fact that a close friend is a senior safety inspector for the FAA, I've picked up my fair share of pieces of crumpled aluminum and carbon over the years.

 

The CG will have determined if there is value in further investigation. Satisfying the morbid curiosity on SA isn't part of their charter.

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Why do you think they collect every piece of an aircraft that has crashed & painstakingly reconstruct the remains at great expense?

 

Um, apples and oranges. The FAA goes to such effort to determine if something was mechanically wrong with the plane, so sister planes can be modified to eliminate the defect. I doubt Hunter is interested building their boats so they hold together when slammed into the rocks.

Do you have a comprehension problem?

 

Do you think the FAA "is interested building planes so they hold together when slammed into the ground?".

 

The CG should make an effort to determine what caused the incident and maybe prevent further deaths in the future. Don't you think that would be a good idea?

 

Maybe you need to go back to whining in the BG thread.

 

The FAA flight safety folks look at crash data to determine why the airplane crashes into the ground. If there is unmistakeable info as to why, they don't complete the forensics. In addition to the fact that a close friend is a senior safety inspector for the FAA, I've picked up my fair share of pieces of crumpled aluminum and carbon over the years.

 

The CG will have determined if there is value in further investigation. Satisfying the morbid curiosity on SA isn't part of their charter.

 

The FAA flight safety folks look at crash data to determine why the airplane crashes into the ground.

 

Why shouldn't the CG do the same for a boat when 4 people have died?

 

Or are you just posting to stir shit?

 

Asymptote post 2516

 

Far from unexplained: They have the bodies. They have the Spot track. They know where they hit the island. They have the USSailing inquiry. There are no witnesses or survivors or "black boxes. I expect they have done toxicology screens on the crew. The debris will tell them nothing.

 

What do you possibly think would be learned that would be valuable to the community at large, and at what cost?

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The MAIB in the UK do pretty much what the FAA does

www.maib.gov.uk

they do a great service to improving safety by finding out what caused the accident

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which satellites does Spot use to transmit to?

EDIT ok Globalstar

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Karua,

 

I agree with you on principal, but let's face it - the US Sailing recommendation and emerging USCG requirements for racing out of San Francsico change the whole ball game. Surely the same throught process that requires someone to sit through hours of "education" in order to race out to the light bucket must ban SPOT as a dangerous distraction for these wreckless and ill-informed sailors, no? It only follows ...

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Cal Worthington called Spot a Dog wink.gif

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Karua,

 

I agree with you on principal, but let's face it - the US Sailing recommendation and emerging USCG requirements for racing out of San Francsico change the whole ball game. Surely the same throught process that requires someone to sit through hours of "education" in order to race out to the light bucket must ban SPOT as a dangerous distraction for these wreckless and ill-informed sailors, no? It only follows ...

 

Sorry, I must have had an irony deficiency this morning..certainly restrictions are getting stronger everywhere. I have just received an Aquatic Licence (approval to run yacht race) from NSW Maritime and Roads. We have to leave at least 1 cable clearance around any island or marked reef, and must report to Port authorities when the first yacht enters their area, and when the last yacht leaves. All two-handed or solo yachts.

 

Maybe I should just send them the log-in to my Spot account? It should be correct at least every few hours?

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Karua,

 

I agree with you on principal, but let's face it - the US Sailing recommendation and emerging USCG requirements for racing out of San Francsico change the whole ball game. Surely the same throught process that requires someone to sit through hours of "education" in order to race out to the light bucket must ban SPOT as a dangerous distraction for these wreckless and ill-informed sailors, no? It only follows ...

 

Sorry, I must have had an irony deficiency this morning..certainly restrictions are getting stronger everywhere. I have just received an Aquatic Licence (approval to run yacht race) from NSW Maritime and Roads. We have to leave at least 1 cable clearance around any island or marked reef, and must report to Port authorities when the first yacht enters their area, and when the last yacht leaves. All two-handed or solo yachts.

 

Maybe I should just send them the log-in to my Spot account? It should be correct at least every few hours?

 

Thanks for sharing that. It's always good to get input from foreigners and learn how they do things.

 

Or not.

 

WTF?

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Karua,

 

I agree with you on principal, but let's face it - the US Sailing recommendation and emerging USCG requirements for racing out of San Francsico change the whole ball game. Surely the same throught process that requires someone to sit through hours of "education" in order to race out to the light bucket must ban SPOT as a dangerous distraction for these wreckless and ill-informed sailors, no? It only follows ...

 

Sorry, I must have had an irony deficiency this morning..certainly restrictions are getting stronger everywhere. I have just received an Aquatic Licence (approval to run yacht race) from NSW Maritime and Roads. We have to leave at least 1 cable clearance around any island or marked reef, and must report to Port authorities when the first yacht enters their area, and when the last yacht leaves. All two-handed or solo yachts.

 

Maybe I should just send them the log-in to my Spot account? It should be correct at least every few hours?

 

Thanks for sharing that. It's always good to get input from foreigners and learn how they do things.

 

Or not.

 

WTF?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CuCxxXCM4I

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Sounds to me as if, in the interests of safety, SPOT devices ought to be forbidden by US Sailing on yachts competing in offshore events. Clearly they confuse people into making poor decisions during times of crisis. Agean had an EPRIB - if that had been tossed in the water rather than wasting time farting around with the useless SPOT, perhaps they'd be alive today.

 

And what's with the Practical Sailor recommendation? Clearly if a GPS-equipped EPRIB is the best solution for an emergency beacon then the best backup is a 2nd GPS-equipped EPRIB. Seriously, the logic in their recommendation defies sanity.

 

SPOT - A really good solution for finding dead bodies!

 

I have been using Spot for some five years or more - but would never think of using it as a distress beacon. I use it so my family and friends can see where I am - usually I sail solo and my wife can see I am safely home and get dinner ready. It is supposed to take a position every ten minutes, but from my experience it may take a few in a row every ten minutes and then nothing for an hour or so. Over a 24 hour period it will miss a number of positions. My wife also tells me whilst I am sailing it is often hard to log in as perhaps their server gets too busy, so again another reason not to rely on it.

 

The thought that anyone needs to "ban" something is just ridiculous. You cannot legislate against ignorance. If Aegean really was using a Spot device as a safety unit then that is sad, but should not deserve any reaction from any authority.

 

 

The SPOT device is not well understood by a lot of people.

 

But first..., it is worth pointing out that there have also been failures of the EPIRB system that have led to fatalities. They have been publicized and you can read about them. I am not referring to technical failures - as in the signal not being received - but failures of the bureaucracy passing along the info and coordinating the rescue.

 

The SPOT has two modes for summoning assistance - an SOS button, which is what was apparently used in the NE situation, and is supposedly for life and death emergencies, as well as a "Help" button, which is supposedly for less serious situations.

 

The SOS message goes to the SPOT rescue center which apparently fucked up in this incident.

 

The "Help" is entirely user-configurable - which is a really great feature.

 

what can you configure?

 

you can pre-configure a text message that might say.., for example:

 

Vessel XXXX, competing in Newport-Ensenada Race

Consider this message a MAYDAY

5 people aboard

Possible Man over board

Possible abandonment of vessel

 

this message will be sent with the GPS lat lon

 

the great part is that the message can be sent to whomever you want it sent to...

 

it can go as an email to multiple email addresses, as well as a text to multiple phone numbers.

 

these can include a friend whom you really trust to make sure a rescue gets started..., the email and phone of the race organizer, which often monitors their contact info 24hrs a day for distance races

 

and so on - even the coast guard email can be included - not that they want to receive mayday's that way..., but my point is you can sent it to lots of people.

 

 

no this is not a substitute for an EPIRB - but, it does have features that the EPIRB doesn't have, not least of which is the ability to put your mayday in the hands of someone you know and trust, within seconds of your pressing the button.

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no this is not a substitute for an EPIRB - but, it does have features that the EPIRB doesn't have, not least of which is the ability to put your mayday in the hands of someone you know and trust, within seconds of your pressing the button.

 

The biggest reason Spot isn't a substitute for an EPIRB is that coverage isn't global - no coverage in mid-Pacific for example.

 

I don't think "within seconds" is accurate either - there is some delay.

 

dash

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no this is not a substitute for an EPIRB - but, it does have features that the EPIRB doesn't have, not least of which is the ability to put your mayday in the hands of someone you know and trust, within seconds of your pressing the button.

 

The biggest reason Spot isn't a substitute for an EPIRB is that coverage isn't global - no coverage in mid-Pacific for example.

 

I don't think "within seconds" is accurate either - there is some delay.

 

dash

 

i think i typically get a message in under a minute.

 

the coverage isn't global, but the service does work better than the globalstar voice telephone service.

 

the SPOT is a short-burst device, not a phone.

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no this is not a substitute for an EPIRB - but, it does have features that the EPIRB doesn't have, not least of which is the ability to put your mayday in the hands of someone you know and trust, within seconds of your pressing the button.

 

The biggest reason Spot isn't a substitute for an EPIRB is that coverage isn't global - no coverage in mid-Pacific for example.

 

I don't think "within seconds" is accurate either - there is some delay.

 

dash

 

i think i typically get a message in under a minute.

 

the coverage isn't global, but the service does work better than the globalstar voice telephone service.

 

the SPOT is a short-burst device, not a phone.

 

That very much depends on the congestion on the Globalstar network....................it seems like the Spot does not get a very high priority. There can be quite large delays for both messages and tracking. The biggest problem though, is the less than stellar protocol adhesion for the emergency sub-contractor

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Karua,

 

I agree with you on principal, but let's face it - the US Sailing recommendation and emerging USCG requirements for racing out of San Francsico change the whole ball game. Surely the same throught process that requires someone to sit through hours of "education" in order to race out to the light bucket must ban SPOT as a dangerous distraction for these wreckless and ill-informed sailors, no? It only follows ...

 

Sorry, I must have had an irony deficiency this morning..certainly restrictions are getting stronger everywhere. I have just received an Aquatic Licence (approval to run yacht race) from NSW Maritime and Roads. We have to leave at least 1 cable clearance around any island or marked reef, and must report to Port authorities when the first yacht enters their area, and when the last yacht leaves. All two-handed or solo yachts.

 

Maybe I should just send them the log-in to my Spot account? It should be correct at least every few hours?

 

Thanks for sharing that. It's always good to get input from foreigners and learn how they do things.

 

Or not.

 

WTF?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CuCxxXCM4I

 

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