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      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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furnival

Laser SB3 becomes SB20

41 posts in this topic

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/162897/New-Sales-and-Marketing-Structure-for-SB20

 

From http://sportsboatworld.com/faq-2/:

What has changed?

Tony Castro, as the designer of the SB20, gave LaserPerformance (LP) the distribution rights to what has been known as the Laser SB3, through a Licence Agreement from 2001. This License Agreement has now been terminated. The reasons for its termination are confidential to Tony Castro and LP.

 

Who holds the license now?

Under the new structure Tony Castro retains the licence himself, and independently licenses the manufacturer of the boat, spars and sails. The new company Sportsboat World oversees the building of the boat, global sales distribution and general management.

 

 

 

Will the boat name change?

 

The boat is now known as the SB20. The term Laser will no longer be used.

 

 

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http://www.yachtsand...ucture-for-SB20

 

From http://sportsboatworld.com/faq-2/:

What has changed?

Tony Castro, as the designer of the SB20, gave LaserPerformance (LP) the distribution rights to what has been known as the Laser SB3, through a Licence Agreement from 2001. This License Agreement has now been terminated. The reasons for its termination are confidential to Tony Castro and LP.

 

Who holds the license now?

Under the new structure Tony Castro retains the licence himself, and independently licenses the manufacturer of the boat, spars and sails. The new company Sportsboat World oversees the building of the boat, global sales distribution and general management.

 

 

 

Will the boat name change?

 

The boat is now known as the SB20. The term Laser will no longer be used.

 

 

Pretty interesting - new company says that they are making some class-sanctioned changes to make the boat better, which is good news for a pretty dated build. Not a whisper about any markets outside the UK though. Not great news for US owners still hoping that they'll have a one design class at some point in the US.

 

WWing

 

 

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From the web site:

 

"Has the new SB20 changed?

SBW will incorporate a number of small changes, to improve the sailing experience and iron out any small technical issues. SBW are ensuring that the strict one design nature of the boat is maintained, so any changes have no implications on the speed of the boat."

 

I'm curious about the changes. What are the "small technical" issues? Can the fixes be easily rettrofitted?

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Are there any SB3s in the USA ?

Not any more!

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Hey! There's at least one. In Kansas. We're hoping the new changes will improve customer service, if nothing else.

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There's open water in Kansas ????

Lots of wind, for sure.

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Hey! There's at least one. In Kansas. We're hoping the new changes will improve customer service, if nothing else.

No Myke, it's not in Kansas any more. There are no more SB3's. I was being ironic. The word has been taken out of US dictionaries, along with "gullible."

 

But having said that, where DO you sail SteamBoat20's in Kansas?

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The name has changed because of some new sportsboats that have emerged on the market. It is now not 3 times shitter than other sportsboats, it is 20 times more shit.

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Hey! There's at least one. In Kansas. We're hoping the new changes will improve customer service, if nothing else.

No Myke, it's not in Kansas any more. There are no more SB3's. I was being ironic. The word has been taken out of US dictionaries, along with "gullible."

 

But having said that, where DO you sail SteamBoat20's in Kansas?

 

I have to say, it took a bit of courage to admit on Sailing Anarchy that we're new owners of a lightly used SB3. ;-)

 

We sail on Perry lake at Perry Yacht Club. Perry is a somewhat over 16,000 acres; a reasonable size lake, unless you have one of those fast sportboats... Truth be told, tomorrow will be our first sail on this boat. I'll check back in to let you know whether we got beat by the club Sunfish.

 

I don't expect the SB3/SB20 situation to change in the U.S., but it will be nice if they're able improve on service. The boat just didn't catch on for a number of reasons and that's the end of that. I saw Clean's reviews and he seemed to give it a fair evaluation. Still, it was available, it's all but new, and the price was right.

 

And just so you know, I haven't met Dorothy or the stupid dog.

 

Mike

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I hear it's good in heavy air and the wind does blow there, so have a blast.

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For those that might care:

 

Yes we do own a SB3/SB20 and for various reasons it suits us and IMHO its still better than a J24!

 

2nd May 2012

LICENSE AGREEMENT

What has changed?

Tony Castro, as the designer of the SB20, gave LaserPerformance (LP) the distribution rights to

what has been known as the Laser SB3, through a Licence Agreement from 2001. This License

Agreement has now been terminated. The reasons for its termination are confidential to Tony

Castro and LP.

Who holds the license now?

Under the new structure Tony Castro retains the licence himself, and independently licenses the

manufacturer of the boat, spars and sails. The new company Sportsboat World oversees the

building of the boat, global sales distribution and general management.

NAME OF BOAT, LASER NAME AND SB20 TRADEMARKS

Will the boat name change?

The boat is now known as the SB20. The term Laser will no longer be used.

Why SB20?

The boat was originally called the SB3 as it was a "3 crew Sportsboat". This was not commonly

understood, especially with many boats sailing with 4 crew. SB20 represents "20 foot sportsboat."

Will the Laser trademark continue?

No. The Laser trademark will not be used for the new boats, new sails and new spare parts.

Can the existing boat owners continue to use the Laser trademark (leave the Laser sticker

on their boats and sails)?

Yes. There is no restriction on existing branding. New sails, new boats, websites, communication

and events will use the new SB20 name.

GLOBAL DISTRIBUTION

How is the SB20 be managed?

The Head Office function is managed by Sportsboat World (SBW) in the UK. SBW will organise the

global distribution structure via licensed dealers around the world.

Will the existing Dealer network remain in place?

SBW are retaining most of the existing dealers, especially where they have been successful in

building and supporting an existing fleet.

Who are Sportsboat World?

Please refer to the Press Release. SBW has premises around 5 miles outside of Hamble in the UK.

The Hamble river has the highest concentration of SB20's anywhere in the world, and the major

suppliers are all represented close by.

Sportsboat World is the trading name of Sportsboat Group Limited.

11 Bury Farm, Curbridge, Hampshire, SO30 2HB, UK | Company reg: 7965040

Does Sportsboat World have other responsibilities?

SBW is the UK SB20 dealer.

How will SBW and its dealer network support the class?

SBW and its dealer network are working with the regional Class Association on events, to ensure

that the racing is fun, competitive and in the right locations.

NEW BOATS

Can I buy a new SB20 now?

Yes.

Who do I contact for a new boat?

Visit www.sportsboatworld.com. The full global dealer list will be published shortly, but in the mean

time, SBW will be able to help or point you in the direction of your dealer.

Where are the new boats built?

White Formula builds the SB20. They were the original builder in the UK. The decision to revert to

them was based on build quality, shipping and logistics.

Will DK Boats continue to build SB20's?

No.

Has the new SB20 changed?

SBW will incorporate a number of small changes, to improve the sailing experience and iron out any

small technical issues. SBW are ensuring that the strict one design nature of the boat is maintained,

so any changes have no implications on the speed of the boat.

Who guarantees the new boats?

The manufacturer of boats, sails, spars and parts have warranties for the products they produce.

The warranty process is managed by Sportsboat World and the respective dealers.

SAILS AND SPARE PARTS

Where do we buy new sails and spare parts?

All sails, spars and spare parts are available exclusively through the new SB20 dealer network.

Is there a sail levy?

Yes. A small sail levy will be paid directly to the World Council. This will be used to help fund

events. This levy is included in the retail price.

EVENTS

What will the events be known as?

All future events will be held as the SB20 class. The official name will be changed at ISAF, and the

class constitution and class rules will be adjusted accordingly through appropriate procedures.

Does this change effect the 2012 European and World Championships?

No. These events will be run exactly as planned. There will simply be a class name change to the

SB20.

 

PRESS RELEASE

New Sales & Marketing Structure for the SB20 (formerly known as the Laser SB3)

2nd May 2012

Southampton, UK – Tony Castro today announces that the global sales and marketing of the hugely

successful sportsboat is to be carried out by a new organisation Sportsboat World. The boat which will now

be known as the SB20 has over 650 boats sailing in 20 countries worldwide, and it achieved ISAF

recognition in 2007.

Sportsboat World is founded by SB20 designer Tony Castro.

In partnership with Jerry Hill, Alan Hillman and Mark Richards, Sportsboat World will promote the design

and manufacture of sportsboats. Jerry is a former UK Class Chairman and 2010 SB3 world champion,

whilst Alan and Mark are the partners of the SB3 specialists firm Rigging Gurus.

Tony Castro has appointed White Formula in the UK, who built the first 50 boats in 2002, as the licensed

SB20 builder. New boats have been ordered and are due for delivery from 1st August 2012. Parts are

available with immediate effect from www.sportsboatworld.com and via a revised dealer network.

Sportsboat World will work with the SB20 World Council and National Associations to provide an event

circuit to appeal to sailors internationally.

President of the SB20 World Council, Edward Russo (FRA) expressed his pleasure in the announcement of

the developments for the SB20 class. “This is extremely good news for the SB20 class which is currently

experiencing strong growth in several countries. I am especially pleased to see the SB20 production being

moved back to the UK. The promise of quality new boats, a steady supply of spares as well as technical

support means the SB20 will continue to provide cost effective, international one-design competitive sailing

for a long time to come."

Glenn Bourke current Australian National Champion and 2012 Worlds host, is in full support of the new

structure. “I am delighted to hear that the SB20 class is in the hands of people who have been racing in it

since it's inception. Like everyone who loves this class, I look forward a seamless transition to the

production of new high quality boats. We’re ramping up for the Worlds in Hamilton Island in December and

2012 is shaping up to be yet another great year for the SB20!”

For further information and a full Q&A please see www.sportsboatworld.com, or www.sb20class.com

Ends

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Will the opportunity be taken to upgrade the hull construction to obtain competitive longevity comparable to many other boats, or will the Laser tradition of quickly going soft be continued?

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Doesn't this get the license away from Laser Performance and free up the original designer to market the SB20 in the US? Those of you who own the boat have any insight on what was going on at Laser Performance?

The news release did mention quality control being one of the reasons production was brought back to the UK.

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I hope the real story behind the whole LP debacle comes out soon. My guess is that Tony would have plenty to say were it not for certain agreements!

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1336365686[/url]' post='3701874']

I hope the real story behind the whole LP debacle comes out soon. My guess is that Tony would have plenty to say were it not for certain agreements!

 

Me too. Any thoughts on the SB20 (to use the new naming convention) vs the j70, since you are one of the rare folks who have sailed both? Perhaps another thread would be in order.

I'm selling my lead sled keelboat and am in the market for a trailerable sportboat and understand that at the moment, the J70 has better odds of becoming a decent OD fleet in the US. My question is what you think based on pure enjoyment and crew skills required?

Thanks

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From the web site:

 

"Has the new SB20 changed?

SBW will incorporate a number of small changes, to improve the sailing experience and iron out any small technical issues. SBW are ensuring that the strict one design nature of the boat is maintained, so any changes have no implications on the speed of the boat."

 

I'm curious about the changes. What are the "small technical" issues? Can the fixes be easily rettrofitted?

 

Mike Wood, owner of 3177 has suggested the following on the UK SB20 Class Association Forums:

 

I look forward to hearing what the tweaks will be (on top of the Tacktick alternates) - my wish list (which has been there for a few years) is set out below ;-)

 

1. Better and more foot straps in better locations

 

2. Ditch the ridiculous horseshoe

 

3. Dual control/continuous cunningham

 

4. Sails that don't cost (in a set) over 1/4 the value of a second hand boat.

 

FYI The horseshoe is used for mounting the outboard to the rear of the cockpit but doesn't do it very well!

 

It should be easy to modify existing boats to incorporate the above.

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They are probably talking about the horseshoe life preserver that is mandatory for craft that size in the UK and was there for written into the original OD class rule.

 

About 2 years ago they changed the rules to allow the national associations to opt out of carrying it and a couple of other items such as flares. In Ireland, where life jackets/PFDs are required for all racing, they opted out as soon as they where given a choice.

 

The bracket for the outboard is fine for what it's supposed to be used for (getting out of the marina on a flat calm day) so long as you tie it down and in my mind way preferable to having a permanent bracket.

 

Say what you like about LP, their brand and business model probably carried the SB3 to the level of success it's had.

 

The last 2 years have been dreadful in terms of LP support for the class though and the new agents have essentially been keeping the class in supplies.

 

The class isn't totally out of the wood work though. Part of the reason the old boats (the ones built by the builder they've just gone back too) are still being raced by teams capable of putting them at the front of the fleet is that their weights are all over the shop. There's one at least with over 40kg of correctors in, while another of the same vintage is over weight. The new agents seem to have the trust of the existing fleet to sort this out but how to make new boats perceived (didn't have any problem at the wolds keeping up in a corrector-less boat) to be as competitive as the old ones is the challenge.

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Good to hear you guys are sorting this out. Would be a shame to see a nice boat and class killed by build and service issues.

 

Look forward to seeing a few more on our race courses here in the states.

 

 

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Are there any SB3s in the USA ?

 

I've seen 3 in Anacortes, WA. I know 2 of them are hard down. Both for mast butt repairs. Maybe those are the "technical issues"?

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Mast buts are an occasional problem. You can get unlucky all right. The big thing with the masts are the spreader brackets.

 

The originally spec'ed spreader bracket may be cheep but it simply isn't up to the job. It doesn't actually fit the mast properly; flexes, work hardens and eventually snaps. Most of the Irish fleet carry a spare, some more than one, then again we sail in serious waves and wind more often than not. Most of the time the rig doesn't come down and the boat has been able to sail to shore, but occasionally a mast has hit the deck.

 

It's also, I believe, not in general production by the supplier anymore. Upgrading the bracket is definitely one of the things on the new agents radar and as with every other upgrade that's happened I wouldn't be surprised if the replacement is cheaper, more available and better for the job.

 

Other things that have had an upgrade over the last few years include the gooseneck and main sail sliders. The thing is outside of LP the SB20 is an exceptionally well run and managed class.

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They are probably talking about the horseshoe life preserver that is mandatory for craft that size in the UK and was there for written into the original OD class rule.

 

Don't think it is correct that they are legally mandatory. They may be specified in some SIs.

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They are probably talking about the horseshoe life preserver that is mandatory for craft that size in the UK and was there for written into the original OD class rule.

Yes, my mistake.

 

Say what you like about LP, their brand and business model probably carried the SB3 to the level of success it's had.

 

LP established the SB3/20 as the most successful Sportsboat class at Cowes in only 4 years - the got sailing *stars* in the boats, they got sponsors, did deals to establish fleets (e.g. Ireland, Singapore) and created possibly the best marketing execution to establish a class that yachting has seen for many years.

 

It seemed to go pear shaped when they bought Vanguard and tried to launch late in the US without the resources that they put into Europe. They also failed to get the Australian Laser manufactures to take the SB3 (hence the Dart SB3) and also launched late in Australia with little marketing support. By the time they launched in USA and US the competition had woken up and it was much harder to establish traction.

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I have respect for Tony Castro and wish him success.

 

but

post-1820-029176400 1336581326_thumb.jpg

The i550 hulls are so easily built to plan specs that the hulls are nearly identical. 6 mm marine ply is used for everything. doubled up in some places to be tough and take loads.

The CHINE is back in style. It has always been fast. Now all the plastico boats are getting them.

WOODIE DESIGNS -----STAR LIGHTNING SNIPE I550

We think the i550 might be able to establish itself in the ranks of these great boats.

Fun fast boats.

A DIY i550 is the cheapest new boat you can have.

A Watershed kit is cheap right now.

A watershed built i550 is in the low twenties.

 

We are encouraging community sailing programs to consider the i550.

High Schools and Colleges need this sort of boat to get out of the slow lane and actually teach some practical skills.

A group of Sea Scouts is building an i550 in Florida. Probly gonna kick the yacht club's ass, again. They are just across the bay but a world away.

 

I am going to adopt the very successful Viper.org tactic and become annoyingly persistent all over the place.

Apologies to Scot T (but I think he might be quietly entertained by the brash new marketing strategy).

Yet another thread hijack by a boat even less impressive than the SB23. The SB's are at least OD and sailed (here in Oz at least) by some serious OD sailors. The i550 rule has holes you can drive a truck through, or not, with some local fleets banning carbon rigs for example, plus the on again off again cabin top, big small cockpit etc. And too slow to be a Sportsboat in Oz. At least the SB23's can do that - if they were brave enough.

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To correct,(p)Irate, all of the three classes allow carbon rigs. The differences are actually this:

 

i550class - Hulls must be plywood, there must be a cabin that is 42" (1.07M) from the bottom of the hull in height at station 89 (basically, the mast step), bulbs are required on the keel and you must have an outboard rudder. The dimensional tolerances have been tightened up on the hull in most cases.

 

North American i550 Class - full composite hulls allowed, flush decks allowed, bulbs are basically optional and inboard rudders are allowed. The dimensional tolerances have been tightened up on the hull in most cases but not as much as with the i550class rule set.

 

Australia - They use the original rule set so are all inclusive and they are willing to allow odd ball boats sail. Meaning only that TTB's longer than normal pole and DBSS's deeper keel will not keep those boats from sailing in a class start. Sail what you brung as they recognize that with the hulls being so close, the differences between boats will be slight.

 

So, indeed, not a one design in the sense that the SB3 (now SB20) is, but still as much of a sportboat as any other and certainly as much fun.

 

A different animal than the SB20 and a smaller, simpler boat, so perhaps not as fast around a course. But 20.5 knots downwind is still pretty fast for 5.5 meters.

 

To be honest, I liked the SB3 (20) when I sailed against them. Seems to be a fun, easy to sail boat in most conditions. Just didn't take off here in the states. I hope it does better under the new program.

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quit with the spam Timber. If you have a race report, send it in. Otherwise, chill.

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quit with the spam Timber. If you have a race report, send it in. Otherwise, chill.

A race report from Timber? Hahahahaha

 

He would have to build a boat first, or buy one from someone that is actually capable of building one in their spare time.

 

And this is "his" business? Wow!

 

Back on topic//

are the 2 SB3 (20) in Anacortes being repaired and are the owners planning to sail them or are they out for the count?

 

Would really be interested in coordinating a road trip for the PDX i550s to an Anacortes regatta if they were going to be out racing as well.

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quit with the spam Timber. If you have a race report, send it in. Otherwise, chill.

A race report from Timber? Hahahahaha

 

He would have to build a boat first, or buy one from someone that is actually capable of building one in their spare time.

 

And this is "his" business? Wow!

 

Back on topic//

are the 2 SB3 (20) in Anacortes being repaired and are the owners planning to sail them or are they out for the count?

 

Would really be interested in coordinating a road trip for the PDX i550s to an Anacortes regatta if they were going to be out racing as well.

 

Don't know about the PNW SB-3/20s. Came across 2 rather forlorn and lonely looking ones in Annapolis last weekend, donated (?) to a community sailing center run out of Annapolis Sailing School. An Esse parked there too.

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The two Anacortes SB3's are sitting by the lifting crane near AYC, with the two Vipers and one U20. Add in a PDX i550 and a VX One then we've got a nice Sport Boat mix.

 

The SB3 masts have not been with the boats for several months. Damage to both boats was a result of a poorly designed lifting crane.

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Does anyone know how many SB20 (3) are in the US? I remember them from Ft Pierce (CHAWS) where they looked easy to sail and took the weather and chop pretty well. Better than the SR25 did anyway.

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Does anyone know how many SB20 (3) are in the US? I remember them from Ft Pierce (CHAWS) where they looked easy to sail and took the weather and chop pretty well. Better than the SR25 did anyway.

 

Not many left, most were shipped back to Europe and sold there - LP did a pretty poor job in getting them out there, and upset the dealer network who then wouldnt push them. It is a good boat, very popular in many places - maybe these new guys will give it a better puch in US.

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Does anyone know how many SB20 (3) are in the US? I remember them from Ft Pierce (CHAWS) where they looked easy to sail and took the weather and chop pretty well. Better than the SR25 did anyway.

 

Not many left, most were shipped back to Europe and sold there - LP did a pretty poor job in getting them out there, and upset the dealer network who then wouldnt push them. It is a good boat, very popular in many places - maybe these new guys will give it a better puch in US.

 

Disagree. Not a particularly good boat looking at its design function. The only time this boat should make sense for a buyer is when there is a big, local OD fleet to join.... I mean it would be more fun than an eggshell wouldn't it?

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1337169363[/url]' post='3715597']
1337168957[/url]' post='3715591']
1336686263[/url]' post='3708287']

Does anyone know how many SB20 (3) are in the US? I remember them from Ft Pierce (CHAWS) where they looked easy to sail and took the weather and chop pretty well. Better than the SR25 did anyway.

 

Not many left, most were shipped back to Europe and sold there - LP did a pretty poor job in getting them out there, and upset the dealer network who then wouldnt push them. It is a good boat, very popular in many places - maybe these new guys will give it a better puch in US.

 

Disagree. Not a particularly good boat looking at its design function. The only time this boat should make sense for a buyer is when there is a big, local OD fleet to join.... I mean it would be more fun than an eggshell wouldn't it?

 

You mean, like in most of the EU?

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This past week I initiated contact with the new SportsBoat World company, hoping for some assistance in acquiring some rubber bungs for the mast. I have been very pleased with their timely, positive support. Only at my request did the representative with whom I've been corresponding (Mark) send a list of parts I might consider having on hand, plus a few items I might want to replace. Buying a boat is only half the equation; the support is equally important. I knew I was taking a risk when I bought the boat, but it looks like things are headed in a positive direction.

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This past week I initiated contact with the new SportsBoat World company, hoping for some assistance in acquiring some rubber bungs for the mast. I have been very pleased with their timely, positive support. Only at my request did the representative with whom I've been corresponding (Mark) send a list of parts I might consider having on hand, plus a few items I might want to replace. Buying a boat is only half the equation; the support is equally important. I knew I was taking a risk when I bought the boat, but it looks like things are headed in a positive direction.

 

We too just bought an sb20 and have been corresponding with Mark who was extremely responsive. Seems like they also may be willing to work some deals especially with the sails etc...Since there is no stateside OD to speak of, we've been looking at local vendors for sails, but Mark is very keen in keeping the brand intact. I applaud their efforts...

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Diamondcove, I hope you find the SB20 to your liking! We're quite pleased with it.

 

I obtained the I,J,P,&E from Mark (sail plan data) so we can receive a PHRF rating from our club. It may be useful to have on hand:

 

Raw Information:

I=7380

J=2185

P=7930

E=3325

 

Which translates to:

 

I=24.21 ft

J=7.15 ft

P=26.01 ft

E=10.9 ft

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openmyke, we ARE loving this boat! We've taken it out in 20+kts and had lots of grins downwind... Not many sport boats in our neck of the woods, so people are curious, and have had several come up and wanting to race with us. Love the fact that our 6 yr old son feels quite comfortable in the boat when we take him out. He's been out in some big breeze and is still willing to go out after so that says something! He likes to trim the jib downwind. Got at quote from North Sails for a new jib and Mark was willing to work a deal to keep the brand so we are opting to get our stuff from him... Envious the fact that they have 85 boats on the line for their next regatta. Wish we had someone to tune with but that being said, we are doing the local club racing with a rating of 111. Curious as to what rating was given to you?

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There are a total of 4 SB3/SB20's in the PNW - two sold and living at Cap Sante in the dry storage by AYC. The other two are for sail at Marine Servicenter. One demo boat and one new one.....

 

I hope they find a good home, and I dont mean to undermine your promotional efforts, but a 4 year old SB3 for $37,900 doesnt seem like a "blow out" price to me. I recall they were $39,000 when new, fully loaded, incl new sails when launched in 2008.

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Rod Jones - event organiser for the SB20 Worlds at Hamilton Island has just sent me an email with details for charters available at the Worlds

 

 

 

Two AUS boats have become available for charter at UON 2012 SB20 World Championships.

 

These boats belong to UON Australia ( the event sponsor ).

 

Contact for details can me made to Kenny Keogh at the email Kenny@uon.com.au

 

Price for boats delivered to island and including sails is $4500.00 AUD inc gst

 

Im assured these are really good boats and sails are really good – please contact Kenny for information

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