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G.R.F.

Oops -er Sorry Wndsurfing you're out of the Olympics

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So this is somethinmg we can agree on. I think it was a mistake to get rid of windsurfing, but I also think the windsurfing community needs to be careful how it goes about campaigning to get back in. For instance, i have read many windsurfers say that the loss of olympic status will kill the sport. If that is true, which I don't believe, then teh sport has no place in the Olympics. You cannot have sports that only exist because of the olympics. The olympics needs to represent sports that are succesful in their own right. Of course, windsurfing is. You know that and have seen it in many locations on teh south coast of the UK (unless things have changed in the last 5 years). Having said that, I do now see more kites out here in Oz than I see windsurfers, but that doesn't mean windsurfing is dead. It should never have been a choice between the 2 sports, although I am not sure how both could be fitted into the number of events that ISAF has.

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Rory Ramsden (RSX Exec) Interview

 

RSX has 52 nations participating, that's on par with the Laser, how many Finn nations participate, or 470, or 49ers bless them.

 

I don't think it's wrong to include Kitesurfing and agree the spectacle as with crashing 49ers makes good TV, but it's morally wrong to dump windsurfing for it wrong at so many levels.

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RSX has 52 nations participating, that's on par with the Laser, how many Finn nations participate, or 470, or 49ers bless them.

Your figures are wrong. The men's RSX will have 38 countries while the womens will have 28. The Laser is 48 and 39. But that is only part of the story.

 

Just so you know how it works, at the beginning of each Olympic cycle, ISAF set the number of boats for each class. This is based on the number of actual competitors the IOC allows for the sport. In the case of 2012, the IOC set the number at 380 competitors. The class that supplies the most competitors is the 470 is the 470, with 54 sailors in the men and 40 in the women. The 49er has more athletes involved than the mens windsurfer.

 

Classes are dived into groups depending on whether they are seen as classes to get more countries, more sailors or better TV. The boards and Laser are the events designed to boost country numbers, at the expense of fleet quality. The 470 is the mass participation class while the 49er is a "spectacle" class.

 

One thing is for sure. n most classes, there are far more countries wishing to compete than there are places. having said that, the only class not to fill its quota at the Test regatta was the RSX which could have had 42 entries but only received 35. I wonder if that was considered when the vote for kiteboards was taking place.

 

What will be interesting is whether ISAF see the kites as driving more countries, or whether they will reduce the numbers compared with windsurfing, make it a TV class and redistribute the extra places to other classes.

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Interesting to note that the spaniard who voted (mistakingly according to the Spanish Federation he presides !!!) is the infamous Gerardo Pombo the founder of the Club Nautico de Vela which triggered the America's cup court saga between Oracle and Alinghi.

 

Time for the sport to get rid of that guy !

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Well I'm quoting the figures from that interview, but even so, this is a class that 'they' selected, gave them a remit and in five years they have outstripped all but the Laser in worldwide national representation, there have been four changes of board forced upon the sport, each time the selection wasn't exactly what the riders wanted, but never the less RSX with it's feeder class the Techno have more youngsters from more Nations than windsurfing has had in recent years.

 

Take the 470, with it's most sailors, that 27 nations how many years did that take?

 

How Many Finns are there, if ever there is a politically incorrect boat that should go, that's it. Catering for heavy rich boys, discriminating against Japan, China, and Women.

 

If they must chuck something out, can the bloody Finn, how many nations support it I wonder?

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Quite frankly in the days of the almighty television dollar, I'm surprised sailing is still an Olympic event.

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If they must chuck something out, can the bloody Finn, how many nations support it I wonder?

 

More than enough.

 

http://www.falmouthfinnfestival.com/competitors/entry_lists/C1

 

i'd say no.

that is a long list: yes

alot of countries?

no.

Asian countries? (2x china) (wow even one Indian)

south American countries? (1 Brazilian)

 

i agree that the finn is the most out of date and out of place boat in the olympics (after the start that is).

the thing is:

you can make sailing a cardboard box around the marks an olympic class.

will people sail it: yes they will. any sport that has an olympic status will see competitors from around the world (more or less) train and fight for that title because it is worth so much.

only because a lot of people fight for the olympic finn title, doesn't mean it is a well suited boat (for publicity, for competing countries, for the world-wide representation, for media coverage, for money, for "representing the sport", for the x-games generation, for the average sailor, for the talented sailor, for the heavyweight sailor, for the wife of the heavyweight sailor, for the partens, for of the couch potato watching the olympics 49er medal race, for the couch potato watching the AC, for the sailor watching the AC, for the sailors wife watching the AC, for budda, for henry rolling, for sailing anarchy, for jokes, for claiming that that boat sucks, for claiming that all finn sailors suck, for claiming ben ainsley is a god, for fist fights with media boats, for the paraolympics, for the boat builders, for your sex life, for your wife's sex life, for your afterlife quality, for keeping the planet green, for getting rich, for less spelling mistakes, for less hunger on the planet, for saving afrika, for more sailing development, for better cookies, for more booze, for better digestion, for hotter summers, for more snow in winter, for happy chickens, more children, for the fight against terrorism, for the fight against the usa, for bill hicks, for republicans, for freedom, to become a better and more complete sailor, to drive an AC-45, to build an AC-72, to have good competition, to have fair competition, to keep campaign costs low, to feed the boat builders, for the fight against corruption, to make you look better, for making you sail better, to fight the race problem, for less bullshitting, - damn this list could be endless - for clearer water, for windsurfing, for more boats at your weekend club racing, to get people out and sail, to get disabled people out and sail, help the veterans, as an alternative for 194 of the 198 kenians managed the world-championship limit but can't go to the olympics, for cheating, for your back, for easy launching, for better capsize recovery, for women sailing, for windy days, for anything actually).

 

 

i went to international rowing regattas for a while and the pictures there is somewhat different (even though not in total). rowing is also a very elite-sport. a rich college sport so to say. the pictures in rowing has changed somewhat in the last couple of years in by not being so clearly dominated by the traditional rowing countries

(same as the sailing countries). for example in the single scull there is a very very good Cuban guy. we get good boats from Egypt and other north African countries. and of course china is getting very strong.

in my opinion rowing has other problems like way too many classes (M1x, M2x, M2-, M4x, M4-, M8+, LM2x, LM4-, W1x, W2x, W4x, W8+, LW2x) add up the numbers and you get 21 Men and 17 women competing at an Olympic event.

something which is different in rowing: nobody, at no level and in no country owns his own boat. (i'm sure there are exceptions). it's all club boats or at higher level "national" boats.

 

will there be any black guy sailing in weymouth? i'm not sure but i doubt it.

i think all sports that do not represent "all" ethnic groups (ok that's a stupid idea. how many ethnic groups are there? you know what i mean!) should be banned from the olympics. that would be a challenge for isaf! but i am against such a rule, because it would bring other weird stuff. in my opinion the olympics should only represent sports where everyone can compete, no matter what part of the world he comes from, how much money he has - as long as he (or she) is talented enough.

i know that we are very far away from something similar to that but i am even more sure that there is hardly any sport which is further away fpr that than sailing!

 

i totally drifted off topic now, sorry about that.

hey let's kick a ball!!!

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This is a question rather than being a keen point or anything like that:

 

Wasn't there some situation where Neil Pryde wasn't being cooperative or supportive towards Olympic windsurfing, and for some reason they had become at least somewhat key to how the Olympics were doing it?

 

I had thought I'd seen something like that a year or so ago. As I don't follow windsurfing, this leaves me only the question of whether this manufacturer or other manufacturers had anything to do with the situation, rather than saying it is so.

 

?

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Front page:

multiple guess

 

Payaso, the Spanish word for 'clown' is the word that most comes to mind every time we write about Spanish Sailing Federation President (RFEV) Gerardo Pumbo. Yesterday, he hit the clown news again, claiming that his vote at the ISAF trials a week ago ousting Windsurfing in favor of Kiteboards (the vote was 19-17 in favor of the kites) was a mistake, and that he really meant to vote for the windsurfer. Hanging chads, anyone?

 

This is the same guy who founded the infamous (and imaginary) puppet club CNEV, that was shattered by the NY courts as a sham club, showering shame on everyone involved. He's the same guy that sued blogger Jaume Soler for breaking the story on the CNEV "annual regatta" in Optis – costing Soler hundreds of thousands in legal fees and destroying his life for more than two years. And he's the same guy that cost the Spanish hundreds of thousands when a court found his lawsuit against Soler was nothing but intimidation and bullshit.

 

You'd think a proud nation like Spain would have long-ago tossed a clown like Pumbo out on his ass for making all of Spanish sailing look ridiculous, and with such a strong sailing tradition, and so much going on over the past decade, we wonder what the real story is behind Pumbo's continuing presidency of the organization.

 

Check in on the thread here. The kite vs. board battle ain't going away just yet!

 

 

 

 

florida_hanging_chad_recount.jpg

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This is a question rather than being a keen point or anything like that:

 

Wasn't there some situation where Neil Pryde wasn't being cooperative or supportive towards Olympic windsurfing, and for some reason they had become at least somewhat key to how the Olympics were doing it?

 

I had thought I'd seen something like that a year or so ago. As I don't follow windsurfing, this leaves me only the question of whether this manufacturer or other manufacturers had anything to do with the situation, rather than saying it is so.

 

?

 

Yes, according to my sources, Neil Pryde is at least partially responsible for what happened to RS:X. It had something to do with his relationship with his dealers/distributors. Sorry, I don't have any more details, since I don't follow windsurfing these days closely.

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If they must chuck something out, can the bloody Finn, how many nations support it I wonder?

More than enough.

http://www.falmouthf.../entry_lists/C1

 

i'd say no.

that is a long list: yes

alot of countries?

no.

 

 

Ok, check this event:

http://sof.ffvoile.com/sof2012gbr

 

Finn - 22 countries

49er - 25 countries

 

So there.

Yes but remember that the 49er has other features that make it appealing beyond the number of nations.

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Yes but remember that the 49er has other features that make it appealing beyond the number of nations.

 

 

Yep in a 'stock' car racing fashion..

 

that and acrobatics I guess..

 

 

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Ok, check this event:

http://sof.ffvoile.com/sof2012gbr

Finn - 22 countries

49er - 25 countries

So there.

 

Yes but remember that the 49er has other features that make it appealing beyond the number of nations.

 

Such as?

Crew acrobatics? Ease of launching? Fact that they cartwheel? Fact that you can't sail them in colder climates as much as you'd like?

(It's May, but sea temperature in Stockholm, for example, is still at+6 deg/C. Anyone here sail 49ers in drysuits? Or maybe let the northerncountries build their 49er fleets on Bahamas?)

And, after all, who cares about the stinkin' numbers of nations at Olympics, right?

 

P.S. I didn't mean to derail this sailboard vs. kite thread, just leave that Finn alone for the time being, ok?

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...

 

If they must chuck something out, can the bloody Finn, how many nations support it I wonder?

 

To be fair, the bloody Finn has the most R&D put in tailored to the game. Mastering in that faking beast will give you the nuts and bolts of sailboats. Remind you that jumping one camera man is quite spectacular to watch on TV.

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Well I'm quoting the figures from that interview, but even so, this is a class that 'they' selected, gave them a remit and in five years they have outstripped all but the Laser in worldwide national representation, there have been four changes of board forced upon the sport, each time the selection wasn't exactly what the riders wanted, but never the less RSX with it's feeder class the Techno have more youngsters from more Nations than windsurfing has had in recent years.

 

Take the 470, with it's most sailors, that 27 nations how many years did that take?

 

How Many Finns are there, if ever there is a politically incorrect boat that should go, that's it. Catering for heavy rich boys, discriminating against Japan, China, and Women.

 

If they must chuck something out, can the bloody Finn, how many nations support it I wonder?

You need to be very careful with your arguments. The reason why so many nations are at the Olympics with boards is nothing to do with the popularity of boards but more to do with the number of places allocated by ISAF. If they allocated the same number of places to the 470, they would have that many as well. And if you check the Finn numbers, you would see that at the beginning of the Olympic cycle, there are many more nations involved. Even at this late stage, there are still more nations sailing Finns than there are places in the Olympics.

 

Which brings us to the problem windsurfing has. Despite the number of places ISAF has allocated the mens RSX, it looks like they won't fill the quota. They were short of quota at the test event last year. This is a noticable downturn in the number of countries prepared to send male windsurfers to the Olympics, the only class to see that downturn.

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....

Which brings us to the problem windsurfing has. Despite the number of places ISAF has allocated the mens RSX, it looks like they won't fill the quota.

...

 

SimonN, what the heck are you talking about !?

Our mens RS:X just missed the Olympic slot at Worlds in Cadiz and that I know for sure !!!

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More confusion:

 

http://mobile.reuter...120511?irpc=932

 

Reuters: Olympics-Delegates misunderstood kiteboard vote-Israeli official

 

That's fucking precious!

 

 

""The delegates were probably confused or didn't understand the motion fully because of language difficulties, or some may have been napping at the presentations and then cast their votes without realising the implications," Yehuda Maayan told Reuters."

 

That story is filled with quotes that are just pumped full of bullshit, and "Israel's Sailing Chief" should be ashamed at himself.

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Hey - I sent it in at 8 this morning! Scot takes his time sometimes...

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ok- which one of the kiters put the roofies in the delegate's drink at lunch?

This shit is too funny!

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If they must chuck something out, can the bloody Finn, how many nations support it I wonder?

 

 

Won't happen - nobody is brave enough to tell the Finn sailors...

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Don't bother telling them, use anti discrimination legislation, there's plenty of it, then tell them to lose some weight..wink.gif

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....

Which brings us to the problem windsurfing has. Despite the number of places ISAF has allocated the mens RSX, it looks like they won't fill the quota.

...

 

SimonN, what the heck are you talking about !?

Our mens RS:X just missed the Olympic slot at Worlds in Cadiz and that I know for sure !!!

And you would be correct. However, just because a country has qualified doesn't mean it will send athletes for that event and it looks like some aren't, which is a real bummer for those who missed a slot because it doesn't go to the next team but back into a pool of spare places which are then allocated by committeee (strange process designed to up the number of competing nations). At the Weymouth test event in 2011, the RSX was the only class that did not get the full number of entries allocated to it. That was something that I know was commented on by many within ISAF.

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....

Which brings us to the problem windsurfing has. Despite the number of places ISAF has allocated the mens RSX, it looks like they won't fill the quota.

...

 

SimonN, what the heck are you talking about !?

Our mens RS:X just missed the Olympic slot at Worlds in Cadiz and that I know for sure !!!

And you would be correct. However, just because a country has qualified doesn't mean it will send athletes for that event and it looks like some aren't, which is a real bummer for those who missed a slot because it doesn't go to the next team but back into a pool of spare places which are then allocated by committeee (strange process designed to up the number of competing nations). At the Weymouth test event in 2011, the RSX was the only class that did not get the full number of entries allocated to it. That was something that I know was commented on by many within ISAF.

New Zealand did this in multihulls... Money was tight and the chance for a medal was low... so no entry. Does ISAF have some idea of the cost benefit analysis countries use when they evaluate the number of slots/competition for the medals.

 

I suspect that if there is a lock for a medal(s) ... you might not want to send your team..... I do think that I would view a homocide in this case as justifiable though...

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If you look at the whole nomination thing it is a joke. It is not about the best it is about being inclusive. So much for the Olympic spirit about being the best. It staggers me that with the revelations about the boardsailing vote that our beloved editors have not started a major offensive against ISAF. If this is the largest online sailing community then use the power of it.

 

 

 

....

Which brings us to the problem windsurfing has. Despite the number of places ISAF has allocated the mens RSX, it looks like they won't fill the quota.

...

 

SimonN, what the heck are you talking about !?

Our mens RS:X just missed the Olympic slot at Worlds in Cadiz and that I know for sure !!!

And you would be correct. However, just because a country has qualified doesn't mean it will send athletes for that event and it looks like some aren't, which is a real bummer for those who missed a slot because it doesn't go to the next team but back into a pool of spare places which are then allocated by committeee (strange process designed to up the number of competing nations). At the Weymouth test event in 2011, the RSX was the only class that did not get the full number of entries allocated to it. That was something that I know was commented on by many within ISAF.

New Zealand did this in multihulls... Money was tight and the chance for a medal was low... so no entry. Does ISAF have some idea of the cost benefit analysis countries use when they evaluate the number of slots/competition for the medals.

 

I suspect that if there is a lock for a medal(s) ... you might not want to send your team..... I do think that I would view a homocide in this case as justifiable though...

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If you look at the whole nomination thing it is a joke. It is not about the best it is about being inclusive. So much for the Olympic spirit about being the best.

So what would you suggest. I cannot think of a better system. First, you publish a spec. The spec for the womens skiff was wide enough to allow for whatever your definition of "best" might be. ISAF can only evaluate boats put forward, complete with a business plan on how the class will be supplied and run. They then let the sailors loose. In this recent trials, the 49erFX got a clear recommendation from teh sailors, above and beyond all the other boats. The sailors weren't muppets. Is it that hard to see that the FX is the best boat that was on offer? There is enough comment on the multi selection, but it should be pointed out that the boat most thought should get teh nod did get the nod. Go back to when the 49er was selected. I was there. It was by far the best boat. It was the fastest, most difficult and most exhilerating to sail.

 

If the selections had been about "inclusion", we would have seen the 29erXX and the Viper selected. Back in the day of the 49er trials, we would probably have got the Laser 5000, Boss or B14 if it was about "inclusion".

 

So, tell us how it could have been done different.

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Windsurfers should know their heroes.

 

Voting, as far as I can make out.

 

Kite

 

David Tillett AUS

Kamen Filyov BUL

Fiona Kidd CAN

Jane Moon CAY

Hecto Duval DOM ?

Gerado Seegler ESP

Kurt Lonnquist FIN

Ajay Balram IND

John Crebbin IRL

Albero Predieri ITA

Stig Sith NOR

Eric Tulla PUR

Khalifa Al-Sewaidi QAT

Ross Robson RSA

Teo-Pong Low SIN

Charles Cook USA

David Irish USA

Cory Sertl USA

Teresa Lara VEN

 

 

Windsurfer

 

Pablo Masseroni ARG

Patrick Bergmans BEL

Abraham Rosemberg BRA

Peter Hall CAN

Jacques Lehn FRA

Jean-Pierre Champion FRA

Rolf Bahr GER

George Andreadis GRE

Chris Atkins GBR

Carlo Croce ITA

Takao Otani JPN

Ralph Roberts NZL

Tomasz Chamera POL

Tomasz Holc POL

Oleg Ilyin RUS

Tatjana Antoncic SLO

Nazli Imre TUR

 

Absent ?

 

Ben Barger USA

Helen Wilkes IRL

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It staggers me that with the revelations about the boardsailing vote

 

 

 

What revelations - that the Spanish rep is either a moron or full of shit?

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Windsurfers should know their heroes.

 

Voting, as far as I can make out.

 

Kite

 

David Tillett AUS

Kamen Filyov BUL

Fiona Kidd CAN

Jane Moon CAY

Hecto Duval DOM ?

Gerado Seegler ESP

Kurt Lonnquist FIN

Ajay Balram IND

John Crebbin IRL

Albero Predieri ITA

Stig Sith NOR

Eric Tulla PUR

Khalifa Al-Sewaidi QAT

Ross Robson RSA

Teo-Pong Low SIN

Charles Cook USA

David Irish USA

Cory Sertl USA

Teresa Lara VEN

 

 

Windsurfer

 

Pablo Masseroni ARG

Patrick Bergmans BEL

Abraham Rosemberg BRA

Peter Hall CAN

Jacques Lehn FRA

Jean-Pierre Champion FRA

Rolf Bahr GER

George Andreadis GRE

Chris Atkins GBR

Carlo Croce ITA

Takao Otani JPN

Ralph Roberts NZL

Tomasz Chamera POL

Tomasz Holc POL

Oleg Ilyin RUS

Tatjana Antoncic SLO

Nazli Imre TUR

 

Absent ?

 

Ben Barger USA

Helen Wilkes IRL

 

 

How/Why does Canada split their vote... The US reps were given their marching orders and they voted as a block.

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79% of coucil members voted for kiting when their countries had 0 rsx sailors in top 25

 

That says it all!

It had nothing to do with the best or most affordable equipment, TV friendliness, bringing sport to masses, development of sport, blah blah blah .... the usual BS we keep hearing over and over again.

It was only about some countrie's potential chances to succeed and get medal in a different discipline. If they had to choose between sailboard and tricycle, they would have probably chosen tricycle.

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So this is somethinmg we can agree on. I think it was a mistake to get rid of windsurfing, but I also think the windsurfing community needs to be careful how it goes about campaigning to get back in. For instance, i have read many windsurfers say that the loss of olympic status will kill the sport. If that is true, which I don't believe, then teh sport has no place in the Olympics. You cannot have sports that only exist because of the olympics. The olympics needs to represent sports that are succesful in their own right. Of course, windsurfing is. You know that and have seen it in many locations on teh south coast of the UK (unless things have changed in the last 5 years). Having said that, I do now see more kites out here in Oz than I see windsurfers, but that doesn't mean windsurfing is dead. It should never have been a choice between the 2 sports, although I am not sure how both could be fitted into the number of events that ISAF has.

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How/Why does Canada split their vote... The US reps were given their marching orders and they voted as a block.

 

CAN was doing what council members are supposed to do - vote for what they think is right, not what their MNA tells them.

 

It's easy to be cynical about this decision - in fact it is hard not to be. That said, I'm not sure how countries can be accused of voting for kite-surfing on the basis of medal prospects when course racing of kites barely exists as a sport, hence anybody who thinks they have a clue right now where likely medallists may come from is delusional.

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Ben & Helen were not absent but abstained (conflict of interest)

 

OK. There was a column for "abstain" and they weren't marked in that.

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It staggers me that with the revelations about the boardsailing vote

 

 

 

What revelations - that the Spanish rep is either a moron or full of shit?

 

 

So Clean, explain to me why the article mentions one Spanish person and the delegate is another, 2 Spanish morons or a case of a delegate not voting the way the Spanish president wanted? Is there more to this story than you have reported.

 

A comment regarding the correlation between the nationalities of the delegates and the windsurfing ranking: This can be a bit misleading. Looking at the nationalities of the delagates, there are <40 nations while ISAF has some 175 member nations. So all countries do not have a vote, i.e. delegates represent a group of nations. So the Finnish representative represents 6 nations so it is simply wrong to correlate his vote to the ranking of a Finnish windsurfer as he probably votes for the collective opinion of the Sailing Federations of those 6 nations. And some of the names on the list have other representation such as the ISAF executive which voted in its entirety on the kites as far as I can see.

 

A little more accuracy with conclusions and digging in finding the entire story would be nice.

 

The Spanish delegate Mr Seeliger is a former Finn class, 49er class president and still the 29er class (?) president btw.

 

 

DG

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^

 

According to http://www.vsail.inf...f-kiteboarding/ the vote was cast by Gerardo Seeliger whereas (as translated by vssail)

 

Despite this, at the last moment the Spanish representative in the ISAF Council gave his vote for the kite, an error caused by the confusion of the voting system. The federation president, Gerardo Pombo, takes responsibility for this error and wants to apologize to all Spanish windsurfers.

 

It would seem that those who assumed Gerado Pombo cast the vote were jumping to conclusions.

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^

 

According to http://www.vsail.inf...f-kiteboarding/ the vote was cast by Gerardo Seeliger whereas (as translated by vssail)

 

Despite this, at the last moment the Spanish representative in the ISAF Council gave his vote for the kite, an error caused by the confusion of the voting system. The federation president, Gerardo Pombo, takes responsibility for this error and wants to apologize to all Spanish windsurfers.

 

It would seem that those who assumed Gerado Pombo cast the vote were jumping to conclusions.

 

I was the one who originally misinterpreted the Spanish federation actual voter in post # 5 !!!

 

Besides the fact that Pombo is assuming responsibility and still at stake.

Spanish blogger Jaime Soler goes even further in one of his latest posts, as linked by the french windsurfing press.

Jaime Soler's

 

Sounds like an even worst plot !

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IMO

 

First...Pumbo is there because he has lots of spare time and cash, and no one else wants the job...

 

Second, there are lots of ways for the O to evolve, and Kites and so on are not the correct venue...in fact, the move will hurt the sailing event, and likely the entire program...I cashed out, that is for certain.

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Windsurfers should know their heroes.

 

Voting, as far as I can make out.

 

Kite

 

David Tillett AUS

Kamen Filyov BUL

Fiona Kidd CAN

Jane Moon CAY

Hecto Duval DOM ?

Gerado Seegler ESP

Kurt Lonnquist FIN

Ajay Balram IND

John Crebbin IRL

Albero Predieri ITA

Stig Sith NOR

Eric Tulla PUR

Khalifa Al-Sewaidi QAT

Ross Robson RSA

Teo-Pong Low SIN

Charles Cook USA

David Irish USA

Cory Sertl USA

Teresa Lara VEN

 

 

Windsurfer

 

Pablo Masseroni ARG

Patrick Bergmans BEL

Abraham Rosemberg BRA

Peter Hall CAN

Jacques Lehn FRA

Jean-Pierre Champion FRA

Rolf Bahr GER

George Andreadis GRE

Chris Atkins GBR

Carlo Croce ITA

Takao Otani JPN

Ralph Roberts NZL

Tomasz Chamera POL

Tomasz Holc POL

Oleg Ilyin RUS

Tatjana Antoncic SLO

Nazli Imre TUR

 

Absent ?

 

Ben Barger USA

Helen Wilkes IRL

 

How come some countries have more than one vote? US has 4 votes.

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Locals adding sails to their ice skates here, that too is O qualified? Why not ice boating decades ago? Long established activity...please, wind surf, kiting is about being fleet, end of it. Such bull to churn revenues from children. Last woof on this boring topic.

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Locals adding sails to their ice skates here, that too is O qualified? Why not ice boating decades ago? Long established activity...please, wind surf, kiting is about being fleet, end of it. Such bull to churn revenues from children. Last woof on this boring topic.

 

Evolve?

Did you mean being fit? If so, isn't that what the Olympics are all about?

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Locals adding sails to their ice skates here, that too is O qualified? Why not ice boating decades ago? Long established activity...please, wind surf, kiting is about being fleet, end of it. Such bull to churn revenues from children. Last woof on this boring topic.

 

Evolve?

Did you mean being fit? If so, isn't that what the Olympics are all about?

 

Is it really that simple, fitness (assuming you imply physical fitness)...perhaps that is the problem, that some think it so? Perhaps some other factors need be considered?

 

Really, none of this tete-a-tete means squat, as the Olympics is now like American politics, money oriented solely. Was a time when it was not so, and not so political...before my time, even.

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CAN was doing what council members are supposed to do - vote for what they think is right, not what their MNA tells them.

 

...

 

That shows CAN sailing is all over the faking map, no?

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How/Why does Canada split their vote... The US reps were given their marching orders and they voted as a block.

 

CAN was doing what council members are supposed to do - vote for what they think is right, not what their MNA tells them.

 

It's easy to be cynical about this decision - in fact it is hard not to be. That said, I'm not sure how countries can be accused of voting for kite-surfing on the basis of medal prospects when course racing of kites barely exists as a sport, hence anybody who thinks they have a clue right now where likely medallists may come from is delusional.

Bull shit. The US has a deep deep bench of the best kite coarse racers on the planet.

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The US has a deep deep bench of the best kite coarse racers on the planet.

 

If you don't understand the difference between a couple of dozen sailors having fun and what it takes to win Olympic medals - for which natural talent is a necessary but not a sufficient consideration - prepare to be schooled in 2016. If, of course, this decision actually holds.

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Why not Team Racing? The rules are easy for the Joe Six-pack novice: 3 boats on 3 boats and get your country's boats to the finish line first by screwing up the other country. Quick races with no goddamn commercials! What could be better?

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Well, kiteboard jousting for example.

 

Another winner could be kiteboard shark jumping.

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Or for a serious answer: maybe combine a freestyle subjective evaluation round in surf with a triangle course that's about 130-140 degrees to the wind, direct across the wind, then 60 degrees upwind or whatever so as to keep the speeds hot.

 

Then jousting as the final elimination match.

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Delagates have admitted they misunderstood the vote language difficulties played a part. Some delegates have admitted they voted the wrong way by mistake. What a shitfight. Australian sailing officials say they are surprised but the Aussie delegate voted for kites ? 5 ring circus !!!!

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The sky is falling! The sky is falling! I would like to find ONE SINGLE COMPLAINER that doesn't either have potential medalists on their national windsurf team or a financial stake in the outcome. Listening to Prydey you'd think that we're all about to die from an asteroid if the vote isn't changed. But this article from a HK newspaper has some really interesting gems.

 

SAILING COULD BE NEXT FOR AXE

 

 

Former Olympian and millionaire businessman Neil Pryde has warned sailing is in danger of being kicked out of the Olympics as the fallout continues from the controversial decision to dump windsurfing in favour of kiteboarding for the 2016 Games.

 

Pryde says the International Sailing Federation (ISAF) has made a terrible and unfathomable decision and accused it of "selfishness". "The ISAF is represented by all member countries and most come from the yacht brigade. What they have done is to safeguard their narrow interests and sacrificed windsurfing. What they don't realise is the whole sport of sailing is in danger of being kicked out of the Olympics," said the 71-year-old Pryde, whose name is attached to the RSX windsurfing discipline which will be seen for the last time at the London Olympics.

 

"From a business perspective it doesn't impact me as I will continue to provide the sailing equipment.

 

"But from a personal point of view, I think it is a terrible decision for the sport of sailing as a whole. It's an absolute disgrace."

 

Pressure from the International Olympic Committee is seen as the reason why the ISAF has jumped the gun. Having placed a cap on the number of sports at the summer Olympics - 28 - the IOC has also made it clear all sports have to be commercially viable. And for this, television is the key.

 

"The main source of revenue for the IOC is from television and as far as sailing is concerned, it scores poorly in TV ratings," Pryde said.

 

"On top of this, the IOC is also against sports which are regarded as elitist. They want sports for the people. Unfortunately sailing is regarded as elitist, the 'yacht class'."

 

Windsurfing is virtually the poor man's discipline in sailing.

 

All the equipment, which is provided free of charge for the Olympics by Pryde, is one-design and is far cheaper than a dinghy or a laser boat, other classes at the Olympics.

 

Pryde is adamant windsurfing has helped raise the profile of sailing, and more importantly changed a long-held perception the sport was only for the upper-crust gentry, those from the "yacht class".

 

"Windsurfing has been in the Olympics for more than 25 years and it has helped introduce sailing to a wider audience," Pryde said.

 

"Just look at China, who came into sailing through windsurfing and today is challenging for the America's Cup.

 

"This discipline has helped countries from Thailand to India come into the sport and it is sad the ISAF has totally ignored this fact.

 

"It is a selfish decision made purely to protect certain sailing classes already in the Games," he said.

 

The Hong Kong-based sailing enthusiast, whose company Pryde Group employs more than 2,500 people in 40 different countries, is a world leader in the marine and adventure sports markets with an annual turnover of HK$1 billion.

 

He sailed for Hong Kong in the Flying Dutchman class - with Peter Gamble - at the 1968 Olympics in Mexico and, until Lee Lai-shan won a gold medal in windsurfing at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, held the best result in sailing, a 13th-place finish.

 

His business interests allow him free access to the corridors of power in the sailing world and Pryde was present two years ago at an ISAF council meeting in Athens when the move began to get kiteboarding into the Olympics as a separate discipline.

 

Pryde said: "Originally the idea was for sailing to ask for another medal at the Olympics by introducing kiteboarding.

 

"There was no talk of replacing windsurfing, but somehow, over the years, things have evolved and with the number of athletes at the Olympics being restricted, this has unfortunately occurred.

 

"While kiteboarding is a great sport, it is quite immature. There is no structure, no organisation and no youth development.

 

"And the plan was to introduce kiteboarding by the 2020 Games, not in 2016. Fast-forwarding a still developing sport is totally ridiculous."

 

The switch must still be approved by the IOC, but with the technical aspects of sports generally left to the discretion of the federations, it is highly unlikely they will intervene on behalf of windsurfing.

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But if Israel, Spain and Venezuela had voted as they now had, then this change wouldn't have occurred. In fact, it would have been the perfect warning shot to the RS:X (and windsurfing by association) to sort their shit out and get more visual for 2020. If they then ignored it, fair enough... game over.

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It indeed would be tough to find one single complainer -- even on this forum alone! -- that isn't complaining from the basis of their better national chances of winning a windsurfing medal, or having financial stake in the outcome.

 

Nailed it.

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I would like to find ONE SINGLE COMPLAINER that doesn't either have potential medalists on their national windsurf team or a financial stake in the outcome.

 

Expect to see more letters in the near future. There are lots of talk between various NAs going on.

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But if Israel, Spain and Venezuela had voted as they now had, then this change wouldn't have occurred. In fact, it would have been the perfect warning shot to the RS:X (and windsurfing by association) to sort their shit out and get more visual for 2020. If they then ignored it, fair enough... game over.

 

Brace - you're not reading carefully. Israel DID NOT claim they mis-voted, nor did Venezuela. They both claimed that the Spanish misvoted, as did the Spanish - though Pierre showed, that was a pretty blatant lie.

 

Maybe the system that gives a delegate from one country the power to bind 7 is broken (wouldn't be a surprise, would it), but stick to what actually happened.

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From the Vsail article, precisely the only "evidence" given that they are lying and it was not a mistake is:

 

According to reports we had received, Seeliger had given a speech in favor of kiteboarding prior to the vote and had Gerardo Pombo, President of the Spanish federation, sitting behind him during the meeting. The information regarding the speech was also confirmed by the federation spokeswoman. However, according to her, Seeliger's speech was in favor of adding it, together with windsurf and not in substitution of it. If the two disciplines can coexist, the Spanish federation would be in favor of it but opposed to windusrf getting dropped. It appears, according to the Spanish federation, that Seeliger thought that what was voted was the addition of kiteboard.

Again, it is extremely difficult to believe that a person with Seeliger's credentials and qualifications would make such a childish mistake.

 

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circumstantial evidence is still evidence.

 

1) Seeligson speaks English

2) None of the other delegates had such a strange 'problem' despite the claim that it was Oh, So Confusing.

3) Pierre was specifically told that he could not speak to Seeliger.

4) RFEV President Pombo was sitting right behind him during the vote.

5) Seeliger actually made a speech in support of kites.

 

I actually am happy with the Spanish vote and the vote in general. There is nothing sillier than watching boarders pump their sails around an entire course. It ain't sailing, it's rowing.

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There is nothing sillier than watching boarders pump their sails around an entire course. It ain't sailing, it's rowing.

 

quite agree, but banning or controlling pumping (in all classes) is a different issue.

 

As far as I see it, the windsurfers have just given up trying to police it and that's the sticking point with some ISAF / sailing big wigs. However this could be addressed, as it has been in the finns, with a clear windspeed limit before pumping's allowed, even then, in moderation.

 

I wonder how much policing will go on when the kities are doing that sining-thing with their kites in feck all wind to stop their boards sinking? Is this pumping? It's certainly kinetic energy so will ISAF need write a new rule in the kite racing appendix?

 

As for your other points about reading more carefully... I really CBA, top-line, they've seen fit to renounce the initial decision by their reps. That takes guts, and gives them almost more credibility for having the gumption to listen to their sailors and address it. And no, ISAF being a bit fucked-up wouldn't surprise me, the stupid arses didn't even listen to their own events committee who wholly rejected kiteboard racing as too new and unproven.

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Look, Windsurfing and Kite sailing maybe "sailing" but only in its narrowest sense.

 

 

None of this BS will make any difference anyway...if the O group is looking for young advocates, this will not be a pimple within the scale of things.

 

Overall, the Olympics has lost its charm for this dodger.

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Ok, this might sound silly to some of you, but...

 

Did anyone ever considered the possibility that some of the votes were "bought" by <......> in exchange for <.......>?

That would at least partially explain the odd behaviour of some of the voters. Seeliger and Anzola aren't the only ones, vote by Kamen Filyov of BUL seems to be equally strange, considering how strong and widespread the windsurfing is in the region he represented.

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"From a business perspective it doesn't impact me as I will continue to provide the sailing equipment"

 

The rsx is a duck out of water with out the Olympics.

Hard to see the class surviving beyond 2015 and the youth events already scheduled.

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a cabrina one design kite board with np as the supplier.

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the rumour I heard was that North Sails Kites was the shoe-in for the one design slot (if it goes that way...) gotta love internet rumours.

 

At the moment the kities are hanging on to their box rule, it all depends what ISAF have to say about that, or when/if the medals start going out and then you get the sour grapes brigade spouting shite about equipment being superior.... hardly Olympian ideals, more Bernie Eccelstone. hey maybe that's Richard Branson's big picture.... Kite F1.

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Look, Windsurfing and Kite sailing maybe "sailing" but only in its narrowest sense.

 

??? WTF ?

How so?

Errrrr, what's that you sail?

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I dunno GUI, I know folks who'd agree with him. For them windsurfing and kiting are much more aligned to surfing and wave riding- the sail/kite just a lazy ass way to get out back before heading in again.

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I dunno GUI, I know folks who'd agree with him. For them windsurfing and kiting are much more aligned to surfing and wave riding- the sail/kite just a lazy ass way to get out back before heading in again.

 

 

Surfing? On an RSX? On an Exocet RS D2? Well, I suppose in that case Contenders aren't sailing boats either. Heck, did I see a Volvo 70 catching a wave? Not sailing boats either. Doesn't leave much.

 

IMO a windsurfer is just a high performance single-hander with a better rig and higher power to weight ratio than most other dinghies. Sure, there are some niche crazies who have adapted them to the surf, but that's not how they started out, not how they became popular and even today is not the mainstream. Actually, I'm buggered if I know why the Moth association voted out freestanding rigs back in the '80's, when they're clearly superior and definitely within the Moth box rule as it was conceived at the time. I mean, this is a class where your boat doesn't even have to touch the water, so why quibble over stays?

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Hi ya Jaime,

 

I was referring more to the 70L quad-fin, custom-shaped wave board crowd and only sail twice a year in 'perfect conditions', who try their damnedest to disassociate themselves from windsurfing's 'sailing' roots and folks like me who like to doss around on boats and boards.... you know, the type of tosser who will argue over the difference between (in their eyes) proper windsurfing, and what I do, 'board sailing'.

 

I was just acknowledging there are different points of view out there, certainly not agreeing with them- I actually totally agree with you've just posted above!

 

All the best,

 

Jimbo

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Cool Jimbo, I'm with ya. The tossers and the manufacturers who are after their money have defined the sport for far too long, so I just had to say something.

 

 

Edit: lol, just realised we just had the exact same discussion on your blog. Gotta get myself some new opinons...:)

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"Just look at China, who came into sailing through windsurfing and today is challenging for the America's Cup.

 

 

Prydey is clearly on drugs.

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There is nothing sillier than watching boarders pump their sails around an entire course. It ain't sailing, it's rowing.

 

As a former sailboard racer, when everyone can pump as hard as each other, the playing field evens out and it's a sailboat race again with all the same puffs, windshifts, strategy, and tactics. He who has pressure and angle (while pumping) will probably be ahead of he who does not. Those guys are bad asses at the top level.

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I'm not saying they're not bad asses. Just that air rowing doesn't make sense to me as a sailing discipline. Maybe as another rowing discipline...

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I'm not saying they're not bad asses. Just that air rowing doesn't make sense to me as a sailing discipline. Maybe as another rowing discipline...

If your going to have racing in non planning conditions- there's always going to be pumping.

Pumping been legal since '92 when they switched from d2 to the imco.

Pumping is what makes the rs-x so athletic.

An olympic worthy asset- debatable, but if you're going to make windsurfing accessible and have regattas around the world in light wind locations, this is likely the only alternative that works.

 

 

However if you make a more efficient rig (formula) your planning threshold will lower and basically eliminate pumping.

Nobody pumps with a 12.0m rig- it planes in 6-7k. Sure you've got to pump it a few times to get it up on a plane but its not the air rowing the rsx is doing.

 

No doubt the kites have closed the gap but when it drops to 3-5k the kites fall out of the sky while the formula board is still able to shlog in and the rsx is able to pump in.

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I saw somewhere that the decision could be revered by the ISAF meeting in November, if true maybe the whole bun fight is a means for the old guard to just dump the sailboard and put the Star back in AGAIN. Just speculating?