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      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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Baldur

Racing boat having a SERIOUS problem

23 posts in this topic

Insurers must be getting very nervous about covering the designers builders and owners of these large racing yachts. Rambler 100, Bounder, Jelik almost all VOR 70's to one degree or another have suffered serious failures.

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Insurers must be getting very nervous about covering the designers builders and owners of these large racing yachts. Rambler 100, Bounder, Jelik almost all VOR 70's to one degree or another have suffered serious failures.

 

 

manufacturers defect & design flaws are commonly excluded from marine policies. I would be surprised if any insurers paid claims on the boats mentioned.

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Are you suggesting that boat builders do not carry defective product liability insurance cover?

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Are you suggesting that boat builders do not carry defective product liability insurance cover?

Hard if not impossible in most cases to prove why it failed. Design, build or misuse? Take a road car to a track day and your warranty and insurance won't cover you. Take a boat sailing and the pros will push it as hard as they can. Proving whether they pushed too hard or whether something broke before they pushed as hard as expected and designed/built for is a very hard thing to prove.

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Insurers must be getting very nervous about covering the designers builders and owners of these large racing yachts. Rambler 100, Bounder, Jelik almost all VOR 70's to one degree or another have suffered serious failures.

 

 

Almost starting to make multihulls look safe:ph34r:

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Are you suggesting that boat builders do not carry defective product liability insurance cover?

 

My initial comment was pertaining to the boat owners policy.

 

The builder may or may not carry products liability coverage. But the BG incident would not be covered by that.

you would need to have a bodily injury or property damage to trigger that coverage. ( a crack in the hull would not be

an example of a property damage)

 

The builder may also have a warranty type policy for their products, but it would be highly doubtful as the premium

would be astronomical vs the cost to repair a manufacturers defect on a single hull. That coverage is designed for manufacturers who

have thousands of units in the market which could have a defect, where their recal and replacement/repair cost would put

the Co out of biz...

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If a boat can be proven to have been built to a lesser specification to her design specification do you think that the builder could be liable for the loss of the boat? I would have thought that it would be very hard for a builder to protect himself in such circumstances by exemption provisions. Most countries recognize that if there is a fundamental breach of contract you cannot avoid the consequences. Similarly, if an engineer under specs a component in a boat and it fails I would think that he would be in a difficulty. In the case in hand a floating hull is a very worrying situation for builder, designer and insurer.

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Less room for argument!!

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Classic fatigue failure:

 

Structure fails in normal use, with no obvious sign of an extraordinary load ("it was just a normal wave, not a huge one")

Structure fails with little or no warning

Structure fails catastrophically

Structure shows no previous visible sign of degradation

 

Design specifications are usually load related. FED / CFD can't model fatigue, just static and maybe impact loads. If BG is a fatigue failure - and theres a good chance it is, then the fact that the boat has sailed 55,000 miles or more has to be a major factor.

 

Did the design specs anticipate that level of programmed use? Were they even asked to? Did the owner decide he loves sailing the boat so much that it's done many more miles than originally envisaged? Did delivery miles eat up the structure's fatigue life? Could the designer have envisaged that?

 

From another angle: brittle structures are inherently fatigue prone. Fact. Many new composite marine structures are using relatively new materials and techniques. Fact. These new styles of boats perform vastly differently to older design types and go vastly faster, generating many more and more complex load cases. Fact. Is it possible that the fatigue lives of these structures are simply not yet well understood by designers and structural engineers?

 

I wonder how many of the VO70 failures are fatigue related? Sometomes sailing a boat for months beforehand to test it in the run up to a big event is the last thing you want to be doing.

 

Movistar? Rambler? Sanya? Plenty more...

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Classic fatigue failure:

 

Structure fails in normal use, with no obvious sign of an extraordinary load ("it was just a normal wave, not a huge one")

Structure fails with little or no warning

Structure fails catastrophically

Structure shows no previous visible sign of degradation

 

Design specifications are usually load related. FED / CFD can't model fatigue, just static and maybe impact loads. If BG is a fatigue failure - and theres a good chance it is, then the fact that the boat has sailed 55,000 miles or more has to be a major factor.

 

Did the design specs anticipate that level of programmed use? Were they even asked to? Did the owner decide he loves sailing the boat so much that it's done many more miles than originally envisaged? Did delivery miles eat up the structure's fatigue life? Could the designer have envisaged that?

 

From another angle: brittle structures are inherently fatigue prone. Fact. Many new composite marine structures are using relatively new materials and techniques. Fact. These new styles of boats perform vastly differently to older design types and go vastly faster, generating many more and more complex load cases. Fact. Is it possible that the fatigue lives of these structures are simply not yet well understood by designers and structural engineers?

 

I wonder how many of the VO70 failures are fatigue related? Sometomes sailing a boat for months beforehand to test it in the run up to a big event is the last thing you want to be doing.

 

Movistar? Rambler? Sanya? Plenty more...

 

It does make you wonder, how many of the new breed of yachts will be around in 15-20 years? How will backpacker operations live without the steady flow of 15-20 year old racing boats

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Considering these type of failures maybe the backpacker operations are as well off.

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That will buff out. Thats simular to Nokia Zana Lahana when she pulled out of the Sydney Hobart with failure. How much do you cut out of that to be repaired?

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4 days later the boat is anchored in Norfolk Island.Professional crew still there. Has not sunk so yet again why all this drama that it is fucked? Where did that miss informationcomr from?

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Generally in design/build contracts I have seen Owner agrees that this is a RACING boat and as such is inherently designed to absolute limit blah blah... and no liability shall attach to the designer or builder in case of failure. I agree that if the builder forgot a few layers of carbon there might be a case for the Owner, but if the boat was built to design it's hard to get the designer to pay anything.

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Has not sunk so yet again why all this drama that it is fucked?

 

From the pics I've seen - it looks fucked to me! when a boat has a crack across the deck, down the sides and under the boat - that's fucked!

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So anyway, rumour has it that the weather is turning to shit in Norfolk and the boats there will have to leave. I understand icebreaker has had repairs done to the bulkhead and will head to NZ for further remedy then to hamilton island. I also understand that a crew of boat builders from NZ re working on bg to get her into a position where she may be capable of heading back to NZ. Will e interesting to see how this goes!

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Where did you hear that Danno? Boat is definitely coming back

 

 

 

So anyway, rumour has it that the weather is turning to shit in Norfolk and the boats there will have to leave. I understand icebreaker has had repairs done to the bulkhead and will head to NZ for further remedy then to hamilton island. I also understand that a crew of boat builders from NZ re working on bg to get her into a position where she may be capable of heading back to NZ. Will e interesting to see how this goes!

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That will buff out. Thats simular to Nokia Zana Lahana when she pulled out of the Sydney Hobart with failure. How much do you cut out of that to be repaired?

 

Zana was never Nokia.

 

Zana - Konica Minolta - Lahana

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Where did you hear that Danno? Boat is definitely coming back

 

 

 

So anyway, rumour has it that the weather is turning to shit in Norfolk and the boats there will have to leave. I understand icebreaker has had repairs done to the bulkhead and will head to NZ for further remedy then to hamilton island. I also understand that a crew of boat builders from NZ re working on bg to get her into a position where she may be capable of heading back to NZ. Will e interesting to see how this goes!

 

You are correct. My bad. BG heading to NZ after a Dave Norris bandaid job.

Icebreaker now heading to Brisbane

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Lahana broke again a couple of Sydney southports ago, more weight put in!!

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