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Tejano

NOOD/Sailing World/USSA Do We Even Care Anymore?

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It was refreshing to see Clean's report on something positive happening in the US sailing scene with the inaugural BOD Regatta. When the NOOD dropped Houston couple years ago, the locals there organized a "HOOD" (Houston Offshore One Design) to replace it. The cost went down and the participation went up. Same locale, same weather, new management. With the rise of CRW, BOD, and HOOD and the demise of NOOD and KWRW, it would appear the traditional powers that be in the US sailing community are becoming increasingly irrelevant, while local sailors willing to step up and organize their own events are saving us money and offering grass-roots alternative. Now, if SA will just bring back the ISAF and promote a series of them around the country.

 

IMHO

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You all do realize that the management for all practical purposes at a NOOD event is the local YC. Sailing world does not bring in RC, they use local Sailing Instructions, catering is done by the club, etc... Sailing world does the advertising, prints all the materials and does the admin work. AND they get the sponsers.

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Not if they drop your locale like a hot potato, like they did Houston. In that case, they don't provide squat.

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As I understand it, Bayview started realizing they were doing a lot of the heavy lifting and not getting much in return. Most of the money flowed out to Sailing World. And as Clean pointed out it was very homogenized and inflexible. The BOD was tailored to the local fleets which I'm sure was a huge reason for the extra participation.

 

NOOD might still work just fine for some of the other fleets. But after the BOD example I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see a couple clubs re-examine their affiliation with NOOD.

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You all do realize that the management for all practical purposes at a NOOD event is the local YC. Sailing world does not bring in RC, they use local Sailing Instructions, catering is done by the club, etc... Sailing world does the advertising, prints all the materials and does the admin work. AND they get the sponsers.

 

 

You do realize that they require a US Sailing membership in order to race?

 

This extortion constitutes much of the membership in US Sailing. Without stealth membership requirements like this one, US Sailing would die as few support it.

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Yet another "back in the day" post here. We all USED TO organize locally and keep costs low. You run it how YOU want and the money stays with the local clubs. It worked then and it seems to work now too B)

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You all do realize that the management for all practical purposes at a NOOD event is the local YC. Sailing world does not bring in RC, they use local Sailing Instructions, catering is done by the club, etc... Sailing world does the advertising, prints all the materials and does the admin work. AND they get the sponsers.

 

 

You do realize that they require a US Sailing membership in order to race?

 

This extortion constitutes much of the membership in US Sailing. Without stealth membership requirements like this one, US Sailing would die as few support it.

 

Key West is the same way and you don't hear anyone bitching about that one.

Question for you - if US Sailing died would we be better off with just ISAF and no MNA?

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You all do realize that the management for all practical purposes at a NOOD event is the local YC. Sailing world does not bring in RC, they use local Sailing Instructions, catering is done by the club, etc... Sailing world does the advertising, prints all the materials and does the admin work. AND they get the sponsers.

 

 

You do realize that they require a US Sailing membership in order to race?

 

This extortion constitutes much of the membership in US Sailing. Without stealth membership requirements like this one, US Sailing would die as few support it.

 

Well ... at least USSailing doesn't allow foreigners in.

 

And, I thought BYC banned Block and SA after the dustup at last years BYC MAC?

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You all do realize that the management for all practical purposes at a NOOD event is the local YC. Sailing world does not bring in RC, they use local Sailing Instructions, catering is done by the club, etc... Sailing world does the advertising, prints all the materials and does the admin work. AND they get the sponsers.

 

 

You do realize that they require a US Sailing membership in order to race?

 

This extortion constitutes much of the membership in US Sailing. Without stealth membership requirements like this one, US Sailing would die as few support it.

 

Key West is the same way and you don't hear anyone bitching about that one.

Question for you - if US Sailing died would we be better off with just ISAF and no MNA?

 

No one bitches about KWRW?

 

What planet are you from?

 

KWRW was a great event in a great venue. Today, not so much and way to expensive.

 

And yes, they are a part of the stealth membership drive by US Sailing. Let's all be real here, the membership claimed by US Sailing is a total joke. They learned about extortion from the Family.

 

To answer your question, when (not "if") US Sailing collapses from it's own bloated overhead and entrenched Board, it will be supplanted by an organization more along the lines of USYRU. The elections will be more open and allow other voices to be heard rather than just the self-proclimed sailing establishment - who have managed to avoid doing anything worthwhile for many years now.

 

We all had hopes that Gary could change things, but, no, the entrenched nature of the ByLaws were effective in maintaining the status quo and pre-empting any meaningfull change. So gary will leave USS having failed to effectively challenge the wizards behind the drapes pulling all the levers. You have to hand it to Capron and his cohorts - they really were able to exert an iron fisted control over the organization. And, of course, as a consequence, sailing in the US has been reduced to a footnote in the annals of Olympic records. Nice work Deano!

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Both KWRW and the NOOD regattas are owned by for-profit companies - Premiere Racing Inc., and Bonnier Inc. US Sailing membership, (not USSA that's US Skiing and Snowboarding btw)is required as they are sanctioned events. As US Sailing sanctioned events, the for-profit companies are able to purchase their regatta liability insurance at a rate that a not for profit club or other sailing organization is able to and not at a commercial rate. If they had to buy at a commercial rate, registration fees would increase more than the cost of an adult membership.

 

And yes, they need to purchase insurance even if a club also has a insurance policy. Also, only the Annapolis NOOD (AYC) and Marblehead NOOD (MRA) share being the Organizing Authority with Sailing World. The rest of the events use the clubs as only the host site and which may include race management.

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Seriously - KWRW has to be the most bitched about thing ever on SA.

 

Well, I think it would come in third after DoRag and Espo.....

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Both KWRW and the NOOD regattas are owned by for-profit companies - Premiere Racing Inc., and Bonnier Inc. US Sailing membership, (not USSA that's US Skiing and Snowboarding btw)is required as they are sanctioned events. As US Sailing sanctioned events, the for-profit companies are able to purchase their regatta liability insurance at a rate that a not for profit club or other sailing organization is able to and not at a commercial rate. If they had to buy at a commercial rate, registration fees would increase more than the cost of an adult membership.

 

And yes, they need to purchase insurance even if a club also has a insurance policy. Also, only the Annapolis NOOD (AYC) and Marblehead NOOD (MRA) share being the Organizing Authority with Sailing World. The rest of the events use the clubs as only the host site and which may include race management.

 

Perhaps, but I would think that premier could form a paper club or affiliate with a club. Whatever, there can be little rational for an insurance company not giving them the same rate as any host club.

 

USS likes to think they provide a valuable service and justify their existence with this insuance angle. Fact is, any association of YC's could duplicate what USS claims to have done. Period.

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Both KWRW and the NOOD regattas are owned by for-profit companies - Premiere Racing Inc., and Bonnier Inc. US Sailing membership, (not USSA that's US Skiing and Snowboarding btw)is required as they are sanctioned events. As US Sailing sanctioned events, the for-profit companies are able to purchase their regatta liability insurance at a rate that a not for profit club or other sailing organization is able to and not at a commercial rate. If they had to buy at a commercial rate, registration fees would increase more than the cost of an adult membership.

 

And yes, they need to purchase insurance even if a club also has a insurance policy. Also, only the Annapolis NOOD (AYC) and Marblehead NOOD (MRA) share being the Organizing Authority with Sailing World. The rest of the events use the clubs as only the host site and which may include race management.

Thanks for the accurate information!

 

The reason that these events were created and supported year after year was because they had management in place that could maintain the event at the same level. They delivered on the promise of a national regatta in your regions sailing schedule. In some cases they formed the basis of a travel circuit for big boats. Are they as unique as they once were as the best run event that you would go to that year... No! and that probably means that race management has improved in the region and closed the gap. (see US Sailing)

 

This was greatly appreciated because big events can be wildly successful one year but the volunteers struggle to maintain the effort year after year. Your average volunteer organization does not relish the thought of going out and soliciting sponsors. This is not a fun part of sail boat racing.

 

So, is the premium worth it?.... Is it worth the risk of dumping the management and replacing it with volunteers to save bucks? If you do go Ol school.... does it sustain with the same national participation?

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When the NOOD started, there was really only one way to reach racing sailors with a targeted message in large numbers. That was Sailing World. They provided marketing that no one else could, and the founders were all about providing something that yacht racing needed. As it became a business, the organizers concentrated more and more on cutting costs while increasing income from fees, ancillaries, and sponsorship. Since it costs a lot less to do the exact same thing 10 times than to do 10 different things, everything gradually became homogenized. With the brand-conscious Sperry as the title sponsor, everything gradually became sterilized. Not a great combination.

 

While all this was going on, Sailing World - once the groundbreaking and sport-fostering One Design Yachtsman magazine -- became a footnote in the history of American yacht racing. The same mass exodus that effected 95% of all print periodicals over the past decade took its toll on racing's biggest monthly, and instead of producing more content to try to win back disappointed readers, they produced less. Less information, less innovation, less creativity...but more ads. Their website has been an abject failure, with no interest in generating good content at a pace necessary to retain the viewers that stumble upon the site, and the fun, edgy spirit that characterized the publication's history has been gone for a long, long time. To compound matters, Sailing World (like Cruising World) was purchased by a publishing conglomerate that owns dozens and dozens of titles. So even if Dave Reed wanted to change things (and I genuinely think he and most of the other staff at SW wish they could do a lot more for sailing and their own jobs' relevance), he probably couldn't; it ain't a lean organization.

 

But here's the thing: With PR and marketing now available to anyone with a Wordpress account and a Sailing Anarchy handle, Sailing World is just too expensive for what they deliver. A 500$ ad on Sailing Anarchy will reach a million people over the course of a month or two, and a well-read thread on the forums might reach 50,000. The other sites have forums too, and are desperate for any content at all. Facebook is a massively useful tool, and the plain old telephone is still the most valuable tool for a regatta chairman. And what else did the NOOD organization really do besides marketing? Scoring? Call Yachtscoring. Judges? Your club was already doing it. Catering? Betcha your own YC's kitchen can do a better job for cheaper. Mount Gay Rum? Call 'em yourself, or call Gosling's. Your local, personal touch with a well thought out plan means your regatta will probably be more successful than the NOOD it replaces.

 

There is one catch: You either have to have incredible, driven volunteers or you have to spend some money on the people that get everyone to show up. Phone callers, marketers (social and conventional), missionaries at the other big regattas, people to post on websites and write content - it takes money or passion for these things to get done right. And when you start thinking "five year plan," you realize that you need to get videographers, editors, photographers, maybe even live coverage providers - to grow your event beyond your local area.

 

If no one has the motivation, you might as well stick with the NOOD.

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Is it worth the risk of dumping the management and replacing it with volunteers to save bucks? If you do go Ol school.... does it sustain with the same national participation?

I think the point is (and Charleston has proved) that you can have a largely volunteer staff to run the event so long as you have a few key professional people doing what they are best at. It's silly to think the average YC volunteer can create and maintain a strong social marketing effort for example, so you contract that out to someone. Same with video and photo and scoring. Just like you don't rely on volunteers to do your landscape maintenance, you don't rely on them to do the 8 months of hard work before anyone is even thinking about your regatta.

 

But it seems like you might save enough by ditching the NOOD to hire your own marketing/graphic/social people.

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Let the numbers speak for themselves.

Two days out, the Chicago NOOD is showing 129 entries.

http://www.regattanetwork.com/clubmgmt/applet_registrant_list.php?regatta_id=4702&custom_report_id=42

Gotta love the 31 T-Tens, or it would be under 100 boats in the fleet.

 

Looks like only 7 groups made it to the NOR requirement to get 7 boats for a real section: Ben 36, Ben 40.7, a combined GL 36 & Flying Tiger, the Farr 40's, J 111, J 109s and the bloody T-Tens. NO, I won't start the traditional NOOD "ghost boat" conversation here.

Note that 4 listed sections didn't even meet the NOR required 7 boats: Combined S2 9.1 and J30s, Level 35 (really J35s), J111 and the GL 70s.

 

You can draw your own conclusions.

Yes, A LOT is the economy. Has to be. But if I talk too much about that I get banished to Political Anarchy.... Don't want to go there

 

I sailed my first Chicago NOOD in 96. Haven't missed very many since. Got some great memories.

Not going down this year. For @ the last 8 years (+ or -) the price has gone up and the fun meter has gone down.

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129 huh? Guess what. Once Houston dropped to 100 in 2009, they were gone in 2010. Better start calling your buds or another NOOD might become a COOD.

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"If no one has the motivation, you might as well stick with the NOOD.". Nope, we're gonna call Clean and Company. We got the OTW report. We got the great photography (per Mer). We got the social media marketing. Since Scooters outta sailing now, he can drive the Anarchy Defender and set marks and monitoring rounds. Team SA Rocks.

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Let the numbers speak for themselves.

Two days out, the Chicago NOOD is showing 129 entries.

http://www.regattanetwork.com/clubmgmt/applet_registrant_list.php?regatta_id=4702&custom_report_id=42

Gotta love the 31 T-Tens, or it would be under 100 boats in the fleet.

 

Looks like only 7 groups made it to the NOR requirement to get 7 boats for a real section: Ben 36, Ben 40.7, a combined GL 36 & Flying Tiger, the Farr 40's, J 111, J 109s and the bloody T-Tens. NO, I won't start the traditional NOOD "ghost boat" conversation here.

Note that 4 listed sections didn't even meet the NOR required 7 boats: Combined S2 9.1 and J30s, Level 35 (really J35s), J111 and the GL 70s.

 

You can draw your own conclusions.

Yes, A LOT is the economy. Has to be. But if I talk too much about that I get banished to Political Anarchy.... Don't want to go there

 

I sailed my first Chicago NOOD in 96. Haven't missed very many since. Got some great memories.

Not going down this year. For @ the last 8 years (+ or -) the price has gone up and the fun meter has gone down.

 

 

It is strange that the days of 250 boats at the Chicago NOOD are gone, it was just 10 years ago. The other funny thing is back in the late 90's early 2000's they use to only get off 5 or 6 races for the whole weekend, parties were full though.

 

Now we do 8 races or more (hopefully) and the #'s keep dropping. So I guess either the fun is gone as Gaba talks about (I would agree not as fun as 10 years ago) or the cost of the NOOD/sailing is just too much for people around here.

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Let the numbers speak for themselves.

Two days out, the Chicago NOOD is showing 129 entries.

http://www.regattanetwork.com/clubmgmt/applet_registrant_list.php?regatta_id=4702&custom_report_id=42

Gotta love the 31 T-Tens, or it would be under 100 boats in the fleet.

 

Looks like only 7 groups made it to the NOR requirement to get 7 boats for a real section: Ben 36, Ben 40.7, a combined GL 36 & Flying Tiger, the Farr 40's, J 111, J 109s and the bloody T-Tens. NO, I won't start the traditional NOOD "ghost boat" conversation here.

Note that 4 listed sections didn't even meet the NOR required 7 boats: Combined S2 9.1 and J30s, Level 35 (really J35s), J111 and the GL 70s.

 

You can draw your own conclusions.

Yes, A LOT is the economy. Has to be. But if I talk too much about that I get banished to Political Anarchy.... Don't want to go there

 

I sailed my first Chicago NOOD in 96. Haven't missed very many since. Got some great memories.

Not going down this year. For @ the last 8 years (+ or -) the price has gone up and the fun meter has gone down.

 

 

It is strange that the days of 250 boats at the Chicago NOOD are gone, it was just 10 years ago. The other funny thing is back in the late 90's early 2000's they use to only get off 5 or 6 races for the whole weekend, parties were full though.

 

Now we do 8 races or more (hopefully) and the #'s keep dropping. So I guess either the fun is gone as Gaba talks about (I would agree not as fun as 10 years ago) or the cost of the NOOD/sailing is just too much for people around here.

 

 

And I heard the free pour is gone, welcome to $8 drink night at CYC! What is the entry fee up to now for this? 31 Tens is cool, but we used to get 40-50 about 10 years ago! That's a 25% drop right there, and I bet its worse in other fleets.

 

I like the way the Colors was ran last weekend, $150 entry got you 2 days of racing, 2 parties with free food and a few hours of free beer. Too bad we had half the number of T-10's on the line, partly because CYC feels the need to run competing events to everything!

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So what would you change about US Sailing?????? Please be specific.

 

There have been numerous posts about changes to US Sailing. Why repeat them here?

 

We all thought Gary could change things but he has been stonewalled by the entrenched board and rigid ByLaws. Consequently nothing important was changed.

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Let the numbers speak for themselves.

Two days out, the Chicago NOOD is showing 129 entries.

http://www.regattanetwork.com/clubmgmt/applet_registrant_list.php?regatta_id=4702&custom_report_id=42

Gotta love the 31 T-Tens, or it would be under 100 boats in the fleet.

 

Looks like only 7 groups made it to the NOR requirement to get 7 boats for a real section: Ben 36, Ben 40.7, a combined GL 36 & Flying Tiger, the Farr 40's, J 111, J 109s and the bloody T-Tens. NO, I won't start the traditional NOOD "ghost boat" conversation here.

Note that 4 listed sections didn't even meet the NOR required 7 boats: Combined S2 9.1 and J30s, Level 35 (really J35s), J111 and the GL 70s.

 

You can draw your own conclusions.

Yes, A LOT is the economy. Has to be. But if I talk too much about that I get banished to Political Anarchy.... Don't want to go there

 

I sailed my first Chicago NOOD in 96. Haven't missed very many since. Got some great memories.

Not going down this year. For @ the last 8 years (+ or -) the price has gone up and the fun meter has gone down.

 

Yeah, let's all blame the economy. The recssion caused the decline in our sport. George W Bush therefore is the reason sailing has declined.

 

Be advised that the economy began to topple in '08. Prior to that, sailing was in a severe decline - for many years. So, no, you can't pin this one on W.

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Let the numbers speak for themselves.

Two days out, the Chicago NOOD is showing 129 entries.

http://www.regattanetwork.com/clubmgmt/applet_registrant_list.php?regatta_id=4702&custom_report_id=42

Gotta love the 31 T-Tens, or it would be under 100 boats in the fleet.

 

Looks like only 7 groups made it to the NOR requirement to get 7 boats for a real section: Ben 36, Ben 40.7, a combined GL 36 & Flying Tiger, the Farr 40's, J 111, J 109s and the bloody T-Tens. NO, I won't start the traditional NOOD "ghost boat" conversation here.

Note that 4 listed sections didn't even meet the NOR required 7 boats: Combined S2 9.1 and J30s, Level 35 (really J35s), J111 and the GL 70s.

 

You can draw your own conclusions.

Yes, A LOT is the economy. Has to be. But if I talk too much about that I get banished to Political Anarchy.... Don't want to go there

 

I sailed my first Chicago NOOD in 96. Haven't missed very many since. Got some great memories.

Not going down this year. For @ the last 8 years (+ or -) the price has gone up and the fun meter has gone down.

 

Yeah, let's all blame the economy. The recssion caused the decline in our sport. George W Bush therefore is the reason sailing has declined.

 

Be advised that the economy began to topple in '08. Prior to that, sailing was in a severe decline - for many years. So, no, you can't pin this one on W.

 

The Chicago NOOD was in decline long before the Bush/Obama economy went to hell. The City of Chicago certainly has not cooperated either by raising parking rates for local garages near CYC and the harbors.

 

I think we must really examine the state of big boat racing to see what is happening with the NOOD. For years there was an arms race to buy the fastest (aka most expensive) boat in the fleet. This drove many citizen sailors away from the sport because they were intimidated by the changes to the sport and expense of keeping up. This problem was further hurt by the sailing press which glorified the people buying these new yachts while relegating people sailing older boats to afterthoughts.

 

A few examples of strength in older fleets are with the T-10 fleet which continues to produce strong turnouts in a boat which continues to age not so gracefully. Unfortunately, the costs of newer version of the 10 have made that boat less desirable as well.

 

Finally, the multiple handicapping rules have continued to divide fleets. Use of PHRF, IRC, ORR and other methods have led boat owners to shop for the "best rating" for their boat. Last week in the Colors Regatta there was a PHRF and an ORR section of 5-6 boats each. This separated many similar boats into different fleets and further divided the competition.

 

It seems like the future will be in 1-design racing ultimately but on a smaller level as we transition from the older group of handicap favoring boat owners to younger people raised through the ranks of 1-design. Unfortunately this will take many years and regatta attendance will continue to suffer.

 

Just my opinion.

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the issuess with sailing is we (sailors) constanlty bad mouth any program. Saying it is to expensive, it could be done better. This sail maker is better than that. This boat is better than that boat. This race is put on by crooks, that race is snooty. Old boats vs New boats. Old sailors vs new sailors. We can go on like this for hours. The truth is sailing is down.

why because the world economy is in the tanks, sailing is a like to do. Not a must do. No matter what we think about it is true.

 

If you see a great event promote it. We need great events. This can be a small beer can event, a NOOD or a nationals. We need more people promoting our sport and less people bad mouthing it.

 

Spend less time, on the web and more time on the water. Bring a friend. little boat racing is cool, big boat racing is cool, old boat racing is cool. Long distance racing is cool. Ocean racing is cool. So instead of bad mouthing an event or a boat.

 

get on a the phone and invite somebody to go sailing! enjoy your day on the water

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the issuess with sailing is we (sailors) constanlty bad mouth any program. Saying it is to expensive, it could be done better. This sail maker is better than that. This boat is better than that boat. This race is put on by crooks, that race is snooty. Old boats vs New boats. Old sailors vs new sailors. We can go on like this for hours. The truth is sailing is down.

why because the world economy is in the tanks, sailing is a like to do. Not a must do. No matter what we think about it is true.

 

If you see a great event promote it. We need great events. This can be a small beer can event, a NOOD or a nationals. We need more people promoting our sport and less people bad mouthing it.

 

Spend less time, on the web and more time on the water. Bring a friend. little boat racing is cool, big boat racing is cool, old boat racing is cool. Long distance racing is cool. Ocean racing is cool. So instead of bad mouthing an event or a boat.

 

get on a the phone and invite somebody to go sailing! enjoy your day on the water

 

Sooooo, you also would like to blame the economy. Again, we point out that sailing was in a decline for many years before 2008 - the beginning of the economic debacle.

 

It's just too easy to blame the economy. and, in so doing, the real issues behind the decline in sailing will not addressed. Because, after all, it's the economy.

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It's just too easy to blame the economy. and, in so doing, the real issues behind the decline in sailing will not addressed. Because, after all, it's the economy.

 

So please enlighten us.... what are the real issues behind the decline in sailing?

 

I think you have a pretty good audience here that would like to hear. And please, don't stop at the issues... give us some of your solutions. And if possible, let us know how and what you're doing to solve some of these issues.

 

Thank you.

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Is it worth the risk of dumping the management and replacing it with volunteers to save bucks? If you do go Ol school.... does it sustain with the same national participation?

I think the point is (and Charleston has proved) that you can have a largely volunteer staff to run the event so long as you have a few key professional people doing what they are best at. It's silly to think the average YC volunteer can create and maintain a strong social marketing effort for example, so you contract that out to someone. Same with video and photo and scoring. Just like you don't rely on volunteers to do your landscape maintenance, you don't rely on them to do the 8 months of hard work before anyone is even thinking about your regatta.

 

But it seems like you might save enough by ditching the NOOD to hire your own marketing/graphic/social people.

Clean the other issue that is not managed by anyone is the number and frequency of national events on the schedule. We have fewer boats on the pond.... Over scheduling kills attendance at events across the board. Looking at each individual event misses the big picture.

 

Letting each event market themselves and then keeping score with attendance may not be a smart way of optimizing the fun factor. I have never understood why publishing an NOR with a list of classes and then HOPING that you get 5 boats in each is just stupid. I would think that the OD classes should build a conservative schedule with the OAs, coordinated nationally and regionally and pick and choose their events that their members can meet.

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It's just too easy to blame the economy. and, in so doing, the real issues behind the decline in sailing will not addressed. Because, after all, it's the economy.

 

So please enlighten us.... what are the real issues behind the decline in sailing?

 

I think you have a pretty good audience here that would like to hear. And please, don't stop at the issues... give us some of your solutions. And if possible, let us know how and what you're doing to solve some of these issues.

 

Thank you.

 

There have been numerous threads about the issues with both sailing in the US and US Sailing. Even this thread has some thoughts. Even Clean has some cogent thoughtts! So, there is no point in repeating what has already been covered in countless threads, as you very well know.

 

And it is very difficult to do anything about it due to the entrenched nature of the organizations that control sailing in the US. Just ask Gary why he wasn't able to accomplish more in his years at US Sailing. Just ask Dean why our Olympic team depth and training is pretty much an embarrassment.

 

Your condesending tone indicates that you have more questions - next?

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Your condesending tone indicates that you have more questions - next?

 

No intent to be condescending. Just want those that complain about the sport to think about doing something about it. Many talk, very few walk.

 

Yep, many threads about the subject. Still no one has really done anything about it. Or at least, all appeared to be talks, and no walks. We have a lot of it in this place. And very few that are doing something about it.

 

Don't misunderstand me. I hate to see the state of the sport as it is. Yes, Dean and the Olympic Team work their butts off for the sport and sponsorship and do what they can with what they have but get no Country support. Then again, neither does many of the other Olympic athletes in this Country - or at least I don't see much support.

 

The sport isn't perfect. But as some one said it above, I'd rather have the talks be about the good things about the sport, support the few events we have, the positive things sailing brings, see it move forward and get mass acceptance than everyone chatting up the negative and "sour tasting" the sport for outsiders (and even insiders) that really don't understand it.

 

It is all about perception... and we need to turn around the perception everyone has about the sport.

 

It then, would have a chance to grow again.

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Your condesending tone indicates that you have more questions - next?

 

No intent to be condescending. Just want those that complain about the sport to think about doing something about it. Many talk, very few walk.

 

Yep, many threads about the subject. Still no one has really done anything about it. Or at least, all appeared to be talks, and no walks. We have a lot of it in this place. And very few that are doing something about it.

 

Don't misunderstand me. I hate to see the state of the sport as it is. Yes, Dean and the Olympic Team work their butts off for the sport and sponsorship and do what they can with what they have but get no Country support. Then again, neither does many of the other Olympic athletes in this Country - or at least I don't see much support.

 

The sport isn't perfect. But as some one said it above, I'd rather have the talks be about the good things about the sport, support the few events we have, the positive things sailing brings, see it move forward and get mass acceptance than everyone chatting up the negative and "sour tasting" the sport for outsiders (and even insiders) that really don't understand it.

 

It is all about perception... and we need to turn around the perception everyone has about the sport.

 

It then, would have a chance to grow again.

 

Again, you need to ask Gary about why nothing could be accomplished during term in office. And, no, the issue with the Olympic team is...... Dean.

 

Our marquee event, the AC has become the plaything for billionaires. That event, in the past, could capture the imagination of the public, get on the cover of SI, on TV. Today? We have a bunch of Aussies on the "US team."

 

As many folks have observed, trying to get on the Board at US Sailing or get any accountability from them would be like breaching the Maginot Line. That is issue #1 with sailing in this country. Our NGB operates for their own self interest and not the sport. The comparison with the US Ski Team is often made in SA threads. That organization and Olympic effort is successful. US sailing isn't.

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It's just too easy to blame the economy. and, in so doing, the real issues behind the decline in sailing will not addressed. Because, after all, it's the economy.

 

So please enlighten us.... what are the real issues behind the decline in sailing?

 

I think you have a pretty good audience here that would like to hear. And please, don't stop at the issues... give us some of your solutions. And if possible, let us know how and what you're doing to solve some of these issues.

 

Thank you.

 

This guy went to all that trouble to research just that.

 

http://savingsailing.com/about/

 

BOOK SUMMARY

 

Participation in sailing is declining in America, down more than 40% since 1997 and 70% since 1979. In this wide-ranging book, researcher and avid sailor Nicholas Hayes explains why.

 

The book shows how pressures on free time have increased, and how, in response, many Americans have turned to less rewarding forms of spectator or highly structured activities and away from lifelong, family-based, multi-generational recreation.

 

 

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This guy went to all that trouble to research just that.

 

http://savingsailing.com/about/

 

BOOK SUMMARY

 

Participation in sailing is declining in America, down more than 40% since 1997 and 70% since 1979. In this wide-ranging book, researcher and avid sailor Nicholas Hayes explains why.

 

The book shows how pressures on free time have increased, and how, in response, many Americans have turned to less rewarding forms of spectator or highly structured activities and away from lifelong, family-based, multi-generational recreation.

 

I'd agree with him. The increase and use of technology hasn't made our lives any easier nor freed any more time in our days, the economy has played havoc with every one and since sailing is all based on "disposable income" we not only lost many to lack of time but also lack of "spare" money. And to top it off, the sport hasn't gotten any cheaper! It all counts and it all has slowly hurt the sport.

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the issuess with sailing is we (sailors) constanlty bad mouth any program. Saying it is to expensive, it could be done better. This sail maker is better than that. This boat is better than that boat. This race is put on by crooks, that race is snooty. Old boats vs New boats. Old sailors vs new sailors. We can go on like this for hours. The truth is sailing is down.

why because the world economy is in the tanks, sailing is a like to do. Not a must do. No matter what we think about it is true.

 

If you see a great event promote it. We need great events. This can be a small beer can event, a NOOD or a nationals. We need more people promoting our sport and less people bad mouthing it.

 

Spend less time, on the web and more time on the water. Bring a friend. little boat racing is cool, big boat racing is cool, old boat racing is cool. Long distance racing is cool. Ocean racing is cool. So instead of bad mouthing an event or a boat.

 

get on a the phone and invite somebody to go sailing! enjoy your day on the water

 

Sooooo, you also would like to blame the economy. Again, we point out that sailing was in a decline for many years before 2008 - the beginning of the economic debacle.

 

It's just too easy to blame the economy. and, in so doing, the real issues behind the decline in sailing will not addressed. Because, after all, it's the economy.

 

 

I think you are missing the point. I am not blaiming the economy. I am blaiming complaining sailors who are not doing something to change it! our fleets are actually growing with the slowed down. People are getting back into smaller boats with lower costs and racing 1d. if you look at fleets that are growing it is because a few people got on the phone and emails and made it grow. other just complain all day or write up about how great the fleet is when they get 15 or so boats on the line. How much have we read about hot classes than two years later the fleet is gone. example TP 52. I think they are all for sail right now.

 

But is anything writen up about the local races that are getting 20 boats or more on the line. A nood race that had a great turn out. Nope. nothing. not even covered. sailing needs to get back to being cool and start promoting it self in a positive light. Anarchy had grown up in size because it had hands and eyes everywhere. Write up were posted ever evening at local and major events. Now your event is only writen up if you pay to have somebody come and write it up. no eyes on the scene. No write up of the great band or beer they had at the event.

 

Fleets are growing. sailing is going no where. but we do have an issue. Sailors are getting old and we are not bring new people into the fleets. our fleet is growing because we are getting new people up to speed FAST! sharing crew, sails, speed tips. a very open forum. Suddenly the races are NOT being won by the same person every time. You are being passed or passing somebody every fleet. multiple boat first every race.

 

Followed up with a keg of cheap beer and a story or two. then you have a fleet that grows. bitch and complain the fleet shrinks. so light up people. have a fun day on the water and bring a NOB or two.

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But is anything writen up about the local races that are getting 20 boats or more on the line. A nood race that had a great turn out. Nope. nothing. not even covered. sailing needs to get back to being cool and start promoting it self in a positive light. Anarchy had grown up in size because it had hands and eyes everywhere. Write up were posted ever evening at local and major events. Now your event is only writen up if you pay to have somebody come and write it up. no eyes on the scene. No write up of the great band or beer they had at the event.

 

We'd appreciate if you wouldn't just make shit up, GnD, and your quote is blatantly wrong. There are more reports than ever on SA; far too many for them all to get to the front page like they used to, but just check through the SA forum for the hundreds of events every year that are reported directly on SA by competitors. Facebook is free, too, and has been a great tool for regatta organizers looking to promote on a budget. The front page itself has a 'regular' regatta report almost day, and rarely by somebody 'you have to pay to come and write it up' because we don't run press releases. I am constantly on the lookout for good writers and good material, and when I read something good in the forums or on an event site, I e-mail the author, asking if they'd be interested in doing an exclusive report for SA. Most people are surprised that SA would be interested in their 'little' regatta, but almost none refuse once they believe it.

 

So to all of you whinging about coverage of an event: Take a chance and write a report. Find a few pics, even just funny ones taken with a good phone camera. Send it all in. Worst thing that can happen is that we tell you it isn't good enough for SA. Big fucking deal.

 

Smarter thing to do though is for your fleet or club or PHRF org to find itself a media intern, or out of work writer of some kind. Pay them to write reports for you, and to liaise with us and other sites to get the info out. Clubs and fleets may be non-profit organizations (sometimes), but in a world where word-of-mouth isn't enough, they require publicity to succeed. And like it or not, doing consistently good publicity work is not easy or quick, and no matter how great a writer you think you are, it's a pain in the ass - especially when an editor tells you that your work of art is unusable and needs to be completely rewritten.

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As someone who has only been in this sport for a few years now, I would like to share some of my insight on what I have seen. As a quick background, I got into sailing in college because I was living at home in the summer, bored, and wanted a weekday/weekend hobby. This was '06 and the year before the cup and Versus was showing some racing on TV. I saw that and thought that looked like it could be fun. At this point my only experience on a sailboat was occasional cruises on a family-friends boat, despite living in Zeeland, MI (right next to Holland, home of MBYC). At this point I sought out the MBYC website and found a posting for a boat looking for crew. I had no idea what I was in for, but I took to it like a fish to water.

 

Now fast forward 6 years. I have watched the subsequent collapse of the American economy and declining numbers at regattas across the country. My crewmates would tell me stories about KWRW and the Chi-Mac parties from back in the day and I was left wondering where it had all gone. I wanted to be in FL in January racing with some 200 other boats.

 

As an example, I can't remember the last time I stayed past 8 or 9 oclock at the CYC during the NOOD regatta. My cohorts and I would stick around just long enough to consume our fill of Mt. Gay or whatever else was free, and would make our way to Lincoln Park, downtown or wherever the wind took us. My point here being that as someone who had never been to NOOD parties at their inception, I found no compelling reason to stay there past the point where the free libations stopped flowing. Compare that to this past weekends BOD regatta, and other than Friday night when it was cold and there were 2 more days to sail, the tent was packed late into the night with music even after the free drinks had stopped. At one point I talked to one of the staffers of the Bell's tap as asked "I thought this was supposed to end an hour ago." She responded "It was but they told us to keep it going since there were lots of people drinking."

 

That is the attitude that our sport needs to exude across the board, an attitude of what can we do to make your time more enjoyable. This applies to OA's as much as it does to the sailors themselves. The first boat I was on was a family program that did not do the NOODs or Chi-Mac due to cost. I pitched in and tried to bring beer and food when I could and for the cross-lake races the crew split the cost of provisioning among themselves since the owner was already paying for entry fees. Unfortunately, my view is that some boats are not this way and it seems that some crew consistently have their hands out and want hotel rooms, meals and everything else paid for and all they should have to do is show up as the boat is leaving the dock and then walk off immediately after. I think we need more people that are willing to get their hands dirty and spend time getting the boat ready to go racing. Maybe this has something to do with the proliferation of the professional sailor? Hard to say, but there are certainly people out there with attitudes that ruin the experience for everyone. As they say, one bad apple spoils the whole bunch.

 

Lastly, everyone needs to stop ragging on the boats that are starting to get up there in years. The Lake St. Clair Cal 25 fleet is arguably the best fleet on the lake and consistently gets 20+ boats on the line for the big events on the lake. In addition, I have the pleasure of racing on these boats on an almost weekly basis and cannot say enough good things about how everyone treats each other, how everyone pitches in to help someone in need and how tuning and speed ideas are shared. That boat was first produced 1965 and still has some of the best sailors on the lake racing them every week. You can get into one ready to race for ~5k! I think you would be hard-pressed to find another keelboat for that kind of money with their level of racing, and their fleet keeps growing. I believe they have 2-3 new boats this year and had 1 or 2 last year. In an era where everything has turned into a "who has more carbon" competition, these guys still keep doing it their way and make it about the crew work and boat prep and not how large is your checkbook. Don't get me wrong I like going fast, I did the BOD on a Melges 24 and it was a blast, but in terms of trying to get more people into sailing and specifically racing, I think this fleet provides a very good starting point.

 

-Brad

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the issuess with sailing is we (sailors) constanlty bad mouth any program. Saying it is to expensive, it could be done better. This sail maker is better than that. This boat is better than that boat. This race is put on by crooks, that race is snooty. Old boats vs New boats. Old sailors vs new sailors. We can go on like this for hours. The truth is sailing is down.

why because the world economy is in the tanks, sailing is a like to do. Not a must do. No matter what we think about it is true.

 

If you see a great event promote it. We need great events. This can be a small beer can event, a NOOD or a nationals. We need more people promoting our sport and less people bad mouthing it.

 

Spend less time, on the web and more time on the water. Bring a friend. little boat racing is cool, big boat racing is cool, old boat racing is cool. Long distance racing is cool. Ocean racing is cool. So instead of bad mouthing an event or a boat.

 

get on a the phone and invite somebody to go sailing! enjoy your day on the water

 

Sooooo, you also would like to blame the economy. Again, we point out that sailing was in a decline for many years before 2008 - the beginning of the economic debacle.

 

It's just too easy to blame the economy. and, in so doing, the real issues behind the decline in sailing will not addressed. Because, after all, it's the economy.

 

 

I think you are missing the point. I am not blaiming the economy. I am blaiming complaining sailors who are not doing something to change it! our fleets are actually growing with the slowed down. People are getting back into smaller boats with lower costs and racing 1d. if you look at fleets that are growing it is because a few people got on the phone and emails and made it grow. other just complain all day or write up about how great the fleet is when they get 15 or so boats on the line. How much have we read about hot classes than two years later the fleet is gone. example TP 52. I think they are all for sail right now.

 

But is anything writen up about the local races that are getting 20 boats or more on the line. A nood race that had a great turn out. Nope. nothing. not even covered. sailing needs to get back to being cool and start promoting it self in a positive light. Anarchy had grown up in size because it had hands and eyes everywhere. Write up were posted ever evening at local and major events. Now your event is only writen up if you pay to have somebody come and write it up. no eyes on the scene. No write up of the great band or beer they had at the event.

 

Fleets are growing. sailing is going no where. but we do have an issue. Sailors are getting old and we are not bring new people into the fleets. our fleet is growing because we are getting new people up to speed FAST! sharing crew, sails, speed tips. a very open forum. Suddenly the races are NOT being won by the same person every time. You are being passed or passing somebody every fleet. multiple boat first every race.

 

Followed up with a keg of cheap beer and a story or two. then you have a fleet that grows. bitch and complain the fleet shrinks. so light up people. have a fun day on the water and bring a NOB or two.

 

Sooooo, all the TP 52s are "for sail?" Whom do you "blaime" for that?

 

You write about as well as Nimrod the Younger. No, actually, you make Nimrod appear to be a Rhodes Scholar.

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Let me give you my view.

 

I myself had grown bored with the NOOD thing and only entered because the crew and other boats wanted us to do it. This year at the BOD I actually had a great time. One of the other j120s came down and docked with us so at out end of the day we all got to socialize with the other boats. I heard from the PRO on the lake that they were going to do an extra race if the participants, the customer wanted. That is the first time I ever heard that term from a race committee. The drink and food were decent at reasonable prices. One could tell the club was giving back to the sailors the money they saved by not sending it to SW. There was definitely an upgrade to the quality of the event.

 

After 13 years I still own a J120 that has quite a few miles on it. I have been asked why I have not upgraded to a larger faster boat and the answer is always the same. I get to sail with my friends and against my friends. When we get back to the dock we talk about the happenings on the course. Most of the boats I sail against are pretty competitive so we always get to test our abilities sailor to sailor. Its all about the fun factor. When the fun stops I will try something else.

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colors fucking sucked. great sailing, but the RC, and sorry rc I'm very appreciative that you work hard and all, but you sucked a mean dick that weekend. and the party pretty much blew.

Let the numbers speak for themselves.

Two days out, the Chicago NOOD is showing 129 entries.

http://www.regattane...om_report_id=42

Gotta love the 31 T-Tens, or it would be under 100 boats in the fleet.

 

Looks like only 7 groups made it to the NOR requirement to get 7 boats for a real section: Ben 36, Ben 40.7, a combined GL 36 & Flying Tiger, the Farr 40's, J 111, J 109s and the bloody T-Tens. NO, I won't start the traditional NOOD "ghost boat" conversation here.

Note that 4 listed sections didn't even meet the NOR required 7 boats: Combined S2 9.1 and J30s, Level 35 (really J35s), J111 and the GL 70s.

 

You can draw your own conclusions.

Yes, A LOT is the economy. Has to be. But if I talk too much about that I get banished to Political Anarchy.... Don't want to go there

 

I sailed my first Chicago NOOD in 96. Haven't missed very many since. Got some great memories.

Not going down this year. For @ the last 8 years (+ or -) the price has gone up and the fun meter has gone down.

 

 

It is strange that the days of 250 boats at the Chicago NOOD are gone, it was just 10 years ago. The other funny thing is back in the late 90's early 2000's they use to only get off 5 or 6 races for the whole weekend, parties were full though.

 

Now we do 8 races or more (hopefully) and the #'s keep dropping. So I guess either the fun is gone as Gaba talks about (I would agree not as fun as 10 years ago) or the cost of the NOOD/sailing is just too much for people around here.

 

 

And I heard the free pour is gone, welcome to $8 drink night at CYC! What is the entry fee up to now for this? 31 Tens is cool, but we used to get 40-50 about 10 years ago! That's a 25% drop right there, and I bet its worse in other fleets.

 

I like the way the Colors was ran last weekend, $150 entry got you 2 days of racing, 2 parties with free food and a few hours of free beer. Too bad we had half the number of T-10's on the line, partly because CYC feels the need to run competing events to everything!

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colors fucking sucked. great sailing, but the RC, and sorry rc I'm very appreciative that you work hard and all, but you sucked a mean dick that weekend. and the party pretty much blew.

Let the numbers speak for themselves.

Two days out, the Chicago NOOD is showing 129 entries.

http://www.regattane...om_report_id=42

Gotta love the 31 T-Tens, or it would be under 100 boats in the fleet.

 

Looks like only 7 groups made it to the NOR requirement to get 7 boats for a real section: Ben 36, Ben 40.7, a combined GL 36 & Flying Tiger, the Farr 40's, J 111, J 109s and the bloody T-Tens. NO, I won't start the traditional NOOD "ghost boat" conversation here.

Note that 4 listed sections didn't even meet the NOR required 7 boats: Combined S2 9.1 and J30s, Level 35 (really J35s), J111 and the GL 70s.

 

You can draw your own conclusions.

Yes, A LOT is the economy. Has to be. But if I talk too much about that I get banished to Political Anarchy.... Don't want to go there

 

I sailed my first Chicago NOOD in 96. Haven't missed very many since. Got some great memories.

Not going down this year. For @ the last 8 years (+ or -) the price has gone up and the fun meter has gone down.

 

 

It is strange that the days of 250 boats at the Chicago NOOD are gone, it was just 10 years ago. The other funny thing is back in the late 90's early 2000's they use to only get off 5 or 6 races for the whole weekend, parties were full though.

 

Now we do 8 races or more (hopefully) and the #'s keep dropping. So I guess either the fun is gone as Gaba talks about (I would agree not as fun as 10 years ago) or the cost of the NOOD/sailing is just too much for people around here.

 

 

And I heard the free pour is gone, welcome to $8 drink night at CYC! What is the entry fee up to now for this? 31 Tens is cool, but we used to get 40-50 about 10 years ago! That's a 25% drop right there, and I bet its worse in other fleets.

 

I like the way the Colors was ran last weekend, $150 entry got you 2 days of racing, 2 parties with free food and a few hours of free beer. Too bad we had half the number of T-10's on the line, partly because CYC feels the need to run competing events to everything!

 

Anything else you didn't like? Could you do better? Would you volunteer to do committee work to help out some one like you?

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The Chicago NOOD was in decline long before the Bush/Obama economy went to hell. The City of Chicago certainly has not cooperated either by raising parking rates for local garages near CYC and the harbors.

 

I think we must really examine the state of big boat racing to see what is happening with the NOOD. For years there was an arms race to buy the fastest (aka most expensive) boat in the fleet. This drove many citizen sailors away from the sport because they were intimidated by the changes to the sport and expense of keeping up. This problem was further hurt by the sailing press which glorified the people buying these new yachts while relegating people sailing older boats to afterthoughts.

 

A few examples of strength in older fleets are with the T-10 fleet which continues to produce strong turnouts in a boat which continues to age not so gracefully. Unfortunately, the costs of newer version of the 10 have made that boat less desirable as well.

 

Finally, the multiple handicapping rules have continued to divide fleets. Use of PHRF, IRC, ORR and other methods have led boat owners to shop for the "best rating" for their boat. Last week in the Colors Regatta there was a PHRF and an ORR section of 5-6 boats each. This separated many similar boats into different fleets and further divided the competition.

 

It seems like the future will be in 1-design racing ultimately but on a smaller level as we transition from the older group of handicap favoring boat owners to younger people raised through the ranks of 1-design. Unfortunately this will take many years and regatta attendance will continue to suffer.

 

Just my opinion.

 

People who are old enough remember that racing was actually overall stronger before OD took over as the only "acceptable" alternative. This was in the IOR and MORC days. If one design racing is ultimately the future, that would be news to everybody who has watched the expansion of one design coincide with the contraction of racing in general. This focus on one design as the be all and end all of racing is hugely damaging. For example, if you are trying to run a regatta and promote it, when you have owners who demand a one design class or they aren't interested in racing, that means you have to convince 5-7 boats to race, not just one, and you have to convince all of them simultaneously. If you don't get their class together, or someone drops out at the last minute, you are fucked, because now you have four or more pissed off owners. This goes hand in hand with the bitching about PHRF, and division in rating systems and everything else. The single biggest thing that US Sailing or anybody else could do is step in and create either a national PHRF office (to take politics out of it and streamline the system) or drop costs for ORR to the point where nothing else is competitive. Recoup the investment later. What we need more than anything is a single rating system that is affordable, easy to score, and encourages boats that people want to sail. Very few people are really jazzed about sailing a 30-year old, 4-knot pain box when the look at the alternatives.

 

Everybody thinks one design is the answer, well if that is true we still wouldn't be asking the question, since we have gone through plenty of OD over the last 20 years.

 

Oh, and no shit, the economy, and the death of the middle class. That too.

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Too Dang easy to say "One Design is the answer" That's a cop-out.

 

Riddle me this, Batman:

What do you do when you end up with a "hot" boat that can't get an OD section.

 

Whatever happened to

the 1D35?

Farr 395

the Soto 40 ?

J__?__?___?___?__

The Ker ____

The Mumm 36

The Mumm 30

The Mount Gay 30

Flying Tiger 10

name your favorite sport boat class here

Hell, please show me a OD or level section for TP52s in the US?

How about the Melges 30 which never got off the ground?

The Farr 40 is on the edge....

Should I go on? Can I get my money back?

Great boats, but with the exception of the Farr 40 never enough to really get a viable long term OD fleet or section going.

 

So what do you suggest for the people who bought those boats (often when new)?

Tough Shit, buy a T-10 or J-24?

I'm sorry, but that's not gonna cut it.

 

Lots of great boats come out on the market that never get broad OD fleet status. You need to give those boats and owners a place to race,

OR you're going to foreclose almost all innovation in the new boat market.

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We all had hopes that Gary could change things...

 

actually, no, I never thought any such thing. Just thought it going to be more of the same. Just more ineffectual middle management promoted beyond ability.

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We all had hopes that Gary could change things...

 

actually, no, I never thought any such thing. Just thought it going to be more of the same. Just more ineffectual middle management promoted beyond ability.

 

I could only hope to be promoted!

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