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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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Tabman

Pressure?

70 posts in this topic

OK, watching the VOR in port race this morning, once again I hear the commentators referring to wind speed as "pressure", i.e. "there appears to be more pressure on the left side of the course". I have been wondering about this for a while now. For me pressure was always measured in millibars or inches, not in knots. . .

 

When did this start and why?

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Ever held a spinnaker sheet? "Good pressure here". The term has been in use for at least 15 years.

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Tabman is right Dogwatch. This is an 'in crowd' term that started two America's Cups ago on TV by the talking heads. Nobody says "good pressure here" when tending a spinnaker sheet. In 40 years of big boat racing I have never heard that. We call out puffs and headers but not pressure. Even the navigator didn't use such a phrase. Navigators just tell you where you are going to get a lift if there is a chance of one. Please don't confuse television gibberish with sailing.

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Oh gawd, now we have vocabulary nazi's on SA. Call it "pressure," call it whatever the eff you want.

 

Just hope there is some.

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Wow, didn't know I was so "in". We've always used the term 'pressure' as an indicator of which side of the race course generally had more breeze. I probably heard the term first used in the early nineties at J-24 Texas Circuit events where the leaders at the end of day one would have a debrief over the keg about the day's racing. It seemed a good word to use to generalize the conditions of the course rather than looking for particular puffs and such. Now for the gibberish.

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Ever held a spinnaker sheet? "Good pressure here". The term has been in use for at least 15 years.

On our boat "good pressure" is always about 100 yards away.

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On our boat, "pressure" means somebody has to drop a duece.

 

That's back-pressure :blink:

 

Pressure from the south on our boat

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Coined in Americas cup sailing TV commentating. I think when DC took it to San Diego.

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Tabman is right Dogwatch. This is an 'in crowd' term that started two America's Cups ago on TV by the talking heads. Nobody says "good pressure here" when tending a spinnaker sheet. In 40 years of big boat racing I have never heard that. We call out puffs and headers but not pressure. Even the navigator didn't use such a phrase. Navigators just tell you where you are going to get a lift if there is a chance of one. Please don't confuse television gibberish with sailing.

 

we use it on our boat with the asym as a means for the trimmer to communicate that the helm can go lower if he wants to.

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Tabman is right Dogwatch. This is an 'in crowd' term that started two America's Cups ago on TV by the talking heads. Nobody says "good pressure here" when tending a spinnaker sheet. In 40 years of big boat racing I have never heard that. We call out puffs and headers but not pressure. Even the navigator didn't use such a phrase. Navigators just tell you where you are going to get a lift if there is a chance of one. Please don't confuse television gibberish with sailing.

No, Dogwatch is right. Lots of people say "good pressure" or "no pressure' when tending a spin sheet, and no, not just in the last couple years. I don't use it to mean wind speed, I use it to mean how much the sheet is tugging on my hands and how fast it'll go out if I let it. Sometimes it does mean the wind came up, sometimes it means the driver came up too high or down too low, sometimes it's an indicator that someone's covering us.

 

I've never heard the term refer to the weather itself, though, except for actual high or low pressure.

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I've wondered about that too. I've never sailed on a boat that used "pressure". I just assumed it came from the Kiwis and the America's Cup. That's the first place I heard it.

I just call it "wind", i.e. "There's more wind in the middle." But "pressure" sounds kind of high tech. I like it. I won't say it it would be an affectation if I said it. But I like it.

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We've used the term so long I can't even remember when we started doing so.

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Tabman is right Dogwatch. This is an 'in crowd' term that started two America's Cups ago on TV by the talking heads. Nobody says "good pressure here" when tending a spinnaker sheet. In 40 years of big boat racing I have never heard that. We call out puffs and headers but not pressure. Even the navigator didn't use such a phrase. Navigators just tell you where you are going to get a lift if there is a chance of one. Please don't confuse television gibberish with sailing.

No, Dogwatch is right. Lots of people say "good pressure" or "no pressure' when tending a spin sheet, and no, not just in the last couple years. I don't use it to mean wind speed, I use it to mean how much the sheet is tugging on my hands and how fast it'll go out if I let it. Sometimes it does mean the wind came up, sometimes it means the driver came up too high or down too low, sometimes it's an indicator that someone's covering us.

 

I've never heard the term refer to the weather itself, though, except for actual high or low pressure.

 

same here

 

when kite trimming its just a way of communicating how well the sheeting is pulling, good pressure mean you can go down... no pressure means come up,

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I have not heard wind called pressure before, but I always think of the wind as pressure on the sails. It helps me picture how to trim and steer if I conceptualize the wind as a giant block of air moving directionally across the water, putting pressure against me, rather than air puffing against the sail.

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Non-spinnaker sailors use it all the time. Just to confuse outsiders. They really should be talking about pressure difference, but most of them probably didn't do too well in physics...

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I blame people for using words instead of grunts and waiving their arms.

 

There have been similar threads.

 

When did "tack" become "tack over" ?!

When the bow of the boat passes through the eye of the wind, and the sails change sides, the boat has TACKED. There is no need to append "over" to the word "tacked"!!!

 

When did we start using port instead of larboard?

 

When did we start using stop instead of avast or belay?

 

When did we start using hello instead of Ahoy?

 

When did we start using UTC instead of Zulu Time or GMT?

 

When did we start using Bermuda Sloop instead of Marconi Rig?

 

When did we stop using the Cat O'nine Tails to flog the crew?

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When did we stop using the Cat O'nine Tails to flog the crew?

 

A length of Dyneema is far more efficient for that. . .

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Pressure has been used by spin trimmers for as long as I can remember too. I guess I never really thought about when the first time I heard the term, outside of being 50 miles out with one beer left or struggling for an answer when my first ex wife would confront me with "So.... where were you, why didn't you call?"

 

But I think I'll have the guys on the rail call "vertical pressure" instead of "big wave" this year and see if it catches on.

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When did we start using hello instead of Ahoy?

 

 

Chips Ahoy...... yummmmmmmm

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When you guys say, "As long as I can rember" then "I've been using it since the '90's" I think maybe this is a generational thing.

When I say "As long as I can remember", it starts in the very early '60's, when only dinghy sailors knew what a vang was.

Never mind. I'll go back to my crochetting now.

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When you guys say, "As long as I can rember" then "I've been using it since the '90's" I think maybe this is a generational thing.

When I say "As long as I can remember", it starts in the very early '60's, when only dinghy sailors knew what a vang was.

Never mind. I'll go back to my crochetting now.

 

Roller reefing a main....reel main halyard winch....ss slides on a ss track....pressure

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Yeah, I really miss those wire reel winches. The ones with the brake that you never were quite sure of how much to release.

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What was the reddish material they used to make blocks out of?

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What was the reddish material they used to make blocks out of?

 

We had those on my dad's boat in the '60s! I recall them being called something like "phenolic" or Tufnol.

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Tuff Blocks I think was the name they were marketed under. You can still buy phenolic material. Basically woven cotton infused with resin.

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I have one from my Dad's boat sitting right here as I type this. TuphBlox from the UK. Except for the shackle on the end they look a lot like an Equiplite but take about 1/100th of the load.

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This is what the mainsheet block on his Columbia 36 looked like.

images-1.jpg

He probably saved a few dollars and ordered that through Lands End.......

;-)

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Pressure vs wind.

 

 

 

Sometime in the early nineties the sailors who were hitting big events like Olympic Trials and worlds and who would come back and sail with us would use the word pressure where normal people used the word wind.

 

 

 

"There's more wind on the right." was replaced with "there's more pressure on the right."

 

 

Along with this came other forms of cool on teh boat chatter which helped those who traveled distance themselves from those of us who enjoyed teh game locally.

 

 

 

There were otehr funzie wunzie terms used which have both stuck around and faded:

 

 

 

Course right: Generally refers to the right hand side while lking upwind. That way special folks could confuse sailors flying spinaker on a local boat by saying we have more pressure on course right....which would be to the left.

 

Big names and colored boat fleet: That would be the sailors who care so little about finish position they sail boats that are unique looking and easily spoted by the RC.

 

Round labels vs Square labels: Having to do with competing sailmakers team racing during what would otherwise be a sportsmanlike event.

 

Weekend Warrior: A sailor who has a job and does not spend entire months away from home campaigning. usually applied by those who believe such a person "only thinks he is serious about racing."

 

Gaining height:: Formerly called pointing higher

 

Slam dunk: Formerly tacked on or tacked on his wind

 

landt: explanation

 

Rail meat: People who are brought along simply as ballast and will be disrespected until the get the fuck out of our sport

 

Tension guage;

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Pressure vs wind.

 

 

 

Sometime in the early nineties the sailors who were hitting big events like Olympic Trials and worlds and who would come back and sail with us would use the word pressure where normal people used the word wind.

 

 

 

"There's more wind on the right." was replaced with "there's more pressure on the right."

 

 

Along with this came other forms of cool on teh boat chatter which helped those who traveled distance themselves from those of us who enjoyed teh game locally.

 

 

 

There were otehr funzie wunzie terms used which have both stuck around and faded:

 

 

 

Course right: Generally refers to the right hand side while lking upwind. That way special folks could confuse sailors flying spinaker on a local boat by saying we have more pressure on course right....which would be to the left.

 

Big names and colored boat fleet: That would be the sailors who care so little about finish position they sail boats that are unique looking and easily spoted by the RC.

 

Round labels vs Square labels: Having to do with competing sailmakers team racing during what would otherwise be a sportsmanlike event.

 

Weekend Warrior: A sailor who has a job and does not spend entire months away from home campaigning. usually applied by those who believe such a person "only thinks he is serious about racing."

 

Gaining height:: Formerly called pointing higher

 

Slam dunk: Formerly tacked on or tacked on his wind

 

landt: explanation

 

Rail meat: People who are brought along simply as ballast and will be disrespected until the get the fuck out of our sport

 

Tension guage;

LOVE it Gouv,, thanks for the chuckle.. Don't forget the 'O' boats

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For as long as I can remember, I have not only called wind pressure, but thought of wind as pressure. This was way before it became trendy in sailing.

 

Maybe it was when learning about Bernoulli in aviation, or engine venturi, or even just when cracking open a dive tank and feeling it, I don't know.

 

Thinking of wind as pressure helps make to visualize it. I can 'see' air squeezing around mountains, or bring pushed out of a thunder cloud. Wind is not just wind...it is pressure.

 

When I started hearing it in sailing I didn't think twice about it.

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We've used the term so long I can't even remember when we started doing so.

aye aye

aus, gusts and the best lanes downwind are 'pressure lines'

 

if daveprobable or the OP sailed downunder/nz they would need a translator

 

maybe 'vang' would stump them too ?

 

Maybe it was when learning about Bernoulli in aviation, or engine venturi, or even just when cracking open a dive tank and feeling it, I don't know.

 

Thinking of wind as pressure helps make to visualize it. I can 'see' air squeezing around mountains, or bring pushed out of a thunder cloud. Wind is not just wind...it is pressure.

 

yep, and did it occur to them the source? the variation between 'pressure' cells, highs and lows

 

Interstering sidenote? : In Bethwaites first book in the preamble he notes five changes revolutionary changes that has led to todays high performance sailing, The FIRST of these ( circa ad 1925) a "common language" which he attributes to Manfred Curry !

So i wonder if Manfred used the word pressure!

 

 

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Well then..to be meteorologicallycorrect....more pressure ='s lighter winds....less pressure ='s greater winds.....ehhh

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Well then..to be meteorologicallycorrect....more pressure ='s lighter winds....less pressure ='s greater winds.....ehhh

 

Que? maybe you should read up - high pressure drives so cal's 3 day 60 kt santa anna "light breeze"

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oops, ha ha

 

nice point

 

of course Frank being a meteorologist doesn't use these common or slang terms, in excess of the first 100 pages are about weather & wind, the are anticyclones & the like.

 

puffs, gusts, lulls, veer and backing, channels, lanes

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We've used the term so long I can't even remember when we started doing so.

aye aye

aus, gusts and the best lanes downwind are 'pressure lines'

 

if daveprobable or the OP sailed downunder/nz they would need a translator

 

maybe 'vang' would stump them too ?

 

Maybe it was when learning about Bernoulli in aviation, or engine venturi, or even just when cracking open a dive tank and feeling it, I don't know.

 

Thinking of wind as pressure helps make to visualize it. I can 'see' air squeezing around mountains, or bring pushed out of a thunder cloud. Wind is not just wind...it is pressure.

 

yep, and did it occur to them the source? the variation between 'pressure' cells, highs and lows

 

Interstering sidenote? : In Bethwaites first book in the preamble he notes five changes revolutionary changes that has led to todays high performance sailing, The FIRST of these ( circa ad 1925) a "common language" which he attributes to Manfred Curry !

So i wonder if Manfred used the word pressure!

 

The OP (me) has known what a vang is from when I started sailing in small boats in the '60s and actually knows that the term vang was originally applied to a line that controlled a gaff not a boom (I like the evolution of terms and like to study sailing history and terminology).

 

The OP(me)was not saying that there is something wrong with the use of "pressure". I was interested in how it came about and when it came into common usage.

 

The OP (me) has enjoyed the replies and has learned quit a bit, but will probably still refer to it as wind, wind speed etc., unless I ever get the chance to do color commentary for a race!

 

Thanks!

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wind is not very descriptive though?

 

e.g. 'honey i'm home, finished well up today'

 

'So there must have been wind'

 

'You Bet !'

'well yeah, we finished'

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

now for example its said the Eskimo have <pick your #, 17, 50, 100, 200> words for ice and snow, without (urban myth????) a one particular word for it.

 

This is because it's their medium, and crucial to getting around/survival no doubt

 

I think this concept applies to sailors, wind on its own is just lacking & is only any bloody good for landlubbers

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When you guys say, "As long as I can rember" then "I've been using it since the '90's" I think maybe this is a generational thing.

When I say "As long as I can remember", it starts in the very early '60's, when only dinghy sailors knew what a vang was.

Never mind. I'll go back to my crochetting now.

 

Couldn't agree more.

I love it when sailors tell me they "been in sailing for OVER 10 years and they always ....."

In my experience since the 60's, the sport seems to go in approx 15 year cycles.

In AUS we used both 'vang' and 'kicking strap" terms, depending on the class!! Seems a bit conflicted now.

 

I first heard 'pressure' in an AC broadcast but it was a long time ago, and I have always thought it was a yank term.

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I learned to sail on a Columbia 36...had the wire halyard brake too. :). I always liked them.

 

This is what the mainsheet block on his Columbia 36 looked like.

images-1.jpg

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wind is not very descriptive though?

 

e.g. 'honey i'm home, finished well up today'

 

'So there must have been wind'

 

'You Bet !'

'well yeah, we finished'

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

now for example its said the Eskimo have <pick your #, 17, 50, 100, 200> words for ice and snow, without (urban myth????) a one particular word for it.

 

This is because it's their medium, and crucial to getting around/survival no doubt

 

I think this concept applies to sailors, wind on its own is just lacking & is only any bloody good for landlubbers

 

 

Such as:

 

Blowing snot and blowing like stink for high pressure (wind)?

 

Any others?

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then again it could be a hoax

 

'blowing' may need some clarification too

 

blow, ice, snow

 

again i refer to the eskimo, is "dogs off chains" more likely to occur in arctic blizzards ?

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Well then..to be meteorologicallycorrect....more pressure ='s lighter winds....less pressure ='s greater winds.....ehhh

In a roundabout way.

 

Wind is pressure difference. Wind goes from where there's a lot to where there's a little!

 

A low pressure system can be thought of as a massive vacuum cleaner in the sky. Air at the surface goes upwards and inwards.

 

A high pressure system is a massive hair dryer. Wind goes downwards and outwards.

 

Since a low pressure caused adiabatic cooling there is normally associated weather. This causes local variations of pressure, which is why lows are good for sailors.

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the closer you are to lower barometric pressure the greater the wind speed...

 

the closer you are to higher barometric pressure the lower ..well absence of wind speed...

 

 

it is perceived as wind......

 

 

I get it....the irony too...

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Well then..to be meteorologicallycorrect....more pressure ='s lighter winds....less pressure ='s greater winds.....ehhh

In a roundabout way.

 

though in an anti-roundabout way in the southern hemisphere, just checked the dunny

 

 

 

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Well then..to be meteorologicallycorrect....more pressure ='s lighter winds....less pressure ='s greater winds.....ehhh

In a roundabout way.

 

though in an anti-roundabout way in the southern hemisphere, just checked the dunny

 

And you would have seen the water slowly moving around the edges since it its further from the centre and less affected by the flush. Then as your turd got closer to the middle, it would move faster, until the suction was enough to pull it down.

 

Perfect illustration of the pressures being greater closer too the centre of a suck .

 

Unless of course it was massive and took up the whole bowl. Then it's movement would be san average of the water speed across the whole bowl!

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The OP (me) will probably still refer to it as wind, wind speed etc., unless I ever get the chance to do color commentary for a race!

So, the terms Light Air, Moderate Air, and Heavy Air . . . do they mean wind speed or pressure?

 

You might say "the wind is light on the left side of the course" as easily as saying "there is less pressure on the the left side" or "there is less wind on the left side."

 

Things are more descriptive with less words sometimes: Light #1 Genoa in place of Light Pressure Sails or Less Wind Genoa, or Storm Jib instead of the High Wind Speed Jib perhaps?

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Well then..to be meteorologicallycorrect....more pressure ='s lighter winds....less pressure ='s greater winds.....ehhh

In a roundabout way.

 

though in an anti-roundabout way in the southern hemisphere, just checked the dunny

 

And you would have seen the water slowly moving around the edges since it its further from the centre and less affected by the flush. Then as your turd got closer to the middle, it would move faster, until the suction was enough to pull it down.

 

Perfect illustration of the pressures being greater closer too the centre of a suck .

 

Unless of course it was massive and took up the whole bowl. Then it's movement would be san average of the water speed across the whole bowl!

 

hence the phrase Do Rag entered the lexicon....

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Well then..to be meteorologicallycorrect....more pressure ='s lighter winds....less pressure ='s greater winds.....ehhh

In a roundabout way.

 

though in an anti-roundabout way in the southern hemisphere, just checked the dunny

 

And you would have seen the water slowly moving around the edges since it its further from the centre and less affected by the flush. Then as your turd got closer to the middle, it would move faster, until the suction was enough to pull it down.

 

Perfect illustration of the pressures being greater closer too the centre of a suck .

 

Unless of course it was massive and took up the whole bowl. Then it's movement would be san average of the water speed across the whole bowl!

The outside of the circle moves faster.

 

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Well then..to be meteorologicallycorrect....more pressure ='s lighter winds....less pressure ='s greater winds.....ehhh

In a roundabout way.

 

though in an anti-roundabout way in the southern hemisphere, just checked the dunny

 

And you would have seen the water slowly moving around the edges since it its further from the centre and less affected by the flush. Then as your turd got closer to the middle, it would move faster, until the suction was enough to pull it down.

 

Perfect illustration of the pressures being greater closer too the centre of a suck .

 

Unless of course it was massive and took up the whole bowl. Then it's movement would be san average of the water speed across the whole bowl!

The outside of the circle moves faster.

 

 

Floater ,

 

You as right. A turd at the edge has higher velocity since it covers more distance for the same rpm.

 

Dw

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an inverse effect to an ice-dancers arms then (tks mighetto)

 

must have something to do with the aesthetics, rarely have turds resembled a princesses limbs ?

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in weather the wind speed is greater closer to the center....of the low pressure

 

water spout.....hurricane...ect and I suspect in the toilet bowl as well.....it is not the same as a spinning disc where the dot on the outside is covering a greater distance in the same time as the dot on the inside......

 

I am open for correction

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I think this could be the most retarded post I have seen on this place...

Seriously you have never heard someone talk about better pressure?!?! What's next I didn't know it was called snatch?

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the closer you are to lower barometric pressure the greater the wind speed...

 

the closer you are to higher barometric pressure the lower ..well absence of wind speed...

 

 

it is perceived as wind......

 

 

I get it....the irony too...

 

 

You guys talking about atmospheric pressure missed another meaning. The wind creates pressure on the sails. That is a much more direct way for the term to come in to use.

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I think this could be the most retarded post I have seen on this place...

Seriously you have never heard someone talk about better pressure?!?! What's next I didn't know it was called snatch?

 

 

All the time.

 

I'm guessing this is what seperates the cruisers from the racers

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You are correct.....

 

in weather the wind speed is greater closer to the center....of the low pressure

 

water spout.....hurricane...ect and I suspect in the toilet bowl as well.....it is not the same as a spinning disc where the dot on the outside is covering a greater distance in the same time as the dot on the inside......

 

I am open for correction

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Ever held a spinnaker sheet? "Good pressure here". The term has been in use for at least 15 years.

 

20+ years.

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... ...

 

 

You guys talking about atmospheric pressure missed another meaning. The wind creates pressure on the sails. That is a much more direct way for the term to come in to use.

 

IMHO the announcers using "pressure" to mean "wind strength" are wrong. It's all about pressure on the sails which can mean more wind but not necessarily.

 

For example, spinnaker trimmer says "Losing pressure" and the helmsman heats up a little, a few second later the spinnaker trimmer says "Good pressure." The wind velocity stays constant throughout the episode.

 

FB- Doug

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... ...

 

 

You guys talking about atmospheric pressure missed another meaning. The wind creates pressure on the sails. That is a much more direct way for the term to come in to use.

 

IMHO the announcers using "pressure" to mean "wind strength" are wrong. It's all about pressure on the sails which can mean more wind but not necessarily.

 

For example, spinnaker trimmer says "Losing pressure" and the helmsman heats up a little, a few second later the spinnaker trimmer says "Good pressure." The wind velocity stays constant throughout the episode.

 

FB- Doug

 

Nobody is confused about what "pressure" means...when trimming or steering...

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You could use suction!

 

"Hey, it looks like the left side sucks!"

 

"Spinnaker's beginning to suck!"

 

Just trying to help. :D

 

And there could be different sides, anathema to each other. Newton (pressure)or Bernoulli (sucking). Imagine the bar talk! Imagine the SA forum!

 

And then there would be the Treffetz (sp?) plane guys! It's tribal!

 

Edit- it's also spelled ' 'trefftz'. Ack!

 

Popcorn! Popcorn!

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Oh gawd, now we have vocabulary nazi's on SA. Call it "pressure," call it whatever the eff you want.

 

Just hope there is some.

 

++++++11111111111111111111111

 

 

 

damn straight....

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You could use suction!

 

"Hey, it looks like the left side sucks!"

 

"Spinnaker's beginning to suck!"

 

 

Given the age of our kites I'm sure the wise-ass answer on our boat would be "when did it stop??"

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... ...

 

 

You guys talking about atmospheric pressure missed another meaning. The wind creates pressure on the sails. That is a much more direct way for the term to come in to use.

 

IMHO the announcers using "pressure" to mean "wind strength" are wrong. It's all about pressure on the sails which can mean more wind but not necessarily.

 

For example, spinnaker trimmer says "Losing pressure" and the helmsman heats up a little, a few second later the spinnaker trimmer says "Good pressure." The wind velocity stays constant throughout the episode.

 

FB- Doug

 

Nobody is confused about what "pressure" means...when trimming or steering...

 

 

I concur, "pressure" is in no way confusing. If the trimmer says losing pressure in the absence of a course change, I would bet 90% of the time its a reduction on wind velocity and there for a reduction in pressure applied to the sail.

Puffs and lulls are descriptive of the available energy. Pressure is descriptive of the effect of that energy on a sail. As sailboats get closer or exceed windspeed, the use of pressure is probably the more accurate term as it relates better to the effect of changes of air velocity (thus pressure) on the moving sail plan. As far as use in a contemporary racing environment, its been a common term in my experience since the early 80's. Although in fact what the trimmer is experiencing is not "pressure", but "strain", the second derivative of the effect of capturing moving air molecules.

 

A couple of things to note:

 

"Pressure" has been used for centuries to describe the action of moving air on sails. Melville, O'Brien, Conrad, even nautical painters like Turner, wrote and spoke about ships being "under a full press of sail" or "pressed down by the wind".

 

Engineers and building codes use a table equating wind speed to pounds per square foot of pressure for lateral structural analysis, i.e. building as sail.

 

"Pressure" is a very viable term of art.

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