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RiptideIRL

Antal Low Friction Rings and Genoa Cars

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So for my no. 1 we use barber haulers on the sheet. BHs then run through the Genoa Car. Its an old system but it works - kinda of. We have some of those side-flipping barton genoa cars but the BHs dont stay on the roller. When we tack the leward car falls to leward (obvious I know) before the pressure comes onto the BH. For some reason the BH bring the car back upright which is a pain in the ass as the rope then frayed due to all the friction. My solution to this problem is the following:

 

Get 2 of these bad boys: 14.10 Rings

2 of these cars: Barton cars

 

My question is; what is the best way to lash the rings onto the car? They need to be tight to the metal ring on the car and also right around the ring - preferably standing upright but not essential.

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One of these looped Loupe_5mm__150_m_4e5ab7c62edc0.jpgthrough the Car and over the top of the Low friction ring.

 

Then figure 8 lash between the ring and the car to pull it tight and stop the loops coming off. It will probably sit 1/2 to 1" high.

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am having a real hard time understanding what you are doing and would love to know. I use different terms where some folks use Barberhauler. A Barberhauler as originally used by Barber pulls out on the sheet to increase the sheeting angle. The opposite of that is an inhauler which pulls in on the sheet to decrease the sheeting angle. If you are pulling down to simulate moving the car forward, I call that a twing. Given these definitions, I would like to know which you are using.

 

In any event, the simplest way to use these Antal rings is the way they are used on my friends new Beneteau-30 and that is to just run the control line through the ring. For example, on a twing, tie the control line off on the rail car, bring it through the ring, back down through the car and back to your winch or power block. In the case of the Beneteau, they use a single block with a becket and tie the control line on the becket, then through the Antal ring, back throught the block, and back to the cockpit. The advantage of using the ring this way is you get a free 2:1 advantage. Because of friction it will be less than 2:1 but it will be way more than the 1:1 you would get by lashing the control to the ring. I made a sketch using both a twing and inhauler on a blade jib here My link. In this sketch I am using carabiners instead of rings but I now use a single ring for both jobs.

 

This is not, however, the way the rings are intended to be used and you can just as easily use a $5 REI Repel Ring like this My link

 

I use Amsteel for the control line as it goes on to a block arrangement for power so I am not pulling on the Amsteel. On the twing I go to a winch and switch to a covered line for the tail around the winch.

 

But if you want to use the Antal rings as intended, you basically either use an tight eye splice onto the ring or use the loop as MSA suggested.

 

Allen

L-36.com

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Been using these for a couple years now. Has worked really well for us. Spliced a loop in 3/16 sk75 large enough to make 4 passes around the antal ring and the padeye on the car, then seized at the base of the ring with 2mm sk75 to tighten the loop.

post-17427-127472542418_thumb.jpg

 

NS

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Been using these for a couple years now. Has worked really well for us. Spliced a loop in 3/16 sk75 large enough to make 4 passes around the antal ring and the padeye on the car, then seized at the base of the ring with 2mm sk75 to tighten the loop.

post-17427-127472542418_thumb.jpg

 

NS

 

Do you have a picture showing more of what is going on with this line? What I see is a line that has a ring that moves along its axis apparently doing nothing. I assume that line actually goes off somewhere and that moving the car makes the adjustment. Anyway, can you explain more?

 

Allen

 

 

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No pic handy, but I can try to explain. The ring and car is my adjustable jib/genoa "block", just replaced a bearinged block with a low friction ring. The white line is the sheet, the yellow and white line (Apex) is a 3:1 genoa car adjustment line.

post-17427-127472542418_thumb.jpg

 

Hope that helps.

 

NS

 

 

Do you have a picture showing more of what is going on with this line? What I see is a line that has a ring that moves along its axis apparently doing nothing. I assume that line actually goes off somewhere and that moving the car makes the adjustment. Anyway, can you explain more?

 

Allen

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No pic handy, but I can try to explain. The ring and car is my adjustable jib/genoa "block", just replaced a bearinged block with a low friction ring. The white line is the sheet, the yellow and white line (Apex) is a 3:1 genoa car adjustment line.

post-17427-127472542418_thumb.jpg

 

Hope that helps.

 

NS

 

 

That is very clear. Thanks. I was looking for how that was a Barberhauler and that had me confused. As a jib car it is all clear.

 

Allen

 

 

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am having a real hard time understanding what you are doing and would love to know. I use different terms where some folks use Barberhauler. A Barberhauler as originally used by Barber pulls out on the sheet to increase the sheeting angle. The opposite of that is an inhauler which pulls in on the sheet to decrease the sheeting angle. If you are pulling down to simulate moving the car forward, I call that a twing. Given these definitions, I would like to know which you are using.

 

Yea Its a block that the twing (learned something new thanks!) will run through. Basically we use this twing to simulate bringing the car forward/back, plus we have another track for bringing the sheet lead inboard/outboard (see attached photo). Sheet = blue, Twing = green, pink = approx position of No 1 clew when beating. So its the car that the green twing is running through that I need to replace with a ring+car config.

post-45723-003026300 1340267423_thumb.jpg

(ignore the random grey line - paint flipped out and wasnt arsed doing it again!)

Might use the low friction rings on this too at some point.

 

Thanks for all your help guys. Pictures are great too.

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Do you find you get a lot of sheet deflection and very bad gust response from that arrangement... i would hate to try and trim that, the foot would always setup flat for any given leech tension/twist required.

 

Why would you not use the usual fore-aft car system, ie 6:1 and then play sheet tension.

 

Currently you have a 1:1 jib sheet and then a 1:1 "twing" (can we please can this "lead", Ie "more lead up or down please")

 

If your theoretical sheeting point on the deck is aft of a Fore/aft track your track is in the wrong place or the Jib Clew is too high.

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Have you swapped from overlapping to non overlapping?

 

How about swapping out from 3 tracks to just one athwartship track forward? Or even go Carkeek 40 (and Dragon and XOD) style, and just have a floating low friction ring, adjusted by two lines - one inboard and one outboard. Fairlead aft on deck to ensure a good lead to the winch.

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Do you find you get a lot of sheet deflection and very bad gust response from that arrangement... i would hate to try and trim that, the foot would always setup flat for any given leech tension/twist required.

 

Why would you not use the usual fore-aft car system, ie 6:1 and then play sheet tension.

 

Currently you have a 1:1 jib sheet and then a 1:1 "twing" (can we please can this "lead", Ie "more lead up or down please")

 

I admit that after we bought the Riptide I was a bit sceptical about the genoa system. But since then Ive grown quite fond of it, but I dont quite know why. My inital plan was to use the standard 1 track stepup with a purchase adjustment system but due to the work and cost involved I decided to give this system a try. Plus we had 4 140% no. 1s cut, I assume, for this system, since its stock.

post-45723-006963500 1340270252_thumb.jpg

I know its a probably a no 3 considering the weather conditions in the photo but thats the system as shown on the builder brochure. Currently fixed up 2 lewmar 40ST winches to replace the stock pit winches to make everything a bit easyer to adjust. Planning to just leave the cars on the winches upwind for easy adjustment.

 

If your theoretical sheeting point on the deck is aft of a Fore/aft track your track is in the wrong place or the Jib Clew is too high.

 

I remember trying the lead/twing on the outboard track but it really didnt look nice at all. All the genoas set nice from the inside track so I went with that. Obviously I would like the lead to pull at a 90° angle, because I assume any more than that is just extra load for the same effect since Im working against the sheet. Its at ~65° angle at the moment at feels like everything is about to explode. In fact I lost one of the cars that the lead runs through last week.

 

Have you swapped from overlapping to non overlapping?

 

How about swapping out from 3 tracks to just one athwartship track forward? Or even go Carkeek 40 (and Dragon and XOD) style, and just have a floating low friction ring, adjusted by two lines - one inboard and one outboard. Fairlead aft on deck to ensure a good lead to the winch.

 

Still on overlapping. The big no. 1s we have are very nice for the drifters and light days. The leads/twings become a non-issue once we drop to the 3 as they arent used. Think I know what you mean about the C40 system but got a pic handy for arguments sake?

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Do you find you get a lot of sheet deflection and very bad gust response from that arrangement... i would hate to try and trim that, the foot would always setup flat for any given leech tension/twist required.

 

Why would you not use the usual fore-aft car system, ie 6:1 and then play sheet tension.

 

Currently you have a 1:1 jib sheet and then a 1:1 "twing" (can we please can this "lead", Ie "more lead up or down please")

 

I admit that after we bought the Riptide I was a bit sceptical about the genoa system. But since then Ive grown quite fond of it, but I dont quite know why. My inital plan was to use the standard 1 track stepup with a purchase adjustment system but due to the work and cost involved I decided to give this system a try. Plus we had 4 140% no. 1s cut, I assume, for this system, since its stock.

post-45723-006963500 1340270252_thumb.jpg

I know its a probably a no 3 considering the weather conditions in the photo but thats the system as shown on the builder brochure. Currently fixed up 2 lewmar 40ST winches to replace the stock pit winches to make everything a bit easyer to adjust. Planning to just leave the cars on the winches upwind for easy adjustment.

 

If your theoretical sheeting point on the deck is aft of a Fore/aft track your track is in the wrong place or the Jib Clew is too high.

 

I remember trying the lead/twing on the outboard track but it really didnt look nice at all. All the genoas set nice from the inside track so I went with that. Obviously I would like the lead to pull at a 90° angle, because I assume any more than that is just extra load for the same effect since Im working against the sheet. Its at ~65° angle at the moment at feels like everything is about to explode. In fact I lost one of the cars that the lead runs through last week.

 

Have you swapped from overlapping to non overlapping?

 

How about swapping out from 3 tracks to just one athwartship track forward? Or even go Carkeek 40 (and Dragon and XOD) style, and just have a floating low friction ring, adjusted by two lines - one inboard and one outboard. Fairlead aft on deck to ensure a good lead to the winch.

 

Still on overlapping. The big no. 1s we have are very nice for the drifters and light days. The leads/twings become a non-issue once we drop to the 3 as they arent used. Think I know what you mean about the C40 system but got a pic handy for arguments sake?

 

Sorry if i wasn't clear, i would not sheet it to the outboard track, that would just make it flatter.. you need to have control of the sheeting point, it is what defines the shape, Overly long leads = no control.

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Sorry if i wasn't clear, i would not sheet it to the outboard track, that would just make it flatter.. you need to have control of the sheeting point, it is what defines the shape, Overly long leads = no control.

 

Ah sorry now I understand what you mean. In other words the lead isnt restricting the movement of the sheet enough due to the length of the lead. Granted I have noticed the flex/bounce on the sheet when on the edge of the no. 1 and it obviously has a detremental effect. Although at that stage we really should have ditched to the 2. We can only hold the 1 up to 18 at the most.

 

I would prefer the track to be furth back/directly under the clew when set. Suppose I could fit a standing block there and run the lead through that ...

 

Anyway I might just pick up those rings and blocks anyway. Might redo the leads themselves with rings too while im at it.

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If you draw a straight line from the lead/turningblock to the tack you will notice the whole sail will set "outside" of that line. When a sail is designed the Sheeting tracks are measured from centerline (Sheeting angle), allowing the sails to fall outside of this is not ideal.

 

Ie, we gain 3 degrees height on a boat I sail on by inhauling 2" bringing the clew just inside the track. at 4" we gain 5 degrees and can actually hold a lane upwind.

 

I know it sometimes isn't practical to move the track.. But there are a few things you can do to make it better if you are changing the systems anyway. Oh and have the next sails design to sheet to the track.:P

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am having a real hard time understanding what you are doing and would love to know. I use different terms where some folks use Barberhauler. A Barberhauler as originally used by Barber pulls out on the sheet to increase the sheeting angle. The opposite of that is an inhauler which pulls in on the sheet to decrease the sheeting angle. If you are pulling down to simulate moving the car forward, I call that a twing. Given these definitions, I would like to know which you are using.

 

Yea Its a block that the twing (learned something new thanks!) will run through. Basically we use this twing to simulate bringing the car forward/back, plus we have another track for bringing the sheet lead inboard/outboard (see attached photo). Sheet = blue, Twing = green, pink = approx position of No 1 clew when beating. So its the car that the green twing is running through that I need to replace with a ring+car config.

post-45723-003026300 1340267423_thumb.jpg

(ignore the random grey line - paint flipped out and wasnt arsed doing it again!)

Might use the low friction rings on this too at some point.

 

Thanks for all your help guys. Pictures are great too.

 

This is very similar to what I use on my boat. I use the round cross section REI ring that I linked in my previous post. I use Amsteel as the control line for the twing in the section that goes through all this and switch to normal yacht braid for the section around the winch. On my inhauler, I also use Amsteel where it goes through rings but on that setup I have blocks for a 8:1 advantage and just switch to yacht braid in the block arrangement.

 

I have done testing on the friction you get in these setups and have made some rough calculations on some options. I will assume that the low friction ring you are looking at will be about the same as the REI ring. Here are the basic differences in ring size with Amsteel. Low number is good:

1) 1/4 inch ring 1.5

2) 1/2 inch ring 1.4

4 1 inch ring 1.3

 

The ring you are looking at is .6 diameter so it is going to be very close to the REI ring. I assume the same.

 

Here are some calculations for different options.

1) Low friction bearing block 1:1 - this is the baseline

2) Running the twing control line through a low friction ring - 0.7:1

3) Using just the eye on the car, attaching the control line to it, running it through the ring the sheet goes through (a low friction ring or the REI ring), then back down through the eye in the car. - 1.1:1 in other words this is better than using a bearing block on a 1:1 setup

4) Same as above but using a low friction ring attached to the eye on the car. - 1.2:1

 

In summary, what you are proposing with the low friction ring would give you a 0.7:1 setup where if you just rig it to the ring on the car you have you get 1.1:1 or about 60% more power and a simpler cheaper solution. See My link for details but just realize I don't use those carabiners any more as the round cross section rings make the setup slightly more efficient and generally cleaner.

 

Let me just add that having the twing and inhauler on the same ring has a couple of advantages. It keeps the ring from rattling around on the deck when it is on the lazy sheet. It also stabilizes the jib lead as you are holding it both in and down.

 

Allen

 

 

 

 

 

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Ah I see what you are saying Allen. Thanks for that link!

 

Just one thing. In those drawings you have the twing running from the winch through a car on the genoa track. There must be a lot of friction there surely? Or maybe I'm just overestimating it.

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Ah I see what you are saying Allen. Thanks for that link!

 

Just one thing. In those drawings you have the twing running from the winch through a car on the genoa track. There must be a lot of friction there surely? Or maybe I'm just overestimating it.

 

Amsteel is very slippery and the friction isn't that bad. If you use yacht braid or something with a cover, you would get a lot of friction. In the test I did, the friction across a 90 degree bend around a 1/4 inch ring lost 35% of the force due to friction. That is why that system is only 1.1:1 instead of 2:1so there is a lot of loss but it is still better than the 1:1 no friction case you are starting with using a bearing block and a control line that terminates on the twing's ring.

 

If you were to switch to a low friction ring to go from 1.1:1 to 1.2:1 and then to a 30:1 winch the total is either 33:1 or 36:1 and I just don't think it matters as both these numbers are way more than what you would ever need to pull in a twing. Even a 10:1 winch gives way more power than you need with either setup. I don't even think the guys used a winch handle to pull the twing down, they just pulled sideways on the control line between its fairlead and the winch to get some advantage then pulled in on the winch as they released the sideways pull. I forget what that technique is called.

 

Also, in my case I would want to pull the twing ring all the way to the deck if I could when sailing off the wind so adding anything to reduce the friction a small amount would get int he say of doing that so really isn't worth it.

 

I am working on an update to the article that includes a revised sketch which is below.

 

Allen

L-36.com

twing.png

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Concerning your red twing for off-the-wind sailing, we use a snatch block which we place as far OUT as possible, and another sheet.

It is ok to have it down, but much better to have it out.

 

 

Best

 

 

Ah I see what you are saying Allen. Thanks for that link!

 

Just one thing. In those drawings you have the twing running from the winch through a car on the genoa track. There must be a lot of friction there surely? Or maybe I'm just overestimating it.

 

Amsteel is very slippery and the friction isn't that bad. If you use yacht braid or something with a cover, you would get a lot of friction. In the test I did, the friction across a 90 degree bend around a 1/4 inch ring lost 35% of the force due to friction. That is why that system is only 1.1:1 instead of 2:1so there is a lot of loss but it is still better than the 1:1 no friction case you are starting with using a bearing block and a control line that terminates on the twing's ring.

 

If you were to switch to a low friction ring to go from 1.1:1 to 1.2:1 and then to a 30:1 winch the total is either 33:1 or 36:1 and I just don't think it matters as both these numbers are way more than what you would ever need to pull in a twing. Even a 10:1 winch gives way more power than you need with either setup. I don't even think the guys used a winch handle to pull the twing down, they just pulled sideways on the control line between its fairlead and the winch to get some advantage then pulled in on the winch as they released the sideways pull. I forget what that technique is called.

 

Also, in my case I would want to pull the twing ring all the way to the deck if I could when sailing off the wind so adding anything to reduce the friction a small amount would get int he say of doing that so really isn't worth it.

 

I am working on an update to the article that includes a revised sketch which is below.

 

Allen

L-36.com

twing.png

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Concerning your red twing for off-the-wind sailing, we use a snatch block which we place as far OUT as possible, and another sheet.

It is ok to have it down, but much better to have it out.

 

 

Best

 

Agreed and an excellent suggestion. In our case this setup is for our blade jib and there isn't any track outboard up that far. Ideally this sail is not used way off the wind anyway. The twing is used any time we are on a heading other than a beat.

 

Allen

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Can I ask why you need the "twing" or lead, when in that picture if you move you car forward 1/3 of the track length your lead angle would be correct??

 

The set up makes no sense.. You have a track.. use it..

 

If there was no track then yes this makes sense, minus the Roller fairlead.. But why complicate a very simple process??

 

I am working on an adjustable lead and inhauler setup at the moment for a new boat.. It makes sense as it means no track to save weight and cost, and also we can use Low friction rings to remove movable parts from the equation for simpler maintenance and reliability. It's either one or the other.. Not both.

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Can I ask why you need the "twing" or lead, when in that picture if you move you car forward 1/3 of the track length your lead angle would be correct??

 

The set up makes no sense.. You have a track.. use it..

 

If there was no track then yes this makes sense, minus the Roller fairlead.. But why complicate a very simple process??

 

I am working on an adjustable lead and inhauler setup at the moment for a new boat.. It makes sense as it means no track to save weight and cost, and also we can use Low friction rings to remove movable parts from the equation for simpler maintenance and reliability. It's either one or the other.. Not both.

 

I have gone back and forth on twing vs moving the car. The biggest reasons revolve around the fact that you cannot just pull the pin up and move the car under load. Normally, people move cars when they are not under load after a tack. In races with very few tacks, and when transitioning from a beat to a reach on the same tack this is not possible.

 

On my larger jib, with the car on the rail track, I had an eye installed on the car so that I can attach a line to move the car. I can rig the pin up to keep it from engaging. There is a cheek block forward of the rail and I can rig all this so that the car can be moved. I ran it like this for one season. It still isn't easy to do and to move it back you need to get up and kick it. I looked into getting a bearing car that would move more smoothly but my old track has gaps and the balls would get eaten up. Changing to a easy guide car would mean a new track. Isn't going to happen.

 

The other reason to use a twing instead of moving the car is that it is just a lot easier to use. Adjusting is easy and releasing it back to the old setting is as simple as releasing the twing control line. You don't have to go and kick the car back and hope you have the control line in the same place.

 

My inboard track is new and could support an easy guide car. However, the blocks that are on those cars take up a lot of space and that would cut down significantly on the range of adjustment I would get. I went through all this before switching to my latest setting with the ring instead of the carabiner. This setup, with a ring for both the inhauler and the twing works so well I would not consider switching to a movable car. It is just so easy and smooth to make adjustments and no issues about forcing the car to move back.

 

That said, some boats tack and gybe a lot when they race. In that case, just move the car when there is no load on it and put up with it being in the wrong place for a short time if need be. All the racing I do tends to have very few tacks or gybes. Downwind, one gybe around a mark. Upwind, one tack half way back. That's it. Moving cars when they are not loaded is not a strategy that works for us. If it works for you, and it may for many racers, then use it. If you are not racing, tack, move the car, then tack back. I would not use these setups if I were not racing.

 

Allen

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That jib car can take a 3000 lb working load so that should give an idea of what kind of sheet loads are involved. Your twing is set up with a 2:1 purchase.

 

Have you thought of just using a second sheet on a second car back to the secondary winch? That way everything is properly sized and you have excellent purchase in any condition. It is likely that you already have all of this hardware.

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That jib car can take a 3000 lb working load so that should give an idea of what kind of sheet loads are involved. Your twing is set up with a 2:1 purchase.

 

Have you thought of just using a second sheet on a second car back to the secondary winch? That way everything is properly sized and you have excellent purchase in any condition. It is likely that you already have all of this hardware.

 

The advantage of a second car would be if that car could be placed outboard of the inboard track. I don't have track on the rail that far forward and the twing works well enough that it isn't worth it to me to go to the trouble of rigging multiple sheets.

 

The twing is 1/8 inch Amsteel Blue which is rated at 2500 pounds. At 2:1 that means it can hold 5000 pounds or that it can pull down a jib sheet with 7000 pounds. These are breaking strengths but in the ball park of the breaking strength of the sheet. Perhaps I should up one size on the line.

 

But the basic reason to use a twing rather than dual sheets or a movable car is that it is just so easy.

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If it works for you allen fine.

 

But as I said it should be one or the other.. Save weight and remove the track and have a floating lead position OR make it simple and adjust the Car. 95% of fore/aft tracks are adjustable, a very simple 4:1. Even Beneteau's come out with this set up!

 

Precise control at the least weight is the goal. Hell i bet if you removed the track completely you could sell it for $50 and pay for the low friction rings and Dyneema needed for a proper floating lead.

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My boat is 12,000 pounds and 36 feet long. It was built in 1956 and is wood. In the last race, we beat a Tartan-10 in a 6 mile race by 2 minutes boat for boat (uncorrected and they owe us over 2 minutes). They weigh 6500 pounds. They flew a spinnaker on the downwind leg where I kept my 90% jib up. It seems to be working.

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I didn't take any pictures yet, but I just set up a horizontal and vertical "twing" system on my cat. I was out last Tuesday and had a chance to use it: meow! That would be the cat's meow! I used two Antal rings, 4 lengths of 1/8" amsteel, 4 cam cleats, and I already had loop cars on my jib tracks. The ability to move the jib tack in 3 dimensions, easily, is way cool. The jib has never performed so well due to the ability to so accurately trim it. Thanks for the inspiration!

 

That jib car can take a 3000 lb working load so that should give an idea of what kind of sheet loads are involved. Your twing is set up with a 2:1 purchase.

 

Have you thought of just using a second sheet on a second car back to the secondary winch? That way everything is properly sized and you have excellent purchase in any condition. It is likely that you already have all of this hardware.

 

The advantage of a second car would be if that car could be placed outboard of the inboard track. I don't have track on the rail that far forward and the twing works well enough that it isn't worth it to me to go to the trouble of rigging multiple sheets.

 

The twing is 1/8 inch Amsteel Blue which is rated at 2500 pounds. At 2:1 that means it can hold 5000 pounds or that it can pull down a jib sheet with 7000 pounds. These are breaking strengths but in the ball park of the breaking strength of the sheet. Perhaps I should up one size on the line.

 

But the basic reason to use a twing rather than dual sheets or a movable car is that it is just so easy.

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I am working on an update to the article that includes a revised sketch which is below.

Allen

L-36.com

 

Thanks Allen - good info

 

And a congratulations on the work your putting into the L-36.com website - a nice bunch of tips there too. :)

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I am working on an update to the article that includes a revised sketch which is below.

Allen

L-36.com

 

Thanks Allen - good info

 

And a congratulations on the work your putting into the L-36.com website - a nice bunch of tips there too. :)

 

Thank you Ocean View. I appreciate the comment.

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Been using these for a couple years now. Has worked really well for us. Spliced a loop in 3/16 sk75 large enough to make 4 passes around the antal ring and the padeye on the car, then seized at the base of the ring with 2mm sk75 to tighten the loop.

post-17427-127472542418_thumb.jpg

 

NS

 

I need to do a pair of these for this weekend. But not totally following your instructions.

 

How did you splice a loop and get the 4 passes over the ring and car eye?

 

Alternative? Locked Brumel around the ring, figure 8 lash the ring and car, finish with half hitches between ring and car. Solid?

 

Thanks Much!

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Alternative sounds good, the loops (I assume) would be done by going through the base (padeye) twice, then bury into eachother. When all finished, open up the double loop then slide the ring in, and lash.

 

HW

 

 

Been using these for a couple years now. Has worked really well for us. Spliced a loop in 3/16 sk75 large enough to make 4 passes around the antal ring and the padeye on the car, then seized at the base of the ring with 2mm sk75 to tighten the loop.
post-17427-127472542418_thumb.jpg

NS

 

I need to do a pair of these for this weekend. But not totally following your instructions.

 

How did you splice a loop and get the 4 passes over the ring and car eye?

 

Alternative? Locked Brumel around the ring, figure 8 lash the ring and car, finish with half hitches between ring and car. Solid?

 

Thanks Much!

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What does the low friction ring have over a normal fli flop car. I know it's lighter but surly a roller sheave is less friction therefore faster tacks on a big overlapper. Are they just trendy like SUPs?

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Lighter, less expensive, simpler, less apt to fail.

 

Best with static loads.

 

Note that I do have primary genoa cars (with sheaves).

 

I'll be using these "ring cars" for temporary short sheet, taking the load off the winch until the outboard sheet is on the winch.

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