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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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belandm

See if this is too crazy

34 posts in this topic

Okay, rigging had to be modified to fit the SF Bay rig. Had a local (highly recommended) rigger cut down the furler and headstay per my measurements. I explained at the time that the rig was tuned with the masthead forward about 6" of where I wanted it for "at the dock" tension, to keep the strain off the jury forestay, so it needs to be longer than the pin to pin measurement. He delivered and installed the furler long, probably by about 6". A little much since its not a straight line, but whatever.

 

Tightened the backstay and got most of the slack out of the headstay. Adding the backstay tension adjuster will take another inch or so out and leave the masthead where I want it. That leaves the forestay still slack - I want another inch or two taken up. No problem, Harken furlers have a turnbuckle built in. Today I disassembled the furler to tighten the turnbuckle.

 

And it was delivered with about 3/8" of thread to take up on the top and about 5" on the bottom.

 

3/8" is not enough. For that matter, the die marker on the threads that's supposed to not be visible is still clear of the unit on the bottom. Clearly *way* off.

 

Here's the "am I nuts" part. In order to adjust the headstay tension I've taken all the tension off the forestay. It's just hanging loose. Am I crazy to think I can lash it to the bow pulpit, remove the bottom pin, turn the bottom into the turnbuckle (and turn the top the other way to gain a little space) and then put the pin back in?

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Am I understanding that the turnbuckle adjustment body has been tightened on top and not on the bottom? Absolutely you should adjust to balance the length top and bottom, and then adjust as required. The only comment I'd make is I wouldn't just lash the headstay to the pulpit, I'd use at least a jib halyard fastened to something secure on the front and tensioned to ensure the rig stays up.

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Am I understanding that the turnbuckle adjustment body has been tightened on top and not on the bottom? Absolutely you should adjust to balance the length top and bottom, and then adjust as required. The only comment I'd make is I wouldn't just lash the headstay to the pulpit, I'd use at least a jib halyard fastened to something secure on the front and tensioned to ensure the rig stays up.

Yes, there's a halyard clipped to the toe rail and tensioned already (since I had to take all tension off the headstay to make the adjustment - it's step 0 of Harken's instructions.)

 

Okay, some guy on the internet says I'm not crazy, good enough for me...

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Am I understanding that the turnbuckle adjustment body has been tightened on top and not on the bottom? Absolutely you should adjust to balance the length top and bottom, and then adjust as required. The only comment I'd make is I wouldn't just lash the headstay to the pulpit, I'd use at least a jib halyard fastened to something secure on the front and tensioned to ensure the rig stays up.

Yes, there's a halyard clipped to the toe rail and tensioned already (since I had to take all tension off the headstay to make the adjustment - it's step 0 of Harken's instructions.)

 

Okay, some guy on the internet says I'm not crazy, good enough for me...

 

wanna buy some land???

 

Hey, I replaced my forestay and furler, with the mast up. In the rain. Your job is easy!

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I mostly just wanted to verify I don't need to take the furler down again to do this. I don't know if Bob and Hobot are up for another "tail the winch and send Matt up the mast" today.

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Went without a hitch (except the ones on the line keeping the forestay contained... Ha! I made a funny.)

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I need to head to Oak Harbor tomorrow, let me know if a side trip to Anacortes is in order.

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Sadly, I think yes. Every bit of adjustment I can make isn't enough - the forestay needs to be made shorter, probably about 3-4 inches or so. I'm going to see if I can find a swageless fitting.

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The older Harkens have the turnbuckle in the drum, and the threads are different on the top and bottom - different TPI. I think the bottom is coarser, so to make the turnbuckle up all the way you will have to stab the top and make it up a number of turns before you stab the bottom.

 

Say there are 4" of thread top and bottom, but the bottom has 48 threads and the top has 60, to make it up fully you would stab the top, make up 12 turns, then stab the bottom and make it up the rest of the way.

 

Cheers,

 

CL

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The more I work with "experts" the more I realize that I'm better to do thing by my self.

 

Your forestay should have been cut exactly on spec for the dimension. I have built 3 Harken furlers and the work sheet is very good. Never does it ask you to build in a fudge factor.

 

Send me a ticket. I'll sort this out for you....but I think you are in good hands with Hobot :)

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I am hesitant to blame the rigger for the length problem because it was a bit of a telephone game - my wife to his assistant to him - and it would have been easy for "the masthead needs to come back 6 inches" to turn into "the forestay needs to be 6 inches longer". That said, I had a rigger do it only because I wanted it done fast while I did other things. I'm not going to pay to have it done again.

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On Bob's recommendation I moved GK's mast head back 5"... but there was some trigonometry involved.

 

Good luck and hang in there until it's perfect.

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Once again, if there are 3/8" of threads on top, 5" on bottom, you have all the room you need to make the adjustments. You simply have to take it apart and put it back together correctly, taking into account the differing threads per inch on the top and bottom. It's not difficult.

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Once again, if there are 3/8" of threads on top, 5" on bottom, you have all the room you need to make the adjustments. You simply have to take it apart and put it back together correctly, taking into account the differing threads per inch on the top and bottom. It's not difficult.

Yeah, that got solved (see above). The threads are not different on this one - it's a Mk III Unit 0 if that matters in your knowledge of these furlers. I have the manual in PDF form and confirmed the expected measurements there - should be same, top and bottom. I evened up the gap and then tightened as much as I could.

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Norseman fittings are easy and dependable. Hack off a few inches and move on. (The Bobbitt Maneuver).

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Matt, just getting home and getting the kiddoes fed. Oak Harbor won't take but an hour once I'm there. Start calling me around 9:30 am, we'll get this sorted for you.

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Bump! :)

 

 

Find the graph that gives the BHP and TORQUE curves.

 

 

 

Max efficiency is at peak torque.

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Setting up shop on the dock is always an adventure, this time nothing went swimming!

 

(gosh, I hope I remembered to finish off that cotter pin!)

 

016-1.jpg

 

 

All done.

 

018.jpg

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And it all works... tuned up this morning in 5-10 knots, blasted across Rosario Straight in 15 rising to 20, ducked through Lopez Pass and am anchored in Hunter Bay for the night tucked up under the shelter of a ridge on Lopez. Rest of the week and next week will be spend kicking around the San Juan and Gulf Islands with the wife and kids; schedule and distances determined by whim, meetups with friends, and the tolerance of the kids for being stuck on board.

 

New sails are definitely in order. Negotiations are proceeding based on the relatively new but fairly firm determination that next season is our last on Firefly; we're going to need something with separated sleeping spaces and room for more toys and friends by the following season.

 

6gE3P.jpg

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I love a happy ending!

 

 

 

 

(get your head outta the gutter, I didn't mean that type!)

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When we owned our 29, which we did for 8 1/2 years, we enjoyed the hell out of her. When it came time to move on, we were tempted by the 2-foot rule, but eventually we saw the error of our ways and decided to go for the 6-foot rule, plus all the upgrades we wanted, right off the bat. We figured there was no point fixing up a series of boats when we could just bankrupt ourselves in one swell foop. So far, so good. We're aiming sorta in the same direction now. Maybe a 9-foot rule next. ;)

 

BTW, congrats on getting back on the water. See if you can make the Saturna Island Lamb Barbie on July 1. We'll see you there. :)

 

http://www.saturnalambbarbeque.com/index.html

 

See those happy splayed lambies...

 

2012%20BBQ%20Poster.jpg

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And it all works... tuned up this morning in 5-10 knots, blasted across Rosario Straight in 15 rising to 20, ducked through Lopez Pass and am anchored in Hunter Bay for the night tucked up under the shelter of a ridge on Lopez. Rest of the week and next week will be spend kicking around the San Juan and Gulf Islands with the wife and kids; schedule and distances determined by whim, meetups with friends, and the tolerance of the kids for being stuck on board.

 

New sails are definitely in order. Negotiations are proceeding based on the relatively new but fairly firm determination that next season is our last on Firefly; we're going to need something with separated sleeping spaces and room for more toys and friends by the following season.

 

6gE3P.jpg

Damn, it looks good Matt! Kudos for soldiering on through that ordeal with the mast. Glad to hear you're in the islands now. I'd go for that lamb barbie thing!

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Best colors on an I-28 I've ever seen. Looks really sharp Matt. Glad to see you have her up and running.

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Great looking boat Matt, congratulations on getting her operational!

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It's summer and we need A LOT more of these - I'm out sailing and look at my pretty boat pics.

 

For some reason going through Lopez Pass is one of my favorite things in the San Juans. I always feel like I'm in a safe secret place once in Lopez Sound. Dunno why. Just love that area.

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It's great to see the boat complete, and looking great. It's a bummer to hear that after all your hard work, the boat isn't meeting your needs. I hope you at least enjoy her this season.

 

Ish is right- You'd better have at least 5-foot-istis.

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It isn't that the boat isn't meeting our needs - it's that we can see she's only barely meeting our needs. Specifically, the boat that was a wonderful upgrade over our old Cal 25 when we had a pair of toddlers is not bad with two small children - but they're bright, energetic, active children, and while we *could* make this work longer, financially we don't have to and going bigger will make it easier for sailing to be a joyful part of their childhood, not that thing Mom and Dad do and drag them along for.

 

And so far the boats my wife has approved of are in the 35-37 range. C&C 35, Tartan 37, a Baba 35, Islander 36 all met with approving comments and questions while dock-walking. The Ericson 38 wasn't bad, the Hunter was ugly, there was an older Catalina that she liked except the shape of the cabin top, etc.

 

Ishmael, the BBQ sounds great but I don't think the timing works - I'll see if we can't arrange it but I think we're dropping someone off in Friday Harbor Sunday evening, getting there from Saturna after the roast seems unlikely. I suspect next week we're in the Gulf Islands - I know, missing both sets of fireworks, but I can't bring myself to care too much. :)

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It isn't that the boat isn't meeting our needs - it's that we can see she's only barely meeting our needs. Specifically, the boat that was a wonderful upgrade over our old Cal 25 when we had a pair of toddlers is not bad with two small children - but they're bright, energetic, active children, and while we *could* make this work longer, financially we don't have to and going bigger will make it easier for sailing to be a joyful part of their childhood, not that thing Mom and Dad do and drag them along for.

 

And so far the boats my wife has approved of are in the 35-37 range. C&C 35, Tartan 37, a Baba 35, Islander 36 all met with approving comments and questions while dock-walking. The Ericson 38 wasn't bad, the Hunter was ugly, there was an older Catalina that she liked except the shape of the cabin top, etc.

 

Ishmael, the BBQ sounds great but I don't think the timing works - I'll see if we can't arrange it but I think we're dropping someone off in Friday Harbor Sunday evening, getting there from Saturna after the roast seems unlikely. I suspect next week we're in the Gulf Islands - I know, missing both sets of fireworks, but I can't bring myself to care too much. :)

 

Fours hours @ 5 knots, if you left at 5 you would be in Friday Harbor by 9, still daylight. :)

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Matt,

 

There's a GREAT Cal-40 for sale. (See other thread.) By today's standards it is really a 35' boat with a 40' LOA. Perfect for families, I grew up with a LOT of kids who sailed on 'em and I crewed many of them as a kid.

 

You should seriously consider it as the Cal-40 is about twice the boat of the others you've listed (no slight intended to the Baba). Once your munchkins get a little bigger you've got a crew and a competitive handicap racing boat.

 

BTW, you'd better hurry up before kimb buys it to fill up his illegal empty mooring.

 

Beau

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Matt,

 

There's a GREAT Cal-40 for sale. (See other thread.) By today's standards it is really a 35' boat with a 40' LOA. Perfect for families, I grew up with a LOT of kids who sailed on 'em and I crewed many of them as a kid.

 

You should seriously consider it as the Cal-40 is about twice the boat of the others you've listed (no slight intended to the Baba). Once your munchkins get a little bigger you've got a crew and a competitive handicap racing boat.

 

BTW, you'd better hurry up before kimb buys it to fill up his illegal empty mooring.

 

Beau

 

Actually I am working with another anarchist right now on that deal. He is on the east coast so I am his representative here. I spoke at length yesterday with the seller about the boat. Sounds like the buy of the year to me. I expect he will have me visit her in person with my camera this weekend. We got to get this girl a new owner who will gussy her up to the standard she deserves.

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OK! Glad you're on it. If you need "help" from other Cal-40 owners, let me know. I know a lot of that gang.

 

BV

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The Cal 40 got a flat "no", partly for moorage costs - it's a 35' in terms of interior space which is fine, but it's 40' when the marina bill arrives - and partly because the one overriding "this is not open to discussion" requirement my wife named is "no refits, no major projects. Needs new canvas? Fine. An upgrade here and there? No problem. Nothing that keeps us from sailing the boat for more than a few weeks."

 

But mostly because the "end of next season" thing is timing based on some major projects already in the works - selling one house (short sale), getting school started for both kids at DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH BOAT THAT WOULD BUY?!! per month, helping parents purchase retirement real estate, etc. Even at a steal of a deal there's just no way I could pull it off this year.

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Matt - Firefly looks great. The dark hull really sets off a great design. Glad to see you have her back together and looking so fine. You have done a wonderful job. Are you planning to make the Islander Meet up in Canada to show her off or just stay in the San Juans and enjoy your good work? Either way, great memories can be a good cure for 5ft-itis. Pat

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Matt,

 

Five, ten or fifteen years from now there will be a Cal-40 for sail. They're not going anywhere.

 

BV

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