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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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TMSAIL

Muslim brotherhood wins in Egypt

227 posts in this topic

Well the group that promised to NOT run a candidate for president has now won that same office. Glad president Obama has improved our standing with the Arab world.

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Really, yeah, the Muslim Brotherhood won the election but, has the military stepped down yet?

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So now the Pres is responsible for elections in OTHER countries?

WTF???????????

I guess we could have strafed the protesters with A-10s a few times. That would win us TONS of friends :rolleyes:

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So now the Pres is responsible for elections in OTHER countries?

WTF???????????

I guess we could have strafed the protesters with A-10s a few times. That would win us TONS of friends :rolleyes:

This isn't Libya, you know. The president however did express his support for the protesters. Using the bully pulpit like that does give one some responsibility. It was one of the reasons we were warned to avoid foreign entanglements. Still wise advice.

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Choice:

Support dictator that plays along with USA and is increasingly hated by the local population, who view their local dipshit El Presidente as an extension of the USA

 

OR

 

Support radical underground that wants to revert back to some kind of Sharia state and is not likely to play nice with the USA.

 

I see no real good options there, but at least the Muslim Brotherhood can't say we had our boots on their necks this time.

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Choice:

Support dictator that plays along with USA and is increasingly hated by the local population, who view their local dipshit El Presidente as an extension of the USA

 

OR

 

Support radical underground that wants to revert back to some kind of Sharia state and is not likely to play nice with the USA.

 

I see no real good options there, but at least the Muslim Brotherhood can't say we had our boots on their necks this time.

There is no good option there although, we did keep bribing them not to attack Israel in keeping with your first choice. Up until last year that is when there finally was the beginning of an uprising.

 

When there is no good choice, the official position for the US should be to keep silent on the subject. Just because a reporter asks a question doesn't mean it needs to be answered. Or, someone should just say it's not our concern. We will deal, as necessary, with egypt but will not become involved in their internal politics.

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So now the Pres is responsible for elections in OTHER countries?

WTF???????????

I guess we could have strafed the protesters with A-10s a few times. That would win us TONS of friends :rolleyes:

His Actions ARE NOT winning us friends

 

Here

 

Three years ago this month, President Barack Obama promised a transformation in America’s relations with the Muslim world. He gave the first television interview of his presidency to the Al Arabiya news channel six days after his inauguration, and sent a Persian New Year video address to the people of Iran a few months later. The high water mark of his stated quest to rehab our reputation occurred in Cairo, in a speech titled “A New Beginning.” There, Obama apologized for past sins against the Muslim world (like colonialism) and heralded the religion’s historical “tolerance and racial equality.”

 

To stay on message, Obama avoided mentioning some of the more uncomfortable realities—that our most significant terrorist threat is from those using Islam as a shield, as well as the gender discrimination Muslim women face, one of the world’s most egregious and systematic abuses of human rights.

 

But despite these efforts, it’s now clear that his platitudes didn’t get him very far. The men and women of the region, it seems, have seen through the Obama hype. According to a recently released Pew poll on Obama’s favorability in the Muslim world, 76 percent of Egyptians would like to make him a one-termer. Majorities in Pakistan, Lebanon, and Jordan don’t want to see Obama re-elected, either. “Respondents in predominantly Muslim countries continue to have a low opinion of Obama, and the American leader’s ratings have slipped significantly since 2009 in the five Muslim countries where trends are available, including a 13 percentage-point poll drop in Egypt,” according to Pew. “Opinion is generally against Obama in most of the predominantly Muslim countries surveyed.”Why the backlash against Obama?

 

In Cairo, Obama promised a relationship with the Muslim world built on “mutual interest and mutual respect.” He avoided any strong calls for the democratic movements that would sweep the region two years later, leaving dissidents feeling like they were standing alone. “What touched on democracy and human rights in the speech was far less than we wanted,” said Ayman Nour, a prominent Egyptian political prisoner, after the remarks.

Obama then missed a series of opportunities to be on the right side of history. First, in real time, he didn’t lend support for democratic dissidents in Iran in 2009, where today’s nuclear endgame might be quite different if he did so. His policy of non-interference left Tehran’s leadership empowered to torture and imprison leaders of the Green movement and closer than ever to obtaining a nuclear weapon. Obama was behind the eight ball on Egypt, largely silent on the Saudi crackdown on Bahrain, and appears at a loss about who to back in Syria.

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Choice:

Support dictator that plays along with USA and is increasingly hated by the local population, who view their local dipshit El Presidente as an extension of the USA

 

OR

 

Support radical underground that wants to revert back to some kind of Sharia state and is not likely to play nice with the USA.

 

I see no real good options there, but at least the Muslim Brotherhood can't say we had our boots on their necks this time.

 

3 - Stay the fuck out of it. The results may have been the same without our involvement.

 

The brotherhood can say we helped pave the way for their ascension to power.

 

We'll see what happens in the coming months. Personally, if the Egyptians want an Islamic state, that's their own business, as long as they keep to themselves.

 

Probably not much sleep tonight in Tel Aviv.

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Tip of the hat to Obama for not interfering with a relatively painless transition of power one that led to justice for horrible dictator propped up by the US per the orders of Israel

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Tip of the hat to Obama for not interfering with a relatively painless transition of power one that led to justice for horrible dictator propped up by the US per the orders of Israel

 

Obama openly calling for regime change and backing it up by tossing tons of ordnance into Egypt is not interfering?

 

Time will tell, BG. If Egypt institutes Sharia law, I wonder how many tips of the hat our Nobel Peace Prize Laureate-in-Chief will get for helping bring that about?

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ODS

He took exactly the wrong action here.

 

+1

 

And I'll toss McCain under the bus for his stance on the situation.

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Tip of the hat to Obama for not interfering with a relatively painless transition of power one that led to justice for horrible dictator propped up by the US per the orders of Israel

 

Obama openly calling for regime change and backing it up by tossing tons of ordnance into Egypt is not interfering?

 

Time will tell, BG. If Egypt institutes Sharia law, I wonder how many tips of the hat our Nobel Peace Prize Laureate-in-Chief will get for helping bring that about?

 

 

He only did so when it was crystal clear that Mubarak would not survive.

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Obama openly calling for regime change and backing it up by tossing tons of ordnance into Egypt is not interfering?

 

Time will tell, BG. If Egypt institutes Sharia law, I wonder how many tips of the hat our Nobel Peace Prize Laureate-in-Chief will get for helping bring that about?

 

What are you talking about, exactly, in the bolded bit?

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Obama openly calling for regime change and backing it up by tossing tons of ordnance into Egypt is not interfering?

 

Time will tell, BG. If Egypt institutes Sharia law, I wonder how many tips of the hat our Nobel Peace Prize Laureate-in-Chief will get for helping bring that about?

 

What are you talking about, exactly, in the bolded bit?

 

My bad. I got Libya and Egypt confused. Libya is where our Nobel Peace Prize Laureate-in-Chief dropped tons of ordnance.

 

I still stand by the rest of the statement.

 

Tip of the hat to Obama for not interfering with a relatively painless transition of power one that led to justice for horrible dictator propped up by the US per the orders of Israel

 

Obama openly calling for regime change and backing it up by tossing tons of ordnance into Egypt is not interfering?

 

Time will tell, BG. If Egypt institutes Sharia law, I wonder how many tips of the hat our Nobel Peace Prize Laureate-in-Chief will get for helping bring that about?

 

 

He only did so when it was crystal clear that Mubarak would not survive.

 

So his support for Mubarak's overthrow was simply political posturing? Well, that's reassuring.

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What position or action should Obama take wrt this situation?

 

He shouldn't have taken sides in the first place. Now? I think he should make it absolutely clear to the new president that if Egypt starts leaning towards radical Islam or starts fucking with Israel, all US aid stops and that, especially where fucking with Israel is concerned, we will not allow aggression.

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I can't see Egypt moving too far from secularism, they've made a lot of money putting religion to the side and I suspect there are way too many middle class Egyptians to let things spin out of control as it did in Iran.

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What position or action should Obama take wrt this situation?

 

He shouldn't have taken sides in the first place. Now? I think he should make it absolutely clear to the new president that if Egypt starts leaning towards radical Islam or starts fucking with Israel, all US aid stops and that, especially where fucking with Israel is concerned, we will not allow aggression.

 

Israel and Egypt buy a metric buttload of stuff from each other, they have little to gain by getting in squabbles, they're allies against radicalization. The MB will make waves at first but eventually it will be simplest for them to just take their parliamentary input and regulate on religion in much the same way add it is done in Israel.

 

But neither Israel nor Egypt have much inclination of going secular like Turkey.

 

http://m.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2011/0210/Israel-Egypt-trade-links-may-help-limit-any-rupture-in-ties

 

Anyway, thanks fir the well wishes, glad to hear yours, are doing well, taking kids tubing siren some spring melt today.

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What position or action should Obama take wrt this situation?

 

He shouldn't have taken sides in the first place. Now? I think he should make it absolutely clear to the new president that if Egypt starts leaning towards radical Islam or starts fucking with Israel, all US aid stops and that, especially where fucking with Israel is concerned, we will not allow aggression.

 

Israel and Egypt buy a metric buttload of stuff from each other, they have little to gain by getting in squabbles, they're allies against radicalization. The MB will make waves at first but eventually it will be simplest for them to just take their parliamentary input and regulate on religion in much the same way add it is done in Israel.

 

But neither Israel nor Egypt have much inclination of going secular like Turkey.

 

They were allies against radicalization. Time will tell.

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I can't see Egypt moving too far from secularism, they've made a lot of money putting religion to the side and I suspect there are way too many middle class Egyptians to let things spin out of control as it did in Iran.

 

Iran had a much bigger "middle class" than Egypt, Mike. The difference is not the size, but who controls and is beholden to the military. Most of what we would typically call an Egyptian "middle class" is related to a military run business of some type or another.

 

I see a Paki-style government developing as the slightly most likely scenario. Constant tension between a military which really runs the country and various civilian governments they will, and must, partially manage and partially endure.

 

The dice are rolling.

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Hey, we elected GW - they elected an Islamist. Both of them listen to a higher father.

wink.gif

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Hey, we elected GW - they elected an Islamist. Both of them listen to a higher father.

wink.gif

 

so like where were you indoctrinated? Brown? Columbia? Somewhere in the Northeast certainly... possibly Berzerkely?

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What position or action should Obama take wrt this situation?

 

He shouldn't have taken sides in the first place. Now? I think he should make it absolutely clear to the new president that if Egypt starts leaning towards radical Islam or starts fucking with Israel, all US aid stops and that, especially where fucking with Israel is concerned, we will not allow aggression.

 

 

Why should we care if they fuck with the zionists. Hey aren't you really regatta wolf?

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Hey, we elected GW - they elected an Islamist. Both of them listen to a higher father.

wink.gif

 

so like where were you indoctrinated? Brown? Columbia? Somewhere in the Northeast certainly... possibly Berzerkely?

 

Never set foot in one of those types of institutions other than to teach night adult school.....

I'm not much for fancy education stuff - more of a trades guy. Worked in dad's factory, as a carpenter, in demolition, rigging, energy, sheet metal and castings and now mostly web and programming.

 

Absolutely no influences from any liberal professors.

 

And you?

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... possibly Berzerkely?

 

I used my hard earned, sweated for $$$ to send my daughter to Boalt Hall....a top 10 law school if I'm not wrong (better be, after what I paid).

 

That's bizerkely graduate if you didn't know. She was accepted to Duke and many others, but she visited and saw the women wearing long skirts like in the days of old...and figured that was not the place for her. Bizerkly became her new home....

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... possibly Berzerkely?

 

I used my hard earned, sweated for $$$ to send my daughter to Boalt Hall....a top 10 law school if I'm not wrong (better be, after what I paid).

 

That's bizerkely graduate if you didn't know. She was accepted to Duke and many others, but she visited and saw the women wearing long skirts like in the days of old...and figured that was not the place for her. Bizerkly became her new home....

Lord, we don't need another lawyer,

There are lawyers and courtrooms enough to slime

Enough to last till the end of time.

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may democracy reign supreme!!!!!!

 

They are gonna have to learn their own lessons. If history is any guide, in 150 years they may be doing great and we'll still be Bible Thumping, arming up and declaring our health care system the best in the world.......that is, people who live in glass houses should not be hurling stones!

 

After the last decade here it's hard to know when we will get "progression" back on track....although the gay thing (more rights) is heartening. It might just be that, despite the rhetoric, we are still advancing. Sometimes you can only see that in the rear view mirror.

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Never set foot in one of those types of institutions other than to teach night adult school.....

I'm not much for fancy education stuff - more of a trades guy. Worked in dad's factory, as a carpenter, in demolition, rigging, energy, sheet metal and castings and now mostly web and programming.

 

we'd get along just fine.

 

may democracy reign supreme!!!!!!

 

be careful what you wish for.

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Lord, we don't need another lawyer,

There are lawyers and courtrooms enough to slime

Enough to last till the end of time.

 

Yeah, but she is an engineer also........and her speciality is cleaning up your water and air.

 

Believe me. You need her. Or at least the kids do.......cool.gif

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The best of breed entrepreneurs are liberal

 

Thanks for that. Funny!

 

I will admit that when it comes to Real Estate developers, conservatives usually shine!

 

But, true, when it comes to stuff like Apple, Biotech and most Silicon Valley stuff - you are dealing with "liberal" education. Not even close.You just won't find as much innovation coming out of College Station or (sorry, Bull) Gainesville!

 

Heck, even Romney is a liberal entrepreneur (Boston NE Liberal) smile.gif

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Lord, we don't need another lawyer,

There are lawyers and courtrooms enough to slime

Enough to last till the end of time.

 

Yeah, but she is an engineer also........and her speciality is cleaning up your water and air.

 

Believe me. You need her. Or at least the kids do.......cool.gif

 

She single?

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I can't see Egypt moving too far from secularism, they've made a lot of money putting religion to the side and I suspect there are way too many middle class Egyptians to let things spin out of control as it did in Iran.

 

Dopey idiots from the USA think democracy works with Islam, the Palestinians voted in Hamas when given the chance to vote and the Egyptians voted in a fundamentalist,its just like 1979 all over again with the leftards paving the way for Islamic rule.

 

 

Is his the guy they voted in Mike,why does he want to make Jerusalem the capital of Egypt and what is this nonsense about a million martyrs marching towards Israel?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI3wG3loKlA

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may democracy reign supreme!!!!!!

 

be careful what you wish for.

 

 

but its their choice and no good force on earth should remove that from the people.

 

isn't democracy the ultimate choice?

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She single?

 

Is, but high standards.......enjoys not having to "serve"....cool.gif

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Dopey idiots from the USA think democracy works with Islam, the Palestinians voted in Hamas when given the chance to vote and the Egyptians voted in a fundamentalist,its just like 1979 all over again with the leftards paving the way for Islamic rule.

 

 

I can't speak to how well it works with Islam - I know it works to some degree in Turkey....

 

But I am 100% sure that Christian Fundamentalism, even in it's weak GW form, does not work here. We learned that lesson the hard way!

 

As GW himself said "it would be easier if we were a dictatorship".

 

No, democracy is not the ultimate choice - because, as many Americans claims, even we vote in the guy who gives us free stuff. The "ultimate" starts with total respect for human rights - then extends to the environment, then to principles of non-violence, then to the sharing of certain "commons" in a state or country, etc. etc....

 

The whole voting thing is perhaps just the start, not the end. As we see now, that's all subject to who programs the machines or who writes the laws and purges the voter list - and, if we get stuck, we can always ask the "conservative" SCOTUS to appoint a President!

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I can't see Egypt moving too far from secularism, they've made a lot of money putting religion to the side and I suspect there are way too many middle class Egyptians to let things spin out of control as it did in Iran.

 

Dopey idiots from the USA think democracy works with Islam, the Palestinians voted in Hamas when given the chance to vote and the Egyptians voted in a fundamentalist,its just like 1979 all over again with the leftards paving the way for Islamic rule.

 

 

Is his the guy they voted in Mike,why does he want to make Jerusalem the capital of Egypt and what is this nonsense about a million martyrs marching towards Israel?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI3wG3loKlA

Israel has to be watching this with alarm. Instead of millions of martyrs who are Hamas. They will be looking at millions of martyrs turned to glass

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I can't see Egypt moving too far from secularism, they've made a lot of money putting religion to the side and I suspect there are way too many middle class Egyptians to let things spin out of control as it did in Iran.

 

Dopey idiots from the USA think democracy works with Islam, the Palestinians voted in Hamas when given the chance to vote and the Egyptians voted in a fundamentalist,its just like 1979 all over again with the leftards paving the way for Islamic rule.

 

 

Is his the guy they voted in Mike,why does he want to make Jerusalem the capital of Egypt and what is this nonsense about a million martyrs marching towards Israel?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI3wG3loKlA

Israel has to be watching this with alarm. Instead of millions of martyrs who are Hamas. They will be looking at millions of martyrs turned to glass

 

 

Well hopefully one of the Arab states will acquire nuclear capability and nuke Israel in the exchange. Even if israel did nuke an Arab state without a reasonable retaliation, they would be finished as a nation state. I don't think they've got more than 25 years anyway if they continue on this path

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I can't see Egypt moving too far from secularism, they've made a lot of money putting religion to the side and I suspect there are way too many middle class Egyptians to let things spin out of control as it did in Iran.

 

Dopey idiots from the USA think democracy works with Islam, the Palestinians voted in Hamas when given the chance to vote and the Egyptians voted in a fundamentalist,its just like 1979 all over again with the leftards paving the way for Islamic rule.

 

 

Is his the guy they voted in Mike,why does he want to make Jerusalem the capital of Egypt and what is this nonsense about a million martyrs marching towards Israel?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI3wG3loKlA

Israel has to be watching this with alarm. Instead of millions of martyrs who are Hamas. They will be looking at millions of martyrs turned to glass

 

 

 

Well hopefully one of the Arab states will acquire nuclear capability and nuke Israel in the exchange. Even if irael did nuke an Arab state without a reasonable retaliation. They would be finished as a nation state. I don't think they,Ve got more than 25 years anyway if they continue on this path

So they should simply sit back and be invaded? What a strange point of view.

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I many ways I don't name them. They are doing what they think they need to do to survive even if it is perverse and evil. The state is an artifice that should never have been created. Israel will be gone soon and it will be a horrible tragedy all around

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Israel will be gone?

 

Maybe the jews might all move to florida?

 

Seriously, israel will never be gone. Americans will die fighting to protect it.

Well, some americans. Others will keep the american dream alive by driving around in campaign buses..............

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I can't see Egypt moving too far from secularism, they've made a lot of money putting religion to the side and I suspect there are way too many middle class Egyptians to let things spin out of control as it did in Iran.

 

Dopey idiots from the USA think democracy works with Islam, the Palestinians voted in Hamas when given the chance to vote and the Egyptians voted in a fundamentalist,its just like 1979 all over again with the leftards paving the way for Islamic rule.

 

 

Is his the guy they voted in Mike,why does he want to make Jerusalem the capital of Egypt and what is this nonsense about a million martyrs marching towards Israel?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI3wG3loKlA

Israel has to be watching this with alarm. Instead of millions of martyrs who are Hamas. They will be looking at millions of martyrs turned to glass

 

Mohamed Morsi the new President of Egypt, has an engineering PhD from USC, taught at Cal State Northridge for three years, and all of his children were born in the United States. What a radical.

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leave teh facts oput of this. The discussion is about hating Obama.and whatever he does is always wrong.

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I can't see Egypt moving too far from secularism, they've made a lot of money putting religion to the side and I suspect there are way too many middle class Egyptians to let things spin out of control as it did in Iran.

 

Dopey idiots from the USA think democracy works with Islam, the Palestinians voted in Hamas when given the chance to vote and the Egyptians voted in a fundamentalist,its just like 1979 all over again with the leftards paving the way for Islamic rule.

 

 

Is his the guy they voted in Mike,why does he want to make Jerusalem the capital of Egypt and what is this nonsense about a million martyrs marching towards Israel?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI3wG3loKlA

Israel has to be watching this with alarm. Instead of millions of martyrs who are Hamas. They will be looking at millions of martyrs turned to glass

 

Mohamed Morsi the new President of Egypt, has an engineering PhD from USC, taught at Cal State Northridge for three years, and all of his children were born in the United States. What a radical.

Oh shit He lived and taught in the land of far left liberalism. Now I'm really scared :lol: What that tells me is he has no concept of what the majority of America is like. Expect him to test us early and often

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Mohamed Morsi the new President of Egypt, has an engineering PhD from USC, taught at Cal State Northridge for three years, and all of his children were born in the United States. What a radical.

Oh shit He lived and taught in the land of far left liberalism. Now I'm really scared :lol: What that tells me is he has no concept of what the majority of America is like. Expect him to test us early and often

Kewl. That makes him kinda like Anwar Al-Awlaki. We can just send in a drone and kill him if he says bad things about us.

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Expect him to test us early and often

 

You really look at them as our enemy???

 

Test us? Wow. I hope you sign your kin up to wage the war.

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Freedom is good, as long as they do what we want them to do.

 

Even then, if they are Islamists, you can't trust them!

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Expect him to test us early and often

 

You really look at them as our enemy???

 

Test us? Wow. I hope you sign your kin up to wage the war.

You must have quoted my post by mistake, nothing in there at all about considering them an enemy or going to war. Talk about wearing a tin foil hat - what are you so afraid of?

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You must have quoted my post by mistake, nothing in there at all about considering them an enemy or going to war. Talk about wearing a tin foil hat - what are you so afraid of?

 

Testing us can be code!

 

Testing where our "line in the sand" is? Please give some examples of how Egypt would test us?

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You must have quoted my post by mistake, nothing in there at all about considering them an enemy or going to war. Talk about wearing a tin foil hat - what are you so afraid of?

 

Testing us can be code!

 

Testing where our "line in the sand" is? Please give some examples of how Egypt would test us?

Currently US naval vessels move to the front of the line whe transiting the Suez A test might be to stop that practice

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You must have quoted my post by mistake, nothing in there at all about considering them an enemy or going to war. Talk about wearing a tin foil hat - what are you so afraid of?

 

Testing us can be code!

 

Testing where our "line in the sand" is? Please give some examples of how Egypt would test us?

 

I'll take "Obama is bad" for $100, Alex.

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I'll take "Obama is bad" for $100, Alex.

 

No brainer - he gave a speech of hope to Islamists.

 

The Obama is bad odds are very poor at this moment - you don't stand to gain much.

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They might be so full of themselves they refuse to cash our checks.

 

Bastards!

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Expect him to test us early and often

 

But is he clean and articulate?

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I'll take "Obama is bad" for $100, Alex.

 

No brainer - he gave a speech of hope to Islamists.

 

The Obama is bad odds are very poor at this moment - you don't stand to gain much.

head_in_sand.jpg

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head_in_sand.jpg

 

Are they Egyptians guarding at the Suez? Yeah, you are right - we need to test them before they pee upside down to stop the ships.

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The Egyptian developments are fascinating. Democracy meets ignorance upon oil-rich sands. As tiny (but muscular) Israel watches.

Really, the plot is in fast motion, cheap Tom Clancy.

But Islam is about to come to terms with the world at large, IMHO.

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head_in_sand.jpg

 

Are they Egyptians guarding at the Suez? Yeah, you are right - we need to test them before they pee upside down to stop the ships.

I suggest you look in the mirror because it represents the naive left singing kumbaya upside down. Just like the efforts to portray the election of the Muslim brotherhood candidate as a positive development in Egypt - it just sounds strained

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I suggest you look in the mirror because it represents the naive left singing kumbaya upside down. Just like the efforts to portray the election of the Muslim brotherhood candidate as a positive development in Egypt - it just sounds strained

 

It is neither positive or negative.

It may be the start of something which will result in a better life for them...or, it may put them right back into a dictatorship supported by us and others.

 

The problem with righties is that you think history turns on your news cycle and attention span. It does not.

 

I make absolutely no judgement other than it is good, in the long run, for them to progress economically and in terms of human rights.

 

Do you disagree with that?

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I suggest you look in the mirror because it represents the naive left singing kumbaya upside down. Just like the efforts to portray the election of the Muslim brotherhood candidate as a positive development in Egypt - it just sounds strained

 

It is neither positive or negative.

It may be the start of something which will result in a better life for them...or, it may put them right back into a dictatorship supported by us and others.

 

The problem with righties is that you think history turns on your news cycle and attention span. It does not.

 

I make absolutely no judgement other than it is good, in the long run, for them to progress economically and in terms of human rights.

 

Do you disagree with that?

In this country you have decried the influence of Fundamental Christians, yet you are all for a religious theocracy taking over in Egypt. You accuse righties of wanting war yet ignore the video links on this thread that have leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood essentially declaring war on against a neighboring country.

 

The double standard runs strong in the left.

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In this country you have decried the influence of Fundamental Christians, yet you are all for a religious theocracy taking over in Egypt. You accuse righties of wanting war yet ignore the video links on this thread that have leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood essentially declaring war on against a neighboring country.

 

The double standard runs strong in the left.

 

It must be nice making up your own stories and then ranting against them!

 

After all, someone somewhere out of the 100 MILLION on the center and left must think as you say.......

 

Let me repeat so maybe you hear this time. They have to learn their own lessons. If this guy has women whipped, I think he and Egypt will pay dearly for it.

 

Yes, it's a fact based on polling - righties are more for war (flexing muscle all over the world). It is a crime to state the obvious? Oh, and both Christian Fundamentalists AND Islamists would be classified as RIGHTIES. I suppose that logic escapes you????

 

The guy will be measured by his actions and results...if he ever gets that way, given that their military is probably in charge. And, yes, Military Rule in this case would also be considered as right wing....although there are some exceptions throughout history.

 

Heck, we were almost 100 years in when we slaughtered our brothers and burned cities in the civil war. Judge not, my friend.....

 

Israel and they have a LONG history of killing each other. Surely you don't expect that to go away in an instant by singing Kumbaya? As another poster mentioned, most Egyptians are illiterate....people like that need ginned up over some imaginary threat.....you know, just like the illiterate here have been by the ant-Muslim fever drummed up by some rightie billionaires.

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I suggest you look in the mirror because it represents the naive left singing kumbaya upside down. Just like the efforts to portray the election of the Muslim brotherhood candidate as a positive development in Egypt - it just sounds strained

 

It is neither positive or negative.

It may be the start of something which will result in a better life for them...or, it may put them right back into a dictatorship supported by us and others.

 

The problem with righties is that you think history turns on your news cycle and attention span. It does not.

 

I make absolutely no judgement other than it is good, in the long run, for them to progress economically and in terms of human rights.

 

Do you disagree with that?

In this country you have decried the influence of Fundamental Christians, yet you are all for a religious theocracy taking over in Egypt. You accuse righties of wanting war yet ignore the video links on this thread that have leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood essentially declaring war on against a neighboring country.

 

The double standard runs strong in the left.

 

I'll count myself as "left", and I believe that democracy is a power tool, and that ignorant savages should not be allowed to operate power tools. I've been saying for some time, about the Arab Spring and "Democracy sweeping the Arab world," "be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

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I suggest you look in the mirror because it represents the naive left singing kumbaya upside down. Just like the efforts to portray the election of the Muslim brotherhood candidate as a positive development in Egypt - it just sounds strained

 

It is neither positive or negative.

It may be the start of something which will result in a better life for them...or, it may put them right back into a dictatorship supported by us and others.

 

The problem with righties is that you think history turns on your news cycle and attention span. It does not.

 

I make absolutely no judgement other than it is good, in the long run, for them to progress economically and in terms of human rights.

 

Do you disagree with that?

In this country you have decried the influence of Fundamental Christians, yet you are all for a religious theocracy taking over in Egypt. You accuse righties of wanting war yet ignore the video links on this thread that have leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood essentially declaring war on against a neighboring country.

 

The double standard runs strong in the left.

 

I'll count myself as "left", and I believe that democracy is a power tool, and that ignorant savages should not be allowed to operate power tools. I've been saying for some time, about the Arab Spring and "Democracy sweeping the Arab world," "be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

I agree with that sentiment, I hope for the best in Egypt, but am not going to pretend that this is a positive development for the rest of the world. Moving a country back to the 12th century just seems worse in the long run than the dictatorship that was replaced. I suggest anyone that doubts the power religion has in that part of the world look at the society that was in Iran prior to the fall of the Shah.

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Remember, freedom/democracy is so important that it is alright to deficit-spend in order to provide it to other countries...like Iraq.

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I suggest you look in the mirror because it represents the naive left singing kumbaya upside down. Just like the efforts to portray the election of the Muslim brotherhood candidate as a positive development in Egypt - it just sounds strained

 

It is neither positive or negative.

It may be the start of something which will result in a better life for them...or, it may put them right back into a dictatorship supported by us and others.

 

The problem with righties is that you think history turns on your news cycle and attention span. It does not.

 

I make absolutely no judgement other than it is good, in the long run, for them to progress economically and in terms of human rights.

 

Do you disagree with that?

In this country you have decried the influence of Fundamental Christians, yet you are all for a religious theocracy taking over in Egypt. You accuse righties of wanting war yet ignore the video links on this thread that have leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood essentially declaring war on against a neighboring country.

 

The double standard runs strong in the left.

 

I'll count myself as "left", and I believe that democracy is a power tool, and that ignorant savages should not be allowed to operate power tools. I've been saying for some time, about the Arab Spring and "Democracy sweeping the Arab world," "be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

I agree with that sentiment, I hope for the best in Egypt, but am not going to pretend that this is a positive development for the rest of the world. Moving a country back to the 12th century just seems worse in the long run than the dictatorship that was replaced. I suggest anyone that doubts the power religion has in that part of the world look at the society that was in Iran prior to the fall of the Shah.

 

Theocracy rocks.

They are being dragged into the present century.

We weren't careful what we wished for, and encouraged democracy upon the area, with guns.

Primitive theocracy concepts now must grapple with an economy-driven world society.

It will be good in the long-term, but messy for a while.

 

And sooner or later the Islamists must discredit (or modify) the nasty scriptural basis of their behavior.

After the train wreck it will get better, Virginia.

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Just imagine if... The Muslim Brotherhood didn't have such a scary name.

This thread might never have been started.

 

Just imagine if the headline read "US educated Phd with US born children wins Egypt election"

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Just imagine if... The Muslim Brotherhood didn't have such a scary name.

This thread might never have been started.

 

Just imagine if the headline read "US educated Phd with US born children wins Egypt election"

Yeah, if you leave out the militant radical stuff it’s not at all alarming.

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Just imagine if... The Muslim Brotherhood didn't have such a scary name.

This thread might never have been started.

 

Just imagine if the headline read "US educated Phd with US born children wins Egypt election"

Yeah, if you leave out the militant radical stuff it’s not at all alarming.

We will just have to wait and see if the tough talk turns into actions.

But don't worry, there's plenty of time to bomb them and install a new "president"

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Just imagine if... The Muslim Brotherhood didn't have such a scary name.

This thread might never have been started.

 

Just imagine if the headline read "US educated Phd with US born children wins Egypt election"

Yeah, if you leave out the militant radical stuff it’s not at all alarming.

We will just have to wait and see if the tough talk turns into actions.

But don't worry, there's plenty of time to bomb them and install a new "president"

At some point, if they can't make the proper electoral choices, we are going to need to take matters into our own hands and give those poor people their freedom.

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At some point, if they can't make the proper electoral choices, we are going to need to take matters into our own hands and give those poor people their freedom.

 

As with the communists in Vietnam, sometime you have to destroy a village to save it....

 

That said, I'd like to go visit Saigon Ho Chi Minh City.

 

This thread is too darn long, but I wonder if the usual cast of characters ever found out that Fox misled them once again!

"Fox News has been on a bit of tear in seeking to make Morsi out to be a major threat to world peace. Yesterday, their website carried a video that purported to be Morsi delivering a fiery anti-Israeli speech, but was in fact delivered by another man. The misleading video remains uncorrected today on the Fox website. "

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels/2012/0625/The-political-circus-and-spin-after-Muslim-Brotherhood-s-Egypt-presidential-win

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And sooner or later the Islamists must discredit (or modify) the nasty scriptural basis of their behavior.

 

 

Allah sent Mohammad as a new prophet because the belief was corrupted by humans and Mo had to set it right, that is what muslims believe,Mohammed was the final prophet from god.

 

The Quran says Islam has been perfected so why would muslims want to discredit or modify any part of a perfect religion would that be considered blasphemy,do they chop your head off for blasphemy?

http://quran.com/5/3

 

Muslims are not allowed to pick and choose which parts of Islam to believe in this is where Islam differs from christianity,the uran is clear its off to the hellfire for those hypocrites who think they can pick and choose.

http://quran.com/2/85

Read all quran translation to dispel myth of mistranslation.

 

As we saw in Pakistan it is considered blasphemy to oppose the blasphemy laws in Islam.

 

How can muslims modify the nasty bits in Islam when it would be considered blasphemy to even suggest it?

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Just imagine if... The Muslim Brotherhood didn't have such a scary name.

This thread might never have been started.

 

Just imagine if the headline read "US educated Phd with US born children wins Egypt election"

Just imagine that the celebrating crowd thought that was significant and weren't calling for Sharia law.

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Remember, freedom/democracy is so important that it is alright to deficit-spend in order to provide it to other countries...like Iraq.

C'mon, Sol - we all know Iraq was different...

 

As always, the operative word is "sometimes"...

 

ABOARD THE USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN (CNN) -- The following is an unedited transcript of President Bush's historic speech from the flight deck of the USS Lincoln, during which he declared an end to major combat in Iraq:

 

 

 

Today we have the greater power to free a nation by breaking a dangerous and aggressive regime.

...

In the images of celebrating Iraqis we have also seen the ageless appeal of human freedom. Decades of lies and intimidation could not make the Iraqi people love their oppressors or desire their own enslavement.

 

Men and women in every culture need liberty like they need food and water and air. Everywhere that freedom arrives, humanity rejoices and everywhere that freedom stirs, let tyrants fear.

...

And we will stand with the new leaders of Iraq as they establish a government of, by and for the Iraqi people.

 

The transition from dictatorship to democracy will take time, but it is worth every effort.

...

Our commitment to liberty is America's tradition, declared at our founding, affirmed in Franklin Roosevelt's Four Freedoms, asserted in the Truman Doctrine and in Ronald Reagan's challenge to an evil empire.

 

We are committed to freedom in Afghanistan, Iraq and in a peaceful Palestine.

 

The advance of freedom is the surest strategy to undermine the appeal of terror in the world. Where freedom takes hold, hatred gives way to hope.

 

When freedom takes hold, men and women turn to the peaceful pursuit of a better life.

 

American values and American interests lead in the same direction. We stand for human liberty...

 

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At some point, if they can't make the proper electoral choices, we are going to need to take matters into our own hands and give those poor people their freedom.

 

As with the communists in Vietnam, sometime you have to destroy a village to save it....

 

That said, I'd like to go visit Saigon Ho Chi Minh City.

 

This thread is too darn long, but I wonder if the usual cast of characters ever found out that Fox misled them once again!

"Fox News has been on a bit of tear in seeking to make Morsi out to be a major threat to world peace. Yesterday, their website carried a video that purported to be Morsi delivering a fiery anti-Israeli speech, but was in fact delivered by another man. The misleading video remains uncorrected today on the Fox website. "

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels/2012/0625/The-political-circus-and-spin-after-Muslim-Brotherhood-s-Egypt-presidential-win

I watched both clips it is perfectly clear that the guy talking is NOT the newly elected president in fact he is introduced because he was sitting on the stage .

 

From your link: "Rabbilive.com introduces... Egypt's newly elected president as declared by the Muslim Brotherhood, Mohamed Morsi, Israel's new neighbor."

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How can muslims modify the nasty bits in Islam when it would be considered blasphemy to even suggest it?

 

Maybe the same way we attempt to do it here despite a large and powerful set of Senators, Govs and Congress critters declaring that Jesus didn't like Democracy and that Christians should not either????

 

(The C street family)

 

Please, Bin Lying, look up the fellas associated with this group and then tell me we don't have such Fundamentalists in the CORE of our government.

 

"They were striving, ultimately, for what Coe calls ‘Jesus plus nothing’ — a government led by Christ’s will alone. In the future envisioned by Coe, everything — sex and taxes, war and the price of oil — will be decided upon not according to democracy or the church or even Scripture. The Bible itself is for the masses; in the Fellowship, Christ reveals a higher set of commands to the anointed few. It’s a good old boy’s club blessed by God. Brownback even lived with other cell members in a million-dollar, red-brick former convent at 133 C Street that was subsidized and operated by the Fellowship. Monthly rent was $600 per man — enough of a deal by Hill standards that some said it bordered on an ethical violation, but no charges were ever brought.Brownback and Ensign also lived with Fellowship brother Sen. Tom Coburn, an Oklahoma doctor who has advocated the death penalty for abortion providers. The men in Brownback’s cell talk about politics, but the senator insists it’s not political. ‘It’s about faith and action,’ he says. "

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Remember, freedom/democracy is so important that it is alright to deficit-spend in order to provide it to other countries...like Iraq.

 

The only place that the government can create jobs is in another country. They do it here and it's socialism. We want the government to create jobs, right?

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Just imagine if... The Muslim Brotherhood didn't have such a scary name.

This thread might never have been started.

 

Just imagine if the headline read "US educated Phd with US born children wins Egypt election"

Yeah, if you leave out the militant radical stuff it's not at all alarming.

We will just have to wait and see if the tough talk turns into actions.

But don't worry, there's plenty of time to bomb them and install a new "president"

At some point, if they can't make the proper electoral choices, we are going to need to take matters into our own hands and give those poor people their freedom.

 

americans have rights sol. the right to choose is the most basic right there is. and it will be applied everywhere.

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I spoke with a guy who works for me today. He just came back from Cairo after the Mogamma abruptly expired his visa. He' spent a lot of time in Egypt.

He said the military and middle/upper class (kinda one and the same) are not happy about the Brotherhood winning the election, and they'll never be able to stay in power.

 

He said the military is like 1/3 of Egypt's economy, and they subsidize the hell out of stuff like food.

He said that since the Brotherhood won, prices have magically spiked 300% for everyday items and people are pissed.

The military is just sitting back and saying, "Yeah, you see your new government doesn't know how to run things right".

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And sooner or later the Islamists must discredit (or modify) the nasty scriptural basis of their behavior.

 

 

Allah sent Mohammad as a new prophet because the belief was corrupted by humans and Mo had to set it right, that is what muslims believe,Mohammed was the final prophet from god.

 

The Quran says Islam has been perfected so why would muslims want to discredit or modify any part of a perfect religion would that be considered blasphemy,do they chop your head off for blasphemy?

http://quran.com/5/3

 

Muslims are not allowed to pick and choose which parts of Islam to believe in this is where Islam differs from christianity,the uran is clear its off to the hellfire for those hypocrites who think they can pick and choose.

http://quran.com/2/85

Read all quran translation to dispel myth of mistranslation.

 

As we saw in Pakistan it is considered blasphemy to oppose the blasphemy laws in Islam.

 

How can muslims modify the nasty bits in Islam when it would be considered blasphemy to even suggest it?

 

It is considered blasphemy for an infidel to draw a pic of Mohammed, too.

All beliefs you have pointed out are challenged by common sense.

Ask all the Catholics who went to hell in the fifties for eating meat on Friday.

 

Like I said, this is going to get interesting.

Mormons once thought the heavens had ordained their theocracy in Utah. http://1857massacre.com/

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Just imagine if... The Muslim Brotherhood didn't have such a scary name.

This thread might never have been started.

 

Just imagine if the headline read "US educated Phd with US born children wins Egypt election"

 

It's not the scary name, it's that

The Brotherhood's stated goal is to instill the Qur'an and Sunnah as the "sole reference point for ...ordering the life of the Muslim family, individual, community ... and state".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

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Just imagine if... The Muslim Brotherhood didn't have such a scary name.

This thread might never have been started.

 

Just imagine if the headline read "US educated Phd with US born children wins Egypt election"

 

It's not the scary name, it's that

The Brotherhood's stated goal is to instill the Qur'an and Sunnah as the "sole reference point for ...ordering the life of the Muslim family, individual, community ... and state".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

 

Democracy. What are we supposed to do?

 

But you have to admit, without the scary name, it would get much less attention in the US.

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Just imagine if... The Muslim Brotherhood didn't have such a scary name.

This thread might never have been started.

 

Just imagine if the headline read "US educated Phd with US born children wins Egypt election"

 

It's not the scary name, it's that

The Brotherhood's stated goal is to instill the Qur'an and Sunnah as the "sole reference point for ...ordering the life of the Muslim family, individual, community ... and state".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

 

Democracy. What are we supposed to do?

 

But you have to admit, without the scary name, it would get much less attention in the US.

No! I see nothing inherently "scary" about their name.

 

It is their stated goals, ties to terrorist organizations and other radical islamic groups that raised the red flag for me.

 

Did you even bother watching the clips on this thread?

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I love how the quote leaves out the part immediately after:

 

"The movement officially opposes violent means to achieve its goals"

This part really got my fear response going:

"teaching the illiterate, setting up hospitals and even launching commercial enterprises. As it continued to rise in influence, starting in 1936, it began to oppose British rule in Egypt"

The part simply freaks me out!

"Its leaders are untainted by the prevalent corruption, and admired for their commitment to social work"

Yep, definitely dangerous to the USA and Israel.

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So where do the millions of martyrs marching on Jerusalim get their orders? Same for Hamas. Which they are tied to and which is still a terrorist group.

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I love how the quote leaves out the part immediately after:

 

"The movement officially opposes violent means to achieve its goals"

This part really got my fear response going:

"teaching the illiterate, setting up hospitals and even launching commercial enterprises. As it continued to rise in influence, starting in 1936, it began to oppose British rule in Egypt"

The part simply freaks me out!

"Its leaders are untainted by the prevalent corruption, and admired for their commitment to social work"

Yep, definitely dangerous to the USA and Israel.

 

And you, in turn, are being selective as well.

n 1997 Muslim Brotherhood Supreme Guide Mustafa Mashhur told journalist Khalid Daoud[110] that he thought Egypt's Coptic Christians and Orthodox Jews should pay the long-abandoned jizya poll tax, levied on non-Muslims in exchange for protection from the state, rationalized by the fact that non-Muslims are exempt from military service while it is compulsory for Muslims. He went on to say, "we do not mind having Christians members in the People's Assembly...the top officials, especially in the army, should be Muslims since we are a Muslim country...This is necessary because when a Christian country attacks the Muslim country and the army has Christian elements, they can facilitate our defeat by the enemy.

 

Islam as a political ideology is fundamentally in opposition to the concepts of a secular government and freedom of conscience.

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Islam as a political ideology is fundamentally in opposition to the concepts of a secular government and freedom of conscience.

 

This may be 100% true, but they are entitled to choose their own destiny....until and unless they interfere in the affairs of others. That doesn't mean one terrorist or any such thing - by that measurement, we fail horribly ourselves (we've killed a lot of innocent people spreading democracy and freedom of conscience).

 

We can't, on one hand, yell and scream about how we shouldn't get involved in every single country and government in the world...and, then, on the other hand cry when a country cannot go from 0-60 in one second.

 

As you well know, some gas in the tank and cooking fuel for the stove - and food in the belly - all come way before the concerns about whether or not they meet our standards.

 

Isn't the real question whether or not this could be a step in the right...or wrong direction? If that is the case, we'd have to measure the current and future situation against a Dictator. Were the so-called secular rights and human rights as well as quality of life all headed in the right direction under the last guy? The stats don't see to show a progressive state with happy citizens.

 

If the illiteracy rate is as high as quoted, it's a stretch to imagine them going right from a Dictator to racks of porn magazines in the bookstore.

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I spoke with a guy who works for me today. He just came back from Cairo after the Mogamma abruptly expired his visa. He' spent a lot of time in Egypt.

He said the military and middle/upper class (kinda one and the same) are not happy about the Brotherhood winning the election, and they'll never be able to stay in power.

 

He said the military is like 1/3 of Egypt's economy, and they subsidize the hell out of stuff like food.

He said that since the Brotherhood won, prices have magically spiked 300% for everyday items and people are pissed.

The military is just sitting back and saying, "Yeah, you see your new government doesn't know how to run things right".

 

 

Very true. Many people here are going to have a hard time imagining the Army being the main business people in a nation, but that's the way things are over there.

 

Zoom out, and to me it resembles that scene in Apollo 13 "Bouncing off the walls and finding ourselves right back in the same spot with the same problems." They didn't find Mubarak's supposed loot. I don't think they will, because IMO, he wasn't that kind of bastard.

 

The kind he was? The kind that sent his thugs out and "disappeared" people. There were not all that many to do in there, really, but tops on the list was always the radical Islamists. The MB was regularly pruned of anybody who started talking violence, as did Nasser and Sadat before him, a process went on for about 60 years. It was mainly resembled combination of Catholic style charities and Shriners when I was there. 20 years ago now, nearly. Man, time does fly.

 

Anyway, they still are Brand Y, and it's either support them or the same Generals that they had before. They are drawing heavily from some very liberal sub-sets, and I suspect their ability to drum up marches and cause chaos has a time limit.

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Anyway, they still are Brand Y, and it's either support them or the same Generals that they had before. They are drawing heavily from some very liberal sub-sets, and I suspect their ability to drum up marches and cause chaos has a time limit.

Those generals are still in charge.

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them going right from a Dictator to racks of porn magazines in the bookstore.

 

I kinda thought your idea of democracy was flawed, thanks for proving it, dumbass.

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