• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Presuming Ed

JV IRC 42, first boat out of Hakes's new shed in China

Recommended Posts

Anybody else think it is strange that Hakes goes bust in NZ and the facility is empty and then opens up in China with a full infrastructure the next day...

 

that's called a strategic master plan these days

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

another fuckin flush deck limp dick banana boat with reverse shear ala Farr400 whoop dee fuckin doo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear sailors,

 

You can find further information and specification on Yachtworld:

http://www.yachtworl...2540850/Germany

 

First boat will be launched in Europe in Spring !

 

BR

 

judel/vrolijk & co - brokerage

 

So, come on, please tell, who's bought her? What is she to be named? What she rate IRC? Is she going to be based on the south coast UK? Will she give the Ker 40's and 46's a run for their money?...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anybody else think it is strange that Hakes goes bust in NZ and the facility is empty and then opens up in China with a full infrastructure the next day...

Did the NZ staff and suppliers get paid?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anybody else think it is strange that Hakes goes bust in NZ and the facility is empty and then opens up in China with a full infrastructure the next day...

 

That sucks.. it seems they screwed the employees out of their redundancy payments:

 

http://www.alfalyrae.com/nautica/blognautica/news-nautica/ibi-news-hakes-marine-goes-into-liquidation-in-new-zealand-moves-operations-to-china-the-racing-sailboat-builder-lays-off-15/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, Paul Hakes is working with Hudson Marine - they provided all the super infrastructure. He didn't up and run like some above are suggesting.

 

Try problems like glbal economy, rising $NZ etc. Having met Me Hakes he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to shaft his workers. And as far as the boat being a Chinese copy? - 2 things I don't think JV would appreciate suggestions like that and secondly most of the hot 40 somethings are built in China Kerr, Botin etc

 

See ya on the water

 

SS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anybody else think it is strange that Hakes goes bust in NZ and the facility is empty and then opens up in China with a full infrastructure the next day...

 

That sucks.. it seems they screwed the employees out of their redundancy payments:

 

http://www.alfalyrae...er-lays-off-15/

Whats the betting the boss doesn't go back to Wellington for a holiday in while?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will not purchase any product that originated in the U.S. but is now manufactured in China. Just won't do it. It's hard, but I am giving it a try. This is a prime example. New Zealand company moves production to China, yet they still want to sell their product in New Zealand. That means New Zealand jobs are adios. If they want to sell their product in New Zealand then I suggest a 100% import tax on that product.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will not purchase any product that originated in the U.S. but is now manufactured in China. Just won't do it. It's hard, but I am giving it a try. This is a prime example. New Zealand company moves production to China, yet they still want to sell their product in New Zealand. That means New Zealand jobs are adios. If they want to sell their product in New Zealand then I suggest a 100% import tax on that product.

 

So you've decided to be 100% anti-globalization. What about if it weren't a bogey-man like China?

 

As for the 100% tariff, I'd imagine the WTO would have something to say about that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will not purchase any product that originated in the U.S. but is now manufactured in China. Just won't do it. It's hard, but I am giving it a try. This is a prime example. New Zealand company moves production to China, yet they still want to sell their product in New Zealand. That means New Zealand jobs are adios. If they want to sell their product in New Zealand then I suggest a 100% import tax on that product.

 

So you've decided to be 100% anti-globalization. What about if it weren't a bogey-man like China?

 

As for the 100% tariff, I'd imagine the WTO would have something to say about that.

 

Shhhhh, facts aren't welcome here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will not purchase any product that originated in the U.S. but is now manufactured in China. Just won't do it. It's hard, but I am giving it a try. This is a prime example. New Zealand company moves production to China, yet they still want to sell their product in New Zealand. That means New Zealand jobs are adios. If they want to sell their product in New Zealand then I suggest a 100% import tax on that product.

 

You're a fucking moron. If it were manufactured in the US, you would be bitching about the price tag. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"It will have limited offshore capability to ensure it's always a leading feature at such classics as The Fastnet, The Rolex Sydney to Hobart and Rolex China Sea Race."

 

That's pretty good offshore capabilities I reckon you need to be at least Cat 2 for all these races.

I guess everybody needs to have a flush decked racer now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"It will have limited offshore capability to ensure it's always a leading feature at such classics as The Fastnet, The Rolex Sydney to Hobart and Rolex China Sea Race."

 

That's pretty good offshore capabilities I reckon you need to be at least Cat 2 for all these races.

I guess everybody needs to have a flush decked racer now?

 

It's like we're going back to the golden days of IOR. On the plus side, it makes getting across on the tacks that little bit easier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"It will have limited offshore capability to ensure it's always a leading feature at such classics as The Fastnet, The Rolex Sydney to Hobart and Rolex China Sea Race."

 

That's pretty good offshore capabilities I reckon you need to be at least Cat 2 for all these races.

I guess everybody needs to have a flush decked racer now?

 

Hobart is Cat 1, I would have thought Fastnet is the at least the same, no idea about China Sea though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We took so much anti China heat when we did the FT10m project. It's interesting to see how the attitude had changed towards China builds since, in the most part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"It will have limited offshore capability to ensure it's always a leading feature at such classics as The Fastnet, The Rolex Sydney to Hobart and Rolex China Sea Race."

 

That's pretty good offshore capabilities I reckon you need to be at least Cat 2 for all these races.

I guess everybody needs to have a flush decked racer now?

Does it make any difference to sitting on the rail for 4 days?? Flush deck or not, still wet.

 

I'd be more worried about "limited offshore capability" as you posted above

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"It will have limited offshore capability to ensure it's always a leading feature at such classics as The Fastnet, The Rolex Sydney to Hobart and Rolex China Sea Race."

 

That's pretty good offshore capabilities I reckon you need to be at least Cat 2 for all these races.

I guess everybody needs to have a flush decked racer now?

 

Hobart is Cat 1, I would have thought Fastnet is the at least the same, no idea about China Sea though.

 

Fastnet is Cat 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That'll go pretty funny with the tiller hooked up that way.

 

What way?

Go back to the beginning and read/veiw posts and pictures. It helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We took so much anti China heat when we did the FT10m project. It's interesting to see how the attitude had changed towards China builds since, in the most part.

It would be fair to say the reaction depends on the yard a boat comes out of. There doesn't seem to be too many complaints about the McConaghy products out of China...

 

Mex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We took so much anti China heat when we did the FT10m project. It's interesting to see how the attitude had changed towards China builds since, in the most part.

It would be fair to say the reaction depends on the yard a boat comes out of. There doesn't seem to be too many complaints about the McConaghy products out of China...

 

Mex

Plus a solid measure of "they took our jobs" anti-globalization hysteria. Seems lifting millions of people outta poverty isn't important.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mex:

I understand totally. But we were taking heat before we even began production. Despite the fact we were working with an established yard that had a very good record for quality at the time, i.e. Passports and Outbounds. I'm not whining. I'm just saying it's interesting how the attitude has changed about China builds. When we tried it was a bad thing. When an established builder moves his production to China to an untried yard its a good thing.

 

I get it. We were nobodies from nowhere and had no place in the sportboat business. But despite not being in the "cool group" we made some boats that have made a lot of people happy. I love working in China. I like pretty much everything about it. I've worked hard at the language. I have tried to understand the culture. I've been called an "egg", i.e. white on the outside and yellow on the inside. I don't care. I like to see boats being built there. I'd way prefer to see them built here but it doesn't look like that's an option right now. I took a whole bunch of shit 38 yeqars ago when I started to design boats to be built in Taiwan. Damn good thing I did. It pretty much put me on the map and I sufferred all the way to the bank.

 

I'd love to see a good builder churning out boats in the PNW. None here now.

Mayo banfa ( there is nothing I can do about it).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will not purchase any product that originated in the U.S. but is now manufactured in China. Just won't do it. It's hard, but I am giving it a try. This is a prime example. New Zealand company moves production to China, yet they still want to sell their product in New Zealand. That means New Zealand jobs are adios. If they want to sell their product in New Zealand then I suggest a 100% import tax on that product.

 

you obvioulsy dont understanf the difference between comparative and competitive advantages

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no problems with Hakes moving their manufacturing to China... looks like that's the sensible thing to do - if they didn't, chances are they'd just go out of business anyway.

 

What sucks is that they appear (** NOTE: please someone with more or more recent info than that article correct me here if I'm wrong) to have screwed their local employees out of their employment entitlements by making the local operation go bust.

 

That'll go pretty funny with the tiller hooked up that way.

 

What way?

 

depends which way you face when steering, I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another entry into the fast IRC 40(ish) market, a 42 by JV to be built by Hakes Marine's new operation in China. To join the Ker and the Summit/Mills.

 

http://www.hakesmari...e_20120626.html

 

 

 

 

HH42-Exterior13.jpg

 

That'll go pretty funny with the tiller hooked up that way.

I don't get it... Tiller is the right way.. Clears the pedestal... Tiller Extension is on correctly.. It seems to be lined up with the stock.. it is at the back of the boat..

 

Am I missing something or you guys smoking crack again?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another entry into the fast IRC 40(ish) market, a 42 by JV to be built by Hakes Marine's new operation in China. To join the Ker and the Summit/Mills.

 

http://www.hakesmari...e_20120626.html

 

 

 

 

HH42-Exterior13.jpg

 

That'll go pretty funny with the tiller hooked up that way.

I don't get it... Tiller is the right way.. Clears the pedestal... Tiller Extension is on correctly.. It seems to be lined up with the stock.. it is at the back of the boat..

 

Am I missing something or you guys smoking crack again?

 

must put down that crack pipe.

 

I looked at it as if the red bit was the tiller (not the extension)... thanks for pointing it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The "they took our jobs" is, in many cases, a reasonable conlusion. Blaming China for it, though, is not. We allowed them to take our jobs by making our purchase choices based on the price tag only.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That'll go pretty funny with the tiller hooked up that way.

 

What way?

Go back to the beginning and read/veiw posts and pictures. It helps.

 

Listen, Riddler: I'm not Batman. Why don't you just tell me?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mex:

I understand totally. But we were taking heat before we even began production. Despite the fact we were working with an established yard that had a very good record for quality at the time, i.e. Passports and Outbounds. I'm not whining. I'm just saying it's interesting how the attitude has changed about China builds. When we tried it was a bad thing. When an established builder moves his production to China to an untried yard its a good thing.

 

I get it. We were nobodies from nowhere and had no place in the sportboat business. But despite not being in the "cool group" we made some boats that have made a lot of people happy. I love working in China. I like pretty much everything about it. I've worked hard at the language. I have tried to understand the culture. I've been called an "egg", i.e. white on the outside and yellow on the inside. I don't care. I like to see boats being built there. I'd way prefer to see them built here but it doesn't look like that's an option right now. I took a whole bunch of shit 38 yeqars ago when I started to design boats to be built in Taiwan. Damn good thing I did. It pretty much put me on the map and I sufferred all the way to the bank.

 

I'd love to see a good builder churning out boats in the PNW. None here now.

Mayo banfa ( there is nothing I can do about it).

 

Bob, we love the Red Stripe in CT and now have a new friend to play with this summer...3 boats going to Block Island Race Week...should be fun!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The "they took our jobs" is, in many cases, a reasonable conlusion. Blaming China for it, though, is not. We allowed them to take our jobs by making our purchase choices based on the price tag only.

Amen. But realistically a NZ boat builder probably costs 3-4 x a Chinese one per hour. Given that even mass produced boats involve a lot of manual labour the cost differentials are huge, even accepting productivity differences (which aren't necessarily huge for manual tasks).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oddly enough, in months before the depression started, I was on a project where we got bids to construct a $5M foam fiberglass one-off performance cruiser (lots of performance). Turned out the US yards could match or beat any yard on Earth -- Europe, Africa, Asia, Australia, NZ.

 

However, the yards in China have really stepped up while the US industry has pretty much collapsed. I thought the accepted wisdom was socialism is bad for economic growth? Hmmm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the accepted wisdom was socialism is bad for economic growth? Hmmm.

You seem to be confusing China with socialist country.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anybody else think it is strange that Hakes goes bust in NZ and the facility is empty and then opens up in China with a full infrastructure the next day...

 

That sucks.. it seems they screwed the employees out of their redundancy payments:

 

http://www.alfalyrae...er-lays-off-15/

 

The effects of globalization are tough.

 

But blowing off the "redundancy payments" and apparently even a weeks worth of wages already earned -- as that article states, unrebutted by Hakes -- well, that's "Lets go burn down his house" territory. I doubt that Mr. Hakes (I liked that Z39 they were building some time back) has moved lock, stock and barrel out of NZ. Like Chris Rock says: "I'm not saying its right. But I understand."

 

Re this: "All boats to be made in China" trend: for you jokers who talk about it being the way to lift millions out of poverty, well that may be an attenuated (and wholly unintended) side effect. But the primary goal is simply to make more money for McConaghy/Hakes et al. Best way to find out where the cheapest labor is at any given moment is to look inside a Nike shoe and check its place of manufacture.

 

And while some hardworking Chinese may be lifted, those 15 Kiwis sure got dropped. There's no getting around it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the accepted wisdom was socialism is bad for economic growth? Hmmm.

You seem to be confusing China with socialist country.

 

Tyrranical Capitalism

 

B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How is this boat any different to the others on the market, ie the Ker40, Farr400 and the Carkeek 40? The STL appears to be shorter than the others for IRC rating reduction?

 

If the market for the 40 foot races boats is to take off, their IRC rating needs to be competitive (W and LW racing) against the B40, B45 and the TP52's! How is the new Carkeek 45 going on IRC?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites