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drakeborer

Outremer 5x vs new Gunboat 60

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Any thoughts on how these two boats stack up? Both are targeting the same market. (the performance oriented cruising multihull). While the outremer is sig cheaper it appears to be a nice boat. I haven't seen it's polars, but from the videos,she sure seems to move nicely. Is gunboat still the gold standard for this class boat?

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No there is a French designed 60 of which 3 were built all carbon. One is owned by some well known hobie and f boat sailors. It's apparently significantly faster than the gunboats

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No there is a French designed 60 of which 3 were built all carbon. One is owned by some well known hobie and f boat sailors. It's apparently significantly faster than the gunboats

 

Anybody have any more details on these boats?

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Outremer cats have always been designed as a very good sailing and ocean voyaging cat first.

 

A few earlier ones were a little heavier, hence the Outremer "light" versions, I dont know if they build an all carbon generation, if they do now, then I am sure they will sail very, very well.

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I was wondering the same thing regarding how they would compare...

 

I suspect the Gunboat might be a bit lighter (more carbon, more $) but the Outremer might be really close in performance and looks very functional.

 

I remember this: http://www.multihullcompany.com/Catamaran_for_Sale/Tecna_Etincelle_Performance_Catamaran/Freebirds

Being called a "Gunboat killer" but I don't know who makes it.

 

I also saw this one not too long ago that looks like a direct Gunboat competitor: http://www.catalibi.fr/main.html . Looks plenty fast too (they claim 20kt boat speed in 16kt true)!

 

 

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No there is a French designed 60 of which 3 were built all carbon. One is owned by some well known hobie and f boat sailors. It's apparently significantly faster than the gunboats

 

Anybody have any more details on these boats?

 

Etincelle 60

 

one on Yachtworld

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"It's apparently significantly faster than the gunboats"

 

Not even close, though they are fast boats.

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Don't know about the new 5x but the older Outremers were "old fashion"-fast. Slender single skin hulls, conservative rigging, daggerboards. Sails well but different world from Gunboat.

"Light"-versions are narrower and hence lighter. Some might have racing interior, but name is slightly misleading.

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"It's apparently significantly faster than the gunboats"

 

Not even close, though they are fast boats.

 

 

I'm comparing it vs the 62 MUCH lighter 22k vs 35k slightly less SA narrower beam. I've not sail the gunboat but I did sail on the etincelle and the people who own it are credible in their assessment

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Bull Gator, various Gunboats raced an Etincelle at the Heineken Regatta in St Maarten 2 or 3 years ago. It was not close at all. The Gunboats were 1-2 minutes a mile faster.

 

Boneboy, If you compare materials used, and typical finishes between the brands, you ought to be able to arrive at what the differences are between these very different boats. The Gunboat 60 is very much a world cruiser with every imaginable comfort, and has a hybrid system that promises carbon positive cruising. Our new Gunboat 55 is a simpler series that may be a more apples to apples comparison. I invite you to come see either Gunboat series in person. When you see how we do things, I think you will agree that Gunboat keeps pushing the standard in the market ever higher.

 

Every year, we endure very optimistic claims by others aiming for the market segment established by Gunboat. Etincelle, TS50, and others. The Caribbean Regattas clean up the BS pretty quickly. The folks at Outremer are friends of the people at Gunboat. I think they would be the first to agree that we aim to produce very different boats at different price points.

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I agree with Peter. Performance can be gained through austerity i.e. sacrificing creature comforts in exchange for speed. Outremer choose this route and make a pretty cool boat for the money...but they are not Gunboats---performance achieved in different way and without sacrificing comfort.

When you get into this part of the market it gets tough to compare apples to apples because there just aren't that many species out there to use as examples. The differences are not all that clear until you step aboard and sail. Then it becomes crystal.

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Bull Gator, various Gunboats raced an Etincelle at the Heineken Regatta in St Maarten 2 or 3 years ago. It was not close at all. The Gunboats were 1-2 minutes a mile faster.

 

Boneboy, If you compare materials used, and typical finishes between the brands, you ought to be able to arrive at what the differences are between these very different boats. The Gunboat 60 is very much a world cruiser with every imaginable comfort, and has a hybrid system that promises carbon positive cruising. Our new Gunboat 55 is a simpler series that may be a more apples to apples comparison. I invite you to come see either Gunboat series in person. When you see how we do things, I think you will agree that Gunboat keeps pushing the standard in the market ever higher.

 

Every year, we endure very optimistic claims by others aiming for the market segment established by Gunboat. Etincelle, TS50, and others. The Caribbean Regattas clean up the BS pretty quickly. The folks at Outremer are friends of the people at Gunboat. I think they would be the first to agree that we aim to produce very different boats at different price points.

 

I believe the boat in question is a live aboard? No?

 

Why is the gunboat so much heavier hough? At that price point I'd expect better

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I see they raced in separate class the gunboat 66 rates 1.17 the eticelle 1.142

 

Is the 60 faster than the 66?

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The ratings at Heineken are as arbitrary as you could imagine. Don't put any stock in that.

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Peter I have always enjoyed the fact that you respond frankly in the forums (albeit sometimes with an understandable bias). I wish more builders would have the courage to do so (perhaps they do but don't take the time.. I also enjoy Jim Lee's input in the sport boat forums). It should be taken as a compliment that I referred to Gunboat as the gold standard. The fact that there are "Gunboat killers" should be taken the same way. People don't gun (no pun intented) for the middle of pact. Unfortunately unless life throws me some serious lobs that I can hit out of the park, your boats are beyond my (and most I should think) realistic reach. It is nice to see the "performance" cruising cat is becoming a more serious market. As you yourself have stated, cruising on a cat is really a very attractive thing for a family. Unfortunately, until fairly recently, the performance of your average cruising cat was really not up to par with the much more mature monohull market. I think that as time goes on this will change. I applaud you for creating, or at very least, refining the market. I am a very avid sport boat racer, but I realize that if I am ever to convince my wife to move onto a boat, and cruise for an extended period of time, it is not going to be on a TP 52. However, the monohull market is rife with options for comfort AND performance - at almost any price point. An excerpt from a recent email.....

 

You kinda do get what you pay for. I started a thread on Sailing Anarchy Multihull forums (one of the most participated sailing forums in the world) comparing the Outremer 5x to the Gunboat 60. Has kinda been fun to watch, already with over 10 replies, one of them from Peter Johnstone himself (owner of Gunboat). My impression is you do kinda get what you pay for, and you have to know what you want. To relate it to recent car shopping.......... Gunboat is Porsche Cayenne turbo. Outremer is prob like a nice Audi. Voyage prob a suburban, and the first mooring cats we chartered like a mini van. I'm encouraged to know that there is a more complete market . There are Audi's, etc.. I won't only have the choice of a Tahoe or Porsche. There are boats in between

 

 

I hope to be in the market in the next ten years and I am having fun exploring the various options.

 

For what it is worth, I just bought a very nice Audi. Liked the Porsche but couldn't afford it :)

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I see they raced in separate class the gunboat 66 rates 1.17 the eticelle 1.142

 

Is the 60 faster than the 66?

 

 

For what it's worth, comparing ratings of these boats is like taking an accordian to a bar fight (or like having the French as an ally in war) Just kidding.. Love the French (hate to say it but we owe so much to them in the multihull (even all the sailing) world.

 

 

No one is buying these boats to race around bouys.

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Bull Gator,

 

I am assuming you are basing your weight presumptions on published figures? All I can tell you is exactly what any Gunboat weighs. I have seen every competitor out of the water and have a pretty good idea of the comparable displacements based on under water volumes of other offerings. Let's just say that if another boat looks about the same size underwater, it likely displaces a similar amount. If you have seen the underwater volume of a Gunboat when it is on the hard, and could compare it to some of your referenced examples, I doubt you would see much difference in the underwater volume. Most published displacement figures appear overly optimistic. Ours figures are conservative. The results at regattas should speak for themselves. Some Gunboats race fully loaded, some strip out excess weight. Against the Etincelle, all of the Gunboats were significantly quicker. Just about any decent powered-up cat can hit 18 knots on a reach. This was the one point of sail where the Etincelle looked promising. Upwind and downwind VMG is where the biggest differences in performance can be found. This is where the Gunboats took off from the Etincelle.

 

As stated above, you can reach low displacement through simply putting less aboard. And you can reduce price points by going with polyester resins and fiberglass. Neither approach would suit our customer, who wants the absolute best. Gunboat is more expensive because it is all carbon and epoxy, which allows our boats to carry so much more comfort....or conversely, if you get a true purist (please find me some) you can have a significantly lighter and even quicker offering. Case in point would be TRIBE, the original Gunboat 62. It was an E-glass and epoxy boat with minimal creature comforts, smaller sails, shorter rig. At the other end of the Gunboat spectrum would be PHAEDO, which is gorgeous, but filled with pizza oven, bbq, five cabins, printer, twice the furniture, taller rig, bigger sails, etc. She is an all carbon Gunboat. The two examples go similar speeds, albeit at much different project costs. The market has expressed itself very clearly by choosing much more fully equipped Gunboats in recent years. The Gunboat 60 series follows the PHAEDO style high tech construction, which allows the performance to remain very high, but also carry all of the comforts. Phaedo and the Gunboat 60 series are still very lightweight for their size, and offer ideal dual-purpose power-to-weight ratios for world cruising and fun racing. Gunboat's power to weight ratios are in a real sweet spot for these type of cats. We have reduced the carbon structural weight to the same or less than the sum of the interior, systems and conveniences. I could bore you all with the incremental improvements made in weight reduction over the past 12 years. It is ongoing obsession. Pitch all of the comforts over the side, and sure, you can reduce the overall weight a lot.....but try selling that to your wife for a world cruise.

 

The Gunboat 60 is expected to be within 1-2% of the Gunboat 66 speed. The advantage will depend on the windspeed, wave state, and angle. The two series have slightly different strengths.

 

I would suggest you withhold judgement of various brands and series until you get more time on the various cats. Sounds like you are getting focused on multis, which is great. Come sail with us sometime.

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Looking at the numbers from the respective websites, I read Outremer 5X at 13.1t and Gunboat 60 at 16.2t (around 2 tons heavier than the GB 66) which makes the Gunboat 60 closer to the Catana 59 than the Outremer 5X. Looking at the YouTube video from Gregor Tarjan,

I have a tough time finding where does the Outremer 5X qualify as a stripped out boat that compromised comfort for weight savings. It seems pretty comfortable and good enough for long term blue water cruising. I would be interested to read why is the Gunboat 60 supposedly much more comfortable than the 5X. At 3tons lighter, I do not see how the VPLP designed 5X could be slower than the Gunboat 60. Where is the additional comfort for 3 tons and USD 1m more on the Gunboat 60? I can understand that the original Gunboat 62 and then 66 were called high performance but the new 60 seems to be in a different category with many cats much lighter or similar (including French production boats)

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in theory

 

there is theory and practice

 

but in practice

 

there is only practice

 

so "i have a hard time seeing why X can't be Y" become irrelevant once the real results start coming in

 

so far

 

that would appear to be the GBs beating the Etincelle

 

that may change

 

but that seems to be case right now

 

who have thought the VW beetle would be around for so long

 

or the 911 or even the hobie 16

 

according to the experts of the day they were not very good

 

but their sales results proved they were very good indeed

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The reality is that most who comment on the debate will never ever afford either. Me included. But its still fun to postulate.

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anybody paying attention about the drivers on the boat which BullG is talking about are maybe one of the very best Multi sailors this side of France..... ( well there is a handfull others of course, but NOT many )

 

just sayin .....

thor

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MedCat, step aboard the boats and see for yourself, and your questions will be answered. The two brands aim at different ends of the price spectrum, material specifications, and finish level. One is not right or wrong. Just very different boats for different types of people playing at different levels in the market segment. Gunboat welcomes the 5x and other offerings to the performance segment established by Gunboat. We feel it is a validation of what we have achieved in the past 12 years.

 

Personally, with bigger cats, I feel much safer with epoxy resins and carbon for ultimate strength. A polyester resin and glass boat has a lot of structural movement by comparison. Gunboats have done over 2 million miles without a major structural issue. That is quite a track record. I've been through three good winter time gales on Gunboats with 65+ knots, and am grateful we have never cut a corner on cost or materials. We build Gunboats for world cruising, and they do that very well. They happen to be pretty quick.

 

The Gunboat 66 series are mostly in the 19 ton loaded range. We know what they can do. Like Bull Gator, you are making assumptions/judgements based on published marketing figures. The proof is on the water. Gunboats are not shy about doing races and showing what they can do. As we have said to any number of folks espousing some new design, come out and play. Performance is important to us, but it is just one aspect of what makes a Gunboat work so well for its owners.

 

In summary, we are not the solution for everyone. A Gunboat customer is a pretty special person that appreciates the parameters we have set and met. Others are going to have their following too for what they set out to do. Frankly, if we can all get more people into multihulls, the world will be a better place.

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[sNIP]

You kinda do get what you pay for. I started a thread on Sailing Anarchy Multihull forums (one of the most participated sailing forums in the world) comparing the Outremer 5x to the Gunboat 60. Has kinda been fun to watch, already with over 10 replies, one of them from Peter Johnstone himself (owner of Gunboat). My impression is you do kinda get what you pay for, and you have to know what you want. To relate it to recent car shopping.......... Gunboat is Porsche Cayenne turbo. Outremer is prob like a nice Audi. Voyage prob a suburban, and the first mooring cats we chartered like a mini van. I'm encouraged to know that there is a more complete market . There are Audi's, etc.. I won't only have the choice of a Tahoe or Porsche. There are boats in between

 

 

In that comparios the McC2 would be a Bentley or maybe one of the Ferrari GTs - it absolutely creams all of the other boats.

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Ballast,

 

I have seen their enthusiastic claims. There is no question you can go faster and lighter. If speed is the goal, what is the point of furniture and a wing deck? May as well do a cat like Nigel's 60' Adrenalina http://www.nigelirens.com/FRAMEperform.htm. And if a beam & tramp cat makes sense, well, you may as well consider a trimaran. In our 12 years of building Gunboats, we deal with 1-2 new efforts annually making big claims about what they will do in our market segment. Most will end up at a sailing weight that bears little semblance to the claims prior to launching. With time, we've realized that all of these efforts by others simply help this market segment gain a bigger foothold, which is great.

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anybody paying attention about the drivers on the boat which BullG is talking about are maybe one of the very best Multi sailors this side of France..... ( well there is a handfull others of course, but NOT many )

 

just sayin .....

thor

 

 

Yup

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performance of Gunboats has been verified in so many races that any other brochure claims relative to a GB should be responded to simply with a "Missouri" response (i.e. show me). Look at the last Fastnet: Phaedo went around in the company of Open60s and mini maxis (Ran etc). OTOH the next multis were 40-odd ft Dazcats which by any definition are pretty good Performance Cruisers two of which had done pretty well in the previous year's doublehanded RBI.

 

I suppose if a Gunboat is Porsche Cayenne Turbo S i.e. a 190+ mph 7 passenger SUV then I'd reckon a lot of the other boats are BMW X5s or Jeep Grand Cherokee sports i.e. pretty damn quick for something that can carry 7 people and 2 weeks worth of groceries. Actually when it comes to SUVs you can buy 300hp Mazdas now. Truth is that in the same way that your wife doesn't use the 5 second 0-60 and 150+ mph top speed grocery getting, most blue water cruisers don't go blasting around at 20+knots. There are any number of capable cruising cats that'll happily cruise at 250+ miles/day because in truth not a lot of people are willing to pay for the ability to cruise at 300+ miles/day or willing to sail that fast even if they have the boat to do so.

 

Rather than all these dodgy euro rendering jobs my candidates for my "Jeep Grand Cherokee Sport" cat would be one of these sexy quick southern hemisphere jobs...

 

The one place where you can justifiably criticise GB (and Chris White's boats too) is that, below the flash paint jobs) they're pretty boring looks-wise. A little too form follow function. Looks like a small box having a menage a trois with a couple hulls. I reckon the new wave piercer-sih designs will be more interesting looking but will have to wait to see it in the carbon fiber.

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Some questions about the etincelle:

Are there any significant race results for this boat?

Has one actually been set up for racing?

It should be moderately quick, light weight (for a cruiser) long narrow hulls etc, I believe it was made from carbon and epoxy??? so should be stiff.

Would it be quick with decent sails and masthead kite?

Has anyone got any experience with one of these?

On another note carbon on cruiser racers is not necessarily lighter in the hulls, as a certain amount of laminate thickness is required for impact resistance. That is why many boats use carbon in high load areas and bulkheads and good glass laminates in hulls and decks etc.

I am pretty sure there would be no comparison between the gunboat and outreamer 5x. Gunboat much much quicker.

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Thanks Speng for comments. I will send Scot some recent pics of the new 60 to put on the front page. They may change your mind about our appearance.....

 

Bush, if you look up old St Maarten Heineken results, you will see Etincelle performance. She was not up to the hype. Gunboats showed much better elapsed times. The Gunboat class would start five minutes after the Etincelle and pass her within the first few miles of each race, usually finishing 1-2 minutes a mile quicker. In 2011, we raced one at Antigua too, I believe, and it was not a factor at all.

 

With smaller cats, the carbon skins have less advantage due to impact requirements and needed skin thickness. Once you are over 50', all advantages go to carbon. The strength required for the skins already gives you the impact resistance. Woven carbon is about as good as it gets for impact resistance. In nearly two million Gunboat sea miles, we have had two Gunboats impact submerged containers at speed. Both Gunboats came away with minor sacrificial bow damage and were able to complete their ocean crossings with no concerns.

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Thanks Speng for comments. I will send Scot some recent pics of the new 60 to put on the front page. They may change your mind about our appearance.....

 

Bush, if you look up old St Maarten Heineken results, you will see Etincelle performance. She was not up to the hype. Gunboats showed much better elapsed times. The Gunboat class would start five minutes after the Etincelle and pass her within the first few miles of each race, usually finishing 1-2 minutes a mile quicker. In 2011, we raced one at Antigua too, I believe, and it was not a factor at all.

 

With smaller cats, the carbon skins have less advantage due to impact requirements and needed skin thickness. Once you are over 50', all advantages go to carbon. The strength required for the skins already gives you the impact resistance. Woven carbon is about as good as it gets for impact resistance. In nearly two million Gunboat sea miles, we have had two Gunboats impact submerged containers at speed. Both Gunboats came away with minor sacrificial bow damage and were able to complete their ocean crossings with no concerns.

 

 

Again was not that boat a live aboard? What about the sail inventory? Not all carbon right? Knowing the racing reputation of the owners if they say the boat is faster I believe them.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't better sailor+faster boat=elapsed time victory? Just sayin'.

 

(Keep in mind, every GB 62 & 66 is a live aboard, too.)

 

I've been aboard the Etincelle, it's a great boat, and I've met the owners in question, super nice people. I actually inadvertently owe them an apology. I protested another boat at Heineken a couple of years ago. It was upheld and as a result we got first, bumping the Etincelle out of first. They seemed unaware at the prize giving of all the protest room drama, and they were all set to go receive their trophy. Innocent victims who sailed a great regatta. Like I said, though, nice people. So if you're reading the boards, sorry. Come back and race again. I hope we didn't turn you off racing in the Cariibean...

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Knowing the racing reputation of the owners if they say the boat is faster I believe them.

 

Yeah, damn the results and facts. If it's good enough for you...

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Thanks Speng for comments. I will send Scot some recent pics of the new 60 to put on the front page. They may change your mind about our appearance.....

 

 

 

 

Peter, please do. I love the boat, I think? The website could use a little updating. (you may be winning on the race course, but you're getting hammered on the computer by some of the other manufactures.................I'm just sayin!

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post-7655-090914700 1343145954_thumb.jpgBoneboy, the website is a sore subject. The new site has been in process since last October. A few more weeks.... The attached view is the only one those competitors can expect to see of a Gunboat.

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post-7655-090914700 1343145954_thumb.jpgBoneboy, the website is a sore subject. The new site has been in process since last October. A few more weeks.... The attached view is the only one those competitors can expect to see of a Gunboat.

 

 

it never leaves the dock? :lol:

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Bull Gator, based on the regattas we have sailed, the Gunboat fleet would have been partying at the dock for almost an hour before the Etincelle pulled up. So your comment is almost correct. Seems like the Gunboats never left the dock. Start after, finish before. Have more fun. To each his own.

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Oh please just having a littlec fun. The owners are better multihull sailors than you so I give their claims some credit. You never addressed the live in nature of their boat nor the sail inventory (cruising vs racing).

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C'mon now boys, can't we all just get along and play nicely;)

 

 

 

Peter, congrats. The pic on the front page is very nice. She looks great. Can't wait to hear about the sea trials

 

 

 

I can sympathize with you on the website thing. I have the same prob.

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hmm ... is it an optical illusion or are the hulls concave on the inboard side?

 

post-7655-090914700 1343145954_thumb.jpgBoneboy, the website is a sore subject. The new site has been in process since last October. A few more weeks.... The attached view is the only one those competitors can expect to see of a Gunboat.

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Only one way to settle this discussion. Give me one of each for an extended period and after rigorous testing I will be happy to return to this thread with a (definitive) opinion. B)

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Bull Gator, based on the regattas we have sailed, the Gunboat fleet would have been partying at the dock for almost an hour before the Etincelle pulled up. So your comment is almost correct. Seems like the Gunboats never left the dock. Start after, finish before. Have more fun. To each his own.

 

C'mon Peter - quit feeding it or you'll never get any sleep.

 

Gator thinks his Etincelle "pals are great sailors", which means they know how to tie a bowline, and that they asked him to stay away from their boat or they would call the cops.

 

Everyone else knows which boat is quicker.

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and has a hybrid system that promises carbon positive cruising.

 

lol, why bringing this kind of crap ?

 

How is your "hybrid system" fed ? Solar only for the engines ? Come on ..., not even talking about embeded CO2 that such a boat represents ..

 

Makes you wonder about the other statements !

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Bull Gator, based on the regattas we have sailed, the Gunboat fleet would have been partying at the dock for almost an hour before the Etincelle pulled up. So your comment is almost correct. Seems like the Gunboats never left the dock. Start after, finish before. Have more fun. To each his own.

 

C'mon Peter - quit feeding it or you'll never get any sleep.

 

Gator thinks his Etincelle "pals are great sailors", which means they know how to tie a bowline, and that they asked him to stay away from their boat or they would call the cops.

 

Everyone else knows which boat is quicker.

 

 

See thors comment you clueless twit...

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The ratings at Heineken are as arbitrary as you could imagine. Don't put any stock in that.

 

Amen brother. The ratings in the multihull class at this year's Heineken were a joke. Paradox (Irens 60' race/cruise tri) had the most ridiculous rating in the fleet. They were owed time by 35-45 foot cats and tris in the same class. She probably could have sailed the regatta without any headsails up and still won! The guys on Paradox were a nice bunch but I wonder why they did not bring up the obvious discrepancy to the race organizers. That regatta was certainly not a challenge for them to win their class.

 

I think the best compliment to Gunboat is the fact that so many claim to design and build Gunboat "killers". The future is bright for performance multihull cruising. Hope there is some candy in the aisles for those of us with less than $200K budgets! My significant partner and I think a Corsair 31UC is currently our best option to stay under $200K if we want performance and a comfortable platform.

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lol

Clean ... SHE would eat you for lunch ( and not in a good way ) in any Multi... Hobie, Corsair, and and and

 

Having said that .... There were and are some awesome crews out on the Gunboats racing around the world. There is no doubt that a well sailed Gunboat will outperform most every thing out there, with a half ass interieur.

Consistently, on all kinds of races....

Dont take just one or two where the rockstars were sailing against a family crew.

 

( I think the former owner of my boat outsailed a Gunboat like 3 years ago on the trip home from the Annapolis show on a hard to wind course ??? Peter, were you drinking tea at that time ? ...lol )

 

If Peter would get his butt of the leather covered couch in his gunboat, put the tea down, and would thinking about hard core racing , it would be faster, but why ? the GB are fast cruisers for a few mere mortals who can afford them.

 

Thor

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Perhaps I can put this thread back on a more interesting tack - I can speak to the performance of the 5X having sailed on hull #1 twice in as delivered form - CF rotating spar, alu boom, dinghy, teak cockpit, washing machine, fridge, freezer, dishwasher etc - no A/C, no genset.

 

The first day it was blowing 18 kts and we sailed her on a reach at 16 kts with gennaker and main fully raised, and 12 knots under genoa and main close hauled.

 

The second day it was less windy - 11-12 kts and we sailed her at 10 kts on a reach and 8 knots close hauled.

 

I was impressed enough to order one a while back and have hull #4 due to me in Nov - I think the Gunboats are lovely things but for me the new 55 isn't a practical round the world proposition (my purpose w/ my family) with the inside-outside saloon/cockpit concept - I think that's awesome for a weekend and holiday toy, but not a round the world voyager. The 55 and 5X are similar prices, but while the 60 addresses those concerns, but is out of my price range compared to the 5X (by about $1M) - it is also made in China - not high on my personal list of places to buy a luxury good from :-)

 

As Peter has said, different strokes for different folks - different construction materials etc etc, its great to have the choice.

 

Incidentally was on the harbor in Newport today and we drove the dinghy right past Sugar Daddy - she looks lovely but at 3.5M before offers, also too rich for my budget :-)

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That was great info, Dan360. Glad to return to the original question. The Outremer seems like a great boat for a great price. I look forward to seeing a head to head match up with a GB.

 

Today, in what was basically just another day in the life of a GB, we hit 23.9 in 20-25 and flat(ish) water with full main and fractional screecher. Steady speeds in the low 20's. Coming back upwind, we were 1st reef and solent seeing 12-13.5, tacking through 90 degrees.

 

For me, the GB style forward cockpit is a must. The French love the tiller and ORMA style bucket seat at the back of the boat. I don't. I also don't love the overlapping headsail. The self tacking Solent is mint. Retractable rudders are also fantastic. But, to each his own. Congrats on your purchase, Dan. I don't have the means to buy anything, but if I was a hedge fund gazillionaire it'd be a GB. If I couldn't afford a used GB I'd take a hard look at an Outremer.

 

There are some really cool boats coming out. The 5x, the MC2 60, the GB 60 & 55. A lot to look forward to seeing.

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Both those numbers are available from GB themselves with a simple conversation - I'll let them post themselves if they wish to.

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Bull Gator....you pass judgement on people you have never met and boats you have never sailed.....nice.

Peter,

 

You have a great company that builds beautiful boats even though they may not meet BullG's requirements, tastes or inspirations, but that does not make your company shine any less. I had the pleasure of looking at one of your early boats in dry dock in Newport. I think it was an M&M designed boat. I was blown away by what I saw up close. If you know of anyone in NE that would be open to having an A-Cat sailor on board for a day please let me know. I have been dying to sail on one since my first peak at one of your boats. With that said, you do not need to keep defending yourself and your product to those who do not see what you are accomplishing. By the way KUDOS to you for opening the plant in NC. I do not know your reasons for choosing to do so, but I think it is great that you brought some of your building facilities back to the US. I hope that overtime you find that it makes sense for you to bring more production back to this country. Please keep up the great work. Your product does make more people interested in multihull sailing. Even those like me who cannot afford your products or even the Outremer 5x. But I can afford an A-Cat, a Tornado and a 4knt SB. Thanks again, Tom

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Tom, thanks for the nice comments. Send me an email and I will see what we can do about a ride. Over the years, I have enjoyed owning and sailing a Waterat M&M A-class, and a Bimare XJ. A-Class cats are a dream.

 

Gunboat's long term plan is to have production in the USA, and production in China. Both yards are demonstrating excellent technical capabilities, and are putting out gorgeous work. Both yards will build 2-3 Gunboat series long term. We wish to better serve our customers by having convenient locations in both the Atlantic and Asia-Pacific basins. North Carolina is right on the migratory path from the Caribbean to the US or Europe. If you drew the location of most of our owners in the US and Europe, the epicenter is pretty close to NC. SE China is ideally located for SE Asia, and close enough to serve our Australian owners after a season in Malaysia, Indonesia or Thailand. We have more and more Gunboats spending time in the Pacific and exploring Asia, and the market in that region is showing strong growth each year.

 

Dan360, congrats on taking the plunge. A big cat is one life's true joys. It sounds like you weighed carefully your budget versus benefits. Everyone must do that, and no one can question your choices and compromises that suit you today. Personally, my philosophy is a bit different. Maybe it is from enduring some of the fury that nature can whip up, and you face it because of some schedule. When I take my family and friends on ocean crossings, I am not prepared to make any compromise on materials or cost. Whatever makes the absolute safest and best platform is the minimum I will accept. This philosophy has proven itself with two million sea miles behind the brand, and no major structural issues. The redundancies in safety aboard a Gunboat would make any experienced offshore sailor breathe easier (is one ever 100% certain about preparation?)....1) sacrificial false bows 2) structural bulkhead well aft of the stems 3) collision bulkheads for the bows 4) collision bulkhead forward of steering systems 5) bilge divided up into 3-4 separate spaces per each side 6) finally, 100% core cell cored vacuum infused post cured epoxy construction with all woven carbon skins and world cruising safety factors in all engineering. The epoxy and carbon structures on Gunboats show zero aging after 100,000 miles or more. This is a far cry from the usual polyester, glass, gelcoat boats that can do a lot of flexing and distorting under load. Big cats endure big and complex loads. When you sail a Gunboat offshore, the structure, furniture and floors are silent. All you hear is wind and water rushing past. There is not a groan, squeak or any hint of movement or deformation of the structure. Most of the polyester and glass cats can create a symphony of sounds from the movement and flexing offshore. To me, that is disconcerting. All brands have their comfort level of what is required to go offshore. And each brand addresses a level in the marketplace. It sounds like Outremer has met your requirements at this point, and that is great. I applaud Outremer for getting their price points so low and getting more people out there cruising in performance cats. Our demands for Gunboat are simply higher, and that costs more. Gunboat is not all things to all people. We simply want to deliver the pinnacle for a world cruising cat. The more miles one does, the more one realizes that you're never fully prepared no matter how careful. This is the beauty and the attraction of world cruising and oceanic crossings. You never stop learning and perfection is never achieved. It can only be aspired towards. This thinking is the foundation of Gunboat's philosophy, and motivates and inspires us every day. The new facilities, the all new series, the constant improvement evident in our series are all evidence of this approach.

 

When it comes to the Gunboat 55, we have designed the innovative new layout for the way most people actually use their cats on a circumnavigation. The moment you step aboard, you throw open the doors and windows to the aft cockpit, and you rarely close them. So what is the purpose of the bulkhead dividing the main deck's space? For foul weather, you can enclose the entire area with a soft/semi rigid set of panels. I would never have thought of this until seeing one of our Gunboat 48's in Finland. They actively cruise their Gunboat in Scandanavia 9 months out of the year....some of it while snowing. To get more interior living space on the main deck, they simply enclosed the aft cockpit with a soft and semi-rigid enclosure, and found they never had to close the windows or doors. The enclosure sealed out the elements, and they made better use of the space. We do not expect everyone to grasp the innovative layout on the 55 until they see one in the flesh. The layout makes a lot of sense, and our Gunboat 55 is absolutely designed and spec'd for world cruising. It simply might not fit some current preconceptions of what a world cruiser should be. Every Gunboat is made for world cruising. We are looking forward to showing the market a better way to live aboard and see the world.

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I've had the pleasure to sail the Outremer 49 and 5x this spring and the Gunboat 62 this summer. They are very different but what unites them is the enthusiam of the people behind these great sailing machines. Outremer does a great job with interior design of the hulls which appear more spacious and usable. The exterior and salon / cockpit of the gunboat are well desgined and look smarter. The gunboat is clearly more sophisticated applying carbon everywhere and appears to be stiffer and faster. At 10 knots of wind both start moving and can approach windspeed. The difference here is the pointing ability of the Gunboat. 10 to 12 knots while tacking within 90 degrees is easy. When the waves start to build the stifness of the Gunboat results in more slamming upwind. The outremer is more forgiving upwind but has dificulties to point high (100 / 110 degrees at optimal speed). The great advantage of the Outremer is tiller steering which provides great fun. I was hesitant about the forward cockpit of the Gunboat. In nice weather it works very well and it is fun to steer next to all sail handling and feel the wind looking at the bows. In really bad weather it is great to be inside. I can't decide what I like most and see who both are passionate about their concept.On the gunboat I was lucky to experience 25 knots and we had a great ride with the screecher at 18 -24 knots. Very impressie and still very easy to control white the family was relaxing. I don't think the Outremer could have gone that fast in those conditions but did 12 to 14 knots in 15 knots of breeze as well.

To summarize: both are luxerious, fast and easy to sail State of the Art cruising cats which combine excellent cruising with fast saling. If you can afford the initial investment and expensive maintenance gunboat offers most excitement and stunning looks. Outremer is less expensive but looks and sails very well too and may be better for owner / driver usage or extensive cruising.

 

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"safest and best" is of course still a budget relative concept - otherwise I'd be sailing on something like this: http://www.sy-hemisphere.com/specifications/

 

Outremer do of course also have a reputation founded on voyaging yachts, circumnavigations and safety. Each hull has two water tight compartments a sacrificial one and the sail lockers in the bow, protection for the rudders and sail drives, water tight engine compartments and separate bilge compartments within each hull. I'm personally comfortable that safety isn't a deciding factor between wet lay up carbon and glass fiber - its a matter more of how the hulls are engineered. Neither is as safe as aluminum if you are hitting stuff out in the ocean. Certainly in both my sail tests with serious load on full sails, the 5X gave a great sense of solidness and safety with the loads on the boat.

 

I think GB has done well to have so many orders for the two new models. An outsider would naturally assume that SA was closed in favor of China for cost of construction reasons, and also assume that the US facility was about China not going as well as it might and/or a hedge for the "made in China" brand risk. I'm sure Peter believes in his product and his quality - certainly the existing yachts made in SA speak to that quality. But buying one now means buying into that quality being continued in one of two brand new yards on two brand new designs. That's just a different risk to consider when signing a contract with a builder for over 1.5M USD. It was against that backdrop that I chose not to pursue a GB55 in favor of a 5X. Obviously the helm location forward on the GB allows the open saloon/cockpit concept, but I'm personally not sold on either the forward helm, or the open plan cockpit/saloon for my boat. I also wanted a galley-up configuration, our family are social cooks and we live in our kitchen much of the time in our house. Vive La Difference, clearly two boats for two different buyers :-) I'm glad there was the choice.

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Dan,

 

We have heard the innuendo you mention from some of the French competitors. It is much the same negative suggestions that occurred when we first went to Cape Town. Gunboat's product always shines through this sort of BS.

 

The Cape Town yards did beautiful work. Over ten years, we worked with Harvey Yachts and Jaz Marine as subcontractors on the Gunboat 62 series. We then started with Acheson Rossa on the Gunboat 48 series. I ended up purchasing that yard. As the Gunboat 66 series took off, I also purchased Latitude, the yard that had built the AC boat Shoshaloza. Those two yards were combined into Gunboat's first wholly owned yard. The common thread through those years in Cape Town was Gunboat's specifications, management, people, oversight and philosophy. This is what achieves our market setting standard wherever we produce Gunboats. It did not matter which yard produced the boat. Each achieved excellent results. Cape Town was a brilliant place to build boats. Over our time there, the costs of the mandatory union labor did drive our costs upward to the point of making the location an issue. Cape Town and its people are exceptional. It's labor laws are difficult. That was a difficult and sad decision for me to make.

 

We went to the yard in China initially for the yard's capabilities. The yard has one of the largest 5-axis milling machines in the marine industry, and we can produce full female tooling at a reasonable cost. The two CNC machines allow beautifully fit furniture. All of the materials are from Europe or America. The build practices in the yard are best practices anywhere. The labor costs are mid-range. I do not consider this location a low-labor cost area. Phil and Laura Harvey, who built Gunboats at Harvey Yachts, set up the Gunboat production there. Our best practices from our first ten years have all been improved upon at this yard. The team has simply gotten stronger and stronger. The yard has recently attracted Paul Hakes, and his core team from NZ to join us. Paul built many of the top TP52's. It is an extraordinary team that is assembled to produce the Gunboat series there. The first Gunboat 60 is for a German software developer. The result is on par with our Gunboat 90 project and our Gunboat 66 series. Most people who have seen the 60 feel we have taken a significant step beyond our earlier series. I am at this yard every few weeks, and I am very impressed. There is no question that this yard is committed to achieving a world leading standard. I am proud of what that they have done in such a short time.

 

The timing was right to purchase a yard in the USA and better serve our primary customer base. We were able to acquire a waterfront yard with an ideal building set up for modern boat building. With the 55 series ready to start, it made sense to make that the first series in the USA. It is ideally suited for the American customer contemplating a world cruise. Our view is long term, and we feel better served by having two yards. If one should ever have a disaster, there is always one running. Two yards allows a much greater geographic reach into the market. The yard in China and the yard in the USA share best practices and cooperate in all respects. The Gunboat 55 will likely be produced in China as well. The US Gunboat production has now started under the guidance of Phil and Laura Harvey. In every yard we have produced, the emphasis is always to employ our best practices. When you have a 12 year history, and 2 million sea miles behind a leading brand, those best practices tend to stand for something, and have real meaning to us, and to our customers. It is a shame we did not get the opportunity to convey to you the thoroughness and level of what we do.

 

On layouts, the Gunboat 55 is available with galley up or down. We can even offer the bucket and aft corner steering location, but I will always advise against it. I have done 24 months of living aboard, and have covered 80,000 miles on Gunboats. When you have done that time, you realize you want all of the joy of being outdoors, but with protection from the sun and sometimes wind. Gunboat reflects this long term cruising experience. Further, the safest location in storm conditions is in the center of the boat, away from the sides that can be exposed to random waves. And, let's face it, anyone that has done many passages will attest to the fact that the autopilots steer 99% of the time. If I wanted to steer a big multi like an ORMA 60 in a bucket off to the side, I would simply buy an ORMA 60, rather than pretend to be on one. The aft corner steering locations on a cruising cat eliminate a whole quadrant of visibility. With the speeds of a Gunboat, we feel strongly that 360 degree visibility is essential to safe sailing. Our central helm on the new 55 and 60, allows full visibility, including to leeward, and great view of all of the sails.

 

Dan, good luck with your Outremer. I hope to meet you some day, and have the opportunity to win you over to Gunboat. In the meantime, enjoy yourself to the fullest on your cat. Good luck with the launch.

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:-) Indeed, good luck with the new Boats, I'm sure they will be spectacular. For the record you should know that Outremer have had nothing at all bad to say about GB, the thoughts I wrote about China, and company risk are my own - I did read up on the various news stories when you moved and spoke to various people in the industry. I spoke about this at length with Bob, and I'm sure any prospect you have will ask similar questions. Your public words here are honestly much clearer than Bob's were on the phone. I'm sure I'll meet you at some point - in the meantime keep up the passion for your product, it will serve you and the company well I think.

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Dan, thank you. Wish I had the chance to speak directly with you. Our experience with the Outremer folks is positive as well. I like them, and they are important for our market segment. Look forward to crossing paths or tacks with you soon.

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Whoa whoa whoa! C'mon guys. Take it elsewhere. This isn't the place for positive, reasoned and educated debate with mutual respect for one another. Some of us are trying to share pictures of boobies and troll one another.

 

Just joking.

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funny soma .. made me laugh

 

thor

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Dan360, do you expect to be in the Caribbean this winter? Come play. We expect to be in the C600 and Heineken on a GB62. It'd be great to have some non-GB competition as well.

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Dan360, do you expect to be in the Caribbean this winter? Come play. We expect to be in the C600 and Heineken on a GB62. It'd be great to have some non-GB competition as well.

 

Possibly - will arrive in the Caribbean early Feb all being well, will PM you once we have more specific plans.

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Of course you are not wrong. http://results.vg/he...ite?series_id=7

Check the results: 2010 St. Maarten Heineken Race 3. Coco de mer, gunboat elapsed 2:50:38; Gazelle, gunboat elapsed 2:47:58; Safari, gunboat elapsed 2:59:58, Cool Cat 1, Etincelle, elapsed time 2:16:56. Just sayin' ;o)

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't better sailor+faster boat=elapsed time victory? Just sayin'.

 

(Keep in mind, every GB 62 & 66 is a live aboard, too.)

 

I've been aboard the Etincelle, it's a great boat, and I've met the owners in question, super nice people. I actually inadvertently owe them an apology. I protested another boat at Heineken a couple of years ago. It was upheld and as a result we got first, bumping the Etincelle out of first. They seemed unaware at the prize giving of all the protest room drama, and they were all set to go receive their trophy. Innocent victims who sailed a great regatta. Like I said, though, nice people. So if you're reading the boards, sorry. Come back and race again. I hope we didn't turn you off racing in the Cariibean...

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I wonder if possibly you are confusing another boat, Fat Cat, with Cool Cat 1? Fat Cat has raced the Heineken and I believe also raced Antigua. Cool Cat 1 is the etincelle and has never raced Antigua or any other Caribbean event since 2009. See race results for 2010 Heinekin, St. Maarten http://results.vg/he...te?series_id=7. We started the race five minutes after the gunboats, not before and didn't beat any in race one. Race two we beat Safari and in race 3 we beat all the gunboats. Sorry. :o We might have done better if we had a new main to go with our new jib, but we did what we could with our 12 year old delaminated one and the 3/4 hoist roller furling gennaker that the boat came with for a downwind sail. We could point higher and sail faster upwind, but downwind was a no contest for the gunboats with their full complement of downwind sails. Just wanted to set the record straight. :)

 

Kathryn Garlick

owner and skipper

Cool Cat 1

Etincelle

Thanks Speng for comments. I will send Scot some recent pics of the new 60 to put on the front page. They may change your mind about our appearance.....

 

Bush, if you look up old St Maarten Heineken results, you will see Etincelle performance. She was not up to the hype. Gunboats showed much better elapsed times. The Gunboat class would start five minutes after the Etincelle and pass her within the first few miles of each race, usually finishing 1-2 minutes a mile quicker. In 2011, we raced one at Antigua too, I believe, and it was not a factor at all.

 

With smaller cats, the carbon skins have less advantage due to impact requirements and needed skin thickness. Once you are over 50', all advantages go to carbon. The strength required for the skins already gives you the impact resistance. Woven carbon is about as good as it gets for impact resistance. In nearly two million Gunboat sea miles, we have had two Gunboats impact submerged containers at speed. Both Gunboats came away with minor sacrificial bow damage and were able to complete their ocean crossings with no concerns.

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For anyone that wanted to click on the link, its broken because of the period, if you click on it, then edit the "." from the end, then you'll get the results.

 

While I'm on links - here's a cool new video of the 5X by Voiles the french sailing magazine

 

They quote her at sailing here at 18 kts, and show 14+ on the video.

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Sadly interesting that most of the nice new boats that are actually being developed and SOLD are, how shall we say, for a market segment that only a tiny percentage of humanity will ever attain. Used to be the old formula of a monthly "car payment" would get you a good, fast new boat, but even the F-22 looks like it is going to cost as much as a very expensive car indeed. How many young working stiffs can afford that nowadays? And can any of us name a newly developed and built multi that goes out the door, ready to sail for less than sixty, eighty, 100 K? Except for a few beachcats like the carbon 20 (and how many of us can justify that kind of cash for a beachcat?) or an A cat that will be obsolete next year.... Looks like there are more people that can comfortably afford a new Gunboat than a reasonably priced middle class hot rod (if one were to exist)

 

waaaaaa.......

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I know it's a bit off topic but will we at some stage see the Gunboat interpretation of a large cruiser/racer trimaran? Obviously it would not offer the cruising accomodation of a catamaran and would probably be a niche only product but I for one would love to see what you guys could come up with.

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I'll stand by my earlier assertion, that if the boat is faster and the sailor is better, then the elapsed time victory should follow. See below.

 

Race 1

Gazelle 4:28 (1)

Coco 4:49 (2)

Safari 5:05 (3)

Cool Cat 5:09 (4)

 

Race 2

Coco 1:40 (1)

Gazelle 1:41 (2)

Cool Cat 1:49 (3)

Safari 1:52 (4)

 

Race 3

Cool Cat 2:17 (1)

Coco 2:50 (2)

Gazelle 2:47 (3)

Safari 3:00 (4)

 

Totals:

Coco=5

Gazelle=6

Cool Cat=8

Safari=11

 

1 victory out of 3 races isn't bad, but it isn't a disproof. I'll grant that you are a better sailor than the collection of charter boat captains you were up against. I'm one of them (now) and I have no clue what I'm doing. I'm no better than the other GB captains above.

 

So on an elapsed time head to head race, that's a podium finish. What I find interesting is how your scoreline improved. Last, 3rd, 1st. So...based on that...can we expect you guys to come back? Hopefully you'll have a better sail wardrobe...loser buys the greenies.

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Absolutely smoked the gunboats in the third race with cruising sail inventory. I'd like to know what the wind speeds were but I bet it was super light in the first race. That said You and pj owe an apology for lying about the gunboats relative performance.

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You and pj owe an apology for lying about the gunboats relative performance.

 

Bull Gator, I don't know why you can't play nice and insist on constantly needling the situation. There isn't a single lie I've told. The "faster" boat with the "better" sailor lost 2 out of 3 races, to the "slower" boats with the "lesser" charter boat crews. That's factual. Explain that. How is that a lie?

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Um in one of your posts you said it wasn't even close to being as fast as a gunboat then we see that it beat all gunboats in race 3 by a wide margin and was close in the other two. Pj is worse he said they started from behind sailed through by them routinely and was tied up and in port long before they finished. Put a full set of racing sails like (sp?) or cream on the boat and it wouldn't be close the other way around.

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Bull... let it rest...

Kathryn is an excellent and competitive sailor, so are the teams on the Gunboats.

We all know that one race isnt enough to proove a point. Sailing has so many variables, which makes it so interesting as well.

 

What happened in those 5 minutes of waiting for the start with the wind? Did the Gunboats raced themselves and did some tactical stuff to cover ? and win their class ? Instead of going all out ?

 

I remember some years back for whatever reason I was overproportional luck on a low wind race with a 4 ksb with 30 !!! year old sails, beat the go fast raceboats with new racing sails .... creamed them actually.... sooo what ?

 

We all envy both boats and all the crews who race them.

 

thor

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True I got the chance to go on cream in wpb and it's a killer boat. I just hate designers who put down other designs and use material misstatements (lies) to do so. Just looking at the enticelle you can see it's a a much lighter boat. Anyway I think it's fair to say that in the case of these boats the gunboat vs enticelle performance comes down to sail inventory and conditions and that overall they have similar performance characteristics.

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I actually remember that 3rd race in question. It was a big breeze day, 20-25 with big gusts. It was a real short beat followed by a broad reach, to a close reach, to a close reach. We started at 10am and we were off the water by noon on my F40. That was a fun day. I got wasted that day. I guess that's what happens when you drink from noon til 3am. I'll try to post a video from that day. The sailing part, not the drunkenness.

 

I think we can all agree that the Etincelle is a great boat. "Significantly faster than a GB"? No, not even sorta. Significantly slower, no. The Outremer 5x will also be a quick boat.

 

Internet forum battles won't decide anything, though. So I say we adjourn this debate and settle it on the water this spring.

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This is a clip from Day 3 at Heineken 2010 on my boat. Cool Cat was in our division that year. Though we didn't see them much on the racecourse, it was a good battle for points on corrected.

 

This clip is from last week on the Gunboat. Not a legendary day, just a bit better than average. My wife put the clip together as a "present" for the guests. The music serves to show the contrast between the experience inside and on the aft deck, vs actually sailing it.

 

This clip is unedited. Just a fun clip from a fantastic day. We topped 28 several times that day. This was one of the few times we were all awake and on deck, but it was generally one person on watch, autopilot happily in charge. The boat was totally under control and comfortable. 335 miles in 24 hrs

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Cool,

 

I guess you didn't know how the enticelle was doing because you were so far ahead. I remember seeing another formula 40 tuku? In WLIS that thing was just ridiculously fast. Nice ride...

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This is a clip from Day 3 at Heineken 2010 on my boat. Cool Cat was in our division that year. Though we didn't see them much on the racecourse, it was a good battle for points on corrected.

 

 

You didn't see anyone much on the racecourse! You were so far gone we could not even use you as a guide to find the next mark! It was impressive to watch you go.

We too were flying a hull several times, which made some of the crew nervous, but it was fun! As for the battle for points, glad you enjoyed it. I was so frustrated with the whole daily rating dance, I picked up my toys and left never to enter a Heineken race again. I at least was able to learn how our boat stacked up against the gunboats which was my main reason for doing that race. It is no gunboat, but I am still very happy with it. Thank you for the apology, but none was needed from you about ratings. We were aware they had changed our rating every day and three times after all the races were over. I never went to collect any trophy, although I believe one of my more tolerant crew did make an appearance on behalf of Cool Cat.

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Great thread loving all the comments. There is no denying that the GB have really bought another level to the performance multi arena. They have some super concepts and are very well built, I have been onboard a few and have friends that have run some). I do find the comments Peter about safety a little contradicting as you say there are times you'd like to be able to hide inside away from the wind and weather. From my experience onboard performance multis there is no more important time to be outside and in touch with the elements. It's at this time when winds change, apparent angles increase and apparent wind speeds shoot through the roof. I think the inside helming on any performance boat is not a safe option. Not sure if you've read the article about the Chris White that was capsized but it was exactly this that help produce the ingrediants for it. I love the GB's but have to say the square look of the cabins and slab sides turn me off a little, different strokes for different folks.

 

Great boats Peter but how about one that has some nicer lines and that looks like thought has gone into the cabin design (I'm sure it has) as my old man always said it costs the same to build and ugly boat as it does a beautiful one.

 

If I had all the money in the world I'd be getting myself one of these.

 

http://www.aeroyacht.../aeroyacht-121/

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Great thread loving all the comments. There is no denying that the GB have really bought another level to the performance multi arena. They have some super concepts and are very well built, I have been onboard a few and have friends that have run some). I do find the comments Peter about safety a little contradicting as you say there are times you'd like to be able to hide inside away from the wind and weather. From my experience onboard performance multis there is no more important time to be outside and in touch with the elements. It's at this time when winds change, apparent angles increase and apparent wind speeds shoot through the roof. I think the inside helming on any performance boat is not a safe option. Not sure if you've read the article about the Chris White that was capsized but it was exactly this that help produce the ingrediants for it. I love the GB's but have to say the square look of the cabins and slab sides turn me off a little, different strokes for different folks.

 

Great boats Peter but how about one that has some nicer lines and that looks like thought has gone into the cabin design (I'm sure it has) as my old man always said it costs the same to build and ugly boat as it does a beautiful one.

 

If I had all the money in the world I'd be getting myself one of these.

 

http://www.aeroyacht.../aeroyacht-121/

 

 

Gooday 'trispirit'

 

I agree with what Peter has to say about - there being times you would like to be inside - mostly I agree with him because I've been there - done that. 45 kts & above - spray, rain & at 6 degrees - temp & chill factor plus 10 mtr seas - - Yea RIGHT you stay outside - cautiously reefed down I can run (& have done so) a yacht - without suffering 'hypothermia' thanks anyway.

'tris' - I'll let you stand my watch & I'll go inside - - after having done some reefing & safety checks & keep monitoring the conditions - from behind the 'glass' watching everything & with another very experienced senior crew member standing right beside me.

 

I'm sure there are many more than me - that would like yo have - say 6 x 'Phaedo's for the price of the mamoth boat plus 15 crew - you have mentioned - which is not relavent - not one little bit. I"m aware that the suggested price of 'Phaedo' was said to be - - north of $4m USD - but if that 'aeroyacht' cost anyhting under $42m USD I'll have to stop building yachts & go back to farming.

 

You 'think (??) that indoor helming of a performance multihull (or mono - for that matter) is not safe option. Yes - there is much to be said - but - a non functioning person in charge is totally usless. A totally numb person in charge - should have been relieved of his poosition some time ago - before he gets somone hurt ! ! ! So - 'tris' how many miles have you clocked up in these condition that you're speeking about ??? The Atlantic - The Pacific - Cyclons - Typhons, big seas of Japan (like 80' plus or Force 5 - whatever you want to call them - how can you advise us to best cope with them ??? Any real experience you have - at the coal-face - will I'm sure help to save some of our lives, mine included. I'm sure looking forward to reading & writting down what you have to say. Thanks, ciao, james

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Great thread loving all the comments. There is no denying that the GB have really bought another level to the performance multi arena. They have some super concepts and are very well built, I have been onboard a few and have friends that have run some). I do find the comments Peter about safety a little contradicting as you say there are times you'd like to be able to hide inside away from the wind and weather. From my experience onboard performance multis there is no more important time to be outside and in touch with the elements. It's at this time when winds change, apparent angles increase and apparent wind speeds shoot through the roof. I think the inside helming on any performance boat is not a safe option. Not sure if you've read the article about the Chris White that was capsized but it was exactly this that help produce the ingrediants for it. I love the GB's but have to say the square look of the cabins and slab sides turn me off a little, different strokes for different folks.

 

Great boats Peter but how about one that has some nicer lines and that looks like thought has gone into the cabin design (I'm sure it has) as my old man always said it costs the same to build and ugly boat as it does a beautiful one.

 

If I had all the money in the world I'd be getting myself one of these.

 

http://www.aeroyacht.../aeroyacht-121/

 

 

Gooday 'trispirit'

 

I agree with what Peter has to say about - there being times you would like to be inside - mostly I agree with him because I've been there - done that. 45 kts & above - spray, rain & at 6 degrees - temp & chill factor plus 10 mtr seas - - Yea RIGHT you stay outside - cautiously reefed down I can run (& have done so) a yacht - without suffering 'hypothermia' thanks anyway.

'tris' - I'll let you stand my watch & I'll go inside - - after having done some reefing & safety checks & keep monitoring the conditions - from behind the 'glass' watching everything & with another very experienced senior crew member standing right beside me.

 

I'm sure there are many more than me - that would like yo have - say 6 x 'Phaedo's for the price of the mamoth boat plus 15 crew - you have mentioned - which is not relavent - not one little bit. I"m aware that the suggested price of 'Phaedo' was said to be - - north of $4m USD - but if that 'aeroyacht' cost anyhting under $42m USD I'll have to stop building yachts & go back to farming.

 

You 'think (??) that indoor helming of a performance multihull (or mono - for that matter) is not safe option. Yes - there is much to be said - but - a non functioning person in charge is totally usless. A totally numb person in charge - should have been relieved of his poosition some time ago - before he gets somone hurt ! ! ! So - 'tris' how many miles have you clocked up in these condition that you're speeking about ??? The Atlantic - The Pacific - Cyclons - Typhons, big seas of Japan (like 80' plus or Force 5 - whatever you want to call them - how can you advise us to best cope with them ??? Any real experience you have - at the coal-face - will I'm sure help to save some of our lives, mine included. I'm sure looking forward to reading & writting down what you have to say. Thanks, ciao, james

 

Hey cranky raven,think you might be surprised with how many miles and the variety of boats and conditions that that my mate trispirit has experiance in.Maybe you need to check your meds or something your pretty ready to start a blue these days.Chill dude:)

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Great thread loving all the comments. There is no denying that the GB have really bought another level to the performance multi arena. They have some super concepts and are very well built, I have been onboard a few and have friends that have run some). I do find the comments Peter about safety a little contradicting as you say there are times you'd like to be able to hide inside away from the wind and weather. From my experience onboard performance multis there is no more important time to be outside and in touch with the elements. It's at this time when winds change, apparent angles increase and apparent wind speeds shoot through the roof. I think the inside helming on any performance boat is not a safe option. Not sure if you've read the article about the Chris White that was capsized but it was exactly this that help produce the ingrediants for it. I love the GB's but have to say the square look of the cabins and slab sides turn me off a little, different strokes for different folks.

 

Great boats Peter but how about one that has some nicer lines and that looks like thought has gone into the cabin design (I'm sure it has) as my old man always said it costs the same to build and ugly boat as it does a beautiful one.

 

If I had all the money in the world I'd be getting myself one of these.

 

http://www.aeroyacht.../aeroyacht-121/

 

 

Gooday 'trispirit'

 

I agree with what Peter has to say about - there being times you would like to be inside - mostly I agree with him because I've been there - done that. 45 kts & above - spray, rain & at 6 degrees - temp & chill factor plus 10 mtr seas - - Yea RIGHT you stay outside - cautiously reefed down I can run (& have done so) a yacht - without suffering 'hypothermia' thanks anyway.

'tris' - I'll let you stand my watch & I'll go inside - - after having done some reefing & safety checks & keep monitoring the conditions - from behind the 'glass' watching everything & with another very experienced senior crew member standing right beside me.

 

I'm sure there are many more than me - that would like yo have - say 6 x 'Phaedo's for the price of the mamoth boat plus 15 crew - you have mentioned - which is not relavent - not one little bit. I"m aware that the suggested price of 'Phaedo' was said to be - - north of $4m USD - but if that 'aeroyacht' cost anyhting under $42m USD I'll have to stop building yachts & go back to farming.

 

You 'think (??) that indoor helming of a performance multihull (or mono - for that matter) is not safe option. Yes - there is much to be said - but - a non functioning person in charge is totally usless. A totally numb person in charge - should have been relieved of his poosition some time ago - before he gets somone hurt ! ! ! So - 'tris' how many miles have you clocked up in these condition that you're speeking about ??? The Atlantic - The Pacific - Cyclons - Typhons, big seas of Japan (like 80' plus or Force 5 - whatever you want to call them - how can you advise us to best cope with them ??? Any real experience you have - at the coal-face - will I'm sure help to save some of our lives, mine included. I'm sure looking forward to reading & writting down what you have to say. Thanks, ciao, james

 

Hey cranky raven,think you might be surprised with how many miles and the variety of boats and conditions that that my mate trispirit has experiance in.Maybe you need to check your meds or something your pretty ready to start a blue these days.Chill dude:)

 

 

Gooday 'aus' I neither want an arguement nor do I need to change my 'meds' nor do I want a 'blu' - what I did ask for was - would he please tell us how he does what he says he has the experience to do - so we can (me included) learn from his experiences. Can't you read that - above ??? If you got anything else out of what I wrote - suggest you change glasses - have a 'sundowner' or 3 & read it again. I'm not cranky - at all - although I'd sure like to give this 'farm-work' a miss & get down to 'Hammo' & do some sailing - sounds like you blokes are going to 'cream-it'

 

What I did ask - was simple & very straingt forward - if you missed it - shit-happens. Suggest you tell sombody that cares - not me. I'll change my 'meds' before going for 'sundowners' & not ask questions of all you people - you're way - way to smart for me. Enjoy your sailing in Hammo & Airley . Go & blow them away & enjoy you drinks - you can have mine - until I get changed. Ciao, james.

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Great thread loving all the comments. There is no denying that the GB have really bought another level to the performance multi arena. They have some super concepts and are very well built, I have been onboard a few and have friends that have run some). I do find the comments Peter about safety a little contradicting as you say there are times you'd like to be able to hide inside away from the wind and weather. From my experience onboard performance multis there is no more important time to be outside and in touch with the elements. It's at this time when winds change, apparent angles increase and apparent wind speeds shoot through the roof. I think the inside helming on any performance boat is not a safe option. Not sure if you've read the article about the Chris White that was capsized but it was exactly this that help produce the ingrediants for it. I love the GB's but have to say the square look of the cabins and slab sides turn me off a little, different strokes for different folks.

 

Great boats Peter but how about one that has some nicer lines and that looks like thought has gone into the cabin design (I'm sure it has) as my old man always said it costs the same to build and ugly boat as it does a beautiful one.

 

If I had all the money in the world I'd be getting myself one of these.

 

http://www.aeroyacht.../aeroyacht-121/

 

 

Gooday 'trispirit'

 

I agree with what Peter has to say about - there being times you would like to be inside - mostly I agree with him because I've been there - done that. 45 kts & above - spray, rain & at 6 degrees - temp & chill factor plus 10 mtr seas - - Yea RIGHT you stay outside - cautiously reefed down I can run (& have done so) a yacht - without suffering 'hypothermia' thanks anyway.

'tris' - I'll let you stand my watch & I'll go inside - - after having done some reefing & safety checks & keep monitoring the conditions - from behind the 'glass' watching everything & with another very experienced senior crew member standing right beside me.

 

I'm sure there are many more than me - that would like yo have - say 6 x 'Phaedo's for the price of the mamoth boat plus 15 crew - you have mentioned - which is not relavent - not one little bit. I"m aware that the suggested price of 'Phaedo' was said to be - - north of $4m USD - but if that 'aeroyacht' cost anyhting under $42m USD I'll have to stop building yachts & go back to farming.

 

You 'think (??) that indoor helming of a performance multihull (or mono - for that matter) is not safe option. Yes - there is much to be said - but - a non functioning person in charge is totally usless. A totally numb person in charge - should have been relieved of his poosition some time ago - before he gets somone hurt ! ! ! So - 'tris' how many miles have you clocked up in these condition that you're speeking about ??? The Atlantic - The Pacific - Cyclons - Typhons, big seas of Japan (like 80' plus or Force 5 - whatever you want to call them - how can you advise us to best cope with them ??? Any real experience you have - at the coal-face - will I'm sure help to save some of our lives, mine included. I'm sure looking forward to reading & writting down what you have to say. Thanks, ciao, james

 

Hey cranky raven,think you might be surprised with how many miles and the variety of boats and conditions that that my mate trispirit has experiance in.Maybe you need to check your meds or something your pretty ready to start a blue these days.Chill dude:)

 

 

Gooday 'aus' I neither want an arguement nor do I need to change my 'meds' nor do I want a 'blu' - what I did ask for was - would he please tell us how he does what he says he has the experience to do - so we can (me included) learn from his experiences. Can't you read that - above ??? If you got anything else out of what I wrote - suggest you change glasses - have a 'sundowner' or 3 & read it again. I'm not cranky - at all - although I'd sure like to give this 'farm-work' a miss & get down to 'Hammo' & do some sailing - sounds like you blokes are going to 'cream-it'

 

What I did ask - was simple & very straingt forward - if you missed it - shit-happens. Suggest you tell sombody that cares - not me. I'll change my 'meds' before going for 'sundowners' & not ask questions of all you people - you're way - way to smart for me. Enjoy your sailing in Hammo & Airley . Go & blow them away & enjoy you drinks - you can have mine - until I get changed. Ciao, james.

 

Bloke you may not get a response from Spirit for a few days as he is somewhere between Tonga and Fiji delivering his 40ft tri from the US to Aus.

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