• Announcements

    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

JaredC

Olson 30's are built pretty darn tough.

75 posts in this topic

Be nice (riiiight... laugh.gif). The skipper had his head firmly inside the boat and the rest of us didn't exactly offer much guidance. Lesson learned by all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jib trimmer is fired. Also whoever had the bright idea to try that mOve with the new boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

did you flag that other boat?... that's one hell of an obstruction...lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

did you flag that other boat?... that's one hell of an obstruction...lol

 

It's one hell of a mark of the course. The CG just recently replaced the old RG "BP" buoy, used as the first weather mark for almost all of our harbor races, with this new daymark. It's a miracle that the thing isn't covered in little bits of sail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Damn lucky they didn't rip any sails. DAMHIKT. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Errrr, You're supposed to sail clear of the race area and do penalty turns after hitting a mark. DOH :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Errrr, You're supposed to sail clear of the race area and do penalty turns after hitting a mark. DOH :blink:

 

You're supposed to watch the rest of the video. I left the 360 in there, played at 4X speed, just for you. cool.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They just fucked up???

Amusing?? Well, I don't know.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jib trimmer is fired. Also whoever had the bright idea to try that mOve with the new boat.

 

+1

 

Probably wouldn't have hit that post if the jib had cleared on the second tack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was it just the limited audio on the GoPro or was everyone on the boat as quiet as it seems in the video? Most boats would have had a screaming festival after (during) a move like that. Just sayin . . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two of us trimming, one releasing and the other one trimming in. On the new tack, as you can see when we come back on to starboard both of us head to port to trim and the sheet was never released properly. I'm not sure if we would have made it (current running right to left at the mark at about 3-4 knots), it didn't help but might have save the sail since the bow man was able to keep it of the mark when it was back winded. Just glad the boat was not damaged other than a few marks on the hull.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be nice (riiiight... laugh.gif). The skipper had his head firmly inside the boat and the rest of us didn't exactly offer much guidance. Lesson learned by all.

 

 

 

Who's the guy you have on board to destroy genoas?

 

He's fucking good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two of us trimming, one releasing and the other one trimming in. On the new tack, as you can see when we come back on to starboard both of us head to port to trim and the sheet was never released properly. I'm not sure if we would have made it (current running right to left at the mark at about 3-4 knots), it didn't help but might have save the sail since the bow man was able to keep it of the mark when it was back winded. Just glad the boat was not damaged other than a few marks on the hull.

 

Justify it all you like.. the Video tells the story, 1st tack was a shocker and boat speed was down, 2nd tack... well you can see the bow continually fall away (You call that a hard tack, bear away) .. Would have cleared it easy had they been 1/2 decent.

 

Not taking a stab at you.. But man up, admit it.. no excuses needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two of us trimming, one releasing and the other one trimming in. On the new tack, as you can see when we come back on to starboard both of us head to port to trim and the sheet was never released properly. I'm not sure if we would have made it (current running right to left at the mark at about 3-4 knots), it didn't help but might have save the sail since the bow man was able to keep it of the mark when it was back winded. Just glad the boat was not damaged other than a few marks on the hull.

 

Justify it all you like.. the Video tells the story, 1st tack was a shocker and boat speed was down, 2nd tack... well you can see the bow continually fall away (You call that a hard tack, bear away) .. Would have cleared it easy had they been 1/2 decent.

 

Not taking a stab at you.. But man up, admit it.. no excuses needed.

 

I guess you didn't read it that well.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two of us trimming, one releasing and the other one trimming in. On the new tack, as you can see when we come back on to starboard both of us head to port to trim and the sheet was never released properly. I'm not sure if we would have made it (current running right to left at the mark at about 3-4 knots), it didn't help but might have save the sail since the bow man was able to keep it of the mark when it was back winded. Just glad the boat was not damaged other than a few marks on the hull.

 

Justify it all you like.. the Video tells the story, 1st tack was a shocker and boat speed was down, 2nd tack... well you can see the bow continually fall away (You call that a hard tack, bear away) .. Would have cleared it easy had they been 1/2 decent.

 

Not taking a stab at you.. But man up, admit it.. no excuses needed.

 

I guess you didn't read it that well.......

 

What was the deal with the first tack?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two of us trimming, one releasing and the other one trimming in. On the new tack, as you can see when we come back on to starboard both of us head to port to trim and the sheet was never released properly. I'm not sure if we would have made it (current running right to left at the mark at about 3-4 knots), it didn't help but might have save the sail since the bow man was able to keep it of the mark when it was back winded. Just glad the boat was not damaged other than a few marks on the hull.

 

Justify it all you like.. the Video tells the story, 1st tack was a shocker and boat speed was down, 2nd tack... well you can see the bow continually fall away (You call that a hard tack, bear away) .. Would have cleared it easy had they been 1/2 decent.

 

Not taking a stab at you.. But man up, admit it.. no excuses needed.

 

I guess you didn't read it that well.......

 

What was the deal with the first tack?

 

 

There was some talk about ducking the J120 but they also were being pulled by the current. We were just in a bad place at the wrong time.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two of us trimming, one releasing and the other one trimming in. On the new tack, as you can see when we come back on to starboard both of us head to port to trim and the sheet was never released properly. I'm not sure if we would have made it (current running right to left at the mark at about 3-4 knots), it didn't help but might have save the sail since the bow man was able to keep it of the mark when it was back winded. Just glad the boat was not damaged other than a few marks on the hull.

 

BP = Boat problem.

 

Was there an asshole on the sheet at the block or in a self tailer? I have never seen anything like that happen ever before anywhere no matter what.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be nice (riiiight... laugh.gif). The skipper had his head firmly inside the boat and the rest of us didn't exactly offer much guidance. Lesson learned by all.

 

Clueless comes to mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be nice (riiiight... laugh.gif). The skipper had his head firmly inside the boat and the rest of us didn't exactly offer much guidance. Lesson learned by all.

 

Clueless comes to mind.

I licke that movee to.....butte donte remeber any saling in it :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two of us trimming, one releasing and the other one trimming in. On the new tack, as you can see when we come back on to starboard both of us head to port to trim and the sheet was never released properly. I'm not sure if we would have made it (current running right to left at the mark at about 3-4 knots), it didn't help but might have save the sail since the bow man was able to keep it of the mark when it was back winded. Just glad the boat was not damaged other than a few marks on the hull.

 

Justify it all you like.. the Video tells the story, 1st tack was a shocker and boat speed was down, 2nd tack... well you can see the bow continually fall away (You call that a hard tack, bear away) .. Would have cleared it easy had they been 1/2 decent.

 

Not taking a stab at you.. But man up, admit it.. no excuses needed.

 

I guess you didn't read it that well.......

 

I read it, The video tells the story without bias.. I just saw excuses. And then an attempt to justify it with "it may have saved the sail" Luck is the only reason that sail didn't rip.. 99.9% of the time it would have exploded!

 

A simple, "I fucked up, how many jugs do I buy?" is all that is needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be nice (riiiight... laugh.gif). The skipper had his head firmly inside the boat and the rest of us didn't exactly offer much guidance. Lesson learned by all.

 

Clueless comes to mind.

I licke that movee to.....butte donte remeber any saling in it :)

I don't call that what they did it that video sailing. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No wonder there were problems; that one trimmer had his cap on BACKWARD!

Prob'ly thought the bow was the stern, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eh looks like charleston sailing as usual. Hitting BP seemed to almost be a pasttime for some of the boats there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's what I'm gonna do.................Post a video of me, fucking up big time, in my new boat slamming a mark after some really por boat and sail handling. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

That should only have been used in a post race debrief, ;) on how not to ever do it again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The audio is accurate. Screamers don't get invited back...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The guy who grabbed the boom at least twice that I saw needs to be banished to lasers for at least a year. Does not know anything about sailing. I don't do that shit on 70's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Errrr, You're supposed to sail clear of the race area and do penalty turns after hitting a mark. DOH :blink:

Errhh WRONG. You simply have to be clear of any other boat as you have not right of way while you are doing your turn. Don't pontificate on rules if you don't understand them

 

As for the rest... I didn't see a decent jib trim RELEASE in the whole sequence.

 

And WTF is the guy doing on the bow during the hoist? Put the end of the pole on the lifelines. That way as toppy goes up the pole doesn't get trapped. THE ONLY time Fdeck should actually be forward of the hatch is in pulling down the #1 or #2 and refeeding it into the feeder (leave the #3 up with the kite)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good on you for posting it. Remember these things are viral and take on a life of their own. We race (and are friends) with a boat that has the girl from the infamous Capri25 vid as crew. Every now and then, someone comes buy and says 'I've got NOTHING! I've got NOTHING'!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be nice (riiiight... laugh.gif). The skipper had his head firmly inside the boat and the rest of us didn't exactly offer much guidance. Lesson learned by all.

 

Clueless comes to mind.

 

+1000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

....gotta say it's pretty humble of you t'post such a video,

,,,I'll bet most times something like that happens on go-pro,shortly after you hear a little 'splash' ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After a hit like that, I would do a very thorough inspection of the rig. Shrouds, forestay, backstay, spreaders, tangs, chainplates, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok everyone. 1st, props to the post for our enjoyment and ridicule. I'm sure he knew the ass ripping that would accur posting that here. 2nd, I've sailed w/the guy who owns this boat, (not on this boat w/him but his previous boat) and he's pretty new to this stuff. This was his first race on this boat and probably the 3rd time actually sailing it. He bought it and went straight to the trailer for a huge deck re-coring project that he did on his own and did a great job. This weekend he was lovingly fixing the toe rail from this hit. Yes, he put himself in a bad position, yes-the tacks sucked from a trim and driver perspective. However, they'll be back at it tomorrow and will continue trying. Guess what? People like this getting into it is how our sport GROWS assholes!!!!! We're not ALL Dennis Conners from the first minute we begin sailing and if we all waited to be that good before getting on the race course the starting lines would be much, much thinner.

 

Big props for not fouling another boat. All the damamge was self inflicted and self contained to them and the new channel marker. If you're gonna fuck up try not to fuck someone else up in the process and they did that well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Props for posting the vid, that takes so humility. Having said that, sometines someone needs to scream "watch the mark".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1343737725[/url]' post='3807146']

Ok everyone. 1st, props to the post for our enjoyment and ridicule. I'm sure he knew the ass ripping that would accur posting that here. 2nd, I've sailed w/the guy who owns this boat, (not on this boat w/him but his previous boat) and he's pretty new to this stuff. This was his first race on this boat and probably the 3rd time actually sailing it. He bought it and went straight to the trailer for a huge deck re-coring project that he did on his own and did a great job. This weekend he was lovingly fixing the toe rail from this hit. Yes, he put himself in a bad position, yes-the tacks sucked from a trim and driver perspective. However, they'll be back at it tomorrow and will continue trying. Guess what? People like this getting into it is how our sport GROWS assholes!!!!! We're not ALL Dennis Conners from the first minute we begin sailing and if we all waited to be that good before getting on the race course the starting lines would be much, much thinner.

 

Big props for not fouling another boat. All the damamge was self inflicted and self contained to them and the new channel marker. If you're gonna fuck up try not to fuck someone else up in the process and they did that well.

 

I bet that any post here that was ragging on the owner has in the past either done as bad or worse. It is not if you are going to fall in, but when are you. It is easy to call the owner an idiot when one is sitting hidden behind a computer.Then there are those that will admit that they have screwed up and can laugh with the owner, instead of at him.where are you? Nobody was hurt.. That's all that counts. And yes Olson30s are tough boats, they were built by craftsmen not some illegal and a chop gun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RobbieB is my hero. Why didn't you come out for our drift-fest today?

 

Some of you clearly need to go sailing more often; you'll probably do something dumb at some point, and when it happens, I hope you have the ability to laugh about it the way I/we do. I learned something from the experience - next time I won't assume that the guys in the back of the boat have a good plan. laugh.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good on you for posting it. Remember these things are viral and take on a life of their own. We race (and are friends) with a boat that has the girl from the infamous Capri25 vid as crew. Every now and then, someone comes buy and says 'I've got NOTHING! I've got NOTHING'!

 

That deserves a re-post.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RobbieB is my hero. Why didn't you come out for our drift-fest today?

 

Some of you clearly need to go sailing more often; you'll probably do something dumb at some point, and when it happens, I hope you have the ability to laugh about it the way I/we do. I learned something from the experience - next time I won't assume that the guys in the back of the boat have a good plan. laugh.gif

 

Kudos. I love that you had the humility and balls to post that little oopsie vid. I'm presently boatless myself and wasn't a racer when I had my last boat, and when I'm finally able to once again get out there on my own boat, I've toyed with thoughts of trying my hand with some casual racing. I gotta tell you though, the merciless assripping you took on this thread really, really turns me off to opening myself up to this abuse and makes me wonder if it's worth it. I gotta say, if I fucked up and put myself in a bad spot like you found yourself, I probably would have done the same thing and kissed the mark rather than risking hitting or fouling another boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice work Jared. Front page, here ya come!

 

Damn, I miss Charleston on a nice summer night

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice work Jared. Front page, here ya come!

 

Damn, I miss Charleston on a nice summer night

 

Then you've been missing us every night this summer. Tuesday's are Patriots Point CofC 420 racing with post race chats by Greg Fisher. Wednesday's CORA PHRF bouy races in the harbor and Thursday's "run what'cha brung" racing off the dock at JIYC. Of course the summer open series at JIYC, ChYC and CYC this past weekend.....I hate living here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice work Jared. Front page, here ya come!

 

Damn, I miss Charleston on a nice summer night

 

Then you've been missing us every night this summer. Tuesday's are Patriots Point CofC 420 racing with post race chats by Greg Fisher. Wednesday's CORA PHRF bouy races in the harbor and Thursday's "run what'cha brung" racing off the dock at JIYC. Of course the summer open series at JIYC, ChYC and CYC this past weekend.....I hate living here.

 

Yes, it's awful, I've only managed to race sailboats 2 nights a week this summer (on average).

 

Clean - you should make a trip down for one of our Tuesday night 420 battles before the season ends. It's like adult bumper boats, with some "proper course" screaming thrown in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice work Jared. Front page, here ya come!

 

Damn, I miss Charleston on a nice summer night

 

Then you've been missing us every night this summer. Tuesday's are Patriots Point CofC 420 racing with post race chats by Greg Fisher. Wednesday's CORA PHRF bouy races in the harbor and Thursday's "run what'cha brung" racing off the dock at JIYC. Of course the summer open series at JIYC, ChYC and CYC this past weekend.....I hate living here.

 

Yes, it's awful, I've only managed to race sailboats 2 nights a week this summer (on average).

 

Clean - you should make a trip down for one of our Tuesday night 420 battles before the season ends. It's like adult bumper boats, with some "proper course" screaming thrown in.

 

 

It's a real spectator sport. One time I got so sandwiched into a leeward mark pinwheel rounding with 6 boats that I just let go of the tiller and let the group spin me around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice work Jared. Front page, here ya come!

 

Damn, I miss Charleston on a nice summer night

 

Then you've been missing us every night this summer. Tuesday's are Patriots Point CofC 420 racing with post race chats by Greg Fisher. Wednesday's CORA PHRF bouy races in the harbor and Thursday's "run what'cha brung" racing off the dock at JIYC. Of course the summer open series at JIYC, ChYC and CYC this past weekend.....I hate living here.

 

Yes, it's awful, I've only managed to race sailboats 2 nights a week this summer (on average).

 

Clean - you should make a trip down for one of our Tuesday night 420 battles before the season ends. It's like adult bumper boats, with some "proper course" screaming thrown in.

 

 

It's a real spectator sport. One time I got so sandwiched into a leeward mark pinwheel rounding with 6 boats that I just let go of the tiller and let the group spin me around.

 

You're learning.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I bet that any post here that was ragging on the owner has in the past either done as bad or worse.

 

I have a feeling most of the folks slagging the video have not hit a fixed government mark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BP gets it's share of customers. A few weeks ago a J24 left a chunk of it hull there. Punched a hole right through the boat just in front of the stbd forward bulkhead. Looked like someone whacked it out with a hatchet. Sails meet their demise there too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BP was much harder to hit when it floated around at the end of a mooring chain...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey!!!! You scratched my Channel marker...........:ph34r:

 

Someone had to say it....... :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1343838476[/url]' post='3808797']
1343775848[/url]' post='3807957']I bet that any post here that was ragging on the owner has in the past either done as bad or worse.

 

I have a feeling most of the folks slagging the video have not hit a fixed government mark.

 

Probably not a government owned, but let's see above water rocks, below water rocks, gone aground, hitting docks, other boats, sleeping whales, and then there are those pesky government owned buoys, they just pop up out of nowhere, bridges and where do you want to me to stop? I'm starting to get a cramp in my fingers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That was lame! Who does that???

 

Committee boats are better targets :blink:

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was driving, so I'm the asshole and this was my first (and hopefully last) time to hit a governement mark (inflatable race marks are another matter). The poor crew were at my mercy, but I think they did about as much as they could- even Drew for backing the jib. True, the boat parked rather quickly (the wind tanking made sure of that), but if he hadn't and if Jared hadn't gathered the genoa, it would likely have been shredded on the mark. A combination of things happened that were new to me- new boat, a genoa with no window blocking the J120, so I tacked back too early and of course hit the mark. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly that current will move a boat sideways, and when there's essentially twice the surface area on the O-30 than on a J-24, it takes over faster. I just wasn't ready for that one, but I know now! Anyway, as Rob says- the boat (and rig) are fine. The audio sounds a lot worse than it actually was- although it definitely gave me the creeps at the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was driving, so I'm the asshole and this was my first (and hopefully last) time to hit a governement mark (inflatable race marks are another matter). The poor crew were at my mercy, but I think they did about as much as they could- even Drew for backing the jib. True, the boat parked rather quickly (the wind tanking made sure of that), but if he hadn't and if Jared hadn't gathered the genoa, it would likely have been shredded on the mark. A combination of things happened that were new to me- new boat, a genoa with no window blocking the J120, so I tacked back too early and of course hit the mark. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly that current will move a boat sideways, and when there's essentially twice the surface area on the O-30 than on a J-24, it takes over faster. I just wasn't ready for that one, but I know now! Anyway, as Rob says- the boat (and rig) are fine. The audio sounds a lot worse than it actually was- although it definitely gave me the creeps at the time.

I would put this under the "excrement occurs" heading and be glad no one was hurt. Any sailors here living in glass houses (like me especially) hopefully know better than to throw rocks.

Stuff happens fast on a race course. All decisions aren't going to be good ones.

Good luck in your future racing!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was driving, so I'm the asshole and this was my first (and hopefully last) time to hit a governement mark (inflatable race marks are another matter). The poor crew were at my mercy, but I think they did about as much as they could- even Drew for backing the jib. True, the boat parked rather quickly (the wind tanking made sure of that), but if he hadn't and if Jared hadn't gathered the genoa, it would likely have been shredded on the mark. A combination of things happened that were new to me- new boat, a genoa with no window blocking the J120, so I tacked back too early and of course hit the mark. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly that current will move a boat sideways, and when there's essentially twice the surface area on the O-30 than on a J-24, it takes over faster. I just wasn't ready for that one, but I know now! Anyway, as Rob says- the boat (and rig) are fine. The audio sounds a lot worse than it actually was- although it definitely gave me the creeps at the time.

 

You are not the first driver to discover that not hitting shit is job-one, two, and three the hard way.

 

I used to look at what the crew is doing too much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was driving, so I'm the asshole and this was my first (and hopefully last) time to hit a governement mark (inflatable race marks are another matter). The poor crew were at my mercy, but I think they did about as much as they could- even Drew for backing the jib. True, the boat parked rather quickly (the wind tanking made sure of that), but if he hadn't and if Jared hadn't gathered the genoa, it would likely have been shredded on the mark. A combination of things happened that were new to me- new boat, a genoa with no window blocking the J120, so I tacked back too early and of course hit the mark. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly that current will move a boat sideways, and when there's essentially twice the surface area on the O-30 than on a J-24, it takes over faster. I just wasn't ready for that one, but I know now! Anyway, as Rob says- the boat (and rig) are fine. The audio sounds a lot worse than it actually was- although it definitely gave me the creeps at the time.

 

Um if you believe that, then you should take some time with some basic sailing courses. The bolded statement simply is not true.

 

 

You really need to go out and practice... Jib releases in the video suck. There is no reason to have a man on the bow for the hoist, and the boat like the Olson 30 in those conditions should be roll tacking the shit out of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was driving, so I'm the asshole and this was my first (and hopefully last) time to hit a governement mark (inflatable race marks are another matter). The poor crew were at my mercy, but I think they did about as much as they could- even Drew for backing the jib. True, the boat parked rather quickly (the wind tanking made sure of that), but if he hadn't and if Jared hadn't gathered the genoa, it would likely have been shredded on the mark. A combination of things happened that were new to me- new boat, a genoa with no window blocking the J120, so I tacked back too early and of course hit the mark. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly that current will move a boat sideways, and when there's essentially twice the surface area on the O-30 than on a J-24, it takes over faster. I just wasn't ready for that one, but I know now! Anyway, as Rob says- the boat (and rig) are fine. The audio sounds a lot worse than it actually was- although it definitely gave me the creeps at the time.

 

all good reasons to duck the J120 and follow it around the mark, especially when driving some else's new boat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was driving, so I'm the asshole and this was my first (and hopefully last) time to hit a governement mark (inflatable race marks are another matter). The poor crew were at my mercy, but I think they did about as much as they could- even Drew for backing the jib. True, the boat parked rather quickly (the wind tanking made sure of that), but if he hadn't and if Jared hadn't gathered the genoa, it would likely have been shredded on the mark. A combination of things happened that were new to me- new boat, a genoa with no window blocking the J120, so I tacked back too early and of course hit the mark. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly that current will move a boat sideways, and when there's essentially twice the surface area on the O-30 than on a J-24, it takes over faster. I just wasn't ready for that one, but I know now! Anyway, as Rob says- the boat (and rig) are fine. The audio sounds a lot worse than it actually was- although it definitely gave me the creeps at the time.

 

all good reasons to duck the J120 and follow it around the mark, especially when driving some else's new boat

 

It's actually my boat, and yes- I will duck the J120 next time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BP was much harder to hit when it floated around at the end of a mooring chain...

 

 

But it was metal back then. Scarred the crap out of me in a big current. At least in hitting wood, the noise is not so bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BP was much harder to hit when it floated around at the end of a mooring chain...

 

 

But it was metal back then. Scarred the crap out of me in a big current. At least in hitting wood, the noise is not so bad.

 

Good point. It also left big nasty red marks on your gelcoat.

 

Glad to see you found SA, Ray.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was driving, so I'm the asshole and this was my first (and hopefully last) time to hit a governement mark (inflatable race marks are another matter). The poor crew were at my mercy, but I think they did about as much as they could- even Drew for backing the jib. True, the boat parked rather quickly (the wind tanking made sure of that), but if he hadn't and if Jared hadn't gathered the genoa, it would likely have been shredded on the mark. A combination of things happened that were new to me- new boat, a genoa with no window blocking the J120, so I tacked back too early and of course hit the mark. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly that current will move a boat sideways, and when there's essentially twice the surface area on the O-30 than on a J-24, it takes over faster. I just wasn't ready for that one, but I know now! Anyway, as Rob says- the boat (and rig) are fine. The audio sounds a lot worse than it actually was- although it definitely gave me the creeps at the time.

 

Major props to ya Ray. If I can get my sorry ass back down there before summer's out maybe you'll let me come for a ride ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BP was much harder to hit when it floated around at the end of a mooring chain...

 

 

But it was metal back then. Scarred the crap out of me in a big current. At least in hitting wood, the noise is not so bad.

 

Good point. It also left big nasty red marks on your gelcoat.

 

Glad to see you found SA, Ray.

 

Our I-14 still has a lovely red scar on it from the buoy off patriots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was driving, so I'm the asshole and this was my first (and hopefully last) time to hit a governement mark (inflatable race marks are another matter). The poor crew were at my mercy, but I think they did about as much as they could- even Drew for backing the jib. True, the boat parked rather quickly (the wind tanking made sure of that), but if he hadn't and if Jared hadn't gathered the genoa, it would likely have been shredded on the mark. A combination of things happened that were new to me- new boat, a genoa with no window blocking the J120, so I tacked back too early and of course hit the mark. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly that current will move a boat sideways, and when there's essentially twice the surface area on the O-30 than on a J-24, it takes over faster. I just wasn't ready for that one, but I know now! Anyway, as Rob says- the boat (and rig) are fine. The audio sounds a lot worse than it actually was- although it definitely gave me the creeps at the time.

 

Um if you believe that, then you should take some time with some basic sailing courses. The bolded statement simply is not true.

 

 

Oh, (waves hand frantically in the air from the back row) please, please, please, can we discuss the lee-bow current effect for while now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, (waves hand frantically in the air from the back row) please, please, please, can we discuss the lee-bow current effect for while now?

 

Please- never heard of that one before... There were no windward boats close enough to us to generate a lee bow effect. All that really happened is the wind died a bit, and we got swept into the mark.

 

Edit: just read this- http://www.j105.org/docs/noleebow.pdf

 

Our case was just a simple matter of trying get around the mark in a dying wind. We were actually lifted for a bit (and as most of you guys know- you're praying it lasts until you get to the mark, which it hardly ever does), then as the wind died you can see us drifting below as the current took over- albeit, gently. This all was a slow-motion bump into an oyster-encrusted pile. Granted- I'm an idiot for not having the experience to time it correctly. I've had similar situations in J24's, and as long as I had enough steam, could luff up and around the mark-- it just didn't work out this day with this boat. I'm not sure a lee bow effect can be generated with current, though..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... ...

 

Our case was just a simple matter of trying get around the mark in a dying wind. We were actually lifted for a bit (and as most of you guys know- you're praying it lasts until you get to the mark, which it hardly ever does), then as the wind died you can see us drifting below as the current took over- albeit, gently. This all was a slow-motion bump into an oyster-encrusted pile. Granted- I'm an idiot for not having the experience to time it correctly. I've had similar situations in J24's, and as long as I had enough steam, could luff up and around the mark-- it just didn't work out this day with this boat. I'm not sure a lee bow effect can be generated with current, though..

 

Sorry, don't take this wrong, but this post shows you have no clue what "lee bow effect" means with regard to current. Lee bow of another boat, yeah, but hey is that CURRENT?!?

 

The issue here is that the current was carrying you below the mark the whole time. WIth a lift+pressure you have forward speed to mask ths, but the current didn't "take over" it was there all the time.

 

It's simply a case of the helmsman not understanding the forces on his vessel, in a situation where cuting it close can have big consequences. Not all your fault, it's not taught very well if at all... but don't dismiss it. Learn.

 

FB- Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... ...

 

Oh, (waves hand frantically in the air from the back row) please, please, please, can we discuss the lee-bow current effect for while now?

 

Sure.

 

Are you for it, or against it?

:rolleyes:

 

FB- DOug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... ...

 

Our case was just a simple matter of trying get around the mark in a dying wind. We were actually lifted for a bit (and as most of you guys know- you're praying it lasts until you get to the mark, which it hardly ever does), then as the wind died you can see us drifting below as the current took over- albeit, gently. This all was a slow-motion bump into an oyster-encrusted pile. Granted- I'm an idiot for not having the experience to time it correctly. I've had similar situations in J24's, and as long as I had enough steam, could luff up and around the mark-- it just didn't work out this day with this boat. I'm not sure a lee bow effect can be generated with current, though..

 

Sorry, don't take this wrong, but this post shows you have no clue what "lee bow effect" means with regard to current. Lee bow of another boat, yeah, but hey is that CURRENT?!?

 

The issue here is that the current was carrying you below the mark the whole time. WIth a lift+pressure you have forward speed to mask ths, but the current didn't "take over" it was there all the time.

 

It's simply a case of the helmsman not understanding the forces on his vessel, in a situation where cuting it close can have big consequences. Not all your fault, it's not taught very well if at all... but don't dismiss it. Learn.

 

FB- Doug

 

Nothing to take wrong- you are correct, I do not know what a "lee bow effect" is with respect to current- I do know how that relates to two boats, one in the other's "crap". I also know the current was there the entire time, but one thing I also realize is that you have competing vectors acting on the boat- one can simply override the other. My point was that as long as the wind was lifting us above the mark, we were fine. When it tanked- the effect of the current "overrode" the effect of the wind. I know I have my own way of making sense of it, but I'm pretty sure that's the way it works. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Screamers don't get invited back...

 

 

Apparently, sailors don't get invited at all ...

 

 

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

 

 

 

+1+1+1+1+1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... ...

 

The issue here is that the current was carrying you below the mark the whole time. WIth a lift+pressure you have forward speed to mask ths, but the current didn't "take over" it was there all the time.

 

...

 

Nothing to take wrong- you are correct, I do not know what a "lee bow effect" is with respect to current- I do know how that relates to two boats, one in the other's "crap". I also know the current was there the entire time, but one thing I also realize is that you have competing vectors acting on the boat- one can simply override the other. My point was that as long as the wind was lifting us above the mark, we were fine. When it tanked- the effect of the current "overrode" the effect of the wind. I know I have my own way of making sense of it, but I'm pretty sure that's the way it works. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I wonder if your bow was aimed above the mark but you were actually traveling either at it or slightly below it all the time... were you looking at the mark, or using a transit on the background behind it?

 

Anyway, the remark above about "the moving carpet effect" is one of the ways to explain current's effect on sailboats. All boats are moving on their course thru the water, at whatever their speed might be, but they are also all riding on a carpet which is being tugged to one side or the other depending on the current. The "Lee Bow Effect" is an old-timey way of saying how it affects their actual course -if- the current is crossing the wind. Here's an illustration:

 

lee-bow-illustration-vectors.jpg

 

When the current is hitting your lee bow, it is boosting you to windward! Or is it? The surest thing to know is that a cross current will definitely affect the laylines.

 

FB- Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if your bow was aimed above the mark but you were actually traveling either at it or slightly below it all the time... were you looking at the mark, or using a transit on the background behind it?

 

Anyway, the remark above about "the moving carpet effect" is one of the ways to explain current's effect on sailboats. All boats are moving on their course thru the water, at whatever their speed might be, but they are also all riding on a carpet which is being tugged to one side or the other depending on the current. The "Lee Bow Effect" is an old-timey way of saying how it affects their actual course -if- the current is crossing the wind. Here's an illustration:

 

lee-bow-illustration-vectors.jpg

 

When the current is hitting your lee bow, it is boosting you to windward! Or is it? The surest thing to know is that a cross current will definitely affect the laylines.

 

FB- Doug

 

From what I remember (the older I get, the quicker it starts to fade, so I'm relying on the video- which I've probably watched 100 times by now..) we were briefly lifted, and we would have probably made it around the mark if the puff had lasted a bit longer. We were sailing a great course from a long ways off- and making good upwind progress being lifted most of the way there. When the wind started to wane, you can see that the current was carrying us below the mark, then we tacked. I understand what you are saying-- the concept isn't really that difficult, and since we've been sailing here pretty regularly for the past 3 yrs, it's almost a no-brainer (almost- my brain was definitely asleep that day, almost literally). When we were a long way off, we could tell that when we were hit by puffs, if they lasted long enough we were being lifted above the mark (not just laying it, but lifted above it). When the puff would subside, we'd get slowly carried below. I just couldn't see around that ginormous genoa and it has no window. I tacked back when my crew warned me that Moose Down (the J120 on starboard coming at us) had their bow sprit out and were closing our distance quickly. We definitely take advantage of a favored tack or side of the race course depending on the current when we can. In this case, we were in the wrong spot at the wrong time. I should have just ducked Moose Down and you guys would never even know what I do and don't understand about sailboat physics. Thank you for the lesson, though!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HA! Glad I didn't talk shit! After carefully studing the lee-bow effect, I decided conditions were perfect to test it out and what do you know??? - Had speed, pointing well but a little ease in pressure and BAM! fn current pushed me right into the mark!

 

It'll buff out... :huh:

 

I need to rethink this lee bow stragity....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok everyone. 1st, props to the post for our enjoyment and ridicule. I'm sure he knew the ass ripping that would accur posting that here. 2nd, I've sailed w/the guy who owns this boat, (not on this boat w/him but his previous boat) and he's pretty new to this stuff. This was his first race on this boat and probably the 3rd time actually sailing it. He bought it and went straight to the trailer for a huge deck re-coring project that he did on his own and did a great job. This weekend he was lovingly fixing the toe rail from this hit. Yes, he put himself in a bad position, yes-the tacks sucked from a trim and driver perspective. However, they'll be back at it tomorrow and will continue trying. Guess what? People like this getting into it is how our sport GROWS assholes!!!!! We're not ALL Dennis Conners from the first minute we begin sailing and if we all waited to be that good before getting on the race course the starting lines would be much, much thinner.

 

Big props for not fouling another boat. All the damamge was self inflicted and self contained to them and the new channel marker. If you're gonna fuck up try not to fuck someone else up in the process and they did that well.

 

 

+1

 

Cheers, Win ever

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites