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Sailing funding

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From ABC.net.au

 

Australia's Olympic gold medal-winning sailing community is angry over plans to cut spending on the sport in the wake of the London Games.

 

The New South Wales Institute of Sport is poised to scrap its sailing program from next year.

 

The decision comes despite the fact that sailing was Australia's stand-out sport at the London Games, with three gold medals and one silver.

 

Seven out of eight of the sailors who won medals at the Games were from New South Wales.

 

The ABC's Mary Gearin says Yachting Australia was told two months ago that the New South Wales Institute of Sport would be dumping its sailing program.

 

Australian businessman Marcus Blackmore, one of the patrons of the sport in Australia, wants the institute to change its mind.

 

"You can see that they've got up here in these Olympics and they will do better again," he told ABC News Breakfast.

 

"The only solution to that is more money and more training and better support.

 

"The sad thing is the New South Wales Institute of Sport is looking at dropping sailing from their program and I think that's really stupid."

 

Yachting Australia's Phil Jones says the proposed spending cut is disappointing.

 

"The key for us is the pathway and the pipeline that brings new athletes ... all the state institute programs are very important in that, so losing the New South Wales Institute is a real concern for us," he said.

 

"But we have a lot of other institute programs and they're doing a fantastic job for us.

 

"We hope that if New South Wales want to revisit that, then we would be delighted."

 

A spokesman for the Institute says there has been discussion about a few sports, including sailing, which is standard procedure every four years.

 

He says no decisions have yet been made.

 

Yachting New South Wales says it is seeking an urgent meeting with the State Government over the possibility of sailing being cut from the budget.

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Why would anyone expect government to fund recreational activities in the first place?

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Are there options for private funding, or is it required to be funded only by the government? Because if there are, then it actually might put them in a better financial situation to go private, it'd be harder to manage the sponsors for sure.

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Where are all you KEEP GOVERNMENT OUT OF OUR LIVES group? Here's your opportunity to opine why government should not be involved in funding an activity such as sailing.

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Where are all you KEEP GOVERNMENT OUT OF OUR LIVES group? Here's your opportunity to opine why government should not be involved in funding an activity such as sailing.

 

Yeah... hence my ealier post #2. Perhaps this thread should be moved to PA :P

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Australian team, Australian funding. Many countries fund their Olympic teams out of public funds. Don't send this to the PA cesspool. Funding for an Olympic Sailing program is a legitimate sailing discussion.

 

I guess the rhythmic gymnastics team complained about not getting a fair go.

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+1

 

Olympics should be strictly limited to purely amateur athletes living normally within a country without any funding from the government (taxpayers).

 

This would eliminate China, Russia, etc. The Olympics are so commercialized and professional now it has become a joke.

 

Look at Phelps. Multi-millionaire. Once you take your first sponsor dollar you should be no longer eligible to participate. Every 4 years a new crop would result as the top athletes would likely take the money. 22 medals would not be possible unless a true athlete decide NOT to take the money and kept going.

 

This is the only way to make the Olympics about the athletes again. And this will never happen...

 

Why would anyone expect government to fund recreational activities in the first place?

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+1

 

Olympics should be strictly limited to purely amateur athletes living normally within a country without any funding from the government (taxpayers).

 

This would eliminate China, Russia, etc. The Olympics are so commercialized and professional now it has become a joke.

 

Look at Phelps. Multi-millionaire. Once you take your first sponsor dollar you should be no longer eligible to participate. Every 4 years a new crop would result as the top athletes would likely take the money. 22 medals would not be possible unless a true athlete decide NOT to take the money and kept going.

 

This is the only way to make the Olympics about the athletes again. And this will never happen...

 

Why would anyone expect government to fund recreational activities in the first place?

 

 

That was pretty much the way it was in the old days. It wasn't any more perfect then than is it is now. It used to be the AAU bigwigs all traveled around in limos eating caviar and drinking Chateau Lafitte-Rothschild prime vintages while the atheletes could not accept a free candy bar without threatening their amateur status. The issue with athelete pay is always the same in both pro and amateur events: revenue sharing. Big time athletics from track and field to beach volleyball generates revenue in the form of ticket sales, broadcast rights, and sponsorships. Why shouldn't the atheletes get some slice of the pie?

 

There's some hints of reform in some sports, though. Soccer/Football has a limit of 23 years for national teams for instance. There was some talk of implementing age limits for basketball in 2016, but that's been tabled for now. My guess is there will be similar limits eventually for many but not all sports.

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Why would anyone expect government to fund recreational activities in the first place?

 

 

By spending a little on "recreational activities" they save a lot in hospital bills due to lack of exercise. Most countries in the civilised world fund sport - both at grass roots and at senior level (to create interest in grass roots sport).

 

In the UK you have the National Lottery funding to sports, in France they have the brilliant CREPS locations offering world class training, facilities and rehabilitation to joe public, in Spain they have the taxpayer funded soccer clubs.

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By spending a little on "recreational activities" they save a lot in hospital bills due to lack of exercise.

 

Who said government should be paying hospital bills in the first place? Certainly not me. Apparently we've lost all concept of personal responsibility and the consequences of exercising our freedom of choice.

 

Like I said, a topic better suited for PA.

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The U.S. Government supports sports.

 

The U.S. Congress decided long ago that this nation does need to represent its sporting abilities in the international scene. Its support comes through the ability to make tax deductible donations to bona fide 501©3 organizations. Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1956 help set up People to People Sports. Many organizations, including U.S. Sailing are tax deductible charitable organizations who are part of the fabric to provide the best the U.S. has to offer on the international stage.

 

The USOC exists because of an Act of Congress giving the USOC many powers that any other organization does not get.

 

When the government passes on collecting tax dollars through charitable donations, they are supporting the Olympic and other sports and competitions. Guess what, it worked, the U.S. won more medals this time than any time before, even without any medals from sailing.

 

Congress must be pleased that their plan has worked and probably won't be making any changes to it.

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If sailors mus be only personally funded you will end wig troy the only sped rich ring able to afford to go. While for some they may be there already, it will tip the scales even further.

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From ABC.net.au

 

Australia's Olympic gold medal-winning sailing community is angry over plans to cut spending on the sport in the wake of the London Games.

 

The New South Wales Institute of Sport is poised to scrap its sailing program from next year.

 

The decision comes despite the fact that sailing was Australia's stand-out sport at the London Games, with three gold medals and one silver.

 

Seven out of eight of the sailors who won medals at the Games were from New South Wales.

 

The ABC's Mary Gearin says Yachting Australia was told two months ago that the New South Wales Institute of Sport would be dumping its sailing program.

 

Australian businessman Marcus Blackmore, one of the patrons of the sport in Australia, wants the institute to change its mind.

 

"You can see that they've got up here in these Olympics and they will do better again," he told ABC News Breakfast.

 

"The only solution to that is more money and more training and better support.

 

"The sad thing is the New South Wales Institute of Sport is looking at dropping sailing from their program and I think that's really stupid."

 

Yachting Australia's Phil Jones says the proposed spending cut is disappointing.

 

"The key for us is the pathway and the pipeline that brings new athletes ... all the state institute programs are very important in that, so losing the New South Wales Institute is a real concern for us," he said.

 

"But we have a lot of other institute programs and they're doing a fantastic job for us.

 

"We hope that if New South Wales want to revisit that, then we would be delighted."

 

A spokesman for the Institute says there has been discussion about a few sports, including sailing, which is standard procedure every four years.

 

He says no decisions have yet been made.

 

Yachting New South Wales says it is seeking an urgent meeting with the State Government over the possibility of sailing being cut from the budget.

Can anyone else remember when sailing funding - or in fact the sport as a whole made the media in Australia? It's a big win. There's no way the program will be cut now, it would be branded as un-Astralian to do so...

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Why would anyone expect government to fund recreational activities in the first place?

Because they can and they think it makes good politics. Sport is socially important in Australia. And, the government has the headroom in spending to fund sport. Overall Australian Government spending 34.3% of GDP, USA 38.9%

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending#International_government_spending_as_a_percentage_of_GDP

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Are there options for private funding?

 

Yes absolutely YES, Do like the Pommies did and create a tax on the poor and stupid.......called a lottery.

 

That way the ones who can least afford to help out are actually paying for those who probably should never get a damn thing.

 

Socialism turned upside down??

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a tax on the poor and stupid.......called a lottery.

And even better people actually *like* paying their tax... Maybe their should be an income tax lottery, and for every thousand dollars/quids/euros you pay on your income tax you get a ticket in the income tax lottery with a million dollar/quid/euro prize...

 

You saw it here first...

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a tax on the poor and stupid.......called a lottery.

And even better people actually *like* paying their tax... Maybe their should be an income tax lottery, and for every thousand dollars/quids/euros you pay on your income tax you get a ticket in the income tax lottery with a million dollar/quid/euro prize...

 

You saw it here first...

 

genius

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How about we boot Wayne Swan out and give his gig to Dawg?

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personally i'm all in favour of govt funding for sailing...but NOT the way the aussie govt does it now, where mega bucks are handed out to a handful of elite sailors, in boats that no-body else sails (exactly how many fleets of 470s race in australia please ?), to allow these elite sailors to make a name for themselves and become highly paid boat-hopping guns for the rest of their days.

 

for me the money would be far better spent on prompting grass roots sailing, at the club and school level. who gives a toss if a few people can't add gold medals to their resumes ? anyway, if we can get back to the level of participation we had 30 - 40 years ago, there will be so much competition that we will produce talented sailors without spending milions on coaching a few people

 

oh, silly me : but then the coaches and adminstrators will be out of a gig, and we know THAT will never happen...

 

cheers,

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If the NSWIS dumps sailing, there's going to be a few nice boatsheds on prime waterways looking for a new use. Narrabeen Lagoon, Lake Macquarie at least... mmmm. But then they will probably sell them to reduce public debt (ooh that big bogey man - so scary!), and they'll be lost forever. Why are Americans so scared of government? Didn't you guys invent democracy? (yes, Jim, but not as we know it)

 

Two of the Olympic classes are popular in the real world - 49er, Laser. Elliots too - but after that finals race, maybe they would have been seen a lot more if clubs had set up match racing like that! Phwoaah...

 

Whatever happens, there is a dramatic lack of kids coming into the sport. Thankfully the few that do prove to be bloody good, but there are sailing clubs all over Oz with a handful of members, none under 40. How do we fix that? Our club has puzzled over this for years - without govt support. we don't need money thrown at it, but getting sailing into more school sports curriculums would be a big help.

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Are there options for private funding?

 

Yes absolutely YES, Do like the Pommies did and create a tax on the poor and stupid.......called a lottery.

 

Tax = compulsory

 

Lottery = some people's idea of a bit of fun and excitement. Play if you want.

 

Not the same.

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Why are Americans so scared of government? Didn't you guys invent democracy?

 

The Athenians got there first.

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Why are Americans so scared of government? Didn't you guys invent democracy?

 

The Athenians got there first.

 

 

Why are Americans scared of govt?

 

Hmmmm...

Why did we revolt? Have you looked at the US Congress lately?

 

Nevermind....

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Are there options for private funding?

 

Yes absolutely YES, Do like the Pommies did and create a tax on the poor and stupid.......called a lottery.

 

Tax = compulsory

 

Lottery = some people's idea of a bit of fun and excitement. Play if you want.

 

Not the same.

 

 

Lottery = Tax on people who are bad at math

 

KB

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Lottery = Tax on people who are bad at math

Taxes are optional? While continuing to earn income, purchase goods, or own property?

 

Good news!

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Looking at their website, it doesn't appear NSWIS is a government agency. Looks like a private organization that probably gets some government grants but also a lot of corporate sponsors.

 

So I'm sure if some individual or company wanted to step up and endow the sailing program they'd keep it.

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Looking at their website, it doesn't appear NSWIS is a government agency. Looks like a private organization that probably gets some government grants but also a lot of corporate sponsors.

 

So I'm sure if some individual or company wanted to step up and endow the sailing program they'd keep it.

 

Institute of Sport Act 1995 (NSW)

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Are there options for private funding?

 

Yes absolutely YES, Do like the Pommies did and create a tax on the poor and stupid.......called a lottery.

 

Tax = compulsory

 

Lottery = some people's idea of a bit of fun and excitement. Play if you want.

 

Not the same.

 

 

Dawg = Totally correct....but you forgot to include a tax on cigarettes which would come from the same smart folk. No wait, China would be unbeatable........

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personally i'm all in favour of govt funding for sailing...but NOT the way the aussie govt does it now, where mega bucks are handed out to a handful of elite sailors, in boats that no-body else sails (exactly how many fleets of 470s race in australia please ?), to allow these elite sailors to make a name for themselves and become highly paid boat-hopping guns for the rest of their days.

 

for me the money would be far better spent on prompting grass roots sailing, at the club and school level. who gives a toss if a few people can't add gold medals to their resumes ? anyway, if we can get back to the level of participation we had 30 - 40 years ago, there will be so much competition that we will produce talented sailors without spending milions on coaching a few people

 

oh, silly me : but then the coaches and adminstrators will be out of a gig, and we know THAT will never happen...

 

cheers,

At the 1976 470 Qlympic trials in Oz there was 67 entries from what I was told.

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Looking at their website, it doesn't appear NSWIS is a government agency. Looks like a private organization that probably gets some government grants but also a lot of corporate sponsors.

 

So I'm sure if some individual or company wanted to step up and endow the sailing program they'd keep it.

 

Institute of Sport Act 1995 (NSW)

 

OK, thanks. But it still looks like they're able to accept private money, so a private entity could still fund sailing if they wanted to.

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personally i'm all in favour of govt funding for sailing...but NOT the way the aussie govt does it now, where mega bucks are handed out to a handful of elite sailors, in boats that no-body else sails (exactly how many fleets of 470s race in australia please ?), to allow these elite sailors to make a name for themselves and become highly paid boat-hopping guns for the rest of their days.

 

for me the money would be far better spent on prompting grass roots sailing, at the club and school level. who gives a toss if a few people can't add gold medals to their resumes ? anyway, if we can get back to the level of participation we had 30 - 40 years ago, there will be so much competition that we will produce talented sailors without spending milions on coaching a few people

 

oh, silly me : but then the coaches and adminstrators will be out of a gig, and we know THAT will never happen...

 

cheers,

At the 1976 470 Qlympic trials in Oz there was 67 entries from what I was told.

 

But that was pre VK. The 470 combination for Rio has probably already been determined/annointed or if not , will be in a very short time. There will be tears! We may not like the process, but we glory in the results.

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By spending a little on "recreational activities" they save a lot in hospital bills due to lack of exercise.

 

Who said government should be paying hospital bills in the first place? Certainly not me. Apparently we've lost all concept of personal responsibility and the consequences of exercising our freedom of choice.

 

Like I said, a topic better suited for PA.

 

Ah...Here comes the "Health care is a privilege" crowd....Send in the clowns.

 

Government can certainly rationally support recreational activity in the name of the common good, and, in the US, has done so since Olmstead* defined the need for Central Park to be necessary for the health of the people of NY, to Teddy Roosevelt who structured the National Parks system to provide for the health of the land and the citizenry. Having healthy neighbors costs all of us less. Yes, this can include sailing.

 

* Hi-jack: For those of you who don't know, Olmstead was in charge of improving soldier's health during the US Civil War, which is when his views on the value of recreation and open space/clean air for the common good were formed. If you've grown up in NY, Chicago, Boston, Detroit, Seattle, San Francisco among many other cities you can look at the best parts of your city and thank him. You can actually rent sailboats, row boats, kayaks and canoes in many of his parks.

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Looking at their website, it doesn't appear NSWIS is a government agency. Looks like a private organization that probably gets some government grants but also a lot of corporate sponsors.

 

So I'm sure if some individual or company wanted to step up and endow the sailing program they'd keep it.

 

Institute of Sport Act 1995 (NSW)

 

OK, thanks. But it still looks like they're able to accept private money, so a private entity could still fund sailing if they wanted to.

 

Of course it can.

 

You can have a national program without it being funded by the national government.

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+1

 

Olympics should be strictly limited to purely amateur athletes living normally within a country without any funding from the government (taxpayers).

 

This would eliminate China, Russia, etc. The Olympics are so commercialized and professional now it has become a joke.

 

Look at Phelps. Multi-millionaire. Once you take your first sponsor dollar you should be no longer eligible to participate. Every 4 years a new crop would result as the top athletes would likely take the money. 22 medals would not be possible unless a true athlete decide NOT to take the money and kept going.

 

This is the only way to make the Olympics about the athletes again. And this will never happen...

 

Why would anyone expect government to fund recreational activities in the first place?

 

PHELPS?!?!?!?

 

 

 

Of ALL the BIG MONEY people competing in the Olympics, PHELPS is who you have an issue with?

 

Perhaps the American tennis and basketball teams missed your cunning eye....

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Are there options for private funding?

 

Yes absolutely YES, Do like the Pommies did and create a tax on the poor and stupid.......called a lottery.

 

Tax = compulsory

 

Lottery = some people's idea of a bit of fun and excitement. Play if you want.

 

Not the same.

 

 

Lottery = Tax on people who are bad at math

 

KB

Lottery = Every one can understand the odds. The lottery is a tax on people who's horizon is limited enough that the dream alone is worth the money and the extremely greedy.

 

So the lottery is generally played by people that society deems of relatively little worth. Which is a large majority. Spend the peoples money on sport and it makes the nations team the peoples team. The point that everyone who buys a lottery ticket in the UK is effectively in their won way a part of Team GBR and justified in taking person pride in it's performance was made several by the team during the Olympics.

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By spending a little on "recreational activities" they save a lot in hospital bills due to lack of exercise.
Who said government should be paying hospital bills in the first place?

Presumably voters who elect governments that have policies to fund public health. In democracies at least.

 

Apparently we've lost all concept of personal responsibility and the consequences of exercising our freedom of choice.

Health is not always (or even mostly) a matter of choice. Do people choose to get cancer?

 

Fostering healthy lifestyles through encouraging participation in sport is a viable strategy for reducing health costs (public and private) and promoting community well being. There are also great social benefits from well run community groups and programs. Governments can help with funding, appropriate regulation and sponsored programs.

 

Overall, the economic benefit of sport and community programs can be far less than the cost of funding them.

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Whatever happens, there is a dramatic lack of kids coming into the sport. Thankfully the few that do prove to be bloody good, but there are sailing clubs all over Oz with a handful of members, none under 40. How do we fix that? Our club has puzzled over this for years - without govt support. we don't need money thrown at it, but getting sailing into more school sports curriculums would be a big help.

Our club has had a huge increase in enquiries in the very short time since the Olympics. We've also established learn to sail programs for 8 to 12 year olds and older kids and adults with intermediate programs to get them into club racing in whatever boat they choose.

 

The club's primary goal is to promote sailing, it's up to class associations to promote classes.

 

Getting bums in boats isn't hard, but you need dedicated volunteers and club members to make it work. That's where sponsorship (government and private) helps greatly to help with funding, facilities and appropriate regulation. Once you have those, getting schools to participate in sailing programs is pretty simple and the programs become self funding.

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if they made sport funding/donation a tax deduction, sports would be rolling in it.......

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Are there options for private funding?

 

Yes absolutely YES, Do like the Pommies did and create a tax on the poor and stupid.......called a lottery.

 

Tax = compulsory

 

Lottery = some people's idea of a bit of fun and excitement. Play if you want.

 

Not the same.

 

 

Lottery = Tax on people who are bad at math

 

KB

Lottery = Every one can understand the odds. The lottery is a tax on people who's horizon is limited enough that the dream alone is worth the money and the extremely greedy.

 

So the lottery is generally played by people that society deems of relatively little worth. Which is a large majority. Spend the peoples money on sport and it makes the nations team the peoples team. The point that everyone who buys a lottery ticket in the UK is effectively in their won way a part of Team GBR and justified in taking person pride in it's performance was made several by the team during the Olympics.

Love it or hate it, the lottery funding has certainly helped our sports in the UK and definatley has given our minority sports funding they would have never had from goverment or otherwise. I refused to buy a ticket for the first 5 years of its existance until I saw where the huge ammount of excess was filtered too,(apart from lining certain individuals pockets) and now knowing the odds I am happy to throw my £2.00 their way and although I am very unlikley to win cash, my sport is definatley winning.As a side note I read recently that the U.S goverment spends more on healthcare per individual than the UK goverment.

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Lottery = Every one can understand the odds. The lottery is a tax on people who's horizon is limited enough that the dream alone is worth the money and the extremely greedy.

 

So the lottery is generally played by people that society deems of relatively little worth. Which is a large majority. Spend the peoples money on sport and it makes the nations team the peoples team. The point that everyone who buys a lottery ticket in the UK is effectively in their won way a part of Team GBR and justified in taking person pride in it's performance was made several by the team during the Olympics.

Love it or hate it, the lottery funding has certainly helped our sports in the UK and definatley has given our minority sports funding they would have never had from goverment or otherwise. I refused to buy a ticket for the first 5 years of its existance until I saw where the huge ammount of excess was filtered too,(apart from lining certain individuals pockets) and now knowing the odds I am happy to throw my £2.00 their way and although I am very unlikley to win cash, my sport is definatley winning.As a side note I read recently that the U.S goverment spends more on healthcare per individual than the UK goverment.

 

not sailing orientated, but that's no recomendation at all. health care in both countries is a national disgrace

 

cheers,

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Whatever happens, there is a dramatic lack of kids coming into the sport. Thankfully the few that do prove to be bloody good, but there are sailing clubs all over Oz with a handful of members, none under 40. How do we fix that? Our club has puzzled over this for years - without govt support. we don't need money thrown at it, but getting sailing into more school sports curriculums would be a big help.

Our club has had a huge increase in enquiries in the very short time since the Olympics. We've also established learn to sail programs for 8 to 12 year olds and older kids and adults with intermediate programs to get them into club racing in whatever boat they choose.

 

The club's primary goal is to promote sailing, it's up to class associations to promote classes.

 

Getting bums in boats isn't hard, but you need dedicated volunteers and club members to make it work. That's where sponsorship (government and private) helps greatly to help with funding, facilities and appropriate regulation. Once you have those, getting schools to participate in sailing programs is pretty simple and the programs become self funding.

 

That's a great trend, I hope it continues! - and I hope it's not limited to your club. Maybe Qld Education Dept is a bit more flexible than NSW. South of the border, teachers struggle to fit anything extra into the timetable, primary or secondary. And sailing is not a quick half hour, so it needs Departmental support.

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not sailing orientated, but that's no recomendation at all. health care in both countries is a national disgrace

 

cheers,

 

 

What utter crap? The NHS does a fantastic job, free at the point of access, to provide health care to anyone who needs it. Most of the problems are caused by politicians having to be seen to do something, or scrimping on providing the basics.

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If the NSWIS dumps sailing, there's going to be a few nice boatsheds on prime waterways looking for a new use. Narrabeen Lagoon, Lake Macquarie at least...

 

You are kidding about Narrabeen I hope, it's a 100m walk from the boatshed to where the lake drops off to it's maximum depth of 4 1/2 feet..... then another 100m to the first sand bar. All the same, I'll have the boatshed...

 

The day NSWIS Sailing trains on Narrabeen Lakes will be fun, let me know when they are heading down there, I'll show them where all the sandbars are!

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There are people who regularly would disagree with the contention that the lottery is for the stupid, that couple the other day who just won, what was is GBP200m or something - they are stupid though, thinking they can keep up their day jobs! Their money will find its way back into the economy pretty quickly too I'd think.

 

In Oz, particularly NSW the Clubs who do the same thing with poker machine money lament the loss of community sports every time there's a move to stop the stupid from throwing their money into these machines. It'd be better for this to be done by Gov't rather than filtered through the layers of greed in the private sector.

 

I'll stop now!

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Why should some poor shopworker in St.Louis be compelled to fund my glorious sailing career ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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How about we boot Wayne Swan out and give his gig to Dawg?

 

Wayne Swan

 

I could probably afford to go for the Para Games with that salary B)

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not sailing orientated, but that's no recomendation at all. health care in both countries is a national disgrace

 

cheers,

 

 

What utter crap? The NHS does a fantastic job, free at the point of access, to provide health care to anyone who needs it. Most of the problems are caused by politicians having to be seen to do something, or scrimping on providing the basics.

 

i'm sorry my friend : beg to differ. i employ several doctors and are continually speaking to others. almost without exceptions GPs i talk to in the UK are total disgusted by the NHS - vastly overworked and totally dis-illusioned by the absence of patient care. i say again : imho the NHS is a national disgrace.

 

however i did not mean to denigrate the hardworking doctors and nurses who do their best to keep the system from collapsing completely - the problem is lack of funding and wasteful adminstration

 

but this is a sailing thread so let's agree to disagree and get back to bagging govt funding of sailing - ok ?

 

cheers,

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