MidPack

J/88

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on my picture , the backstay was almost fully pulled. thats why the triangle is small. But yes , its maybe too small. I will make a bowline like suggested to try it out.

#21 is exactly the same as arr4ws shows, we had the same issue. First time we came in under power without easing the backstay, the tiller was badly restricted on tight turns. Could it be the rigging packages (Hall?) aren't all the same lengths?

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i would contact my broker to get in touch with Jboats and ultimately Hall.

 

Im in the process at the moment , service is great so far.

 

My broker (sunnybrook Yacht) is great. ( little ad for him ! )

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i would contact my broker to get in touch with Jboats and ultimately Hall.

 

Im in the process at the moment , service is great so far.

 

My broker (sunnybrook Yacht) is great. ( little ad for him ! )

You need your broker in order to get a few splices made.................................?

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i would contact my broker to get in touch with Jboats and ultimately Hall.

 

Im in the process at the moment , service is great so far.

 

My broker (sunnybrook Yacht) is great. ( little ad for him ! )

You need your broker in order to get a few splices made.................................?

?

 

Hall and J are very interested to know if everything is working like intended. If no one tell them they arent gonna fix it.

 

I also asked them how to start the engine, hoist the mainsail and the perfect ratio of milk for my bowl of corn flakes in the morning.

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i would contact my broker to get in touch with Jboats and ultimately Hall.

 

Im in the process at the moment , service is great so far.

 

My broker (sunnybrook Yacht) is great. ( little ad for him ! )

You need your broker in order to get a few splices made.................................?

 

Hall and J are very interested to know if everything is working like intended. If no one tell them they arent gonna fix it.

 

I also asked them how to start the engine, hoist the mainsail and the perfect ratio of milk for my bowl of corn flakes in the morning.

Feedback to jBoats about any and all deficiencies of the design and parts selection, including rigging package, is a great idea.

 

 

The American j88 was marketed to "people who have sailed for a long time, have plenty of money and have time, don’t want to race, but want a good looking, fast day boat." The correct milk to cornflakes ratio is a perfect example of what answers are available from jBoats.

 

In contrast, the Viper 830 support team has a different approach.

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I think this is what will make the 88 sucessful , a great community. Here we have what? 5 confirmed owners?

 

I talked a lot in private with insails , Operator , midpack( who actually started this thread! ) and BSP . We need to share our experience with Jboats. Its fundamental to make the 88 the best jboat. And im not talking about whining , but constructive criticism.

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I just sent a polite email with a description of the issue and a backstay pic to J/Boats and Hall Spars to see what they have to say. When I get a response, I will share it here.

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I think this is what will make the 88 sucessful , a great community. Here we have what? 5 confirmed owners?

 

I talked a lot in private with insails , Operator , midpack( who actually started this thread! ) and BSP.

BSP is not an owner. His insipid comments, jaded views, and idiotic remarks in no way reflect those of the owner of Deviation (hull 24) in any way, shape, or form.

 

I appreciate the cooperative nature of this thread, and I'm happy to share any ideas we have with the class.

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I think this is what will make the 88 sucessful , a great community. Here we have what? 5 confirmed owners?

 

I talked a lot in private with insails , Operator , midpack( who actually started this thread! ) and BSP.

BSP is not an owner. His insipid comments, jaded views, and idiotic remarks in no way reflect those of the owner of Deviation (hull 24) in any way, shape, or form.

I appreciate the cooperative nature of this thread, and I'm happy to share any ideas we have with the class.

Midpack is not an owner either. I am very interested in a J/88 and have some access to one (several outings so far).

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Perhaps a place to start with a J/88, though I make NO claims whatsover WRT accuracy. If anyone has better numbers, I am sure many would be interested.

 

Also ran across a reported stability index of 112.4 & an LPS of 116.9 FWIW.

 

 

post-301-0-76773700-1403031882_thumb.jpg

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My crew is racing tonight , i cant be on the boat. My girlfriend could give birth any moment to our 3rd child so i need to be available at a moment notice. I should have some neat picture cause i will go see them on the starting line.

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Perhaps a place to start with a J/88, though I make NO claims whatsover WRT accuracy. If anyone has better numbers, I am sure many would be interested.

 

Also ran across a reported stability index of 112.4 & an LPS of 116.9 FWIW.

 

 

jBoats j88 Owners manual lists LPS as 123-131 (STIX 28.82-31.36)

 

As per targets: I see no provision for DDFTTW?

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My crew is racing tonight , i cant be on the boat. My girlfriend could give birth any moment to our 3rd child so i need to be available at a moment notice. I should have some neat picture cause i will go see them on the starting line.

take some good pics, good luck with "arr4ws jr."

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Slightly faster than the ORC numbers:

 

post-420-0-99931200-1403036650_thumb.jpg

 

 

Perhaps a place to start with a J/88, though I make NO claims whatsover WRT accuracy. If anyone has better numbers, I am sure many would be interested.

 

Also ran across a reported stability index of 112.4 & an LPS of 116.9 FWIW.

 

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Upwind in very light wind

 

post-302-0-61433200-1403053796_thumb.jpg

 

post-302-0-89934500-1403053849_thumb.jpg

 

compared to a melges 24 downwind

 

post-302-0-77620000-1403053805_thumb.jpg

 

dont ask me how the race went... i do not know :)

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Perhaps a place to start with a J/88, though I make NO claims whatsover WRT accuracy. If anyone has better numbers, I am sure many would be interested.

 

Also ran across a reported stability index of 112.4 & an LPS of 116.9 FWIW.

I really thought that thing would have a bit more speed downhill than the polars show for 16 and 20 knots. also the jibe angle for 20 is just a bit off
I was wondering the same thing about the jibe angles. My only thought was that at 16 you are still in displacement mode, so soaking. At 20, you can start to plane so you're sailing hotter to keep it up on the step and the faster speeds translate to better VMG...

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Were there any comments on this (published by Quantum last Fall IIRC)? Looks like conditions requiring the heavy jib and the A3 (even more so) are limited.

 

And I can't imagine not throwing in a reef going upwind until 27 knots true, guess I'm a wimp.

Sail%20Selection%20Chart_J88.jpg

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One reason for using the Heavy Jib in the 13-20 kt range would be to "save" the Class Jib for the light stuff, you don't want to trash the Class Jib and have nothing for the rest if the season. The j88 is somewhat tender, the Heavy Jib is slightly smaller and flatter as well so it should perform better as well.

 

In light conditions the A3 may fly better than the A2 because of the higher angle you will be sailing and lighter total weight of the sail.

 

The one drawback to having a brand new boat is we have no delivery sails. We are bringing an old J10'5 Spinnaker and and older Soverel 33 #4 to Block Island.

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forgot almost that i promised to put online the pictures of our inhauler, (but i got a reminder, thanks) we took of the stainles rings and replaced them with loops wich we made our selfs , they still hold after some serious sailing. And no damages to the deck

inhauler3

inhauler2

inhauler1

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Upwind in very light wind

 

10498275_10152478741057604_7230368006405468385_o.jpg

 

10379806_10152478741037604_4445236342291087731_o.jpg

 

compared to a melges 24 downwind

 

10353436_10152478741067604_5308531663810195831_o.jpg

 

dont ask me how the race went... i do not know :)

great pictures, I'd think a bit less heal would be better in the spinnaker shot

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Two melges were luffing each other. They were steering clear from them.

 

Last one , really shows the beauty of this design

 


post-302-0-22348600-1403144653_thumb.jpg

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re: backstay

I heard from Hall and J/Boats quickly. Here's where we are so far from J/Boats:

"We are working on a number of design reviews for the J/88 backstay system.

 

It does not appear you are doing anything wrong. It is entirely possible you have cascades of improper length.

We are checking all design specs against what has been made and shipped with boats.

We will be able to get back with you soon with recommended lengths/design."

 

I mentioned the discussion on this thread for reference.

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Great pics BSP. I can see tiller pilot in our future.

 

QUESTION for others, I need to figure out installing 3 B&G Triton displays in a Scanstrut ScanPod. My only question has to do with the connectors on the display backs. I assume there won't be enough room to use the supplied T-connectors without kinking cables and we'll need to buy 6 elbow connecters for a clean install. Any of you ScanPod owners know?

post-301-0-39820500-1403445949_thumb.jpg

post-301-0-63691000-1403445960_thumb.jpg

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Midpack. I have the same Setup. Just daisy chain with the 2 feet cable , no connector needed . I will upload my plan later today.

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Anybody else find adjusting the cap shrouds difficult due the the proximity of the stanchions?

+1. Absolutely. Try it on a J/88 with P&S gates, even more difficult thanks to an additional fore-aft stanchion brace!

This may be a possible solution ...

 

Shroud Adjuster using modified spline torque adapter* (these are not common tools but can be purchased thru ebay pretty cheap the size and length don’t matter, it will be cut down anyway.) I used ½” drive because I had an extra one available, probably a ” drive would be a better fit.

 

Just cut it to length and grind it down to a width of 0.375”

 

What is shown in the pics is too long, we cut this off so it swings past the other turnbuckles.

 

 

post-66960-0-20005800-1403605671_thumb.jpg

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Per picture above, tt looks like several J 88 owners are using Scar Pins in shroud turnbuckles in lie of cotter pins. Did they come standard with Hall rig package? If not, do you know what size(s) are required?

 

thanks

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The J/88 I helped put together did not come with scar pins.

 

An alternative to scar pins or 'ring-dings' (cotter rings/pins) - just use string looped through all three turnbuckle bodies and tied off. I've never had one come loose in 20 years, and it's one less sharp to catch something. YMMV

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And why can't you just stick the tip of a screw driver in there and do quarter/half turns?

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Anybody else find adjusting the cap shrouds difficult due the the proximity of the stanchions?

+1. Absolutely. Try it on a J/88 with P&S gates, even more difficult thanks to an additional fore-aft stanchion brace!

This may be a possible solution ...

 

Shroud Adjuster using modified spline torque adapter* (these are not common tools but can be purchased thru ebay pretty cheap the size and length don’t matter, it will be cut down anyway.) I used ½” drive because I had an extra one available, probably a ” drive would be a better fit.

 

Just cut it to length and grind it down to a width of 0.375”

 

What is shown in the pics is too long, we cut this off so it swings past the other turnbuckles.

Now thats fucked up. Who wants to go through that. Along with the back stay once again J boats show that they are great at selling shit tons of boats but that is about it. You would think that shit like that would have been redesigned from the get go on boat #1 if they did not want to invest the time to design it right in the first place. Sounds like they built 50 of them before they even sailed one. Having to reverse engineer a boat that costs this much is bullshit of the highest order.

 

Flame away

On the J/88 the stanchion and braces next to the shroud bases do get in the way of adjusting the turnbuckles more than other boats I've worked on, including other J/Boats. And the backstay could be better, and will be with some very simple mods. Neither is a big deal in the broad scheme of things.

 

I've been on other boats with problems that really couldn't be corrected, excessive helm, very poor cockpit ergonomics, generally poor build quality, etc. Those are the ones you really have to wonder about.

 

No boat is perfect, but J/Boats seems to get way more right than wrong compared to many other makes IME. That's what sells boats when all is said and done...

 

Flame away

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And why can't you just stick the tip of a screw driver in there and do quarter/half turns?

 

This. ^

 

 

What the fuck is that ridiculous socket wrench setup? There's a lot of over thinking going on here!

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The shroud base (and backstay) aren't big issues, owners are simply discussing the best way to address them. I don't know an owner yet who doesn't love the boat, despite a relatively few minor issues.

 

I posted a similar pic earlier, but thought it might be helpful for non-owners who've chosen to weigh in, who may have mostly adjusted turnbuckles on inboard shroud bases (like me until the J/88), or outboard bases without a stanchion & braces nearby. The pic shows absolute worst case (not what most owners face) - with an additional fore-aft stanchion brace for P&S opening gates. Rig tuning just takes a little longer since you can't make full half turns or more, not the end of the world...

post-301-0-40938100-1403620478_thumb.jpg

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The shroud base (and backstay) aren't big issues, owners are simply discussing the best way to address them. I don't know an owner yet who doesn't love the boat, despite a relatively few minor issues.

 

I posted a similar pic earlier, but thought it might be helpful for non-owners who've chosen to weigh in, who may have mostly adjusted turnbuckles on inboard shroud bases (like me until the J/88), or outboard bases without a stanchion & braces nearby. The pic shows absolute worst case (not what most owners face) - with an additional fore-aft stanchion brace for P&S opening gates. Rig tuning just takes a little longer since you can't make full half turns or more, not the end of the world...

Wow - that is a not the brightest placement of a stanchion right over the shroud base - somebody forgot their thinking cap

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Stanchion isnt the same anymore. Ours just have one leg going straight for the middle.

 

Also this thread is very cooperative. We all collaborate to fix certain issues we have. We do it openly. If you all prefer we will do this privately without access to our information.

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Stanchion isnt the same anymore. Ours just have one leg going straight for the middle. Also this thread is very cooperative. We all collaborate to fix certain issues we have. We do it openly. If you all prefer we will do this privately without access to our information.

Actually the stanchion config has not changed. From the earlier post/picture:

I posted a similar pic earlier, but thought it might be helpful for non-owners who've chosen to weigh in, who may have mostly adjusted turnbuckles on inboard shroud bases (like me until the J/88), or outboard bases without a stanchion & braces nearby. The pic shows absolute worst case (not what most owners face) - with an additional fore-aft stanchion brace for P&S opening gates. Rig tuning just takes a little longer since you can't make full half turns or more, not the end of the world...

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Stanchion isnt the same anymore. Ours just have one leg going straight for the middle. Also this thread is very cooperative. We all collaborate to fix certain issues we have. We do it openly. If you all prefer we will do this privately without access to our information.

Actually the stanchion config has not changed. From the earlier post/picture:

>I posted a similar pic earlier, but thought it might be helpful for non-owners who've chosen to weigh in, who may have mostly adjusted turnbuckles on inboard shroud bases (like me until the J/88), or outboard bases without a stanchion & braces nearby. The pic shows absolute worst case (not what most owners face) - with an additional fore-aft stanchion brace for P&S opening gates. Rig tuning just takes a little longer since you can't make full half turns or more, not the end of the world...

 

 

oh right... sorry !

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Just passing along resources as I find them http://na.northsails.com/RADUPLOADS/J88/J88_QuickTuneCard_14_F.pdf (though I may be the last to find them).

Cool Thanks.

Does it matter whether we use PT-2 or PT-2M? Scale is the same I think?

 

We were not able to get more than 43 on the V1s.

 

These are what we used last week, they seemed pretty good:

 

 

Light air (less than 12 kts)

V1 D1 D2

-5, -3, -1½ (off from base)

35 15 23 (on PT-2)

 

Base (12-15 kts)

V1 D1 D2

49 18 32 (on PT-2)

 

Heavy air (18+ using #3 jib)

V1 D1 D2

+8 +3 +1½ (on from base)

43 24 37 (on PT-2)

 

(Sorry we didn't make a fancy PDF)

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I assume you meant 39 for V1 base.

 

And I also assume the PT-2 and PT-2M are the same gauge (maybe the diameter notches are different?), with a different label. I'll probably buy a PT-2 cause they're cheaper and easier to find, and tape a copy of the metric label on the other side...

post-301-0-62252500-1404086004_thumb.jpg

post-301-0-00798200-1404086016_thumb.jpg

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One question I've never heard adequately answered - why don't people just quote the

Metric tension rather than x on y gauge! When you weigh something you don't say 2 O'clock on a salter kitchen scale version 4

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Base (12-15 kts)

V1 D1 D2

40 18 32 (on PT-2)

 

 

I assume you meant 39 for V1 base.

40, not 49, changed above

 

One question I've never heard adequately answered - why don't people just quote the

Metric tension rather than x on y gauge! When you weigh something you don't say 2 O'clock on a salter kitchen scale version 4

The spring gauge is graduated from 0-50 on a dial - it does not directly say tension, you have to look that up.

 

Also the tensions shown on the Loos Gauge is for 1x19 cable, the j88 uses Dyform 1x7 cable, ... so basically it is easier to read the needle than to read a cross reference table.

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Update on backstay from J/Boats (not final):

 

"Apologies for not having a finished spec yet. We have been deluged with commissioning/summer season issues this week.

 

I have been telling J/88 owners to shorten/tie the existing cascades to a length that will produce the best performance for their current rig/rake set up. We are testing a third cascade to increase purchase to 48:1 in the existing space used for the 24:1. Don't have it quite right yet. With this set up, rake changes are magnified in the backstay purchase travel required. I should be able to have a system for you next week."

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Update on backstay from J/Boats (not final):

 

"I have been telling J/88 owners to shorten/tie the existing cascades ... should be able to have a system for you next week."

Who is the "I" in this quote? The same one notifying j88 owners about the Harken and Antal recalls?

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We have a new J88 available for Demo at the shop in Alameda, should anyone want a test sail.

 

Feel free to call me 415-867-8056

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Great fun a J88

Excellent. Did anyone note a top speed just for fun?

The velocitek recorded a max speed of 22.5 !

post-109919-0-66653600-1404811558_thumb.jpg

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Who is the "I" in this quote? The same one notifying j88 owners about the Harken and Antal recalls?

We haven't heard about the Harken & Antal recalls, can you elaborate?

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We're about to install a ZG100 GPS antenna/ecompass. I've seen at least two J/88s that put it flush deck aft stbd, and that looks pretty good to us. Anyone else with another good idea? We don't want it up in the rail FWIW.

post-301-0-43876100-1405079172_thumb.jpg

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Not a J/88 answer, but I installed a GPS antenna just under the top of the companionway instrument row on a C&C 99. I used some double-sided sticky stuff to just stick it there and it got a clean signal without drilling any holes at all. You might want to see if you can get signal from somewhere underneath before you drill more holes.

 

Cheers,

 

jason

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We're about to install a ZG100 GPS antenna/ecompass. I've seen at least two J/88s that put it flush deck aft stbd, and that looks pretty good to us. Anyone else with another good idea? We don't want it up in the rail FWIW.

 

Did you run into any interference issues with the magnetic compass and the stern pulpit? That's my only concern mounting an antenna so close to metal.

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The pulpit is non-ferrous

 

We're about to install a ZG100 GPS antenna/ecompass. I've seen at least two J/88s that put it flush deck aft stbd, and that looks pretty good to us. Anyone else with another good idea? We don't want it up in the rail FWIW.

 

Did you run into any interference issues with the magnetic compass and the stern pulpit? That's my only concern mounting an antenna so close to metal.

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Not a J/88 answer, but I installed a GPS antenna just under the top of the companionway instrument row on a C&C 99. I used some double-sided sticky stuff to just stick it there and it got a clean signal without drilling any holes at all. You might want to see if you can get signal from somewhere underneath before you drill more holes.

 

Cheers,

 

jason

Good thought, I may experiment with locations down below. We may only use it as our HDG compass anyway, we intend to use a Garmin handheld for GPS duty as we didn't see a need for a Zeus (and we can always add one later if we want it).

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Funny thing is Bill, you regularly beat about half those boats on Thursdays. Keep this up and some might think you are sandbagging to protect your rating!

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Funny thing is Bill, you regularly beat about half those boats on Thursdays. Keep this up and some might think you are sandbagging to protect your rating!

There was a slight error in the scoring entry and we acquired an extra hour in the process. I figured we'd just take it as a throw-out and use it later as proof that we need a 174 phrf rating. :P

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You will need:

Ronstan PNP256 S/S lined Pushfitting ... $10

1" PVC hose plug (Lasco or equivalent) ... $1

 

Also you will need:

Razor blade to clean up old sealant,

drill and 3/4" drill bit, to drill out PVC hose fitting

some 3M 4200,

some gloves to make a big mess with 4200,

some MEK and paper towels to clean up big mess,

about 20 minutes

post-66960-0-76370700-1406061858_thumb.jpg

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Wow Bill! Very nice !

 

I will do this!

The problem with the jBoats supplied Push-Fit Bushing is three fold:

• the fitting is “all plastic” and pulling the line once in any angle but square will cut thru the fitting

• the fitting has a 1” (25.4mm) cutout thru the bulkhead

• the line size is 5/16” (8mm) so any aperture larger than that may allow addition water down below.

 

I had trouble finding a replacement Thru-Deck Bushing with a metal liner with a 1” cutout and a 5/16” aperture: The largest cutout “push-fit” fittings were from RWO 9/16”, Holt-Allen 5/8”, Ronstan 25/32”. RWO, Holt-Allen and Ronstan make larger “screw down” type fittings with larger apertures but they would require drilling more holes into the bulkhead.

 

Colligo Marine makes some very nice custom polished titanium deck pass thru’s just the right size, since the price was not listed, i did not want to ask.

post-66960-0-26463900-1406191001_thumb.jpg

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Wow Bill! Very nice !

 

I will do this!

The problem with the jBoats supplied Push-Fit Bushing is three fold:

• the fitting is “all plastic” and pulling the line once in any angle but square will cut thru the fitting

• the fitting has a 1” (25.4mm) cutout thru the bulkhead

• the line size is 5/16” (8mm) so any aperture larger than that may allow addition water down below.

 

I had trouble finding a replacement Thru-Deck Bushing with a metal liner with a 1” cutout and a 5/16” aperture: The largest cutout “push-fit” fittings were from RWO 9/16”, Holt-Allen 5/8”, Ronstan 25/32”. RWO, Holt-Allen and Ronstan make larger “screw down” type fittings with larger apertures but they would require drilling more holes into the bulkhead.

 

Colligo Marine makes some very nice custom polished titanium deck pass thru’s just the right size, since the price was not listed, i did not want to ask.

Is it class legal?

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Sailed a beercan Friday night against a well sailed Elan 40 that rates the same 69 as the J88 does locally. That is one hard boat to beat in non-planing conditions, especially with the 12 foot spot. Convincing the owner to go do the argument at the local PHRF rating meeting. He should get some relief...thought not sure. This is the same PHRF committee that has the Wabbit Wule banning any boat from PHRF NorCal racing that doesn't have a minimum of 400 lbs of lead. We shall see.

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According to the mythical FP, that was a very light air race, so the 88 ought to have an advantage over the 109 and 105 in those conditions...

 

One of the challenges of a single number system. 88 should do well in the light or when it can plane, so 69 ish maybe not too far off...but in more moderate breezes, where waterline matters, and the 88 can't plane, 84ish seems not to far off...

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Very close to a J/109 rating. Yikes! I think that 75-78 would be a good # for the boat. 69 no way!

 

FYI, under IRC J109 in OD trim rates circa 1.029. The J88 is 1.036.

 

From what I've seen racing against both fairly often I'd say that was about right. Certainly a rating slower than a 109 when the breeze is up would be a gift.

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entering Buzzards Bay Regatta with my new 88 this weekend-- New England rates it an PHRF 81 -- boats name is YONDER -- 28 signed up for the race--

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entering Buzzards Bay Regatta with my new 88 this weekend-- New England rates it an PHRF 81 -- boats name is YONDER -- 28 signed up for the race--

Good luck! I notice the regatta shows your rating of 87, similar to several other regions.

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NorCal PHRF's argument was "The J88 HAS to be faster then the J105 (78) so we rated it accordingly"

 

Ok, if it's faster give it a 75.....69 is damn hard to sail to without some loooooong downwind planing legs to offset the uphill battle.

 

The boat owner will make the argument. Still building results data.

 

Dr. Laura had a VERY high talent level on her boat..probably not representative of the boats 'normal' sailing capabilities.

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The J/88 will probably be quicker off the wind than a J/105, but hard to believe the J/88 will keep up with a J/105 upwind except maybe when it's really light air. I assume the J/105 will be stickier in light air, but then it's a 22 year old design. Time will tell...

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Well, truth is we beat two J120's last friday night at the beercans. Both 120''s went the wrong way on a Bay tour course.

 

The Elan 40 is sort of a gift rating at 69 (as everyone gives them shit about it...the owner is a great guy who happens to sail the boat quite well).

 

Having said that, the 88 won't sail to a 69 on the Bay with average sailors aboard. I'm thinking 75 is doable. Have to get the owner to make the arguments and stick with it.

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Very close to a J/109 rating. Yikes! I think that 75-78 would be a good # for the boat. 69 no way!

Interesting observation from someone who races an X-34, that from his own admission, "rates 99 but it sails to 84 in anything over 8 knots"

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One number (and time on distance) rating systems are a categorical failure.

AGREED!

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