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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
MidPack

J/88

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Awesome! When can we expect video of semi displacement mode in 20 TWS to criticize?

 

hat, coat :ph34r:

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Had to take a shot! Congrats on the new ride!

 

well , must have a shitload on order . First one to hit the water is in june... mine is scheduled for october :blink:

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Had to take a shot! Congrats on the new ride!

 

Didn't they give you a hull number when they quoted an October delivery?

 

well , must have a shitload on order . First one to hit the water is in june... mine is scheduled for october :blink:/>

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Ours comes in September! Can't wait!

 

where are you located?

 

also , thanks Still, im psyched to get back on the J train after the j/130 and j/24 we had :)

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It's really too bad it doesn't have a lifting keel. Would have made hoisting and trailering better not to mention the shallow water issues some have to deal with.

 

It does look to be too deep for a lot of places. A real pain to have a boat that can be hoisted only at high tide.

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So you need to take a demo ride on a J/70.

You might like it.

Well the J/70 is too small and who knows if it will get critical mass or not. You want larger, critical mass and room for a portable head. What's wrong with the J/80?

I'm thinking about doing a demo sail and I know I'd like the J/70 (loved our J/80), but the warden won't agree to a bucket (or a porta-potti) again and she's been a good sport re: sailing for over 20 years, so there's no way I can buy one...no marine head is a show stopper for her.

 

Who knows I may end up with a J/92-92s or nothing. I have to believe J/Boats will come out with a faster 29-30 footer, then it will come down to what price point...

 

Let the "Warden" service the marine shitter/holding tank and see how quick she'll be happy with the porta potti. Unless you use it a lot a marine toilet, holding tank etc are way more trouble than they're worth for a lady piss or two a month. Plus how's that supposed to work with your desire for something lighter and faster than a J-92? J-Boats seem to be going more IRC friendly and at this size hi-po doesn't work. I doubt they'll try something highly performance oriented at this size because those kind of boats don't sell to the regular J clientelle or in general to anyone else. Sailed a J92 a couple years back as part of a pick crew in the Round the Island (of Wight) race and we beat a couple of friends of mine on a J97 handily. Despite the age I think it's a pretty nice boat. Yeah it could be lighter and more sporty but what you can get them for on the used market it's hard to beat. J97 is too 109ish

 

 

Agree wholeheartedly about the crapper. A porta potti is so, so, so, so much easier to deal with. And you can ditch if for day-racing if you want. Truly, until you've owned a boat with a hardwired plumbing system, it's hard to fathom how horrible things can be when they go wrong. For example, undoubtedly you'll have a guest on board at some point who doesn't understand how to use a marine head. Lots of complexity and weight. A porta potti might not seem all that appealing, but it's a surprisingly good solution. A crew of 7 or 8 can go on a multi-day race with a porta potti, no sweat. Longer ocean races, obviously not. But they get the job done and save you endless expense and hassle.

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It's really too bad it doesn't have a lifting keel. Would have made hoisting and trailering better not to mention the shallow water issues some have to deal with.

 

It does look to be too deep for a lot of places. A real pain to have a boat that can be hoisted only at high tide.

 

Also, the extra eight inches of draft (vs. my 92) would make it close on our hoist for dry-sailing. You have to lift the boat high enough in the air to get it over the trailer. Otherwise I'm happy with the fixed keel - but you have to go looking for shallow water here. Our dealer will be getting one of the first boats for trial/tweaking purposes. I'm anxious to see it and sail against it.

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Clam,

I gotta disagree on the head discussion. Nothing worse than trying to carry a porta potty full of excrement to dump somewhere, and use if them involves as many steps as a regular head...

 

With 2 teenaged girls plus several other regular female crew, a marine head is a hard requirement for me on a boat this sized. Having owned 4 boats with marine heads and holding tanks, they are really no harder to deal with/maintain than a PP, ESP with the proliferation of free pumpouts ( at least here in the states)

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I'm not messing with a Porta-Potti on a $160k boat.

 

I don't think a Porta is that bad. Better than driving a tank full of shit around the buoys, no? Who needs that weight and sloshing around? I agree that for ocean races or cruises you've simply gotta have a real head on the boat. But have you ever had marine plumbing go bad? My father used to have a 34' cruiser, and I believe one of the guests got confused as to how to operate the head -- suffice it to say it was a nighmarish mess. I suppose the current 2013 systems must be more foolproof to operate. But I still wouldn't want a tank full of poo on the boat, and it is utterly uncool to just empty the tank into the water unless you're way offshore (although people certainly do it).

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I'm not messing with a Porta-Potti on a $160k boat.

 

I don't think a Porta is that bad. Better than driving a tank full of shit around the buoys, no? Who needs that weight and sloshing around? I agree that for ocean races or cruises you've simply gotta have a real head on the boat. But have you ever had marine plumbing go bad? My father used to have a 34' cruiser, and I believe one of the guests got confused as to how to operate the head -- suffice it to say it was a nighmarish mess. I suppose the current 2013 systems must be more foolproof to operate. But I still wouldn't want a tank full of poo on the boat, and it is utterly uncool to just empty the tank into the water unless you're way offshore (although people certainly do it).

Where do you think the "tank full of Poo" goes in a Porta John? If you pump your holding tank once in a while you don't have to carry much poo.

Like mentioned above: $160k = marine head.

If I have a newbie on the boat that may need the head, I go through the procedure, and then supervise as they go through the procedure, just to make sure they were listening.

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I would much rather have a marine head vs. a porta pottie. Most ports in the Northeast have pumpout boats that are readily available. I never have to carry poo around with me or touch it! With a porta pottie, you have to take a brief case of poo off the boat and find an approved place to dump it. if you use the blue chemicals, so your $160k boat doesn't smell like poo, you are not allowed to dump them down a regular toilet. You have to go to a pumpout facility.

 

Never underestimate the power of a newbie! I have twice seen them screw up a porta pottie and dump poo in the bilge of a boat.

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I'm not messing with a Porta-Potti on a $160k boat.

 

I don't think a Porta is that bad. Better than driving a tank full of shit around the buoys, no? Who needs that weight and sloshing around? I agree that for ocean races or cruises you've simply gotta have a real head on the boat. But have you ever had marine plumbing go bad? My father used to have a 34' cruiser, and I believe one of the guests got confused as to how to operate the head -- suffice it to say it was a nighmarish mess. I suppose the current 2013 systems must be more foolproof to operate. But I still wouldn't want a tank full of poo on the boat, and it is utterly uncool to just empty the tank into the water unless you're way offshore (although people certainly do it).

Where do you think the "tank full of Poo" goes in a Porta John? If you pump your holding tank once in a while you don't have to carry much poo.

Like mentioned above: $160k = marine head.

If I have a newbie on the boat that may need the head, I go through the procedure, and then supervise as they go through the procedure, just to make sure they were listening.

 

 

That's a fair comment. Put it this way, for $160K, they need to at least _offer_ a marine head.

 

(Boy, you really pay for newness! I mean, for $30K I imagine you could have the finest J30 in existence, replete with trailer and the finest sails known to man. I mention that because the J88 seems at first blush to me kind of a modern-day J30.)

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Since it's starting to get repeated I'll clarify the $160k number. My understanding is the base price is $124k (and I'd still want a real MSD for that).

 

$160k is my own estimate to include sails (4), basic electronics, sales tax, freight and commissioning.

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Do J-boats update/introduce a new model when sales fall off on the preceding model? Who is the target market? (just trying anything to distract this thread from the potti talk)

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I went back to RI several years ago and was able to talk with a couple of the J's. I think they just like to design new models - they are really into the sailing itself and want to design boats people will enjoy. I don't think they're serving Kool-Aid as some here suggest, although they clearly have the marketing figured out.

 

My guess is they've turned down offers to sell out to large conglomerates as predecessors have done (Cal, Columbia years ago, O'Day, etc.) They just seem to enjoy designing and marketing their boats and have wisely avoided actually building them.

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Since it's starting to get repeated I'll clarify the $160k number. My understanding is the base price is $124k (and I'd still want a real MSD for that).

 

$160k is my own estimate to include sails (4), basic electronics, sales tax, freight and commissioning.

estimate I had for sails (wich is my seller who is in contact with North) is 12k for a 3 set sails , and 17500 for 5 sails. But im unsure 2 more sails could only cost 5500... but we never know , i expect a package to be offered with the boat.

 

we also estimated the sailaway cost of the boat to be around 160k , with the 17.5k of sails , basic electronic , bottom paint ( done by us) , maybe a 110v charger if we feel like we need one.

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I don't think there are numbers 1-9

 

:lol:

 

Karma says I should jump in on #18, but I'm not the early-adopter type. I still want a new J/125.

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I thought it was funny - schooner is good people.

 

d-dock, come to think of it the next J/125 would have been #18 . . . uh, oh.

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I don't think there are numbers 1-9

 

You are giving Rondar a bad name. Not sure if you realize it, but it does a disservice to your great products.

I am pretty sure the Johnstone's are not sitting on their computers making snide remarks about viper sales.

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Are ratings typically assigned before a boat hits the water?

 

On our lake the, the PHRF committee uses "J/boats recommended PHRF handicaps" as one of several references in determining ratings. Section 4.7 in http://www.mbbc-vt.o...PHRF_Bylaws.pdf

 

There are enough J/boats models that the company probably has a reasonable interest in having their various models rate fairly against each other. However, I don't think they provide different numbers for different average winds, so a PHRF committee would still have to determine local adjustments.

 

I do not want to get into a discussion about the pros and cons of PHRF, but I would expect that the J/88 will have published or suggested ratings much sooner than other new boats in North America.

 

Cheers,

 

jason

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Someone said earlier his source said 78-80. I'd guess 75-81. But PHRF is regionally administered, and until an owner actually applies to his/her PHRF region for a rating, its hard to say exactly.

 

At the Annapolis Boat Show in '11 I had asked Rod J what he thought the J/70 would rate (none built att), and he thought about the same as a J/80. Currently, J recommends it as 3 secs faster so he wasn't too far off. Seems like in most areas the 70 rates 6-12 secs faster than the 80, reflecting some "conservative" rating on the part of some regional committess to make sure it doesn't sail faster than its assigned rating.

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Someone said earlier his source said 78-80.

That was me. The source was as good as they come (at Annapolis Show last Fall), but the design didn't have an IB at that point, that might change the rating slightly...

 

It looks like the perfect boat for me, wish I could afford justify buying one.

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There is no such thing as justifying a sailboat purchase. If you want it, just go out and buy the silly thing. What's life for if not to live it?

 

-jim lee

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Maybe I should justify that a little.

 

Every time I've made the choice to "just do it", Its not always been a picnic in the park. But it has ALWAYS in the end, made my life more worth living. Justification leads to a slow rotting death in a cubical.

 

-jim lee

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I agree with Jim, but . . .

 

Justifying it to myself is rarely a problem. Justifying it to my wife (of 28 years) sometimes is. The trick of reusing old sail bags for new sails doesn't work so well with a whole boat.

 

For all you youngin's who will say "just HTFU," your time will come.

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There is no such thing as justifying a sailboat purchase. If you want it, just go out and buy the silly thing. What's life for if not to live it?
If you have unlimited funds, yes.
Maybe I should justify that a little. Every time I've made the choice to "just do it", Its not always been a picnic in the park. But it has ALWAYS in the end, made my life more worth living. Justification leads to a slow rotting death in a cubical.
I retired years ago, so no risk of "rotting in a cubical."

 

BTW, there's some connection between (choosing to) not justify major purchases and "rotting in a cubical." YMMV :rolleyes:

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So they build your boat and you cant justify getting one. If you can justify a trip to New York you can always come sail the 100.

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Why not get a 100 or a 92.... Half the price or less and im gonna guess 95 percent of the fun....i have a 92s....great boat....good value ...ive said before j100 build quality better than mine and think likely better than this....but then i like displacement ....even in "sportboats"

 

I really think 105 percent of the fun...

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80 isn't a valid PHRF rating. They are all multiples of 3.

 

umm.. mine is 113 in PHRNE. Just sayin. But I think I'm also the exception that proves the rule.

PHRF-NE can do 1 sec/mi adjustments which makes some of their ratings odd ball compared to the rest of the country.

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80 isn't a valid PHRF rating. They are all multiples of 3.

 

My non J, non sportboat rates 234 here in Nor Cal.

Not a multiple of 3.

 

I think most adjustments are done in 3 second multiples.

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Why not get a 100 or a 92.... Half the price or less and im gonna guess 95 percent of the fun....i have a 92s....great boat....good value ...ive said before j100 build quality better than mine and think likely better than this....but then i like displacement ....even in "sportboats"

 

I really think 105 percent of the fun...

 

Going to be interesting to see how the 88 is able to compete with it's predecessors. What sets it apart? CF, deck stepped mast?

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According to J Boats, it will be the fastest to plane J boat yet. And PHRF estimate of 78-81 means it's 15 secs or so faster than a J-92s, 27 secs or so faster than a J-92 and 30+ secs a mile faster than a J-29. Hypothetically speaking based on guesstimate numbers.

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27 sec/mile faster than my 92? In their dreams. Same WL length, same 100% SA/D (the 88 is a bit lighter but also less sail area), except I can fly a 155 when it's light. It better have a monster kite to make up for what it will loose upwind. The 92s was supposed to be faster than the 92 but it's not.

 

Has anyone seen any sail dimensions for the 88?

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80 isn't a valid PHRF rating. They are all multiples of 3.

 

My non J, non sportboat rates 234 here in Nor Cal.

Not a multiple of 3.

 

I think most adjustments are done in 3 second multiples.

 

[Pedant maths hat]

[Cough]

 

3x78 = 234

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80 isn't a valid PHRF rating. They are all multiples of 3.

 

My non J, non sportboat rates 234 here in Nor Cal.

Not a multiple of 3.

 

I think most adjustments are done in 3 second multiples.

 

[Pedant maths hat]

[Cough]

 

3x78 = 234

 

Never mind.

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80 isn't a valid PHRF rating. They are all multiples of 3.

 

My non J, non sportboat rates 234 here in Nor Cal.

Not a multiple of 3.

 

I think most adjustments are done in 3 second multiples.

 

[Pedant maths hat]

[Cough]

 

3x78 = 234

 

Never mind.

 

Umm... I believe the J/105 rates 87 in the southeast... that's a prime number (and therefore not divisible by 3)...

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GT-desertkarma - Try 29x3 and see what you get.

 

 

80 isn't a valid PHRF rating. They are all multiples of 3.

 

My non J, non sportboat rates 234 here in Nor Cal.

Not a multiple of 3.

 

I think most adjustments are done in 3 second multiples.

 

[Pedant maths hat]

[Cough]

 

3x78 = 234

 

Never mind.

 

Umm... I believe the J/105 rates 87 in the southeast... that's a prime number (and therefore not divisible by 3)...

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number 16 for me. I also looked at raymarine and the tacktick line. But Nexus from garmin is also tempting.

 

Did you get any details from your seller?

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still nothing , im quite surprised . I cant wait to see the hull mold being made and all that. One thing we know , its CCF composite who will build the J/88. Same builder as the 111.

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Don't be too surprised. It takes awhile to build a boat! Your dealer will get more info to you shortly. I am pretty psyched about getting ours. I worked on my 90 for a few hours yesterday and will be happy to have a boat with an interior!

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im psyched as well. Moving up from a melges 24 will be good for family sailing and racing!

 

Usually J release pictures of the plug in the making and stuff like that. I really hope we get some pictures along the way!

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I agree! The boat will make my wife and son alot happier. Plus, it fits better with the area and boats I sail against on a regular basis.

 

i am sure they will release more details soon. Otherwise, there won't be anything for the forums to bitch about!

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Don't be too surprised. It takes awhile to build a boat! Your dealer will get more info to you shortly. I am pretty psyched about getting ours. I worked on my 90 for a few hours yesterday and will be happy to have a boat with an interior!

 

Did you sell the 90 yet? On the market?

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Dinghydock , just got information about sails. I know some sailmakers are meeting with j/boats this week to discuss the final spec of the mast and class rules for sails.

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Don't be too surprised. It takes awhile to build a boat! Your dealer will get more info to you shortly. I am pretty psyched about getting ours. I worked on my 90 for a few hours yesterday and will be happy to have a boat with an interior!

 

Did you sell the 90 yet? On the market?

I have not sold her. She is listed for sale but I will only sell if someone really wants to buy her. Most people have called thinking they could get her for a song. Not the case. Instead I am converting her to original specs for a J/90. She should be in the water next week with her new rig up and tuned. It will be another month until we have the new sails and then we are going to play with her for a while.

 

I hate to steal from the 88 thread. Anyone with any other questions about it can post in the j/90 thread that is on here somewhere.

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news from J/boats newsletter , just found it this morning.

 

2013_0410_J88_stern_view.jpg

 

J/88 Family Speedster Update!
(Newport, RI)- The J/88 tooling is completing at CCF in Bristol, Rhode Island. The hull plug is polished/ completed and being prepped for a mold this past week. The deck plug is undergoing final detail work and gets its mold completed week after next. We’ve spent a lot of time on the cockpit ergonomics and layout and we're very excited about the overall feel of comfort, safety and sail-handling systems.

The J/88 is going to re-define what versatility means in an under 30’ sailboat -sleek look, super quick, great combination of sail power and stability, low maintenance, huge social cockpit, easy to single-hand, push button diesel, below-decks head, deck-stepped carbon mast, single-point lift – the list goes on. Please contact your local J/Dealer for more information, specifications and brochure

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didnt choose yet , but i think ill go northsails. Im in contact with the NS loft in toronto and have great hope they will get us the best sails possible. They might go the way of 3Di. Inventory will be mainsail , light jib , heavy jib , reaching spinnaker and full downwind spinnaker.

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didnt choose yet , but i think ill go northsails. Im in contact with the NS loft in toronto and have great hope they will get us the best sails possible. They might go the way of 3Di. Inventory will be mainsail , light jib , heavy jib , reaching spinnaker and full downwind spinnaker.

From our experience with the J/111 our Jib 3.5 (heavy weather ORC jib) have gotten more airtime than anticipated. The boats doesn't need much power, and on flat water in a blow you have all the power you need...

 

http://www.blur.se/2012/06/17/j111-blur³-upwind-sails/

 

Jib1 = TWS 0-10, Jib 2 = 8-18, Jib 3 = 16+ knots. If I should do it again I would spec the 3.5 in 3Di as well and be aware that it will be used a a lot in TWS 18-22.

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didnt choose yet , but i think ill go northsails. Im in contact with the NS loft in toronto and have great hope they will get us the best sails possible. They might go the way of 3Di. Inventory will be mainsail , light jib , heavy jib , reaching spinnaker and full downwind spinnaker.

From our experience with the J/111 our Jib 3.5 (heavy weather ORC jib) have gotten more airtime than anticipated. The boats doesn't need much power, and on flat water in a blow you have all the power you need...

 

http://www.blur.se/2012/06/17/j111-blur³-upwind-sails/

 

Jib1 = TWS 0-10, Jib 2 = 8-18, Jib 3 = 16+ knots. If I should do it again I would spec the 3.5 in 3Di as well and be aware that it will be used a a lot in TWS 18-22.

 

thanks for the info. My take would be a jib 2 and jib 3 for our j/88 (im talking wind range). We dont get much 0-10. So the 3di is a good material ?

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On a J88??? Seriously..... I have my thoughts on 3Di as a cloth but wait until you see a price compared to 3DL, Fusion M, Stratis etc.. You could probably buy another J88!

 

Someting to remember is almost every "String" laminate will be engineered to handle the loads and not "stretch". Why would it not be?

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On a J88??? Seriously..... I have my thoughts on 3Di as a cloth but wait until you see a price compared to 3DL, Fusion M, Stratis etc.. You could probably buy another J88!

 

Someting to remember is almost every "String" laminate will be engineered to handle the loads and not "stretch". Why would it not be?

On a #3 jib I would consider 3Di on any boat. Expensive up front, but life span is probably twice that of a laminate sail. First year any sail works great. After two full seasons the difference is huge. Just my personal experience from a combined 3DL/3Di setup on our old J/109.

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whats the price difference for a 3di vs laminate for the same sail?

Ask your North rep ;)

 

20-30% depending on aramid/dyneema/carbon mix. Price difference between two 3DL-models can easily be 30% as well. As usual, you get what you pay for...

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whats the price difference for a 3di vs laminate for the same sail?

Ask your North rep ;)

 

20-30% depending on aramid/dyneema/carbon mix. Price difference between two 3DL-models can easily be 30% as well. As usual, you get what you pay for...

 

I prefer paying 20-30% up front and keep my sails for longer

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No choice yet for sails. I wont sail it until april 2014 so I have time. I only got to choose the options for the trailer so far.

 

Im going to test sail it mid july in newport.

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Who is building it im not sure. We have a floataway trailer with a bow stop , mast support , hydraulic brakes , led lights and spare tire/wheel.

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I asked the local dealer for the J/88's rig dimensions and he said they're "on the web." No luck finding them - has anyone seen any?

 

(I'm wondering if any of my reaching/downwind sails might fit.)

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I asked the local dealer for the J/88's rig dimensions and he said they're "on the web." No luck finding them - has anyone seen any?

 

(I'm wondering if any of my reaching/downwind sails might fit.)

 

you wont find them anywhere as they are not ''final'' yet from the information i got.

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The first 88 is about to be launched and I can't get I, J, P and E? How did they come up with SA/D etc? That's BS.

 

Horrible, just horrible. I can't believe they would want to do some on water testing before finalizing the specs.

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I haven't seen them, but have you tried one of the big name sailmakers? Might be worth a call/email to N/S-UK-Q...

I asked the local dealer for the J/88's rig dimensions and he said they're "on the web." No luck finding them - has anyone seen any?

 

(I'm wondering if any of my reaching/downwind sails might fit.)

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Yeah, yeah Snap - but they've usually published them with the initial specs, even if they later got tweaked. I guess I'm reacting more to the dealer blowing me off about it.

 

I can always scale them off the sailplan to get estimates. I just figured one of you guys in the cue would have them.

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