MidPack

J/88

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of course :

We build in the zeus 7 touchscreen plotter in starboard side, on port side they build in a window.

1 x triton wind,speed,depth

2 x multifunctional instrument

We wil build this on the mast in a bracket from scanstrut ,we saw the same meters on the juggle drum #3 and the view is perfect.

1 x rc 42 compass

inside we will build in a go free wifi, for connection with ipad and iphone.

with sonic hub multimedia and we build in some fusion speakers , don't know where at the moment we will see that when she arive's

and 1 vhf marine radio rs35dsc.

 

At first we were thinking of the big displays we had this on our old boat , but we found them to expensive and to big on the smal mast .

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re shore power:

 

Having had a 109 with shore power, I understand the attraction/advantages. But I've also owned three 30 foot racer/cruisers, and not one of them has had, nor needed, shore power. What electrical load do you run at the dock? With a battery disconnect switch, the battery/batteries should hold enough charge to go months and still be able to start the engine....and if using the boat regularly, the 20 mins or so of motoring is more than enough to top the battery back up. I don't use any charger at all. I'm not a big fan of the shore power cord with adapter on one end to plug a standard 2 or 3 prong portable battery charger cord into. That's fine if you're always going to be on the boat when your using it, but I wouldn't use it when I'm not on the boat. A short circuit, etc and your nice new boat burns up.

 

I'd go with nothing and save the weight and complexity.

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I understand the point of view , we doubted to let the boat very light and only use products from velocitec. We sail regatta's in our whole country, (and that is not that big) that means that we sometimes have deliverys across the north sea, or inland . So then we need in the Netherlands a good Plotter. (or it is handy) .

we ordered the J88 with extra battery. We also wil mount from whisper power a very light and easy detachable charcher . We don't instal a complicated shore power instalation. The total weight of the equipment is not that heavy.

Other point we use the boat in winter and summer , sometimes we sail with ice on the deck, at those time's the boat gets very wet and don't dry's for 4 months . and that also heavy. And there will be some mould .Just to keep the boat clean and dry we will mount the smallest heater from webasto.

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On our 88, we have decided to mount a Zeus 2 [new thin unit] on a heavy duty companionway swing out bracket with one triton mounted on the starboard side just above the opening port and 3 other Tritons on a scan strut mounted to the mast. That way the starboard opening port is retained and the screen is not blocked by crew position. Also selected an Intergrated Simrad, extra battery, but no shore power.

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Just to keep the boat clean and dry we will mount the smallest heater from webasto.

Have you considered the highly acclaimed Amish Mantel miracle invention infrared heating system; it is a work of engineering genius from the China coast, so advanced you simply plug it into any standard wall outlet. (I'm not sure if it is CE approved.)

post-66960-0-88502000-1385041246_thumb.jpg

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a question : heavy duty companionway swing out bracket is this from a special brand ? because i looked on the internet i had the same idea but could not find a proper solution.

 

never heard of the amish mantel i am going to search for jot further, whop knows someone has it in our country

 

anarchrist, congrats !!

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J 88 Owners - anyone given feedback to Team Johnstone about the following:

 

  • Dual Battery Configuration - why are they all mounted in the starboad stern locker. Why aren't the batteries split across the port and starboard aft areas - for better weight distribution
  • Port Stern compartment wiring harness - why is this midway up the hull vs. near the hull/deck bond so as to be out of harms way and less obtrusive
  • Cockpit cross sheeting - how has this been solved.
  • Other observations/suggestion - either from current owners, owners pending deliveries or potential future owners

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J 88 Owners - anyone given feedback to Team Johnstone about the following:

 

  • Dual Battery Configuration - why are they all mounted in the starboad stern locker. Why aren't the batteries split across the port and starboard aft areas - for better weight distribution
  • Port Stern compartment wiring harness - why is this midway up the hull vs. near the hull/deck bond so as to be out of harms way and less obtrusive
  • Cockpit cross sheeting - how has this been solved.
  • Other observations/suggestion - either from current owners, owners pending deliveries or potential future owners

You just did. I am sure they don't follow closely and they'd never answer directly, but they (and some J dealers) follow comments here at some frequency...

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You just did. I am sure they don't follow closely and they'd never answer directly, but they (and some J dealers) follow comments here at some frequency...

I was a bit skeptical about that statement, but then I saw the updated options packages … indeed you are correct.

Options

 

• Opening ports on aft end of cabin facing the cockpit.

• Cockpit Dodger with side curtains.

• Black Powder-coated stanchions & rails.

• Wide Opening lifeline gates (P&S).

• V-berth Package with platform, two cushions and one swiveling reading light.

• Comfort Group Package – boom cover with J/88 logo, two cockpit cushions, and 4 padded lifeline covers.

• 110V Shore Power: 30amp shore power cord, deck receptacle, belowdecks breaker, Xantrex battery charger, AC panel, one 110v outlet, equipment leakage circuit interrupter (ELCI), galvanic isolator.

• Additional AGM Group 27 battery.

Chew Toy Anchor for Miniature Anchor Locker.

• Distinctive Amish Mantel for roasting marshmallows (and drying spinnaker between races.)

 

 

NOTICE: Specifications are subject to change prior to delivery due to deletions, additions or revisions in quantities, brand or

design at the sole discretion of J/Boats, Inc. Newport, RI

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J 88 Owners - anyone given feedback to Team Johnstone about the following:

  • Dual Battery Configuration - why are they all mounted in the starboad stern locker. Why aren't the batteries split across the port and starboard aft areas - for better weight distribution
  • Port Stern compartment wiring harness - why is this midway up the hull vs. near the hull/deck bond so as to be out of harms way and less obtrusive
  • Cockpit cross sheeting - how has this been solved.
  • Other observations/suggestion - either from current owners, owners pending deliveries or potential future owners

 

 

Dual Battery Config and Port Stern wiring harness: my guess, because it is easier in both cases. Since the port side also doubles as the lazarette this may pose a problem in the future. I wonder if there is an option to put enough slack in the wires to move it in the future.

 

Other observations/suggestions:

how is the standard rigging package? are the line the right length / diameter?

I am unfamiliar with the stock halyard clutch, how well do they hold the line w/o damaging it?

post-66960-0-92265700-1385203955_thumb.jpg

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Love the sense of humor here!

 

I know that there was never really an intent to have an "anchor" locker. J- started cutting away part of the pole tube on previous boats so that the bulk of any water drained to the anchor locker rather than to the forward cabin. The Harken furlers are not waterproof either so you need to contain the water. Note that a J-70 has a "floor" even though there is no locker hatch.

 

The J-70 furler carries the forestay load, but on the 88 the forestay passes through the furler with the chainplate down in the stem. Having a deck hatch makes sense when you can access the furler for maintenance and the forestay attachment.

 

For cross sheeting, I believe that the deck fairlead was moved aft from where it was on the first boat and one could easily attach a block to it if you want to cross sheet..

 

 

You just did. I am sure they don't follow closely and they'd never answer directly, but they (and some J dealers) follow comments here at some frequency...

I was a bit skeptical about that statement, but then I saw the updated options packages … indeed you are correct.

Options


• Opening ports on aft end of cabin facing the cockpit.
• Cockpit Dodger with side curtains.
• Black Powder-coated stanchions & rails.
• Wide Opening lifeline gates (P&S).
• V-berth Package with platform, two cushions and one swiveling reading light.
• Comfort Group Package – boom cover with J/88 logo, two cockpit cushions, and 4 padded lifeline covers.
• 110V Shore Power: 30amp shore power cord, deck receptacle, belowdecks breaker, Xantrex battery charger, AC panel, one 110v outlet, equipment leakage circuit interrupter (ELCI), galvanic isolator.
• Additional AGM Group 27 battery.

Chew Toy Anchor for Miniature Anchor Locker.

• Distinctive Amish Mantel for roasting marshmallows (and drying spinnaker between races.)

NOTICE: Specifications are subject to change prior to delivery due to deletions, additions or revisions in quantities, brand or
design at the sole discretion of J/Boats, Inc. Newport, RI

 

 

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Any more detail on cross sheeting?

 

It appears there was a SS padeye (to attach a block?) near the primary winch on #1, but at NIBS they told me it wouldn't be factory installed on subsequent boats, and I haven't seen it on pics of later hull #'s.

 

There was also a plastic deck jib sheet fairlead (lined up a few inches foreward of the cabin aft face) on #1, that appears to have moved aft about a foot on subsequent boats (#5 & #6 that I know of). I didn't think plastic fairleads were meant to be strong enough to attach blocks to, especially if you're trying to dramatically change load angle (like cross sheeting).

 

Just trying to understand what they are thinking re: cross sheeting (vs running around the leeward winch up to the windward winch).

For cross sheeting, I believe that the deck fairlead was moved aft from where it was on the first boat and one could easily attach a block to it if you want to cross sheet.

post-301-0-70540800-1385218947_thumb.jpg

post-301-0-49460400-1385218963_thumb.jpg

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The more I learn about this boat the more it reminds me of my 92 before I fixed some things. Like those batteries. They were in the way in that spot and although they balanced the fuel tank on the opposite side, the whole works was too far aft. I moved the batteries forward by the mast on my boat. There's a locker they fit into quite nicely.

 

I wouldn't stress over the cross-sheeting until you sail the boat. I found it wasn't any particular advantage and just slowed down my tacks. Also avoids the taco effect.

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To me, cross sheeting makes most sense if it goes diagonally from the lead to the winch on the other side. Going back to the cockpit and then to the other side is a much bigger hassle. I guess the Melges24 does it with grace, but I am not sure there are many others.

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I've seen #1 and #5 firsthand and pics of #6 and #7 here, and it sounds like #10 may be complete soon. Probably missed it (here), but I wonder where 2, 3, 4, 8 and 9 are?

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the insane amount of possibilities for electronics is giving me nausea. Here are my needs for the j/88.

 

Wind , speed and depth. (maybe more if available)

Mast bracket with at LEAST 2 displays.

 

 

Product ive been considering:

 

Raymarine wireless (tacktick)

B&G

Nexus

 

i need to make a decision around new years eve. We want all the parts to be able to install the whole system in the shed in february

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Raymarine wireless seems like a good product , but i have the feeling raymarine wont support the product for long.

 

I really like tacktick. But i dont want to outfit my boat with electronics that wont be supported in the next 5 years.

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Of the options you've outlined B&Gs, when correctly calibrated, will give you the highest quality data. They're more expensive and slightly more complicated but seem to be de-facto when you get to the top end of yachting.

 

Every time I've been on a boat with wireless instruments a person's cell phone is enough to mess with them.

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Tacktick - raymarine only bought them a couple of years ago, so I wouldn't worry about lack of support for quite awhile. In fact I would expect some greater integration and alignment between Tacktick and current NMEA2000 based tech first.

 

I'm at the back end of a year of putting tacktick mast displays on a legacy raymarine implementation, it's been great. Particularly the auto switching mode to give different displays for different course leg. The handheld remote is the jewel in the crown.

 

B and g - it looks to me like the progressive move over to NMEA2000 that started with Triton pushed on by their integration into the Navico ecosystem, now looks like bearing real fruit in the H5000 range. A Zeus touch 7/triton implementation looks like a real value proposition to me. Missing real wind calcs but loads of good stuff like laylines and sail steer, with options to expand into h5000

 

Nexus - I've been a real fan of this stuff in the past, as the middle ground between low and high cost, but it's all gone a bit quiet, and with b&g expanding downwards, that high power low cost proposition doesn't seam to stand up. It's the only system staying resolutely proprietary in its comms protocol, which is also limiting

 

That said, it's been all quiet for a year now since the Garmin purchase. At some stage I would expect nexus to go NMEA2000 and begin to leverage garmin interaction, including the Quartix watch, which would be awesome. But until then it's kind of looking last century.

 

With what's out there, and given you are installing in a nice controlled atmosphere, I'd go B&G, and that's despite a really positive tacktick experience.

 

Of course the other option is to just pick your favourite bits and integrate. How about Zeus plotter on the deck bulkhead, best price NMEA2000 transducers, with Tacktick remote and mast displays, it's a multicultural nirvana!

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As i believe Jungle Drum in the UK is #3

 

When we have our J 88 and When the B&G is installed with the wirles technology , i will let you know if we have any problems, I guess that evry crew member wants to log on... to see data. So it wil be a challenge.

I have no experience with the system so i am very curious,

On our old boat we had also the B&G there it was to complicated, the dealer told us it is much better now....

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Raymarine (TackTick) Micronet is fairly simple/stupid:

• can be installed while drinking beer

• a bad MFD can be swapped out in 30 seconds

• the only wires are for the Airmar Transducers and NMEA connection.

• NMEA is 0183 (use Actisense NGW-1 if you want two way NMEA 0183-2000 communication and is virtually plug and play)

• I've never needed to have a certified repair technician come onboard - the components are cheap enough to carry spares

• I find the backlighting to be insufficient for any distance more than about 3 meters - so mast mount will be hard to read at night on J88

 

 

Every time I've been on a boat with wireless instruments a person's cell phone is enough to mess with them.

Hmm, we've never experienced this problem. Probably because we don't have people texting on the rail while racing ...

 

Will my mobile phone or any other similar technology interfere with my Micronet system?

The radio frequency of the Micronet instrument range is close to that of GSM Mobile telephones but not close enough for interference to occur under normal circumstances.

If your boat is moored directly below a mobile telephone mast then it is possible that some interference could occur.

Due to international radio licensing restrictions Micronet is forced to operate on different frequencies in different locations:

916MHz - USA / Australasia

869MHz - Europe / Africa

Although Micronet systems will operate in any region of the world using the wrong frequency could lead to interference from other transmitting equipment in that region. All Micronet transmitters (Hull, Wind, NMEA, etc.) are Global Frequency and will work on either of the two frequencies automatically. Micronet displays can be switched from one frequency to the other via the keypad.

A quick look at Wikipedia Cellular Frequencies confirms this, unless you are using CMDA in Japan.

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Every time I've been on a boat with wireless instruments a person's cell phone is enough to mess with them.

Hmm, we've never experienced this problem. Probably because we don't have people texting on the rail while racing ...

So that's the way to beat deviation?

 

Still... someones phone goes off down below or they leave their bluetooth on and the instruments go poof for a few minutes...

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Every time I've been on a boat with wireless instruments a person's cell phone is enough to mess with them.

 

Hmm, we've never experienced this problem. Probably because we don't have people texting on the rail while racing ...
So that's the way to beat deviation?

 

Still... someones phone goes off down below or they leave their bluetooth on and the instruments go poof for a few minutes...

We race with atleast 8 phones on board, and I think some the fuckers are texting! Or atleast face booking, we also run a phone and iPad connected to the wifi, not a twitch from the instruments.

 

We're running the single maxi displays on the mast of a 43 footer and found the size and night light all good. I would say on a 88 you could go to the dual maxi.

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We're running the single maxi displays on the mast of a 43 footer and found the size and night light all good. I would say on a 88 you could go to the dual maxi.

I was referring to the standard displays ... I can drink a lot of beer for the price of a dual maxi, they are lit differently and seem superior

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First J88 for NorCal lands next Tues. I'll keep ya'll posted. Will try to get pics prior to launch.

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First J88 for NorCal lands next Tues. I'll keep ya'll posted. Will try to get pics prior to launch.

hull #? MidPack will want to know ...

 

Also, will you be racing this winter? we "need" something to post about after the Hamble Winter Series ...

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The owner will race, not sure how much. Different sail setup. North Dacron main, 3di jib and AP kite.

 

I'll snap pics when it's sitting on the truck and once it's wet. Unsure of the hull number. We have 3 on order.

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The owner will race, not sure how much. Different sail setup. North Dacron main, 3di jib and AP kite.

I'll snap pics when it's sitting on the truck and once it's wet. Unsure of the hull number. We have 3 on order.

Dacron main and 3Di jib - that makes no fucking sense

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The owner will race, not sure how much. Different sail setup. North Dacron main, 3di jib and AP kite.

I'll snap pics when it's sitting on the truck and once it's wet. Unsure of the hull number. We have 3 on order.

Dacron main and 3Di jib - that makes no fucking sense

What's wrong with you?

Sure it does, otherwise all the ownwers will have nothing to go to the PHRF comm about to complain they can't win :P

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John, you really need some new material.

 

As posted elsewhere, I think the Dacron main makes sense for most normal people on a 29' boat. I don't get the 3Di jib though, unless he got a heckuva deal on it. I'm a fan of the 3DL 680's for club racing. Funny thing is, my North rep probably sold him the 3Di.

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The owner will race, not sure how much. Different sail setup. North Dacron main, 3di jib and AP kite.

I'll snap pics when it's sitting on the truck and once it's wet. Unsure of the hull number. We have 3 on order.

 

Dacron main and 3Di jib - that makes no fucking sense

What's wrong with you?

Sure it does, otherwise all the ownwers will have nothing to go to the PHRF comm about to complain they can't win :P

There is that.............

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In the M24's for a while the Sharkskin Dacron was considered the way to go. In that class sails are replaced regularly anyway. In my personal opinion I would go full panelled kevlar or even full mylar rather than dacron main, 3di jib for race sails which does seem a rather bizarre combination.

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Christian.....We've been using the same material (albeit lighter weight) in our J70 main for a season and a half. Our demo boat sails 3-4 days a week and the main is still rockin. We're very happy with it. Talk to Mr. Ullman about Dacron Mains. He's of some opinion about it all.

 

Not sure the owners thoughts though there is some logic to a dacron main, on a smallish boat, in an area where it can regularly puff over 30.

 

We'll see how it holds up. I think the 3di was purchased at a favorable price and the owner was told he'd get 2-3 seasons out of it (yeah....right)

 

We (I) don't sell the client their sails, we just facilitate what they want.

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Christian.....We've been using the same material (albeit lighter weight) in our J70 main for a season and a half. Our demo boat sails 3-4 days a week and the main is still rockin. We're very happy with it. Talk to Mr. Ullman about Dacron Mains.

An interesting POV by someone who arguably knows more than any of us given his racing resume. Note the boat the link refers to.

 

http://www.ullmansails.com/onedesign.aspx?q=27

 

I've heard other notable sailors make this argument more than once before.

Why a Dacron Mainsail?

 

Other sailmakers build their Melges 24 mainsails out of laminate material, but the Ullman Sails Melges mainsail uses woven Dacron, which has proven to be fastest and easiest to use across the wind range.

 

Automatic shift.

 

Because we've arranged the crosscut panel orientation to place the cloth's threadline slightly off the load path in the critical upper-batten area of the mainsail, the leech automatically opens the right amount in gusts and as the wind builds -- an important adjustment that mainsails made of laminate material do not make.

 

Goes faster, longer.

 

Finally, the "Shark" model mainsail not only goes through the wind range better and easier (letting you concentrate on racing instead of sail tweaking), the woven Dacron material holds its shape longer than laminate mainsails.

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Christian.....We've been using the same material (albeit lighter weight) in our J70 main for a season and a half. Our demo boat sails 3-4 days a week and the main is still rockin. We're very happy with it. Talk to Mr. Ullman about Dacron Mains. He's of some opinion about it all.

Not sure the owners thoughts though there is some logic to a dacron main, on a smallish boat, in an area where it can regularly puff over 30.

We'll see how it holds up. I think the 3di was purchased at a favorable price and the owner was told he'd get 2-3 seasons out of it (yeah....right)

We (I) don't sell the client their sails, we just facilitate what they want.

Now don't be blind to the fact that the more Dacron sails Dave can get out on boats the more sails he sells.

 

My main point was that a 3Di jib and Dacron main is a really weird choice - either the owner has some "special" talent or he got some bad advice

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Our first set of sails for the J88 wil be from flex aramid a crosscut layout with FLX 15 black , after a half year and some testing there will be a second set , a membrame set will be made, probably carbon.

Then the first set we be used for testing , deliveries.

If you want to sail regattas this boat it absolute worth the investments . For cruising a good quality Dacron is perfect. these days they are pretty strong and wil hold up there shape reasonable . when you put some excellent battens , you got a great sail.

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I was under the impression that the Dacron on ullman m24 mains were due to the alum mast and ability to buy new sets or have them refurbished often. I would think Dacron would be ok for j70, but I don't understand it on the j80 that I think has more roach, and therefore more leach tension. But then again, Dacron can be made pretty strong, it is just heavier that way. I'm guessing 3di jib is nice, and stands up well. And a 3di main is prolly a bigger pemium.

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question, thinking about a code-0 for long distance cruising , has anyone experience or hints when puting this on the bow sprit only a 30 cm (12 inch) outside , and put a code-0 on it ?

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question, thinking about a code-0 for long distance cruising , has anyone experience or hints when puting this on the bow sprit only a 30 cm (12 inch) outside , and put a code-0 on it ?

go for the full zero

My source (truly an accomplished sailor) says an A3 or Code 0 (something for the mid range AWA) will be the "killer app" for handicap racing the J/88 for Port2Party racing (more than buoy racing). It appears A2 is 95sqm and A3 is 80sqm for the J/88.

 

Being in a PtP race or "long distance cruising" where TWA is in the wide gap between running and close hauled with nothing but a full runner and upwind headsails really, really sucks. Trying to "pinch" with an A2 is no fun at all, we've tried too many times.

 

It may depend on where you live, but for me order of importance for J/88 sail inventory:

1) Main, AP jib, A2

2) A3

3) Heavy jib

4) Code 0/1/2

 

FWIW...

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Hi. Before you all go too crazy, NO, the sprit will not handle a Code 0. An A3 in any kind of seaway would be suspect as well.

 

Clearly the conversation is going to come up with this boat so I will ask the engineer about the sprit if there was a bobstay. JBoats would be the people to ask about a hole in the knuckle. The pole out line would have to be upgraded as well as potentially the cleat which holds it. The supplied tack line would be okay and I believe it currently goes to a clutch? For offshore in general it would not hurt to have a bobstay. Since the pole garage is so accessible in the bow locker I can see it possible to drill a hole to pin the sprit in the out position, allowing you to tighten the bobstay, etc, etc.

 

Will let you know what I find out about the tube itself.

 

Mark

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Hi. Before you all go too crazy, NO, the sprit will not handle a Code 0. An A3 in any kind of seaway would be suspect as well.

 

Clearly the conversation is going to come up with this boat so I will ask the engineer about the sprit if there was a bobstay. JBoats would be the people to ask about a hole in the knuckle. The pole out line would have to be upgraded as well as potentially the cleat which holds it. The supplied tack line would be okay and I believe it currently goes to a clutch? For offshore in general it would not hurt to have a bobstay. Since the pole garage is so accessible in the bow locker I can see it possible to drill a hole to pin the sprit in the out position, allowing you to tighten the bobstay, etc, etc.

 

Will let you know what I find out about the tube itself.

 

Mark

We/I look forward to hearing what you find out, thanks. But you realize many J/Sprit models beginning with the J/105 (20 yrs) have flown A3's in all sorts of conditions, and I've never seen one with a bobstay on the factory sprit (though some probably exist). And Quantum (their website shows 8 to 30 knots TWS for an A3) and North are already recommending/have sold A3's for the J/88 as well.

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I also know North reps who add 10% to our dock tune jack numbers and most of the time that is just fine. It does depend on what they are calling an A3 on a J88. An offshore, laminate A3 would most likely win over the sprit.

 

I will let you know what the Hall company line is so people know which number to call when a sprit breaks.

 

Mark

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First SF Bay J88 Hits the water! If you want to test sail one...let me know!

 

Two more coming.

 

post-23955-0-48938200-1386444047_thumb.jpg

 

post-23955-0-72913500-1386444023_thumb.jpg

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@Markvannote bobstay absolutely. Based on how much I've seen the recent J/Sprits flex it's an all around good idea no matter whether you're flying.

 

@MidPack the zero is absolutely necessary for any distance racing at all. Super high aspect jibs don't reach worth a damn so having something powerful to fill the hole between jib and Asym is crucial. So far I've found that the 111 and 122 really love/need the power in light stuff and have seen very flat cut zeros used to great effect for semi-upwind work in ultralight conditions on those boats.

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Hi. Before you all go too crazy, NO, the sprit will not handle a Code 0. An A3 in any kind of seaway would be suspect as well.

Interesting ... certainly if the J88 pole was not designed for a Code 0 then you'd want to consult with Jboats and Hall before you crank on the halyard banjo string tight.

 

As far as the Code 3A, I would suspect the folks at Jboats probably know a thing or two about boat design. I'm guessing the strength to weight ratio of the pole bending to displacement for a J70 or J88 are probably a factor or so higher than that of a J111 or J122. Thus when an 3A is pulling hard enough to brake the pole, it's probably lifting the boat and unloading pretty quick, like I said, just an unscientific wild ass guess.

 

 

 

if all the boats are sailing one-design, then the last one to break their pole wins :)

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so what would happen if you don't use full length of sprit ? tension ia a lot les ,

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Hi. Before you all go too crazy, NO, the sprit will not handle a Code 0. An A3 in any kind of seaway would be suspect as well.

Interesting ... certainly if the J88 pole was not designed for a Code 0 then you'd want to consult with Jboats and Hall before you crank on the halyard banjo string tight.

 

As far as the Code 3A, I would suspect the folks at Jboats probably know a thing or two about boat design. I'm guessing the strength to weight ratio of the pole bending to displacement for a J70 or J88 are probably a factor or so higher than that of a J111 or J122. Thus when an 3A is pulling hard enough to brake the pole, it's probably lifting the boat and unloading pretty quick, like I said, just an unscientific wild ass guess.

 

 

 

if all the boats are sailing one-design, then the last one to break their pole wins :)

 

False. It's sailing in breezy conditions and burying the bow into a wave so hard that the boat stops and the kite keeps going.

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Maybe not a true C0 but somebody fucked up if the boat cannot handle an A0 (maybe needing a jock strap) or at least an A3 - we do that on the Viper - no problem even without a jock strap

Hi. Before you all go too crazy, NO, the sprit will not handle a Code 0. An A3 in any kind of seaway would be suspect as well.

 

Clearly the conversation is going to come up with this boat so I will ask the engineer about the sprit if there was a bobstay. JBoats would be the people to ask about a hole in the knuckle. The pole out line would have to be upgraded as well as potentially the cleat which holds it. The supplied tack line would be okay and I believe it currently goes to a clutch? For offshore in general it would not hurt to have a bobstay. Since the pole garage is so accessible in the bow locker I can see it possible to drill a hole to pin the sprit in the out position, allowing you to tighten the bobstay, etc, etc.

 

Will let you know what I find out about the tube itself.

 

Mark

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Blur does that stop the pole being retracted fully ? If so do you remove it for OD racing as I understand the rule is that the pole must be retracted fully, i.e. behind the bow

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I am just going to repeat since my original post may have been confusing. Also keep in mind that I am a hall employee posting on an Internet forum without prior knowledge from an engineer. I am not going to tell you just send it and let me know what happens.

 

Code 0 no. This was a conversation at the office months ago. The laminate was what we were asked to make. I mentioned the A3 being suspect as well in my opinion. This is because the A3 on the boat that I race on is the angriest on the boat and would probably break the sprit before the Code 0 because of the conditions we hoist it in.

 

I will let you all know what the engineers say.

 

Mark

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First SF Bay J88 Hits the water! If you want to test sail one...let me know!

Two more coming.

Beautiful, thanks!

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I am just going to repeat since my original post may have been confusing. Also keep in mind that I am a hall employee posting on an Internet forum without prior knowledge from an engineer. I am not going to tell you just send it and let me know what happens.

Code 0 no. This was a conversation at the office months ago. The laminate was what we were asked to make. I mentioned the A3 being suspect as well in my opinion. This is because the A3 on the boat that I race on is the angriest on the boat and would probably break the sprit before the Code 0 because of the conditions we hoist it in.

I will let you all know what the engineers say.

Mark

Very much looking forward to your findings, but I suspect your management will cc: J/Boats, North and Quantum at least. If I buy a J/88, I will want one option for TWA between an AP jib and an A2.

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One of the things you have to bring into your calculations is max righting moment for the boat. On my boat we will simply lay the boat over before we can load the sprit anything close to critical. Somewhat of the same will be the case with the J88. You probably wouldn't be able to pile enough beef on the rail to severely load the boat up with an A0 or A3. A true C0 is probably a different matter though as the luff tension needed is substantial

I am just going to repeat since my original post may have been confusing. Also keep in mind that I am a hall employee posting on an Internet forum without prior knowledge from an engineer. I am not going to tell you just send it and let me know what happens.

Code 0 no. This was a conversation at the office months ago. The laminate was what we were asked to make. I mentioned the A3 being suspect as well in my opinion. This is because the A3 on the boat that I race on is the angriest on the boat and would probably break the sprit before the Code 0 because of the conditions we hoist it in.

I will let you all know what the engineers say.

Mark

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Blur does that stop the pole being retracted fully ? If so do you remove it for OD racing as I understand the rule is that the pole must be retracted fully, i.e. behind the bow

 

Not att all. Dyneema ring (1) slides freely on the sprit. We tried it out by just making one of 10 mm Dyneema, but then got a custom made with black technora cover.

 

(2) is a thin Dyneema line that holds it in the right place (could use tackline or second tackline as on Django). (3) is a fixed length bobstay. When everything is correct the small Titan ring, where we connect the code, should end up on port side of the sprit = on centerline, keeping most of the pressure on the bobstay and not the sprit.

PastedGraphic-11.jpg'

Works great. Tackline works as usual and peeling is super easy. Also the distance is short enoughto reach out and connect/disconnect the code. And everything can be removed.

 

Only issue is that you need to get a 2:1 halyard.

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False. It's sailing in breezy conditions and burying the bow into a wave so hard that the boat stops and the kite keeps going.

and your experience racing asyms less than 400 stone is?

Amazing you don't have a line of yacht designers beating down your door asking for advice.

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False. It's sailing in breezy conditions and burying the bow into a wave so hard that the boat stops and the kite keeps going.

and your experience racing asyms less than 400 stone is?

Amazing you don't have a line of yacht designers beating down your door asking for advice.

To be frank: a bunch more than yours bill.

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Blur does that stop the pole being retracted fully ? If so do you remove it for OD racing as I understand the rule is that the pole must be retracted fully, i.e. behind the bow

Not att all. Dyneema ring (1) slides freely on the sprit. We tried it out by just making one of 10 mm Dyneema, but then got a custom made with black technora cover.

 

(2) is a thin Dyneema line that holds it in the right place (could use tackline or second tackline as on Django). (3) is a fixed length bobstay. When everything is correct the small Titan ring, where we connect the code, should end up on port side of the sprit = on centerline, keeping most of the pressure on the bobstay and not the sprit.

PastedGraphic-11.jpg'

Works great. Tackline works as usual and peeling is super easy. Also the distance is short enoughto reach out and connect/disconnect the code. And everything can be removed.

 

Only issue is that you need to get a 2:1 halyard.

Clever

 

Do you have ropes dangling in the water when retracted, or do they stay out of the way?

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Clever

 

Do you have ropes dangling in the water when retracted, or do they stay out of the way?

 

Nope. Just spoils an otherwise clean look. A winter project is to make the bobstay retract into the anchor locker when not in use :)

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Clever

Do you have ropes dangling in the water when retracted, or do they stay out of the way?

Nope. Just spoils an otherwise clean look. A winter project is to make the bobstay retract into the anchor locker when not in use :)

A swan 42 that used to race in our area had a bobstay that retracted into the sprit through a hole in the end, looked really neat but I imagine you'd need to find a strong anchor point on the bulkhead of the boat or somewhere strong inside or on the back of the sprit while leaving enough bobstay to splice shock cord into to retract it

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False. It's sailing in breezy conditions and burying the bow into a wave so hard that the boat stops and the kite keeps going.

and your experience racing asyms less than 400 stone is?

Amazing you don't have a line of yacht designers beating down your door asking for advice.

To be frank: a bunch more than yours bill.

heh heh heh, I was sailing a Hendo when you were dreaming of sailing an opti.

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great idea, i just asked J if it would be posibel on the J88 if i have an answer i will let you know.

 

On the J/111 we tack the C0 to a small bridle/dyneema loop about 1 meter out (ok with J/boats). As said you might need to look at the pole out line.

 

Here's the setup on #1 Django: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=111369&p=4223770

And on #69 Blur: http://www.blur.se/2012/06/28/j111-blur%C2%B3-downwind-sails/

 

j111_downwind_sails-c0furler-16.jpg

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I've sailed on a number of 111's in the Solent and offshore and in my experience an A3 is fine without a bobstay. Although if you are sailing very tight in big winds there will be a fair bit of pole flex but in 3 years I have not seen a failure. On the offshore J/111 I sailed on we had a full pole length 0 and that definitely did require a bobstay.

 

I've seen 2 ways of setting them up, one was a hole in the bow into the anchor locker with an adjustable purchase system in there for adjustments. The other was fixed length and just tied off to a hole drilled through the knuckle with some bungie to keep it out the water.

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This is interesting. We all know that J/Sprit boats have sailed with A3's in all sorts of conditions and wind angles for over 20 years. The original J/105 chute was more like an A3 than today's fuller A2, so they could be carried higher presumably. I assume the early sprits were designed/spec'd with a considerable safety factor since it was new territory, and they may still be. Obviously J/Boats and Hall know exactly.

 

But J/sprit boat owners have bought hundreds if not thousands of purpose built A3's. No disrespect to the Hall employee above, I truly look forward to hearing what he finds. No one should come out categorically to say no A3's, C0's or other "tweener" sails, obviously in less than 10/15 knots and any reasonable sea state you could fly anything you like. Seems more sensible for J/Boats, Hall and sailmakers to have published wind ranges and approved setup (tack location and hardware) for A3's, C0's, etc. And I'd bet they've done just that with any customer who's gone that route all along, it's just not widely publicized for whatever reason (though Quantum has shown wind range for their J/88 A3 of 8 to 30 knots).

 

I'd want an A3, so I'm most interested...

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No disrespect to the Hall employee above, I truly look forward to hearing what he finds.

 

FYI, he's one of the best riggers anywhere

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With some experience from the J/109 and the J/111 we have no issues at all running a oversize A2 up to 24 knots or a masthead A5 (A3) up to 34 knots. Lot of flex in the sprit, but my observation is that the sail and the crew breaks before the sprit does :)

 

The number we got from J/boats was that the J/111 sprit is made to take 4 tons at the end, fully extended, and I would think the J/88 sprit is comparable oversized as smaller boats are driven harder with less load. But I'm sure J/boats can confirm this.

 

Just drive it like you stole it!

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Voile magazine awarded second place to the J/88 for boat of the year , in front of the pogo 30!

 

General comments in the reviews was that very well balanced and the hull is a superb design. They said it was a little pricey , but its expected coming from Jboat. I will post the article soon.

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Voile magazine awarded second place to the J/88 for boat of the year , in front of the pogo 30!

 

Who won?

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Voile magazine awarded second place to the J/88 for boat of the year , in front of the pogo 30!

 

Who won?

sorry , I tought i wrote it , its the new Dehler 38

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According to UK Sails 11-11-13 Newsletter hull J/88 #007 ("It's a Thrill" or "License to Thrill" not sure which) has a Code 0 designed by Pedro Giannotti.

 

Anyone talk to them about how it is rigged (and if they have broken their pole yet )?

That would be my J/88. No broken pole! But we haven't used the Code 0 on any long reaching legs yet. We sailed the boat in our J/Fest Southwest even first weekend of November and have been on the hard since. Sailed the boat in gusts up to high 20's on Saturday, a little tamer on Sunday. It's a lot of fun! Can't wait to get more time on her.

 

I do like some of the ideas above with the sliding dyneema to support the pole. We did fly the Code 0, but only deployed the pole about 3/4 of the way at most. We didn't notice much if any deflection-but weren't power reaching in 20 either.

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Almost no sailing footage, but the best J/88 sales/promo video I've seen. Jeff J is a great spokesman IMO, always has been...

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That would be my J/88. No broken pole! But we haven't used the Code 0 on any long reaching legs yet. We sailed the boat in our J/Fest Southwest even first weekend of November and have been on the hard since. Sailed the boat in gusts up to high 20's on Saturday, a little tamer on Sunday. It's a lot of fun! Can't wait to get more time on her.

 

I do like some of the ideas above with the sliding dyneema to support the pole. We did fly the Code 0, but only deployed the pole about 3/4 of the way at most. We didn't notice much if any deflection-but weren't power reaching in 20 either.

Congrats on the boat. I'm not much concerned about an A3 on the J/88, but the more I read, the more I gather the Code 0 requires some caution - luff tension vs sprit flex as we all know.

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Almost no sailing footage, but the best J/88 sales/promo video I've seen. Jeff J is a great spokesman IMO, always has been...

I had the chance to meet him when visiting the factory back in July . A gentleman !

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Almost no sailing footage, but the best J/88 sales/promo video I've seen. Jeff J is a great spokesman IMO, always has been...
I had the chance to meet him when visiting the factory back in July . A gentleman !
I've talked to most of the Johnstone's at boat shows over the years, they all made good impressions, all great sailors in their own right. I tried to respect their time, but they've always taken more time and been more candid with me than I ever expected. One of the reasons we're repeat J/Boat customers. I did a brief group demo sail on a J/105 at NIBS in the early 90's, IIRC Jeff was the one who took us out...

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Just want to say a couple of things on Sprit Design. Hall engineered this sprit, not I, but I have engineered a lot of boats.

 

The mechanics of sprit design are very similar to a rudder stock. Simply a lever with the load countered by inner bearing point with the sum of those loads on the exit bearing point. It is pretty easy to figure the sailing load at any given wind speed. However, loads increase with the 4th power of wind speed. All sails have an effective wind range and one hopes that the crew knows that range and stays within it. The problem is that, particularly with Code Zero's, you can overload easily. How many times are you on the edge of keeping the sail full trying to make a mark that is not all that far away? Wind builds and you keep the sail up past the point where you should have changed sails. AWA goes forward and the sail collapses and fills again with a bang.

 

How much extra as a safety factor you allow for? A rudder is a very critical component whereas breaking a sprit is less serious. Where do you draw the line on an boat for coastal or inshore use? Do you make the pole way heavy or let those who want to fly a code zero add a bobstay?

 

I am fairly confident that with an added bobstay, the sprit will function well with a code zero. There are several fairly simple inexpensive ways to anchor one in the stem. Your dealer can certainly work it out with or through Alan. Mark may come back and report that Hall engineering says you don't need one, but there is little weight or cost involved in adding the bobstay so why not do it?

 

As promised I am getting some real numbers from the engineering department. I hope to have something today.

 

Thanks.

Mark

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Sorry this took so long to get. The boys in the engineering office are quite busy no matter what time of year.

 

The sprit for the J88 has a static working load of 675 lbs. At that load you should have 2.5" of deflection. Dynamic loading you should see a spike of two times that. We would expect to see the tube start to buckle at the hull entry point around 1800-2000lbs of load at the tip.

 

Regarding the Code 0, I am guessing the tack load will not meet the buckling load but will certainly exceed safe working. If it were my boat I would have a bobstay for both safety and sail trim. A Code 0 will just not be effective if the tip of the sprit is moving inches on each wave. The luff will be all over the place as well as the leech shutting down again and again.

 

In the end, if you buy the boat the sprit is yours and you can hoist whatever sail your sailmaker sells you. I hope the information above is helpful in your decisions.

 

Thanks.

Mark

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Sorry this took so long to get. The boys in the engineering office are quite busy no matter what time of year.

 

The sprit for the J88 has a static working load of 675 lbs. At that load you should have 2.5" of deflection. Dynamic loading you should see a spike of two times that. We would expect to see the tube start to buckle at the hull entry point around 1800-2000lbs of load at the tip.

 

Regarding the Code 0, I am guessing the tack load will not meet the buckling load but will certainly exceed safe working. If it were my boat I would have a bobstay for both safety and sail trim. A Code 0 will just not be effective if the tip of the sprit is moving inches on each wave. The luff will be all over the place as well as the leech shutting down again and again.

 

In the end, if you buy the boat the sprit is yours and you can hoist whatever sail your sailmaker sells you. I hope the information above is helpful in your decisions.

 

Thanks.

Mark

Thanks for stepping up to the plate and proactively giving us some objective information by which to make our own decisions. Hall Spars has always been a class act and industry leader, I've always had great experience with Hall myself.

 

Looks like blur solution makes a lot of sense, no surprise from them.

 

Hopefully sailmakers have the same information, I'd think they would caution boat owners about the risks of a Code Zero from a fully extended sprit. Interestingly the Seascape 27 video here a few days ago appeared to show a Code Zero tacked at the end of a fully extended sprit with no (bob stay) support. [Presumably not from Hall, and for all we know that sprit was designed for it.]

 

Caveat emptor...as it should be.

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Thanks for the response mark. It's like the old days of SA!

 

Drive safe out there, roads in B are super slippery this afternoon.

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For sure North has this information. We worked very closely with Tim Dawson during the design stages. We were both on for the sea trial and he was on for more sessions during the tuning development along with Chuck Allen who was taking pictures from off the boat. I do not know if Quantum has been in touch with is or not but they are sure to be fairly dialed in by now if not soon.

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great info, from evryone , nice to read al this thanks all

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