Old Motel

Manhasset Fall Series

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Blah, blah, blah! ;)

And more blah, blah, blah B)

That's all great Johnnie, but what is this room crap about?

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C'mon espo At least give them credit for being ahead of you for 15 seconds the entire regatta

I would except they were over early :P

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?? we need resolution...........................

 

Free willy

Free Spirit

Free Beer

Free Hustler

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we do need resolution-this actually has some bearing on final results for the entire season --not quite sure of all the details, and frankly don't care--the race committee needs to handle it, make a definitive decision in a timely manner. Or don't and some folks hard work all season will not be acknowledged. Tick Tock!

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Well it would seem the person asked to take the lead has dropped the ball. MBYC needs to change horses to get this brought to a head and resolved.

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we do need resolution-this actually has some bearing on final results for the entire season --not quite sure of all the details, and frankly don't care--the race committee needs to handle it, make a definitive decision in a timely manner. Or don't and some folks hard work all season will not be acknowledged. Tick Tock!

MBYC created this situation by accepting a protest that was filed six days late. Hustler was notified on the second Saturday that they were being protested for their weight during the first weekend. At least that's how it was communicated to us.

 

They really should rectify it.

 

More importantly though, it's pathetic that Smokin J would actually file the protest considering the Bush League caliber skills they displayed over the three days of racing. They should be ashamed of themselves.

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Regardless of Smokin J's skills or lack thereof, the NOR states protests to be filed within one hour of RC boat at dock. What facts were brought to light over a six day period that warranted accepting the protest at that late date? Did Espo's true body mass index come to light? Though he appears to be svelte and trim , is there a secret addiction to uranium based pasta dishes that has put him at 400 pounds on the PHRF scale?

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Well it would seem the person asked to take the lead has dropped the ball. MBYC needs to change horses to get this brought to a head and resolved.

If seletted I wille searve, I wille tacke thisse bulle by the horms an worke foura quicke fare ressilutione.

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Did Espo's true body mass index come to light? Though he appears to be svelte and trim , is there a secret addiction to uranium based pasta dishes that has put him at 400 pounds on the PHRF scale?

Plesae dointe starte the roomer mille, sipple mindes our eazilley led asstraye.

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Well at this point there is no way to prove the case unless the entire crew was gathered for a weigh in. Since the second Saturday crew was different from the 1st Saturday and Sunday crew, there is no real way to accomplish this as you can't really compel folks to drive in from New Jersey and Rhode Island solely for the purposes of a weigh in ..... and doubly so several weeks after the fact.

Big mistake allowing this to get this far. Big mistake having a former Commodore of the protestor's club act as PC chair. Big mistake not impaneling a jury to hear the case immediately after the racing concluded on the second Saturday.

You have to wonder how they will resolve this having painted themselves in a corner.

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Well at this point there is no way to prove the case unless the entire crew was gathered for a weigh in. Since the second Saturday crew was different from the 1st Saturday and Sunday crew, there is no real way to accomplish this as you can't really compel folks to drive in from New Jersey and Rhode Island solely for the purposes of a weigh in ..... and doubly so several weeks after the fact.

Big mistake allowing this to get this far. Big mistake having a former Commodore of the protestor's club act as PC chair. Big mistake not impaneling a jury to hear the case immediately after the racing concluded on the second Saturday.

You have to wonder how they will resolve this having painted themselves in a corner.

Sonds licke you wante settelle a proteste on heare againe, prossess needes be follode. Coolle heades need to perservalle an dpush forwarde, dam the histericks. :)

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It's a good thing the Rating Certificate was changed in the middle of the regatta:

Certifcate History *****************
10/27/2014 - Change summary:
Updated by:rroyce
field_meas_crew_weight changed from 1260 to 1440
field_rate_spin_adj_wl changed from 114 to 111
field_rate_spin_adj_dis changed from 114 to 111
field_adj_max_crew_wgt changed from 1260 to 1440
field_adj_crew_wgt_spin_wl changed from to -3
field_adj_crew_wgt_spin_dis changed from to -3

 

It is uncommon that a protest between competitors due to a violation a PHRF certificate heard; it is rarely handled well.

 

Sailing with a different sail configuration than on your PHRF Certificate, structural changes to the boat unreported or understated, or a crew sailing overweight are all difficult to handle in the protest room. Acceptance of the measurement rules we sail under is a fundamental rule of fairness we sail by. It is difficult to establish that these principals are violated when the PHRF Certificate rules are not strictly and uniformly enforced.

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Rating is allowed to be changed once a season. Rating was changed due to crew change out between weekends and to allow for the original owner to sail that day (the last day of the season) if his health permitted.

It's a good thing the Rating Certificate was changed in the middle of the regatta:

Certifcate History *****************
10/27/2014 - Change summary:
Updated by:rroyce
field_meas_crew_weight changed from 1260 to 1440
field_rate_spin_adj_wl changed from 114 to 111
field_rate_spin_adj_dis changed from 114 to 111
field_adj_max_crew_wgt changed from 1260 to 1440
field_adj_crew_wgt_spin_wl changed from to -3
field_adj_crew_wgt_spin_dis changed from to -3

 

It is uncommon that a protest between competitors due to a violation a PHRF certificate heard; it is rarely handled well.

 

Sailing with a different sail configuration than on your PHRF Certificate, structural changes to the boat unreported or understated, or a crew sailing overweight are all difficult to handle in the protest room. Acceptance of the measurement rules we sail under is a fundamental rule of fairness we sail by. It is difficult to establish that these principals are violated when the PHRF Certificate rules are not strictly and uniformly enforced.

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'Regardless of Smokin J's skills or lack thereof, the NOR states protests to be filed within one hour of RC boat at the dock'

 

 

Now that's funny! A sudden regard for what the NOR says. Bravo! What language was it written in and is that the official RRS language as amended by the local L.I. dialect in the location of the racing area?

 

Were any race organizers brought to tears?

 

All protests were disallowed or dropped. Nothing to see here at the end of the day.

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Just pointing that out Edith so you can begin an obsessive campaign on social media and make the people who spend countless volunteer hours putting together these events wonder why they do it. Issues not resolved as of Friday so don't know where you getting your intel, but it's incorrect.

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Edith (and her causes) are becoming more and more irrelevant by the day.

 

 

Oh and what Bill said.... except it isn't really up to the OA of a given regatta to enforce PHRF Certificate rules violations IIRC. It falls upon "The Class Measurer" and for PHRF that is the chair of the PHRF committee. Don't know what the current chair's involvement level is here, but in the past it was weaker than need be.

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Edith (and her causes) are becoming more and more irrelevant by the day.

when was she relevant??

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well if its still alive, then somebody fibbed.

and no social media necessary. These people will answer the phone.

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I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you, that someone would purposefully mislead the great and omnipotent Mooooo, errrrr, Edith Bicknell.

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Will, Neil and Espo have been at weight watchers for the last two weeks in preparation for the hearing!

 

And Espo is ALOT lighter than you think..........fat is MUCH lighter than muscle!

 

Ha ha, just kidding boys, I feel your pain, been there myself and its fucking bullshit. You guys deserved the win. Fuck em.

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I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you, that someone would purposefully mislead the great and omnipotent Mooooo, errrrr, Edith Bicknell.

Our you suggusteng Mr.edithe a cowe? Shamfulle.

 

 

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I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you, that someone would purposefully mislead the great and omnipotent Mooooo, errrrr, Edith Bicknell.

Our you suggusteng Mr.edithe a cowe ? Shamfulle.

 

 

cowe moose

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Oh now this thread has turned utterly udderly ridiculous!

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Ultimately, we need PHRF COPS. An independent law enforcement body, in some tricked out Pursuit with 500 hp, internet access, cruising up and down the Sound , able to evaluate crew weights from afar, check on sail configuration and rig compliance, certificate filled out correctly and a powerful water cannon mounted on the bow ready to soak offenders, render their sails soaking wet kleenex, dousing the guilty with soggy shame for all to see.....

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PHRF Pump-outs. They can run around between races asking boats if they have any bullshit on board.

 

could look sort of like this....

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PHRF Pump-outs. They can run around between races asking boats if they have any bullshit on board.

 

could look sort of like this....

Everyone would be fucked

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Ultimately, we need PHRF COPS. An independent law enforcement body, in some tricked out Pursuit with 500 hp, internet access, cruising up and down the Sound , able to evaluate crew weights from afar, check on sail configuration and rig compliance, certificate filled out correctly and a powerful water cannon mounted on the bow ready to soak offenders, render their sails soaking wet kleenex, dousing the guilty with soggy shame for all to see.....

This sounds like a job for me. Give me one of those BAYWATCH scarabs and I'll drive around the course examining the sailors' bodies. I only have to check the cute ones right?

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Well the way I see it is that the process of protesting for a PHRF Certificate violation is poorly handled/cumbersome at best. Essentially one is protesting for a class rules violation with the class being PHRF. So in order for this sort of protest to proceed, you really need "the class measurer" to rule on whether or not the class rules have been violated. Wrt YRALIS, it has been demonstrated in the past that they are reluctant (being kind) to get properly involved or engaged in that capacity. So it seems to me, and feel free to correct me if I am wrong, that the recourse for an event organizer is to after the fact reject or disqualify an entry based on the PHRF certificate not reflecting the boat it has been provided for. However without the full cooperation of the PHRF committee that could (stress could) be a difficult position for an OA to take. While understood that BTBOTFA is being a tad facetious, it seems to be a growing problem in our self policing sport.

 

Now to the violation alleged. Crew weight is the most absurd of all of the restrictions placed on race boats. Okay, I get that certain one design classes wish to keep a set number of crew or total crew weight. And I think it is a bit strange that some competitors would have their light air crew and heavy air crew. However, in a venue like handicap racing in western Long Island Sound, or The Chesapeake or Marblehead, GOM and a whole host of areas where PHRF (or IRC w/weight limits) is a bit nonsensical. I offer that for two strong reasons. First is that weighting up the rail in LIS, for the vast majority of races, is not an advantage. In fact because it is a light air region, it is far more often than not a liability.

The second point is this. The goal of the YRA of LIS has long been to try and promote racing. To then limit the number of seats available just runs counter to that portion of their mission.

 

As an aside, once weight limits were established, you then had a whole host of boats that claimed they never sail at max weight and thus should be awarded a credit for sailing light. YRA LIS PHRF accommodated this with a rating credit. So weight has become a game. A way to get another 3 seconds advantage. It is pure crap. The whole idea of limiting weight, essentially telling folks you didn't care how many friends you had or how much they weigh, they aren't welcome to sail. Sorry no room is just wrong headed. Of course in practice what happens is a boat gets a credit, then the crew responds to an owner saying they are gonna do this race or who is available for beer cans, and the weight restriction gets "overlooked".... not the credit mind you, just the ceiling.

 

This has to end. It is wrong on every level. To have weight limits, to have weight credits and to violate these limits are making our sport a joke. It is a gateway issue as well. Once you start to disregard one facet of the rules, it isn't terribly long before others restrictions fall by the wayside. Stacking, carrying require safety equipment, sails measuring, is all becoming fuzzy in their application and adherence.

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I was hanging around MBYC this past weekend, and over heard the powers that be speaking about this situation.

I can not believe this Loser on SJ is going through with this. It's not like the racing was even close, except for 1 race. It looks like a calendar was needed in the last race based on the 2 boats finishing times.

I understand this protest came about, according to the protest form filed because of some public forum comments from 1 of H's crew. The owner of SJ was forced by his wife to file after an internet argument.

The owner of SJ needs to grow a set of balls and tell his wife to STFU.

I have to agree with PJ and Squall, if they want to beat H they need to sail better and stop crying.

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Ultimately, we need PHRF COPS. An independent law enforcement body, in some tricked out Pursuit with 500 hp, internet access, cruising up and down the Sound , able to evaluate crew weights from afar, check on sail configuration and rig compliance, certificate filled out correctly and a powerful water cannon mounted on the bow ready to soak offenders, render their sails soaking wet kleenex, dousing the guilty with soggy shame for all to see.....

Sign me up.

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I heard rumors that the protest hearing was postponed. It's a good thing YRALIS did the Moosehead awards already. MBYC should have won them all for the way they handled this situation. From accepting the protest six days late to holding a bullshit validity hearing on the last day of the regatta.

 

And they want to know why the Fall Series is struggling to survive...

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I heard rumors that the protest hearing was postponed. It's a good thing YRALIS did the Moosehead awards already. MBYC should have won them all for the way they handled this situation. From accepting the protest six days late to holding a bullshit validity hearing on the last day of the regatta.

 

And they want to know why the Fall Series is struggling to survive...

 

Don't blame the club. They put on an awesome series, as they always do.

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MBYC RC deserves some criticism but the blame lays squarely at the feet of the PC, a former commode door of the same club as the whiners from smoking j

I heard rumors that the protest hearing was postponed. It's a good thing YRALIS did the Moosehead awards already. MBYC should have won them all for the way they handled this situation. From accepting the protest six days late to holding a bullshit validity hearing on the last day of the regatta.

 

And they want to know why the Fall Series is struggling to survive...

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I heard rumors that the protest hearing was postponed. It's a good thing YRALIS did the Moosehead awards already. MBYC should have won them all for the way they handled this situation. From accepting the protest six days late to holding a bullshit validity hearing on the last day of the regatta.

 

And they want to know why the Fall Series is struggling to survive...

Rumors? Where did you hear rumors? The YRA has nothing to do with the Moosehead awards. So without knowing the facts of the case, you are going to pre-judge how this was handled. They are required to hold a hearing when a protest is filed. If SJ thought H was sailing overweight on the last day of the regatta, why aren't they allowed to file a protest?

 

The MBYC Fall Series is struggling to survive for the same reason every other Yacht race is struggling to survive. The average Joe isn't going to sink 100% of his disposable income on a sport that he doesn't have the time for. People like you taking condescending snipes at organizations that handled the situation exactly as they should have isn't helping anything. Instead of being critical, maybe you could conjure up a thank you for the people that spend many hours running an event without anything in return.

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MBYC RC deserves some criticism but the blame lays squarely at the feet of the PC, a former commode door of the same club as the whiners from smoking j

I heard rumors that the protest hearing was postponed. It's a good thing YRALIS did the Moosehead awards already. MBYC should have won them all for the way they handled this situation. From accepting the protest six days late to holding a bullshit validity hearing on the last day of the regatta.

 

And they want to know why the Fall Series is struggling to survive...

and bingo was his nameo.....

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HS,

 

I cane heare you BP climing throuh roofe. At foure poestes NAF has alle the mackings of a trolle. You our a credditte and asseette to MBYC/sailing and we thackfulle. Dointe lette trolles crancke you up.

 

Thackes againe,

Snaggs

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HS,

 

I cane heare you BP climing throuh roofe. At foure poestes NAF has alle the mackings of a trolle. You our a credditte and asseette to MBYC/sailing and we thackfulle. Dointe lette trolles crancke you up.

 

Thackes againe,

Snaggs

Thank you, Snags.

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I heard rumors that the protest hearing was postponed. It's a good thing YRALIS did the Moosehead awards already. MBYC should have won them all for the way they handled this situation. From accepting the protest six days late to holding a bullshit validity hearing on the last day of the regatta.

 

And they want to know why the Fall Series is struggling to survive...

Rumors? Where did you hear rumors? The YRA has nothing to do with the Moosehead awards. So without knowing the facts of the case, you are going to pre-judge how this was handled. They are required to hold a hearing when a protest is filed. If SJ thought H was sailing overweight on the last day of the regatta, why aren't they allowed to file a protest?

 

The MBYC Fall Series is struggling to survive for the same reason every other Yacht race is struggling to survive. The average Joe isn't going to sink 100% of his disposable income on a sport that he doesn't have the time for. People like you taking condescending snipes at organizations that handled the situation exactly as they should have isn't helping anything. Instead of being critical, maybe you could conjure up a thank you for the people that spend many hours running an event without anything in return.

Greg,

 

The truth of the matter is, Hustler wasn't protested for the last day of racing. The protest was filed at 8:30AM. How could I be protested if the warning gun had not sounded for that days race?

The protest was filed for the previous 5 races when Smokin J realized that had no shot at winning the regatta with 1 race left and some FB comments by one of my crew members which pissed off the owner. The protest was filed 6 days after the time limit expired, and for some reason excepted by the RC. There are racing rules that describe the correct way to file a protest and procedures that need to be followed. In this case none of the procedures were followed.

I have not gotten involved on this thread with this whole thing, but thought I needed to today.

What's has happen here is total travesty.

 

John

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I heard rumors that the protest hearing was postponed. It's a good thing YRALIS did the Moosehead awards already. MBYC should have won them all for the way they handled this situation. From accepting the protest six days late to holding a bullshit validity hearing on the last day of the regatta.

 

And they want to know why the Fall Series is struggling to survive...

Rumors? Where did you hear rumors? The YRA has nothing to do with the Moosehead awards. So without knowing the facts of the case, you are going to pre-judge how this was handled. They are required to hold a hearing when a protest is filed. If SJ thought H was sailing overweight on the last day of the regatta, why aren't they allowed to file a protest?

 

The MBYC Fall Series is struggling to survive for the same reason every other Yacht race is struggling to survive. The average Joe isn't going to sink 100% of his disposable income on a sport that he doesn't have the time for. People like you taking condescending snipes at organizations that handled the situation exactly as they should have isn't helping anything. Instead of being critical, maybe you could conjure up a thank you for the people that spend many hours running an event without anything in return.

Greg,

 

The truth of the matter is, Hustler wasn't protested for the last day of racing. The protest was filed at 8:30AM. How could I be protested if the warning gun had not sounded for that days race?

The protest was filed for the previous 5 races when Smokin J realized that had no shot at winning the regatta with 1 race left and some FB comments by one of my crew members which pissed off the owner. The protest was filed 6 days after the time limit expired, and for some reason excepted by the RC. There are racing rules that describe the correct way to file a protest and procedures that need to be followed. In this case none of the procedures were followed.

I have not gotten involved on this thread with this whole thing, but thought I needed to today.

What's has happen here is total travesty.

 

John

I understand this and I sympathize with you. But there is no reason for the organizing authority to take it on the chin for this. As far as the procedure of the protest is concerned here are the relevant rules:

 

63.1 Requirement for a Hearing
A boat or competitor shall not be penalized without a protest hearing,
except as provided in rules 30.2, 30.3, 69, A5 and P2. A decision on
redress shall not be made without a hearing. The protest committee
shall hear all protests and requests for redress that have been
delivered to the race office unless it allows a protest or request to be
withdrawn.
62.2 A request shall be in writing and identify the reason for making it. If
the request is based on an incident in the racing area, it shall be
delivered to the race office within the protest time limit or two hours
after the incident, whichever is later. Other requests shall be
delivered as soon as reasonably possible after learning of the reasons
for making the request. The protest committee shall extend the time
if there is good reason to do so. No red flag is required.
Note the word "Shall". It is mandatory and they have no choice but to accept the protest. Only the Protest Committee can decide what the "good reason" is.

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Also, when you consider 62.2, which is about requests for redress, a request for redress may be filed if a sailor feels that a competitor has broken rule 2 (62.1(d)), which is:

2 FAIR SAILING
A boat and her owner shall compete in compliance with recognized
principles of sportsmanship and fair play. A boat may be penalized
under this rule only if it is clearly established that these principles
have been violated. A disqualification under this rule shall not be
excluded from the boat’s series score.

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I heard rumors that the protest hearing was postponed. It's a good thing YRALIS did the Moosehead awards already. MBYC should have won them all for the way they handled this situation. From accepting the protest six days late to holding a bullshit validity hearing on the last day of the regatta.

 

And they want to know why the Fall Series is struggling to survive...

 

Don't blame the club. They put on an awesome series, as they always do.

+1

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I heard rumors that the protest hearing was postponed. It's a good thing YRALIS did the Moosehead awards already. MBYC should have won them all for the way they handled this situation. From accepting the protest six days late to holding a bullshit validity hearing on the last day of the regatta.

 

And they want to know why the Fall Series is struggling to survive...

 

Don't blame the club. They put on an awesome series, as they always do.

+1

+ 2

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Is 6 days later ' as soon as reasonably possible after learning the reason'?

Was there new information made available?

Why so long to convene and establish validity, or not?

What is the 'good reason'?

Dosn't have to be public, but shouldn't they advise the protestee?

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Is 6 days later ' as soon as is reasonably possible'?

Was there new information made available?

Why so long to convene and establish validity, or not?

As John noted the "protest" (which I really think is a request for redress) was filed at 8:30 AM Saturday (10/25). Your second question is, of course, the crux of the whole thing. Presumably there was new information, but we don't know what that was. The hearing was after sailing that day which was the soonest opportunity the PC had to meet.

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Is 6 days later ' as soon as reasonably possible after learning the reason'?

Was there new information made available?

Why so long to convene and establish validity, or not?

What is the 'good reason'?

Dosn't have to be public, but shouldn't they advise the protestee?

We don't know the good reason either. I think they did advise the protestee. He's not sayin'.

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It is all a very sad situation. Too late to weigh Hustler's crew. No way for protestor to prove their case.

And the real question is this, why was Hustler's prostest of the rest of the divison, for the exact same alleged infringement , disallowed? This is what MBYC has to answer to rankly. To uphold one protest that was filed a week late and then disallow another protest, essentially the same protest, that was lodged the same day as it was observed and within the time limit, disallowede?

Then there is the PC Chair selected. She asked if anyone didn't want her to chair the hear, as they do, but failed to disclose she was a former commodore of the protesting boat's yacht club. All a bit of nonsense really.

 

Now don't get me wrong, if rules were broken one would hope the offender would simply RAF once it has been brought to light. However there are a whole host of issues swirling around this that just are being handled well.

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There is a bigger question here Snaggy. The protest may (and I stress may) well have merit.

We are a self policing sport. We all agree to adhere to a set of rules.

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Sixey, I udderstand, butte it hasbin saide SJ cante proove aneything at thiss time. PC dropte the balle, grante reddress if possibelle. Moove on, and consentrate on onley thing that cane be fixte; PHRF rattengs and compliense.

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Redrtess for what Snaggy? How was SJ's standings harmed by the actions of the RC? SJ's standings were harmed by SJ's actions it seems to me.

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PC cane axcept a proteste then lattere decide it notte worthe theire time? Needes have some finalle decission, if reddresse issent rite choise forgget it.

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It was most certainly NOT a request for redress. Even if it was Case 102 would apply and it would be invalid as well.

 

 

 

Is 6 days later ' as soon as reasonably possible after learning the reason'?

Was there new information made available?

Why so long to convene and establish validity, or not?

What is the 'good reason'?

Dosn't have to be public, but shouldn't they advise the protestee?

We don't know the good reason either. I think they did advise the protestee. He's not sayin'.

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Left Hook was on Hustler-his head is so big how could they have not been overweight!

Because hot air is pretty light.

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It is all a very sad situation. Too late to weigh Hustler's crew. No way for protestor to prove their case.

And the real question is this, why was Hustler's prostest of the rest of the divison, for the exact same alleged infringement , disallowed? This is what MBYC has to answer to rankly. To uphold one protest that was filed a week late and then disallow another protest, essentially the same protest, that was lodged the same day as it was observed and within the time limit, disallowede?

Then there is the PC Chair selected. She asked if anyone didn't want her to chair the hear, as they do, but failed to disclose she was a former commodore of the protesting boat's yacht club. All a bit of nonsense really.

 

Now don't get me wrong, if rules were broken one would hope the offender would simply RAF once it has been brought to light. However there are a whole host of issues swirling around this that just are being handled well.

I hear ya on the allowing one protest and not allowing the other, but until someone who was in the room is willing to say, we won't know the reasons why.

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What bothers me is why didn't they hear the protest when it was filed. The had a validity hearing. There is no such thing. Validity is determined at the beginning of a protest hearing. So they determine that it is valid but don't hear the protest. This is MBYC Fall Series, the 2nd weekend and yes the protest could possibly determine the top places in a class and they don't have the hearing???? What a bunch of BS., and they wonder why they are struggling to survive.

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This was not a case of Redress.

There was no new eveidence found out during the week. It actually says on the protest form he only protested because of some public forum comments during the week from one of my crew members about use crushing the fleet. I guess he had to find something to protest us about because comments on a public forum wouldn't fly.

One of Smokin Js crew came over to us after the first day whining about the weight, which I have a statement in writing from. My answer was protest me tomorrow or leave me alone, I had my whole crew their on Sun as well as the following Sat.

 

HS I am one of MBYC biggest fans and supporters, but I have to say their handleing of this situation has been piss poor since 8:30am on 10/25 when it should have never been accepted. I wasn't protested in the last race!

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Should have been shot in the head Johnnie, don't know all the particulars but i don't see any mention of social media trash talk in the RRS....

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The fact still remains that PHRF Weight Limits and Weight Credits need to be tossed. They are the root of the problem because they are unenforceable and limit the number of seats available.

 

MR. BTBOTFA, tear down this wall!

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The only answer to weight limits is what Dreadlocks did a number of years ago when weight limits were instituted.

Dreadlocks used to sail with sometimes as many as 12 crew just because the owner felt the more people the more fun. Did not not matter big wind or no wind. A certain J30 protested Dreadlocks at Manhasset Fall. Dread had 10 crew

The owner said fine took a DSQ than came out the next day and raced with 5. Crushed the fleet several minutes waiting around the finish line until the rest of the fleet finished. The protester from the previous day sold his boat bought a J105 and was/is very successful.

Hustler should throw down. Race with 5 crew and see if it makes a difference. My guess it will not.

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It all depends on the wind. Is it's blowing under 7 it will be fine to race with 5. If it blowing 15+ a boat with 5 crew would have at a big disadvantage to a boat with 8 crew

Hate to see all this conflict

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Start Here:

"The fact still remains that PHRF Weight Limits and Weight Credits need to be tossed. They are the root of the problem because they are unenforceable and limit the number of seats available."

 

Grow the sport!

 

finish on declaration of any mods: Jock straps, and 'beams of destiny' then add the results.

I think.

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This was not a case of Redress.

There was no new eveidence found out during the week. It actually says on the protest form he only protested because of some public forum comments during the week from one of my crew members about use crushing the fleet. I guess he had to find something to protest us about because comments on a public forum wouldn't fly.

One of Smokin Js crew came over to us after the first day whining about the weight, which I have a statement in writing from. My answer was protest me tomorrow or leave me alone, I had my whole crew their on Sun as well as the following Sat.

 

HS I am one of MBYC biggest fans and supporters, but I have to say their handleing of this situation has been piss poor since 8:30am on 10/25 when it should have never been accepted. I wasn't protested in the last race!

Just so we are on the same page, there is no such thing as rejecting a protest. The organizing authority takes the form, notes the time it was received and sends it on to the protest committee. They determine if it is valid. Those are the rules.

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Granted it's not the OA or host club that is handling or mishandling the protest. But you're known by the company you keep at the end of the day. Wouldn't you go to them and aay WTF are you guys doing!? Your screwing up our nice regatta! How do you they have time to convene a 'validity hearing' but not hear the rest of it? Why do most people 3 weeks after the event not even realize there is an outstanding protest? Does Luiz charge to much for the protest option on Yachtscoring?

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cmon man! look at the PC is a who's who of hacks, this shouldn't surprise anybody. Definitely not MBYC at fault here, they run great regattas year after year

and deserve many thanks for it, not bad PR because of a wingnut PC.

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What bothers me is why didn't they hear the protest when it was filed. The had a validity hearing. There is no such thing. Validity is determined at the beginning of a protest hearing. So they determine that it is valid but don't hear the protest. This is MBYC Fall Series, the 2nd weekend and yes the protest could possibly determine the top places in a class and they don't have the hearing???? What a bunch of BS., and they wonder why they are struggling to survive.

Another County heard from. What they had was a hearing. Every protest hearing begins with a validity review. The protest was about PHRF rules. Just spitballing here, but my guess is they were going to need to talk to the PHRF Committee about the relevant rules. And guessing a bit more, the PHRF Committee wasn't available at the time. Are you really suggesting that they should have convened a protest hearing at 8:30 on Saturday morning? I'm terribly sorry that the situation was BS to you. We will try to serve you better next time. Go drink some more.

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This was not a case of Redress.

There was no new eveidence found out during the week. It actually says on the protest form he only protested because of some public forum comments during the week from one of my crew members about use crushing the fleet. I guess he had to find something to protest us about because comments on a public forum wouldn't fly.

One of Smokin Js crew came over to us after the first day whining about the weight, which I have a statement in writing from. My answer was protest me tomorrow or leave me alone, I had my whole crew their on Sun as well as the following Sat.

 

HS I am one of MBYC biggest fans and supporters, but I have to say their handleing of this situation has been piss poor since 8:30am on 10/25 when it should have never been accepted. I wasn't protested in the last race!

Just so we are on the same page, there is no such thing as rejecting a protest. The organizing authority takes the form, notes the time it was received and sends it on to the protest committee. They determine if it is valid. Those are the rules.

So they had hearing to validate one of the protests. Did they have a "validation hearing", whatever that is, for the Hustler protest, or just say FU we're not listening?

HS -you have been defending Your club as if you know the details, but in the same breath you say you don't have details. This whole thing stinks. Part of me wants John to get DSQ'd three or four weeks after the fact. The reaction will be priceless, and MBYC will get the attention they deserve.

If you want to stop the bad PR, stop the bad PC.

Then stop the the sour grapes attitude of a boat that got its ass handed them by a boat that has been kicking their ass and everyone else's in that class for 25 years. Quit complaining, replace your sails at the same rate as Hustler, and go to fucking J world and learn to sail. Then, you just might get a chance to mix it up at the front end of the fleet. Heck, you might even get a chance to try and enforce a rule that matters. Oh wait. At the front of the fleet people understand you don't throw the flag at completely stupid opportunities.

I guess if you can't beat them on the course, beat them off.

What a joke.

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What bothers me is why didn't they hear the protest when it was filed. The had a validity hearing. There is no such thing. Validity is determined at the beginning of a protest hearing. So they determine that it is valid but don't hear the protest. This is MBYC Fall Series, the 2nd weekend and yes the protest could possibly determine the top places in a class and they don't have the hearing???? What a bunch of BS., and they wonder why they are struggling to survive.

Another County heard from. What they had was a hearing. Every protest hearing begins with a validity review. The protest was about PHRF rules. Just spitballing here, but my guess is they were going to need to talk to the PHRF Committee about the relevant rules. And guessing a bit more, the PHRF Committee wasn't available at the time. Are you really suggesting that they should have convened a protest hearing at 8:30 on Saturday morning? I'm terribly sorry that the situation was BS to you. We will try to serve you better next time. Go drink some more.

Perhaps some of the folks on the protest committee should drink a little less. Especially while conducting "validity hearings" and othe protest committee business.

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