Old Motel

Manhasset Fall Series

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House Salad - no I don't think they should have the protest in the morning.

You are right that every protest starts with a validity review. Why stop there. It was a simple one to determine - they didn't need a PHRF person there to determine if a crew is overweight or not. Put them on the scale and see where they stand.

 

They claim there was a validity hearing - there is no such thing, it is a protest hearing, let the 'judges' decide validity and hear the protest. PERIOD. What is so hard about that. Now it is weeks later and still no hearing, this is totally on MBYC as they are the organizers and lined up the Judges.

 

How about that validity - was red flag flown??????

Oh , so you were there. Why don't you enlighten us as to the facts of the case. How do you know what was said? Who claimed there was a validity hearing? They had a Protest Hearing. For some reason they could not decide the case at that time. Read the rules. They didn't need a flag.

It wasn't a protest hearing. It was a validity hearing, that is what I was told on 10/25. We are having a validity hearing to see if the protest filed 6 days late is valid. TOTAL BULLSHIT! I guess MBYC made that hearing up, because that is the first time I ever heard of a validity hearing. Besides I had my whole crew there for a weigh in, that never happened.

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And that was their mistake in all of this. They should have weighed you there and then. Too late now and that is the travesty, from both your perspective Johnnie and from that of the Smokin' J folks, I should imagine. The PC chair should have made every effort to collect the facts so she could run a proper PC hearing. She failed to do that and now everyone is left to twist in the wind.

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Why don't they need a flag????? They still have to comply with RRS 61

 

EDIT :

How do you know that I wasn't there?????

Because the boat bringing the protest doesn't necessarily know what the crew weight limit is while on the water. They get back ashore, look up Hustler's certificate and then move to file a protest after doing the rough math. If you read a bit more in the rrs you will find the language that covers this sort of thing.

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Some very basic procedural questions here--

1. Was protest made on water-flags flown, committee notified, competitor notified-answer appears to be no.

 

2. Was protest filed within two hour limit after race? Answer appears to be no.

 

3. Were some additional facts found after the two hour limited expired-Hustler cert was certainly available for all to see online to check on allowed weight on boat-that answer appears to be no as well.

 

So if the protest is about sailing above weight limits, why was protest even considered?

 

Or is the protest a violation of RRS 2 or RRS 69 based on unsportsmanlike conduct on social media creating a less than Corinthian spirit on the water or words and actions on the lawn after the race that crossed the line of civil decency. Is that what is going on here?

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Doesn't take six days to look up a cert and think guys weigh more than that-you and I know No. 6, that this kind of delay would have certainly been grounds for tossing the protest.

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Oh I don't disagree. This has been a clusterfuk from the get-go. But to see it still unresolved, when a tip of the scale and some addition was all that was needed to get it right wasn't done, just complete crap. MBYC should remove the PC Chair, 9install a new one and give them 24 hours to dismiss or resolve and be done with it already.

 

I am not so sure that RRS covers social media or that MBYC has jurisdiction over same!

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Article 2 or 69 still has to go through the protest committee. And whether "gross misconduct" etc. in this world now includes trash-talking on the internet may require a more august body to convene further down the track and make that decision, it has to start somewhere. I think what we see going on here isn't real-the protest is really about 2 or 69 and it is being veiled under a weight discussion. Smokin J had it with the aggressive behavior of Hustler and crew, whether prompted or not by questions about crew weight, and decided to take it to the authorities.

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Not what I understood but I guess possible.

Hard pressed to see either a 2 or 69 but I didn't read his website exchange.

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bottom line -- no reason, from what we can see, for the weight protest to be heard--plenty of reasons to have tossed it---- so what is driving the bus? Something really smells here....

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House Salad - no I don't think they should have the protest in the morning.

You are right that every protest starts with a validity review. Why stop there. It was a simple one to determine - they didn't need a PHRF person there to determine if a crew is overweight or not. Put them on the scale and see where they stand.

 

They claim there was a validity hearing - there is no such thing, it is a protest hearing, let the 'judges' decide validity and hear the protest. PERIOD. What is so hard about that. Now it is weeks later and still no hearing, this is totally on MBYC as they are the organizers and lined up the Judges.

 

How about that validity - was red flag flown??????

 

Oh , so you were there. Why don't you enlighten us as to the facts of the case. How do you know what was said? Who claimed there was a validity hearing? They had a Protest Hearing. For some reason they could not decide the case at that time. Read the rules. They didn't need a flag.

It wasn't a protest hearing. It was a validity hearing, that is what I was told on 10/25. We are having a validity hearing to see if the protest filed 6 days late is valid. TOTAL BULLSHIT! I guess MBYC made that hearing up, because that is the first time I ever heard of a validity hearing. Besides I had my whole crew there for a weigh in, that never happened.
MBYC made that hearing up? Weren't you there? Ok, so what have they told you about the situation? Are they having another hearing? Did they give you a copy of the protest? What does it say? Is the PHRF committee involved?

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Why don't they need a flag????? They still have to comply with RRS 61

 

EDIT :

How do you know that I wasn't there?????

I don't. And I couldn't give a fuck if you were.

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... Oh wait. At the front of the fleet people understand you don't throw the flag at completely stupid opportunities.

I guess if you can't beat them on the course, beat them off.

What a joke.

Oh wait, I seem to recall a boat who is traditionally in the front of the fleet getting their buts kicked and then calls out an entire class of boat owners as cheaters because the PHRF Committee didn't go about it the correct way ...

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bottom line -- no reason, from what we can see, for the weight protest to be heard--plenty of reasons to have tossed it---- so what is driving the bus? Something really smells here....

Why do you say that there is no reason to hear the protest? Boat sailing with 7 right? Limited to 1420 or so right? So an average weight of 203.... but 3-4 clearly north of 230 or more. So 4 guys at 230 equals 920. So 500 left under the cap for the remaining 3 you get 167 each. Hmmmm, looks like the bowman might come in under that. So it seems there might well be good reason for the protest under current PHRF weight limits.

You can argue the technical aspects of this and I fully agree they should have had the crew drop down to their skivvies and hop on the scale when they had their chance. Put at least the basis for the protest to bed.

So the club could demonstrate compelling reason to extend the time limit, to allow the protesting boat time to gather necessary info from the PHRF Certificate and committee. So the question becomes why the PC Chair tabled the protest after determining it was valid. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that the C felt that this being a certificate issue, that the PHRF Class Measurer would be the one charged with conducting the weigh in. Fatal flaw right there if that is the case.

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bottom line -- no reason, from what we can see, for the weight protest to be heard--plenty of reasons to have tossed it---- so what is driving the bus? Something really smells here....

Will?

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bottom line -- no reason, from what we can see, for the weight protest to be heard--plenty of reasons to have tossed it---- so what is driving the bus? Something really smells here....

Will?

 

 

Don't sit downwind of those Chuck Taylor's.

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So where in the rules does it say that a measurement protest doesn't have to comply with RRS 61???

Why don't you read the thread. It's all there, and only about 20 posts before you decided to chime in with your omniscient slant on things.

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That's funny because I can find in the US Sailing Judges manual that it still need to comply with RRS 61, which requires a flag. check out chapter 8 page 9. Guess it's their slant also.

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So why wasn't Hustler's protest allowed? This doesn't make any sense.

You are still alive, I thought someone killed you?

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Just for the record. The social exchange on FB really wasn't that bad. Very civil actually. The comments being written here in favor of Hustler and against Smokin J are MUCH worse IMHO.

Its ironic that the FB exchange is what prompted SJ to go through with the protest, yet much worse is being said here.

 

This WILL get tossed eventually. If for some reason it doesn't I think an appeal is in order as this is a class A clusterfuck. This bullshit can't be handled like this.

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bottom line -- no reason, from what we can see, for the weight protest to be heard--plenty of reasons to have tossed it---- so what is driving the bus? Something really smells here....

It's pretty clear, since the racing wasn't even close even in the lighter air that this had nothing to do with the weight, rather the FB comments as stated in his protest.

WAWAWAWA we can't beat Hustler, so let's try to chuck them from the regatta. :huh:

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bottom line -- no reason, from what we can see, for the weight protest to be heard--plenty of reasons to have tossed it---- so what is driving the bus? Something really smells here....

Why do you say that there is no reason to hear the protest? Boat sailing with 7 right? Limited to 1420 or so right? So an average weight of 203.... but 3-4 clearly north of 230 or more. So 4 guys at 230 equals 920. So 500 left under the cap for the remaining 3 you get 167 each. Hmmmm, looks like the bowman might come in under that. So it seems there might well be good reason for the protest under current PHRF weight limits.

You can argue the technical aspects of this and I fully agree they should have had the crew drop down to their skivvies and hop on the scale when they had their chance. Put at least the basis for the protest to bed.

So the club could demonstrate compelling reason to extend the time limit, to allow the protesting boat time to gather necessary info from the PHRF Certificate and committee. So the question becomes why the PC Chair tabled the protest after determining it was valid. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that the C felt that this being a certificate issue, that the PHRF Class Measurer would be the one charged with conducting the weigh in. Fatal flaw right there if that is the case.

Flag not flown, RC not contacted, competitor not hailed on water, time limit expired. All of the issues you bring up about weight on cert etc. are readily available. Didn't take a week to look up the cert. What, other than somebody getting tweaked by internet babble, occurred during the week that made the protest more valid? if it took Smokin J a week to figure out how to fill out the form, so what? Clock ran out. I just don't get it. John, have you actually received a written copy of the protest?

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You sang a different tune when the shoe was on the other foot.

 

Me? I look at these things based on merit.

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Didn't take a week to look up the cert.

To be fair it might have ... I tried to look up a different cert that weekend on YRALIS.org and somebody pulled the plug on the existing website before updating the current site. Apparently someone thought the season was over.

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You sang a different tune when the shoe was on the other foot.

 

Me? I look at these things based on merit.

that situation was far different than this, and you know that, singing right there with me--if anything, prodding the issue to its ugly resolution and just about pushing me right onto a golf cart--yeah, Espo's crew was probly overweight, but, so was pbly 75 percent of the fleet. Why he filed his protest-so why was his, that was filed per protest protocol, tossed but the one filed six days late heard? But that doesn't seem to be the crux of the biscuit here--bill's sock puppet may have a point though on access-that was the week that the YRALIS was killing the old site and launching new so cert viewing was definitely tough. If that is what happened, then why doesn't someone say that?

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Didn't take a week to look up the cert.

To be fair it might have ... I tried to look up a different cert that weekend on YRALIS.org and somebody pulled the plug on the existing website before updating the current site. Apparently someone thought the season was over.

We tried to pick a weekend when we thought, basically, all cert issues that effected remaining racing had been finalized. We are working through repopulating the new site and making sure all the nuts and bolts work for 2015 membership and PHRF cert renewal which begins on December 1st.. It has been a herculean task building the new site and making it all seamless and kudos to all involved for making it happen. Pulling your cert next season is going to be light years easier than before.

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You sang a different tune when the shoe was on the other foot.

 

Me? I look at these things based on merit.

that situation was far different than this, and you know that, singing right there with me--if anything, prodding the issue to its ugly resolution and just about pushing me right onto a golf cart--yeah, Espo's crew was probly overweight, but, so was pbly 75 percent of the fleet. Why he filed his protest-so why was his, that was filed per protest protocol, tossed but the one filed six days late heard? But that doesn't seem to be the crux of the biscuit here--bill's sock puppet may have a point though on access-that was the week that the YRALIS was killing the old site and launching new so cert viewing was definitely tough. If that is what happened, then why doesn't someone say that?

 

 

My involvement then, as now, has a bit more to do with what the RRS has to say about the actual infringements and less about the technical of the filings.

My take, and it is nothing more than that, is Espo's protest was disallowed because they felt he was trying to make a mockery of already trying circumstances. Just a guess.

Back to the subject at hand. As a self policing sport, it would be nice to see competitors doing a mea culpa when infractions come to light rather than resorting to a bunch of sea lawyering and evading the rules through technicalities.

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NOR: PHRF Certificates 'must be received' with the entry. Has nothing to do with YRALIS website.

If I was questioning a cert I would check what the O.A. has accepted on file.

 

Although further down the NOR says each boat must have a cert, or one on file with YRALIS.

So maybe they don't need to be supplied with the entry? Or they do, but this concerns having one on board?

 

I would estimate 70 pct of OA 's either never enforce requiring physical certs or never cross check the

rating given on YRA LIS website

 

That's not the issue here anyway. If a cert is needed the protestor or PC gets one from the owner. Simple.

 

Can't rely on the YRALIS website.

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I hear ya no. 6 and I agree, and I am just prodding the issue myself-throwing it out there to see the response-mea culpas hard thing to buy these days.....

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bottom line -- no reason, from what we can see, for the weight protest to be heard--plenty of reasons to have tossed it---- so what is driving the bus? Something really smells here....

Why do you say that there is no reason to hear the protest? Boat sailing with 7 right? Limited to 1420 or so right? So an average weight of 203.... but 3-4 clearly north of 230 or more. So 4 guys at 230 equals 920. So 500 left under the cap for the remaining 3 you get 167 each. Hmmmm, looks like the bowman might come in under that. So it seems there might well be good reason for the protest under current PHRF weight limits.

You can argue the technical aspects of this and I fully agree they should have had the crew drop down to their skivvies and hop on the scale when they had their chance. Put at least the basis for the protest to bed.

So the club could demonstrate compelling reason to extend the time limit, to allow the protesting boat time to gather necessary info from the PHRF Certificate and committee. So the question becomes why the PC Chair tabled the protest after determining it was valid. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that the C felt that this being a certificate issue, that the PHRF Class Measurer would be the one charged with conducting the weigh in. Fatal flaw right there if that is the case.

Flag not flown, RC not contacted, competitor not hailed on water, time limit expired. All of the issues you bring up about weight on cert etc. are readily available. Didn't take a week to look up the cert. What, other than somebody getting tweaked by internet babble, occurred during the week that made the protest more valid? if it took Smokin J a week to figure out how to fill out the form, so what? Clock ran out. I just don't get it. John, have you actually received a written copy of the protest?

Yes, I have.

They were whining about weight on the first day at the club after racing, and I said if you have a problem with it protest me tomorrow. They didn't and I had my whole crew at MBYC both day 2 and the day of the so called 'validity hearing. The crew member from their boat who came over and talked to me, even asked if I cared if they sailed with 8 on Sun, my answer was I don't care if you sail with 9, IT WON"T MATTER!

The funniest thing is 1st race was Lt#1 with 2 crew to leeward and below we were 1st they were 4th, 2nd race Lt#1 first leg crew to leeward and below, 2nd upwind leg H#1 me sitting to leeward on the jib trim we are 1st they were 2nd, Race #3, H#1 all hiked 3/4 up first leg they were crossing on stb by 2 BL, and decided to tack to leeward and ahead. Except they had a horendous tack and we were in a lefty. By the time they were trimmed up we were over them. All they had to do was cross us and tack and they had us. Once you give us the lead you don't get it back! ;)

Second upwind leg we go with #3 they who say they were so much lighter carry the H#1, go figure. We are 1st they are 3rd.

Maybe we just had a better sail combo that leg. B)

We won't talk about Sun just yet, as I was told by 2 of their crew members they couldn't handle the boat in that breeze.

So you know the old story, it's been going on for 23 years, they must be over weight or the boat must be illegal or the keel is deeper or they don't have all their safty equipment

My they should look in the mirror. :blink:

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bottom line -- no reason, from what we can see, for the weight protest to be heard--plenty of reasons to have tossed it---- so what is driving the bus? Something really smells here....

Why do you say that there is no reason to hear the protest? Boat sailing with 7 right? Limited to 1420 or so right? So an average weight of 203.... but 3-4 clearly north of 230 or more. So 4 guys at 230 equals 920. So 500 left under the cap for the remaining 3 you get 167 each. Hmmmm, looks like the bowman might come in under that. So it seems there might well be good reason for the protest under current PHRF weight limits.

You can argue the technical aspects of this and I fully agree they should have had the crew drop down to their skivvies and hop on the scale when they had their chance. Put at least the basis for the protest to bed.

So the club could demonstrate compelling reason to extend the time limit, to allow the protesting boat time to gather necessary info from the PHRF Certificate and committee. So the question becomes why the PC Chair tabled the protest after determining it was valid. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that the C felt that this being a certificate issue, that the PHRF Class Measurer would be the one charged with conducting the weigh in. Fatal flaw right there if that is the case.

Flag not flown, RC not contacted, competitor not hailed on water, time limit expired. All of the issues you bring up about weight on cert etc. are readily available. Didn't take a week to look up the cert. What, other than somebody getting tweaked by internet babble, occurred during the week that made the protest more valid? if it took Smokin J a week to figure out how to fill out the form, so what? Clock ran out. I just don't get it. John, have you actually received a written copy of the protest?

Yes, I have.

They were whining about weight on the first day at the club after racing, and I said if you have a problem with it protest me tomorrow. They didn't and I had my whole crew at MBYC both day 2 and the day of the so called 'validity hearing. The crew member from their boat who came over and talked to me, even asked if I cared if they sailed with 8 on Sun, my answer was I don't care if you sail with 9, IT WON"T MATTER!

The funniest thing is 1st race was Lt#1 with 2 crew to leeward and below we were 1st they were 4th, 2nd race Lt#1 first leg crew to leeward and below, 2nd upwind leg H#1 me sitting to leeward on the jib trim we are 1st they were 2nd, Race #3, H#1 all hiked 3/4 up first leg they were crossing on stb by 2 BL, and decided to tack to leeward and ahead. Except they had a horendous tack and we were in a lefty. By the time they were trimmed up we were over them. All they had to do was cross us and tack and they had us. Once you give us the lead you don't get it back! ;)

Second upwind leg we go with #3 they who say they were so much lighter carry the H#1, go figure. We are 1st they are 3rd.

Maybe we just had a better sail combo that leg. B)

We won't talk about Sun just yet, as I was told by 2 of their crew members they couldn't handle the boat in that breeze.

So you know the old story, it's been going on for 23 years, they must be over weight or the boat must be illegal or the keel is deeper or they don't have all their safty equipment

My they should look in the mirror. :blink:

Johnny - acknowledging your description above - one (I guess actually two) question: What crew weight were you sailing with and what is max on your certificate?

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1260

 

 

 

 

bottom line -- no reason, from what we can see, for the weight protest to be heard--plenty of reasons to have tossed it---- so what is driving the bus? Something really smells here....

Why do you say that there is no reason to hear the protest? Boat sailing with 7 right? Limited to 1420 or so right? So an average weight of 203.... but 3-4 clearly north of 230 or more. So 4 guys at 230 equals 920. So 500 left under the cap for the remaining 3 you get 167 each. Hmmmm, looks like the bowman might come in under that. So it seems there might well be good reason for the protest under current PHRF weight limits.
You can argue the technical aspects of this and I fully agree they should have had the crew drop down to their skivvies and hop on the scale when they had their chance. Put at least the basis for the protest to bed.
So the club could demonstrate compelling reason to extend the time limit, to allow the protesting boat time to gather necessary info from the PHRF Certificate and committee. So the question becomes why the PC Chair tabled the protest after determining it was valid. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that the C felt that this being a certificate issue, that the PHRF Class Measurer would be the one charged with conducting the weigh in. Fatal flaw right there if that is the case.

Flag not flown, RC not contacted, competitor not hailed on water, time limit expired. All of the issues you bring up about weight on cert etc. are readily available. Didn't take a week to look up the cert. What, other than somebody getting tweaked by internet babble, occurred during the week that made the protest more valid? if it took Smokin J a week to figure out how to fill out the form, so what? Clock ran out. I just don't get it. John, have you actually received a written copy of the protest?

Yes, I have.

They were whining about weight on the first day at the club after racing, and I said if you have a problem with it protest me tomorrow. They didn't and I had my whole crew at MBYC both day 2 and the day of the so called 'validity hearing. The crew member from their boat who came over and talked to me, even asked if I cared if they sailed with 8 on Sun, my answer was I don't care if you sail with 9, IT WON"T MATTER!

The funniest thing is 1st race was Lt#1 with 2 crew to leeward and below we were 1st they were 4th, 2nd race Lt#1 first leg crew to leeward and below, 2nd upwind leg H#1 me sitting to leeward on the jib trim we are 1st they were 2nd, Race #3, H#1 all hiked 3/4 up first leg they were crossing on stb by 2 BL, and decided to tack to leeward and ahead. Except they had a horendous tack and we were in a lefty. By the time they were trimmed up we were over them. All they had to do was cross us and tack and they had us. Once you give us the lead you don't get it back! ;)

Second upwind leg we go with #3 they who say they were so much lighter carry the H#1, go figure. We are 1st they are 3rd.

Maybe we just had a better sail combo that leg. B)

We won't talk about Sun just yet, as I was told by 2 of their crew members they couldn't handle the boat in that breeze.

So you know the old story, it's been going on for 23 years, they must be over weight or the boat must be illegal or the keel is deeper or they don't have all their safty equipment

My they should look in the mirror. :blink:

Johnny - acknowledging your description above - one (I guess actually two) question: What crew weight were you sailing with and what is max on your certificate?

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1260

 

 

 

Flag not flown, RC not contacted, competitor not hailed on water, time limit expired. All of the issues you bring up about weight on cert etc. are readily available. Didn't take a week to look up the cert. What, other than somebody getting tweaked by internet babble, occurred during the week that made the protest more valid? if it took Smokin J a week to figure out how to fill out the form, so what? Clock ran out. I just don't get it. John, have you actually received a written copy of the protest?

Yes, I have.

They were whining about weight on the first day at the club after racing, and I said if you have a problem with it protest me tomorrow. They didn't and I had my whole crew at MBYC both day 2 and the day of the so called 'validity hearing. The crew member from their boat who came over and talked to me, even asked if I cared if they sailed with 8 on Sun, my answer was I don't care if you sail with 9, IT WON"T MATTER!

The funniest thing is 1st race was Lt#1 with 2 crew to leeward and below we were 1st they were 4th, 2nd race Lt#1 first leg crew to leeward and below, 2nd upwind leg H#1 me sitting to leeward on the jib trim we are 1st they were 2nd, Race #3, H#1 all hiked 3/4 up first leg they were crossing on stb by 2 BL, and decided to tack to leeward and ahead. Except they had a horendous tack and we were in a lefty. By the time they were trimmed up we were over them. All they had to do was cross us and tack and they had us. Once you give us the lead you don't get it back! ;)

Second upwind leg we go with #3 they who say they were so much lighter carry the H#1, go figure. We are 1st they are 3rd.

Maybe we just had a better sail combo that leg. B)

We won't talk about Sun just yet, as I was told by 2 of their crew members they couldn't handle the boat in that breeze.

So you know the old story, it's been going on for 23 years, they must be over weight or the boat must be illegal or the keel is deeper or they don't have all their safty equipment

My they should look in the mirror. :blink:

Johnny - acknowledging your description above - one (I guess actually two) question: What crew weight were you sailing with and what is max on your certificate?

So if your crew weight didn't exceed the allowed on the cert - what is the big hubbah about?

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This sort of shit is why boats are no longer signing up for regattas run by MBYC. Maybe Cedar Point can run a fall series to replace MBYC? It would be a good pit stop for a lot of boats on the way to Westbrook for the winter.

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This sort of shit is why boats are no longer signing up for regattas run by MBYC. Maybe Cedar Point can run a fall series to replace MBYC? It would be a good pit stop for a lot of boats on the way to Westbrook for the winter.

Where do these people get this holier than thou shit from? You go get Cedar Point to run a big boat fall series. Go ahead and try. Do you have any idea how many hours Sue Miller has put for you guys? Jesus Fucking Christ.

 

I'm sorry this isn't up to snuff for you. Maybe you can run the event for everyone else to sail in. Good luck finding judges. You better look for them now, because they're all getting booked up for 2015 already. I've had it. I'm going sailing. You just lost your weather mark boat for any upcoming Fall Series. Have fun playing with yourself.

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Folks need to take a step back and calm down.

Yes I think there have been some mistakes made here. I do not think it is necessarily MBYC's doing. I think the PC Chair and the jury she impaneled may have got things wrong. However, I will say they probably did so because they think at face value there is an issue here that needs to be dealt with.

What we have here is a Mexican standoff. On one side you have a boat that firmly believes that another has broken a rule. The other boat couldn't give a damn about that particular rule and sure as hell isn't willing to give the other the satisfaction of RAFing. This crap isn't serving our sport particularly well and when you put it into perspective, over a fukin' pickle dish.

 

That said let's not start blowing up the few quality sailing events we have on Long Island Sound.

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Folks need to take a step back and calm down......

...............

 

That said let's not start blowing up the few quality sailing events we have on Long Island Sound.

Coud notte adgree moire......... we halve so fiew.

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Folks need to take a step back and calm down.

Yes I think there have been some mistakes made here. I do not think it is necessarily MBYC's doing. I think the PC Chair and the jury she impaneled may have got things wrong. However, I will say they probably did so because they think at face value there is an issue here that needs to be dealt with.

What we have here is a Mexican standoff. On one side you have a boat that firmly believes that another has broken a rule. The other boat couldn't give a damn about that particular rule and sure as hell isn't willing to give the other the satisfaction of RAFing. This crap isn't serving our sport particularly well and when you put it into perspective, over a fukin' pickle dish.

 

That said let's not start blowing up the few quality sailing events we have on Long Island Sound.

Your area sounds like the last bunch of drunks at a college frat party all pissed off because they were too drunk to get a hot chick to fuck so now they are throwing furniture at each other. Stay classy Long Island sound.

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Folks need to take a step back and calm down.

Yes I think there have been some mistakes made here. I do not think it is necessarily MBYC's doing. I think the PC Chair and the jury she impaneled may have got things wrong. However, I will say they probably did so because they think at face value there is an issue here that needs to be dealt with.

What we have here is a Mexican standoff. On one side you have a boat that firmly believes that another has broken a rule. The other boat couldn't give a damn about that particular rule and sure as hell isn't willing to give the other the satisfaction of RAFing. This crap isn't serving our sport particularly well and when you put it into perspective, over a fukin' pickle dish.

 

That said let's not start blowing up the few quality sailing events we have on Long Island Sound.

Your area sounds like the last bunch of drunks at a college frat party all pissed off because they were too drunk to get a hot chick to fuck so now they are throwing furniture at each other. Stay classy Long Island sound.

don;t be such a tool.

YRALIS has no more problems than any other area/region......I'll wager a lot less than most.

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I think a petition to each YRA PHRF comm. member to look into weight credits is about due.....

 

Tom Castiglione tomc@sales.northsails.com Richard Coar chaika@pipeline.com Richard Gold turningpt@aol.com June Kendrick jkendric@optonline.net Jeffrey Ohstrom jgohstrom@gmail.com Charles Powers charles.powers.yra@gmail.com Richard Royce rroyce@webb.edu George Samalot George@samalotmarine.com

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Yeah, look into it....why so they can make it worse? Eliminate it! In PHRF it serves no useful purpose.

 

I think a petition to each YRA PHRF comm. member to look into weight credits is about due.....

 

Tom Castiglione tomc@sales.northsails.com Richard Coar chaika@pipeline.com Richard Gold turningpt@aol.com June Kendrick jkendric@optonline.net Jeffrey Ohstrom jgohstrom@gmail.com Charles Powers charles.powers.yra@gmail.com Richard Royce rroyce@webb.edu George Samalot George@samalotmarine.com

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Yeah, look into it....why so they can make it worse? Eliminate it! In PHRF it serves no useful purpose.

 

I think a petition to each YRA PHRF comm. member to look into weight credits is about due.....

 

Tom Castiglione tomc@sales.northsails.com Richard Coar chaika@pipeline.com Richard Gold turningpt@aol.com June Kendrick jkendric@optonline.net Jeffrey Ohstrom jgohstrom@gmail.com Charles Powers charles.powers.yra@gmail.com Richard Royce rroyce@webb.edu George Samalot George@samalotmarine.com

I agree 100%. get rid of weight credits/limits.

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Do any of these people even race?

 

 

I think a petition to each YRA PHRF comm. member to look into weight credits is about due.....

 

Tom Castiglione tomc@sales.northsails.com Richard Coar chaika@pipeline.com Richard Gold turningpt@aol.com June Kendrick jkendric@optonline.net Jeffrey Ohstrom jgohstrom@gmail.com Charles Powers charles.powers.yra@gmail.com Richard Royce rroyce@webb.edu George Samalot George@samalotmarine.com

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This sort of shit is why boats are no longer signing up for regattas run by MBYC. Maybe Cedar Point can run a fall series to replace MBYC? It would be a good pit stop for a lot of boats on the way to Westbrook for the winter.

Where do these people get this holier than thou shit from? You go get Cedar Point to run a big boat fall series. Go ahead and try. Do you have any idea how many hours Sue Miller has put for you guys? Jesus Fucking Christ.

 

I'm sorry this isn't up to snuff for you. Maybe you can run the event for everyone else to sail in. Good luck finding judges. You better look for them now, because they're all getting booked up for 2015 already. I've had it. I'm going sailing. You just lost your weather mark boat for any upcoming Fall Series. Have fun playing with yourself.

 

As I stated a few pages back, I haven't done this event in a few years with good reason. I have no doubt that the volunteers at MBYC put a lot of effort into running this event, but in the end the event gets hurt by mishandled protests and inexperience in race management. I think the entire MBYC committee would benefit from some of the US Sailing training courses.

 

I do think that a Fall event at Cedar Point would be more interesting to a lot of people, I'm not a member of that club so I'm not in a position to organize anything, just stating my biased opinion. I've never had a good experience racing at MBYC, ever since I was a junior sailor in WLIS I've felt they run mediocre races and the membership generally doesn't want the competitors on the club grounds during the event. Again, this is my opinion, but I find it to be an extremely unfriendly place and would rather spend my time raking leaves those two weekends.

 

I don't think my critical comments are any reason for you to drop your mark boat duties, I'm sure there are many people who are grateful for your work. Take a deep breath, step away from the bullshit for a second, and realize that there may be a hint of validity in my comments. No one wants to deal with this sort of shit fight just to win a silver plated tray.

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This all seems pretty simple. There is a weight limit now of 1260 for a 29' boat in YRALIS. if 4 crew are 230+ like this person said that is 920 lbs. The limit is 1260 lbs. That leaves 340 lbs for the final 3 crew members. I really doubt there 3 remaining crew weigh 113 lbs each. It seems the boat in question is over the allowable weight. It looks like they broke the rule. I do not know the penalty for this offense. We can argue whether the rule should be changed but it was in place for this regatta and needs to be followed. Weight on the rail is a benefit in anything over 8 knots. I do not know the details of the protest but it is important in sailing to do the right thing. It will be interesting to see how this works itself out.

 

bottom line -- no reason, from what we can see, for the weight protest to be heard--plenty of reasons to have tossed it---- so what is driving the bus? Something really smells here....

Why do you say that there is no reason to hear the protest? Boat sailing with 7 right? Limited to 1420 or so right? So an average weight of 203.... but 3-4 clearly north of 230 or more. So 4 guys at 230 equals 920. So 500 left under the cap for the remaining 3 you get 167 each. Hmmmm, looks like the bowman might come in under that. So it seems there might well be good reason for the protest under current PHRF weight limits.
You can argue the technical aspects of this and I fully agree they should have had the crew drop down to their skivvies and hop on the scale when they had their chance. Put at least the basis for the protest to bed.
So the club could demonstrate compelling reason to extend the time limit, to allow the protesting boat time to gather necessary info from the PHRF Certificate and committee. So the question becomes why the PC Chair tabled the protest after determining it was valid. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that the C felt that this being a certificate issue, that the PHRF Class Measurer would be the one charged with conducting the weigh in. Fatal flaw right there if that is the case.

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What this here thread needs is some music. The kinds of song that captures the spirit of the occasion. One that gets right to the heart of things. An orchestrated song with a lively tempo and catchy harmony. One about injustice and rebellion, and persecution and redemption. And I think I know just that song. Feel free to sing along if you know the words or just makes some up if you don't......

And friends, somewhere in Manhasset or Raritan Bay enshrined in some little folder, is a
Study in black and white of my rating certificate and 8 x 10 glossy photos. And the only reason I'm
Singing you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similar
Situation, or you may be in a similar situation, and if your in a
Situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's walk into
The bar wherever you are ,just walk in say "Commodore, You can get
Anything you want, at Esposito's Restaurant.". And walk out. You know, if
One person, just one person does it they may think he's really a dick and
They won't like him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony,
They may think they're both Diegos and they won't like either of them.
And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in
Singin a bar of Esposito's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's a
goddamn Yachting Organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said
Fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Esposito's Restaurant and
Walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

And that's what it is , the Esposito's Restaurant Anti-Weight Limit Movement, and
All you got to do to join is sing it the next time it come's around on the
Guitar.

With feeling. So we'll wait for it to come around on the guitar, here and
Sing it when it does. Here it comes.



Apologies to Arlo Guthrie

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Going along those lines, Espo is just as guilty for dragging this out when he clearly did violate the rules. Be a man an admit when you got caught cheating. You sailed overweight and someone called you on it. Get off the pasta and into some running shoes.

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What this here thread needs is some music. The kinds of song that captures the spirit of the occasion. One that gets right to the heart of things. An orchestrated song with a lively tempo and catchy harmony. One about injustice and rebellion, and persecution and redemption. And I think I know just that song. Feel free to sing along if you know the words or just makes some up if you don't......

 

And friends, somewhere in Manhasset enshrined in some little folder, is a

Study in black and white of my fingerprints. And the only reason I'm

Singing you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similar

Situation, or you may be in a similar situation, and if your in a

Situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's walk into

The bar wherever you are ,just walk in say "Commodore, You can get

Anything you want, at Sue Miller's restaurant.". And walk out. You know, if

One person, just one person does it they may think he's really a dick and

They won't like him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony,

They may think they're both faggots and they won't like either of them.

And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in

Singin a bar of Sue Miller's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's a

goddamn Yachting Organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said

Fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Sue Miller's Restaurant and

Walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

 

And that's what it is , the Sue Miller's Restaurant Anti-Massacre Movement, and

All you got to do to join is sing it the next time it come's around on the

Guitar.

 

With feeling. So we'll wait for it to come around on the guitar, here and

Sing it when it does. Here it comes.

 

 

Apologies to Arlo Guthrie

Fabulous Sixey, just great. Thanks for putting this situation in perspective several times now.

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Hey asshole! Read the thread, the crew was at the club the first weekend both days and no protest was filed it could have been settled then. Six days later, after realizing that he and his crew can't sail, Tom Sinatra asked for a mulligan to protest for the previous weekend of racing. The blame for this lies with Tom Sinatra and the MBYC Protest Committee.

Going along those lines, Espo is just as guilty for dragging this out when he clearly did violate the rules. Be a man an admit when you got caught cheating. You sailed overweight and someone called you on it. Get off the pasta and into some running shoes.

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This sort of shit is why boats are no longer signing up for regattas run by MBYC. Maybe Cedar Point can run a fall series to replace MBYC? It would be a good pit stop for a lot of boats on the way to Westbrook for the winter.

Where do these people get this holier than thou shit from? You go get Cedar Point to run a big boat fall series. Go ahead and try. Do you have any idea how many hours Sue Miller has put for you guys? Jesus Fucking Christ.

 

I'm sorry this isn't up to snuff for you. Maybe you can run the event for everyone else to sail in. Good luck finding judges. You better look for them now, because they're all getting booked up for 2015 already. I've had it. I'm going sailing. You just lost your weather mark boat for any upcoming Fall Series. Have fun playing with yourself.

 

As I stated a few pages back, I haven't done this event in a few years with good reason. I have no doubt that the volunteers at MBYC put a lot of effort into running this event, but in the end the event gets hurt by mishandled protests and inexperience in race management. I think the entire MBYC committee would benefit from some of the US Sailing training courses.

 

I do think that a Fall event at Cedar Point would be more interesting to a lot of people, I'm not a member of that club so I'm not in a position to organize anything, just stating my biased opinion. I've never had a good experience racing at MBYC, ever since I was a junior sailor in WLIS I've felt they run mediocre races and the membership generally doesn't want the competitors on the club grounds during the event. Again, this is my opinion, but I find it to be an extremely unfriendly place and would rather spend my time raking leaves those two weekends.

 

I don't think my critical comments are any reason for you to drop your mark boat duties, I'm sure there are many people who are grateful for your work. Take a deep breath, step away from the bullshit for a second, and realize that there may be a hint of validity in my comments. No one wants to deal with this sort of shit fight just to win a silver plated tray.

How many years ago did you do this event? When was the last time you saw the performance of the MBYC Regatta Committee? What other events are you making the performance comparison to? No problem, go on slagging race officers that may not even be alive anymore. Why don't you take a step back and admit that you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. You pissed in the wrong punchbowl, don't ruin it for everyone who does know what they are doing.

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It's really hard to decide who is being the dishonest asshole around here now!

 

I wonder if anyone else had fun at this regatta?

 

This thread needs some more tits!

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Hey asshole! Read the thread, the crew was at the club the first weekend both days and no protest was filed it could have been settled then. Six days later, after realizing that he and his crew can't sail, Tom Sinatra asked for a mulligan to protest for the previous weekend of racing. The blame for this lies with Tom Sinatra and the MBYC Protest Committee.

Going along those lines, Espo is just as guilty for dragging this out when he clearly did violate the rules. Be a man an admit when you got caught cheating. You sailed overweight and someone called you on it. Get off the pasta and into some running shoes.

 

 

Will, seriously, who is the asshole, the one who cheats or the one who calls them for it?

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This sort of shit is why boats are no longer signing up for regattas run by MBYC. Maybe Cedar Point can run a fall series to replace MBYC? It would be a good pit stop for a lot of boats on the way to Westbrook for the winter.

Where do these people get this holier than thou shit from? You go get Cedar Point to run a big boat fall series. Go ahead and try. Do you have any idea how many hours Sue Miller has put for you guys? Jesus Fucking Christ.

 

I'm sorry this isn't up to snuff for you. Maybe you can run the event for everyone else to sail in. Good luck finding judges. You better look for them now, because they're all getting booked up for 2015 already. I've had it. I'm going sailing. You just lost your weather mark boat for any upcoming Fall Series. Have fun playing with yourself.

 

As I stated a few pages back, I haven't done this event in a few years with good reason. I have no doubt that the volunteers at MBYC put a lot of effort into running this event, but in the end the event gets hurt by mishandled protests and inexperience in race management. I think the entire MBYC committee would benefit from some of the US Sailing training courses.

 

I do think that a Fall event at Cedar Point would be more interesting to a lot of people, I'm not a member of that club so I'm not in a position to organize anything, just stating my biased opinion. I've never had a good experience racing at MBYC, ever since I was a junior sailor in WLIS I've felt they run mediocre races and the membership generally doesn't want the competitors on the club grounds during the event. Again, this is my opinion, but I find it to be an extremely unfriendly place and would rather spend my time raking leaves those two weekends.\

 

I've found the exact opposite to be true of MBYC, especially during Fall Series. They've got a ton of food, and good food at that (I"m looking at you AYC BBQ chicken), for before and after racing. Sure the RC doing the thing with a different mark can be a bit weird but they've only got one circle so don't want finishes spread over an hour and a half. Frankly it beats the hell out of most regattas where it's clear the sailors are to stay on the lawn.

 

Hell, I'm saying all of this after having my own terrible protest story from this year's regatta. I just think it's unfair to malign the club over bad PC work.

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This sort of shit is why boats are no longer signing up for regattas run by MBYC. Maybe Cedar Point can run a fall series to replace MBYC? It would be a good pit stop for a lot of boats on the way to Westbrook for the winter.

Where do these people get this holier than thou shit from? You go get Cedar Point to run a big boat fall series. Go ahead and try. Do you have any idea how many hours Sue Miller has put for you guys? Jesus Fucking Christ.

 

I'm sorry this isn't up to snuff for you. Maybe you can run the event for everyone else to sail in. Good luck finding judges. You better look for them now, because they're all getting booked up for 2015 already. I've had it. I'm going sailing. You just lost your weather mark boat for any upcoming Fall Series. Have fun playing with yourself.

 

As I stated a few pages back, I haven't done this event in a few years with good reason. I have no doubt that the volunteers at MBYC put a lot of effort into running this event, but in the end the event gets hurt by mishandled protests and inexperience in race management. I think the entire MBYC committee would benefit from some of the US Sailing training courses.

 

I do think that a Fall event at Cedar Point would be more interesting to a lot of people, I'm not a member of that club so I'm not in a position to organize anything, just stating my biased opinion. I've never had a good experience racing at MBYC, ever since I was a junior sailor in WLIS I've felt they run mediocre races and the membership generally doesn't want the competitors on the club grounds during the event. Again, this is my opinion, but I find it to be an extremely unfriendly place and would rather spend my time raking leaves those two weekends.

 

I don't think my critical comments are any reason for you to drop your mark boat duties, I'm sure there are many people who are grateful for your work. Take a deep breath, step away from the bullshit for a second, and realize that there may be a hint of validity in my comments. No one wants to deal with this sort of shit fight just to win a silver plated tray.

How many years ago did you do this event? When was the last time you saw the performance of the MBYC Regatta Committee? What other events are you making the performance comparison to? No problem, go on slagging race officers that may not even be alive anymore. Why don't you take a step back and admit that you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. You pissed in the wrong punchbowl, don't ruin it for everyone who does know what they are doing.

 

It's been about 3 or 4 years since I've had the pleasure of sailing at MBYC, so it's possible that all those people are dead. I'm really just stating my opinion, based on many years of sailing on the sound and spending more time than I would like at MBYC. There's probably some truth to my comments given that the numbers have been dwindling the past few years.

 

Sorry for pissing in your punchbowl, I didn't realize it was going to bring you to tears.

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This sort of shit is why boats are no longer signing up for regattas run by MBYC. Maybe Cedar Point can run a fall series to replace MBYC? It would be a good pit stop for a lot of boats on the way to Westbrook for the winter.

Where do these people get this holier than thou shit from? You go get Cedar Point to run a big boat fall series. Go ahead and try. Do you have any idea how many hours Sue Miller has put for you guys? Jesus Fucking Christ.

 

I'm sorry this isn't up to snuff for you. Maybe you can run the event for everyone else to sail in. Good luck finding judges. You better look for them now, because they're all getting booked up for 2015 already. I've had it. I'm going sailing. You just lost your weather mark boat for any upcoming Fall Series. Have fun playing with yourself.

 

As I stated a few pages back, I haven't done this event in a few years with good reason. I have no doubt that the volunteers at MBYC put a lot of effort into running this event, but in the end the event gets hurt by mishandled protests and inexperience in race management. I think the entire MBYC committee would benefit from some of the US Sailing training courses.

 

I do think that a Fall event at Cedar Point would be more interesting to a lot of people, I'm not a member of that club so I'm not in a position to organize anything, just stating my biased opinion. I've never had a good experience racing at MBYC, ever since I was a junior sailor in WLIS I've felt they run mediocre races and the membership generally doesn't want the competitors on the club grounds during the event. Again, this is my opinion, but I find it to be an extremely unfriendly place and would rather spend my time raking leaves those two weekends.

 

I don't think my critical comments are any reason for you to drop your mark boat duties, I'm sure there are many people who are grateful for your work. Take a deep breath, step away from the bullshit for a second, and realize that there may be a hint of validity in my comments. No one wants to deal with this sort of shit fight just to win a silver plated tray.

GFYM.

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Ahhh the Corinthian spirit and yachting camaraderie in full display.

Now if we can only figure out how to blame the WASPs?

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Hey asshole! Read the thread, the crew was at the club the first weekend both days and no protest was filed it could have been settled then. Six days later, after realizing that he and his crew can't sail, Tom Sinatra asked for a mulligan to protest for the previous weekend of racing. The blame for this lies with Tom Sinatra and the MBYC Protest Committee.

Going along those lines, Espo is just as guilty for dragging this out when he clearly did violate the rules. Be a man an admit when you got caught cheating. You sailed overweight and someone called you on it. Get off the pasta and into some running shoes.

Hey toughguy, did you sail with 5? No? Because you sure as shit weren't under ~1200lbs if not. What I was implying is that Hustler could've saved this whole drama had you just bowed out gracefully. I fully understand theres a few other parties worth pointing fingers at, but any one of them could end it. Hustler included. Dragging MBYC and their fall series through the mud b/c you don't wanna back down do to a bullshit protest, was it worth it?

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I think they were sailing with seven but I hear they were light in their loafers.

We've all seen hustlers crew, they have more than 1200lbs in hair gel alone. If wespy was sailing with em, they would likely be double their phrf rated weight limit.

 

 

Espo and his crew are such badasses why not man up and admit they "bent the rules". Tough guy talk means shit when you're simply full of it.

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Par Avion, on 18 Nov 2014 - 11:42, said:

Espo and his crew are such badasses why not man up and admit they "bent the rules". Tough guy talk means shit when you're simply full of it.

Agree with what you have said with the exception of "bent" the rules. They broke them or they did not break them. "Bend" not an option.

 

Me personally, I don't see how the math works out to 1260. Perhaps I am wrong - we will never know.

 

Knowingly sailing above the limit on your certificate is cheating. Maybe you get called out . . . maybe you do not . . . doesn't change the fact you are cheating.

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I guess if they would have weighed us any of the 3 days I had my crew their, we would have known what we weighed.

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I do think that a Fall event at Cedar Point would be more interesting to a lot of people,

.

We would be happy to host a J29 inter galactic at next years one design regatta. Scrape together 6 boats, toss the ratings and have fun!

 

No fall regatta in the work at the moment BUT keep your ears open for a big announcement for this coming May.

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One or more people need to do the right thing here. Bow out and try and save what little face remains.

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So what is the status of the protest? It is pretty clear they were over weight. Can they prove it ? Hustlers reputation has certainly taken a hit from this no matter the outcome. I agree with No.6. Someone needs to do the right thing here.

 

 

 

Par Avion, on 18 Nov 2014 - 11:42, said:

Espo and his crew are such badasses why not man up and admit they "bent the rules". Tough guy talk means shit when you're simply full of it.

Agree with what you have said with the exception of "bent" the rules. They broke them or they did not break them. "Bend" not an option.

Me personally, I don't see how the math works out to 1260. Perhaps I am wrong - we will never know.

Knowingly sailing above the limit on your certificate is cheating. Maybe you get called out . . . maybe you do not . . . doesn't change the fact you are cheating.

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The boat in question should just do the right thing. Weigh the crew, and if under, show it to everyone and show what a poor sport the other boat is. If over, do what the basic principle in the rules says to to: " A fundemental principle of sportsmanship is that when competitors break a rule, they will promptly take a penalty, which may be to retire".

 

It really doesn't matter whether you think the rule is right or if you've done it before. Its a rule. You either broke it or you did not break it.

 

Or to quote Paul Elvstrom: "You haven't won the race, if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors."

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The boat in question should just do the right thing. Weigh the crew, and if under, show it to everyone and show what a poor sport the other boat is. If over, do what the basic principle in the rules says to to: " A fundemental principle of sportsmanship is that when competitors break a rule, they will promptly take a penalty, which may be to retire".

This^^^.

Although I don't think the point is to show what a poor sport the other boat is. Just to demonstrate that they were mistaken, if that were the case.

Everything doesn't need to be a shitstorm or scorched earth. We, for the most part, are amateur sailors. It isn't a 24/7 deal and as such minding that we don't go 50 lbs over crew weight limits (or whatever), filing the perfectly crafted protest, impaneling a Protest Committee with well honed judgment and depth to get it exactly right, this just isn't our fate. Nor should it be, nor should any one of us expect it to be.

In an ideal world, which I hope no one here or involved in this thinks is possible, Smokin J would withdraw the protest, the PC would recuse itself and Hustler would withdraw with all agreeing that mistakes may have been made. Then retire to the bar, buy each other a drink, shake hands and leave the room as friends.

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The boat in question should just do the right thing. Weigh the crew, and if under, show it to everyone and show what a poor sport the other boat is. If over, do what the basic principle in the rules says to to: " A fundemental principle of sportsmanship is that when competitors break a rule, they will promptly take a penalty, which may be to retire".

This^^^.

Although I don't think the point is to show what a poor sport the other boat is. Just to demonstrate that they were mistaken, if that were the case.

Everything doesn't need to be a shitstorm or scorched earth. We, for the most part, are amateur sailors. It isn't a 24/7 deal and as such minding that we don't go 50 lbs over crew weight limits (or whatever), filing the perfectly crafted protest, impaneling a Protest Committee with well honed judgment and depth to get it exactly right, this just isn't our fate. Nor should it be, nor should any one of us expect it to be.

In an ideal world, which I hope no one here or involved in this thinks is possible, Smokin J would withdraw the protest, the PC would recuse itself and Hustler would withdraw with all agreeing that mistakes may have been made. Then retire to the bar, buy each other a drink, shake hands and leave the room as friends.

I agree. Just thought the other language would get a response. If I were Hustler, I'd want to show my good sportsmanship, and step up. Maybe have both crews there, make it fun and friendly, and ultimately have one crew buy beers for the other. The rules are the rules. Like them or not and you either obey them or you don't. Sometimes you make mistakes. If you make one and you know it, do the right thing and withdraw. That's what good sportsmanship is, and that's what people respect.

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Sounds like it's not a question of willingness but of having the proper process. Everyone talks about having em stand on a scale but has that formal process been begun yet by the proper authorities? Also, how do you all propose to get Hustler crew like sailman down from Rhode Island? Can he just step on his bathroom scale and send a cameraphone picture to suffice?

 

If I were sailman I'd demand a first class ticket from PVD to HPN :lol:

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Sounds like it's not a question of willingness but of having the proper process. Everyone talks about having em stand on a scale but has that formal process been begun yet by the proper authorities? Also, how do you all propose to get Hustler crew like sailman down from Rhode Island? Can he just step on his bathroom scale and send a cameraphone picture to suffice?

 

If I were sailman I'd demand a first class ticket from PVD to HPN :lol:

If I were Hustler, I'd offer that to put it to rest. If I were the other boat I'd accept that. Would people really cheat on this/ I'd like to think not. I believe most people are honest.

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Well Said !!

 

The boat in question should just do the right thing. Weigh the crew, and if under, show it to everyone and show what a poor sport the other boat is. If over, do what the basic principle in the rules says to to: " A fundemental principle of sportsmanship is that when competitors break a rule, they will promptly take a penalty, which may be to retire".

This^^^.
Although I don't think the point is to show what a poor sport the other boat is. Just to demonstrate that they were mistaken, if that were the case.
Everything doesn't need to be a shitstorm or scorched earth. We, for the most part, are amateur sailors. It isn't a 24/7 deal and as such minding that we don't go 50 lbs over crew weight limits (or whatever), filing the perfectly crafted protest, impaneling a Protest Committee with well honed judgment and depth to get it exactly right, this just isn't our fate. Nor should it be, nor should any one of us expect it to be.
In an ideal world, which I hope no one here or involved in this thinks is possible, Smokin J would withdraw the protest, the PC would recuse itself and Hustler would withdraw with all agreeing that mistakes may have been made. Then retire to the bar, buy each other a drink, shake hands and leave the room as friends.

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This topic has taken a nice turn....

 

If my reading comprehension is not letting me down, there are two issues here. The first is the crew weight, and the second is the timing of the protest. In both cases, the parties should do the right thing. I don't think you should expect Hustler's crew to do the right thing, but not expect the same of SJ. If the protest was filed after the time had expired, that is part of the rules as well.

 

I don't have enough of the facts to have a strong opinion here. In any situation like this we should expect all of the competitors to self-police.

 

 

The boat in question should just do the right thing. Weigh the crew, and if under, show it to everyone and show what a poor sport the other boat is. If over, do what the basic principle in the rules says to to: " A fundemental principle of sportsmanship is that when competitors break a rule, they will promptly take a penalty, which may be to retire".

This^^^.
Although I don't think the point is to show what a poor sport the other boat is. Just to demonstrate that they were mistaken, if that were the case.
Everything doesn't need to be a shitstorm or scorched earth. We, for the most part, are amateur sailors. It isn't a 24/7 deal and as such minding that we don't go 50 lbs over crew weight limits (or whatever), filing the perfectly crafted protest, impaneling a Protest Committee with well honed judgment and depth to get it exactly right, this just isn't our fate. Nor should it be, nor should any one of us expect it to be.
In an ideal world, which I hope no one here or involved in this thinks is possible, Smokin J would withdraw the protest, the PC would recuse itself and Hustler would withdraw with all agreeing that mistakes may have been made. Then retire to the bar, buy each other a drink, shake hands and leave the room as friends.

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