• Announcements

    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

touch too

Restoration of Ron Holland IOR yacht "Touch Too"

46 posts in this topic

My partner & I have spent the past 18 months re-building "TT". She was built in 1977 as an Admirals cup boat but it seems did not take part. During the 2004 Cork week she hit a reef & was dismasted causing some structural damage. We bought her & after a lot of work are starting to see some daylight at last. There is a website www.touchtoo.co.uk describing the work we have undertaken. Any new information regarding her history will be welcome. I will add some pictures to this thread shortly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Summer is over & we managed to get all of the outside jobs on the list done. The hull is painted, the deck has mostly been replaced & is at last watertight.

Next on the major item list is the mast, it has be overhauled & is ready for painting we are hoping to get it indoors for this.

I have added a few pictures of the boat here & there are lots more on the website.

 

post-68071-0-42173900-1353146717_thumb.jpg

 

There are some nice graphics to be added in the spring.

 

post-68071-0-66170300-1353147171_thumb.jpg

 

The deck has been repaired & epoxied.

 

post-68071-0-05375500-1353147208_thumb.jpg

 

All of the fore deck is new including the toe rails.

 

post-68071-0-76237000-1353146613_thumb.jpg

 

We made 3 towers to lift the mast & 3 trollies to move it with.

 

post-68071-0-96418400-1353147254_thumb.jpg

 

Our back garden cast mast step is a perfect fit inside the mast.

 

post-68071-0-02903500-1353147295_thumb.jpg

 

The latest item is a spinnaker track which we made then had anodized.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thats some serious work and an impresive show of craftsmanship. Casting and machining your own parts with a homemade furnace and hommade CNC machine. Did you mine and refine the aluminum yourself? I have a bridgeport mill with Mach-3 that I'm always looking for reasons to use for building parts for my boat or others.

 

http://www.touchtoo.co.uk/Parts%20Made.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Darkside.

I had a mentor many years ago (Dougie Bennett) who was a retired shipwright, he taught me that if you can't get it or afford then make it.

Next on the casting front will be a base for the hydraulic anchor windlass. I have a new reduction gearbox & old manual Lofrans windlass from which the main shaft is a perfect fit through the gearbox, this will be driven by an hydraulic motor from an engine mounted magnetically clutched pump. Loads of power & hydraulic pressure to drive other items.

Locally all we have is iron stone (going a bit too far?) so I have to melt old gearbox casings & other quality aluminium. However I have found that it pays to melt the scrap first then remove the dross & cast into ingots before remelting for the actual casting.

The mill I use for all sorts of things including engraving the lettering on the inside of acrylic electrical panels, picking out in white then spraying over with black plastic paint.

Although I started hand programming the mill with "G" code recently I discovered "CamBam" which uses layered dxf drawings to produce the code & works really well.

Anyway thank you for the encouragement.

Best regards,

Malcolm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

post-68071-0-39278300-1354270085_thumb.jpg

In the pipeline is an anchor windlass

post-68071-0-12717200-1354270145_thumb.jpg

Waterproof acrylic cockpit panel with reversed engraving

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, just checked your homepage, it is always interesting and rewarding to read about the work you are doing. I saw that the fuel tank was done and ready, why did you put isolation on it? How many liters?

 

//FOP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FOP

The fuel tank holds 77 Ltrs & is insulated to deaden any drumming noises as it is located under the aft bunk.

Also I hope that the insulation will reduce any build up of condensation inside the tank. I have no evidence to prove that it will

work but for a little extra effort I thought it was worth a go.

For insulating the hull I have a cunning plan which involves making quilts from 100mm of glass insulation wrapped in breather

membrane with some stitching to prevent sagging then fixed to the inside of the hull using either Velcro or double sided sticky tape.

It will be cheap to make, easy to fit & remove (most of all no spray glue).

During the recent snow I have been in the workshop making parts which as you know are shown on the "TT" website.

 

Great to see your work is being displayed & appreciated at the boat show!

Is your space frame new or original?

 

Picture attached showing new windows.

post-68071-0-12742500-1359361936_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hej TT, Ok then I understand, If I remember correct our tank is approx 120 l but no insulation, it will be interesting to learn if your tank insulation will perform as you hope. The hull insulation will be even more interesting to follow. The boat show will be really nice, grand opening on Friday and tomorrow I will clean the boat and bring parts to the show area.

 

Our space frame has been modified by Maria and the keelson is new since it was really badly corroded. Now everything is Awlgriped and looks nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FOP

Our tank is smaller than I would have liked but to squeeze it into that space it is as big as it can be, we shall carry fuel in cans as a back up & I might put another

tank in. As a race boat it had the tank near midships in the main cabin which took up a lot of room where you need it most. The original water tanks are midships

under the settee's & hold 68 ltrs each.

 

As soon as the weather improves I will spray the mast white using Jotun Mega Gloss, the standing rigging is ordered, all of the electrical panels are made & soon

I hope to start the engine.

 

We went to the Southampton boat show last year ( free tickets from the paint supplier ) & really enjoyed it.

I am sure that your boat will attract a lot of attention & that you will make some useful contacts.

 

Good luck, enjoy the show,

TT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have started insulating the hull with quilts made from glass fiber mat wrapped in breather membrane, I had this idea when looking for insulation that was cheap, light, effective & removable. It consists of 100 mm of glass mat covered with plastic breather membrane & held together at the seams with waterproof gaffer tape. The quilts are attached to the hull using strips of industrial double sided carpet tape. Some horizontal loose stitches through the quilt will prevent the mat from slumping inside the bag. Cutting holes through it can be done after fitting & the cut edges can be sealed with gaffer tape. Total cost of insulating a 12.6 mtr boat should be around £200 or less.

post-68071-0-93171500-1360651424_thumb.jpg

post-68071-0-64750600-1360651455_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of the insulation is fitted & this is how we made it.

 

1/ We measured the panel size & added 5%, the membrane & glass was cut to this size.

2/ The cut parts were placed on top of the membrane front panel which was cut with a 100mm overlap.

3/ Corners were then folded & tack taped.

4/ All of the overlap seams were folded then sealed with waterproof gaffer tape & double sided carpet tape placed at 400mm centres.

5/ Horizontal loose stitches can be put through both membranes at 400mm centres to prevent the insulation slumping.

6/ Fitting is done by sliding the quilt into place, removing the backing from the carpet tape then pressing to the hull.

 

Viewed from the front none of the tape or seams can be seen.

Holes or slits can be cut in a finished quilt then the edges sealed with gaffer tape.

 

This idea is our solution to the problem of a low cost DIY removable hull insulation, in due course we will find out how it performs & report the results on our website.

post-68071-0-02777600-1362728012_thumb.jpg

post-68071-0-82307200-1362728055_thumb.jpg

post-68071-0-20186400-1362728074_thumb.jpg

post-68071-0-49672900-1362728086_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the electrical front a new engine starting battery has been fitted along with the nav-station fuse & switch panels (picture below).

 

The engine has been started & run for 15 mins then the oil & filter was changed. We also changed the gearbox oil

& checked it with the engine running.

It seems that the engine was only a few months old when it was last used & not had its first oil change. This is born out by

how well it started & ran.

post-68071-0-05703100-1362730033_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Holland sure could design a PRETTY boat. This one is a fine example. I like the shape of the new rudder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This weekend I have been laid low with a stomach bug so will use the time to update this thread.

 

First thank you OPA1 for the comment she is a good looking boat, I think Ron Holland IOR yachts have iconic design features much like the E-type Jag.

 

Recent work completed includes overhauling the forward hatch with a new seal, 12mm acrylic glass & respraying the frame. The seal was a real swine to fit & took several attempts to complete.

I have made new settee top frames which are fitted with zigzag springs for a bit of comfort, they hinge up giving access to lockers below & will improve ventilation to the underside of the cushions unlike plywood.

It has been really cold here recently so we have been using an electric fan heater & since fitting the insulation the inside is really warm & pleasant to work in.

E-bay has been kind recently both with selling surplus items & buying bits like a B&G fluxgate compass & a Webasto heater, during the past two years we have bought a lot of items from E-bay for "TT".

 

All of the standing rigging has been made & delivered, new hydraulic hoses will be fitted to all of the rigging rams & as soon as the weather improves we intend to spray the mast, spreaders & boom.

After the mast has been fitted we are planning to launch "TT" & go sailing for a month, although she will not be entirely finished it will be a good idea to try her out before finishing the fitting out.

We hope to be in the water sometime in May which would be two years since we bought her & nine years after she hit a reef near Cork.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought I had developed some skills building things over the past 45 years but youse guys are making me suicidal! In the next life I'm coming back as a machinist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't do it SloopJonB, I am not really a machinist my working life started on a North Sea trawler & developed from there into engineering & now CAD design.

There is nothing like a fishing boat to develop multi skills.

 

Some pictures including settee frame with zig zag springs, nav-station, gas locker & repaired rudder.

 

Lots more stuff on our website link below.

 

http://touchtoo.co.uk

post-68071-0-65169600-1365664919_thumb.jpg

post-68071-0-97747200-1365664928_thumb.jpg

post-68071-0-02734200-1365664938_thumb.jpg

post-68071-0-68035300-1365664947_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I made it from 25x3mm welded steel angle & zig zag springs from E-bay. Don't think it weighs much more than a plywood base & would ventilate much better.

Could be made from aluminium angle if weight is a consideration.

There is a central "U" part to the frame to stop the springs pulling the middle together.

It is very comfortable to sit on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just visited the site. Your machining and casting skills are incredible. You have the talent and resources to resurrect practically any yacht!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some more pictures of the latest work which included sanding & painting the cockpit, fitting the new traveller track & teak ends, replacing a teak trim at the cockpit edge, fitting the hydraulic backstay ram & bolting two new genoa tracks to the deck. Two years of work so far & about two months to go still loads more to do but its good to be fitting parts instead of removing them.

post-68071-0-83191600-1367592384_thumb.jpg

post-68071-0-81188300-1367592400_thumb.jpg

post-68071-0-98140800-1367592417_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vinyl graphics added to hull, not an easy job but looks ok.

post-68071-0-04551500-1367837892_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Engine control panel with shore power connected. ( see website for panel construction info)

post-68071-0-61294300-1367838150_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been boat shopping and just recently checked out an old Peterson Two Tonner. It was in better shape than what you started with but I decided the amount of work and then crew needed to sail it were just too much for me.

 

Man did it fly when we took it out though! One of the best sails I've ever had. I was astounded by how light it was on the helm - barely more than my old Quarter Tonner. It was like sailing the worlds biggest dinghy. Standing at the rail, steering that battleship with a tiller extension was quite an experience.

 

You're doing very nice work and are in for some incredible sailing when you're done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you SJB, hopefully launch day will be this summer, the plan is to sail her for a month then back into the yard for more interior work followed by an early launch next year.

I can only assume that she will sail well, this is according to "if she looks good then she goes good".

This is my last big project I want to spend more time sailing & less time scrubbing Sikaflex or Gorilla glue off my hands!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have finally managed to paint the mast, this weekend there was a spell of good weather so we hung the mast from three towers, welded obsolete holes, sand blasted, filled & sanded then sprayed two coats of epoxy primer & three coats of Jotun Mega Gloss.

After two weeks the paint will be fully cured & ready to rig.

post-68071-0-18535300-1369647195_thumb.jpg

post-68071-0-59954100-1369647210_thumb.jpg

post-68071-0-10861800-1369647223_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Touch Too" now has her mast & rigging fitted, photos attached.

post-68071-0-23248900-1371896810_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey

 

It looks really nice :D I understood that you use an old Nautor mast? Did you put up some protection around it while painting? Looks really nice and glossy.

 

Keep up the good work. //FOP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is a Nautor's mast from a Swan 411 , Beautifully built with very nice welding. I removed all of the anodising with caustic soda then cut 328mm from the bottom to suit our sails & the certificate "P" dimension. The Swan 411 has a slightly taller rig than "Touch Too" there were problems with the spreader brackets that had been bodged in the past, so I fabricated new brackets & mounted them slightly higher which fitted in with the new mast length & correct percentages over the total length. There was a lot of welding & new rope outlet work to be done, also the chainplates have been moved outboard to suit the lower spreader width. We grit blasted the mast prior to priming with 2 coats of Jotun Megaprimer then followed 3 coats of Megagloss white. We were due to spray the mast indoors but the building was not available so we had to settle for outdoors with a polythene sheet erected around it, not ideal but it went ok.

After we had done a great deal of research & treated the mast as a tube which we modified to suit "Touch Too" it now looks like it was built for the boat., very pleased with it.

How is your project going?

TT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Touch Too" is now launched after ten years ashore & a three year refit. After a trouble free 80 mile cruise we are now in Hull marina. Work now will concentrate on setting up the rigging & sails then we plan to head to Scotland for the summer.

post-68071-0-92625900-1399355324_thumb.jpg

post-68071-0-71721100-1399355367_thumb.jpg

post-68071-0-27719700-1399355404_thumb.jpg

post-68071-0-22675000-1399355439_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hey, congratulations!

 

the boat looks terrific.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congrats - looks wunnerfull

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congrats - it is awe inspiring at how much good work goes into a classic like this and hopefully many years of exciting low maintenance fun for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kay and Malcom

 

Touch Too looks great and I am so happy for you, the feeling when you finally see all your work come together makes all the efforts worthwhile.

 

Pls continue to update your homepage, I enjoy reading about your project.

 

//FOP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's really great to see a classic boat brought back. Really impressive skills as well. It would be something to see Touch Too along side Flirt one day.

 

Question about your mast. Were you ever concerned about removing the anodizing with soda, that it might degrade the integrity of the aluminum? I'm debating what to do with my badly pitted black anodized mast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anodizing is really just a kind of dye - removing it takes about 0.001" or less of material off the mast so it has no effect on strength. If the spar is in need of paint, it isn't necessary to remove all the anodizing - it won't peel or anything as it's not a "coating" in the usual sense. If any remains after normal paint prep, just prime over it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SloopJB, agree it's not necessary to remove in order to paint. Was wondering why Touch Too did it. I've heard that heavy concentrations of the acid can etch, pit and damage the aluminum unless carefully controlled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First & most important the mast was expertly made by Nautors for a Swan 411 which is a close match to Touch Too. It is a 5mm thick wall extruded tube with a welded taper & welded mast head.

The mast was modified by myself to perfectly fit "TT" also the object was to make it very structurally sound & prevent any future corrosion.

 

Removing the anodising from the mast was done for the following reasons: First the anodising was in a very poor state, the mast had to be shortened & most of the fittings moved, the mast had sustained some damage in the past & 2 rope outlets were moved then the existing holes welded up using the same grade aluminium wire. Other welding to the damaged areas was also required.

All fittings were removed from the mast leaving just a tube all be it with a sleeved join in the middle.

Every welded area was fettled ready to epoxy fill if required before painting.

The mast was soaked inside & out with gallons of fresh water all through the stripping process, application of a fairly mild solution of caustic soda was done with a paint brush to a small area at a time then a stainless steel scourer was used to remove the anodising. This was carried out on the whole of the mast exterior, when a section was finished it was washed with loads of water & detergent.

After the mast was completely stripped yet more water & detergent was used. The bare mast was then left open outside for an entire winter, note that the aluminium used in the extrusion is very corrosion resistant & by springtime there was absolutely no sign of the slightest bit of corrosion caused by caustic soda, weather or electrolysis.

By this time I was sure that it was worth spending money on paint to finish the job.

The finish involved yet another detergent scrub & fresh water rinse, when this dried the mast was blasted with fine silica sand then 2 coats of epoxy primer was sprayed on when this was cured the gloss finish was 3 coats of Jotun megagloss, this was left for 2 weeks before the mast had all of its fittings replaced (most of which are new). All of the fittings are mounted with Sikaflex sealing them to the mast.

 

Incidental I had some foils re-anodised recently where the firm that did it stripped the old anodising using caustic soda in a much stronger concentration than I have used, yes it is the way to remove anodising.

 

I have also anodised quite a few small parts for "TT" at home, it is not difficult & for a matt finish involves degreasing the aluminium in caustic soda then washing it before immersing it into a bath of dilute sulphuric acid containing a lump of lead which is connected with aluminium wire to the negative terminal of a 12 volt car battery the item to be anodised is connected with aluminium wire to the positive terminal, the lead starts fizzing which indicates a reaction. After about half an hour the surface of the item is covered in microscopic open pockets. after washing & a bath in anodising dye the object is placed in boiling water for around 30 mins which closes the pockets & seals the surface.

 

What you end up with is a hard decorative corrosion resistant finish which is not ideal to paint over, however if you require a durable painted finish the clean keyed surface is the way to go.

To put this discussion into proportion I would be a lot more worried about electrolysis caused by bolting stainless fittings to aluminium than the process I used to refurbish this mast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites