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      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
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Donn

Schooner W. N. Ragland dismasted?

28 posts in this topic

Just got a call asking if I'd heard about Ragland, Neil Young's old schooner. Seems she was being delivered back to Neil - repo? - and arrived in the Bay Area minus both masts, only two splintered stumps. Speculation is that the cost to replace the masts is probably prohibitive and her future is uncertain.

 

Anybody seen her after her ill-fated voyage? Pics?

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Here's the story:

http://wnragland.wordpress.com/

 

Dismasted…

 

Thursday October 4th, 2012

Postion: 43*11.2 N 126*12.1 W

I am sad to report that at 2045 last night we were dismasted. Miraculously all aboard are alive, well, and relatively unscathed.

Shortly after sundown we notice an opening in a seem going up the length of the foremast. We call “all hands” to douse the fore course. We are sailing along with just the foresl’e, broad reaching in 20kts of breeze and 6-8ft swell. Not 5 minutes later, with the fore boom prevented over, we suffer a partial crash jibe which spits the foremast open. It totally delaminates. We fire up the engine and once again call “all hands” to drop the foresl’e. We wrestle the sail down, but not in time to save the mast, the hoops of the sail and gaff saddle are the only thing holding the mast together. As soon as we have tension off the sail, like a slow motion lightning strike. “CRrrrrrrACK” the 100ft foremast comes crashing down. Everyone runs for cover. We barely have to time to realize what has happened and mutter “Holy Shit” when again with that ear-peircing, gut wrenching CRACK! The main-mast followed suit, simply not able to hold itself up with the weight of the foremast pulling it down. And just like that, the Schooner W N Ragland was dismasted.

Not a moment was lost, nor a beat un kept, as the entire crew rallied in to action. We took a head and injury count. All accounted for. One bloody lip. Amazing! Flash lights, headlamps, knives, bolt cutters, wrenches, plyers, wire cutters, hack saws and anything else that seemed useful was pulled up on deck as the crew worked tirelessly to cut the rig free. Every single last shroud, stay, halyard, sheet, brace, and sail had to be cut. Everyone worked in unison. It took us two horrifying hours. I simply can’t describe the horror of seeing the jagged, splintered stalk of the foremast thrusting out of the water with every passing swell or the sound of the mainmast crashing again the hull each time the boat rolled.

When the task was done, not a trace of the masts to be found upon scanning the surrounding waters, and all lines on deck coiled and tidy so as to not wash over board and foul the propellor, our only mode of transport left to get us safely home, we put the engine in gear and began motoring south.

In silence, we convened. Some went straight to the liquor cabinet, others went straight to bed, 3 unfortunate few stayed up to take watch for the next four hours. Most importantly, we were all still there. And no one was hurt.

So we’ve plenty of diesel and a reliable Caterpillar engine. We’ll motor the rest of the way to San Francisco.

It is a true tragedy we have had to endure, but as Emyl so aptly put it… “some books need only begin with a tragedy.”

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Very sad, but hopefully not the end. Had a lot of great times with the crew on the old girl BITD.

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I saw her last night. She is tied up at D-Dock in Marina Bay in Richmond. I didn't have the presence of mind to take a picture. The ragged stumps of both masts are still in place, with big splinters reaching up about 15 feet off the deck. Someone was on board tending to the boat.

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Time to switch to carbon fiber masts with a faux wood finish. It's been done before.....

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Somewhere I have a photo I'd love to scan. In the summer of 1954, when I was four, Hurricanes Carol and Edna hit New England in late August, early September. After one of them i went out in the harbor with my father and some others to clean up what they could. There was a 40' or so ketch or schooner that broke both its masts, probably just rolled them out. My memory says one fell to each side but what I really remember was the dark varnished mast stumps and these long jagged bright pine chevrons at the break. They were solid pine spars- it sounds like the ones on Ragland were laminated.

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We built this lathe to turn some spars for the schooner Adventuress. IIRC the main gaff,main boom, and I think the main topmast. Interesting project. The main mast was done down in Oregon,I think it was around 140 to 160ft. A bit large for us. Ours could handle only to around 80ft.

 

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post-22256-0-55144700-1350081853_thumb.jpg

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Bob,

 

I used to drive the old 86' two masted gaff Alden schooner "Salee" and was in fear of loosing the foremast. It was pretty rotten up high when the owner sold the boat. The problem with many of those rigs is that all the shrouds are aft of the mast and there are no forestays on the mainmast. We didn't have a single bit of line that lead forward from the mainmast other than the gollywobbler halyard. So, if/when the foremast went, the only way to keep the mainmast up was to head down wind pronto. We in the crew actually talked about it, a lot. Thankfully, we never had to deal with the problem - the next owners did a few years after they bought the boat - and they kept the mainmast up. But, if these folks turned into the wind with the foremast broken and pitched over a wave, I'm not at all surprised that the mainmast went. It probably landed off the leeward quarter having nothing to support it from up forward.

 

What I find really puzzling is that the foremast would break in 20k of wind on a broad reach with only the foresail up. I'm guessing, but I would make an educated guess that there was something wrong with that foremast. A number of times I've seen folks put putty into the checks in solid masts. They do it for any number of reasons but mostly because they think the check (crack) doesn't look good or misguidedly they think they're helping to preserve the spar. My experience has been that if one caulks a check in a spar one is almost always asking for rot to develop behind the caulking where it can't be seen. This is precisely what happened to Salee's foremast above the fore-staysail hounds.

 

While an insurance company might think this boat is a write off - I'm sure someone like Rutherford's could fix it easily.

 

BV

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It seems to me that the boat is on the right coast for getting a replacement. Oregon pine is what they used on Bluenose2 and would probably do the trick. While a lathe is neat, a lot of big masts have been made witha skilled guy witha broad axe and adze. I hope that the boat gets put back together. The main is the photos appears to have a couple stays to the foremast but as BV points out there is nothing once the foremast goes and the weight of the broken fore would be tranferred to the top of the main. That might have helped bring down the main.

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A number of times I've seen folks put putty into the checks in solid masts. They do it for any number of reasons but mostly because they think the check (crack) doesn't look good or misguidedly they think they're helping to preserve the spar. My experience has been that if one caulks a check in a spar one is almost always asking for rot to develop behind the caulking where it can't be seen.

 

When I was a kid, we vacationed near Boothbay Harbor, and walked around the Hodgdon Yard. One summer there were two big schooners there. They were not new, probably there for repair of some sort. They had the west coast rig of a gaff foresail and bermudan main. I remember seeing deep checks in the masts and wondering if it was a maintenance/repair/safety issue.

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I'll walk down the dock and get ya'll a pic. She also caught fire the other night, apparently from sails resting against the heater vent on deck. The remaining crew was below decks and clueless until one of our residents alerted them to the flames.

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Just like you wouldn't believe everything you read about in the tabloids, I caution you not to believe everything that you read on Sailing Anarchy. Even if well intentioned, the truth can be far from what comes across.

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Just like you wouldn't believe everything you read about in the tabloids, I caution you not to believe everything that you read on Sailing Anarchy. Even if well intentioned, the truth can be far from what comes across.

Fuck of newb and show us reis' girlfriend's tits.

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Just like you wouldn't believe everything you read about in the tabloids, I caution you not to believe everything that you read on Sailing Anarchy. Even if well intentioned, the truth can be far from what comes across.

 

The only substantive thing in this thread is a long post that was up on the Ragland blog itself, then presumably removed when someone talked to their lawyer. Not sure what 'tabloid' untruths you are talking about.

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I believe everything on SA.

This is my religeon.

Nam you ho reng gay kyo, repeat after me

Oh yeah, I did that.

 

Clean:

I think it's time you and Mrs Clean came back to the shack.

We need some reflection time. It's not exiting but it's nice.

I will reserve our best room for you.

I'll get Max up here and the two of you can arm wrestle while I take care of the dogs.

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Just like you wouldn't believe everything you read about in the tabloids, I caution you not to believe everything that you read on Sailing Anarchy. Even if well intentioned, the truth can be far from what comes across.

 

The only substantive thing in this thread is a long post that was up on the Ragland blog itself, then presumably removed when someone talked to their lawyer. Not sure what 'tabloid' untruths you are talking about.

 

Hmmm--

Didn't realize the blog got erased. The entry as written still lives in post number 3 on this thread.

Problem?

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Turning a mast on a lathe! WOW Try a power planer, a tree and a couple of plywood pieces with a half hole cut as a template. You guys were spoiled! I am sure the adse is even cooler in that old-timey way, but really, f-that nonsense we have electricity now. Wait, what.. this is a 2013 thread. Why bump that?

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+1. That lathe is very very cool.

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