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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

      After fifteen years of volunteer moderation at SA, I will no longer be part of the moderation team. The decision to step aside is mine, and has been some time in the works but we did not wish to announce it in advance for a number of reasons. It's been fun, but I need my time back for other purposes now. The Underdawg admin account will not be monitored until further notice, as I will be relinquishing control of it along with my administrative privileges. Zapata will continue on as a moderator, and any concerns or issues can be directed to that account or to the Editor until further notice. Anyone interested in helping moderate the forums should reach out to Scot by sending a PM to the Editor account. Please note that I am not leaving the community, I am merely stepping aside from Admin responsibilities and privileges on the site.

Archived

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Schoonerman

US Built Viper at Long Beach Boat Show Oct 18-21

35 posts in this topic

If you want to see the first Viper off the Peabody, MA production line, we'll be there. A variety of owners will be on hand to talk about the West Coast fleets. Timbo is running the show!

 

4d95a3239bed957983e0dc1de229f391.jpg

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Come on down and chat, I think the build slots are filling up fast. :)

 

Great boat, lots o fun with the kids, what's not to like?

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How many USA Vipers have been built so far?

 

jason

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Does it have 'Made in the USA' stamped on it?

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Hey Jason,

 

Our US production is currently 3 boats/month and we are sold out through Jan. We can ramp up production to one per week, but the shop is very busy with large dinghy orders too. Canadian orders/inquiries are coming in as a result of NAFTA...woohoo. We have some large demo's coming up in Florida (See banner AD up top 'Fly to Try') Just finished a tuning clinic/regatta in Long Beach and will start the West Coast Circuit in January's Leukemia Cup in AZ.

 

I have a UK built boat coming to me via container with two K6's (sold), parts, trailers, keels and perhaps a K1 too !!

 

We are using two identical tools so there's no difference between boats. Most (but not all) USA folks are opting for US built boats. The UK plant is building boats for Europe and OZ. I'm going with a UK boat so I can get a demo in stock before May. Oddly, it's more affordable to get a container full of boats to the West Coast from the UK than it is via ground shipping from MA. It's a big country.

 

Dubs...the USA boats are US flagged :-D

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See banner AD up top 'Fly to Try'

 

In their marketing wisdom, the webgineers at Sailing Anarchy make the banner ad disappear when we open a thread....so unless I close this thread, I have no idea to which banner you refer.

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Dubs...the USA boats are US flagged :-D

]

 

So they are good to go for my new Old Saybrook to Orient Point sailing passenger ferry service.

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What is the beginning hull number for the first MkIII boat? Is there a particular sail number grouping for US built boats or some way to easily determine where a boat was built?

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What is the beginning hull number for the first MkIII boat? Is there a particular sail number grouping for US built boats or some way to easily determine where a boat was built?

 

There is not a formal distinction between Mark I, II and III. It is more a slang used by Viperers to distinguish between different periods of build.

Mark 1 is any boat built before Rondar.

Mark II are boats built by Rondar out of the Performance Boats Molds that they inherited.

Mark III are boats built by Rondar out of molds built by Rondar.

 

The first MarkII boat was hull#70 which is owned by the Rowlinsons in Ontario.(note that 61-66 are GBR reg'd but they were late Mark1s laid in USA and assembled in UK)

Any MarkIII is easy to distinguish because when Rondar built molds they widened the hull deck/flange to ensure a better bond between hull and deck. The hull diminsions are identical but you can recognize the distinctive inset deck at the transom creating a "sugar scoop" look. See picture above.

 

For location of build,AFAIK class hands out numbers in the order that they are built, but the reg # on transom should state country of origin....GBR or USA. Not sure what hull# BITUSA is, Spinn would know, but they are well in 200s now.

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What is the beginning hull number for the first MkIII boat? Is there a particular sail number grouping for US built boats or some way to easily determine where a boat was built?

To answer the first part of your question, I think the hull numbers for the three categories mentioned by Mambo Kings are something like this (approximately):

10-66: Mark I

70-105 (approx on the end of the series, class veterans might be able to say with more certainty): Mark II

106 - 179: Mark III

180 - present: Mark IV (i.e., boats built out of the new molds in the US and UK that have slightly larger cockpit lockers, slightly less aggressive non-skid on rails and a couple of other minor tweaks that do not appear to make a major difference).

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BITUSA is # 187, 1st Mark IV built in the states.

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See banner AD up top 'Fly to Try'

 

In their marketing wisdom, the webgineers at Sailing Anarchy make the banner ad disappear when we open a thread....so unless I close this thread, I have no idea to which banner you refer.

 

Working on it

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See banner AD up top 'Fly to Try'

 

In their marketing wisdom, the webgineers at Sailing Anarchy make the banner ad disappear when we open a thread....so unless I close this thread, I have no idea to which banner you refer.

 

 

http://www.rondarboats.com/us/anarchy

 

It's the Fly.Try.Buy program. Several events you can fly in and sail a Viper. We'll pay your airfare!

 

ps, I hear SA is rolling out new software this coming weekend :-D

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What is the beginning hull number for the first MkIII boat? Is there a particular sail number grouping for US built boats or some way to easily determine where a boat was built?

To answer the first part of your question, I think the hull numbers for the three categories mentioned by Mambo Kings are something like this (approximately):

10-66: Mark I

70-105 (approx on the end of the series, class veterans might be able to say with more certainty): Mark II

106 - 179: Mark III

180 - present: Mark IV (i.e., boats built out of the new molds in the US and UK that have slightly larger cockpit lockers, slightly less aggressive non-skid on rails and a couple of other minor tweaks that do not appear to make a major difference).

 

Peter has this nailed...

 

Rondar's first boat was the Mark II #70

Rondar rebuilt the tooling (as the first tool was dead) for the Mark III. Some minor upgrades, hull flange, etc. First Mark III was #103.

 

This winter Rondar built plugs and two identical, wide flange, tools....one for the USA and another for the UK. This could be called a Mark IV I guess. Quite a few minor upgrades. Bigger cockpit lockers (read HUGE) sitting on bezels so they are water tight. New non-skid patterns, some flanging matting, slight angle changes to better accommodate hardware, penske board backing plates, some slight rounding in the spinnaker launcher, new keel tool built to the class specifications, new top and bottom plate inserts, anodized keel cap with a relocated hoisting eye to better align with the hoisting load, 6:1 keel hoist, beefier keel inserts...that's all that's coming to mind, though I'm sure there's a dozen others that I've forgotten (damn the 70's). Like Peter says, nothing of consequence or speed, just to make life easier for our customers.

 

Boats coming out of Peabody look DAMN fine too !

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The first MK 3 was 102. Felipe and i took delivery of 102 and 103 at the same time (charleston race week 2009).

 

This is the first i've heard of any new keel tool. It is my understanding that keels have not changed, and although new keel tooling is being considered it has not been purchased yet. Could you confirm? I believe you may mean "keel template" but since fairing keels is not allowed, i'm not sure what good it does at this point.

 

 

What is the beginning hull number for the first MkIII boat? Is there a particular sail number grouping for US built boats or some way to easily determine where a boat was built?

To answer the first part of your question, I think the hull numbers for the three categories mentioned by Mambo Kings are something like this (approximately):

10-66: Mark I

70-105 (approx on the end of the series, class veterans might be able to say with more certainty): Mark II

106 - 179: Mark III

180 - present: Mark IV (i.e., boats built out of the new molds in the US and UK that have slightly larger cockpit lockers, slightly less aggressive non-skid on rails and a couple of other minor tweaks that do not appear to make a major difference).

 

Peter has this nailed...

 

Rondar's first boat was the Mark II #70

Rondar rebuilt the tooling (as the first tool was dead) for the Mark III. Some minor upgrades, hull flange, etc. First Mark III was #103.

 

This winter Rondar built plugs and two identical, wide flange, tools....one for the USA and another for the UK. This could be called a Mark IV I guess. Quite a few minor upgrades. Bigger cockpit lockers (read HUGE) sitting on bezels so they are water tight. New non-skid patterns, some flanging matting, slight angle changes to better accommodate hardware, penske board backing plates, some slight rounding in the spinnaker launcher, new keel tool built to the class specifications, new top and bottom plate inserts, anodized keel cap with a relocated hoisting eye to better align with the hoisting load, 6:1 keel hoist, beefier keel inserts...that's all that's coming to mind, though I'm sure there's a dozen others that I've forgotten (damn the 70's). Like Peter says, nothing of consequence or speed, just to make life easier for our customers.

 

Boats coming out of Peabody look DAMN fine too !

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Ultra, we just passed a rule to fair the keel to the class approved profile. The new keel tooling will match that profile.

 

New wording in the rules:

 

3.4 The keel foil may be faired after September 30, 2012, subject to the following:

The keel foil may be faired only to match the Class provided Viper 640 keel template and over the section from 50 mm above the top of the keel bulb to 25 mm below where the keel exits the hull when in the lowered position, must: A, meet that shape within plus 2 mm or minus 1 mm as measured on each side of the keel foil: B, the distance from the keels leading edge to its trailing edge measured perpendicular to the leading edge and parallel to its centerline shall be between 350 mm and 359 mm: C, and the keel foil trailing edge minimum thickness is 3 mm. The faired keel foil may be subject to inspection at any time after fairing for compliance with these tolerances and dimensions.

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Cool. So no tooling yet, but good that we can straighten them out. Where can i get a template?

 

Ultra, we just passed a rule to fair the keel to the class approved profile. The new keel tooling will match that profile.

 

New wording in the rules:

 

3.4 The keel foil may be faired after September 30, 2012, subject to the following:

The keel foil may be faired only to match the Class provided Viper 640 keel template and over the section from 50 mm above the top of the keel bulb to 25 mm below where the keel exits the hull when in the lowered position, must: A, meet that shape within plus 2 mm or minus 1 mm as measured on each side of the keel foil: B, the distance from the keels leading edge to its trailing edge measured perpendicular to the leading edge and parallel to its centerline shall be between 350 mm and 359 mm: C, and the keel foil trailing edge minimum thickness is 3 mm. The faired keel foil may be subject to inspection at any time after fairing for compliance with these tolerances and dimensions.

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Do you know anyone on the Tech Committee?? ;)

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Cool. So no tooling yet, but good that we can straighten them out. Where can i get a template?

 

Ultra, we just passed a rule to fair the keel to the class approved profile. The new keel tooling will match that profile.

 

New wording in the rules:

 

3.4 The keel foil may be faired after September 30, 2012, subject to the following:

The keel foil may be faired only to match the Class provided Viper 640 keel template and over the section from 50 mm above the top of the keel bulb to 25 mm below where the keel exits the hull when in the lowered position, must: A, meet that shape within plus 2 mm or minus 1 mm as measured on each side of the keel foil: B, the distance from the keels leading edge to its trailing edge measured perpendicular to the leading edge and parallel to its centerline shall be between 350 mm and 359 mm: C, and the keel foil trailing edge minimum thickness is 3 mm. The faired keel foil may be subject to inspection at any time after fairing for compliance with these tolerances and dimensions.

 

New keel tool is in production as I type this. Thanks to Milanes Foils for an outstanding job. The old tool had all sorts of defects but as you know, foil tools are expensive to build. In the long run it will pay itself off in saving labour hours, particularly with the number of orders in the que now.

 

Damn, I knew Filipe's boat was the first Mark III, just couldn't remember the number. (Once again, damn the 70's) Thanks Jeffe.

 

Yeah....who IS on the TC Timbo ;-)

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Most importantly, existing fleets are growing with new Viper sales to CA, NY, CT, RI & MA, and new fleets are gathering steam with Vipers going to FL, VA & IL.

 

The breathless anticipation and analysis paralysis due to the J/70 and VX seems to have broken. I think 2013 is going to be a big growth year for the Viper, much like after the M20 and SB20 actually debuted. I find it amusing that the Viper is now in some ways the safe, established choice for many. Or at least those who find the J flavor a bit staid for a sportboat. I think we're starting to see peoples eyes opened to sportboats, in no small part due to the J/Boats entry into the mix, as some here predicted. J/boats will sell plenty of 70's but enough people will look at the concept and like it, then look at the alternatives like the Viper. The one-design sportboat segment is only going to pick up steam in the US over the coming years...

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Hoorah Bubba. True words.

 

I have a friend who's a J dealer. He said he just can't be bothered selling J70's as there's no money, comparatively in the sale. He sells LOTS of boats other than J's too.

 

The J is a good boat...it certainly has it's critics (check out the J forum), as does the Viper and every other boat that's ever been dreamed, made or sailed.

 

Here's a deck for a West Coast boat being built...#190

 

a69feca651ffabbd9eddb32a643f2185.jpg

 

I want to install a cabin sole locker in the aft recess like SteveO's Shaw 650 to keep the beer cool :-D

 

I'm the strongest proponent for us leading the way in sportboats by installing beer holders into the seat tanks....like a Santa Cruz 50!

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Schooner, any chance we can get a look at the new larger lockers? I'm curious to see how much bigger they are.

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Schooner, any chance we can get a look at the new larger lockers? I'm curious to see how much bigger they are.

 

The f'n things are huge. I'll ask Timbo to snap a phone pic. I think they are about 3 feet long. The are a nice bonding element now and the hatch bezel and tempress hatches keeps them completely dry...trust me, I put a LOT of water in #187 in the SF NOODS :-D

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I want to install a cabin sole locker in the aft recess like SteveO's Shaw 650 to keep the beer cool :-D

 

I'm the strongest proponent for us leading the way in sportboats by installing beer holders into the seat tanks....like a Santa Cruz 50!

 

Sort of like these? :)post-25629-0-53421500-1354312963_thumb.jpg

 

I think the lockers are about 300% larger... before a 12 pack filled them up.. now 1 can get a 30can regatta box in each side.

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Cool. Good that we can straighten them out. Where can i get a template?

 

 

 

Didn't the "Thing" end up with Ultra after he flicked off his bulb?

 

No template, long board or Bible is going to redeem the "Thing". That Thing sir, is beyond any mortal help.

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Hoorah Bubba. True words.

 

I have a friend who's a J dealer. He said he just can't be bothered selling J70's as there's no money, comparatively in the sale. He sells LOTS of boats other than J's too.

 

The J is a good boat...it certainly has it's critics (check out the J forum), as does the Viper and every other boat that's ever been dreamed, made or sailed.

 

Here's a deck for a West Coast boat being built...#190

 

a69feca651ffabbd9eddb32a643f2185.jpg

 

 

By far one of the best looking viper decks built yet...

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Schooner, any chance we can get a look at the new larger lockers? I'm curious to see how much bigger they are.

 

The f'n things are huge. I'll ask Timbo to snap a phone pic. I think they are about 3 feet long. The are a nice bonding element now and the hatch bezel and tempress hatches keeps them completely dry...trust me, I put a LOT of water in #187 in the SF NOODS :-D

You can EASILY fit a 3' wooden paddle into the new lockers. With room to spare. For lots of beer.

 

Hmm... I'm thinking we should use about a 2" foam core for the lockers!

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Nice, yes ... We will start referring to it as the "thing"

 

I already have about 4 hours invested in it with a longboard. I've resolved myself to attacking it with a 6" grinder an twenty grit. Much easier to shape foam.

 

 

Cool. Good that we can straighten them out. Where can i get a template?

 

 

 

Didn't the "Thing" end up with Ultra after he flicked off his bulb?

 

No template, long board or Bible is going to redeem the "Thing". That Thing sir, is beyond any mortal help.

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Schooner, any chance we can get a look at the new larger lockers? I'm curious to see how much bigger they are.

 

The f'n things are huge. I'll ask Timbo to snap a phone pic. I think they are about 3 feet long. The are a nice bonding element now and the hatch bezel and tempress hatches keeps them completely dry...trust me, I put a LOT of water in #187 in the SF NOODS :-D

Here is a phone snap. Standard 16oz water bottle for scale at the far end..

 

post-25629-0-32767100-1354470263_thumb.jpg

 

 

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Here's the underside of deck #190. You can see that size matters when it comes to cockpit lockers.

 

Timbo. I LOVE the foam idea. I'm requesting that option on #200 (the Timbo edition) and we'll run a small drain pipe into the keel well :-D

 

490dea3d7f336c8569ccc18493de092a.jpg

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I like the centerline esky idea, the Schooner Bin....

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Here's #190, before attaching the deck, that will be heading West soon.

 

Navy Blue hull....f'n gorgeous !!!

 

post-23955-0-19739200-1354817725_thumb.jpg

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