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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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thetruth

Luna Rossa 72

3,208 posts in this topic

Is this likely due to the separation of Skipper and Helm roles on LR? If Max is skippering from elsewhere on board does this mean the helm doesn't get to see all of the added info? Wouldn't you want the helm informed anyway?

 

Or, does it get bolted on later? Did ETNZ have theirs fitted on launch day?

 

Nope, the dash was a later addition AFAIK.

 

What 'added info' by the way? Have you seen the displays? I have seen shots that show the dash and it appears to have a few buttons, but nothing I've seen yet shows any 'info' - perfectly likely though. Note that JS gets his data (or shopping lists?) via wrist-tablet.

 

 

My understanding is that the boats are the same excluding jibs, genekers, foils and colour scheme. The platform and wings are the same. This was set in place on purpose so the two boats can compare performance over the next few months. So whilst there may be cosmetic differences the areas where performance improvements can be made (foils, and sails...) can be tested in an effectual 2 boat campaign (although no data exchange will take place)with the results being interprested by the individual teams and then converted into the best setup.

 

What about the 'fuel fill' on LR?

 

Backstay turning block

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Dont see an extra coffee grinder to etnz,

The finns in the sidedeck are the same 238mm high

And as for the extra winch, you are looking at a coil of rope sitting on another coil of rope sitting on the deck

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What about the 'fuel fill' on LR?

 

I think you'll find that the 'fuel fill' has since been covered up and is now hidden from view. It is probably idenical to the ETNZ one only the ETNZ one was already covered up before anyone got a chance to photograph it up this close.

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The finns in the sidedeck are the same 238mm high
Thats a surprisingly specific number, do you happen to have any others? :huh:

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Worth another look.. (click to enbiggen)

 

DSC_7672_1.JPG

 

DSC_7667_1.JPG

 

DSC_7651_1.JPG

 

DSC_7656_1.JPG

 

DSC_8050_1.JPG

 

Missing dash and the 'fuel fill' is all I'm seeing now that looks 'other'. Does LR have the exposed rudder quadrant though?

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^

Tapered winch bases (more foot room) and access cover over fuel fillers.

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Wasn't he the same guy who did Alinghi cartoons during AC32?

 

UBS is in big shit. Laying off many employees.

 

Is Ernesto still on the UBS board?

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Wasn't he the same guy who did Alinghi cartoons during AC32?

 

UBS is in big shit. Laying off many employees.

 

Is Ernesto still on the UBS board?

 

Yea... they are the only bank in the world laying off employees in the last few years....they still show up on the billboards at every F1 race so they still have a few sheckels left ..

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Terry did you take the mirror picture ? not sure but it would be amusing.

 

No .. it's not one of mine ..

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Terry did you take the mirror picture ? not sure but it would be amusing.

 

No .. it's not one of mine ..

Whatever, congratulations for your nice pictures. Canonian ? Nikonian ?

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Terry did you take the mirror picture ? not sure but it would be amusing.

 

No .. it's not one of mine ..

Whatever, congratulations for your nice pictures. Canonian ? Nikonian ?

 

Nikon Canon until about two years ago .. these days it's mostly a Sony dSLT ..

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Terry did you take the mirror picture ? not sure but it would be amusing.

 

No .. it's not one of mine ..

Whatever, congratulations for your nice pictures. Canonian ? Nikonian ?

 

Nikon Canon until about two years ago .. these days it's mostly a Sony dSLT ..

Sony is doing best captors now. I'm a a previous Nikonian, now Canonian, thinking of the 1DX.

(end of the hijack)

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Alt_PI8_62841.JPG

 

Doesn't it looks a bit familiar ? (photos, credit to Sail-world)

Strange nobody noticed that the T rudder foils seems much bigger than the OR one ? Doug ?

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Alt_PI8_62841.JPG

 

Doesn't it looks a bit familiar ? (photos, credit to Sail-world)

Strange nobody noticed that the T rudder foils seems much bigger than the OR one ? Doug ?

Photoshopped :lol:

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Alt_PI8_62841.JPG

 

Doesn't it looks a bit familiar ? (photos, credit to Sail-world)

Strange nobody noticed that the T rudder foils seems much bigger than the OR one ? Doug ?

Photoshopped :lol:

:D:D

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Don't know about size, seems similar to me, maybe a bit bigger.

But the rudder seems vertical vs the hull being angled out :huh:

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Alt_PI8_62841.JPG

 

Doesn't it looks a bit familiar ? (photos, credit to Sail-world)

Strange nobody noticed that the T rudder foils seems much bigger than the OR one ? Doug ?

Photoshopped :lol:

 

GG12-SFOSEP-01220.jpg

 

What do you think ?

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Don't know about size, seems similar to me, maybe a bit bigger.

But the rudder seems vertical vs the hull being angled out :huh:

 

Being fitted can compare to a 5'10" Italian

post-33465-0-79542800-1351657517_thumb.jpg

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Don't know about size, seems similar to me, maybe a bit bigger.

But the rudder seems vertical vs the hull being angled out :huh:

 

Being fitted can compare to a 5'10" Italian

SL33 in background

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Alt_PI8_62841.JPG

 

Doesn't it looks a bit familiar ? (photos, credit to Sail-world)

Strange nobody noticed that the T rudder foils seems much bigger than the OR one ? Doug ?

 

Don't forget no component on the AC72 can exceed max beam so that limits the size of the 'T' foils on the rudder. OR 's rudders cant outboard so the outboard tip of the 'T' will hit max beam earlier than the vertical rudders of TNZ or LR.

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Another difference between TNZ and LR.

 

TNZ do not I believe have one of these!

post-33465-0-53619000-1351660733_thumb.jpg

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Wasn't he the same guy who did Alinghi cartoons during AC32?

 

UBS is in big shit. Laying off many employees.

 

Is Ernesto still on the UBS board?

FFS you're a retarded moron. As the whole fucking SA and the world knows for a fucking long time, he is not, hasn't been for years. And who the fuck cares. A simple referral back to Alinghi cartoons - which was a fucking cool sailing,marketing and branding team BTW- and you drag up shit like that.

 

Should we drag up that Oracle files stupid lawsuits, is sued by the US government for overcharging, and has laid off thousands of ex-Sun employees every time Oracle is mentioned? (And is Ellison still on the board, nay, owns, Oracle? Doh - Stupid)

 

Of course no one does, because that would be an arse curdling stupid thing to do.

Get a grip, a life and some perspective.

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Another difference between TNZ and LR.

 

TNZ do not I believe have one of these!

But I would have thought that they would use an Italian make slicer, not a Dutch one :) - not that I am not a little bit proud of that as a CCC (card carrying cloggie): some Dutchness on the seriously cool LR team.

 

f Italy spend as much time, effort and skill on their economy and their country as they do on their boats, cars, fashion and food, they could be world beaters. (Of course they will reply; "what else is there besides boats, cars, fashion and food?" - and they would not be far wrong ;-) )

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Another difference between TNZ and LR.

 

TNZ do not I believe have one of these!

But I would have thought that they would use an Italian make slicer, not a Dutch one :) - not that I am not a little bit proud of that as a CCC (card carrying cloggie): some Dutchness on the seriously cool LR team.

 

f Italy spend as much time, effort and skill on their economy and their country as they do on their boats, cars, fashion and food, they could be world beaters. (Of course they will reply; "what else is there besides boats, cars, tractors, fashion and food?" - and they would not be far wrong ;-) )

 

fixed,

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Do LR have a quick enough chase boat?

I would have thought that Patrizio would have insisted on their own 1200-HP Powercat tender as part of the deal :)

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LR has a 3x300hp 45 ft RIB, seen in some pictures, It's fast enough. Chase One is a NZL maritime industry showoff piece, not that I don't like it quite the opposite, but it's a bit overkill. Not even Oracle has chase boats that spicy, Artemis has 2x Yamaha 350 V8s on their.

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I haven't seen it if they do have one.

From the limited pictures I saw from the webcam today it looked like a mother duck teaching 3 little ducklings to paddle - the ducklings weren't keeping up.

Maybe that's where they want to observe from.

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LR has a 3x300hp 45 ft RIB, seen in some pictures, It's fast enough. Chase One is a NZL maritime industry showoff piece, not that I don't like it quite the opposite, but it's a bit overkill. Not even Oracle has chase boats that spicy, Artemis has 2x Yamaha 350 V8s on their.

 

Cheers.

I guess if Chase One earns it's money only once by righting the 72 then it will be all worthwhile.

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Another difference between TNZ and LR.

 

TNZ do not I believe have one of these!

But I would have thought that they would use an Italian make slicer, not a Dutch one :) - not that I am not a little bit proud of that as a CCC (card carrying cloggie): some Dutchness on the seriously cool LR team.

 

f Italy spend as much time, effort and skill on their economy and their country as they do on their boats, cars, fashion and food, they could be world beaters. (Of course they will reply; "what else is there besides boats, cars, fashion and food?" - and they would not be far wrong ;-) )

 

I bet they aren't slicing Dutch Proscuitto though. :)

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The launch food was Italian (cheese, cheese, proscuitto, bread, cheese, salami) but I think the beer was dutch!

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Another difference between TNZ and LR.

 

TNZ do not I believe have one of these!

But I would have thought that they would use an Italian make slicer, not a Dutch one :) - not that I am not a little bit proud of that as a CCC (card carrying cloggie): some Dutchness on the seriously cool LR team.

 

f Italy spend as much time, effort and skill on their economy and their country as they do on their boats, cars, fashion and food, they could be world beaters. (Of course they will reply; "what else is there besides boats, cars, fashion and food?" - and they would not be far wrong ;-) )

 

I bet they aren't slicing Dutch Proscuitto though. :)

It's not too bad though:

Nederlandse%20ham.jpg

And photographed on a mirror - how topical :-)

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As LR and TNZ are sharing design and performance data until the end of the year, and knowing that the number of boards is limited. On top they will sail together ...

 

Couldn't we think that they will compare different board/rudder shape on the 2 boats ? I mean they could test the double of board/rudder than the other no ?

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No 7

Doesn't look like the nicest place to spend 6+ hours on the water, tending to instrumentation data on laptops, etc, summertime notwithstanding.

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Alt_PI8_62841.JPG

 

Doesn't it looks a bit familiar ? (photos, credit to Sail-world)

Strange nobody noticed that the T rudder foils seems much bigger than the OR one ? Doug ?

 

Don't forget no component on the AC72 can exceed max beam so that limits the size of the 'T' foils on the rudder. OR 's rudders cant outboard so the outboard tip of the 'T' will hit max beam earlier than the vertical rudders of TNZ or LR.

That would be the most interesting comment of this thread.

OR would have to limit the size of its T because their hull is too sleak ?

So, if that is the case, and if the reason they can't foil is that their T rudder is too small, then OR has to work on a new boat to make a foiling boat ?

 

Two extrapolations, but worth making it.

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The T can be 7m wide if they want.

They just both need to stay within the 14m beam max.

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LR has a 3x300hp 45 ft RIB, seen in some pictures, It's fast enough. Chase One is a NZL maritime industry showoff piece, not that I don't like it quite the opposite, but it's a bit overkill. Not even Oracle has chase boats that spicy, Artemis has 2x Yamaha 350 V8s on their.

That gives you an idea of the top speed of the respective AC72, no?

ETNZ 1200 HP

LR 900

AR 700 (enough to break the beam anyway)

OR, uh, how much HP does that tugboat have? ;)

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The T can be 7m wide if they want.

They just both need to stay within the 14m beam max.

Correct, unless they want symetrical T

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Alt_PI8_62841.JPG

 

Doesn't it looks a bit familiar ? (photos, credit to Sail-world)

Strange nobody noticed that the T rudder foils seems much bigger than the OR one ? Doug ?

-------------------------

They look about the same to me except-and this is wierd-if you measure the length of the t-foil on either side of the vertical on LR the inboard side is longer! Maybe some sort of photo distortion? The angle of the photo doesn't look like it would account for this-but maybe.(Take a piece of paper and mark it-you'll see what I mean)

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It's a great looker and I wish them well, but as usual, they will probably lose with great style. La Bella Figura...

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Alt_PI8_62841.JPG

 

Doesn't it looks a bit familiar ? (photos, credit to Sail-world)

Strange nobody noticed that the T rudder foils seems much bigger than the OR one ? Doug ?

-------------------------

They look about the same to me except-and this is wierd-if you measure the length of the t-foil on either side of the vertical on LR the inboard side is longer! Maybe some sort of photo distortion? The angle of the photo doesn't look like it would account for this-but maybe.(Take a piece of paper and mark it-you'll see what I mean)

 

That's probably what I would have done. Since they're limited by the beam they add area inboard to make up for it.

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Worth another look.. (click to enbiggen)

DSC_7651_1.JPGMissing dash and the 'fuel fill' is all I'm seeing now that looks 'other'. Does LR have the exposed rudder quadrant though?

 

Is this not a more useful shot?

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Worth another look.. (click to enbiggen)

DSC_7651_1.JPGMissing dash and the 'fuel fill' is all I'm seeing now that looks 'other'. Does LR have the exposed rudder quadrant though?

 

Is this not a more useful shot?

Difficult to see if the inward part of the T is longer. Doug ?

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Worth another look.. (click to enbiggen)

DSC_7651_1.JPGMissing dash and the 'fuel fill' is all I'm seeing now that looks 'other'. Does LR have the exposed rudder quadrant though?

 

Is this not a more useful shot?

Difficult to see if the inward part of the T is longer. Doug ?

 

It's been stated repeatedly (here anyway ;) ) that they'd be testing foils other than those used on NZ72.1. We also see different main foils (some have cried 'fake' but based on what I'm not sure), but the only interesting comparison is with NZ72.1 surely - who cares how they compare to a completely different boat?

 

More interesting to me is the 'cassette' style rudder system, I asked earlier if anyone knew if this is a new thing - watch the LR video ^^ to see how easily they can be mounted. No sign of that from ETNZ that I know of to date - but then they obviously haven't been swapping rudders at the dock either (if at all).

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It's been stated repeatedly (here anyway ;) ) that they'd be testing foils other than those used on NZ72.1. We also see different main foils (some have cried 'fake' but based on what I'm not sure), but the only interesting comparison is with NZ72.1 surely - who cares how they compare to a completely different boat?

 

Max Sirena in the FV video interview stated that "real" boards won't be all that different from the presentation ones, but suited to foiling

 

More interesting to me is the 'cassette' style rudder system, I asked earlier if anyone knew if this is a new thing - watch the LR video ^^ to see how easily they can be mounted. No sign of that from ETNZ that I know of to date - but then they obviously haven't been swapping rudders at the dock either (if at all).

 

Which LR video? Nobody's mentioned yet the Rule req'mt that rudders be either rapidly removeable or free to rotate 360 degrees

 

 

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It's been stated repeatedly (here anyway ;) ) that they'd be testing foils other than those used on NZ72.1. We also see different main foils (some have cried 'fake' but based on what I'm not sure), but the only interesting comparison is with NZ72.1 surely - who cares how they compare to a completely different boat?

 

Max Sirena in the FV video interview stated that "real" boards won't be all that different from the presentation ones, but suited to foiling

 

More interesting to me is the 'cassette' style rudder system, I asked earlier if anyone knew if this is a new thing - watch the LR video ^^ to see how easily they can be mounted. No sign of that from ETNZ that I know of to date - but then they obviously haven't been swapping rudders at the dock either (if at all).

 

Which LR video? Nobody's mentioned yet the Rule req'mt that rudders be either rapidly removeable or free to rotate 360 degrees

 

Here @ 2:00 : http://www.3news.co....31/Default.aspx

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FWIT - LR are aiming to sail tomorrow, according to a team member. Seems to be getting pushed out daily.

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When did Giles Scott start sailing for Luna Rossa - I thought he was with Team Korea?

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Worth another look.. (click to enbiggen)

DSC_7651_1.JPGMissing dash and the 'fuel fill' is all I'm seeing now that looks 'other'. Does LR have the exposed rudder quadrant though?

 

Is this not a more useful shot?

Difficult to see if the inward part of the T is longer. Doug ?

 

It's been stated repeatedly (here anyway ;) ) that they'd be testing foils other than those used on NZ72.1. We also see different main foils (some have cried 'fake' but based on what I'm not sure), but the only interesting comparison is with NZ72.1 surely - who cares how they compare to a completely different boat?

 

More interesting to me is the 'cassette' style rudder system, I asked earlier if anyone knew if this is a new thing - watch the LR video ^^ to see how easily they can be mounted. No sign of that from ETNZ that I know of to date - but then they obviously haven't been swapping rudders at the dock either (if at all).

 

A lot of the sporties use this system, Melges 32 comes to mind

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I've heard they are getting a support Cat RIB tender the same as ETNZ. Should be in build as we speak. I look forward to its colour scheme.

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Why pussyfoot around with that ? If your gonna go, go BIG :)

 

crazyboat.jpg

Imagine all those props acting against one another :blink: ...unbelievable!!

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Crane up... italian style, starting the day at 10h30 :D

 

Yeah, but in the afternoon they'll feather the wing, take a little nap on the trampoline, and stay out testing until 8:30 pm. Back just in time for dinner at 10.

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Crane up... italian style, starting the day at 10h30 :D

 

Yeah, but in the afternoon they'll feather the wing, take a little nap on the trampoline, and stay out testing until 8:30 pm. Back just in time for dinner at 10.

 

In earleir AC's you could always tell when the Italians were going to tack as they would toss their cigarettes into the drink just before it was " helm over " :)

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More interesting to me is the 'cassette' style rudder system
Thats no cassette, they're just poking the rudder stock up through the bearing.

ETNZ rudder stock mounts tiller on deck behind Barker so LR probably has same.

CC121017-043.jpg

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Why pussyfoot around with that ? If your gonna go, go BIG :)

 

crazyboat.jpg

How many minutes can they try to follow an AC72 before running out of gas ? :D

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Why pussyfoot around with that ? If your gonna go, go BIG :)

 

crazyboat.jpg

How many minutes can they try to follow an AC72 before running out of gas ? :D

 

Quite awhile actually . Modern outboards are some of the most efficient propulsion systems currently in use.They could run on the middle four for non foiling activity and then dial in the last four for foiling runs :)

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Alt_PI8_62841.JPG

 

Doesn't it looks a bit familiar ? (photos, credit to Sail-world)

Strange nobody noticed that the T rudder foils seems much bigger than the OR one ? Doug ?

-------------------------

They look about the same to me except-and this is wierd-if you measure the length of the t-foil on either side of the vertical on LR the inboard side is longer! Maybe some sort of photo distortion? The angle of the photo doesn't look like it would account for this-but maybe.(Take a piece of paper and mark it-you'll see what I mean)

 

that's a photo illusion as they are swept

 

if you swept them at 45 degrees and then took the photo at 45 degrees 1 of them would disappear!

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Looks like they are really going saling today. They were up early. Crane up by 8am local time .Wing is on the crane.

 

Low cloud day. Virtually no wind around Westhaven.

 

Ideal for a learner driver.

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Must be doing the makeup as they are not moving on the web cam.

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She came off the crane around 930am local time. Went for a quick look and the crew appear to be familiarising themselves with all the equipment. Winding the wing in and out. It all looks pretty relaxed.

 

No real urgency to get the cat underway. Moveout onto the harbour an hour or two yet I would guess.

 

Very light winds around Westhaven. So maybe waiting for the breeze to build.

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She is on her way being towed out past the breakwater into the mainstream of the harbour. Steady 6 knots of brezze out of the north -onshore breeze to those overseas. Going down harbour as expected.

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She is off and flying down harbour on her own. One big rib and one smaller one at the back in attendance.

 

Quite a sight.

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She is off and flying down harbour on her own. One big rib and one smaller one at the back in attendance.

 

Quite a sight.

 

Flying meaning foiling or just going fast?

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Did anyone see the shape of the foils?

Were they "L" or "S"?

 

Isn't that great two foiling AC72s to watch and talk about.

Let us hope there will be three tomorrow!

 

And OR comes in ahead of schedule. Then with Hydro.. in the Transpac sailing will be going faster in leaps and bounds!!

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yeh they just took it out of the shed and foiled down the harbour!

 

being towed into the channel now

 

 

http://www.spencerho....nz/webcam.html

 

how cool is that

 

fresh out of the box

 

someone is on the cam

 

but it seems far off the northern beaches and the light is poor

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I caught a glimpse when someone was driving the cam about 20 minutes ago, they looked pretty good.

 

Anyone spot a helicopter in the air? May have been a bird close to the hotel, was hard to tell.

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Wow foiling on day one. Italian cojones! Really curious to see if L foils were used. If so, OR design=suck.

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Lots of wheelies and up/downs, but for the first day out, pretty good!

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Well I would imagine Max and the boys would be pretty happy after one day out on the water. Lots of time under sail, and some good foiling at the end. Not sure which foils they had on but I suggest not the full s curve ones so all up a good outing.

 

I know they were jumping out of their skins to get on the water so there will be some good spitrits back in the base tonight.

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