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      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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Kent H

Tartan 34C 1968 - Pop Quiz - Who designed this boat?

28 posts in this topic

The answer may surprise you.

post-195-0-54343200-1351311416_thumb.jpg

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S&S designed Tartan's boats until Tim Jackett took over in the early 80's. I think he actually did much of the work before that but if he's lurking here he can tell us. I think one of the first Tartans was designed by someone other that S&S maybe Hood . Some of the early Tartan literature included an article from the Cleveland Plain Dealer with lots of photos of Olin Stephens and Charlie Britton when they launched the Tartan 27. The article talks about the soon to e hatched Tartan 34. It's a lovely old boat that sails well. It did separate the keel from the rudder and is big enough for a nice trip to Bahamas. Too much balsa in them for my taste but many have seen lots of sea miles without falling apart...

my .02

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Stephens is quoted in various places that he did very little drawing board work after the 1930s. When you get a boat from a firm like S&S, it's a collaboration.

 

Heck, even BP collaborates on some things at some times.

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When you are busy you need help in the office. I have had many helpers over the years. S&S had many, many more than I did. It's fun to look at that sail plan. But we still don't know who drew the hull lines. Just because Frers drew the sail plan that does not mean he drew the lines. I think that bootstripe is wonky looking. The top edge droops too much too far aft. If I were to hazzard a guess I'd say the bootstripe was on the hull lines. And given the skill of Frer's eye I'd go on to say that I think he did not come up with that bootstripe. I bet he traced it off the hull lines. I think he would have drawn a better bootstripe if he had a clean sheet of paper.

 

But I'm probably wrong.

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Bob,

 

My boat was floated before it was painted, I assume to locate the bootstripe on the hull. Is that usual?

 

Hopefully I'll be able to get my turntable up to the house and set up this weekend. Ann has a lot of chores for me in the yard. Now I have to go help her get the aerator on the tractor.

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kdh:

Good, get that turntable set up. If it has been a while since you listened to vinyl I think you will be amazed. Cartridges can get stiff with age as the rubber grommet hardens up. There are some very good reasonably priced cartridges available. I can assist you if you think a replacement is warranted. ( When I say "cartridges" imagine me saying it in that Homer Simpson voice, "bacon")

 

I just got off ARCHIV music placing a nice fat order of new classical recordings. Yum! ARCHIV is first rate, huge selection, great website and fast delivery. I can't wait.

 

No, No, No!

Imagine me telling a builder, "Well, just launch it and we'll see where it floats." Right.

I'm certain that it is done and it's not unusual for a builder to float a new boat in his "tank" to check flotation (several Taiwan yards had big tanks) but most builders rely on the designer to get it right.

There are few more satisfying moments than when a designer sees a new boat launched and float right where he predicted. It has taken me 40 years to perfect my smug "I knew exactly where it would float" look.

 

Raining hard here. Dogs are sleeping. But I don't have to worry about a stinking Taiphoon like you East coast guys.

Stay safe.

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I just looked at the layout and noticed that the engine is off-set. Never noticed that before

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There is some talk of a "perfect storm" situation of the Sandy low being amplified by other low pressure systems to the point that the severity would be comparable to the hurricane of '38. That's not what happened then, but it was severe. We have a couple hundred acres behind us and practically every tree was blown down in '38.

 

The most likely scenario is much more benign.

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Well ummm.... as usually I think Bob is right. I could see that in the 1967 interior plan the initials did not appear to be GF jr. But I just thought that prior to computers that the same guy who drew the hull and foils would definitely do the rig as well. There is some hand written math in that stuff!

 

There are several stories that mention others but once again there was an optional yawl rig and then the change to a larger diesel and other modifications. These plans are on the web and they were not drawn by GF jr

 

I am going to leave this one alone. Maybe a Tartan owner has a set of hull plans for the 34 from 1967 that have the initials listed.

 

Boomer depp was kind enough to post what info he had. There is a set of hull lines from 1967. However the initials are hard to read. They might be DWG....then again what I am looking at may not even be the initials of who drew the plans. I checked the S&S alumni list and there should not have been anyone with the first intial D working on this project in 1967.

 

Offset engine - I didn't know that either. I think the reason that neither of us noticed is that there is very little shaft that exits the hull on the stub of the keel. The shaft is only seen for a few inches on either end.

 

Olin Sparkman - That is definitely a good way to decide on a broker. Can you do your listings correctly.

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Engines are usually angled to counter torque effect of prop. S&S were big on centering weights so another possible reason is engine is in middle of boat and had to design a reasonable floor plan with engine amidships.

 

DWG, now isn't that an abbreviation of 'Drawing'. S&S were the premier design shop in '50s, '60s and 70's. Like any large design firm, they hired draftsmen, NA's, etc and probably had the pick of available talent. Trying to determine who drew the lines from a sail plan dwg is a fools journey as it could be someone who actually designed or just someone good with a pencil who was asked to put down on paper dimensions worked out by an engineer. To find the person who actually designed the boat, you'd have to find someone who worked at S&S in the '60s to tell you. It very well could have been a collaboration of a number of people.

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Off-center center engines are rare birds. Purchasers eschew them because they seem odd and designers and builders want to sell boats and an off center iron horse is an impediment

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I think Rover is correct. Those designs were group efforts. Some were great boats and some were ordinary boats. I don't worship at the S&S altar. It was a bit of a factory.

"DWG" is almost certainly "drawing", what an awful set of initials for a draftsman to have. "Who's on first?"

But I think it's valid and fun to try and trace the components of the design down to the specific design team involved. It all started with the hull lines so I'm very interested in who drew the specific lines to each design.

 

Having worked in other design offices I can tell you for a fact that it's a bit disurbing after working your ass off to produce a beautiful drawing to have a client say to your boss, "What beautiful drawings you do." And then have the boss say, "Thank you." I also know that some of the designers who worked at S&S were a wee bit bitter when they left. But hell, given the volume of work that S&S put out I can't see it happening any other way. And if for a moment you don't think I admire the work of S&S just take a look at this. Doesn't get much better than that.

post-2980-0-93616300-1351807175_thumb.jpg

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Well fools journey it may be but interesting to me and perhaps to the owners of the boat. Also it is a short journey of not much time and no investment.

 

There is a set of hull lines and after looking at them they are not in German Frers jr's handwriting. His writing is very distinct from this time period. For instance several letters and especially numbers will go below the line that they are written on that would be odd for someone from the U.S. So it looks like I was wrong. Not the first time and I doubt the last.

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Kent:

Don't be fooled. Frers was a young man at the time and he may have been playing with various letterring styles. We all did that.

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Clip <Having worked in other design offices I can tell you for a fact that it's a bit disurbing after working your ass off to produce a beautiful drawing to have a client say to your boss, "What beautiful drawings you do." And then have the boss say, "Thank you.">

 

Amen to that.

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...I admire the work of S&S just take a look at this. Doesn't get much better than that.

 

So much of that boat is under water. But look at what's above water. Gorgeous. It's probably ridiculous to ask what we'd do with that design given what we know now. I'd like to know I could back a modern version into my slip.

 

How about changing nothing except replacing the rudder with a spade hung as far aft as reasonable?

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A must read is "Addicted to Sail", by Norris D. Hoyt. He sailed on Bolero, along with all the legends of the time, and has many stories. As a bonus, he's an excellent writer.

 

norris%20hoyt%20book%20cove%20201xr.jpg

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Bob, you undoubtedly have a much deeper appreciation than most of us, besides aesthetics, of this boat. What do you see in the hull lines that make you not want to change a thing?

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The Tartan 34 was a popular boat in Mass bay in the 70's.I sailed on a couple of them.The cockpit was horrible.The most uncomfortable cockpit of any boat Ive ever sailed on.One of my favorite boats Was Jezabel,She was an S&S 36,wood, bright finished,beautiful, and fast. I did a Jeffries Ledge race on her around 1976-77.

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kdh:L

I would not change a thing on that design. I'd rather change myself.

 

I met the owners, Ed Kane and his wife Marty, at a local hunt club gathering. I asked them about the boat, the transom was still bright then. They seem to be having a lot of fun owning her and they've treated her very well from what I know.

 

bolero-jb2345.jpg

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32:

I think what I likeabout this design are the overal proportions,i.e. low freeboard, small deck structures, sweeping sheer and shapely ends plus it's hard to argue with the paint and varnish job. As for the underbody I like the organic flow to the lines. It may not be the shape of speed today but it sure looks right and sweet to my eye.

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Beautiful boat! Bolero was based on Olin Stephen's own family boat Dorade, designed by him when he was only 20 years old, which won the 1931 Transatlantic Race and the Fastnet Race the following year. Even with all that wetted surface, she must have been fast for her day. With that deep keel and narrow beam, she must have had tremendous stability for ocean racing.

 

I like that Tartan 34, too. Amazing bargain at $18K.

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