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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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bladerunnerSWE

fastest boats around 35'

74 posts in this topic

So people what's the fastest category 3 boat around 35'?

 

Just to get the ball rolling

 

Shaw (9,10,11) , psaros33, farr400(?), general lee?

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The Cone goes OK and quite easy to steer.

Just watch out for water spouts.

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Just saw the brand new Bieker 35 up in Anacortes, WA. No rig yet, but it looks really nice.

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Just saw the brand new Bieker 35 up in Anacortes, WA. No rig yet, but it looks really nice.

 

That is the Riptide 35 MKII

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Just saw the brand new Bieker 35 up in Anacortes, WA. No rig yet, but it looks really nice.

 

That is the Riptide 35 MKII

 

Doh! I was going to say that but I missed the punch. But here:

 

http://www.biekerboa...de_35_MKII.html

 

For a long time racer in Vancouver.

 

But wait - there's more!!!

 

http://www.biekerboa...Riptide_41.html

 

Not a 35ish but the bigger sister that is dead sexy! I sailed on Dark Star for Straits and I met the new owner.

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The Cone goes OK and quite easy to steer.

Just watch out for water spouts.

 

I'd argue that the cone is one of the harder boats to steer down wind. Especially with the small rudder. With AWA at anything above 110 and a reaching kite up you've got about a 10 deg window of keeping her on her bottom, add swell to the mix and you better be paying close attention...I don't think I've been on/driven a boat that's easier to loose control of...

 

If you're doing point to point races though you'll be hard pressed to find a boat in this size that's as fast and fun! Upwind for anything more then 10 miles is borderline torture...

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Interesting how this thread is all about reaching and running with flivvers. I guess you guys never go upwind, except in your Cigarette boats. Sailing to me was never solely a speed issue, rather it was a matter of power. It was also all about going upwind. There is nothing as satisfying as powering upwind and shouldering the seas aside with a powerful monohull. It is proper sailing. This simple planing speed mentality is very youthful and not unlike going over jumps on your little BMX. Keep your youth, but when you grow up try real sailing upwind in a blow and savour the concept of power, unless of course your little flivver just sank.

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Interesting how this thread is all about reaching and running with flivvers. I guess you guys never go upwind, except in your Cigarette boats. Sailing to me was never solely a speed issue, rather it was a matter of power. It was also all about going upwind. There is nothing as satisfying as powering upwind and shouldering the seas aside with a powerful monohull. It is proper sailing. This simple planing speed mentality is very youthful and not unlike going over jumps on your little BMX. Keep your youth, but when you grow up try real sailing upwind in a blow and savour the concept of power, unless of course your little flivver just sank.

 

"...nothing as satifying as powering upwind and shouldering the seas aside with a powerful monohull." Do you mean with your pants on?

aa

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farr11s seems to be the best bang for the buck atm

does anyone have eny experiance with that design`?

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Another vote for Riptide 35. Not sure if the MK II is going to be quite as fast as the original design, but I climbed around on it in Anacortes this past weekend and it's really nice. It has a sprit bigger than your house!

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Interesting how this thread is all about reaching and running with flivvers. I guess you guys never go upwind, except in your Cigarette boats. Sailing to me was never solely a speed issue, rather it was a matter of power. It was also all about going upwind. There is nothing as satisfying as powering upwind and shouldering the seas aside with a powerful monohull. It is proper sailing. This simple planing speed mentality is very youthful and not unlike going over jumps on your little BMX. Keep your youth, but when you grow up try real sailing upwind in a blow and savour the concept of power, unless of course your little flivver just sank.

 

"...nothing as satifying as powering upwind and shouldering the seas aside with a powerful monohull." Do you mean with your pants on?

aa

 

"There's nothing like plowing a furrow in the ocean, surging down into trough after trough while rolling rail to rail and exceeding the mighty yacht's hull speed by a tenth of a knot"

 

 

How'd he slip off my "Ignore" list? Sounds like he's been curled up in his armchair reading "Master & Commander" again.

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If you want fast, get a Melges 32. And yes, they can go upwind in but they are not so much fun in a chop.

 

Philippe_Kahn_Pegasus_Racing_Melges32_Big_Breeze_Key_West_2008_Med_01.jpg

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Wut?

 

8 posts and no J/105?

 

They plane, right?

Yeah, but only upwind :-(

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That Kiwi canter looks pretty quick. Does anyone know if the canting is done with electrical/diesel/hydraulic power or is it manual/winch?

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farr11s seems to be the best bang for the buck atm

does anyone have eny experiance with that design`?

 

The one i've sailed has over 400K in to it, so not sure where best bang for the buck comes in. The companionway and fore hatch are not weatherproof and the design brief is as a coastal day sailor. No deck house, Wet wet wet in chop and although very efficient hull design, it is an underachiever.

 

I would love to spend hours downhill in smooth water doing a steady 20kts, but that doesn't happen often. Another huge drawback is the outsized main which would need additional reef points added. The Current 3DL with one reef came in just south of 30K USD.

 

It is a very high quality build but no Cat 3 contender. it's a neat toy for well heeled PHRF beer can racers and nothing more.

 

The Columbia 32 Carbon a few slips over would be a way better choice, the running rigging seems a bit tender for real offshore work, and the main sheet, back stay, traveler arrangement would need proper redesign and hardier kit, but all that could be accomplished in a weekend.

 

Slip some proper 3di sails on and you have a real contender under half the price of the 11s

Cheers.

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That Kiwi canter looks pretty quick. Does anyone know if the canting is done with electrical/diesel/hydraulic power or is it manual/winch?

 

it's winched on the 9 and 10

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Hobie 33 will give you a lot for the money.

I agree, what a fun boat! You can pick one up $15k-$20k and set up right they can sail a lot faster than their 96 PHRF Spin rating.

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farr11s seems to be the best bang for the buck atm

does anyone have eny experiance with that design`?

 

The one i've sailed has over 400K in to it, so not sure where best bang for the buck comes in. The companionway and fore hatch are not weatherproof and the design brief is as a coastal day sailor. No deck house, Wet wet wet in chop and although very efficient hull design, it is an underachiever.

 

I would love to spend hours downhill in smooth water doing a steady 20kts, but that doesn't happen often. Another huge drawback is the outsized main which would need additional reef points added. The Current 3DL with one reef came in just south of 30K USD.

 

It is a very high quality build but no Cat 3 contender. it's a neat toy for well heeled PHRF beer can racers and nothing more.

 

The Columbia 32 Carbon a few slips over would be a way better choice, the running rigging seems a bit tender for real offshore work, and the main sheet, back stay, traveler arrangement would need proper redesign and hardier kit, but all that could be accomplished in a weekend.

 

Slip some proper 3di sails on and you have a real contender under half the price of the 11s

Cheers.

If you paid anywhere near $30kUS for a 3dlmain for an 11s, you got ripped off. By about $15k. That could explain why you have $400k into a $200k boat. That you would be lucky to sell for $100k.

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farr11s seems to be the best bang for the buck atm

does anyone have eny experiance with that design`?

 

The one i've sailed has over 400K in to it, so not sure where best bang for the buck comes in. The companionway and fore hatch are not weatherproof and the design brief is as a coastal day sailor. No deck house, Wet wet wet in chop and although very efficient hull design, it is an underachiever.

 

I would love to spend hours downhill in smooth water doing a steady 20kts, but that doesn't happen often. Another huge drawback is the outsized main which would need additional reef points added. The Current 3DL with one reef came in just south of 30K USD.

 

It is a very high quality build but no Cat 3 contender. it's a neat toy for well heeled PHRF beer can racers and nothing more.

 

The Columbia 32 Carbon a few slips over would be a way better choice, the running rigging seems a bit tender for real offshore work, and the main sheet, back stay, traveler arrangement would need proper redesign and hardier kit, but all that could be accomplished in a weekend.

 

Slip some proper 3di sails on and you have a real contender under half the price of the 11s

Cheers.

If you paid anywhere near $30kUS for a 3dlmain for an 11s, you got ripped off. By about $15k. That could explain why you have $400k into a $200k boat. That you would be lucky to sell for $100k.

 

The main is a 3DL 800 and delivered through the Toronto Loft. It is 120% class and sports a near 3m flat top, Guess the adage If you have to ask...........

 

The keel control servo valve on this one is lifted from an A380 rudder assy. it supports advanced accel decel capabilities to reduce shock to the rig and utilizing some very sophisticated proprietary software can maintain a preset heel angle using a dynamic mode and flying the keel. ( no not for racing it is a development concept)

 

Very cool platform, makes a great surrogate for development concepts like the ones mentioned above.

 

If you find one for 100K in the western hemisphere send me a link. There are only 6 examples sailing and only one for sale Tazo in UAE for 175K

 

 

Not my program, great bunch of folks and a super cool owner. I just trim main there on occasion.

 

cheers

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Interesting how this thread is all about reaching and running with flivvers. I guess you guys never go upwind, except in your Cigarette boats. Sailing to me was never solely a speed issue, rather it was a matter of power. It was also all about going upwind. There is nothing as satisfying as powering upwind and shouldering the seas aside with a powerful monohull. It is proper sailing. This simple planing speed mentality is very youthful and not unlike going over jumps on your little BMX. Keep your youth, but when you grow up try real sailing upwind in a blow and savour the concept of power, unless of course your little flivver just sank.

 

Gentelman do not go to weather.........

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farr11s seems to be the best bang for the buck atm

does anyone have eny experiance with that design`?

 

The one i've sailed has over 400K in to it, so not sure where best bang for the buck comes in. The companionway and fore hatch are not weatherproof and the design brief is as a coastal day sailor. No deck house, Wet wet wet in chop and although very efficient hull design, it is an underachiever.

 

I would love to spend hours downhill in smooth water doing a steady 20kts, but that doesn't happen often. Another huge drawback is the outsized main which would need additional reef points added. The Current 3DL with one reef came in just south of 30K USD.

 

It is a very high quality build but no Cat 3 contender. it's a neat toy for well heeled PHRF beer can racers and nothing more.

 

The Columbia 32 Carbon a few slips over would be a way better choice, the running rigging seems a bit tender for real offshore work, and the main sheet, back stay, traveler arrangement would need proper redesign and hardier kit, but all that could be accomplished in a weekend.

 

Slip some proper 3di sails on and you have a real contender under half the price of the 11s

Cheers.

If you paid anywhere near $30kUS for a 3dlmain for an 11s, you got ripped off. By about $15k. That could explain why you have $400k into a $200k boat. That you would be lucky to sell for $100k.

 

The main is a 3DL 800 and delivered through the Toronto Loft. It is 120% class and sports a near 3m flat top, Guess the adage If you have to ask...........

 

The keel control servo valve on this one is lifted from an A380 rudder assy. it supports advanced accel decel capabilities to reduce shock to the rig and utilizing some very sophisticated proprietary software can maintain a preset heel angle using a dynamic mode and flying the keel. ( no not for racing it is a development concept)

 

Very cool platform, makes a great surrogate for development concepts like the ones mentioned above.

 

If you find one for 100K in the western hemisphere send me a link. There are only 6 examples sailing and only one for sale Tazo in UAE for 175K

 

 

Not my program, great bunch of folks and a super cool owner. I just trim main there on occasion.

 

cheers

 

So a list price of 175BU's - which probably means it will sell for 100-125BU's

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Interesting how this thread is all about reaching and running with flivvers. I guess you guys never go upwind, except in your Cigarette boats. Sailing to me was never solely a speed issue, rather it was a matter of power. It was also all about going upwind. There is nothing as satisfying as powering upwind and shouldering the seas aside with a powerful monohull. It is proper sailing. This simple planing speed mentality is very youthful and not unlike going over jumps on your little BMX. Keep your youth, but when you grow up try real sailing upwind in a blow and savour the concept of power, unless of course your little flivver just sank.

 

Gentelman do not go to weather.........

 

Truth!

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So a list price of 175BU's - which probably means it will sell for 100-125BU's

 

down to 135k$ asking now

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farr11s seems to be the best bang for the buck atm

does anyone have eny experiance with that design`?

I've sailed on this one: http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2009/Farr-11s-2519032/

 

Very fast. The mechanics of getting the boat around the course aren't as complicated as one might think. They had some problems with the on board systems (hydraulics) in the early days but they have worked out the kinks.

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farr11s seems to be the best bang for the buck atm

does anyone have eny experiance with that design`?

 

The one i've sailed has over 400K in to it, so not sure where best bang for the buck comes in. The companionway and fore hatch are not weatherproof and the design brief is as a coastal day sailor. No deck house, Wet wet wet in chop and although very efficient hull design, it is an underachiever.

 

I would love to spend hours downhill in smooth water doing a steady 20kts, but that doesn't happen often. Another huge drawback is the outsized main which would need additional reef points added. The Current 3DL with one reef came in just south of 30K USD.

 

It is a very high quality build but no Cat 3 contender. it's a neat toy for well heeled PHRF beer can racers and nothing more.

 

The Columbia 32 Carbon a few slips over would be a way better choice, the running rigging seems a bit tender for real offshore work, and the main sheet, back stay, traveler arrangement would need proper redesign and hardier kit, but all that could be accomplished in a weekend.

 

Slip some proper 3di sails on and you have a real contender under half the price of the 11s

Cheers.

If you paid anywhere near $30kUS for a 3dlmain for an 11s, you got ripped off. By about $15k. That could explain why you have $400k into a $200k boat. That you would be lucky to sell for $100k.

 

The main is a 3DL 800 and delivered through the Toronto Loft. It is 120% class and sports a near 3m flat top, Guess the adage If you have to ask...........

 

The keel control servo valve on this one is lifted from an A380 rudder assy. it supports advanced accel decel capabilities to reduce shock to the rig and utilizing some very sophisticated proprietary software can maintain a preset heel angle using a dynamic mode and flying the keel. ( no not for racing it is a development concept)

 

Very cool platform, makes a great surrogate for development concepts like the ones mentioned above.

 

If you find one for 100K in the western hemisphere send me a link. There are only 6 examples sailing and only one for sale Tazo in UAE for 175K

 

 

Not my program, great bunch of folks and a super cool owner. I just trim main there on occasion.

 

cheers

 

Wow that's one expensive main, more than a TP52 main of similar specs....

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27K less 15% PST/GST sales tax is 23K yeah that's an expensive main, I doubt the owner asked the price. A local broker spoke to the loft and mentioned it to me. My Point was the 11S does not supply bang for the buck compared to other offerings.

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M32 or Macca38

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farr11s seems to be the best bang for the buck atm

does anyone have eny experiance with that design`?

 

The one i've sailed has over 400K in to it, so not sure where best bang for the buck comes in. The companionway and fore hatch are not weatherproof and the design brief is as a coastal day sailor. No deck house, Wet wet wet in chop and although very efficient hull design, it is an underachiever.

 

I would love to spend hours downhill in smooth water doing a steady 20kts, but that doesn't happen often. Another huge drawback is the outsized main which would need additional reef points added. The Current 3DL with one reef came in just south of 30K USD.

 

It is a very high quality build but no Cat 3 contender. it's a neat toy for well heeled PHRF beer can racers and nothing more.

 

The Columbia 32 Carbon a few slips over would be a way better choice, the running rigging seems a bit tender for real offshore work, and the main sheet, back stay, traveler arrangement would need proper redesign and hardier kit, but all that could be accomplished in a weekend.

 

Slip some proper 3di sails on and you have a real contender under half the price of the 11s

Cheers.

If you paid anywhere near $30kUS for a 3dlmain for an 11s, you got ripped off. By about $15k. That could explain why you have $400k into a $200k boat. That you would be lucky to sell for $100k.

 

The main is a 3DL 800 and delivered through the Toronto Loft. It is 120% class and sports a near 3m flat top, Guess the adage If you have to ask...........

 

The keel control servo valve on this one is lifted from an A380 rudder assy. it supports advanced accel decel capabilities to reduce shock to the rig and utilizing some very sophisticated proprietary software can maintain a preset heel angle using a dynamic mode and flying the keel. ( no not for racing it is a development concept)

 

Very cool platform, makes a great surrogate for development concepts like the ones mentioned above.

 

If you find one for 100K in the western hemisphere send me a link. There are only 6 examples sailing and only one for sale Tazo in UAE for 175K

 

 

Not my program, great bunch of folks and a super cool owner. I just trim main there on occasion.

 

cheers

I don't have to ask, I sold sails for nearly 20 years and now I purchase about 25 sails a year for various boats from various sailmakers. Recently bought a 3dl 800 carbon main with three reefs for a 50 footer for $23k and change. You (or your owner) paid too much.

And a race boat such as the 11s is only worth what somebody will pay for it. $175k is an asking price, for a boat in the UAE. A much different market than in North America. I still feel the 11s will only sell for about 100k, that is if you can find a buyer.

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farr11s seems to be the best bang for the buck atm

does anyone have eny experiance with that design`?

 

I recently purchased a 11.6, and am in the process of bringing her back to all her glory. She is very fast, points well and is a lot of fun all around.

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Interesting how this thread is all about reaching and running with flivvers. I guess you guys never go upwind, except in your Cigarette boats. Sailing to me was never solely a speed issue, rather it was a matter of power. It was also all about going upwind. There is nothing as satisfying as powering upwind and shouldering the seas aside with a powerful monohull. It is proper sailing. This simple planing speed mentality is very youthful and not unlike going over jumps on your little BMX. Keep your youth, but when you grow up try real sailing upwind in a blow and savour the concept of power, unless of course your little flivver just sank.

 

Have spent the last few years sailing on a 38 ft cat and I LOVE going to windward.Nothing under 50ft will come close.Spent 2 days and a night beating into 25 that built to 40.Its not so much shouldering them aside as skipping over the top.The feeling of power is addictive.

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I've been lucky enough to sail with Auscat on the yacht he's talking about. Bloody hell it is a buzz, and I think in one race Auscat didn't blink once while screaming across the passage. Fuck I hated the call for trav on, no were near fit enough.

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You'd have to consider the J111 - Very nice boat on the water IMO

The question is best bang for the buck: the unproven 111 is no faster than a proven 1D35 at 4 times the cost.

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You'd have to consider the J111 - Very nice boat on the water IMO

The question is best bang for the buck: the unproven 111 is no faster than a proven 1D35 at 4 times the cost.

 

Sailed against a couple of j111's this season in Newport and was surprised at how sluggish they looked. In 15-20 knts and 4-6' seas they were barely hitting 13 knts in surfs...Maybe I was just expecting more out of it, but I'd spend the 350k on a hot new Elliott 35SS or something that actually fits the "fastest 35' boat" bill.

 

Not quite 35', but Karma Police is for sale... http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatMergedDetails.jsp?boat_id=2395633&checked_boats=2395633&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=58329&url=&imc=pg-fs

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You'd have to consider the J111 - Very nice boat on the water IMO

The question is best bang for the buck: the unproven 111 is no faster than a proven 1D35 at 4 times the cost.

 

Sailed against a couple of j111's this season in Newport and was surprised at how sluggish they looked. In 15-20 knts and 4-6' seas they were barely hitting 13 knts in surfs...Maybe I was just expecting more out of it, but I'd spend the 350k on a hot new Elliott 35SS or something that actually fits the "fastest 35' boat" bill.

 

Not quite 35', but Karma Police is for sale... http://www.yachtworl...&url=&imc=pg-fs

 

Karma Police was sold and is now in Detroit

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Personally..my vote is for the BT 31!! It just beat a SC 50 Tall Rig boat for boat in a 150 mile coastal race.

 

 

post-17229-0-09564300-1353351339_thumb.jpg

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What's a bt31? Google says its called "peerless" is that the same thing as the turbo'd melges 32?

 

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None of the boats mentioned so far would come close to the Elliott 35ss its a full carbon boat with a canting keel not some glass prodction boat!....it doesn't just go fast down wind its also very fast up wind.

 

If you are looking for a cool boat this is for sale

http://au.yachtworld...099/New-Zealand

 

The Farr 11s comes close, doesn't it?

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None of the boats mentioned so far would come close to the Elliott 35ss its a full carbon boat with a canting keel not some glass prodction boat!....it doesn't just go fast down wind its also very fast up wind.

 

If you are looking for a cool boat this is for sale

http://au.yachtworld...099/New-Zealand

 

The Farr 11s comes close, doesn't it?

 

I would seriously doubt that.

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None of the boats mentioned so far would come close to the Elliott 35ss its a full carbon boat with a canting keel not some glass prodction boat!....it doesn't just go fast down wind its also very fast up wind.

 

If you are looking for a cool boat this is for sale

http://au.yachtworld...099/New-Zealand

 

The Farr 11s comes close, doesn't it?

 

I would seriously doubt that.

 

really? I understand that they have different hullshapes but the farr is atleast 1000 kg lighter. The farr must be faster on a reach/downwind due to hullshape/weight.

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None of the boats mentioned so far would come close to the Elliott 35ss its a full carbon boat with a canting keel not some glass prodction boat!....it doesn't just go fast down wind its also very fast up wind.

 

If you are looking for a cool boat this is for sale

http://au.yachtworld...099/New-Zealand

 

The Farr 11s comes close, doesn't it?

 

I would seriously doubt that.

 

really? I understand that they have different hullshapes but the farr is atleast 1000 kg lighter. The farr must be faster on a reach/downwind due to hullshape/weight.

 

Very sure the 11s would give the Elliot 35 more than a run for its money. Especially in a breeze!

 

The Elliot from my understanding is no where as exotic in construction as the original 11s . If published stability is correct 11s is higher. Nevertheless the Elliot looks amazing, funny enough a lighter version of the juan k 38 launched a few years ago...

Tazo is heading into the shop for some mods to bring it into line around modern thinking, bigger j and mast back, less sail, but more effective utilisation of sail...

 

Mkf

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None of the boats mentioned so far would come close to the Elliott 35ss its a full carbon boat with a canting keel not some glass prodction boat!....it doesn't just go fast down wind its also very fast up wind.

 

If you are looking for a cool boat this is for sale

http://au.yachtworld...099/New-Zealand

 

The Farr 11s comes close, doesn't it?

 

I would seriously doubt that.

 

really? I understand that they have different hullshapes but the farr is atleast 1000 kg lighter. The farr must be faster on a reach/downwind due to hullshape/weight.

 

Very sure the 11s would give the Elliot 35 more than a run for its money. Especially in a breeze!

 

The Elliot from my understanding is no where as exotic in construction as the original 11s . If published stability is correct 11s is higher. Nevertheless the Elliot looks amazing, funny enough a lighter version of the juan k 38 launched a few years ago...

Tazo is heading into the shop for some mods to bring it into line around modern thinking, bigger j and mast back, less sail, but more effective utilisation of sail...

 

Mkf

 

Sticking with the transom hung rudders?

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Yes sticking with the transom hung rudders. After halving their size and making them fixed foils they actually work rather well. Lets be honest twin rudders don't have the same feel as single blades, but once the boat is moving above five knots and you have some heel on, >10% seem very posive...have had tazo out in some decent wind since we did this and control was never an issue...ability is a whole other thing!

 

Tazo is currently Cat3, has everything for Cat2. Will look to ensure she is Cat1 able post mods so we can do races like the Hong Kong to Vietnam, and other similar events. Just working through how to have a 24 volt generator on board...

 

We do have a problem with weight, boat now weighs less than design, two core reasons saved 60 kg on batteries and mast package came in over 40 kg lighter when we moved from formula to high mod Southern. Rudders in their current set up weigh 12 kg less and if I am correct adding C4 rigging should save another 6 kg. gives us roughly 120 kg to play around with for deck and mast step/chain plate modifications...hopefully done by end of Feb...

 

Regards

 

Mkf

 

 

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Forgot to ask does the Eliott have an IRC number, if so would love to see a certificate.

 

Will post tazo's series of certificates if anyone is interested...

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Will do. Back I windows world next week.

 

Tazo can not sail to current irc of 1.33 down from 1.35. But the odd time could sail to the trial number of 1.285. Most interesting is seeing initial jump was all through hull factor, later reduction was due to reduction of sail area and how static heel angle is measured with canards up or down...

 

Boat has not done enough passage races in varying conditions to determine if she could achieve better results on passage races...

 

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What about the of the emerging classe 950s? Around the cans mightn't be as fast, but as things open up they'd have to have some clout?

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emerging? I thought it was a failed experiment from the early 2000s. I do however agree that the open 30 looks like a blast ( assuming that they are the same)

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All boats have their conditions and canting keelers can't be touched 2 sail reaching, so the Farr 11 and Elliott would own that.

 

It's immodest but I think the original RP 31 The Cone of Silence would give them a run for their money downwind over long distances. It was also tough and therefore able to be pushed hard (and crash super hard!).

 

It was certainly quite a bit quicker than the Farr 36 (ie Farr 11 non canter) in a downwind Sydney to Coffs.

 

The new Elliott looks great and is unlikely to come up against The Cone - so we'll never know !!

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