bljones

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I don't see any Schumacher designs here. Did I miss something? Carl did some nice reverese sheer boats. They do not belong on this thread.

 

The post I quoted, TrickyPig's #2353 on page 24, included a picture of the Express 27 Das Boot (Detroit fleet I believe).

 

Granted, the list was marked as being for consideration, so it's not entirely clear whether the TrickyPig was including both examples he likes and examples he doesn't like. Anyway, that boat looked out of place in the company of the other recent reverse sheer examples.

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Yeah, I think you are right. Tricky liked that one. He has a good eye. He owns one of my custom boats so he must have a good eye.

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Weyalan:

I couldn't afford a haul out let alone the bottom paint for a 70'er. Imagine what new jib sheets cost.

Dashew is an idiot. I have talked to him at length. He knows nothing about yacht design.. He once told me that 6 degrees of of weather helm was good.

Somebody pointed out this series of posts, so being a boring Tuesday, and there being no football or basketball yet we thought we'd take a pass as this this yacht design knowledge thing, and the stupid six degrees of weather helm comment.

 

Say you have a shallow draft cruising yacht - pick your number - there is rarely sufficient span for the keel between the bottom of the canoe body and the draft limit. Since some folks who have experience offshore might want a big rudder for control in heavy going, we have a relatively large foil hanging on the back end to almost the same draft limit, but with less canoe body limiting span. Then perhaps someone might get the bright idea that the aspect ratio of the rudder is a hell of a lot higher than that of the keel, and as we all know induced drag is a function of aspect ratio squared. So maybe this rudder might help out that poor low aspect keel. The keel lives in fixed misery in terms of angle of attack, so the boat has to slip slideways to create lift. But wait, the rudder is a maneuverable foil, and can adjust its angle of attack.

 

What if we set the rig up to put load on the rudder? If you are smart enough or lucky enough to get this right, the rudder wil then pick up a not insignificant proportion of the total lift required to offset the rig. When that happens the keel doesn't have to work so hard, and leeway requirements for it to generate lift are reduced.

 

There were multihulls loading their rudders this way in the 1970s. The optimum AOA (angle of attack)? Four to six degrees (when coupled with some leeway). Take a look at any of the modern fixed feel deep draft racing yachts. Notice those tiny high aspect ratio keels, and relatively huge rudders. Do you suppose these boats are dragging that rudder wetted surface around the race course without making it pay its way helping the keel out?

 

There is another factor at work here which may account for the comments from Mr Perry. It could be his experience base, both design wise and in crossing oceans.

 

Even the unwashed amongst the Anarchists realize when the rudder loses its end plate from a combination of heel and generous beam (being kind now), the aspect ratio is cut in half, drag goes nuts, lift goes to hell, and bad things happen in a breeze. So it takes a moderate beam hull that sails upright, to make this loaded rudder thing work.

 

A loaded rudder also needs a hull that does not develop significant weather helm from the center of buoyancy moving aft with heel, in other words, it needs balanced lines with heel. I.e. fat boats withh big butts need not apply.

 

Since we are on this forum there is one other comment by the esteemed Mr. Perry to which this writer would like to reply. Headsail size does not have to be enormous. In fact, the more experience offshore one has, the smaller will be the upwind headsails and the larger the aft boomed sails. The main and or mizzen last longer t han the jib, and have a much better planform when sheets are eased.

 

As a coincidence, the idiot referred to in prior post, designs cruising yachts with small working jibs and large mains. Stay with us, there is a point coming. Small jibs, in particular if associated with fractional rigs, will have much lower jib sheet loads. These loads are further helped by a moderate beam, more efficient hull form, which means less sail area required to drive it, which means we can give up a touch of stability. And that huge jib sheet on the Dashew 70 footer nobody can afford nor even lift? Might turn out to be lighter, and shorter, than that of one of Mr. Perry's fifty footers.

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Popcorn?

 

Perhaps you could also explain how it makes sense to build a 60 foot powerboat designed to cross oceans with only one engine.

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Even the unwashed amongst the Anarchists realize when the rudder loses its end plate from a combination of heel and generous beam (being kind now), the aspect ratio is cut in half, drag goes nuts, lift goes to hell, and bad things happen in a breeze. So it takes a moderate beam hull that sails upright, to make this loaded rudder thing work.

 

Or... (sound of lightbulb going on) ...two rudders!

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Even the unwashed amongst the Anarchists realize when the rudder loses its end plate from a combination of heel and generous beam (being kind now), the aspect ratio is cut in half, drag goes nuts, lift goes to hell, and bad things happen in a breeze. So it takes a moderate beam hull that sails upright, to make this loaded rudder thing work.

 

Or... (sound of lightbulb going on) ...two rudders!

 

Please explain about the effect of generous beam.

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Beo,

So, with this "loaded rudder" concept what foil series are you using to provide lift at 6-8 degrees AoA, and what drag penalty are you incurring?

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I don't see any Schumacher designs here. Did I miss something? Carl did some nice reverese sheer boats. They do not belong on this thread.

 

The post I quoted, TrickyPig's #2353 on page 24, included a picture of the Express 27 Das Boot (Detroit fleet I believe).

 

Granted, the list was marked as being for consideration, so it's not entirely clear whether the TrickyPig was including both examples he likes and examples he doesn't like. Anyway, that boat looked out of place in the company of the other recent reverse sheer examples.

Yes I was interested in opinions on reverse sheer since the normal response from most sailors is "reverse sheer is ugly".

 

IMO reverse sheer needs to be subtle if it is to work. When it is pronounced the sheerline forward dips down to the bow and looks wrong to my eye.

 

The photos in question have boats that I admire plus two I don't.

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Each to his own, I say.

 

I love skinny boats. They sail fast, track well and look good. They also have less room, higher berthing/haulout costs and tend to heel more.

 

I'm Interested to read both Beowulf and Jose Carumba's take on AOA and foil sections.

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Thanks Steve but I'm not going to play with you.

 

Careful who you call an idiot on the internet!

 

Fortunately some of us are used to it... in real life too...

 

FB- Doug

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Thanks Steve but I'm not going to play with you.

 

Careful who you call an idiot on the internet!

 

 

Why? That's just the thing. It's *easy*. It's *simple*. Almost any way you look at it, it's *safe*.

 

Yes, the internet is the pinnacle of free speech, which is mostly a very good thing. You are free to say whatever comes to mind.

 

I'd say, "Careful who you call an idiot face to face."

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Let's get back to ugly boats, shall we?

 

541757_507682805969338_1392648022_n.jpg

 

Doesn't count if it's done with humour. To be a true uglyboat, the owner has to be SERIOUS about it.

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OK. This one's serious. I present it with apologies to those who love pointy sterns, flush decks, tasteful classic yachts, etc. There's probably a lot to admire, but that's ugly.

 

1173655_590960504278980_626423831_n.jpg

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OK. This one's serious. I present it with apologies to those who love pointy sterns, flush decks, tasteful classic yachts, etc. There's probably a lot to admire, but that's ugly.

 

1173655_590960504278980_626423831_n.jpg

 

I've seen this boat and I know where that picture is taken. It's a character all right. I did like going aboard. The owner was really nice.

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OK. This one's serious. I present it with apologies to those who love pointy sterns, flush decks, tasteful classic yachts, etc. There's probably a lot to admire, but that's ugly.

 

1173655_590960504278980_626423831_n.jpg

 

I have looked at it for a minute or two and am still not sure which end is the front?

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OK. This one's serious. I present it with apologies to those who love pointy sterns, flush decks, tasteful classic yachts, etc. There's probably a lot to admire, but that's ugly.

 

1173655_590960504278980_626423831_n.jpg

 

 

That boat is like an all-you-can-eat buffet stocked with only your favourite foods.... but you only have a salad plate. You pile it all on, but...

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I like it. You have to take it in it's temporal context. It's an easy to drive hull from a day when engines were small and you wanted hull spedd with minimal HP.

I'd need to see a good profile shot of it before I condemned it. For now I like it.

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Thanks Steve but I'm not going to play with you.

 

Careful who you call an idiot on the internet!

 

 

Why? That's just the thing. It's *easy*. It's *simple*. Almost any way you look at it, it's *safe*.

 

Yes, the internet is the pinnacle of free speech, which is mostly a very good thing. You are free to say whatever comes to mind.

 

I'd say, "Careful who you call an idiot face to face."

 

Well yeah, but that wouldn't be joking

 

you fuckin idiot

 

FB- Doug

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OK. This one's serious. I present it with apologies to those who love pointy sterns, flush decks, tasteful classic yachts, etc. There's probably a lot to admire, but that's ugly.

 

1173655_590960504278980_626423831_n.jpg

 

I really wanted to see another pic from another angle, so I used Google Images and came up with

 

http://classicyacht.org/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=387

 

For those who don't want to follow a link here's instant gratification

 

normal_glorybe~0.jpg

 

I would say, not ugly at all

 

FB- Doug

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I like it, although I think I would like it better with either a canvass top on the back, or maybe no top.

 

But that's just me being picky.

 

I think it might be better on the coolboats thread.

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It should be on Coolboats, not here.

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Here's a link to more photos.

One or more out of the water:

http://www.glorybehistory.com/Final_History_Timeline.htm

we think she is beautiful and her owner friendly and approachable.

 

I'm a photographer, not the best but, I know you can make anyone look ugly with a photo, if you try.

 

It's not hard to make this boat look beautiful.

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OK. This one's serious. I present it with apologies to those who love pointy sterns, flush decks, tasteful classic yachts, etc. There's probably a lot to admire, but that's ugly.

 

1173655_590960504278980_626423831_n.jpg

 

I really wanted to see another pic from another angle, so I used Google Images and came up with

 

http://classicyacht.org/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=387

 

For those who don't want to follow a link here's instant gratification

 

normal_glorybe~0.jpg

 

I would say, not ugly at all

 

FB- Doug

 

From that angle, it looks like a really cool tugboat with wood trim rammed a really ugly sailboat hard enough to impale itself halfway up the hull.

 

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If you extended that boat enough to provide adequate Harlisaki parking on the back porch, it could carry another mast back there and some more sails or something.

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Kind of reminds me of these ugly as f*ck cats:

picprout37101a.jpg

The toilet block in the background has better lines.

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From the CamperBoat files, I give you ...

 

camperboat.jpg

 

We saw one of these on our vacation this summer. It was called "Picton Turtle". Gotta love an owner with a sense of humour.

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attachicon.gif001.JPG

 

Saw this on the docks today.Its kinda,sorta well yah?attachicon.gif001.JPG

Looks like a bernd kohler design- maybe a modified Eco?

 

The bows are an interesting design. Very Potemkin.

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Here's a link to more photos.

One or more out of the water:

http://www.glorybehistory.com/Final_History_Timeline.htm

we think she is beautiful and her owner friendly and approachable.

 

I'm a photographer, not the best but, I know you can make anyone look ugly with a photo, if you try.

 

It's not hard to make this boat look beautiful.

Interesting historical pics, BlackJ.

 

The early addition of that wheelhouse did not improve her looks. Quite the opposite, IMO.

 

As far as looks go, she's seen better days.

 

But then again, haven't we all?

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To add to the topic of reverse sheer This boat's appeared on on the River Orwell this year.

 

IMG_0850.jpg

 

IMG_0848.jpg

 

All cockpit with a sentry box coachroof.

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To add to the topic of reverse sheer This boat's appeared on on the River Orwell this year.

 

IMG_0850.jpg

 

IMG_0848.jpg

 

All cockpit with a sentry box coachroof.

 

 

Hmm.. I like that one, reminds of the "Myth" boats... maybe an Illingworth design? Can you tell if it's wood or glass?

 

FB- Doug

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That's really not a bad bridge addition to that sailboat, but they should have taken the masts off.

 

I'm going to have to go apologize to the builder for posting this, but it really has to go in this thread. I think it needs a Batboat paint job.

 

scottsbatboat.jpg

 

Some more work, new portlights, new mast step, and my wife says it now looks like Santa.

 

1233972_10153209599935089_1930046689_n.j

 

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Seems Gulivain has quite a history.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulvain

 

what the fuck's birmabright?

 

Fuck!! I asked "wood or glass" and she's neither!! Oh well. Still not exactly an ugly boat IMHO

 

BTW I was hoping for pics on "her"web site but the "Gulvain Web Site" linked to from wikipedia appears to be some new-age-ish mutterings in Latin.

 

FB- Doug

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I like Gulvain...Laurent Giles certainly had his own style.

 

I snapped this boat at St Tropez in 2007. I was sitting on the end of the breakwater watching S&S s, Fifes etc go past then this. It stood out from the crowd for sure..

post-14496-0-39840000-1378140732_thumb.jpg

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what the fuck's birmabright?

 

It is (or was) an aluminium alloy - proprietary IIRC.

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what the fuck's birmabright?

It is (or was) an aluminium alloy - proprietary IIRC.

It was also used to make the body panels of Land Rovers,

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Some more work, new portlights, new mast step, and my wife says it now looks like Santa.

 

1233972_10153209599935089_1930046689_n.j

 

 

 

Santa or a really sad ,looking puppy

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Some more work, new portlights, new mast step, and my wife says it now looks like Santa.

 

1233972_10153209599935089_1930046689_n.j

 

 

 

Santa or a really sad ,looking puppy

 

 

I think it needs some of these:

cute-curly-universal-3d-car-headlight-ey

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Some more work, new portlights, new mast step, and my wife says it now looks like Santa.

 

1233972_10153209599935089_1930046689_n.j

 

 

 

Santa or a really sad ,looking puppy

 

 

I think it needs some of these:

cute-curly-universal-3d-car-headlight-ey

Hilarious!

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what the fuck's birmabright?

It is (or was) an aluminium alloy - proprietary IIRC.

It was also used to make the body panels of Land Rovers,

 

I clicked the link in the Wiki article on Gulvain linked above: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulvain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmabright

 

"Birmabright is a trade name of the former Birmetals Co. (Birmabright works in Clapgate Lane, Quinton, Birmingham, UK) for various types of lightweight sheet metal in an alloy of aluminium and magnesium. The constituents are 7% magnesium, sometimes 1% manganese, and the remainder aluminium.[1] The BB2 is one example, of which equivalent specifications are British standard NS4, American 5251 and ISO designation AlMg2.

Gas welding of Birmabright is easier than that of pure aluminium and may be carried out using scraps of the same material as a filler rod.

Birmabright is best known as the material used in the body of the Land Rover and other classic British vehicles. The doors, boot lid and bonnet of most Rover P4 models were also Birmabright, however towards the end of production this was changed to steel to reduce costs. An early use in the 1930s was for the bodywork of the land speed record car, Thunderbolt. Also used for the bodywork of Bluebird K7 used for the Coniston speed record attempt by the late Donald Campbell"

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That's really not a bad bridge addition to that sailboat, but they should have taken the masts off.

 

I'm going to have to go apologize to the builder for posting this, but it really has to go in this thread. I think it needs a Batboat paint job.

 

Some more work, new portlights, new mast step, and my wife says it now looks like Santa.

 

1233972_10153209599935089_1930046689_n.j

 

Isn't this one of the robots from Mystery Science Theater 3000?

 

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Not unatttractive outside, but ...

 

http://sailingtexas.com/201301/shansen30101.html

 

That cabin reminds me of a barn. or a coop. or a garden shed. pichansen30101g.jpg

 

 

That's a nice little motorboat. I see it is being advertised as a motorsailor and there is a tabernacle on top, but someone has had the good taste to remove the mast. Now they should get rid of the toe-stubber.

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The whole boat is short, fat, and ugly, but there's a special place in hell for whoever designed that stern.

 


post-703-0-39073000-1380040656_thumb.jpg

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That's really not a bad bridge addition to that sailboat, but they should have taken the masts off.

 

I'm going to have to go apologize to the builder for posting this, but it really has to go in this thread. I think it needs a Batboat paint job.

 

Some more work, new portlights, new mast step, and my wife says it now looks like Santa.

 

1233972_10153209599935089_1930046689_n.j

 

Isn't this one of the robots from Mystery Science Theater 3000?

 

LOL.

 

I just got back from lunch with the builder of this lovely. I'll have to mention it to him.

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Not unatttractive outside, but ...

 

http://sailingtexas.com/201301/shansen30101.html

 

That cabin reminds me of a barn. or a coop. or a garden shed. pichansen30101g.jpg

 

 

That's a nice little motorboat. I see it is being advertised as a motorsailor and there is a tabernacle on top, but someone has had the good taste to remove the mast. Now they should get rid of the toe-stubber.

Some white paint and that interior would look just fine.

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Never fails. Just when I think we might actually be out of ugly boats to admire, someone smacks it out of the park.

 

Great job, MCSailor!

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97417lm_27.jpeg

 

When I stumble across something like this I know that's enough internets for one day...

For the love of all things nautical, what the hell is that?

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I'm not sure it's ugly, but sure it's not pretty. Something to admire? It somehow landed on the Woodenboat porn feed.

 

954886_344811088987637_968619121_n.jpg

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I'm not sure it's ugly, but sure it's not pretty. Something to admire? It somehow landed on the Woodenboat porn feed.

 

954886_344811088987637_968619121_n.jpg

It's just the old saw: "Money can buy anything except taste"

 

WTF?

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I'm not sure it's ugly, but sure it's not pretty. Something to admire? It somehow landed on the Woodenboat porn feed.

 

954886_344811088987637_968619121_n.jpg

Unconventional and beautiful.

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I'm not sure it's ugly, but sure it's not pretty. Something to admire? It somehow landed on the Woodenboat porn feed.

 

954886_344811088987637_968619121_n.jpg

Unconventional and beautiful.

Yeah. Like an East German office block.

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I'm not sure it's ugly, but sure it's not pretty. Something to admire? It somehow landed on the Woodenboat porn feed.

 

954886_344811088987637_968619121_n.jpg

Unconventional and beautiful.

Yeah. Like an East German office block.

..or a Faberge egg with chines.

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I'm not sure it's ugly, but sure it's not pretty. Something to admire? It somehow landed on the Woodenboat porn feed.

 

954886_344811088987637_968619121_n.jpg

Unconventional and beautiful.

Yeah. Like an East German office block.

..or a Faberge egg with chines.

I just want to know WTF it IS. Is it a piece of performance art, some sort of ultra sun cover or is that the actual deck? The bow looks like it's some kind of ferry under that "topside".

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This doesn't actually exist, except as a design concept as far as I can tell (I was trying to find a better photo).

 

A story here: http://www.news.com.au/travel/holiday-ideas/the-125m-voronoi-is-not-your-average-mega-yacht/story-e6frfqf9-1226067236396

 

or do a search (or better yet an image search) on "Voronoi mega yacht" and you'll get lots of results.

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It's sort of reminiscent of a moorish screen window. Like there might be a harem lounging around inside there. :)

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Considering the pimp-like lifestyles of many of the owners of those megayachts, a whorehouse might be more likely.

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Did anyone hear of the "mega-yacht" Yogi, which just fell over and sank in the Aegean last year. Google it for some hideous video of just how unseaworthy this floating Caesar's Palaces - or at least one of them - are.

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What do I win for finding this thing?

 


post-95343-0-92722400-1380764077_thumb.jpg

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I guess you just look for the concentration of freshly blinded people near the water.

 

Damn that thing is a beast. To think that there are people who are willing to spend 6 figures to actually own one. Maybe you could take it to George Barris and get it chopped and sectioned.

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What do I win for finding this thing?

 

 

attachicon.gifUgly.jpg

 

The Pontiac Aztek of the waves.

That's being awfully harsh on the Aztec.

 

One of the best bits on Breaking Bad was giving Walt a wheezing, hubcap missing Aztec to drive before he broke bad. Perfectly suited his character.

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What do I win for finding this thing?

 

 

attachicon.gifUgly.jpg

A hot bowl of fish chowder at the stock market......

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OK. This one's serious. I present it with apologies to those who love pointy sterns, flush decks, tasteful classic yachts, etc. There's probably a lot to admire, but that's ugly.

 

1173655_590960504278980_626423831_n.jpg

 

 

That boat is like an all-you-can-eat buffet stocked with only your favourite foods.... but you only have a salad plate. You pile it all on, but...

 

The whole boat is short, fat, and ugly, but there's a special place in hell for whoever designed that stern.

 

 

attachicon.gifstern.jpg

Eye bleach seriously required!

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I like that boat a lot. I try to keep it in temporal context.

I preferred it when it had a dark hull. But I still admire it.

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"Water likes chines,they tell it what to do." - David Thomas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

post-54259-0-46093200-1380941475_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think this one's telling it to fuck off.

 

 

Rob

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Another couple of photos that might impress.

 

 

 

 

 

 

post-54259-0-04903100-1380942472_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

post-54259-0-53658800-1380942541_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

Boat is Argentinian, I don't think it's one of Germans proudest moments !

 

 

 

 

Rob

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