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Bill E Goat

Chinese Mac 26 knock off

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Surely there are better boats to steal

 

 

Yeah, the list of boats that sell 40 copies a month is indeed long and varied. I present it here for everyone's viewing pleasure:

 

...

 

um...

 

...

 

That's all of the ones I can think up. Anyone else?

 

Roger MacGregor is a genius for making a bad idea into one of the best selling boats of all time and he has made a lot of boaters happy with his invention, whether people here like it or not. :P

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24 MILES PER HOUR UNDER POWER WITH A 60 HP OUTBOARD

Shit!! My 23' Mako won't even go that fast with 225 horse Yammie, once the barnacles start up...

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bullfuckingshit. The Mac 26 is OUR boat. Built by MacGregor Boats for OUR entertainment. This fuckingbullshit copy is why the Chinese FUCKINGSUCK

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yanky doodledandys

I've had a word to the little buggers for ya & brokered a deal that should fix everything

 

don't say I never do anything for ya

 

post-3212-0-39483900-1354105500_thumb.jpg

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shanghai boat show ....

 

teams of about 5 go around the boats on display

 

3 or so young, pretty, women with cameras

 

A couple of older men stay back a bit and request various shots and closer ones on detail.

 

second shanghai boat show I went to there was a chinese " interpretation " of the corsair ( farrier ? ) 8M.

 

Third ........ I think you have the " picture "

 

.... also chinese builders advertising to build / supply with shots of many western boats

 

then there are all the strangely branded outboards that look " just like " the mainstream japanese and american brands

 

I wonder what will " show " next april ?

 

If I was a designer / builder I would be very careful how I display my wares ..........

 

funny thing is,

 

except for tractor / trailers on the roads,

 

It is not legal to tow any sort of trailer behind a car in china

 

P. S.

 

wait till the Mac Sum Thing 26 becomes embedded with the real thing in the second hand market .................

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THIS.

 

IS.

 

IT !!!!!1

 

 

 

I can finally afford to enter the Newport to Ensenada NASBOAT class!

 

I am so going to win this class next year!!!!!!!!1

Uh, I hear there are some islands in the way? How do I miss those?

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When the Chinese copy a Rolex its a piece of shit.

 

One has to wonder if this will be better, or worse, then the original.

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ahhh,,thank-you........I'm actually somewhat interested in a 7meter Carbonfibre version.....

 

....seems somehow appropriate that mr Alfred DONG is the go-to guy for these .... :rolleyes:

 

 

Type: Monohull

Hull Material: Carbon Fibre Condition: New

Length (m): 4 - 8m

Draft: 0.5 - 1.5m

Place of Origin: Shandong China (Mainland)

Brand Name: Dafman

Model Number: laser standard(laser

 

one)

name: Laser Standard Laser One Sailboat

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Excuse Me

 

Not IF, WHEN ..............

 

my genuine gold fake rolex is still going after more than two years

 

cost 20 yuan (USD$3-21) on the street in shanghai

 

Haven't worn it or taken off the sticky plastic film that holds it all together !

 

[ QUOTE ]

 

When the Chinese copy a Rolex its a piece of shit.

 

One has to wonder if this will be better, or worse, then the original.

 

 

[ UNQUOTE ]

 

P. S.

 

 

Posted Today, 11:09 AM

http://www.alibaba.c...t_Sailboat.html

 

..........holy ching wow!!!.....don't anyone tell them about lasers!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

 

Too Late !

 

............. and don't ask about the little Hunter Trailer Sailer

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bullfuckingshit. The Mac 26 is OUR boat. Built by MacGregor Boats for OUR entertainment. This fuckingbullshit copy is why the Chinese FUCKINGSUCK

 

OMG....pigs are flying, cats and dogs are shacking up and hells freezing over.

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ahhh,,thank-you........I'm actually somewhat interested in a 7meter Carbonfibre version.....

 

....seems somehow appropriate that mr Alfred DONG is the go-to guy for these .... :rolleyes:

 

 

Type: Monohull

Hull Material: Carbon Fibre Condition: New

Length (m): 4 - 8m

Draft: 0.5 - 1.5m

Place of Origin: Shandong China (Mainland)

Brand Name: Dafman

Model Number: laser standard(laser

 

one)

name: Laser Standard Laser One Sailboat

 

........hmm,,,certainly more responsive than most NA manufacturers,,,,fairly well informed,,,,not a bad price either :mellow: .....wonder what the spars,,workmanship are like??

 

''The price for our Laser is USD4200/PC EXW. Since our boat is not registered with ISAF, they can't be used for international racing.

We are unable to made the boats of carbon fiber for the time being.

 

Best regards

Alfred Dong

Qingdao OSIC International Co., Ltd ''

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I thought that the Mac 26 WAS a Chinese knockoff of a boat.

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Nobody wondered if this WAS the original?

 

-jim lee

 

You ought to know better than most here just how hard it is to design and build a boat that will sell 40 copies a month for many, many years, yet you still mock?

 

Found a buyer for Dart number 5 yet? Roger sold that many the first week of this month, you know. Just like every month. ;)

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Is Mr MacGregor responsible for redefining "sailboat", or should the charge be confusing an entire language?

If a Mac26 is a sailboat, this confusion is probably inevitable:)

 

http://www.alibaba.c...y_4_stroke.html

 

Its cultural imperialism of the worst type because now the Chinese will think a good sailing boat is a Mac 26 ... oh the horror, oh the humanity.

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Far East Boat Co.

2002-

www.fareastboats.com

 

Shanghai Far East FRP Boat Co., Ltd. is recognized as the biggest dinghy builder in China. The goal is to produce various high quality sailboats and boat fittings for our customers. “Even better than our faith is the honesty of our objective.”

In the same year, Far East was licensed by the International Sailing Federation (ISAF) to build the Optimist and now have become the biggest Optimist builder in the world with a yearly capacity of approximately 2000 Optimist hulls. More recently, Far East also became an ISAF licensed builder of the 420 and started the plan to diversify the product range to Kayak and other sailboats.

Far East is also the sole distributor of Laser in the mainland China and serves China’s national sailing team in their daily training and regatta performance.

 

Shanghai Far East FRP Boat Co., Ltd.

Room 209, Focus Business Center, No.2468 Gudai Rd, Minhang District, Shanghai, 201100, P.R.China

Tel: +86-21-6728 5977 6728 5978

Fax: +86-21-6728 5976

Email: fareast@fareastboats.com

 

BY THIS BUILDER:

(Dates indicate when a boat was first built by ANY Builder)

NAME/TYPE LOA First Built

English / Metric

OPTIMIST DINGHY (INT) 7.67' / 2.34m 1947

420 13.78' / 4.20m 1959

FAREAST 11 11.48' / 3.50m 2005

FAREAST 26 27.49' / 8.38m 2006

sailboatdata.com blog sailboatdata.com on facebook sailboatdata.com linkedin page Follow sailboatdata.com on Twitter

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Mocking? I was wondering if he's just been just buying 'em from Hison all along.

 

-jim lee

 

No, he has a factory capable of churning out 60 of them per month, but California air quality rules do not allow that many so he only makes 40 a month.

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The Chinese are the biggest intellectual property theives on the planet, followed quickly by Russia and Iran.

 

It's easy to avoid Russian and Persian products, it's not easy to avoid buying Chinese products, but I tell you that no matter how financially stretched I am, I avoid Chinese products any time that an alternative is available.

 

We (US, Canada, Europe & Anzus) are engaged in all-out, economic fucking warfare people. Thanks to the WTO and free trade agreements, we are not allowed to enact protective tarrifs, but we can choose what to buy. You don't have to buy 'Merican, (but it would be nice!) just buy anything but Chinese!

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I think you might find Hison are agents for the M 26 here in China - Alibaba is not just used for exports.

 

And as far as not buying Chinese product, perhaps you should get them to stop buying GM, BMW and VW cars while you are at it.

 

GM would have gone tits up a lot earlier than they would without Shanghai GM and China is VW's most important market -

 

Hey Ajax, good for the good old US of A that there is a WTO - eh?

 

It's called globalisation and started with the Dutch East India Company

 

jesus Christ man - some people want it all their all side of the dish

 

SS

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I think you might find Hison are agents for the M 26 here in China - Alibaba is not just used for exports.

 

And as far as not buying Chinese product, perhaps you should get them to stop buying GM, BMW and VW cars while you are at it.

 

GM would have gone tits up a lot earlier than they would without Shanghai GM and China is VW's most important market -

 

Hey Ajax, good for the good old US of A that there is a WTO - eh?

 

It's called globalisation and started with the Dutch East India Company

 

jesus Christ man - some people want it all their all side of the dish

 

SS

 

Using the name Hison as the brand name would be an odd choice for an authorized agent, but then, so would classifying it as a catamaran.

 

Bravo on the defense of free trade, though. Not that it should include stealing a successful design.

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I think you might find Hison are agents for the M 26 here in China - Alibaba is not just used for exports.

 

And as far as not buying Chinese product, perhaps you should get them to stop buying GM, BMW and VW cars while you are at it.

 

GM would have gone tits up a lot earlier than they would without Shanghai GM and China is VW's most important market -

 

Hey Ajax, good for the good old US of A that there is a WTO - eh?

 

It's called globalisation and started with the Dutch East India Company

 

jesus Christ man - some people want it all their all side of the dish

 

SS

 

I respectfully disagree, but I'll keep it out of SA.

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Its cultural imperialism of the worst type because now the Chinese will think a good sailing boat is a Mac 26 ... oh the horror, oh the humanity.

 

They'll probably sell like hotcakes in China.

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...quote Boomer.......

''They'll probably sell like hotcakes in China.''

 

 

 

....as said upthread.......watch for mass landings on AUS beaches soon :blink: :blink:

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Real Aussie sailors would laugh at those toys...

 

 

The Mac26 is the elevator music of Sailing Anarchy.

 

It's like hearing a Ray Coniff or Mantovani/1001 strings cover of Dylan or Stones in an elevator. It's just a bit weird.

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Can you imagine dreaming about sailing a Mac 26....to me that would be a horrific nightmare.

 

But obviously there are those who wouldn't see it as such.

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Sailors hanging out with sailors. I'd rather hang with this group than a bunch of snobs any day.

 

 

I won't stop you joining the Mac cult. You and HWSNBN can converse endlessly about why the Mac is such a sound blue water cruiser, won't that be fun?

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I'm with Tricky on this one. I'm in favor of any boat that introduces people to sailing. My fear with the Mac is that I don't think it performs well enough under sail to win over many people to sailing.

I've seen families happy cruisng their Macs in the San Juans. But I usually see them tied up to the dock. But maybe the way to look at it is like this: If 100 powerboaters buy Mac 26's and 10 of them decide they like sailing then we have ten more sailors and I suspect the next sailboat they buy will have better performance than the Mac.

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I'm with Tricky on this one. I'm in favor of any boat that introduces people to sailing. My fear with the Mac is that I don't think it performs well enough under sail to win over many people to sailing.

I've seen families happy cruisng their Macs in the San Juans. But I usually see them tied up to the dock. But maybe the way to look at it is like this: If 100 powerboaters buy Mac 26's and 10 of them decide they like sailing then we have ten more sailors and I suspect the next sailboat they buy will have better performance than the Mac.

 

I'm with you on that one Bob, but really, just about any sailboat is going to have better performance than a Mac. Unless the Mac is in the 4th mode, then all bets are off.

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If you sell 40 boats a month for a lot of years, some are going to wind up sitting. True of any boat, power or sail, performance or not.

 

Two Mac 26X's in my video above, plus a Hunter, all with owners out enjoying their boats. I like that, no matter what the snobs say.

 

One of those 26X's was owned by a guy who had just returned from the Everglades Challenge in his other boat. Like many Mac buyers I encountered as a broker and dealer, he knew what he had and knew which boat would make his wife happy on an overnight.

 

Roger MacGregor has made a lot of people happy by turning a bad idea into a marketable boat, so maybe it's not such a bad idea. I'm happy to hang out with ALL of the West Coast Trailer Sailor Squadron, including the MacGregor and Hunter owners. Don't really care to hang out with anyone who bashes any boat.

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but then, so would classifying it as a catamaran.

 

Not so fast Tom

 

The additional observation that the Mac26x dances like a butterfly when on the anchor supports the notion that the vessel is a form of trimaran.

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Nobody wondered if this WAS the original?

 

-jim lee

 

You ought to know better than most here just how hard it is to design and build a boat that will sell 40 copies a month for many, many years, yet you still mock?

 

Found a buyer for Dart number 5 yet? Roger sold that many the first week of this month, you know. Just like every month. ;)

 

Hmmm....

 

They don't cost much and are being sold to neophytes who don't know any better, and being sold by boat sharks, with zero thought of the safety of others.

 

I wonder how many Mac 26's capsize, or are dismasted, or something else catastrophic every year.

 

Also wonder how many deaths have been attributed to Mac 26 capsizes in just the past ten years.

 

I don't call that successful....I call that morally wrong!

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Nobody wondered if this WAS the original?

 

-jim lee

 

You ought to know better than most here just how hard it is to design and build a boat that will sell 40 copies a month for many, many years, yet you still mock?

 

Found a buyer for Dart number 5 yet? Roger sold that many the first week of this month, you know. Just like every month. ;)

 

Hmmm....

 

They don't cost much and are being sold to neophytes who don't know any better, and being sold by boat sharks, with zero thought of the safety of others.

 

I wonder how many Mac 26's capsize, or are dismasted, or something else catastrophic every year.

 

Also wonder how many deaths have been attributed to Mac 26 capsizes in just the past ten years.

 

I don't call that successful....I call that morally wrong!

 

Boomer, your imagination and the reality I experienced barely overlap.

 

I did sell them and have not met anyone who has capsized one, nor lost a loved one. Besides, a more telling stat would be deaths per unit sold, and a more valid comparison would be across all boats, sail and power, since that one is both.

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Without actual numbers, I'm missing how you can reach that conclusion.

 

Watching one get flipped on it's side and capsizing in the Hood Canal....thankfully we were close by and assisted in the rescue.

 

A couple years later another capsized locally and a young girl and mother drowned.

 

The one that capsized last year in San Diego resulting in a father and son drowning.

 

The one that capsized on Lake Champlain resulted in the drownings of the owners children.

 

Watch one dismasted on the Puget Sound with Hobot on board.

 

Not hard to speculate at all!

 

 

 

Boomer, your imagination and the reality I experienced barely overlap.

 

Tell that to the folks who have capsized them...unfortunately you won't be able to tell the folks who drowned.

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Boomer, your imagination and the reality I experienced barely overlap.

 

So all those folks you sold Macs to were experienced sailors? were they stepping up in size or down?

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Boomer, your imagination and the reality I experienced barely overlap.

 

So all those folks you sold Macs to were experienced sailors? were they stepping up in size or down?

 

No, nor were they all neophytes as you claimed. None that I sold have capsized to my knowledge. Acting like they can only be death traps for neophytes barely overlaps with my experience, as I said. The area of overlap: some neophytes bought them. None capsized or died.

 

If they were horrible death traps, I doubt 40 a month could sell for 20 years running. Idiots can tip them, just like any boat, but concluding from that that only neophytes buy them and all are doomed to die is foolish based on my experience. Have you been out in one?

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Most the neophytes who've bought them around here, usually take them out a couple times, then they sit tied to their finger pier...till they're sold.

 

I do occasionally see one motoring at high speed...boy they sure move out under power, with that big outboard. :wacko:

 

They do have a MacGregor Rendezvous in Poulsbo every summer and you'll see them coming roaring down Liberty Bay with those big outboards doing their thing. Oh...we get to see them sail when they have their regatta the next day, it's almost painful to watch, so I don't. Then the rendezvous ends and they all motor blissfully at high speed into the sunset.

 

Other then the rendezvous, once in a great while you might see one sailing on the sound, but that's pretty rare.

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Most the neophytes who've bought them around here, usually take them out a couple times, then they sit tied to their finger pier...till they're sold.

 

I do occasionally see one motoring at high speed...boy they sure move out under power, with that big outboard. :wacko:

 

They do have a MacGregor Rendezvous in Poulsbo every summer and you'll see them coming roaring down Liberty Bay with those big outboards doing their thing. Oh...we get to see them sail when they have their regatta the next day, it's almost painful to watch, so I don't. Then the rendezvous ends and they all motor blissfully at high speed into the sunset.

 

Other then the rendezvous, once in a great while you might see one sailing on the sound, but that's pretty rare.

 

I'll take that as a "no, I've never been out in one." I have.

 

Have you ever met a broker or dealer who has sold them? Because it sounds like you're speaking from ignorance and not experience on that subject too.

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I have always viewed the mast as being the "get home" motor on a Mac26.

 

and then when the mast fell down and they got a tow.... :wacko:

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I have.

 

Impressed were ya?

 

I'll take that as a "no, I have not met any of the people I called amoral sharks." Again, I have.

 

No, again your assumptions are divorced from reality. I'm not impressed with the boats, mostly because I think they are a bad idea. I like my powerboats to be good powerboats, and the Mac is a really lousy powerboat. It barely planes, pounds like crazy, rolls badly in crossing seas, and that darn mast is something that can screw up any powerboat. Also, it's a pretty poor sailboat, but not nearly as bad a sailboat as it is a powerboat. Still, it could be a better sailboat if it were not trying so hard to be a powerboat. The combination is a bad idea, at least to me. Many owners I have met disagree for their own various reasons. Good for them, I say.

 

However, several things about the boats did impress me. For one, MacGregor was the only manufacturer with a nearly unblemished record of delivering a complete, undamaged, intact, non-leaking boat to our dealership. I believe the one exception was a shipping incident. Several more reputable manufacturers delivered various problems to us on more than one occasion. They made it right, but that's not as good as not screwing up in the first place.

 

The other thing that impressed me was how they held up over time. I sold several that were over ten years old and despite the light construction and rigging, they were holding together about as well as other production boats at that age.

 

Last but not least, I was never once afraid that a Mac would roll on its side, possibly because I had the sense to ensure the ballast tank was full when not planing and to keep weight low. My opinion is that people who capsize boats are generally asking for it, and that includes MacGregor boats.

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Sounds like your assumptions are divorced from reality.

 

That's good.... :lol:

 

I know I'd never consider walking into a yacht or boat sales who sold Macs.

 

Also, you really don't want to hear how I really feel, about those who sell Macs.

 

You know, you'd probably make a great used car salesman...in fact, your probably a born salesman....ever think about going into sales full time?

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so Booms your not going to take an honest opion from somone who has accualy had a bit to do with these boat's?

 

You sound like the fella that says electric cars are bad because the concept doesn't suit ME, Never mind the fact that it works for lot's of other folk.

No one is making you buy one Boomer.

 

I still think that from all the boat's they could have stolen, This is the funniest!

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I still think that from all the boat's they could have stolen, This is the funniest!

 

Seems a sensible choice to me, if the goal is to make money and not to impress Sailing Anarchy boat snobs.

 

They could have splashed the Left Coast Dart, a much nicer sailboat, but then they might be trying to figure out how to sell that fifth one like Jim Lee is. 40 per month for about 20 years is what Roger has sold. Laughing all the way to the bank.

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Booms your not going to take an honest opion from somone who has accualy had a bit to do with these boat's?......No one is making you buy one Boomer.

 

 

I'm usually a nice guy partner, so in this case I'll keep it nice....

 

 

No one is making me buy one....nor have I ever endorsed one

 

The majority of Macs or Ventures , that I've seen tied to docks, after the owners bought them, used them out a few times, then sold them...speaks volumes.

 

I've only ever met one owner in 40+ years, who has kept one ...he's an owner of the under canvased, under rigged and under built Venture 25...which he spent a lot of time and money upgrading.

 

Every Mac owner I've every met, became a former Mac Owner....and to be kind,I won't tell you what they've said about them.

 

At the owners request I've sailed more then a few Ventures and Macs considerably, just to make sure the owner's got as much input possible, to get the most out of them under sail.

 

In all that time, I can't say I've every been impressed with any of them. for various reasons....and I'm sure you know what they are.

 

The only good thing I have to say about the MacGregors....is the unsinkable feature of the Ventures and the Macs.

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40 per month for about 20 years is what Roger has sold...Laughing all the way to the bank.

 

"Laughing all the way to the bank"....I'll be kind and reserve making a statement on that.

 

I will say this....From what I've read and heard....the wife of founder of MacGregor, after looking at the Ventures...insisted he fill them with enough foam blocks to make them unsinkable, because she couldn't bare the responsibility of a tragedy...and all she had to do is look at them, to request this feature.

 

That speaks volumes of itself.

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I have always viewed the mast as being the "get home" motor on a Mac26.

If you get into the Mac forums, you will read that a lot of the owners think that, a power boat with an auxilliary sail.

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Sailing Anarchy boat snobs.

 

Those who stick around and don't leave Sailing Anarchy, for the most part are experienced and safe sailors with lot's of years of experience. Most of the rest who stick around are those who may have from zero to considerable experience, with a passion for sailing and doing it in a safe, prudent and seamanship manner , and a desire to learn more. There are probably very few of them who are snobbish sailors.....These sailors are the real deal, and for the most part, and are going to express concerns about boats of choice,whether it be a go fast, a 4 knot-er or a capable cruiser....and are far from being boat snobs.

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Ahh...the shiitt stirrer is here.

 

Want me to change it for ya big girl?

 

BTW...what do ya focus on, when your sucking on your thumb....want me send ya a new blanky.... :lol:

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Want me to change it for ya big girl?

 

BTW...what do ya focus on, when your sucking on your thumb.... :lol:

WTF? :lol:

 

post-61947-0-22476600-1354430207.jpg

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What a tweeb...

 

Well don't just sit there sucking on your thumb...ya dumb shiitt

 

Tweeb? I dont have a mobile phone.

 

So fuck off. ya old codger

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That's right your just another idiot who takes pictures of himself standing in front of border crossings in America....and goes on rants cutting down America, after being so infatuated with taking a trip over here....have another VB twinkletoes....we all know your a shitt stirrer and a wanker :lol:

 

 

Don't have a mobile phone, but you have a computer....

 

I can't help you if your a knucklehead and a shitt stirrer....oh yea, how does it feel being in the shitt business.

 

 

 

From what I've seen, this old codger could whip your sorry ass blindfolded....time to get in shape boy....

 

....and please take that thumb outta your mouth....that tooth will just keep getting more twisted.

 

gallery_61947_562_21538.jpg

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Hey I see you've logged in, not as a anonymous user.

 

Good for you.

 

OK I'll get off your lawn.

 

YA, stupid old codger.

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You ready to drop it...I know I don't like it....I've always been a peacemaker...but at the same time, I never back down.

 

Make your peace then and shake hands.

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You ready to drop it...I know I don't like it....I've always been a peacemaker...but at the same time, I never back down.

 

Make your peace then and shake hands.

What sort of bullshit is that. I'm not a fucking employee dumb ass.

 

Back down, :lol:

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What sort of bullshit is that. I'm not a fucking employee dumb ass.

 

Back down, :lol:

I know your a dumb ass...tell me something I don't know.....

 

Is this a respect elder thing?

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Tell ya what....hold that thought....and get yourself another VB....and I'll get another cup of coffee.

 

...and yes....gotta grind the beans and all the rest.....so it's gonna be a while.

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Fuck its like talking to my old man :wacko:

 

Umm, boogler.

 

Two words...

 

Time Zones... :lol: ya dick HEad

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How old are ya ....genetically maybe your older then me.

 

Is your old man alive....how's the ticker doing? How's your blood pressure? Still seeing bright spots in your vision?

 

Have you been having pain or uneasiness...is your skin tingly.

 

Perhaps it's time to cut back on the VB....don't wanna have a stroke.

 

Time to start taking some daily walks...1/2 an hour at a stretch...in the morning and the evening.

 

Maybe in a month you can start really working out...in a couple months jumping rope.

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So how ya feeling?

 

BTW... Googler, you seem to google more then many.

 

Shall we show your browsing history?

 

Whatta ya say Googler?

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So how ya feeling?

Really? Honestly?

 

Well I guess I should be honest. I dont work, last job I had was about 2 weeks ago... :(

 

I've been doing some tiling for a person, but she hasn't paid me! Something to do with 'well you own it as well'

 

what the fuck is up with that :blink:

 

Oh well, maybe Boogler can help me step up. :lol:

 

Read the hand :D .

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40 per month for about 20 years is what Roger has sold...Laughing all the way to the bank.

 

"Laughing all the way to the bank"....I'll be kind and reserve making a statement on that.

 

I will say this....From what I've read and heard....the wife of founder of MacGregor, after looking at the Ventures...insisted he fill them with enough foam blocks to make them unsinkable, because she couldn't bare the responsibility of a tragedy...and all she had to do is look at them, to request this feature.

 

That speaks volumes of itself.

 

A rumor about a wife worried because lead mines are known for sinking speaks volumes? I suppose so. Too bad we don't have bigamy. She could have also married whoever made the J-24. :lol:

 

My opinion of MacGregor powersailers prior to my experiences selling them was a lot closer to your current opinion, but exposure to the boats and the owners changed that. I have personally seen people buy them, decide they like sailing, sell them, and buy better sailboats. That's something that should not be happening, according to your view. The reality I experienced is more convincing to me than your brushes with a few of the ten thousand or so of these boats that are out there in the world.

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what the fuck is up with that

 

Shall we show all YOUR googling?

 

YOU REALLY READY TO BE HONEST

Go for it..

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