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Bull Gator

Gun nutter sttrikes again

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If you want better gun control, Jocal, move to Maryland. Brady ranks them quite high.

 

If you want less crime, move to Idaho or Utah.

 

Why do so many diagonal lines appear when you connect state names on this pic?

 

brady-vs-census.jpg

 

Utah lowest Brady score and among the least.crime. I wonder why that is?

 

 

'Cuz an armed Morman is a polite Morman?....

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If you want better gun control, Jocal, move to Maryland. Brady ranks them quite high.

 

If you want less crime, move to Idaho or Utah.

 

Why do so many diagonal lines appear when you connect state names on this pic?

 

brady-vs-census.jpg

 

Utah lowest Brady score and among the least.crime. I wonder why that is?

 

 

'Cuz an armed Morman is a polite Morman?....

 

Hard to shoot someone you might run into at church the next day.

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Hard to shoot someone you might run into at church the next day.

 

If you shoot them and they show up at church the next day, I would have to wonder about your marksmanship skills.

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Hard to shoot someone you might run into at church the next day.

 

If you shoot them and they show up at church the next day, I would have to wonder about your marksmanship skills.

 

 

Or the actual presence of a supreme deity?.....:lol:

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Hard to shoot someone you might run into at church the next day.

 

If you shoot them and they show up at church the next day, I would have to wonder about your marksmanship skills.

 

 

Or the actual presence of a supreme deity?..... :lol:

 

Now Lazarus, this is the last time I am going to do this for you.

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Speaking of Mormons and guns..... Was chatting to a British mate of mine over drinks last week. He had just gotten back from a 3 week trip to the western US. He met a hot Stew on the Delta flight from London (She was Smokin', I saw the pics) on the way to Vegas. Long story short, they hooked up and she spent a week with him in Vegas and then they went to her home in Salt Lake City (Delta Hub).


She turned out to be a gun carrying mormom. He said, as a Brit, he didn't know which was more weird. The mormons or the fact that everyone had guns. Both were very foreign to him. But he said she was like a caged animal in the sack, so it was fairly easy to overlook the quirks.

 

Funny thing is she just showed up in Dubai soon after (unnanounced) with her kids looking for him and was planning on moving in. Why are all the hot ones the most psycho??? I don't get it :blink:

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September 30, 2013, 3:53 pm 198 Comments Weekend Gun Report: September 27-29, 2013

starck-blog480.pngAndrea Pavanello/Wikimedia CommonsA lamp from Philippe Starck’s 2005 “Gun Collection.”

The number of children accidentally shot and killed by adults or other children in America is higher than previously reported, according to a front-page story in yesterday’s Times. A review of hundreds of child firearm deaths by Michael Luo and Mike McIntire found that accidental shootings occur roughly twice as often as records indicate because of idiosyncrasies in how such deaths are classified by the authorities: more than half of the 259 accidental firearm deaths of kids under age 15 identified by The Times in eight states were not recorded as accidents. Such shootings are routinely classified as homicides, a common practice when one person unintentionally shoots another.

The National Rifle Association has contended that children are more likely to be killed by falls, poisoning or drownings than accidental shootings, citing the lower figures in fact sheets opposing “safe storage” gun laws. And while the organization’s lobbying arm claims that criminals who mishandle firearms are responsible for most fatal accidents involving children, The Times’s review found that, in a vast majority of cases, the shooting was either self-inflicted or done by another child.

Fewer than 20 states have enacted laws to hold adults criminally liable if they fail to secure guns away from children. Here is today’s report, which includes a 3-year-old girl accidentally shot during a fight among teenagers, a 6-year-old who accidentally shot himself and a 14-year-old accidentally shot by his friends.

Jennifer Mascia

Friday:

A 3-year old girl was shot and wounded during a fight among nearly a hundred teenagers in Yonkers, N.Y., Friday afternoon, and a 14-year-old and a 16-year-old were arrested. A 14-year-old boy was shot in the leg with what appears to be a stray bullet at a Bronx, N.Y., playground late Friday. Following a years-long feud, Josephine Ruckinger burst into her parents’ home in Ashville, Pa., Friday night and shot and killed her mother and brother before her father shot and killed her. Four people were shot and wounded at a Jacksonville, Fla., nightclub early Friday. A 16-year-old wasshot in the leg and wounded while walking home from school in Lehigh Acres, Fla., Thursday afternoon, and the 18-year-old suspect was arrested after fleeing on a bicycle.

A 17-year-old boy was killed and three men were injured in separateshootings on the south side of Chicago, Ill., Thursday afternoon and Friday morning. Ronald J. Harris, a pastor, was fatally shot as he preached to a crowd of 60 during a revival service in Lake Charles, La., Friday night, and a church deacon has been accused of the crime. Cheyenne Green, 29, wasshot and killed during an 8th grade football game in Gilmer, Tex., Thursday night, and police arrested Jonathan Ray Shepherd, the father of her child, with whom she was engaged in a custody battle. Police believe the shootingthat claimed the life of 47-year-old Jane Aiello and critically injured her husband, 48-year-old Vito Aiello, at their home in Wilkes-Barre, Pa., late Thursday was an attempted murder-suicide.

One person was killed and another person was injured in a shooting at a flea market in West Palm Beach, Fla., Friday afternoon. William Keith Hall, 57, shot and killed a man who was robbing his home in far east Dallas, Tex., Thursday night, and was then shot and killed by police when he pointed his gun at officers and witnesses. Christian Patrick DeHart, 22, an Army reservist, was killed and two other people were injured in a shooting in the garage of a home in south Tulsa, Okla., early Friday. Jose Alfredo Rodriguez, 32, was shot and killed in an apartment complex in Wasco, Calif., Thursday night.

A woman was shot and wounded during a possible home invasion inAmarillo, Tex., early Friday. A man was shot and killed in the parking lot of a Walmart in League City, Tex., Thursday night, and his girlfriend, Roshanda Latrice Howard, 41, was charged with murder. A 30-year-old man was shot and killed in north Richmond, Calif., Friday afternoon, the second homicide in the area in 18 hours. Dominiquie Phillips, 26, was shotand killed after a fight in Fort Worth, Tex., late Thursday. A 34-year-old man was shot in the back and wounded in Lowell, Mass., Thursday night, and the motive might have been a “soured relationship” involving a woman.

Branden Cervantez, 30, was shot and killed after getting mixed up in a fight between two women that started in a Fresno, Calif., bar and spilled into an alleyway early Friday. A man was shot in the head and killed in the Dolfield neighborhood of northwest Baltimore, Md., Thursday evening. A man was killed in a shooting at an apartment complex on the south side of Fort Wayne, Ind., late Thursday, the fourth shooting in eight days. Garland R. Ruffin, 33, was found lying on a sidewalk suffering from multiple gunshotwounds in Baker, La., Thursday morning. A man and a woman were shotand killed at an apartment complex in Wixom, Mich., Wednesday, in what police believe may have been a murder-suicide.

23-year-old Terrell Jones was shot and killed at an apartment complex in southwest Charlotte, N.C., early Friday. A 26-year-old man was shot and killed and his ex-girlfriend and her new boyfriend were injured when the victim went to went to his former girlfriend’s Cincinnati, Ohio, home with a gun early Friday, sparking a firefight while three small children slept upstairs. Police believe a woman was shot in the shoulder by her husband inNew Castle, Ind., Thursday morning. Ashley Calanche, 21, was found shotin the head and killed in a Santa Paula, Calif., park Friday afternoon, and a 31-year-old woman was arrested.

A 22-year-old man was shot and critically wounded in south Inglewood, Tenn., Thursday night. Two men, 38 and 49, were wounded in a shooting in the Kensington section of Philadelphia, Pa., Friday night. A man in his 20s was shot in neck and critically injured in west Philadelphia late Thursday. A man was shot to death in his home near Carthage, Ind., Friday, and his wife was taken in for questioning. Two men were shot in Gridley, Calif., Friday night, and the man deputies think is responsible said it was self defense. A man accidentally shot himself in the leg while fighting with his girlfriend inFlint, Mich., Thursday afternoon.

A 19-year-old man is in critical condition following a shooting in the South Ward of Trenton, N.J., Friday night. One person was shot and wounded at a gas station in northwest Roanoke, Va., Friday night, an hour after a “stop the violence” vigil ended. Two men, 26 and 57, were wounded during a drive-by shooting in Joliet, Ill., Thursday afternoon. A 22-year-old man was shotand killed in Milwaukee, Wis., late Friday. Gary Roberts, 57, was foundshot to death in the basement of a home in Hancock County, Ind., Friday afternoon, and his wife, 55-year-old Elizabeth Roberts, was taken into custody.

21-year-old Bobby “BJ” Smith, a Tuskegee University student and father of a newborn, was shot to death at an unauthorized block party in Tuskegee, Ala., Friday night. Robert Inzar Jr., 47, was shot and seriously wounded by his brother during an altercation in Winston-Salem, N.C., Friday night. Basheik Reddick, 22, was hanging out with a large group of people in a schoolyard in the Bushwick section of Brooklyn, N.Y., Friday night when a van pulled up and someone shot him once in the chest, killing him.

Saturday:

A drive-by shooting injured a 5-year-old boy and a 17-year-old girl in north St. Louis, Mo., Saturday afternoon. Police said a former Fort Bragg soldier who suffered from severe post-traumatic stress disorder fatally shottwo of his neighbors and their dog in west Fayetteville, N.C., before turning the gun on himself Saturday night. A 15-year-old boy was wounded by gang-related gunfire while he was sleeping in his apartment in southeastPortland, Ore., early Saturday. Two people were shot in the torso and a third person was grazed in the face in a shooting near Yankee Stadium in theBronx, N.Y., early Saturday.

A woman and a teenage boy were hit by bullet fragments when a man followed someone onto the porch of a home and started shooting in Williamsport, Pa., Saturday afternoon. Two people were injured in a shooting at a nightclub in the Old East Dallas neighborhood of Dallas, Tex., early Saturday. Three people were wounded in a shooting at a Denver, Colo., nightclub early Saturday. At another nightclub in Denver early Saturday, two people were injured in a shooting following a conflict of some kind. One man was shot and killed and another man was wounded when a fight erupted outside aMinneapolis, Minn., bar early Saturday.

Police discovered the body of 16-year-old Chauncey Brown face-down with agunshot wound to his chest in St. Louis, Mo., Saturday afternoon, and another 16-year-old is in custody. A 16-year-old boy was shot while walking near Sandman Park in north Stockton, Calif., early Saturday. A 17-year-old girl was shot in the leg in the Hilltop section of Wilmington, Del., Saturday night. A 19-year-old man shot and killed himself in the parking lot of Gray-New Gloucester High School in Gray, Me., while several athletic events were taking place Saturday afternoon. A 55-year-old woman was shotand critically wounded at a bus stop in Hampton, Va., early Friday.

A 25-year-old man was shot and wounded inside an apartment in Quincy, Ill., Saturday afternoon. An 18-year-old man found shot to death on a West Harris County, Tex., street following a road rage incident Saturday afternoon. 22-year-old John Alexander was shot in the head and killed while sitting in his car in Springfield, Mass., early Saturday. Acquera Story, 26, was shot and killed while driving down a residential street in Valley, Ala., Saturday night. Tijuana Davis, 39, was shot and killed in her apartment inNiagara Falls, N.Y., early Saturday. Two teenagers were shot and wounded in a home in Garfield Heights, Ohio, Saturday night.

Kevin R. Wright, 27, was shot and killed at his Spring Hill, Fla., home during a dispute over money Saturday afternoon. Two men, 21 and 22, were wounded in a shooting in east New Orleans, La., Saturday afternoon. A 41-year-old was killed and an 18-year-old was wounded in a shooting at a home in Huntsville, Ala., Saturday night. A man died after being shot in eastHollywood, Calif., early Saturday. A 36-year-old woman was shot twice and wounded by her boyfriend in Lansing, Mich., Saturday morning. A man was shot while driving in west Omaha, Neb., Saturday night. Two people were shot during a home invasion and robbery in northwest Miami-Dade County, Fla., Saturday afternoon.

A 31-year-old man was fatally shot on the west side of Buffalo, N.Y., Saturday morning. A 27-year-old man was shot and wounded after his iPhone was stolen in southwest Philadelphia, Pa., early Saturday. 25-year-old Troy Johnson Jr. was gunned down during a robbery in front of his house on the west end of Louisville, Ky., early Saturday. A man was shot in the head and critically injured in the Jamacha-Lomita neighborhood of San Diego, Calif., Saturday night. Kameron Orr was shot twice in the back in York, Pa., Saturday night. A 17-year-old boy was shot in the leg in East Jackson, Tenn., Saturday.

A man was shot in the leg and wounded while sitting in a van on the east side of Cleveland, Ohio, early Saturday. A man is in critical condition following a shooting in Baltimore, Md., early Saturday. A 50-year-old pizza delivery driver was shot and wounded during an attempted robbery in Baltimore County, Md., Saturday night. A 27-year-old man was shot and wounded inWoodlawn, Md., Saturday night. Michelle Hinton-Phenix, 34, was shot in east Toledo, Ohio, early Saturday. 25-year-old Samuel Breeze was shot in the torso and wounded in Greensboro, N.C., early Saturday. A man wasshot and critically wounded in Syracuse, N.Y., early Saturday.

A man was shot and killed at a flea market in Mangonia Park, Fla., Saturday afternoon. Daniel Melton, 57, was shot to death in his Salem, Ore., home Saturday evening. Charles Artis and James Jones were shot and wounded during an attempted robbery in Wilson, N.C., early Saturday. A woman returning home from the grocery store with her two young children was grazed by a bullet when multiple shots were fired at her S.U.V. inJacksonville, Fla., Saturday night. A 24-year-old man was killed and a 20-year-old man was injured in a shooting in Antioch, Calif., Saturday night. One person is in critical condition after being shot in Oakland, Calif., late Saturday.

A 39-year-old man was shot and killed by the owner of a Corpus Christi, Tex., convenience store Saturday evening after he tried to steal a 12-pack of beer; 52-year-old Rodney James Duve was later arrested for murder. A man was shot and wounded during a robbery at an auto servicing store in South Bend, Ind., late Saturday. A 45-year-old man was struck in the stomach by a bullet that ricocheted after someone opened fire outside a bar in downtownBrockton, Mass., early Saturday. Three people were shot and wounded in separate incidents in Milwaukee, Wis., on Saturday. Four people were shot, two critically, in Kansas City, Mo., early Saturday.

An 18-year-old man and a 34-year-old man were injured in two shootings in the 1st Ward of Paterson, N.J., Friday and Saturday. 33-year-old Jesus Antonio Macias was shot and killed by a man on a bicycle in front of a gas station in Sacramento, Calif., late Saturday. 71-year-old Dixie Chaney Jones was shot and killed during a robbery attempt in Las Vegas, Nev., Saturday night, and two teenagers were arrested. A man was wounded in a possibly gang-related shooting in Long Beach, Calif., Saturday night.

Sunday:

A 6-year-old boy accidentally shot and wounded himself while playing with a loaded pistol he found in his Rochester, N.Y., home Sunday evening. Lecameron T. Smith, 23, was shot on the street and left for dead on the south side of Fort Wayne, Ind., Sunday afternoon. A 14-year-old boy was accidentally shot in a park next to an elementary school while he and his friends played with a loaded gun in Memphis, Tenn., Sunday afternoon. A female motel clerk was shot in the head and wounded during an attempted robbery in Marion, Ill., early Sunday. A woman was shot in the arm and a man was shot in the foot in the Creekwood Community of Wilmington, N.C., Sunday afternoon.

A shooting at a car wash possibly perpetrated by a disgruntled employee left one person dead and two others wounded in Stafford, Tex., Sunday morning. A man was shot in the face and wounded in Sioux Falls, S.D., Sunday morning. A 23-year-old man was shot in the chest and a 28-year-old man was shot in the back in the Treme area of New Orleans, La., early Sunday. One person was shot and wounded in Flint, Mich., Sunday evening. Julie Rodriguez, 46, was shot to death in her driveway as she left for church in San Antonio, Tex., Sunday. A man was shot and wounded outside a nightclub in the Shockoe Bottom area of Richmond, Va., early Sunday.

An 18-year-old man was shot in the neck and killed at an apartment complex in Vallejo, Calif., Sunday night. An unidentified teenager was shot in the buttocks in Bridgeport, Conn., Sunday afternoon. A man was shot and killed while sitting in his car in the Algiers community of New Orleans, La., Sunday night. One person was shot following an altercation with two others inDeltona, Fla., Sunday night. Desi Kingsberry, 30, was shot in the head and killed in the front yard of his home in the town of Wyandanch on Long Island, N.Y., early Sunday. One person was shot and wounded at a home inDillon, S.C., early Sunday.

Three men were shot and wounded while sitting in a car on the north end ofProvidence, R.I., early Sunday. A man in his 20s was sitting in a parked car near a playground when he was shot and wounded in east ProvidenceSunday morning. A 51-year-old man was shot in the back while trying to prevent the perpetrator of a car crash from leaving the scene in the Mountain View neighborhood of Anchorage, Alaska, early Sunday. Six people were wounded in four shootings in Washington, D.C., during an 11-hour period over the weekend. A man was killed and 14 people were wounded in shootingsacross Chicago, Ill., from Friday to Sunday.

According to Slate’s gun-death tracker, an estimated 8,844 people have died as a result of gun violence in America since the Newtown massacre on December 14, 2012.

 

How the NRA tried to stop a member from conducting gun-control research
September 25, 2013 9:15AM ET
A UC Davis professor received an email from leading US gun rights lobby aiming to discredit his work
src.adapt.960.high.1380150532944.jpg
Gabriel Bouys/AFP/Getty Images

The National Rifle Association reportedly advised its members against participating in a study released this week that shows a majority of gun sellers want tougher background checks for gun buyers.

 

The NRA apparently was unaware that the University of California professor behind the study -- himself an NRA member -- received the email discrediting his research.

 

Garen Wintemute, director of the UC Davis Violence Prevention Research Program, conducted a survey of 1,601 federally licensed gun dealers and pawnbrokers across the country in 2011. Fifty-five percent of respondents supported comprehensive background checks.

 

But when Wintemute started interviewing gun vendors for his study, he received an email essentially advising him against himself.

 

"If you are a federally licensed dealer in firearms, you may recently have received a survey questionnaire from gun control supporter Dr. Garen Wintemute, of the University of California, Davis," said the email, obtained by Al Jazeera.

 

"Why is Dr. Wintemute sending the survey?" it continued. "Consider the source. Over the years, he has received hundreds of thousands of dollars from anti-gun organizations to conduct 'studies' designed to promote gun control."

Wintemute said he never received any money from anti-gun groups. "I've turned it down, in fact," he said.

 

Wintemute said he did not respond to the email. "The positions taken by the leadership of the organization," he said, "don’t represent NRA members."

 

The NRA was not available for comment at time of publication.

Wintemute completed the study, despite the opposition. In 2011, he found that a majority of gun shop owners supported comprehensive background checks that include provisions barring people from purchasing firearms if they have a history of everything from mental illness to alcoholism-related crimes.

"I suspect that the levels of support we got in 2011 would probably be higher if they were published today," after mass shootings in Aurora, Colo., and Newtown, Conn, he said.

Steve Schneider, owner of firearm vendor Atlantic Guns in Silver Spring, Md., pointed out that "the federal background check is already in place," though he would not talk about his personal views on gun-sale regulations.

 

According to the report, only 16 states nationwide have laws mandating background checks for private purchases -- mostly at gun shows and over the Internet. Private vendors, who Wintemute estimates sell some 40 percent of firearms, are not required by federal law to perform background checks.

 

Wintemute said that, although it would mean more paperwork, a majority of vendors support a system where "private purchases would have to be routed through a licensed dealer" for paperwork to be done.

 

"The last thing they want is for a gun to go out of their store to be used in killings and suicides," he added.

But gun-control advocates suggest there may be another reason for licensed gun vendors' support for background checks.

 

"Because of the loophole on background checks still, (the licensed dealers' private) competitors don't have to comply with the same laws that they have to comply with," said Monte Frank, the legal counsel for anti-gun-violence group Newtown Action Alliance.

 

Last December, 20-year-old Adam Lanza shot and killed 26 people at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., where Frank's daughter once went to school. Twenty of the victims were children.

 

"If you go to a gun show," Frank said, "and at one table there's a federally licensed gun dealer who has to comply with federal law, if someone goes to that dealer and fails a background check, they can go to the next table, with no license, and they would not have to conduct a background check."

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September 30, 2013, 3:53 pm 198 Comments Weekend Gun Report: September 27-29, 2013

starck-blog480.pngAndrea Pavanello/Wikimedia CommonsA lamp from Philippe Starck’s 2005 “Gun Collection.”

<snip> (The lamp's cool,thanks!)

 

JoCal - once again I'll ask: Why are these deaths more tragic than a death by any other preventable cause? How do these numerically compare to other preventable causes of death?

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And in other breaking news, no one has died in an automobile accident here in Hell-A in the past eleven minutes......

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Gun retailers strongly support expanded criteria for denying gun purchases, UC Davis survey finds

29

(SACRAMENTO, Calif.) —

A scientific survey of gun dealers and pawnbrokers in 43 U.S. states has found nearly unanimous support for denying gun purchases based on prior convictions and for serious mental illness with a history of violence or alcohol or drug abuse – conditions that might have prevented Washington Navy Yard shooter Aaron Alexis from legally purchasing a firearm.

The research, conducted by the UC Davis Violence Prevention Research Program, is to be published in the Journal of Urban Health. It was accepted for publication on September 13. The journal has authorized publicizing the findings prior to its online posting. Copies of the report are available upon request from UC Davis.

The research is the third report from the UC Davis’ Firearm Licensee Survey, which assessed support among federally licensed firearms retailers for a background check requirement on all firearm transfers and selected criteria for denying handgun purchases.

The survey is believed to be the first of its kind to gather the views of federally licensed firearms dealers and pawnbrokers on important social issues and the firearms business itself.

“Retailers are well aware and concerned that prohibited persons, those with criminal intent and persons at high risk of committing crimes can readily acquire firearms under current conditions,” saidGaren Wintemute, professor of emergency medicine and director of the UC Davis Violence Prevention Research Program. “Our survey was conducted in 2011 prior to mass shootings in Aurora, Colorado; Oak Creek, Wisconsin; Newtown, Connecticut; and the Washington Navy Yard. Levels of concern may now be higher among firearm retailers, as they are among the public in general.”

Background checks, additional denial criteria endorsed

The survey found that most respondents (55.4 percent) supported a comprehensive background check requirement, with 37.5 percent strongly favoring it. Of those who favored comprehensive background checks, the strength of their support corresponded to the degree that respondents agreed it is too easy for criminals to get guns, recommended more severe sentences for illegal firearm purchasing and provided higher estimates on the prevalence of illegal gun sales by other retailers.

By wide margins, respondents endorsed three existing policies that deny handgun purchases to individuals convicted of aggravated assault involving a lethal weapon or causing serious injury, armed robbery, or domestic violence. They also strongly supported six of nine potential denial criteria proposed in the survey. The percentage of support for existing (*) or proposed criterion for denial of handgun purchases are detailed below:

  • *Aggravated assault, involving a lethal weapon or serious injury, 99.1 percent
  • *Armed robbery, 99.3 percent
  • *Assault and battery on an intimate partner:/ domestic violence, 79.6 percent
  • Publicly displaying a firearm in a threatening manner, 84.8 percent
  • Possession of equipment for illegal drug use, 80.7 percent
  • Assault and battery, not involving a lethal weapon or serious injury, 67.4 percent
  • Resisting arrest, 53.1 percent
  • Alcohol abuse, with repeated cases of alcohol-related violence, 90.1 percent
  • Alcohol abuse, with repeated cases driving under the influence (DUI) or similar offenses, 70.7 percent
  • Serious mental illness, with a history of violence, 98.9 percent
  • Serious mental illness, with a history of alcohol or drug abuse, 97.4 percent
  • Serious mental illness, but no violence and no alcohol or drug abuse, 91.2 percent

“Respondents very strongly supported an array of criteria for denial of handgun purchase by wide margins and in some cases nearly unanimously,” Wintemute said. “Support fell below a two-thirds margin in a single case: resisting arrest.”

Informing public policy

As federal and state policies on eligibility to purchase and possess firearms and background check requirements for firearm transfers are undergoing intensive review and, in some cases, modification, the views of gun retailers on illegal gun sales and other criminal activity among buyers and retailers could help legislators devise equitable gun laws.

For example, California’s legislature has sent to Governor Brown a bill (SB 755 authored by Senator Lois Wolk) to prevent those with multiple convictions for alcohol-related offenses, such as DUIs, from purchasing and possessing firearms. More than two thirds (70.7 percent) of the retailers endorsed this proposal.

About the survey

Wintemute surveyed 1,601 of 9,720 dealers, pawnbrokers and gunsmiths who sold 50 or more firearms each year. The survey comprised 38 questions and was distributed by mail. The response rate was 36.9 percent. Previously published reports detailed other aspects of the survey, from retailers’ views on whether it is too easy for criminals to get guns in America to the frequency of illegal gun-purchase attempts and their perceptions on the willingness of fellow retailers to engage in illegal activity.

The citation for the current study is: Wintemute GJ. Support for a comprehensive background check requirement and expanded denial criteria for firearm transfers: findings from the Firearms Licensee Survey. To be published by the Journal of Urban Health.

The research was funded in part with a grant from The California Wellness Foundation. Initial planning also was supported in part with a grant from the Joyce Foundation.

The Violence Prevention Research Program is an organized research program of the University of California, Davis, that conducts leading-edge research to further America's efforts to understand and prevent violence. Since its founding, the program has produced a uniquely rich and informative body of research on the causes, nature and prevention of violence, especially firearm violence. Current areas of emphasis include the prediction of criminal behavior, the effectiveness of waiting period and background-check programs for prospective purchasers of firearms, and the determinants of firearm violence.

Pasted from <http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/publish/news/newsroom/8217>

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September 30, 2013, 3:53 pm 198 Comments Weekend Gun Report: September 27-29, 2013

starck-blog480.pngAndrea Pavanello/Wikimedia CommonsA lamp from Philippe Starck’s 2005 “Gun Collection.”

<snip> (The lamp's cool,thanks!)

 

JoCal - once again I'll ask: Why are these deaths more tragic than a death by any other preventable cause? How do these numerically compare to other preventable causes of death?

 

 

These deaths are foolish; they are more tragic because of the trend, the direction.

They are more tragic because a very ugly industry is supporting those deaths; they do so for profit.

"Law abiding" individuals support the deaths because of their own insecurity and/or thrill of their sport. WTF?

 

Your caution and grand thoroughness have not checked them, Guy.

Meanwhile, their legislative and cultural effects are running amok.

 

Where do the numbers rank? As of 2010, I understand these deaths rank lower than auto deaths in ten or more states, using numbers inclusive of suicides by gun.

But then again, auto safety is monitored and regulated, a no brainer.

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And every new firearm built and sold since the 60's has a safety on it.

 

How much more 'monitoring & regulating' do they need?....

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September 30, 2013, 3:53 pm 198 Comments Weekend Gun Report: September 27-29, 2013

starck-blog480.pngAndrea Pavanello/Wikimedia CommonsA lamp from Philippe Starck’s 2005 “Gun Collection.”

<snip> (The lamp's cool,thanks!)

 

JoCal - once again I'll ask: Why are these deaths more tragic than a death by any other preventable cause? How do these numerically compare to other preventable causes of death?

 

 

These deaths are foolish; they are more tragic because of the trend, the direction.

They are more tragic because a very ugly industry is supporting those deaths; they do so for profit.

"Law abiding" individuals support the deaths because of their own insecurity and/or thrill of their sport. WTF?

 

Your caution and grand thoroughness have not checked them, Guy.

Meanwhile, their legislative and cultural effects are running amok.

 

Where do the numbers rank? As of 2010, I understand these deaths rank lower than auto deaths in ten or more states, using numbers inclusive of suicides by gun.

But then again, auto safety is monitored and regulated, a no brainer.

 

So - because you detest the implement, the deaths are more tragic. I hate it when cars kill motorcycles - should we outlaw cars so that the bikes can be safer? Shoot, my 30 yr old motorcycle gets 50MPG - think of the greenhouse gas reduction if EVERYONE had a bike instead of a car? Gridlock? No more baby! Outlaw the cars, it's only reasonable!

 

Sorry brudda, that emotional argument doesn't stand, nor does your continued focus on the implement as being causal. Behaviors, and the societal factors that bring about those behaviors are where we need to focus, and your pious hand wringing is merely delaying the real conversations that we need to have on a national level if you ever expect anything to improve.

 

Advocates of prohibition have already given up on the human component. That position implies that the human factor, the behaviors that brought about the problem, can't be curtailed or modified, so the next best thing is to make certain that the ability of those behaviors to cause harm is minimized.

 

That position, as far as I'm concerned, is akin to the mother of the tantrum-throwing two year old looking at the other restaurant patrons and saying "I understand if you want to move - my kid's being a brat", instead of picking the kid up outta the high chair and taking him outside so that his behavior, the behavior that it's that parent's responsibility to control, doesn't ruin the other restaurant patrons' evening.

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This one seems like it might belong in Booth's "hot and crazy" thread over in GA, but...

 

Baseball bat nutter attempts to break into gun nutter's house, is shot

 

September 30, 2013, 3:53 pm 198 Comments[/size] Weekend Gun Report: September 27-29, 2013

...

A woman was shot and wounded during a possible home invasion inAmarillo, Tex., early Friday.

 

Duplicate post, and it sure seems like the person defending himself against the baseball bat nutter breaking into his house had some justification.

 

But then, so did the woman who defended herself against the rapist in your last crop of tragedies. Mason was her name, wasn't it? You never did answer my questions about her.

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And every new firearm built and sold since the 60's has a safety on it.

 

How much more 'monitoring & regulating' do they need?....

doesn't mean the average person knows where it is!

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Speaking of Mormons and guns..... Was chatting to a British mate of mine over drinks last week. He had just gotten back from a 3 week trip to the western US. He met a hot Stew on the Delta flight from London (She was Smokin', I saw the pics) on the way to Vegas. Long story short, they hooked up and she spent a week with him in Vegas and then they went to her home in Salt Lake City (Delta Hub).

 

She turned out to be a gun carrying mormom. He said, as a Brit, he didn't know which was more weird. The mormons or the fact that everyone had guns. Both were very foreign to him. But he said she was like a caged animal in the sack, so it was fairly easy to overlook the quirks.

 

Funny thing is she just showed up in Dubai soon after (unnanounced) with her kids looking for him and was planning on moving in. Why are all the hot ones the most psycho??? I don't get it :blink:

i didn't realise morman woman were so footloose and fancy free.

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Speaking of Mormons and guns..... Was chatting to a British mate of mine over drinks last week. He had just gotten back from a 3 week trip to the western US. He met a hot Stew on the Delta flight from London (She was Smokin', I saw the pics) on the way to Vegas. Long story short, they hooked up and she spent a week with him in Vegas and then they went to her home in Salt Lake City (Delta Hub).

 

She turned out to be a gun carrying mormom. He said, as a Brit, he didn't know which was more weird. The mormons or the fact that everyone had guns. Both were very foreign to him. But he said she was like a caged animal in the sack, so it was fairly easy to overlook the quirks.

 

Funny thing is she just showed up in Dubai soon after (unnanounced) with her kids looking for him and was planning on moving in. Why are all the hot ones the most psycho??? I don't get it :blink:

i didn't realise morman woman were so footloose and fancy free.
Oral is moral.

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And every new firearm built and sold since the 60's has a safety on it.

 

How much more 'monitoring & regulating' do they need?....

doesn't mean the average person knows where it is!

 

 

It's like gravity, moran----people learn it by the age of fourteen months.

 

I fuking give up......

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September 30, 2013, 3:53 pm 198 Comments Weekend Gun Report: September 27-29, 2013

starck-blog480.pngAndrea Pavanello/Wikimedia CommonsA lamp from Philippe Starck’s 2005 “Gun Collection.”

<snip> (The lamp's cool,thanks!)

 

JoCal - once again I'll ask: Why are these deaths more tragic than a death by any other preventable cause? How do these numerically compare to other preventable causes of death?

 

 

These deaths are foolish; they are more tragic because of the trend, the direction.

They are more tragic because a very ugly industry is supporting those deaths; they do so for profit.

"Law abiding" individuals support the deaths because of their own insecurity and/or thrill of their sport. WTF?

 

Your caution and grand thoroughness have not checked them, Guy.

Meanwhile, their legislative and cultural effects are running amok.

 

Where do the numbers rank? As of 2010, I understand these deaths rank lower than auto deaths in ten or more states, using numbers inclusive of suicides by gun.

But then again, auto safety is monitored and regulated, a no brainer.

obviously there is no right to drive, but imagine if you didn't require a license, insurance or registration to drive a car. or there was no requirement for a car to be roadworthy. or there were no dui laws. imagine the outrage!

would automatics be banned? would there be calls for limiting cylinders?

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obviously there is no right to drive, but imagine if you didn't require a license, insurance or registration to drive a car. or there was no requirement for a car to be roadworthy. or there were no dui laws. imagine the outrage!

would automatics be banned? would there be calls for limiting cylinders?

 

You do realize that the end goal is to ban all guns, right? That is what people want. If the people pushing the laws did not have that agenda in mind, then the people who oppose them might be willing to listen and work together. It would be absurd to go along with any law now, since that is just moving the ball further down the line to a complete ban. Some of us don't want that, and will do whatever we can to stop it from happening.

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obviously there is no right to drive, but imagine if you didn't require a license, insurance or registration to drive a car. or there was no requirement for a car to be roadworthy. or there were no dui laws. imagine the outrage!

would automatics be banned? would there be calls for limiting cylinders?

 

You do realize that the end goal is to ban all guns, right? That is what people want. If the people pushing the laws did not have that agenda in mind, then the people who oppose them might be willing to listen and work together. It would be absurd to go along with any law now, since that is just moving the ball further down the line to a complete ban. Some of us don't want that, and will do whatever we can to stop it from happening.

I don't want to ban all guns. Ban on High capacity mags and AR15's, gun registration, murder insurance, punative taxes on ammo? Yes.

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Punitive taxes on ammo a constitutional right's neccessity? F'ng brilliant. What the hell do you have against America? And the poor? Is this what a Progressive really thinks like? if so.....we're f'ng doomed as a country...

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obviously there is no right to drive, but imagine if you didn't require a license, insurance or registration to drive a car. or there was no requirement for a car to be roadworthy. or there were no dui laws. imagine the outrage!

would automatics be banned? would there be calls for limiting cylinders?

 

You do realize that the end goal is to ban all guns, right? That is what people want. If the people pushing the laws did not have that agenda in mind, then the people who oppose them might be willing to listen and work together. It would be absurd to go along with any law now, since that is just moving the ball further down the line to a complete ban. Some of us don't want that, and will do whatever we can to stop it from happening.

the result here has been to disenfranchise gun owners. eventually we say "fuck it" cause it gets to hard and expensive to comply and be legal. so, yes, i do know how this can end.

except you guys have a bill of rights and i don't see the 2nd getting repealed ever.

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obviously there is no right to drive, but imagine if you didn't require a license, insurance or registration to drive a car. or there was no requirement for a car to be roadworthy. or there were no dui laws. imagine the outrage!

would automatics be banned? would there be calls for limiting cylinders?

 

You do realize that the end goal is to ban all guns, right? That is what people want. If the people pushing the laws did not have that agenda in mind, then the people who oppose them might be willing to listen and work together. It would be absurd to go along with any law now, since that is just moving the ball further down the line to a complete ban. Some of us don't want that, and will do whatever we can to stop it from happening.

the result here has been to disenfranchise gun owners. eventually we say "fuck it" cause it gets to hard and expensive to comply and be legal. so, yes, i do know how this can end.

except you guys have a bill of rights and i don't see the 2nd getting repealed ever.

 

Nothing will get repealed ever, because the days of us agreeing on anything as a country are over. Does not mean the end goal is not a total ban.

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You are right punitive taxes on ammo is a regressive tax. Let's just do like Israel and limit ammo purchases to 50 rounds per year per person

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obviously there is no right to drive, but imagine if you didn't require a license, insurance or registration to drive a car. or there was no requirement for a car to be roadworthy. or there were no dui laws. imagine the outrage!

would automatics be banned? would there be calls for limiting cylinders?

 

You do realize that the end goal is to ban all guns, right? That is what people want. If the people pushing the laws did not have that agenda in mind, then the people who oppose them might be willing to listen and work together. It would be absurd to go along with any law now, since that is just moving the ball further down the line to a complete ban. Some of us don't want that, and will do whatever we can to stop it from happening.

the result here has been to disenfranchise gun owners. eventually we say "fuck it" cause it gets to hard and expensive to comply and be legal. so, yes, i do know how this can end.

except you guys have a bill of rights and i don't see the 2nd getting repealed ever.

 

Nothing will get repealed ever, because the days of us agreeing on anything as a country are over. Does not mean the end goal is not a total ban.

nothing i have posted in the above exchange disagrees with you.

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You are right punitive taxes on ammo is a regressive tax. Let's just do like Israel and limit ammo purchases to 50 rounds per year per person

you need to remember that it only takes one. be polite

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You are right punitive taxes on ammo is a regressive tax. Let's just do like Israel and limit ammo purchases to 50 rounds per year per person

you need to remember that it only takes one. be polite
How was I in any way impolite? Do you understand the definition of a regressive tax?

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You are right punitive taxes on ammo is a regressive tax. Let's just do like Israel and limit ammo purchases to 50 rounds per year per person

you need to remember that it only takes one. be polite
How was I in any way impolite? Do you understand the definition of a regressive tax?

my statement on being polite was more general in nature.

your tax in ammo is regressive. a sliding scale based on calibre would be more progressive

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obviously there is no right to drive, but imagine if you didn't require a license, insurance or registration to drive a car. or there was no requirement for a car to be roadworthy. or there were no dui laws. imagine the outrage!

would automatics be banned? would there be calls for limiting cylinders?

 

You do realize that the end goal is to ban all guns, right? That is what people want. If the people pushing the laws did not have that agenda in mind, then the people who oppose them might be willing to listen and work together. It would be absurd to go along with any law now, since that is just moving the ball further down the line to a complete ban. Some of us don't want that, and will do whatever we can to stop it from happening.

the result here has been to disenfranchise gun owners. eventually we say "fuck it" cause it gets to hard and expensive to comply and be legal. so, yes, i do know how this can end.

except you guys have a bill of rights and i don't see the 2nd getting repealed ever.

Nothing will get repealed ever, because the days of us agreeing on anything as a country are over. Does not mean the end goal is not a total ban.

nothing i have posted in the above exchange disagrees with you.

Yeah, I was agreeing with you on that part

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JoCal - once again I'll ask: Why are these deaths more tragic than a death by any other preventable cause? How do these numerically compare to other preventable causes of death?

 

 

These deaths are foolish; they are more tragic because of the trend, the direction.

They are more tragic because a very ugly industry is supporting those deaths; they do so for profit.

"Law abiding" individuals support the deaths because of their own insecurity and/or thrill of their sport. WTF?

 

Your caution and grand thoroughness have not checked them, Guy.

Meanwhile, their legislative and cultural effects are running amok.

 

I actually agree with you. I think the NPA* is an ugly, evil FOR-profit organization that would rather sell its products than worry about children's safety.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* NPA = National Pool Association or National Poison Association

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You are right punitive taxes on ammo is a regressive tax...

 

 

Wow, schooling you really is hard. I've told you that over and over again.

 

Last January, you claimed to have evolved on regressive ammo taxation a bit, but it seems the evolution was reversed some time in the past ten months and your ordinary force of habit to advocate for any and all gun control took over again.

 

Is there anything we can do to keep you permanently away from your inclination toward regressive taxation designed to restrict constitutional rights for the poor?

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September 30, 2013, 3:53 pm 198 Comments Weekend Gun Report: September 27-29, 2013

starck-blog480.pngAndrea Pavanello/Wikimedia CommonsA lamp from Philippe Starck’s 2005 “Gun Collection.”

<snip> (The lamp's cool,thanks!)

 

JoCal - once again I'll ask: Why are these deaths more tragic than a death by any other preventable cause? How do these numerically compare to other preventable causes of death?

 

 

These deaths are foolish; they are more tragic because of the trend, the direction.

They are more tragic because a very ugly industry is supporting those deaths; they do so for profit.

"Law abiding" individuals support the deaths because of their own insecurity and/or thrill of their sport. WTF?

 

Your caution and grand thoroughness have not checked them, Guy.

Meanwhile, their legislative and cultural effects are running amok.

 

Where do the numbers rank? As of 2010, I understand these deaths rank lower than auto deaths in ten or more states, using numbers inclusive of suicides by gun.

But then again, auto safety is monitored and regulated, a no brainer.

 

So - because you detest the implement, the deaths are more tragic. I hate it when cars kill motorcycles - should we outlaw cars so that the bikes can be safer? Shoot, my 30 yr old motorcycle gets 50MPG - think of the greenhouse gas reduction if EVERYONE had a bike instead of a car? Gridlock? No more baby! Outlaw the cars, it's only reasonable!

 

Sorry brudda, that emotional argument doesn't stand, nor does your continued focus on the implement as being causal. Behaviors, and the societal factors that bring about those behaviors are where we need to focus, and your pious hand wringing is merely delaying the real conversations that we need to have on a national level if you ever expect anything to improve.

 

Advocates of prohibition have already given up on the human component. That position implies that the human factor, the behaviors that brought about the problem, can't be curtailed or modified, so the next best thing is to make certain that the ability of those behaviors to cause harm is minimized.

 

That position, as far as I'm concerned, is akin to the mother of the tantrum-throwing two year old looking at the other restaurant patrons and saying "I understand if you want to move - my kid's being a brat", instead of picking the kid up outta the high chair and taking him outside so that his behavior, the behavior that it's that parent's responsibility to control, doesn't ruin the other restaurant patrons' evening.

 

Well said!

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These deaths are foolish; they are more tragic because of the trend, the direction.

They are more tragic because a very ugly industry is supporting those deaths; they do so for profit.

"Law abiding" individuals support the deaths because of their own insecurity and/or thrill of their sport. WTF?

 

Your caution and grand thoroughness have not checked them, Guy.

Meanwhile, their legislative and cultural effects are running amok.

 

Where do the numbers rank? As of 2010, I understand these deaths rank lower than auto deaths in ten or more states, using numbers inclusive of suicides by gun.

But then again, auto safety is monitored and regulated, a no brainer.

 

Yes jocal, this "trend" is certainly tragic.

 

SDT-2013-05-gun-crime-1-2.png

 

Here's a graph labled "Jocal". I didn't understand why they would call it that, but now it makes sense...

 

SDT-2013-05-gun-crime-1-4.png

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Yeah, 'cuz there's so many 78 year old f'ng gang bangers in this country that are just too to old aim straight....

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So - because you detest the implement, the deaths are more tragic. I hate it when cars kill motorcycles - should we outlaw cars so that the bikes can be safer? Shoot, my 30 yr old motorcycle gets 50MPG - think of the greenhouse gas reduction if EVERYONE had a bike instead of a car? Gridlock? No more baby! Outlaw the cars, it's only reasonable!

 

Sorry brudda, that emotional argument doesn't stand, nor does your continued focus on the implement as being causal. Behaviors, and the societal factors that bring about those behaviors are where we need to focus, and your pious hand wringing is merely delaying the real conversations that we need to have on a national level if you ever expect anything to improve.

 

Advocates of prohibition have already given up on the human component. That position implies that the human factor, the behaviors that brought about the problem, can't be curtailed or modified, so the next best thing is to make certain that the ability of those behaviors to cause harm is minimized.

 

That position, as far as I'm concerned, is akin to the mother of the tantrum-throwing two year old looking at the other restaurant patrons and saying "I understand if you want to move - my kid's being a brat", instead of picking the kid up outta the high chair and taking him outside so that his behavior, the behavior that it's that parent's responsibility to control, doesn't ruin the other restaurant patrons' evening.

 

 

Guy, ultimately the finer side of the human experience (to develop civilized behavior) may triumph. That is your dream and your conviction. I share the dream and conviction with you. I find your thoughts and your position quite inspiring to me personally. When they call you Unicorn Boi wear the title proudly, my friend, but you are about 200 years ahead of your time.

Today, it is just evolution, and it's not an absolute. And now the second amendment has become a player for the USA. I feel I must speak up because at this point I perceive that gun enthusiasm is misplaced, and the gun lobby is without control.

 

Guy, you seem to be stuck in an "either/or" mental framework, as are many involved in our discussion. We can coax non-violent behavior from humans while also limiting dangerous objects, including guns.

 

 

 

The Gun Report: October 9, 2013

The pro-gun movement is scared. Despite recent victories at the federal and state level, there’s a demographic drop-off on the horizon, writes Alexander Zaitchik, who covered this year’s Gun Rights Policy Conference in Houston for Media Matters. Indeed, gun industry veterans joke that N.R.A. now stands for “Normal Retirement Age.”

“It’s the 25- to 35-year-olds who are going to replace you in ten years,” Andrew Sypien of the online gun retailer CheaperThanDirt.com said at the conference. “If you don’t get them, it’s going to die here with you.”

Charles Heller of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership believes that a “gateway gun” is all it would take to hook millennials. “Going from zero to one gun is the biggest change,” he said. “Going from one to 34 is not a big deal.”

The figure who inspires the most fear in this crowd, Zaitchik reports, is Michael Bloomberg, co-founder of Mayors Against Illegal Guns. Alan Gottlieb, the bow-tied organizer of the conference, described Bloomberg’s support for state ballot-measures as “the biggest short-term threat to the movement.” His plan to counter Bloomberg’s influence is to organize a “Guns Save Lives” day on the anniversary of the Newtown massacre.

“We are not going to let the gun prohibition lobby own December 14,” Gottlieb said. “We will out-organize the other side and show America that there is a good side to guns.”

Next year’s Gun Rights Policy Conference will be held in Chicago. Here is today’s report.

Jennifer Mascia

A 2-year-old boy was accidentally shot with a .45-caliber handgun in Orange County, Fla., Tuesday. Investigators said the boy’s father and grandmother were home at the time. The gun is registered to the boy’s mother, who wasn’t home. No word on charges.

WFTV.com

A 15-year-old boy was shot at a housing complex in New Haven, Conn., Monday night. Police believe the shooting could be connected to an argument between rival gangs. The victim is uncooperative.

WFSB.com

Four people were wounded, three of them critically, in a shooting at an apartment complex in Inglewood, Calif., Tuesday afternoon. A witness saw a woman run into the street screaming, saying someone came into her home and hurt her family. Police are looking for one suspect.

CBS Los Angeles

A woman believed to be about 80 and her nephew, believed to be about 50, were found shot to death at a home in the Upshaw community of Winston County, Ala., Tuesday morning. Police, who discovered the bodies during a welfare check, said the house did not appear to be broken into.

AL.com

A woman was shot multiple times and killed during an argument with another woman near a restaurant in east Atlanta, Ga., Tuesday night. Police believe the victim and the shooter knew each other.

AJC.com

Lisa Armstrong, 47, was found shot to death in the woods off Route 206 inTabernacle Township, N.J., Monday morning. Detectives are investigating.

NJ.com

A 16-year-old girl and a 21-year-old man were wounded in a drive-by shooting in St. Louis, Mo., Tuesday evening. Police said a black Pontiac pulled alongside the victims’ vehicle and several men inside opened fire.

KMOV.com

A woman was shot in the leg while driving on I-75 in Detroit, Mich., Monday night. A passenger in the victim’s car said the suspect followed their car, pulled up alongside and opened fire. Police do not believe the shooting was random.

Detroit Free Press

Deshon Evans, 20, was killed and another man was wounded in a home inMarrero, La., early Tuesday. Police are investigating.

The Times-Picayune

Robert Watson was killed following an argument in West Pike Run Township, Pa., Tuesday morning. Police say the victim attacked Joe Volchek at his home with a pipe, and Volchek shot and killed Watson. The victim was found in a utility shed.

CBS Pittsburgh

63-year-old Roy Leonard McKeehan was shot and killed while trying to protect his daughter from domestic violence in Walker County, Ga., Monday night. Police say 35-year-old Daniel Chad Marks shot the victim, took his adult daughter hostage and led police on a multi-county car chase that ended in Alabama. The victim’s daughter had been in a relationship with Marks for several years.

WRCBTV.com

Sean Wayne Wells, 35, a decorated Fort Bragg soldier, was killed when two men forced their way into his home in west Fayetteville, N.C., Monday night. The victim’s wife said they demanded money and the keys to her car before shooting Wells three times. Police believe the victim and the suspects knew each other. They are at large.

WRAL.com

44-year-old Enrique Santiago was shot and killed during a home invasion inBridgeton, N.J., Monday night. The suspect fled the scene before police arrived.

NJ.com

A man in his 20s was shot and killed in an apartment in midtownSacramento, Calif., early Tuesday. A man and a woman were detained. Police believe the victim and the suspects knew each other.

The Sacramento Bee

An 18-year-old man was found lying in the street with gunshot wounds to the chest and leg in the Dorchester neighborhood of Boston, Mass., Monday night. The victim was able to identify his attacker. A 15-year-old boy was arrested.

Boston.com

Connie Graham, 63, was shot in the chest after an argument with her sister inMontgomery County, Tex., Monday afternoon. Linda Carol Hampton, 59, was arrested and confessed to the shooting.

The Courier

30-year-old Jonathan Graulau ducked into a Camden, N.J., laundromat to avoid gunfire but was shot and fatally wounded Tuesday morning. Police don’t have any suspects and are soliciting tips.

6ABC.com

38-year-old Roger Catalan was found shot to death in Tucson, Ariz., late Monday evening. A gang unit is investigating.

MyFoxPhoenix.com

A 45-year-old man was shot several times at an intersection in Gaffney, N.C., early Tuesday. Witnesses said a black Chrysler pulled up and someone inside fired several shots out the window. The victim refused to cooperate with police.

GoUpstate.com

A man was shot and killed in New Orleans, La., late Monday. The victim was the third homicide on Monday; two more shootings claimed the lives of two other men. Six people have been killed and nine people have been wounded by gun violence in the city in the last seven days.

WWLTV.com

A man was shot in the leg at a motel in Santa Maria, Calif., Tuesday morning. Two men and a woman were thought to be hiding in the motel, prompting an evacuation. Police believe the shooting is gang-related.

SantaMariaTimes.com

20-year-old Curtis Watson was shot and killed at a motel in Egg Harbor Township, N.J., early Tuesday. 21-year-old Randall Scott was arrested at the scene.

NBC40.net

A man was shot in the shoulder and wounded at an apartment in the Yesler Terrace area of Seattle, Wash., Tuesday afternoon. A suspect is being sought.

KOMONews.com

According to Slate’s gun-death tracker, an estimated 9,100 people have died as a result of gun violence in America since the Newtown massacre on December 14, 2012.

Pasted from <http://nocera.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/the-gun-report-october-9-2013/>

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Looks like about 40% of ^those^ are gang related (which no one gives a fuk about), another 35% were shot by criminal thugs whilst committing a crime (which I care VERY deeply about, but being criminals....they usually don't follow the same rules like us good guys do), another 10 or 15% are suicides (whatever, I don't lose sleep over people who wanna kill themselves....no matter how they do it) and the rest just seem like good old fashioned love triangles or little spats 'twixt friends that escalated to gun fire.

 

Oh well, got anything actually important you'd like to post, Jokey?....

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jocal505, on 01 Oct 2013 - 15:12, said:

You are not jacked up by guns but own an arsenal, including a sniper rifle and multiple high capacity mags for a half dozen handguns and rifles.

Got it. No, you don't "got it." You still have yet to explain what I'm "promoting". I have steadfastly and consistently promoted responsible gun ownership, expanded background checks, keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and whackos, and tougher even draconian penalties for those that break the laws wrt to guns.

Jeff, in the enormity of what you and your elk are promoting, your logic is that more guns and more bullets, and more powerful guns and even widely distributed battle weaponry, are all okay. I'm not promoting anything of the sort. But the fact remains that there are ALREADY powerful guns out there. There are thousands of machine guns in the hands of private citizens and they are not used in crime. There are .50 caliber sniper rifles out there and they are not used in crime. There are people with garage full of ammo who do not go out and commit crime or go on shooting sprees. Trust me, you are not going to carry 10K rounds of ammo into a school, or even 5k, or even 1K. It is not uncommon for someone to go through 1K of ammo in a weekend at the range. BUt your average mass shooter is lucky if he is going to have 100 or 200 rounds on his person. Have you ever tried to carry that much rifle ammo? So the amount of ammo one has has fuck all to do with their perceived threat, except in the very rare cases of the David Koresh or Ruby Ridge nutter types.

Then you and your buds make the douchebag move to claim a disconnect between the presence of the loaded, ready, danger-prone things, and disturbed, inebriated, depressed and upset people. Not to mention children. When have I ever claimed that a weapon in the hands of a drunk or mentally unstable person is not dangerous? Or that leaving a loaded gun unsecure around children wasn't dangerous? IN all of those cases, it completely irresponsible. But how do you stop it? Are we going to have the Minority Report Pre-crime up and running anytime soon? No more than we can stop the drunk driver from getting behind the wheel of 7000lb SUV and killing a busload of school children can we keep the drunk from picking up a weapon (gun, knife, bat, unicorn horn, etc) and stopping him from being stupid. I have also long said that we need to harshly hold parents accountable for leaving unsecured guns around for children to find and hurt themselves. Throw them under the jail for all I care.

I'm just calling you on it. Calling me on what exactly? Again, IF YOU EVER FUCKING BOTHERED TO ACTUALLY READ WHAT PEOPLE WRITE HERE, YOU WOULDN'T SAY THAT. Sorry. I have a problem with the body of gun-industry-driven legislation, As do I in some cases and the sub-culture of constitutional fear which has resulted. You fight for guns? Well I fight against 'em. I'm not fighting FOR guns..... I'm fighting for constitutional rights or just rights in general. They are ALL equally important, even the 2A. Lose one, lose all. If you don't like it, then change it. There IS a mechanism for that in case you weren't aware.

Your energetic, gung-ho position for the gun culture is degenerate, dude, and has foul ramifications, IMO. Fuck you, we've had this discussion about your so called "gun culture" and you continually ignore what anyone has to say. If there is a gun culture - it exists with the thugs in the inner cities, the rappers, the media, the video games, the movies and TV. In fact if you want to talk "gun culture", I would say you should be embracing MY gun culture, rather than railing against it. Because us citizens who own guns, use them responsibly every day, and aren't out pounding our chests about all the shit you spew - WE are the ones you ought to be begging your congress critters to talk to rather than alienating us.

My position (to avoid having a weapons-based daily life in the US) is more sane and healthy than your own. Serious question (which I doubt you'll actually answer - how do you suggest we avoid a "weapons based daily life in the US? And could you better define what that means, please?

Thanks for the chance to look into the thoughts of a gun-fixated person, though. You're welcome. I hope you actually paid attention this time and actually learned something for a change.

Pasted from <http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=142774&page=21#entry4332818>

 

 

Jeff, I don't live on this forum: the air is too close and smells like gun-guy masturbation. You jokers practice your mental backflips here. Well, I have noted the general positions of our usual suspects..

 

Look, the fact that only three of us here speak out against the NRA is all I need to know, duh. Your own written convolutions notwithstanding, your bottom line is apparent. You support guns and take pleasure in personal battle weaponry. You don't want AR's limited; you defend silencers and high-capacity magazines, thus promoting them. On a SAILOR FORUM. You drag every conversation into convenient minutiae and statistical anomalies to justify guns, ad nauseam.

You may have an audience in the choirboys, but no, I'm not clapping.

 

As far as my "MO", you called it. You guys want to wrestle, and are abusive by nature. I have taken to sniper behavior.

Anyway, peace to you, JBSF, our resident gun genius.

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<SNIP>

Guy, ultimately the finer side of the human experience (to develop civilized behavior) may triumph. That is your dream and your conviction. I share the dream and conviction with you. I find your thoughts and your position quite inspiring to me personally. When they call you Unicorn Boi wear the title proudly, my friend, but you are about 200 years ahead of your time.

Today, it is just evolution, and it's not an absolute. And now the second amendment has become a player for the USA. I feel I must speak up because at this point I perceive that gun enthusiasm is misplaced, and the gun lobby is without control.

 

Guy, you seem to be stuck in an "either/or" mental framework, as are many involved in our discussion. We can coax non-violent behavior from humans while also limiting dangerous objects, including guns.

 

<SNIP>

 

Partner - I'm not stuck in an either/or, it's just that I feel that prohibition as an approach doesn't work, and that effort expended on inefficacious bandaids would be better spent on real solutions to real problems. How's the "war on drugs" been going for us? If prohibition was the answer to everything, then why are we allowed to build vehicles that will exceed the maximum safe highway speed limit? Why can we purchase more alcohol than we can legally drink at a single setting? Why, why why? It's because we address the problems that are rooted in undesirable behavior by regulating the behaviors!

 

It's illegal to intentionally attack anyone for any reason other than self defense. To ensure that those attacks don't happen, do we prohibit the existence of things that can be used in an attack? What about the dangerous chemicals that are used in everyday life, but, that have disastrous impacts to our ecology? Do we outlaw them, or regulate their use?

 

The problem you're trying to solve is worthwhile, but, the solution isn't in padding the corners of our existence.

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Robert Watson was killed following an argument in West Pike Run Township, Pa., Tuesday morning. Police say the victim attacked Joe Volchek at his home with a pipe, and Volchek shot and killed Watson. The victim was found in a utility shed.

—CBS Pittsburgh

 

 

CBS Pittsburgh sounds really confused about who the crime victim was in that case, if that's how they wrote the story.

 

Attacking people with pipes is bad. Defending yourself against pipe nutter attacks is not bad and does not magically turn an aggressive pipe nutter into a "victim" just because he lost the fight he started.

 

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Robert Watson was killed following an argument in West Pike Run Township, Pa., Tuesday morning. Police say the victim attacked Joe Volchek at his home with a pipe, and Volchek shot and killed Watson. The victim was found in a utility shed.

—CBS Pittsburgh

 

 

CBS Pittsburgh sounds really confused about who the crime victim was in that case, if that's how they wrote the story.

 

Attacking people with pipes is bad. Defending yourself against pipe nutter attacks is not bad and does not magically turn an aggressive pipe nutter into a "victim" just because he lost the fight he started.

 

 

 

Now don't go getting JokeAwf started on a a 'pipe violence culture' tangent.....or we'll be here for years.....

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tater-cannon.jpg

 

 

You're a ticking time bomb, Mr. Ray......

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What spooks me is the tazer. You can easily set off a potato cannon with a BBQ sparker, but Tom uses a personal tazer. That's whack.

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What spooks me is the tazer. You can easily set off a potato cannon with a BBQ sparker, but Tom uses a personal tazer. That's whack.

 

 

Both of you need to watch Burn Notice more often....

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Hey jocal, please stop ignoring the question: DO YOU STILL OWN A GUN?

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What spooks me is the tazer. You can easily set off a potato cannon with a BBQ sparker, but Tom uses a personal tazer. That's whack.

 

 

If it makes you feel any better, it's my brother who is whack. A regular PVC pipe nutter.

 

All the tater cannons I have built have used grill lighters as triggers. Those cheap little piezo electric sparks are unreliable and the fuel/air mixture in a tater cannon combustion chamber only stays mixed for so long. My bro decided he wanted a SPARK, DAMMIT, not just a spark, so he built that one with a tazer ignition. It is a lot more reliable and also safer, since accidentally setting it off would be nearly impossible.

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What spooks me is the tazer. You can easily set off a potato cannon with a BBQ sparker, but Tom uses a personal tazer. That's whack.

 

 

If it makes you feel any better, it's my brother who is whack. A regular PVC pipe nutter.

 

All the tater cannons I have built have used grill lighters as triggers. Those cheap little piezo electric sparks are unreliable and the fuel/air mixture in a tater cannon combustion chamber only stays mixed for so long. My bro decided he wanted a SPARK, DAMMIT, not just a spark, so he built that one with a tazer ignition. It is a lot more reliable and also safer, since accidentally setting it off would be nearly impossible.

Tater cannons have been classified as mortars in my neck of the woods. Gets the sheriff all riled up if you toss a few spuds. Not worth jeopardizing my ability to apply for a CCW in the future.

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What spooks me is the tazer. You can easily set off a potato cannon with a BBQ sparker, but Tom uses a personal tazer. That's whack.

 

 

If it makes you feel any better, it's my brother who is whack. A regular PVC pipe nutter.

 

All the tater cannons I have built have used grill lighters as triggers. Those cheap little piezo electric sparks are unreliable and the fuel/air mixture in a tater cannon combustion chamber only stays mixed for so long. My bro decided he wanted a SPARK, DAMMIT, not just a spark, so he built that one with a tazer ignition. It is a lot more reliable and also safer, since accidentally setting it off would be nearly impossible.

Tater cannons have been classified as mortars in my neck of the woods. Gets the sheriff all riled up if you toss a few spuds. Not worth jeopardizing my ability to apply for a CCW in the future.

 

You gotta be kidding me?!?

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Guest One of Five

 

 

 

What spooks me is the tazer. You can easily set off a potato cannon with a BBQ sparker, but Tom uses a personal tazer. That's whack.

 

 

If it makes you feel any better, it's my brother who is whack. A regular PVC pipe nutter.

 

All the tater cannons I have built have used grill lighters as triggers. Those cheap little piezo electric sparks are unreliable and the fuel/air mixture in a tater cannon combustion chamber only stays mixed for so long. My bro decided he wanted a SPARK, DAMMIT, not just a spark, so he built that one with a tazer ignition. It is a lot more reliable and also safer, since accidentally setting it off would be nearly impossible.

Tater cannons have been classified as mortars in my neck of the woods. Gets the sheriff all riled up if you toss a few spuds. Not worth jeopardizing my ability to apply for a CCW in the future.

 

You gotta be kidding me?!?

 

 

We used to launch potatoes across the harbor in Rye. Great fun.

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What spooks me is the tazer. You can easily set off a potato cannon with a BBQ sparker, but Tom uses a personal tazer. That's whack.

 

 

If it makes you feel any better, it's my brother who is whack. A regular PVC pipe nutter.

 

All the tater cannons I have built have used grill lighters as triggers. Those cheap little piezo electric sparks are unreliable and the fuel/air mixture in a tater cannon combustion chamber only stays mixed for so long. My bro decided he wanted a SPARK, DAMMIT, not just a spark, so he built that one with a tazer ignition. It is a lot more reliable and also safer, since accidentally setting it off would be nearly impossible.

Tater cannons have been classified as mortars in my neck of the woods. Gets the sheriff all riled up if you toss a few spuds. Not worth jeopardizing my ability to apply for a CCW in the future.

 

You gotta be kidding me?!?

 

 

I have heard they are illegal in a lot of places. Anyone who is scared of a tater gun would probably piss themselves if they learned about the real pipe nutters: competitors in the air cannon division at Punkin Chunkin.

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911 changed everything. In my neck of the woods its considered a mortar because it uses explosive gas to propel a projectile greater than 1 inch diameter. At least that was what the sheriff told us when he confiscated ours. Your laws my vary.

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illegal in california, but you knew that.

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Brass knuckle nutter hired to attack gun nutter shot and killed. The story is light on details, but normal gun nutters do not usually have brass knuckle nutters hired to attack them. On a hunch, I'm leaving off the sarcasm font for that guy.

 

Wasted nutter breaks into home of octogenarian gun nutters, gets shot.

 

Gun nutter finds two intruders in his home, shoots and hits one, they leave and are soon caught by police

 

Baseball bat nutter breaks into ex-girlfriend gun nutter's house, beats and threatens to kill her, gets shot

 

Teenager breaks into 75 year old gun nutter's house and attacks him, gets shot

 

Gun nutter fires warning shot at thief nutter, who comes toward him and gets shot again. Like many others, he was later caught at a hospital. He responded to a warning shot by going toward the shooter? Hmm...

 

Those are all more or less ordinary tales of nutters and nutters engaged in self-defense, but this last one deserves some thought.

 

Gun nutter engaged in legal self-defense accidentally shoots bystander

 

That happened in S. Carolina and the nutter "successfully argued that he is not subject to criminal or civil liability under the state’s self-defense immunity law."

 

Their self-defense law is similar to Florida's but what the guy did was legal there and might not be here. I don't think it would be smart anywhere, so no sarcasm font for him.

 

The general rule is that if you commit a crime and someone gets hurt in the course of that crime, it's your fault, no matter who did the actual hurting nor who was hurt. It's a good rule and they applied it in this case, but it conflicts with another good rule: if you pull a trigger, you're responsible for each round that leaves the barrel.

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911 changed everything. In my neck of the woods its considered a mortar because it uses explosive gas to propel a projectile greater than 1 inch diameter. At least that was what the sheriff told us when he confiscated ours. Your laws my vary.

 

That stinks for you guys - isn't prohibition applied w/out exception great?

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911 changed everything. In my neck of the woods its considered a mortar because it uses explosive gas to propel a projectile greater than 1 inch diameter. At least that was what the sheriff told us when he confiscated ours. Your laws my vary.

 

That stinks for you guys - isn't prohibition applied w/out exception great?

Probably for the best. Its all fun and games until someone loses an eye.

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911 changed everything. In my neck of the woods its considered a mortar because it uses explosive gas to propel a projectile greater than 1 inch diameter. At least that was what the sheriff told us when he confiscated ours. Your laws my vary.

 

That stinks for you guys - isn't prohibition applied w/out exception great?

Probably for the best. Its all fun and games until someone loses an eye.

 

 

Yeah, you probably need a slingshot ban to go along with it.

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Here's some interesting background leading up to the (watered down) Manchin-Tooney bill, which failed in April.

 

 

Firestorm erupts over story about Gottlieb and background checks

February 20, 2013

Tempers went ballistic in the firearms community Wednesday morning when the Seattle Timesreported that gun rights advocate Alan Gottlieb was negotiating with state lawmakers on so-called “universal background checks.”

On one forum, he was branded a “traitor.” On another, it was alleged that a “sell-out” is “in the works.” Elsewhere, one might think that Gottlieb was the anti-Christ. Even the Seattle Times reader section contains some nasty remarks.

It all has to do with House Bill 1588, against which Gottlieb testified while sitting next to the National Rifle Association’s savvy veteran lobbyist Brian Judy last week. In Gottlieb’s opinion, the measure in its original form “stunk.” It was after the hearing that Gottlieb and Rep. Mike Hope (R-Lake Stevens) had a long conversation.

Gottlieb, founder of the Bellevue-based Second Amendment Foundation and chairman of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, subsequently talked with Hope again, but that discussion is not as close to producing a done deal as the Seattle Times story intimated. One might compare it to the time that Samuel Clemens wrote, “The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.”

Phones have been ringing non-stop at Gottlieb’s Liberty Park complex since early Wednesday morning, and a stream of e-mails – many apparently written by people who did not read the Times article but only picked up on conversations on gun rights forums – have been stinging.

Last month, people were calling him a hero for forcing the City of Oak Harbor to erase a long-standing city parks gun ban ordinance under threat of a lawsuit. He was cheered last year for beating the City of Seattle on its attempt to ban firearms from city park facilities, and undo the state’s model preemption law in the process. In 2010, he was virtually canonized for having filed the landmark lawsuit that led to the Second Amendment’s incorporation to the states by the U.S. Supreme Court in McDonald v. City of Chicago.

Now, because he has participated in a give-and-take discussion about background checks, he’s suddenly a pariah.

Then, again, maybe he isn’t.

Gottlieb may actually hold all the cards in the gun rights debate in Olympia, and he’s a pretty shrewd poker player. Before even considering supporting any kind of expansion of the current background check law, the state would have to make serious concessions, he told Examiner. The Seattle Times article portrayed the situation thusly: “To support it now, Gottlieb is requesting several tweaks, including asking state officials to conduct the checks, not the feds.”

Those “tweaks” include something monumental: Destruction of Washington state’s long-standing handgun registry, a database that has existed for years on every retail handgun purchase. For those gun owners who did not realize this, when a potential buyer fills out paperwork at a gun store, in addition to the federal Form 4473 which is done for the background check, there is a State of Washington Pistol Transfer Application.

One copy goes to local law enforcement and the other goes to the state Department of Licensing, where the record is kept. Under Gottlieb’s proposal, that would cease to exist.

Another concession would be an exemption from background checks for any state resident possessing a concealed pistol license (CPL). Also, no checks would be required for firearms transfers between family members.

In addition, according to Gottlieb, “If you are a member of an organization like the Washington Arms Collectors who does a background check for membership, you would be exempt from additional checks to buy a firearm at their gun shows.” His full statement is below.

Some political insiders have privately suggested that Gottlieb’s maneuver is nothing short of brilliant. On the outside chance this measure should become law, it would be the first time in memory that a state gun registry would be abolished. “That,” said Gottlieb, “would be huge.” Right now, he is waiting to see a substitute measure that includes all of his requirements, and a non-severability clause, meaning that if one section of the law goes down, it all goes down.

Gottlieb does not believe legislative anti-gunners will go along with his provisions, and will kill the bill. If so, the political blood will be on their hands, he says. Gun owners made a legitimate offer and anti-gunners slapped it away because they wanted something for nothing; all “take” and no “give.”

Historically, that has been the pattern with any gun control effort. The prohibition lobby has expected gun owners to roll over for every demand and expect nothing in return, and then insisted that they are being “reasonable” against an "extremist gun lobby." As this column noted, Evergreen State gun rights advocates are pushing back this session in Olympia. Gottlieb’s proposal just might reveal who the real extremists are.

Alan Gottlieb’s statement:

“First you should know that I do not support Washington House Bill 1588 as it is currently written.

“My support for a state universal background check bill must include a substantial victory for gun owners that includes, but is not limited to repealing, prohibiting and destroying the current state handgun registration system and the data base of several million records of gun owners and their firearms that include the type of handguns and the serial numbers.

“This would be a huge victory for our gun rights. We would be the first state to repeal a gun registration system. Think about that and what it means for your privacy as a gun owner and the fact that we all know historically that registration leads to confiscation.

“In addition, if you have a carry permit you will be exempt from additional background checks. No checks would be required for transfers between family members. If you are a member of an organization like the Washington Arms Collectors that does a background check for membership, you would be exempt from additional checks to buy a firearm at their gun shows.

“There are other inclusions that must be made as well that are good for our rights and freedom that need to be in a final bill to have my support.

“My guess is that the gun grabbers will not go along with these provisions and kill the bill. If they do the “blood” so to speak is on their hands, not ours.

“There are other smart, tactical, political and morally justified reasons why I have taken this position that I do not want to make public at this time. We do have enemies and I am not going to telegraph our strategy to them by spelling out our battle plans.

“I enjoy winning our freedoms more than the fight. I wish I can say that about some of my critics who have pre-judged without knowledge what it is that I am doing.

“Anyone who knows me knows that for the past forty years my efforts have expanded and protected our right to keep and bear arms from local city councils all the way to the United States Supreme Court.”

Alan Gottlieb

===========================================

Pasted from <http://www.examiner.com/article/firestorm-erupts-over-story-about-ccrkba-and-background-checks>

 

After a few months, it gets even more interesting...

 

Gun Rights Group: ‘Gun Grabbers Have Stepped Into Our Trap’

“If you read the bill, you can see all the advances for our cause that it contains like interstate sales of handguns,

veteran gun rights restoration,

travel with firearms protection,

civil and criminal immunity lawsuit protection if you sell a gun plus more,”

Gottlieb said in his statement. “It also exempts the sale or transfer of firearms between family members and friends as well as sales outside a commercial venue from a background check. If you have any kind of current state permit to own, use or carry, no check is done, just the Form 4473 to stay with a dealer.”

By Laura Matthews | April 14 2013 11:41 PM

A gun-rights group that had a hand in developing the recent bipartisan measure on background checks in the U.S. Senate said gun grabbers walked into its trap and that it would take pleasure in seeing President Barack Obama sign the bill.

The Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms on Sunday endorsed the agreement brokered last week by Sens. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., and Pat Toomey, R-Pa.

In an email to the IB Times on Sunday, Alan Gottlieb, chairman of the committee, explained that he and the group’s attorney lobbyist not only influenced the bipartisan legislation but also wrote parts of it.

Pasted from <http://www.dailypaul.com/281823/alert-alan-gottlieb-of-2a-fdn-publicly-admits-to-crafting-the-toomey-manchin-univ-gun-registry-bill>

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Now here's a good look at Mr. Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation and other mischief.

I dedicate the posting to our guy Tom Ray.

 

 

 

'For us' said Mr. Gottlieb...'the environmental movement has become the perfect bogeyman.'

Pasted from <http://web.archive.org/web/20041020122541/http://www.clearproject.org/reports_cdfe.html>

 

Alan Gottlieb: The Merchant of Fear

by Jim Halpin and Paul de Armond

©1994, 1995 Jim Halpin, Paul de Armond

 

Pasted from <http://www.sweetliberty.org/mof.htm>

Despite appearances, Gottlieb is a buccaneering entrepreneur with a remarkable knack for cashing in big on right-wing causes. "I am," he says, "the premiere anti-communist, free-enterprise, laissez-faire capitalist," He is also:

  • President and founder of the Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise, which in 1988 launched the Wise Use Movement, today the most powerful anti-environmental force in the country. Wise Use Movement groups are now active in every state, indeed, in nearly every county, in America. Wise Use's clout in Congress has grown so much in the past year that it has been able to halt all pending environmental legislation in this session.
  • President of two non-profit corporations which form the most potent pro-gun force in the country, outside of the National Rifle Association. The two non profits are the Second Amendment Foundation and the Citizens's Committee For the Right to Keep and Bear arms.
  • A master fund raiser for conservative causes and candidates -- the most successful one outside Washington, D.C.
  • A member of the board of governors on the powerful and ultra-secretive Council for National Policy. Front Lines Research, a Planned Parenthood magazine called the CNP, "the central leadership network of the far right in the United States." Membership is secret but is known to include such familiar right wing stalwarts as CNP president, Former Attorney General Edwin Meese, Paul Weyrich, founding president of the Heritage Foundation, Jerry Falwell and Oliver North.
  • Sole proprietor of a profitable right wing publishing complex which writes, edits and distributes conservative books and magazines.
  • Owner of KBNP, a business radio station in Portland, and Chairman of the Board of the Talk America Radio Network which has 196 affiliated radio stations across the nation. In Seattle, the Talk America affiliate is King-AM.
  • A convicted felon. In 1984, Gottlieb pleaded guilty to underpaying income tax returns by $17,000 and served ten months in Federal prison.

In Trashing the Economy, the 1993 book he and his co-author, CDFE Vice President Ron Arnold write with startling frankness that:

"The message of the direct mail letter must appeal to three base emotions; Fear, Hate and Revenge…

"[The] fund raising mailer must present you with a crisis -- a problem won't do...That crisis must frighten you...If you are not frightened, you won't send money…

"Then the direct mail letter must present you with a bogeyman against whom to focus your anger…

"Once you've been frightened and made to hate the bogeyman, the successful direct mail appeal must offer you a way to get revenge against the bogeyman -- the payoff for your contribution. The more soul-satisfying the revenge, the better the letter pulls.

"All this must be dressed up in an appeal that appears to have a high moral tone, but which -- without you realizing it -- works on your lower emotions."

Gottlieb and Arnold are describing environmental direct-mail pitches but Arnold in an interview on Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise, also told us that "in direct mail, fear, hate and revenge go a long way."

 

Apparently deception also goes a long way. In June 1994, Gottlieb sent a mass mailing that appeared to come directly from Rep. Philip M. Crane ® of Illinois, though the postmark was Bellevue. The envelope bore a replica of the Congressional seal and in large, bold letters identified the sender as: The Honorable Philip M. Crane Rep. Crane, Member of Congress. The return address, however was Bellevue.

 

The letter inside bore Congressman Crane's signature.

"Dear Friends," the letter started off, "I recently asked Alan Gottlieb, Chairman of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, for the names of a few selected Americans with whom I could communicate directly on a matter of great importance to our gun rights.

Yours was one of the names Alan gave me.

Will you join with me and U. S. Senators Bob Dole, Orrin Hatch, Trent Lott, Don Nickles and other distinguished Americans as a member of the National Advisory Council of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms?

After telling the reader that "over a 100 members of the United States Congress serve" on the advisory council, the letter warns in upper case that "ANTI-GUN FORCES NOW CONTROL THE WHITE HOUSE AND BOTH THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND THE UNITED STATES SENATE."

 

"I'm amazed," reads another paragraph, "that many gun owners I talk to don't seem to understand that handgun ban laws are the first steps toward stripping Americans of their right to own and use all firearms."

 

The Crane letter contains an intimidating questionnaire which, among other things, demands an "X" before one of two questions:

[] YES, I'll help you in this urgent battle by rushing you my most generous contribution today: [$20 to $500].

[] NO, even though the powerful "ban the gun" crowd is at this very moment mounting an attack on my gun rights, I can't join your National Advisory Council

Gottlieb's direct response letters often contain surveys with loaded questions like:

Would you use a gun to protect yourself, your family or your home from armed attack?

"Most anti-gun advocates claim that gun owners are primarily responsible for violent crime, do you agree?"

(snipped)

 

Gottlieb enrolled at the University of Tennessee in 1966 when the Vietnam War and student protests were heating up. His mother believes the anti-war movement's tactics shocked her son so much that it turned him into a conservative. "I think it was all the riots that were taking place on campus with the Vietnam War," said Sherry. "He disapproved of the manner in which they were rioting and carrying on."

 

Seymour says that the rioting was part of the reason for his son's conversion but that "mainly it was the SDS in school, the Students for a Democratic Society, the communists...You know they wanted to close the school at one time, and he didn't like that because here was his father working two jobs so he could go to college...So...Alan and a couple of other students...instituted a suit...and they had the school kept open. And that's when he turned, at that time, because he was a tremendous liberal before...Liberalism to him wasn't any good anymore because if they could do what they did by just opening their mouths, it was just a little too much. "

 

Although Alan disapproved of students protesting the Vietnam War, he was no more anxious than they were to get into it. "We kept him out of it," says Sherry. "Yeah, we got him into the National Guard. My husband did." Seymour says he, "didn't exactly get him into the Guard, but you know, I worked for the government and a lot of sites had openings."

 

(snipped)

 

In 1972, Young Americans for Freedom gave Gottlieb a bigger job, this time in Seattle. He was responsible for running the eleven-state region for YAF. He also directed the national office of an ad-hoc YAF group called the Students Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

 

Gottlieb recalled,"...I saw there was a vacuum and a void, in the gun movement, there was the NRA and at the time, it was 1971, early 72, at the time the NRA didn't have a registered lobbyist in Washington, D.C. The NRA considered that lobbying was that you write an article in your magazine and that ...would get... [the readers] all excited and [they would] write Congress. And congress never got such mail in their life and it was considered to be successful."

 

(snipped)

 

In February 1983, Gottlieb got an all expense paid trip to Jamaica to attend a conference put on by CAUSA. CAUSA is Spanish for "cause", but it stands for the Confederation of Associations for the Unification of the Societies of the Americas. Founded in Mexico City by Col. Bo Hi Pak (Rev. Sun Myong Moon's chief lieutenant) and Kim Sang In, the former Korean Central Intelligence Agency station chief in Mexico City, CAUSA was the Rev. Moon's multinational anti-communist and political organization. CAUSA served as the vehicle for Rev. Moon's funding of the New Right, as well as for supporting the Reagan administration's military build-up and its cause celebre, the Nicaraguan contras.

 

 

Gottlieb says, "The only thing I ever did with CAUSA was attend one of their conferences. I was invited to, all expenses paid, a conference in Jamaica [in February, 1983] that discussed the threat of communism in South and Latin America and had leaders from all political persuasions, all parties, all religions, all sorts of ministers.... About the only thing I remember was that my seat-mate next to me was Eldridge Cleaver."

 

Gregory McDonald, who was Executive Director of the Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise and Executive Director of the Second Amendment Foundation, says otherwise. In a lengthy telephone interview with Eastsideweek, McDonald said, "Bo Hi Pak was in our office several times. ...in '83." McDonald says that Pak was in the Liberty Park office "at least four times, that I can remember."

 

"I was introduced to him, briefly, once, just as I was walking down the hall," McDonald recalls, "But they would go into Alan's office and the door would be closed. He'd come in a limo and have with him, oh, three or four Korean people and they'd go into Alan's office." McDonald says that he did not know what CAUSA was until Gottlieb sent him to a conference: "He sent me down to San Francisco, in August, three weeks before I was fired [from SAF and CDFE] to attend it and I left in disgust. ...CAUSA or Causa, however it is pronounced, it is scary. It is an indoctrination session. And they had people staking out every table. ...I was offended. I thought it was manipulative and brainwashing. And I thought it was-- There was just too much money, too much stuff for it to be legitimate. I didn't want any part of it, so... [we] left the meetings."

 

(snipped)

 

Shortly after the February 1983 Causa conference, 1983, Gottlieb became involved in a watershed gun-control controversy. A proposed federal law would make armor-piercing pistol ammunition illegal. Gottlieb, as president of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, opposed the legislation. The ammunition in question was dubbed "cop killer" ammunition because the Teflon-coated bullets could penetrate the equivalent of four Kevlar bullet-proof vests. The bullets were popular with some sports shooters because of the higher muzzle energy and velocity. These features give the ammunition a longer range and flatter trajectory. This made them very attractive for silhouette shooters, who aim at small metal targets over relatively long ranges. The lubrication provided by the Teflon was also supposed to cause less wear and tear on gun barrels.

 

Gottlieb, in his role as the national chairman of the Citizen's Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, was quoted in the Seattle Times as saying, "Most people who propose gun control legislation know absolutely nothing about guns or ballistics." Gottlieb's position is very straightforward: he is against gun control. "It's not that we're against protection for cops," Gottlieb said, "but this is a backdoor approach to gun control."

 

Law enforcement authorities, which had been allies of the gun lobby, took a stand in favor of the new law. In the same Times article, Sgt. Fred Hill of the Seattle Police Department stated, "It's an emotional issue with policemen because they feel it's one more thing that can be used against them." The law banning the armor-piercing ammunition passed. With this debate, the separation of police groups and the gun lobby began.

 

Gottlieb sees his role in gun issues as having an influence on the NRA. "I'm kind of the gun lobby's lobby. I prod them a whole lot. What happens is that things get innovated here and the NRA is then forced to copy it. A good example is the whole woman [sic] and guns issue. Other examples could be making the gun movement more of a civil-rights type thing, than a politically sportsmen's, you know, sportsmen's use of guns. We've made it more of civil rights debate," he explains.

 

(snipped)

 

The following year, 1984, was not a good one for Gottlieb. For openers, a federal grand jury indicted him on two counts of filing false income tax returns and neglecting to pay $40,000 in taxes for 1977 and 1978. He eventually admitted to underpaying by $17,000. He was fined $5,000 and sentenced to 366 days in a minimum security jail in Spokane. As jails go, it wasn't a bad place and anyway he was released every morning to do work-release fund raising for the local YMCA.

 

The branch director of the Spokane YMCA, Mary Harnetiaux, told Eastsideweek in an telephone interview, that according to long-time employees: "History and legend has it, that as they recall, he was part of a work release program from Geiger Correctional. He was here to put together a [fundraising] campaign, but nothing came of it. He was here a very short time, less than three months and he didn't spend a lot of time in the building."

 

Meanwhile back at Liberty Park, things were happening that would make jail time seem like a paid vacation. In Gottlieb's absence, seven employees had been going through his books and had concluded that for some time he had been mismanaging the Second Amendment Foundation. Speaking in a telephone interview, Greg McDonald, former head of the SAF, told how he and all the SAF employees attempted "ask the court to appoint a court receiver to manage the foundation."

 

On Labor Day of 1984, the cops were called to Liberty Park after a scuffle broke out between McDonald's faction and Gottlieb family members. McDonald's group had filed a summons and complaint that day requesting that Gottlieb show why a receiver should not be appointed. Later, when more information came to light, they filed federal charges against Gottlieb for "racketeering and conspiracy to defraud" contributors.

 

Arnold minded the store at CDFE until Gottlieb was released from prison in the summer of 1985. That same year Gottlieb joined the Council for National Policy. He is proud enough of his membership to list it in Who's Who in America.

 

The Council for National Policy is one of the most powerful and secretive right wing organizations in the country. First coming to national attention in the Iran-Contra scandal, when Lt. Col. Oliver North's remarks to a CNP gathering in Nashville were leaked to the Washington Post. In the ensuing controversy over North's fundraising for the Contras, numerous members of the CNP were involved.

 

The secrecy that surrounds the group has only slowly been peeled away. The CNP was started in 1981 by former Rep. Larry McDonald (D-GA) and Californian William Cies, both leaders of the John Birch Society. They in turn recruited Dr. Tim LaHaye, a leader of the Moral Majority in California, to be the first president. The CNP sees itself as the conservative alternative to the establishment Council on Foreign Relations.

 

CNP members must be approved by a unanimous vote of the current executive committee. Some of the people that approved Gottlieb's membership included the three past presidents of the CNP: Thomas F. Ellis, a former director of the Pioneer Fund, which supports efforts to prove that blacks are genetically inferior to whites (Ellis later distanced himself from his racist past); Nelson Bunker Hunt, silver speculator and member of the John Birch Society's national council; and Dr. Tim LaHaye, the founding president.

 

Political researcher Fred Clarkson sees the CNP as being the "central leadership network of the far right in the United States." The CNP has a policy of keeping nearly everything about the organization secret. At a CNP gathering in St. Louis in October 1993, executive director Morton C. Blackwell distributed a memo to all attendees that cautioned them that "Council meetings are closed to the media and general public. The media should not know when or where we meet or who takes part in our programs, before or after a meeting." The memo concludes "We have these rules for your benefit and to allow open, uninhibited remarks from our speakers."

 

The current president of the CNP is Edwin Meese III. Oliver North is on the current Executive Committee that vets all proposed members, as are Holland "Holly" Coors, Edwind J. Feulner (head of the Heritage Foundation), Howard Phillips (of the US Taxpayers Party and the Conservative Caucus) and Richard DeVos (president of the Amway Corporation). Former presidents of CNP include Thomas Ellis, Nelson Bunker Hunt, Richard DeVos, and Pat Robertson.

 

(snipped)

 

Gottlieb's Second Amendment Foundation raised ($42000) by using the name of Bernard Goetz in a telephone campaign.

 

Goetz rose to national prominence in December 1984 for shooting four black youths in a New York subway. In May 1985, Gottlieb complied with a request from Goetz's attorneys to cease and desist using Goetz's name in fund raising efforts by the Second Amendment Foundation. The SAF had been soliciting donations by telephone for the "Citizens' Self-Defense Fund." Supposedly, the money would be earmarked for the defense of people like Goetz. Mike Kenyon of the SAF at first told the Seattle Times that "only $10,000 or $12,000" had been raised. When the paper contacted Joseph Kellner, Goetz's attorney, he said that the amount reported to him by Kenyon was actually $42,000. Kenyon later admitted that the larger amount was correct. Kellner said that he was not implying any wrongdoing on the part of the SAF. Noting that several unauthorized fundraising operations were underway nationwide, Kellner said, "We cannot have any part of it. We have no way of knowing whether the money that is collected will got to Mr. Goetz, and the only honorable thing to do is to have nothing to do with it."

 

(snipped)

 

Later that year, Gottlieb and Arnold had a visitor at Liberty Park, Dr. Robert Grant of Christian Voice. Grant came with a proposal to form a political group called the American Freedom Coalition.

 

The American Freedom Coalition was Rev. Sun Myong Moon's latest political venture. According to a March 27, 1989 article in U.S. News and World Report, on New Year's day, 1987, Rev Moon told his Unification Church followers that he wanted to expand the church's political influence. The AFC was the vehicle for that expansion.

 

(snipped)

1989 was not lacking in Gottlieb's favorite issue: guns. In this case, Seattle's Mayor Charles Royer balked at a recently enacted state law that required the police to auction off unclaimed guns. Royer told the Seattle Times that "We're sending a terrible message when the police do an admirable job of apprehending and disarming criminals. And then we watch those same firearms being sold by the police back to the community. No officer wants to be staring down the barrel of a gun he or she confiscated just a few months ago."

 

Gottlieb called Royer's comments "nice emotional rhetoric" and got blasted the following day in a Times' editorial which stated that "Predictably, the pro-gun forces weighed in with some naive responses."

 

The KTW Teflon bullet issue had started the breach between the gun lobby and the police. Now it was out in the open. When John Hinkley emptied his revolver at Ronald Reagan, the political damage to the gun lobby was immense, but very slow to happen. Sarah Brady's efforts at gun control, which came to fruition last spring in the passage of the Brady Bill, did not go unnoticed by Gottlieb.

 

In 1990, two years before Wise Use started to show a sizeable cash flow, Gottlieb ran a national ad campaign that demanded that "Sarah Brady Stop Lying." Mrs. Brady is the wife of former White House press secretary John Brady, who was permanently disabled in the 1981 assassination attempt on President Ronald Reagan. She has spearheaded gun control as a national issue for the last decade.

 

(snipped)

 

Gottlieb looks back on this episode as an example of his leadership of the gun lobby. He says, "We're totally independent [from the NRA]. We share intelligence information. We let them know what districts we think might, something might be able to happen or some congressman is doing what. ...our materials, a lot of our materials probably is what helped, and meetings, helped against [sic] Jolene Unsoeld. [it] is an example, that we were right on the issue. The NRA was spending money against Jolene Unsoeld, years ago, we had to pump the NRA, 'Stop spending your money there. It's not a good place to spend your money.' Jolene now agrees with us. She understands the issue."

 

(snipped)

 

A month later, on January 13, the Boston Globe quoted Arnold as saying "We are sick to death of environmentalism and so we shall destroy it. We will not allow our right to own property to be stripped from us by a bunch of eco-fascists."

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Hey jocal, please stop ignoring the question: DO YOU STILL OWN A GUN?

 

 

Yes, Jeff, I still have my .22 rifle. I had a modest gun collection at age 12.

I am a once-proud gun owner, and speak as such.

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Hey jocal, please stop ignoring the question: DO YOU STILL OWN A GUN?

 

 

Yes, Jeff, I still have my .22 rifle. I had a modest gun collection at age 12.

I am a once-proud gun owner, and speak as such.

I have a 12 gauge double barrel side by side. Jed Clampett style. Don't know the make or model, don't care. Its old. The stock is split so we don't shoot it.

Also have a 12 gauge pump. Winchester 1910 model I think. Nice gun. Great for skeet shoots.

Also have a 22 long rifle bolt action. Don't know the brand, don't care. But it shoots well and straight. Taken out a raccoon and one annoying tree rat with it.

Also have a Daisy air rifle pump action. Its great for chasing off wood peckers. I did kill a vole who was annoying my dog with it.

Got all the guns from my dad who got most of them from his dad. I'll give them to my son.

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Hey jocal, please stop ignoring the question: DO YOU STILL OWN A GUN?

 

 

Yes, Jeff, I still have my .22 rifle. I had a modest gun collection at age 12.

I am a once-proud gun owner, and speak as such.

I have a 12 gauge double barrel side by side. Jed Clampett style. Don't know the make or model, don't care. Its old. The stock is split so we don't shoot it.

Also have a 12 gauge pump. Winchester 1910 model I think. Nice gun. Great for skeet shoots.

Also have a 22 long rifle bolt action. Don't know the brand, don't care. But it shoots well and straight. Taken out a raccoon and one annoying tree rat with it.

Also have a Daisy air rifle pump action. Its great for chasing off wood peckers. I did kill a vole who was annoying my dog with it.

Got all the guns from my dad who got most of them from his dad. I'll give them transfer them to a dealer who will do a background check and then transfer them to my son.

 

Fixed. At least, I assume that's what you meant, since you believe that is the right thing to do.

 

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I was never proud of owning a gun. It's basically a useless possession.

with your knowledge and skill set, that's no surprise.

actually, i am glad you got rid of it. you could have shot yourself................

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Dumbass felon tries to get dealers to sell to him at gun show, gets 9 month sentence

 

He probably believed that there is some "gun show loophole" or something, or maybe believed that gun dealers will jump at the chance to make illegal sales.


According to a summary of evidence, Reaves, who now lives in Richmond, tried to persuade numerous federally licensed firearms dealers to sell him a gun privately and without a background check at the Showmasters gun show July 7 at the Richmond Raceway Complex.

 

The dealers refused and alerted state trooper D.M. Sottile, who eventually identified Reaves and arrested him after determining he had a felony record.

 

Cerullo, a former police officer who prosecutes many of Henrico’s gun crimes, said the case is indicative of the cooperation between firearms dealers at gun shows and state police to prevent guns from falling into the wrong hands.

 

Felons, and in many cases people with misdemeanor convictions, are prohibited by law from buying or possessing firearms. So are people who have been involuntarily committed for mental illness.

 

Sottile and other state troopers have developed a rapport with firearms dealers at Virginia gun shows, and those relationships have helped reduce illegal gun sales, authorities said.

 

“Licensed gun dealers play a major role in stopping illegal gun purchases, especially straw purchases,” Sottile said. “In my experience at gun shows and licensed firearms storefronts throughout the Richmond area, dealers have contacted me if they suspect someone — through his or her conversation with the customer or the customer’s odd behavior — is attempting to make an illegal purchase.”

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911 changed everything. In my neck of the woods its considered a mortar because it uses explosive gas to propel a projectile greater than 1 inch diameter. At least that was what the sheriff told us when he confiscated ours. Your laws my vary.

 

Which is perfect freakin example of a solution looking for a problem. And exactly why it is important to oppose knee jerk emotional reactions by people who feel they have to "do something" wrt to guns. Was there a spate of potato mortar terrorism in your town???

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911 changed everything. In my neck of the woods its considered a mortar because it uses explosive gas to propel a projectile greater than 1 inch diameter. At least that was what the sheriff told us when he confiscated ours. Your laws my vary.

 

Which is perfect freakin example of a solution looking for a problem. And exactly why it is important to oppose knee jerk emotional reactions by people who feel they have to "do something" wrt to guns. Was there a spate of potato mortar terrorism in your town???

 

 

You've never heard of the Telluride Tater Massacre?.....

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911 changed everything. In my neck of the woods its considered a mortar because it uses explosive gas to propel a projectile greater than 1 inch diameter. At least that was what the sheriff told us when he confiscated ours. Your laws my vary.

 

Which is perfect freakin example of a solution looking for a problem. And exactly why it is important to oppose knee jerk emotional reactions by people who feel they have to "do something" wrt to guns. Was there a spate of potato mortar terrorism in your town???

 

I urge you to re-think such statements. Because you are da man. You are unique, and could show constructive leadership.

Mmm, you show an inquisitive mind, overall, yet a certain blindness on this subject.

The guns may be inanimate, until they jump into action based on poisoned philosophies, many of which you actively promote.

My take, based on discourse with you and your pals here, is that you guys don't seem to know when to stop. so must be stopped by others. Sorry.

 

Jeff, two days ago you put quotation marks on the trend of our US gunplay. Let's review the "trend", without personal attacks if possible.

 

 

 

How is this deterioration of the norm disputable, given the post 1977 developments?

 

 

Surveys suggest America's guns may be concentrated in fewer hands today: Approximately 40 percent of households had them in the past decade, versus about 50 percent in the 1980s. But far more relevant is a recent barrage of laws that have rolled back gun restrictions throughout the country. In the past four years, across 37 states, the NRA and its political allies have pushed through 99 laws making guns easier to own, carry, and conceal from the government.

The NRA surge: 99 recent laws rolling back gun regulations in 37 states.

Among the more striking measures: Eight states now allow firearms in bars.

Law-abiding Missourians can carry a gun while intoxicated and even fire it if "acting in self-defense."

In Kansas, permit holders can carry concealed weapons inside K-12 schools, and Louisiana allows them in houses of worship.

Virginia not only repealed a law requiring handgun vendors to submit sales records, but the state also ordered the destruction of all such previous records.

More than two-thirds of these laws were passed by Republican-controlled statehouses, though often with bipartisan support.

The laws have caused dramatic changes, including in the two states hit with the recent carnage. Colorado passed its concealed-carry measure in 2003, issuing 9,522 permits that year; by the end of last year the state had handed out a total of just under 120,000, according to data we obtained from the County Sheriffs of Colorado. In March of this year, the Colorado Supreme Court ruled that concealed weapons are legal on the state's college campuses. (It is now the fifth state explicitly allowing them.)

If former neuroscience student James Holmes were still attending the University of Colorado today, the movie theater killer—who had no criminal history and obtained his weapons legally—could've gotten a permit to tote his pair of .40 caliber Glocks straight into the student union.

Wisconsin's concealed-carry law went into effect just nine months before the Sikh temple shooting in suburban Milwaukee this August. During that time, the state issued a whopping 122,506 permits, according to data from Wisconsin's Department of Justice. The new law authorizes guns on college campuses, as well as in bars, state parks, and some government buildings.

And we're on our way to a situation where the most lax state permitting rules—say, Virginia's, where an online course now qualifies for firearms safety training and has drawn a flood of out-of-state applicants—are in effect national law. Eighty percent of states now recognize handgun permits from at least some other states. And gun rights activists are pushing hard fora federal reciprocity bill—passed in the House late last year, with GOP vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan among its most ardent supporters—that would essentially make any state's permits valid nationwide.

Indeed, the country's vast arsenal of handguns—at least 118 million of them as of 2010—is increasingly mobile, with 69 of the 99 new state laws making them easier to carry. A decade ago, seven states and the District of Columbia still prohibited concealed handguns; today, it's down to just Illinois and DC. (And Illinois recently passed an exception cracking the door open to carrying). In the 62 mass shootings we analyzed, 54 of the killers had handguns—including in all 15 of the mass shootings since the surge of pro-gun laws began in 2009.

Some particularly noteworthy laws:

  • Bullets and booze: In Missouri, law-abiding citizens can carry a gun while intoxicated and even fire it if "acting in self-defense."
  • Child-safety lock off: In Kansas, permit holders can carry concealed weapons inside K-12 schools and at school-sponsored activities.
  • Short arm of the law: In Utah, a person under felony indictment can buy a gun, and a person charged with a violent crime may be able to retain a concealed weapon permit. Nebraskans who've pled guilty to a violent crime can get a permit to carry a gun.
  • Sweet Jesus! In Louisiana, permit holders can carry concealed weapons inside houses of worship.
  • Without a trace: Virginia not only repealed a law requiring handgun vendors to submit sales records, but the state also ordered the destruction of all such previous records.

Pasted from <http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/map-gun-laws-2009-2012>

The Gun Industry’s Immunity from Lawsuits

Tort liability plays an important role in injury prevention. In circumstances where legislators have been unwilling to enact regulations to improve safety, dangerous products and careless industry practices are normally held in check by the possibility of civil litigation that enables injured individuals to recover monetarily. As noted above, policies designed to hold gun sellers accountable can curtail the diversion of guns to criminals. Litigation can do the same thing.73 The firearms industry, however, has recently obtained unprecedented immunity from this long-standing system of accountability.

A series of lawsuits in the 1990s held certain members of the firearms industry liable for particularly reckless practices. As a result, the industry began to push legislation in statehouses that limited this avenue of relief. Then, in 2005, after intense lobbying from the gun industry, Congress enacted and President Bush signed a law that gives gun manufacturers and sellers unprecedented nationwide immunity from lawsuits. This law, known as the “Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act,” requires the dismissal of almost any lawsuit brought against a member of the gun industry for irresponsible or negligent behavior in the business of making or selling guns.74 This law enables gun makers and sellers to market their products in ways that are intended to appeal to criminals and other ineligible purchasers without facing any legal consequences. It also allows the industry to make available increasingly dangerous weapons and to fail to monitor inventory, even in the face of evidence that thousands of guns are being stolen from dealerships and end up in the hands of criminals.

In 2012, the gun industry made an estimated $11.7 billion in sales and $993 million in profits.75 There is no good reason for the firearms industry to receive special treatment in the hands of the law or to be immune from the same kind of civil lawsuits that are used to hold business practices accountable for the injuries they cause.

Pasted from <http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-safety-public-health-policy-recommendations-for-a-more-secure-america/#Immunity>

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Except for the ones where known violent people can possess a firearm, there is nothing else wrong with any of ^those^ 'facts & stats'.....

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