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Bull Gator

Gun nutter sttrikes again

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Yes, and antilock brakes are great.

 

What? Are you a member of the Save the Wild Boar Society? Show us where they advocate shooting at people recreationally.

I'm a member of the Save the Kindergarten Kids Society. Not seeing that from the gun nutterz.

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Yes, and antilock brakes are great.

 

What? Are you a member of the Save the Wild Boar Society? Show us where they advocate shooting at people recreationally.

I'm a member of the Save the Kindergarten Kids Society. Not seeing that from the gun nutterz.

 

Are you?

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Yes, and antilock brakes are great.

 

What? Are you a member of the Save the Wild Boar Society? Show us where they advocate shooting at people recreationally.

I'm a member of the Save the Kindergarten Kids Society. Not seeing that from the gun nutterz.

 

You're not looking, let alone seeing. A couple of us have offered solutions on many threads but since those items don't fit a particular mold, a preconceived ideal, they are summarily discounted.

 

By the way, did you find that text at Bushmaster that advocates shooting at people?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thought not.

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Which doesn't sit well with Glock, and their hunter-with-dog photo labelled "hero_confidence".

Lewd fellows of the baser sort have been lapping that stuff up from the NRA since ~1977. Just sayin'.

 

 

 

hero-confidence.jpg

 

Fucking classic...

 

Hey, you never know what sort of threat one might encounter on the stroll across some meadow to the side-by-side Cialis bathtubs, right?

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For starters, the press needs to form a pact with each other, not to print the name or picture of these assholes.

 

That's something that can be done immediately. No legislation necessary.

 

What does this accomplish in terms of saving lives?

 

Wow, you really ARE a stupid cunt..... Are you seriously saying this doesn't make sense to you???

 

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Care to re-read the bolded section?

 

Who is compelling you to keep a safe two floors below you?

 

You were talking about making a federal law requiring people to keep their guns locked away. For me that would be in a safe which is bolted to the floor in my basement. A law which would require ME to keep my home defense guns there would be stupid. I am starting to not care about everyone else.

 

Tq, right now we simply need you to be bigger than that.

You called my concerns "tripe" last week; what do you think this week?

That more good guns can face down all the bad guns? Well, which is which?

It is more subtle than that. Carry on.

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Read Boothy at his finest. What an example of arrested development in all its pathetic glory. .... and he owns guns ... that's got to be a worry.

 

If America ever gets it gun death rates down to anywhere near the 1st world average then I'll remember back to your attitudes and tell my children, men like you were a menace to society.

 

 

There's no more kindergarten class. They're all dead.......

 

You're fuking insane. Please, do us a favor and stfu for the rest of the week, ok?....

 

Hey JokeOff, could you please kindly go fuck yourself for the rest of the month and find another playground?...

 

Yes we do. Unfortunately, yours is full of drivel, inanities, speculation and misinformation....

 

Do you EVER get f'ng tired of being wrong and stupid?....

 

You two need to stop drinking from the same tippy-cup....

 

Aren't you the same dip shit that just called for having exactly ONE HALF of the guns in America confiscated? And I'm the fucker?......

 

(and gawd dammit but you're such a myopic leftista twit that it's beyond comical. Maybe you need to go do another long distance delivery)

 

What's this We shit, fruit loop?....

 

Hey Mr. Troll, I've had six different friends and acquaintences killed by thugs with guns in the past 40 years. And no, I still haven't traded my firearms in for a necklace made of pearls----'cuz I'm a Pragmatic, not an Emotionist----like yourself.

 

(shhhh, I'm hunting emotionally charged, pearl clutching wabbits)....

 

You guys will see a civil war of epic fuking proportions around here if the anti-nutters try to politicize this and push too hard.

 

Gawd dammit but your fuking ignorance never ceases to amaze us here. Don't you have ANY idea how hard it is to purchase and own firearms in Connecticut, the fourth most regulated state wrt to gun laws?Please C-Poo, for the sake of your own stupidity, please educate yourself before posting tripey drivel, ok?........

 

Nah, I can already see the writing on the wall---the emotionally challenged pearl clutchers are frothing at the mouth, but they're shooting blanks. The Second will remain, untouched and un-sullied by you and your elk....

 

Gawd dam but you're such a childish, mindless little kid. Aren't you missing Romper Room right now?....

 

I f'ng give up. It's painfully obvious here that not only can I not fix crazy, but I also can't fix stupid.

 

Gawd you two emotionally irrational gurls are fuking tools----of the worst kind....

 

Do you EVER get f'ng tired of being wrong and stupid?....

 

Because I like them, and 'cuz I can. What's your point?....

 

Gawd dammit but your fuking ignorance never ceases to amaze us here. Don't you have ANY idea how hard it is to purchase and own firearms in Connecticut, the fourth most regulated state wrt to gun laws?Please C-Poo, for the sake of your own stupidity, please educate yourself before posting tripey drivel, ok?........

 

 

The next time you decide to blow half a Saturday quoting my stuff, instead of banging your wife, you may wanna consider spending the other half of the day quoting the posts I was responding to. Ya know, just to keep the balance right and all?.....

 

There is no justification for saying that stuff, Rick. The average kid couldn't come on like that at the average dinner table, Amigo.

You are an Federal Firearms Licensee living in a gray area. Your taunts and insults are the stuff which confrontations are made of, and you are heavily armed with an attitude.

BYW your civil war comment/threat is itself based on emotion.

And the "Tillerman-liar-ostracization" crap you pulled with me may be cummulatively what set off Adam Lanza.

AKA bullying.

 

So I ask again. Are you willing to send a link to this forum to the ATF/DOJ for the ol' background check thingee?

If you don't have the cajones, Mr. Booth, would you mind if I do?

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So your point is that I should have waited a while before responding to Sol's question? And based on your latest post, that perhaps he should have waited a while before asking it?

 

You could have waited or you could have responded differently. The way you did respond was distasteful and showed little to no respect for the tragedy that occurred. Once again, because it seems not to be getting through, pointing your finger at someone else acting like an ass-hat does not make you any less of one.

 

Speaking of ass-hat moves, trying to use the thread about the kindergarten massacre to play games in another thread (I haven't even read) because a third poster isn't talking to them. Get a grip man, this thread and the tragedy are not about you and your petty games.

 

I thought this thread was about another shooting, at least before Mitch made a post that no one could have foreseen would lead to a discussion of gun control. :rolleyes:

 

Remind me again, was that before or after your attempt to involve me in your "shitcago" tiff with Sol? Can you man up to actually trying that in a thread that had clearly moved onto (or, at the very least, encompassed) the subject of the other shooting that occurred or should we expect another "look he did it too" excuse?

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Well done boothy! Golf clap. Now predict this kid doing what he did so that he would have been either medicated or removed from society.

 

Trust me, I wish I/We could. I honestly do. But barring the out right confiscation of every gun in America, gasoline, automobiles, knives and explosives, we will NEVER be able to stop these tragedies. Ever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They. Will. Find. A. Way......

 

You forgot things with sharp edges, sticks, rocks, hands, feet, and water.

 

 

How often do you hear of mass slaughter in the USA by knife, machete, lead pipe, fire or bombing? Pretty much never.

 

My reasonable proposal

 

2 guns per household.

All guns licensed

Permit required with deep dive background check, six month waiting period

Certain guns banned

High tax on ammo

No more than 100 rounds per transaction

No cash sales of guns or ammo

No high capacity mags.

Make Mags hard to change out (at least 30 seconds)

 

My reasonable proposal would save lives. For you gun Nutters out there which of these suggestions would you personally have a problem with?

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All of them. 'Cuz irrational emotionalism is not the proper reason to regulate anything....

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So your point is that I should have waited a while before responding to Sol's question? And based on your latest post, that perhaps he should have waited a while before asking it?

 

You could have waited or you could have responded differently. The way you did respond was distasteful and showed little to no respect for the tragedy that occurred. Once again, because it seems not to be getting through, pointing your finger at someone else acting like an ass-hat does not make you any less of one.

 

Speaking of ass-hat moves, trying to use the thread about the kindergarten massacre to play games in another thread (I haven't even read) because a third poster isn't talking to them. Get a grip man, this thread and the tragedy are not about you and your petty games.

 

I thought this thread was about another shooting, at least before Mitch made a post that no one could have foreseen would lead to a discussion of gun control. :rolleyes:

 

Remind me again, was that before or after your attempt to involve me in your "shitcago" tiff with Sol? Can you man up to actually trying that in a thread that had clearly moved onto (or, at the very least, encompassed) the subject of the other shooting that occurred or should we expect another "look he did it too" excuse?

 

You did not answer my question about whether it was the right time for Sol to ask that question, which is one reason I asked earlier why I was being singled out for criticism for something everyone here is doing.

 

I attempted to involve you in the thing with Sol because although neither of you is honest enough to admit it, he was clearly referencing this discussion I was having with you two in his post.

 

This thread did not "move on" all by its little self. Mitch moved it on from the shooting about which no one wants to discuss the conclusion to greener gun control propagandizing pastures.

 

By the way, back to this thread's original topic again:

 

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Meanwhile in the halls of Congress:

 

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) vowed Sunday to introduce legislation to ban assault weapons at the start of the next Congress.

 

“I’m going to introduce in the Senate and the same bill will be introduced in the House, a bill to ban assault weapons. It will ban the sale, the transfer, the importation and the possession. Not retroactively but prospectively. And it will ban the same for big clips, drums or strips of more than 10 bullets. So there will be a bill. We’ve been working on it now for a year,” Feinstein said on NBC’s “Meet The Press” during a discussion about guns following Friday’s deadly mass shooting as a Connecticut school.

 

Feinstein said she was confident such a measure could pass. In a separate interview on Sunday, Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) said he too was was optimistic about the prospect of passing a gun control measure.

 

“I think we can get something done,” said Schumer on CBS’s “Face The Nation.” Schumer advocated focusing on three areas: Banning assault weapons, limiting the size of clips, and making it harder for “mentally unstable” individuals to obtain firearms.

 

 

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/12/16/feinstein-will-introduce-assault-weapons-ban-in-senate/

 

This should ignite a few comments.

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Gun death numbers in the USA are an `outlier' compared to the rest of the 1st world. Not 10% more, not 100% more but 800% more.(International Epidemilogical Ascoc/ World Health Organisation)

 

 

Hmmm... got a link or something?

 

Looking for your source, I found this one, which says this:

 

The United States has very high rates of homicide- and firearmrelated death, compared with other high-income countries throughout the world.2–4 The US violent death rate in 2000 was about twice as high as the estimated rate for other high-income countries in 2000.1 However, when one considers the entire world, many nations and regions face far higher rates of violent death than the United States.5

 

The US age-adjusted homicide rate of 6.2 per 100 000 in 2000 was lower than the global estimated rate of 8.8 per 100 000.1,6

 

You know Tom, that's a funny and mischievous idea you've put forward there. You've quoted from a report on world wide violence that includes all types of violence, with or without guns and including war zones. It hardly seems revelant to this discussion on gun violence in 1st world countries. Your response was to quote a different irrelevant statistic to refute my post.

 

But hang on! I don't have to find my World Health Organisation report to quote you, I can just read on further in the report you have quoted and find that, it does in fact, point out that America has 8 times the gun death rate of it 1st world counterparts. How ridiculous is that!

 

 

 

During the one-year study period, 88,649 firearm deaths were reported. Overall firearm mortality rates are five to six times higher in HI and UMI countries in the Americas (12.72) than in Europe (2.17), or Oceania (2.57) and 95 times higher than in Asia (0.13). The rate of firearm deaths in the United States (14.24 per 100,000) exceeds that of its economic counterparts (1.76) eightfold and that of UMI countries (9.69) by a factor of 1.5. Suicide and homicide contribute equally to total firearm deaths in the US, but most firearm deaths are suicides (71%) in HI countries and homicides (72%) in UMI countries.

 

 

Its here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9602401/

 

HI = High Income and UMI = Upper Middle Income

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You did not answer my question about whether it was the right time for Sol to ask that question, which is one reason I asked earlier why I was being singled out for criticism for something everyone here is doing.

 

 

Cos I don't care much about what the others have to say at the best of times.

I agree with JBSF:

Its so sad that the little kid's corpses aren't even cold yet and tikipete
and others
want to turn this into a political shit. Nice job, cunts......

So I guess you'd agree with this post of mine?

Both of you guys should really wait for the bodies to cool down before using events like this one to promote more gun control, IMO.

 

Yes, with the important addition that I think both sides need to do that.

 

You might like to pedantically go through every name of everyone else that acts like a tool, but I've already covered those actions. You were singled out due to a mistake in timing (which I admitted to) and because you have since engaged in exactly the behaviour I thought you had done prior to the shooting.

 

Given both sides of the left/right pro/anti gun control debate think you're being an insensitive prick, I thought perhaps you'd value that perspective and perhaps act with some decency I don't expect from trolls & anonymous accounts. I was wrong about that and I won't bother with such motives in the future.

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I attempted to involve you in the thing with Sol because although neither of you is honest enough to admit it, he was clearly referencing this discussion I was having with you two in his post.

 

And that makes it more appropriate for this thread how exactly? I'm not even reading the "shitcago" thread and that discussion was in a Voter ID law thread (your efforts to talk about the second amendment notwithstanding). Remember my point about this thread not being about you & your petty arguments from elsewhere? Still stands.

 

This thread did not "move on" all by its little self. Mitch moved it on from the shooting about which no one wants to discuss the conclusion to greener gun control propagandizing pastures.

Remember my point about finger pointing does not change the fact that you're acting like a tool in context of the shooting that is most definitely a part of this thread? Yeah, that still stands too.

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Newtown Shooting | The Victims

 

 

Charlotte Bacon, 6 Daniel Barden, 7 Olivia Engel, 6 Josephine Gay, 7 Ana Marquez-Greene, 6 Dylan Hockley, 6 Madeleine Hsu, 6 Catherine Hubbard, 6 Chase Kowalski, 7 Jesse Lewis, 6

James Mattioli, 6 Grace McDonnell, 7 Emilie Parker, 6 Jack Pinto, 6 Noah Pozner, 6 Caroline Previdi, 6 Jessica Rekos, 6 Avielle Richman, 6 Benjamin Wheeler, 6 Allison Wyatt, 6

Rachel Davino, 29 Teacher Dawn Hochsprung, 47 School principal Nancy Lanza, 52 Mother of gunman Anne Marie Murphy, 52 Teacher Lauren Rousseau, 30 Teacher Mary Sherlach, 56 School psychologist Victoria Soto, 27 Teacher

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The last magnificent manipulation they will attempt is to ask us not to have this conversation now, to not 'politicize' the deaths of children by wanting to talk about what to do about this.

 

So, if now is not the time, just when would be good for you? Would next week be OK? How about in January. Would that be a good time to talk about the ease with which someone can slaughter innocent citizens in this country? Would that be a good time to discuss the Gun Culture (it sure does exist, yes it does) and how to change that?

 

from a Facebook post to me.

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All of them. 'Cuz irrational emotionalism is not the proper reason to regulate anything....

 

You mean like banning BBQ Forks?

 

They're dangerous WEAPONS and need to be outlawed NOW!

 

I'm writing a letter to Diane Finkelstein right now! Gloria Allred might get a copy, too!

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Guest One of Five

Newtown Shooting | The Victims

 

 

Charlotte Bacon, 6 Daniel Barden, 7 Olivia Engel, 6 Josephine Gay, 7 Ana Marquez-Greene, 6 Dylan Hockley, 6 Madeleine Hsu, 6 Catherine Hubbard, 6 Chase Kowalski, 7 Jesse Lewis, 6

James Mattioli, 6 Grace McDonnell, 7 Emilie Parker, 6 Jack Pinto, 6 Noah Pozner, 6 Caroline Previdi, 6 Jessica Rekos, 6 Avielle Richman, 6 Benjamin Wheeler, 6 Allison Wyatt, 6

Rachel Davino, 29 Teacher Dawn Hochsprung, 47 School principal Nancy Lanza, 52 Mother of gunman Anne Marie Murphy, 52 Teacher Lauren Rousseau, 30 Teacher Mary Sherlach, 56 School psychologist Victoria Soto, 27 Teacher

 

Thank you again for keeping this focused.

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Gotta to love the media (UK) 4 guns used, 1 of which retreived from the car.

 

As seen 2 minutes ago.

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Gun death numbers in the USA are an `outlier' compared to the rest of the 1st world. Not 10% more, not 100% more but 800% more.(International Epidemilogical Ascoc/ World Health Organisation)

 

 

Hmmm... got a link or something?

 

Looking for your source, I found this one, which says this:

 

The United States has very high rates of homicide- and firearm related death, compared with other high-income countries throughout the world.2–4 The US violent death rate in 2000 was about twice as high as the estimated rate for other high-income countries in 2000.1 However, when one considers the entire world, many nations and regions face far higher rates of violent death than the United States.5

 

The US age-adjusted homicide rate of 6.2 per 100 000 in 2000 was lower than the global estimated rate of 8.8 per 100 000.1,6

 

You know Tom, that's a funny and mischievous idea you've put forward there. You've quoted from a report on world wide violence that includes all types of violence, with or without guns and including war zones. It hardly seems revelant to this discussion on gun violence in 1st world countries. Your response was to quote a different irrelevant statistic to refute my post.

 

But hang on! I don't have to find my World Health Organisation report to quote you, I can just read on further in the report you have quoted and find that, it does in fact, point out that America has 8 times the gun death rate of it 1st world counterparts. How ridiculous is that!

 

 

 

During the one-year study period, 88,649 firearm deaths were reported. Overall firearm mortality rates are five to six times higher in HI and UMI countries in the Americas (12.72) than in Europe (2.17), or Oceania (2.57) and 95 times higher than in Asia (0.13). The rate of firearm deaths in the United States (14.24 per 100,000) exceeds that of its economic counterparts (1.76) eightfold and that of UMI countries (9.69) by a factor of 1.5. Suicide and homicide contribute equally to total firearm deaths in the US, but most firearm deaths are suicides (71%) in HI countries and homicides (72%) in UMI countries.

 

 

Its here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9602401/

 

HI = High Income and UMI = Upper Middle Income

 

Yes, I probably should have included a quote that referenced firearms and compared the US to high income countries. That was awfully mischievous of me. :rolleyes:

 

A bit like including suicides as evidence of our "firearms violence" when Japan has quite a few more suicides per capita, but Japanese do not use the tools we do because they are not allowed to have them.

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Gun death numbers in the USA are an `outlier' compared to the rest of the 1st world. Not 10% more, not 100% more but 800% more.(International Epidemilogical Ascoc/ World Health Organisation)

 

 

Hmmm... got a link or something?

 

Looking for your source, I found this one, which says this:

 

The United States has very high rates of homicide- and firearm related death, compared with other high-income countries throughout the world.2–4 The US violent death rate in 2000 was about twice as high as the estimated rate for other high-income countries in 2000.1 However, when one considers the entire world, many nations and regions face far higher rates of violent death than the United States.5

 

The US age-adjusted homicide rate of 6.2 per 100 000 in 2000 was lower than the global estimated rate of 8.8 per 100 000.1,6

 

You know Tom, that's a funny and mischievous idea you've put forward there. You've quoted from a report on world wide violence that includes all types of violence, with or without guns and including war zones. It hardly seems revelant to this discussion on gun violence in 1st world countries. Your response was to quote a different irrelevant statistic to refute my post.

 

But hang on! I don't have to find my World Health Organisation report to quote you, I can just read on further in the report you have quoted and find that, it does in fact, point out that America has 8 times the gun death rate of it 1st world counterparts. How ridiculous is that!

 

 

 

During the one-year study period, 88,649 firearm deaths were reported. Overall firearm mortality rates are five to six times higher in HI and UMI countries in the Americas (12.72) than in Europe (2.17), or Oceania (2.57) and 95 times higher than in Asia (0.13). The rate of firearm deaths in the United States (14.24 per 100,000) exceeds that of its economic counterparts (1.76) eightfold and that of UMI countries (9.69) by a factor of 1.5. Suicide and homicide contribute equally to total firearm deaths in the US, but most firearm deaths are suicides (71%) in HI countries and homicides (72%) in UMI countries.

 

 

Its here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9602401/

 

HI = High Income and UMI = Upper Middle Income

 

Yes, I probably should have included a quote that referenced firearms and compared the US to high income countries. That was awfully mischievous of me. :rolleyes:

 

A bit like including suicides as evidence of our "firearms violence" when Japan has quite a few more suicides per capita, but Japanese do not use the tools we do because they are not allowed to have them.

 

 

 

8 times the gun death rate, Tom. EIGHT TIMES

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The last magnificent manipulation they will attempt is to ask us not to have this conversation now, to not 'politicize' the deaths of children by wanting to talk about what to do about this.

 

 

So, if now is not the time, just when would be good for you? Would next week be OK? How about in January. Would that be a good time to talk about the ease with which someone can slaughter innocent citizens in this country? Would that be a good time to discuss the Gun Culture (it sure does exist, yes it does) and how to change that?

 

 

from a Facebook post to me.

 

 

Or, we might just see people who do not mind the exploitation of this murderous rampage to push for gun control, but are deeply offended if someone speaks out against that practice.

 

No, wait, we already did see that, right here in this thread.

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8 times the gun death rate, Tom. EIGHT TIMES

 

 

Take out the suicides, since people who are intent on killing themselves will do so, as the population of Japan frequently demonstrates. Blaming guns for suicides is nonsense.

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By the way, back to this thread's original topic again:

 

 

Jocal is the only one from the gun control side who has addressed the original topic of this thread and how that shooting ended.

 

Good for you, Jocal. It gives me hope to see that someone can actually look at the truth and not turn away when it does not fit his agenda.

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Hmmm... got a link or something?

 

Looking for your source, I found this one, which says this:

 

The United States has very high rates of homicide- and firearm related death, compared with other high-income countries throughout the world.2–4 The US violent death rate in 2000 was about twice as high as the estimated rate for other high-income countries in 2000.1 However, when one considers the entire world, many nations and regions face far higher rates of violent death than the United States.5

 

The US age-adjusted homicide rate of 6.2 per 100 000 in 2000 was lower than the global estimated rate of 8.8 per 100 000.1,6

 

You know Tom, that's a funny and mischievous idea you've put forward there. You've quoted from a report on world wide violence that includes all types of violence, with or without guns and including war zones. It hardly seems revelant to this discussion on gun violence in 1st world countries. Your response was to quote a different irrelevant statistic to refute my post.

 

But hang on! I don't have to find my World Health Organisation report to quote you, I can just read on further in the report you have quoted and find that, it does in fact, point out that America has 8 times the gun death rate of it 1st world counterparts. How ridiculous is that!

 

 

 

During the one-year study period, 88,649 firearm deaths were reported. Overall firearm mortality rates are five to six times higher in HI and UMI countries in the Americas (12.72) than in Europe (2.17), or Oceania (2.57) and 95 times higher than in Asia (0.13). The rate of firearm deaths in the United States (14.24 per 100,000) exceeds that of its economic counterparts (1.76) eightfold and that of UMI countries (9.69) by a factor of 1.5. Suicide and homicide contribute equally to total firearm deaths in the US, but most firearm deaths are suicides (71%) in HI countries and homicides (72%) in UMI countries.

 

 

Its here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9602401/

 

HI = High Income and UMI = Upper Middle Income

 

Yes, I probably should have included a quote that referenced firearms and compared the US to high income countries. That was awfully mischievous of me. :rolleyes:

 

A bit like including suicides as evidence of our "firearms violence" when Japan has quite a few more suicides per capita, but Japanese do not use the tools we do because they are not allowed to have them.

 

 

 

8 times the gun death rate, Tom. EIGHT TIMES

 

 

Oh well. You wanna live here, in a free country, with our current list of constitutional rights? Or you wanna live as a subject in a dump such as China, North Korea or Burma?.....

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No - they're lemmings who want to be told they're safe when in fact they are far, far from it.

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You know Tom, that's a funny and mischievous idea you've put forward there. You've quoted from a report on world wide violence that includes all types of violence, with or without guns and including war zones. It hardly seems revelant to this discussion on gun violence in 1st world countries. Your response was to quote a different irrelevant statistic to refute my post.

 

But hang on! I don't have to find my World Health Organisation report to quote you, I can just read on further in the report you have quoted and find that, it does in fact, point out that America has 8 times the gun death rate of it 1st world counterparts. How ridiculous is that!

 

 

 

During the one-year study period, 88,649 firearm deaths were reported. Overall firearm mortality rates are five to six times higher in HI and UMI countries in the Americas (12.72) than in Europe (2.17), or Oceania (2.57) and 95 times higher than in Asia (0.13). The rate of firearm deaths in the United States (14.24 per 100,000) exceeds that of its economic counterparts (1.76) eightfold and that of UMI countries (9.69) by a factor of 1.5. Suicide and homicide contribute equally to total firearm deaths in the US, but most firearm deaths are suicides (71%) in HI countries and homicides (72%) in UMI countries.

 

 

Its here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9602401/

 

HI = High Income and UMI = Upper Middle Income

 

Yes, I probably should have included a quote that referenced firearms and compared the US to high income countries. That was awfully mischievous of me. :rolleyes:

 

A bit like including suicides as evidence of our "firearms violence" when Japan has quite a few more suicides per capita, but Japanese do not use the tools we do because they are not allowed to have them.

 

 

 

8 times the gun death rate, Tom. EIGHT TIMES

 

 

Oh well. You wanna live here, in a free country, with our current list of constitutional rights? Or you wanna live as a subject in a dump such as China, North Korea or Burma?.....

 

You always struck me as a chronic underachiever Boothy.

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No - they're lemmings who want to be told they're safe when in fact they are far, far from it.

 

I feel sorry for you. You live your life in fear. We are safe and guns don't make you more safe rather they make you less safe. I remember how you reacted after 911 and the anthrax mailings your fear was palpable and outsized. It wasn't a normal reaction. If a gun makes you feel safer I guess bully for you. I don't want to take your guns (at least not all of them) but your gun and ammo collction makes the rest of us lest safe. Some curbs on your pathology are needed.

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No - they're lemmings who want to be told they're safe when in fact they are far, far from it.

 

I feel sorry for you. You live your life in fear. We are safe and guns don't make you more safe rather they make you less safe. I remember how you reacted after 911 and the anthrax mailings your fear was palpable and outsized. It wasn't a normal reaction. If a gun makes you feel safer I guess bully for you. I don't want to take your guns (at least not all of them) but your gun and ammo collction makes the rest of us lest safe. Some curbs on your pathology are needed.

 

You wanna tell the rest of the class here WHY you bought a Glock?....

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Wanna run that one by my accountant?....

 

That is so fucking funny.

 

No really ... I'm laughing so hard; I'm fucking crying ... you are the best.

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No - they're lemmings who want to be told they're safe when in fact they are far, far from it.

 

I feel sorry for you. You live your life in fear. We are safe and guns don't make you more safe rather they make you less safe. I remember how you reacted after 911 and the anthrax mailings your fear was palpable and outsized. It wasn't a normal reaction. If a gun makes you feel safer I guess bully for you. I don't want to take your guns (at least not all of them) but your gun and ammo collction makes the rest of us lest safe. Some curbs on your pathology are needed.

 

You wanna tell the rest of the class here WHY you bought a Glock?....

 

My gun nutter buddy talked me into it. Said it would be fun to go shoot etc. It was stupid. I don't need it. I'm not a coward. This week I will be rid of it

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No - they're lemmings who want to be told they're safe when in fact they are far, far from it.

 

I feel sorry for you. You live your life in fear. We are safe and guns don't make you more safe rather they make you less safe. I remember how you reacted after 911 and the anthrax mailings your fear was palpable and outsized. It wasn't a normal reaction. If a gun makes you feel safer I guess bully for you. I don't want to take your guns (at least not all of them) but your gun and ammo collction makes the rest of us lest safe. Some curbs on your pathology are needed.

 

You wanna tell the rest of the class here WHY you bought a Glock?....

 

My gun nutter buddy talked me into it. Said it would be fun to go shoot etc. It was stupid. I don't need it. I'm not a coward. This week I will be rid of it

How much to rid yourself of that vile tool? And Im serious.

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Oh well. You wanna live here, in a free country, with our current list of constitutional rights? Or you wanna live as a subject in a dump such as China, North Korea or Burma?.....

 

You need to get out more...

 

There is a multitude of alternatives beyond only the simplistic Either/Or extremes you appear capable of processing...

 

Life in a "dump" like Canada, or New Zealand, doesn't seem all that bad, actually...

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Gun nutter buddy buying it back for what I paid - $400

 

Im glad you didn't lose money on that vile tool.

I'm sure you will take the proceeds and donate them to the victims of Sandy Hook or some other victims of gun violence charity. We expect nothing less from you Bull Gator, your the best.

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Gun nutter buddy buying it back for what I paid - $400

 

Im glad you didn't lose money on that vile tool.

I'm sure you will take the proceeds and donate them to the victims of Sandy Hook or some other victims of gun violence charity. We expect nothing less from you Bull Gator, your the best.

 

That's assuming he has any cash left after levying upon himself his own I'm Actually Really Fuking Stupid tax....

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Gun nutter buddy buying it back for what I paid - $400

 

Im glad you didn't lose money on that vile tool.

I'm sure you will take the proceeds and donate them to the victims of Sandy Hook or some other victims of gun violence charity. We expect nothing less from you Bull Gator, your the best.

 

That's assuming he has any cash left after levying upon himself his own I'm Actually Really Fuking Stupid tax....

 

Now now there El Boothyarchi I know my little buddy from Gainsville will do the right thing with the money from the sale of his Glock. I know he is passionate for his cause to end gun violence.

Thanks man. Have you considered doing the same? Or are you still consumed by fear?

 

Sure, I will donate, no fear here, you let me know the charity and I will do the same. Gotta figure out how to prove that we both donated. Any ideas?

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I'm sure you will take the proceeds and donate them to the victims of Sandy Hook or some other victims of gun violence charity.

 

Fuck me, I hope you mean that and it wasn't a joke, right?

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Gun nutter buddy buying it back for what I paid - $400

 

Im glad you didn't lose money on that vile tool.

I'm sure you will take the proceeds and donate them to the victims of Sandy Hook or some other victims of gun violence charity. We expect nothing less from you Bull Gator, your the best.

 

That's assuming he has any cash left after levying upon himself his own I'm Actually Really Fuking Stupid tax....

 

Now now there El Boothyarchi I know my little buddy from Gainsville will do the right thing with the money from the sale of his Glock. I know he is passionate for his cause to end gun violence.

Thanks man. Have you considered doing the same? Or are you still consumed by fear?

 

Sure, I will donate, no fear here, you let me know the charity and I will do the same. Gotta figure out how to prove that we both donated. Any ideas?

 

I am often amused by the great american habit of sending money as soon as possible after something happens.

 

In this case, I'm certain that no amount of money can replace the lost children but somebody will be taking up a collection.

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Thanks man. Have you considered doing the same? Or are you still consumed by fear?

 

I know you haven't a frickin clew about life and shit, but there are about ten more reasons to collect, shoot and enjoy firearms----that do not involve wiping out school kids. But since your seven plus years of posts here in S/A prove without a doubt that you're both too immature to own a gun, AND are mentally unstable.....we're all sighing in relief that you're giving up your Glock. Please, don't make this mistake again, as you are definitely incapable of acting responsible with a firearm.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

Americans For A Safer America....

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I'm sure you will take the proceeds and donate them to the victims of Sandy Hook or some other victims of gun violence charity.

 

Fuck me, I hope you mean that and it wasn't a joke, right?

I mean it. I hope Bull Gator will show us he has a heart.

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Will wait to see what the appropriate charity should be. May just donate to red cross.

 

My vote is more important than my money in this instance. Please join me in voting for gun control.

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I'm sure you will take the proceeds and donate them to the victims of Sandy Hook or some other victims of gun violence charity.

 

Fuck me, I hope you mean that and it wasn't a joke, right?

I mean it. I hope Bull Gator will show us he has a heart.

 

No, I think you meant it as a joke ... which makes you a heartless prick.

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I'm sure you will take the proceeds and donate them to the victims of Sandy Hook or some other victims of gun violence charity.

 

Fuck me, I hope you mean that and it wasn't a joke, right?

I mean it. I hope Bull Gator will show us he has a heart.

 

No, I think you meant it as a joke ... which makes you a heartless prick.

 

That time of the month for ya, huh? Time for you to try the new ManTex, the male menstruating device that sops up not only your tofu scented unicorn tears, but your estrogenic emotions. But hurry, supplies are limited......

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Will wait to see what the appropriate charity should be. May just donate to red cross.

 

My vote is more important than my money in this instance. Please join me in voting for gun control.

Don't puss out on this Gator. I will match the $400 to an anti-gun violence charity of your choice. I mean it. Show us you mean business, I do.

I'm sure you will take the proceeds and donate them to the victims of Sandy Hook or some other victims of gun violence charity.

 

Fuck me, I hope you mean that and it wasn't a joke, right?

I mean it. I hope Bull Gator will show us he has a heart.

 

No, I think you meant it as a joke ... which makes you a heartless prick.

 

See above post then go fuck yourself, or join me if your not a heartless prick.

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Thanks man. Have you considered doing the same? Or are you still consumed by fear?

 

I know you haven't a frickin clew about life and shit, but there are about ten more reasons to collect, shoot and enjoy firearms----that do not involve wiping out school kids. But since your seven plus years of posts here in S/A prove without a doubt that you're both too immature to own a gun, AND are mentally unstable.....we're all sighing in relief that you're giving up your Glock. Please, don't make this mistake again, as you are definitely incapable of acting responsible with a firearm.

Sincerely,

 

Americans For A Safer America....

 

Please stay safe in your nanny state. You obviously aren't capable of fending for yourself.

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Will wait to see what the appropriate charity should be. May just donate to red cross.

 

My vote is more important than my money in this instance. Please join me in voting for gun control.

Don't puss out on this Gator. I will match the $400 to an anti-gun violence charity of your choice. I mean it. Show us you mean business, I do.

 

Fuck me, I hope you mean that and it wasn't a joke, right?

I mean it. I hope Bull Gator will show us he has a heart.

 

No, I think you meant it as a joke ... which makes you a heartless prick.

 

See above post then go fuck yourself, or join me if your not a heartless prick.

 

Sorry,

 

I don't know you from a bar of soap. I think I've been reading to much heartless shit here.. taking a break.

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]

Don't puss out on this Gator. I will match the $400 to an anti-gun violence charity of your choice. I mean it. Show us you mean business, I do.

Fuck me, I hope you mean that and it wasn't a joke, right?

I mean it. I hope Bull Gator will show us he has a heart.

 

No, I think you meant it as a joke ... which makes you a heartless prick.

 

See above post then go fuck yourself, or join me if your not a heartless prick.

 

Sorry,

 

I don't know you from a bar of soap. I think I've been reading to much heartless shit here.. taking a break.

 

Well I know Puffy pretty damn well, and he's a helluva stand-up man, so I highly suggest that you either put up, or shut up.....

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Well I know Puffy pretty damn well, and he's a helluva stand-up man, so I highly suggest that you either put up, or shut up.....

 

I am serious about this but its obvious Gaston is all talk and no action. I am willing to match his contribution to an anti gun violence charity if he will give the money he makes off his Glock to said charity. I pretty sure Gaston is a stand up guy and will put his money where his mouth is. If he doesn't then he has no credibility.....

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Well I know Puffy pretty damn well, and he's a helluva stand-up man, so I highly suggest that you either put up, or shut up.....

 

I am serious about this but its obvious Gaston is all talk and no action. I am willing to match his contribution to an anti gun violence charity if he will give the money he makes off his Glock to said charity. I pretty sure Gaston is a stand up guy and will put his money where his mouth is. If he doesn't then he has no credibility.....

If Gaston were truely serious, he'd destroy his Glock and document it here. Selling is not the solution.

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It seems that the Westboro Baptist Church has gone mainstream GOP:

 

http://politics.slashdot.org/story/12/12/17/0030250/anonymous-hacks-westboro-baptist-church

 

Mike Huckabee says this happened because we've taken God out of the schools instead of because some survivalist nuclear family had a little meltdown.

 

Yep, lets be clear in this: Huckabee is blaming the schools and the teachers for this and Westboro is doing the same thing.

 

Go Team Red

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Gun nutter buddy buying it back for what I paid - $400

 

And he's gonna finally buy that Bimmer M3.

 

863692a305fcc8732199792158d0.jpg

 

By the way, I propose a $1,000,000 tax on imported sports cars, they KILL People!

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Desperate Nutters try to compare us to Yemen.

 

It's embarrassing.

 

Yeah, it's OK to kill americans in Yemen.

 

well played, sir.

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You know Tom, that's a funny and mischievous idea you've put forward there. You've quoted from a report on world wide violence that includes all types of violence, with or without guns and including war zones. It hardly seems revelant to this discussion on gun violence in 1st world countries. Your response was to quote a different irrelevant statistic to refute my post.

 

But hang on! I don't have to find my World Health Organisation report to quote you, I can just read on further in the report you have quoted and find that, it does in fact, point out that America has 8 times the gun death rate of it 1st world counterparts. How ridiculous is that!

 

 

 

During the one-year study period, 88,649 firearm deaths were reported. Overall firearm mortality rates are five to six times higher in HI and UMI countries in the Americas (12.72) than in Europe (2.17), or Oceania (2.57) and 95 times higher than in Asia (0.13). The rate of firearm deaths in the United States (14.24 per 100,000) exceeds that of its economic counterparts (1.76) eightfold and that of UMI countries (9.69) by a factor of 1.5. Suicide and homicide contribute equally to total firearm deaths in the US, but most firearm deaths are suicides (71%) in HI countries and homicides (72%) in UMI countries.

 

 

Its here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9602401/

 

HI = High Income and UMI = Upper Middle Income

 

 

It's you who's trying to be insert funny and mischevious notions. Not that Tom doesn't do that, but this isn't an example.

 

It doesn't matter whether someone gets shot to death or stabbed to death or bludgeoned to death or whatever. Dead is dead. What matters is the number of deaths.

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You know Tom, that's a funny and mischievous idea you've put forward there. You've quoted from a report on world wide violence that includes all types of violence, with or without guns and including war zones. It hardly seems revelant to this discussion on gun violence in 1st world countries. Your response was to quote a different irrelevant statistic to refute my post.

 

But hang on! I don't have to find my World Health Organisation report to quote you, I can just read on further in the report you have quoted and find that, it does in fact, point out that America has 8 times the gun death rate of it 1st world counterparts. How ridiculous is that!

 

 

 

During the one-year study period, 88,649 firearm deaths were reported. Overall firearm mortality rates are five to six times higher in HI and UMI countries in the Americas (12.72) than in Europe (2.17), or Oceania (2.57) and 95 times higher than in Asia (0.13). The rate of firearm deaths in the United States (14.24 per 100,000) exceeds that of its economic counterparts (1.76) eightfold and that of UMI countries (9.69) by a factor of 1.5. Suicide and homicide contribute equally to total firearm deaths in the US, but most firearm deaths are suicides (71%) in HI countries and homicides (72%) in UMI countries.

 

 

Its here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9602401/

 

HI = High Income and UMI = Upper Middle Income

 

 

It's you who's trying to be insert funny and mischevious notions. Not that Tom doesn't do that, but this isn't an example.

 

It doesn't matter whether someone gets shot to death or stabbed to death or bludgeoned to death or whatever. Dead is dead. What matters is the number of deaths.

 

 

Huh??, this is a debate about gun deaths in a 1st world society.

 

Tom's statistic was not relevant to that.

 

If you really need to discuss bludgeoning deaths, knife deaths, war deaths, etc etc start a new thread.

 

Is it part of any pro gun debate to simply confuse the issue with inane comments like yours?

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You know Tom, that's a funny and mischievous idea you've put forward there. You've quoted from a report on world wide violence that includes all types of violence, with or without guns and including war zones. It hardly seems revelant to this discussion on gun violence in 1st world countries. Your response was to quote a different irrelevant statistic to refute my post.

 

But hang on! I don't have to find my World Health Organisation report to quote you, I can just read on further in the report you have quoted and find that, it does in fact, point out that America has 8 times the gun death rate of it 1st world counterparts. How ridiculous is that!

 

 

 

During the one-year study period, 88,649 firearm deaths were reported. Overall firearm mortality rates are five to six times higher in HI and UMI countries in the Americas (12.72) than in Europe (2.17), or Oceania (2.57) and 95 times higher than in Asia (0.13). The rate of firearm deaths in the United States (14.24 per 100,000) exceeds that of its economic counterparts (1.76) eightfold and that of UMI countries (9.69) by a factor of 1.5. Suicide and homicide contribute equally to total firearm deaths in the US, but most firearm deaths are suicides (71%) in HI countries and homicides (72%) in UMI countries.

 

 

Its here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9602401/

 

HI = High Income and UMI = Upper Middle Income

 

 

It's you who's trying to be insert funny and mischevious notions. Not that Tom doesn't do that, but this isn't an example.

 

It doesn't matter whether someone gets shot to death or stabbed to death or bludgeoned to death or whatever. Dead is dead. What matters is the number of deaths.

 

 

Huh??, this is a debate about gun deaths in a 1st world society.

 

Tom's statistic was not relevant to that.

 

If you really need to discuss bludgeoning deaths, knife deaths, war deaths, etc etc start a new thread.

 

Is it part of any pro gun debate to simply confuse the issue with inane comments like yours?

Yes. In essence, PA could not function without the liberal application of: strawmen, red herrings, non sequiturs, and ad hominem attacks.

 

Facts are not essential to PA.

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You know Tom, that's a funny and mischievous idea you've put forward there. You've quoted from a report on world wide violence that includes all types of violence, with or without guns and including war zones. It hardly seems revelant to this discussion on gun violence in 1st world countries. Your response was to quote a different irrelevant statistic to refute my post.

 

But hang on! I don't have to find my World Health Organisation report to quote you, I can just read on further in the report you have quoted and find that, it does in fact, point out that America has 8 times the gun death rate of it 1st world counterparts. How ridiculous is that!

 

 

 

During the one-year study period, 88,649 firearm deaths were reported. Overall firearm mortality rates are five to six times higher in HI and UMI countries in the Americas (12.72) than in Europe (2.17), or Oceania (2.57) and 95 times higher than in Asia (0.13). The rate of firearm deaths in the United States (14.24 per 100,000) exceeds that of its economic counterparts (1.76) eightfold and that of UMI countries (9.69) by a factor of 1.5. Suicide and homicide contribute equally to total firearm deaths in the US, but most firearm deaths are suicides (71%) in HI countries and homicides (72%) in UMI countries.

 

 

Its here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9602401/

 

HI = High Income and UMI = Upper Middle Income

 

 

It's you who's trying to be insert funny and mischevious notions. Not that Tom doesn't do that, but this isn't an example.

 

It doesn't matter whether someone gets shot to death or stabbed to death or bludgeoned to death or whatever. Dead is dead. What matters is the number of deaths.

 

 

Huh??, this is a debate about gun deaths in a 1st world society.

 

Is it? According to whom?

 

Tom's statistic was not relevant to that.

 

If you really need to discuss bludgeoning deaths, knife deaths, war deaths, etc etc start a new thread.

 

Is it part of any pro gun debate to simply confuse the issue with inane comments like yours?

 

I'm not sure if you're just trying to troll me, or serious.

 

Suppose we could prove that a particular policy would bring down the rate of gun death; but at the cost of increasing other violent deaths, to such an extent that the total number of violent deaths would be increased.

 

You'd support such a policy?

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You know Tom, that's a funny and mischievous idea you've put forward there. You've quoted from a report on world wide violence that includes all types of violence, with or without guns and including war zones. It hardly seems revelant to this discussion on gun violence in 1st world countries. Your response was to quote a different irrelevant statistic to refute my post.

 

But hang on! I don't have to find my World Health Organisation report to quote you, I can just read on further in the report you have quoted and find that, it does in fact, point out that America has 8 times the gun death rate of it 1st world counterparts. How ridiculous is that!

 

 

 

During the one-year study period, 88,649 firearm deaths were reported. Overall firearm mortality rates are five to six times higher in HI and UMI countries in the Americas (12.72) than in Europe (2.17), or Oceania (2.57) and 95 times higher than in Asia (0.13). The rate of firearm deaths in the United States (14.24 per 100,000) exceeds that of its economic counterparts (1.76) eightfold and that of UMI countries (9.69) by a factor of 1.5. Suicide and homicide contribute equally to total firearm deaths in the US, but most firearm deaths are suicides (71%) in HI countries and homicides (72%) in UMI countries.

 

 

Its here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9602401/

 

HI = High Income and UMI = Upper Middle Income

 

 

It's you who's trying to be insert funny and mischevious notions. Not that Tom doesn't do that, but this isn't an example.

 

It doesn't matter whether someone gets shot to death or stabbed to death or bludgeoned to death or whatever. Dead is dead. What matters is the number of deaths.

 

 

Huh??, this is a debate about gun deaths in a 1st world society.

 

Is it? According to whom?

 

Tom's statistic was not relevant to that.

 

If you really need to discuss bludgeoning deaths, knife deaths, war deaths, etc etc start a new thread.

 

Is it part of any pro gun debate to simply confuse the issue with inane comments like yours?

 

I'm not sure if you're just trying to troll me, or serious.

 

Suppose we could prove that a particular policy would bring down the rate of gun death; but at the cost of increasing other violent deaths, to such an extent that the total number of violent deaths would be increased.

 

You'd support such a policy?

 

 

The title of the thread is "Gun nutter strikes again" surely that tells you that the debate here will be about gun deaths.

 

The statistic Tom quoted included all forms of violence in war zones and third world gun/drug riddled societies. Are you going seriously wanting to compare the USA to Somalia or South Africa. I'm not sure why you keep insisting on this statistic has any relevance. Who is trolling who?

 

Of course I do know you are about to trot out a tired and worn out notion that if you take guns off murderers then they will use bombs, automobiles, knives etc etc. My answer to that is to make the relevant comparisons of comparable 1st world nations homicide statistics (which I did) and you will find that this doesn't follow. The USA leads the 1st world world in homicide rates because of guns. It also leads the world in `school shootings' for one very clear reason ... the availability of semi automatic guns in your community. Please don't offend everyone's judgement here by suggesting these school shootings would have amounted to the same numbers because the disaffected young men would have gone out and built bombs, or used vehicles or knives. Yes they `could' have... but no statistics anywhere show that they would.

 

Yes there has been a school bombing but that was an exception that doesn't prove the rule. The pro gunners are so fond of quoting outlier events to try and prove a point .. ie Suicide in Japan, a school bombing in Bath etc etc. It is poor intellectual rigour.

 

Oh here's a tip ... you could use the suicide bombings in the war zone of Iraq to refute the bombing statistics, I wouldn't put it past any pro gunner to do that. Go on why don't you?

 

If you are about to suggest that restricting guns to reduce the homicide rate will actually increase the homicide rate you better have a good cite other than some pro gun website, weirdo pin up professor or convoluted statistical workup.

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Is there a single issue that the far right in this country has been right about in the last number of years? One?

 

I'm trying to count back....

War on Drugs

Gays in the Military

Gay Partnerships

Womens reproductive rights

Iraq and nation building

Arming up everyone for safety and freedom

Giving back money out of debt and deficit will somehow trickle down

Wall Street can police itself.....

We need more God in Government

No need for FEMA and big government in disasters

Health Care will naturally become inexpensive if we get rid of lawsuits (tried in tx, failed completely).

The free market will fix everything.

 

I could go on...a lot further, but there is misery and cost enough right there. And yet, they continue to always wrap themselves in the flag and parade forward with the cross, thinking NOW...all of a sudden...they are so right.

 

Wrong. It's backwards bizzarro world. If you are a far rightie or staunch Paulie, the best course of action is to simply write down your beliefs, note the opposite next to them, and then cross out the first ones your wrote. You will then be on the correct tack.

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The statistic Tom quoted included all forms of violence in war zones and third world gun/drug riddled societies. Are you going seriously wanting to compare the USA to Somalia or South Africa. I'm not sure why you keep insisting on this statistic has any relevance. Who is trolling who?

 

It also compared the US to European and Pacific Rim countries. So I'd say... you're trolling.

 

Of course I do know you are about to trot out a tired and worn out notion that if you take guns off murderers then they will use bombs, automobiles, knives etc etc. My answer to that is to make the relevant comparisons of comparable 1st world nations homicide statistics (which I did) and you will find that this doesn't follow. The USA leads the 1st world world in homicide rates because of guns. It also leads the world in `school shootings' for one very clear reason ... the availability of semi automatic guns in your community. Please don't offend everyone's judgement here by suggesting these school shootings would have amounted to the same numbers because the disaffected young men would have gone out and built bombs, or used vehicles or knives. Yes they `could' have... but no statistics anywhere show that they would.

 

Yes there has been a school bombing but that was an exception that doesn't prove the rule. The pro gunners are so fond of quoting outlier events to try and prove a point .. ie Suicide in Japan, a school bombing in Bath etc etc. It is poor intellectual rigour.

 

Oh here's a tip ... you could use the suicide bombings in the war zone of Iraq to refute the bombing statistics, I wouldn't put it past any pro gunner to do that. Go on why don't you?

 

LOL. Would it shock you to learn that I'm for licensing of gun owners, with training requirements and proficiency tests?

 

And not some bullshit token test, either. I have a huge issue with under-trained police officers. I was complaining about it long before the recent (&IMO, predictable events at the Empire State building.

 

I'm also in support of attaching liability to owners for the secure storage of their guns. Someone commits a crime using your gun, you share in the blame. I don't give a fuck how the gun got from its legal owner to the shooter - it's the gun owner's responsability to make sure his weapons don't fall into the wrong hands, period, full stop.

 

I don't have a problem with magazine capacity limits, either. 10 or 15 rounds seems totally reasonable to me.

 

If you are about to suggest that restricting guns to reduce the homicide rate will actually increase the homicide rate you better have a good cite other than some pro gun website, weirdo pin up professor or convoluted statistical workup.

 

Me? I was just pointing out how ridiculous your "let's limit it to gun deaths" notion was. IMO, the statistics on the issue don't clearly support either side of the argument.

 

But get ready for Tom to point out that increasing the gun ownership rate does not result in a rise in homicide. I'm sure it won't take long. He has this one table of crime rates in Florida, in particular, that he loves to post everywhere, ever since Jocal tried to cherry-pick the same data.

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You know Tom, that's a funny and mischievous idea you've put forward there. You've quoted from a report on world wide violence that includes all types of violence, with or without guns and including war zones. It hardly seems revelant to this discussion on gun violence in 1st world countries. Your response was to quote a different irrelevant statistic to refute my post.

 

But hang on! I don't have to find my World Health Organisation report to quote you, I can just read on further in the report you have quoted and find that, it does in fact, point out that America has 8 times the gun death rate of it 1st world counterparts. How ridiculous is that!

 

 

 

During the one-year study period, 88,649 firearm deaths were reported. Overall firearm mortality rates are five to six times higher in HI and UMI countries in the Americas (12.72) than in Europe (2.17), or Oceania (2.57) and 95 times higher than in Asia (0.13). The rate of firearm deaths in the United States (14.24 per 100,000) exceeds that of its economic counterparts (1.76) eightfold and that of UMI countries (9.69) by a factor of 1.5. Suicide and homicide contribute equally to total firearm deaths in the US, but most firearm deaths are suicides (71%) in HI countries and homicides (72%) in UMI countries.

 

 

Its here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9602401/

 

HI = High Income and UMI = Upper Middle Income

 

 

It's you who's trying to be insert funny and mischevious notions. Not that Tom doesn't do that, but this isn't an example.

 

It doesn't matter whether someone gets shot to death or stabbed to death or bludgeoned to death or whatever. Dead is dead. What matters is the number of deaths.

 

 

Frehchie, ???? run that by us again. The thread and the topic at hand involve gun deaths and how to avoid them.

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Frenchie's correct though. Since the inception of the draconian gun laws ('96) in Aussie violent death numbers per year have remained virtually static.

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But get ready for Tom to point out that increasing the gun ownership rate does not result in a rise in homicide. I'm sure it won't take long. He has this one table of crime rates in Florida, in particular, that he loves to post everywhere, ever since Jocal tried to cherry-pick the same data.

 

Frenchie, I simply posted a series of stats and named the source, and Tom made a big deal of that one.

But I stand corrected on your post on my Issa comittee testimony stat that more than 70% of the Mexican guns were US sourced; even the Mexican Prez said that, but the figure was better cited by others as around 25%.

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The statistic Tom quoted included all forms of violence in war zones and third world gun/drug riddled societies. Are you going seriously wanting to compare the USA to Somalia or South Africa. I'm not sure why you keep insisting on this statistic has any relevance. Who is trolling who?

 

It also compared the US to European and Pacific Rim countries. So I'd say... you're trolling. Ok I'll try again ... yes the USA's 6.6 violent deaths per 100,000 compared to the global stats (all countries) of 8.8/100,000 makes it look good. But as soon as you compare that 6.6/100,000 report card to comparable high income or 1st world countries it is actually double the violent death statistics of the 1st world. Suddenly it looks ver very poor indeed. The report says "The United States has very high rates of homicide- and firearm related death, compared with other high-income countries throughout the world"

 

 

 

Of course I do know you are about to trot out a tired and worn out notion that if you take guns off murderers then they will use bombs, automobiles, knives etc etc. My answer to that is to make the relevant comparisons of comparable 1st world nations homicide statistics (which I did) and you will find that this doesn't follow. The USA leads the 1st world world in homicide rates because of guns. It also leads the world in `school shootings' for one very clear reason ... the availability of semi automatic guns in your community. Please don't offend everyone's judgement here by suggesting these school shootings would have amounted to the same numbers because the disaffected young men would have gone out and built bombs, or used vehicles or knives. Yes they `could' have... but no statistics anywhere show that they would.

 

Yes there has been a school bombing but that was an exception that doesn't prove the rule. The pro gunners are so fond of quoting outlier events to try and prove a point .. ie Suicide in Japan, a school bombing in Bath etc etc. It is poor intellectual rigour.

 

Oh here's a tip ... you could use the suicide bombings in the war zone of Iraq to refute the bombing statistics, I wouldn't put it past any pro gunner to do that. Go on why don't you?

 

LOL. Would it shock you to learn that I'm for licensing of gun owners, with training requirements and proficiency tests? Great

 

And not some bullshit token test, either. I have a huge issue with under-trained police officers. I was complaining about it long before the recent (&IMO, predictable events at the Empire State building.

 

I'm also in support of attaching liability to owners for the secure storage of their guns. Someone commits a crime using your gun, you share in the blame. I don't give a fuck how the gun got from its legal owner to the shooter - it's the gun owner's responsability to make sure his weapons don't fall into the wrong hands, period, full stop. I agree with that.

 

I don't have a problem with magazine capacity limits, either. 10 or 15 rounds seems totally reasonable to me. Would you accept 5? (Germany has only 3)

 

If you are about to suggest that restricting guns to reduce the homicide rate will actually increase the homicide rate you better have a good cite other than some pro gun website, weirdo pin up professor or convoluted statistical workup.

 

Me? I was just pointing out how ridiculous your "let's limit it to gun deaths" notion was. IMO, the statistics on the issue don't clearly support either side of the argument.

 

But get ready for Tom to point out that increasing the gun ownership rate does not result in a rise in homicide. I'm sure it won't take long. He has this one table of crime rates in Florida, in particular, that he loves to post everywhere, ever since Jocal tried to cherry-pick the same data.

Curiously, it was that very table that I first posted to try and show concealed handgun shootings went up when the law was introduced. They did and then fell, which Tom pointed out, however I've since read the findings of crime surveys that show the better policing and conviction rates are because of databases, cameras, DNA testing and not citizens carrying concealed weapons. This trend is an across the board trend in the 1st world.

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You're truly insane. And need to be 5150'd.....

 

You didn't answer the question AGAIN. Just another cheap shot.

You breeze through the DOJ background checks, you say?

Sounds like you do the annual FFL fandango to me, Amigo.

 

 

 

alongfortheride2.jpg

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Frenchie's correct though. Since the inception of the draconian gun laws ('96) in Aussie violent death numbers per year have remained virtually static.

 

Gun deaths have fallen though and if the violent death rate can remain at less than 1.9 per 100,000 compared to the USA at 6.6/100,000 I see no reason why gun legislation shouldn't remain in place. I still hunt with my uncle and I have no interest in carrying a handgun.

 

I know you may want to say that shooters just took up different means to kill, but there's no conclusive evidence with both sides of the gun debate releasing studies that show opposite opinions.

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But get ready for Tom to point out that increasing the gun ownership rate does not result in a rise in homicide. I'm sure it won't take long. He has this one table of crime rates in Florida, in particular, that he loves to post everywhere, ever since Jocal tried to cherry-pick the same data.

 

Frenchie, I simply posted a series of stats and named the source, and Tom made a big deal of that one.

But I stand corrected on your post on my Issa comittee testimony stat that more than 70% of the Mexican guns were US sourced; even the Mexican Prez said that, but the figure was better cited by others as around 25%.

 

You posted and linked a newspaper article in which the author clearly cherry picked the year 1999, trying to use a statistical anomaly to prove a point. I decided to look up the rest of the numbers and found a different story. It looked like this.

 

...

To be sure, even as gun rights and ownership have expanded, most of the tragic scenarios predicted by opponents of gun rights have not played out. However, murders by firearm have increased 45 percent since 1999, despite an overall drop in violent crime, according to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

...

 

Gosh, I wonder why they picked 1999 in particular for that statistic? Could there be more to the story if you look at other years?

 

Flfirearmmurders.gif

 

They could have picked 1987, the year Florida started issuing concealed weapons permits.

 

But that would have shown a slight decrease in firearms murders and a larger decrease in handgun murders, which is not exactly useful propaganda.

 

I just picked the one stat in jocal's article that stuck out to me as being easily verifiable as cherry-picked propaganda. I haven't bothered to dig into the rest of what was said yet, but expect I will find the same sort of cherry picking of data.

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Kansas gun nut shoots intruder in his home

 

I'm thinking it might be time to demonstrate once again that I really can post a steady stream of these, so here they come. This seems like a good thread for them.

 

That would be awesome. Could you give us 27?

 

This reply is from another thread, but is responsive to your question.

 

Man Attempts to Open Fire on Crowd at Movie Theater, Armed Off-Duty Sheriff’s Deputy Drops Him With One Bullet

 

 

The headline is excessively long and could easily be edited. There is a single word for "off duty sheriff's deputy." That word is: Citizen.

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Man Attempts to Open Fire on Crowd at Movie Theater, Armed Off-Duty Sheriff’s Deputy Drops Him With One Bullet

 

The headline is excessively long and could easily be edited. There is a single word for "off duty sheriff's deputy." That word is: Citizen.

 

 

Yes, though that would confuse the public with the notion that persons other that military and po-lleece should ever be lawfully be armed.

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"The Political right is wrong, we know best what's good for everyone else, just listen to US and it'll be OK".

 

 

 

There, Carebear - fixed it for you.

 

Topic is gun deaths.

 

Unless you're trying to just eliminate the distasteful object of your ire, the discussion SHOULD be about all violent deaths. The focus on the implement, and not cause/effect is an emotional response to the understandable desire to do SOMETHING NOW in response to a tragic circumstance.

 

Given the importance of the issue, and the fact that the legislative changes being bandied about have already proven to be inefficacious, shouldn't we instead take advantage of the inertia that exists and actually do something meaningful that will work?

 

I know people are hurting, and they're right to hurt. I know people want to do something to prevent senseless tragedies like this from occurring in the future - they're absolutely right to feel that way. Where I differ in opinion is that I don't think that there is any quick fix, and that any meaningful change is most likely going to take 2-3 generations before we see a positive impact from that change.

 

The heart of the issue is in determining why so many in our society have a propensity to employ violence, and once we understand the "why", to work tirelessly towards addressing those root causes. That direction and scope is what's necessary to effect a meaningful change.

 

More ineffective laws and divisive rhetoric don't move us towards a solution - understanding and firm actions will.

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Good points, sir.

 

----------------------------------------------

 

 

I would like to invite each of us to take a breath, slow down some, and take another minute to consider the people involved on Friday before anyone gets too wrapped up in the politics to recall them (meself included) -

 

http://news.yahoo.co...-190832900.html

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You know Tom, that's a funny and mischievous idea you've put forward there. You've quoted from a report on world wide violence that includes all types of violence, with or without guns and including war zones. It hardly seems revelant to this discussion on gun violence in 1st world countries. Your response was to quote a different irrelevant statistic to refute my post.

 

But hang on! I don't have to find my World Health Organisation report to quote you, I can just read on further in the report you have quoted and find that, it does in fact, point out that America has 8 times the gun death rate of it 1st world counterparts. How ridiculous is that!

 

 

 

During the one-year study period, 88,649 firearm deaths were reported. Overall firearm mortality rates are five to six times higher in HI and UMI countries in the Americas (12.72) than in Europe (2.17), or Oceania (2.57) and 95 times higher than in Asia (0.13). The rate of firearm deaths in the United States (14.24 per 100,000) exceeds that of its economic counterparts (1.76) eightfold and that of UMI countries (9.69) by a factor of 1.5. Suicide and homicide contribute equally to total firearm deaths in the US, but most firearm deaths are suicides (71%) in HI countries and homicides (72%) in UMI countries.

 

 

Its here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9602401/

 

HI = High Income and UMI = Upper Middle Income

 

 

It's you who's trying to be insert funny and mischevious notions. Not that Tom doesn't do that, but this isn't an example.

 

It doesn't matter whether someone gets shot to death or stabbed to death or bludgeoned to death or whatever. Dead is dead. What matters is the number of deaths.

 

 

Huh??, this is a debate about gun deaths in a 1st world society.

 

Tom's statistic was not relevant to that.

 

If you really need to discuss bludgeoning deaths, knife deaths, war deaths, etc etc start a new thread. Pinocchio, Intentional deaths by SUV are big with Jeff this week. May we include such SUV deaths in that thread, please?

 

Is it part of any pro gun debate to simply confuse the issue with inane comments like yours?

 

Yes, Pinocchio, it is. Take it from me. I've had twelve solid months of it, in six threads now.

Frenchie is one of the more reasonable of the sorry lot.

You will find Tom to be their statistician and their fatalistic hands-off-the-Second Amendment guy.

Boothy has it suddenly narrowed down to crazies this week. You have tasted the hollow bullying of this brainless federally licensed gun dealer by now.

And Jeff is oh-so-concerned about the deaths by SUV this week. What to do?

 

Their cutesy, pat, petty little responses are being recycled to you now, but each inanity reverberates differently after Friday's occurrences.

Each of these jerks is innocent of contributing to the gun problem, by the way. They are "law abiding".

And nothing will work to fix the US gun problem, so don't touch those laws.

 

One last thing, Pinocchio. It's all a big joke, so bring your sense of humor.

There's plenty of mirth in the way the NRA folded this week and left 'em hanging, for example.

 

The Jokester

 

 

Post210JBSF.jpg

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<SNIP>

And nothing will work to fix the US gun problem, so don't touch those laws.

<SNIP>

 

And once again, JoCal - we get to the crux of the discussion: I don't see that we've got a gun problem, we've got a problem in which a segment of the population chooses to employ violence as a means of gaining voice. The issue is the propensity to cause others harm, NOT guns. I honestly thought that we'd come to a grudging agreement on this point, but, I see now that I was mistaken.

 

Try to consider this: implement /vs/ intent. In addition, please try to consider the history of our governmental processes, and how they've been applied over the years. Well intentioned legislation is changed and diluted in implementation to the degree that it's a joke.

 

So - like you, I (and I daresay most of the other serious contributors to this forum) really do want to see things improve. Instead of behaving like several of the letter-wearing weenies in the peanut gallery, let's discuss ideas based upon their merits and likely chances of success.

 

Let's try affording a little consideration to differing opinions, understanding that we all want the same thing.

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there's no conclusive evidence with both sides of the gun debate releasing studies that show opposite opinions.

 

Bingo.

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