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loyd

The New Corsair CRUZE 970 (32’)

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Now that the 24s and 31 are all redesigned, it's probably just a matter of time, a very short, time before the 28 gets the Bull Terrier treatment. Good on them.

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That is going to be a real ugly boat, but functional, and probably sell-able.

Park it next to a Hunter or Catalina at the boat show and it will probably look right at home. That's a lot of nose...

 

Last time I checked wasn't it a bad thing to put a lot of weight in the front of a multi (any multi)? Seems like the extra headroom and storage in the front is only going to encourage loading the front down. That could be interesting.

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That is going to be a real ugly boat, but functional, and probably sell-able.

Park it next to a Hunter or Catalina at the boat show and it will probably look right at home. That's a lot of nose...

 

Last time I checked wasn't it a bad thing to put a lot of weight in the front of a multi (any multi)? Seems like the extra headroom and storage in the front is only going to encourage loading the front down. That could be interesting.

 

more bow volume also buoyancy...

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You are joking right? There's no way that corsair boats are not going to be confused with Farriers any more

 

"no way ... are not ...any more". Double or Triple negation, ..I'm lost

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Ha! You are right, that's gibberish. One more go.....

 

 

You are joking right? There is no way that Corsair boats can be confused with Farrier designs now.

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I like it .....( for the folks who are not gettin the sarcasm ... I do NOT like the raised foredeck, it looks like one of those real old S2's )

 

this way my F 33 looks outright sexy ( compared to the Corsair )

Not that I ever did not like the looks of my boat ...lol

 

And no there is no comparison with the F32 either obviously

 

thor

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Ha! You are right, that's gibberish. One more go.....

 

 

You are joking right? There is no way that Corsair boats can be confused with Farrier designs now.

 

OK, no even I can understand what you were saying...

 

I didn't say I'd like (or *love*) it, but at least on the trailer the boat does not look that ugly. No?

On the water, I am less enthousiastic. But all that is a matter of taste, and personal.

 

While I liked the lines of the original Sprint 750 better, I am now used to the more modern and squared looks of my Sprint Mk II. And frankly, I do not care anymore about that. The new Sprint has a larger floats and a more useful cabin than the old one, and THAT is what counts for me. The same will be true for the new Cruze: people will buy it if the offer corresponds to their needs. Looks come second, as always...

 

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Looks very nice, but why end the aft cabin so far forward of the stern? Wouldn't that be 'free' extra cabin space?

The hull and ama aft rocker is dreadful, as ever. Except for IF's theory that we would all die by following seas without it; is there a good reason for it?

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Ha! You are right, that's gibberish. One more go.....

 

 

You are joking right? There is no way that Corsair boats can be confused with Farrier designs now.

 

OK, no even I can understand what you were saying...

 

I didn't say I'd like (or *love*) it, but at least on the trailer the boat does not look that ugly. No?

On the water, I am less enthousiastic. But all that is a matter of taste, and personal.

 

Lighthouse - the boats in the link you posted are NOT KorsairKruze32s... They are FARRIER 32SRXs carbon, built by Beca in NZ... http://www.f-boat.com/pages/News4/F-32SRs-inNZ.html

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The hull and ama aft rocker is dreadful, as ever. Except for IF's theory that we would all die by following seas without it; is there a good reason for it?

 

It gets results, both upwind and down, coupled with a very roomy cabin, and great all round performance without needing a huge rig...... My designs have always been intended to be good all round cruisers, not out and out racers, but they still perform very well. Some examples being:

 

http://www.f-boat.co...islandrace.html

http://www.f-boat.co...-9AXStMalo.html

http://www.f-boat.co...talClassic.html

 

and while not a recommended purpose, many have also safely crossed oceans, including a circumnavigation

 

http://www.f-boat.co...sletter38-1.jpg

http://www.f-boat.co...tter38Page2.jpg

 

That is when one can appreciate finer float sterns with a little more rocker

 

But the 970 aft float shape is not what I would do, and it is also interesting to see what may now be put on top of my old F-31 hulls and folding system. My concept of a production 32 with modern lines would be more like :

 

post-18231-0-69889900-1355867911_thumb.jpg

 

But it's not April 1st is it? There is actually no mention of the 'Cruze 970' on Corsair's web site?

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs That Work

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But it's not April 1st is it? There is actually no mention of the 'Cruze 970' on Corsair's web site?

 

 

Good call, I thought the same. Surely with such a 'big ' new model release they would have a bit more than that one appalling graphic in the press kit?

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But it's not April 1st is it? There is actually no mention of the 'Cruze 970' on Corsair's web site?

 

 

Good call, I thought the same. Surely with such a 'big ' new model release they would have a bit more than that one appalling graphic in the press kit?

Couldn't find a hint of it on the web site. Seems like they are putting more crap, um, content on Facebook rather than the web site. You would think that simple questions like, "Where are the Class Rule or Where can I buy spare parts?" would be something useful to put on a website. Guess not. It always surprises me how boat builders miss the one thing that matters most in selling boats - Marketing.

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bah, any staff member can put stuff on facebook, in between their other office jobs

 

but putting stuff on the webpage, for most companies, requires an expensive IT professional

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They need to offer an option for a dedicated head/shower. My wife and I would interested in this boat with forward compartment dedicated to head/shower and storage. I believe this was the layout of the previous C-31UC.

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Yep, there are PDF"s a press release and even pricing........156K ex-works no sails.

 

So I assume about 200K equipped and landed...a bit rich for my blood. But someone will buy them.

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Glad the latest line drawing shows the boat with more rational proportions.

 

post-180-0-99106200-1356133328_thumb.jpg

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This raised an eyebrow-

"..As always, Corsair’s exclusive and trusted folding system .."

 

As you surmise, the above statement is incorrect. Corsair does not have exclusive rights to what is my older second generation folding system, and lost any right to use my name or call it the Farrier Folding System™ in 2001.

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

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Not to open (again) the same old can of worms, but would it be fair to assume that

Corsair has modified / improved / further developed that folding system since 2001 ?!

 

I can only speak for the various 24 footers...they all use identical beams and folding system, as designed by Ian Farrier for the design that was eventually put into production by Corsair as the F24 mk II. From the original F24 mk1 thru the new sprint 750 mkII and Dash 750 mkII....identical beams and folding systems.

 

Considering that up until the release of the Cruze 970 (which i believe is still vaporware?) the 24 has been the only boat that corsair has modified in any significant way, and thru all of that messing about the one thing they did not tinker with was the folding system, then i think your assumtion can be easily disproven.

 

Looking at the issued drawings of the proposed Cruze 970 the beams look identical to the F31 beams, as do the beam pockets in the main hull. Looking at the changes to the boat, no changes to the folding system would be necessary. Why reinvent the wheel when you have no one on staff smart enough (as is my opinion) to work out the geometry and do the composite engineering? Sure you could farm that work out, but then you would tout that in your marketing campaign...so who is doing design and composite engineering at Corsair these days?

 

Mike

F242 Littlewing

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Now that the 24s and 31 are all redesigned, it's probably just a matter of time, a very short, time before the 28 gets the Bull Terrier treatment. Good on them.

 

"Lookin Good"

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It wouldnt be hard to make a whole lot better Corsair than Corsair do ( at no extra build cost) ,just need to upgrade everything that has been the same for 20 years

I guess starting on the interior is a marketing choice?

The new Dash/sprint Mk11 arma's are still 10 +years behind the times

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Kinda looks like they're trying to turn it into a Dragonfly. The somewhat sad thing is the note that the 31 is no longer built, passing of an era...

 

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Now that the 24s and 31 are all redesigned, it's probably just a matter of time, a very short, time before the 28 gets the Bull Terrier treatment. Good on them.

The Corsair 28 models will be dumped and so will the 31's. That's what the strategy was from way back in 2008 when they first started the idea of this new model. Too many models too many costs.

Also I believe the first C970 Cruze is coming to Far North Queensland, Australia

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So after reading the Corsair 36 thread I'm curious who did the design and engineering math for Corsair on this project.

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So after reading the Corsair 36 thread I'm curious who did the design and engineering math for Corsair on this project.

 

Makes one wonder, doesn't it. Wasn't Corsair Marine founded by the same family that started WAL-MART? You would think they could afford engineers.

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Now that the 24s and 31 are all redesigned, it's probably just a matter of time, a very short, time before the 28 gets the Bull Terrier treatment. Good on them.

The Corsair 28 models will be dumped and so will the 31's. That's what the strategy was from way back in 2008 when they first started the idea of this new model. Too many models too many costs.

Also I believe the first C970 Cruze is coming to Far North Queensland, Australia

 

Site says 31 already out of production. Word has come that replacement beams for 27s and 24s are also no longer available.

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So after reading the Corsair 36 thread I'm curious who did the design and engineering math for Corsair on this project.

That question has been posed many many times, and no answer was ever given. "In-house" can mean anything.

 

 

So after reading the Corsair 36 thread I'm curious who did the design and engineering math for Corsair on this project.

 

Makes one wonder, doesn't it. Wasn't Corsair Marine founded by the same family that started WAL-MART? You would think they could afford engineers.

It was, they did - Ian Farrier!

But Walton is long gone, Ian has not been associated with them for a long long time, and their more recent decision process has been really .... odd.

(Meaning poor design engineering, spotty QC, poor customer support, ugly designs, and now ending parts support for their most popular and famous existing models.)

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So after reading the Corsair 36 thread I'm curious who did the design and engineering math for Corsair on this project.

That question has been posed many many times, and no answer was ever given. "In-house" can mean anything.

 

>

So after reading the Corsair 36 thread I'm curious who did the design and engineering math for Corsair on this project.

 

Makes one wonder, doesn't it. Wasn't Corsair Marine founded by the same family that started WAL-MART? You would think they could afford engineers.

It was, they did - Ian Farrier!

But Walton is long gone, Ian has not been associated with them for a long long time, and their more recent decision process has been really .... odd.

(Meaning poor design engineering, spotty QC, poor customer support, ugly designs, and now ending parts support for their most popular and famous existing models.)

 

 

Every Corsair I have seen from Vietnam has actually looked quite good. Would you be specific on your claims as I find the current management is actually quite good and their sales seem pretty solid right now. They must be doing something right.

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nice, looks like a lot of headroom

 

Vietnamese people are not that long ;-)

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Is that a raised aft cockpit with sleeping quarters underneath? This type of setup might be nice where the weather is warm, but there's no place to sail from that's not totally exposed to the elements. One of the issues with my Contour was that there was no way to protect the helm from the full force of the elements. A dodger would have been too far forward due to the crossbeams. Looks similar here.

 

Now - a center cockpit, and yes, smaller interior main cabin, but larger sleeper gets you out of the weather, but the controllability of the outboard now is an issue.

 

Choices, choices.

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nice, looks like a lot of headroom

 

Vietnamese people are not that long ;-)

Head Room varies from 6 ft 3 inches to 6 ft in main/forward cabin . About 3ft in aft bunk . has both centre cockpit / aft cabin with aft seats all in one , best of both worlds , extra large hatch in deck to access aft cabin . Works well , aft cabin deck about the same length as a 37 so heaps of room outside but lot more room than a 31 inside .

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Is that a raised aft cockpit with sleeping quarters underneath? This type of setup might be nice where the weather is warm, but there's no place to sail from that's not totally exposed to the elements. One of the issues with my Contour was that there was no way to protect the helm from the full force of the elements. A dodger would have been too far forward due to the crossbeams. Looks similar here.

 

Now - a center cockpit, and yes, smaller interior main cabin, but larger sleeper gets you out of the weather, but the controllability of the outboard now is an issue.

 

Choices, choices.

See post above ! Motor is linked to tiller when motoring . very simple and it works !

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nice, looks like a lot of headroom

Vietnamese people are not that long ;-)

Head Room varies from 6 ft 3 inches to 6 ft in main/forward cabin . About 3ft in aft bunk . has both centre cockpit / aft cabin with aft seats all in one , best of both worlds , extra large hatch in deck to access aft cabin . Works well , aft cabin deck about the same length as a 37 so heaps of room outside but lot more room than a 31 inside .

 

How long are the forward and aft berths

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Well my first impression is that it looks a lot better than I thought it would. I skipper, but do not own, a C37CR (carbon race). We have modified it somewhat for racing. Based on my experience on the 37, the aft seats and aft sleeping cabin are both excellent and if I were designing a tri under 40' it would include them for sure. The aft cabin is the favored bunk on the boat and steering from the aft seats while cruising is really nice. The larger floats are great and needed badly. I have stuffed the bows on a 31R many times. I am sure for a racer cruiser the cruising part will be very nice compared to other fast tris in this size range. You can't under state the need for an enclosed head for cruising and distance racing with some civility My concerns based on what I see in these photos are: short taveler, not sure how to put a long tiller extensions to the floats for racing ( can't beat the visibility from steering out there!), shorter mast then the 31, what do the foils look like ( the drawings show both low and high aspect boards), how much does it weigh compared to a 31R.

 

I am actually glad the spars are aluminum. All of our issues with the 37 have involved the corsair built carbon spars. The boat itself has been fine but we have been through two booms and had the mast rebuilt at Hall spars. if Corsair contracted the spars out to an experienced spar maker the boat would have been heads and tails better.

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nice, looks like a lot of headroom

Vietnamese people are not that long ;-)

Head Room varies from 6 ft 3 inches to 6 ft in main/forward cabin . About 3ft in aft bunk . has both centre cockpit / aft cabin with aft seats all in one , best of both worlds , extra large hatch in deck to access aft cabin . Works well , aft cabin deck about the same length as a 37 so heaps of room outside but lot more room than a 31 inside .

 

How long are the forward and aft berths

All bunks are 2 metres long ( 6ft 6 1/2 inches )

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Well my first impression is that it looks a lot better than I thought it would. I skipper, but do not own, a C37CR (carbon race). We have modified it somewhat for racing. Based on my experience on the 37, the aft seats and aft sleeping cabin are both excellent and if I were designing a tri under 40' it would include them for sure. The aft cabin is the favored bunk on the boat and steering from the aft seats while cruising is really nice. The larger floats are great and needed badly. I have stuffed the bows on a 31R many times. I am sure for a racer cruiser the cruising part will be very nice compared to other fast tris in this size range. You can't under state the need for an enclosed head for cruising and distance racing with some civility My concerns based on what I see in these photos are: short taveler, not sure how to put a long tiller extensions to the floats for racing ( can't beat the visibility from steering out there!), shorter mast then the 31, what do the foils look like ( the drawings show both low and high aspect boards), how much does it weigh compared to a 31R.

 

I am actually glad the spars are aluminum. All of our issues with the 37 have involved the corsair built carbon spars. The boat itself has been fine but we have been through two booms and had the mast rebuilt at Hall spars. if Corsair contracted the spars out to an experienced spar maker the boat would have been heads and tails better.

Yes the travellor is shorter and has been subject to much debate but it was great for the helmsman to duck behind the boom when tacking . Seats are super comfortable for cruising ( all boats are a compromise ) Tiller has been designed so that the TWO tiller extension goes under the seats for helming from the floats . Foils are similar to 31 1D and are very efficient .

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For the cruising part, I also hope that the build quality has been put at least a coiple of knocks up. Corsair is relatively cheap in purchase, yet that often shows in the interior... If they intend to compete with Dragonfly, this is the first thing to improve.

For a boat this size, having at least 1 bunk that is longer then 2 meters would have been nice, at least for the European market :) .

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Well my first impression is that it looks a lot better than I thought it would. I skipper, but do not own, a C37CR (carbon race). We have modified it somewhat for racing. Based on my experience on the 37, the aft seats and aft sleeping cabin are both excellent and if I were designing a tri under 40' it would include them for sure. The aft cabin is the favored bunk on the boat and steering from the aft seats while cruising is really nice. The larger floats are great and needed badly. I have stuffed the bows on a 31R many times. I am sure for a racer cruiser the cruising part will be very nice compared to other fast tris in this size range. You can't under state the need for an enclosed head for cruising and distance racing with some civility My concerns based on what I see in these photos are: short taveler, not sure how to put a long tiller extensions to the floats for racing ( can't beat the visibility from steering out there!), shorter mast then the 31, what do the foils look like ( the drawings show both low and high aspect boards), how much does it weigh compared to a 31R.

 

I am actually glad the spars are aluminum. All of our issues with the 37 have involved the corsair built carbon spars. The boat itself has been fine but we have been through two booms and had the mast rebuilt at Hall spars. if Corsair contracted the spars out to an experienced spar maker the boat would have been heads and tails better.

Yes the travellor is shorter and has been subject to much debate but it was great for the helmsman to duck behind the boom when tacking . Seats are super comfortable for cruising ( all boats are a compromise ) Tiller has been designed so that the TWO tiller extension goes under the seats for helming from the floats . Foils are similar to 31 1D and are very efficient .

Thanks. Good info. We use two12' sticks on the 37' also but they are just forward of the seats.

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The position of the traveler and the lack of being able to shower inside is a disapointment.

There is a shower inside , complete with pump for pumping out . Just need a curtain to keep bunk dry . Curtain was not fitted to first boat because the owner did not want it . Head is private enough if no one in fwd bunk ( who would really use the head if someone was in there ? ) The shower on the transom will be used on this boat as it will live in the tropics . The traveler works as it is , if it becomes an issue after more time on the boat we will change it !

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For the cruising part, I also hope that the build quality has been put at least a coiple of knocks up. Corsair is relatively cheap in purchase, yet that often shows in the interior... If they intend to compete with Dragonfly, this is the first thing to improve.

For a boat this size, having at least 1 bunk that is longer then 2 meters would have been nice, at least for the European market :) .

Aft Bunk could easily be extended to 2.5 Metres for all you super tall Dutchmen and Germans !! Interior is easily the nicest ever to come out of Corsair while keeping the weight under control ! Weight of first boat including all equip and engine and sails as weighed before launch 2100 kg , approx 1000 kg lighter than the published weight of a Dragonfly 32 !

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That sounds good: weight is everything on a tri! 1000 kilo's lighter is great. Hopefully the quality of finish get's to be closer to a DF then before...

>2 meter bunks sounds good too :)

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Any chance of a fully enclosed head like on the older 31's, it's a tough sell to women without it, especialiy on a boat that is $200,000 delivered.

 

The position of the traveler and the lack of being able to shower inside is a disapointment.

There is a shower inside , complete with pump for pumping out . Just need a curtain to keep bunk dry . Curtain was not fitted to first boat because the owner did not want it . Head is private enough if no one in fwd bunk ( who would really use the head if someone was in there ? ) The shower on the transom will be used on this boat as it will live in the tropics . The traveler works as it is , if it becomes an issue after more time on the boat we will change it !

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Who is the naval architect, who designed the 970?

The same committee who designed the Corsair 36...probably. The best one could hope for would be that they farmed out the composite structural engineering to some one with a reputation of knowing what they are doing. This would cost money, and certainly, having spent the money on real engineering, the PR dept would leverage off the reputation of the engineer in the sales literature as evidence that the company learned from its failings with the Corsair 36 debacle.

 

Draw your own conclusion...

 

Mike

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The same committee who designed the Corsair 36...p

Wrong

Mr T.G ?

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wrong ? Mr TG .. ??? could you guys please let the uninformed know who it would be ..maybe a name ?

Its Ok if Mr Paul Koch signs up for it .... or a Design team working for Corsair....

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Who is the naval architect, who designed the 970?

The same committee who designed the Corsair 36...probably. The best one could hope for would be that they farmed out the composite structural engineering to some one with a reputation of knowing what they are doing. This would cost money, and certainly, having spent the money on real engineering, the PR dept would leverage off the reputation of the engineer in the sales literature as evidence that the company learned from its failings with the Corsair 36 debacle.

 

Draw your own conclusion...

 

Mike

 

Care to explain your comment? Why are you saying this?

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Care to explain your comment? Why are you saying this?

Because I, too, would like to know who is doing the design and engineering at Corsair Marine these days, something that Corsair Marine has been keeping secret since the spectacular failure of the Corsair 36. Which comment are you having trouble with?

 

Mike

Corsair 24 number 121, Littlewing, for sale http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/photo_gallery.jsp?&hosturl=windcraft&&ywo=windcraft&slim=broker&boat_id=2600390&boatname=24%27+Corsair+F-24+MkII&photo_revised_date=1367532180000&photo_name=on+trailer+front+view&photo=0&url=

 

Farrier Marine F22R number 7, on order

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Who is the naval architect, who designed the 970?

What I am about to say here is my personal opinion and not to be taken as a statement from Corsair Marine or anyone in the management there .

 

I know most of you guys on here love to throw shit at Corsair . The fact is Corsair Marine since 1994 has been a relatively small private company struggling to survive in an extremely tough market and we have had little time or resources or inclination to respond to the self appointed experts who love to spend their leisure time on websites such as this .When we left the USA we had 40 employees and could not afford any Engineers on staff , now Corsair employee about 200 people with a good size design and engineering department employing at least 6 qualified Engineers and many back up CAD draftsmen .

 

I owned Corsair from 1994 to 2010 and I have been the guy responsible for getting all Corsair Designs implemented except the F-27 and F-24 Mk1 from the drawing board to production since 1990 at Ostac and then later at Corsair since 1994 .That list includes , 4 variations of the 31 , 2 of the 28 , the 24 mk11 ,the 36 and The sprint 750 in Australia and USA .

 

The Sprint Mk11 , the Dash 750 , Dash 750 Mk11 , the 37 , the Cruze 970 have all been done in last 6 years in Vietnam .

 

Corsair employ many Engineers currently and have in the past had a Qualified experienced Naval Architect on Staff . We have used and continue to use many outside engineering and design companies over the years for various projects . In those years we have built about 1800 boats .

 

Occasionally someone miscalculates something and occasionally there is a mistake in the design implementation . WE always fix the problem if we stuff up .

 

If Corsair took 6 years to get a new boat in to production there would not be any Corsair out there to throw shit at , that is a commercial reality . In the last 6 years Corsair has built at least 200 boats and put 4 new models into production , and built a world class manufacturing facility in Vietnam which builds way better boats than ever came out of the good old USA !

 

Buy a Corsair Trimaran with confidence , it is still the best built , best value small Trimaran on the market .

 

I have to say that it has been a tough and eventful 25 years building in the boat industry with many ups and downs and it has been hard to keep ones passion for sailing and boat building . I don't think I am totally finished with it yet so watch this space in the future !

 

For all you knockers out there I say " get stuffed " , go and create something yourself and see how easy it is .

 

Good luck to all the dedicated guys who are still at Corsair Marine and Ian Farrier with his F-22 , keep doing what you believe in !

 

This will be my first and last post on this subject as I don't even work at Corsair anymore , finally I am going sailing on a Corsair Cruze 970 and I don't know when I am coming back !

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Thanks for the answer Paul. And I am sincerely wish you a good time sailing and having fun with the boat. There are very few self appointed experts here. You sound a little bitter even. A few things could have been easily explained and fixed in the process. Just a few folks who are wondering why there seems to be no name given whenever asked for somebody responsible for a design, might it be a good design feature or a not so good (C36) for example. Porsche Mercedes BMW do built good cars but sometimes they royaly screw up as well.

 

I for one was always very loyal to the brand, I loved my 28R. And I am the first to admit that I was on Ians back when he harped over things too much. But in all fairness Ian playes with an open deck, which cannot be said from Corsair at all times.

 

But a few things shook me up and raised eyebrows, when I looked for a bigger boat. Decided for a F33 and I never look back in that regards.

However you guys really pissed me off when you made that Corsair Nationals inclusive and did not support the existing Tri Nationals for years before that.

There is a dedicated fun group in Florida who worked hard for all Tri's and you basically ignored them and started a new only Corsair event in competition to the existing. That is not cool and would have been so easy to show some good will and at least offer a Farrier class or catch all class ( as long as 5 boats show up )

 

Off my sopbox and again all the very best to you Paul and let us know from your sailing adventures.

 

thor

f33 Grey Hound

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Care to explain your comment? Why are you saying this?

Because I, too, would like to know who is doing the design and engineering at Corsair Marine these days, something that Corsair Marine has been keeping secret since the spectacular failure of the Corsair 36. Which comment are you having trouble with?

 

Mike

Corsair 24 number 121, Littlewing, for sale http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/photo_gallery.jsp?&hosturl=windcraft&&ywo=windcraft&slim=broker&boat_id=2600390&boatname=24%27+Corsair+F-24+MkII&photo_revised_date=1367532180000&photo_name=on+trailer+front+view&photo=0&url=

 

Farrier Marine F22R number 7, on order

 

If you want to know someting, ask a question. Stop flaming. Linking the design of the Cruze to the C36 is meaningless - why not link it to the Sprint or the Dash instead? These boats are more recent and it's more likely that the design team at least could be the same. But I guess that was not the point.

 

I am not defending Corsair here for what they did or did not, but I've seen enough of the Corsair bashing. It's not funny anymore. MY Corsair is a fantastic little boat, and has been everything I hoped for so far.

 

As for the designer names and older models' problems: a (long) while back BMW was calling back to the shops a certain model, big technical problem. But nobody thinks BMW is a bad car, and nobody knows the name of the designer of their latest 3er series car. It's just normal.

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Who is the naval architect, who designed the 970?

What I am about to say here is my personal opinion and not to be taken as a statement from Corsair Marine or anyone in the management there .

 

I know most of you guys on here love to throw shit at Corsair . The fact is Corsair Marine since 1994 has been a relatively small private company struggling to survive in an extremely tough market and we have had little time or resources or inclination to respond to the self appointed experts who love to spend their leisure time on websites such as this .When we left the USA we had 40 employees and could not afford any Engineers on staff , now Corsair employee about 200 people with a good size design and engineering department employing at least 6 qualified Engineers and many back up CAD draftsmen .

 

I owned Corsair from 1994 to 2010 and I have been the guy responsible for getting all Corsair Designs implemented except the F-27 and F-24 Mk1 from the drawing board to production since 1990 at Ostac and then later at Corsair since 1994 .That list includes , 4 variations of the 31 , 2 of the 28 , the 24 mk11 ,the 36 and The sprint 750 in Australia and USA .

 

The Sprint Mk11 , the Dash 750 , Dash 750 Mk11 , the 37 , the Cruze 970 have all been done in last 6 years in Vietnam .

 

Corsair employ many Engineers currently and have in the past had a Qualified experienced Naval Architect on Staff . We have used and continue to use many outside engineering and design companies over the years for various projects . In those years we have built about 1800 boats .

 

Occasionally someone miscalculates something and occasionally there is a mistake in the design implementation . WE always fix the problem if we stuff up .

 

If Corsair took 6 years to get a new boat in to production there would not be any Corsair out there to throw shit at , that is a commercial reality . In the last 6 years Corsair has built at least 200 boats and put 4 new models into production , and built a world class manufacturing facility in Vietnam which builds way better boats than ever came out of the good old USA !

 

Buy a Corsair Trimaran with confidence , it is still the best built , best value small Trimaran on the market .

 

I have to say that it has been a tough and eventful 25 years building in the boat industry with many ups and downs and it has been hard to keep ones passion for sailing and boat building . I don't think I am totally finished with it yet so watch this space in the future !

 

For all you knockers out there I say " get stuffed " , go and create something yourself and see how easy it is .

 

Good luck to all the dedicated guys who are still at Corsair Marine and Ian Farrier with his F-22 , keep doing what you believe in !

 

This will be my first and last post on this subject as I don't even work at Corsair anymore , finally I am going sailing on a Corsair Cruze 970 and I don't know when I am coming back !

 

Nice post, Paul. Thanks for the insight. In particular the economic side of Corsair should be kept in mind.

Corsair cannot and should not be compared to the Farrier F22 venture. That would be like comparing BMW's (see post above - no I don't own a BMW lol) to hand crafted specialty/collector cars. Until the F22 is out there in numbers and at comparable prices, the F22 and the Sprint/Dash are just different boats for different buyers.

 

Paul, let us know how the 970 is doing.

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Excellent and professional way corsair handles guarantee issues. It is very easy to slag people of on forums like this. People who don't work don't make mistakes.... Way to go Corsair, the new Cruze looks great !

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Corsair cannot and should not be compared to the Farrier F22 venture. That would be like comparing BMW's (see post above - no I don't own a BMW lol) to hand crafted specialty/collector cars. Until the F22 is out there in numbers and at comparable prices, the F22 and the Sprint/Dash are just different boats for different buyers.

 

The production F-22 is not like a hand crafted specialty/collector car, otherwise we would have had some built years ago. Quality and features are (admittedly) in the high end car area, but the new F-22 is intended to be a serious and truly 'state of the art' high volume production boat. It has taken a while to develop because of the very expensive molds and fixtures required, which have had to be done on a 'pay as you go' plan. Our budget is minimal, so we could not afford to do them all at once (I even personally built the float plug) plus a completely new factory had to be setup from scratch. But it's always better to take the time to do it right as this usually produces a far better and more reliable product. Have also been developing the much larger F-XX at the same time, but more on that soon.

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

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Corsair cannot and should not be compared to the Farrier F22 venture. That would be like comparing BMW's (see post above - no I don't own a BMW lol) to hand crafted specialty/collector cars. Until the F22 is out there in numbers and at comparable prices, the F22 and the Sprint/Dash are just different boats for different buyers.

 

The production F-22 is not like a hand crafted specialty/collector car, otherwise we would have had some built years ago. Quality and features are (admittedly) in the high end car area, but the new F-22 is intended to be a serious and truly 'state of the art' high volume production boat. It has taken a while to develop because of the very expensive molds and fixtures required, which have had to be done on a 'pay as you go' plan. Our budget is minimal, so we could not afford to do them all at once (I even personally built the float plug) plus a completely new factory had to be setup from scratch. But it's always better to take the time to do it right as this usually produces a far better and more reliable product. Have also been developing the much larger F-XX at the same time, but more on that soon.

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

 

Yeah, that's all fine and dandy Ian, but who's the designer ;)

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I think the 970 is a big improvement over the 31 even with the traveler location, and I am considering buying one in the near future. I would just like to know who designed it.

I came up with the concept and led the team at Corsair that designed the boat . It obviously like all Corsair's, and Farriers for that matter , is a development of what came before it . I think as a cruising boat , which is what it is meant to be , it is a massive improvement over a 31 in many areas .

 

I have always believed in working as a team and don't have a lot of time for people with big egos who want their name up in lights which is why I have never named just one person as the designer of any boat that we have done since Ian Farrier sold us the designs at least 12 years ago .

 

Corsair Marine designed the boat as far as I am concerned !

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bhyde, on 31 May 2013 - 08:50, said:

Yeah, that's all fine and dandy Ian, but who's the designer ;)



Happy to put my name on it, and always happy to answer any design questions promptly, publicly or privately.

 

I have always believed that it is very important for any designer to communicate with clients, hear their feedback, and then act on it. Never could understand the mindset of designers hiding under the desk. All the top companies like BMW, Mercedes, Boeing etc name their heads of design or engineering. Some are not even very popular:

 

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/02/chris-bangle-le/

 

and his successor is no secret, but his cars look better.

 

The bottom line is that having one's name on the product sure tends to make one very careful about how it is designed or engineered, and then how it is made. But the necessary insistence on technical excellence and quality may not make one popular with some manufacturers.


Ian Farrier
Farrier Marine
Designs That Work

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Hmmm. The car analogy is a bit silly Ian, eg I actually know who the father of the Mazda MX5 is - met the guy a few times, But he will tell you he lead a team of many many people and THEY designed the car.

 

Equally - surely you dont think Bangle designed the pistons for example, or the ECU chip or the seat belt pyrotechnics?

 

Interesting aside, when then where designing an evolution that was going to have a roof that weighed 20 kilo more, it was critical that the overall weight remained the same so he had all members of the design TEAM car a 20 litre container of water with every part of their day, to remind them what they were all looking for.

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Hmmm. The car analogy is a bit silly Ian, eg I actually know who the father of the Mazda MX5 is - met the guy a few times, But he will tell you he lead a team of many many people and THEY designed the car.

 

Equally - surely you dont think Bangle designed the pistons for example, or the ECU chip or the seat belt pyrotechnics?

 

I think everybody is well aware that there is a whole team involved in the design of a car, but there is a named head of design, who directs the whole process and signs off on it. Others prepared to put their name on their designs include Harley Earl (GM), Alec Issigonis (Mini), Sir William Lyons (Jaguar), Soichiro Honda, not to mention icons like Enzo Ferrari.

 

However, one car that you will not find a named designer for is the East German Trabant, which was the product of a committee or 'centralized planning'. Was named as one of the worst cars ever built, and those committee members are probably still hiding under their desks.

 

There are many BMW enthusiasts is were appalled at the Bangle designs, and decided to skip a generation of designs until someone else was in charge, as is the case now. They even had petitions to get rid of him, which would have been impossible if the head of design had been kept a secret.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

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There are many BMW enthusiasts is were appalled at the Bangle designs, and decided to skip a generation of designs until someone else was in charge, as is the case now. They even had petitions to get rid of him, which would have been impossible if the head of design had been kept a secret.

 

So, let them be appalled. There were more who found the design work compelling enough to maintain BMW as a successful manufacturer. Here's an interesting quote from Wikipedia on the matter.. "...there were several online petitions pressing BMW to sack Bangle. While the sales for the 2002 and 2003 models years were off 60% from the 2001, the E65 7 series became the best-selling 7 Series of all time."

 

Telling, in the simplicity of that reality. It says everything about the customers having been awakened to the function and form and over a brief period, coming back to the marque in droves.

 

Yes, there were petitions, but they amounted to zip in the real world where the Board of Directors were firmly behind the work created by Bangle. He left BMW on his own terms only recently and the petition thing is but a tiny blemish on an otherwise sterling career on the design board. When the head of design is not mentioned for a corporate environment, then the title falls on the CEO, as it is on his watch that all functional decisions reside. I'm wondering as to why the concept of petitioning the company CEO is such a difficult concept to grasp when there is no distinct individual to be named otherwise?

 

.

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This raised an eyebrow-

"..As always, Corsair’s exclusive and trusted folding system .."

As you surmise, the above statement is incorrect. Corsair does not have exclusive rights to what is my older second generation folding system, and lost any right to use my name or call it the Farrier Folding System™ in 2001.

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

 

 

Thanks for the answer Paul. And I am sincerely wish you a good time sailing and having fun with the boat. There are very few self appointed experts here. You sound a little bitter even. A few things could have been easily explained and fixed in the process. Just a few folks who are wondering why there seems to be no name given whenever asked for somebody responsible for a design, might it be a good design feature or a not so good (C36) for example. Porsche Mercedes BMW do built good cars but sometimes they royaly screw up as well.

 

I for one was always very loyal to the brand, I loved my 28R. And I am the first to admit that I was on Ians back when he harped over things too much. But in all fairness Ian playes with an open deck, which cannot be said from Corsair at all times.

 

But a few things shook me up and raised eyebrows, when I looked for a bigger boat. Decided for a F33 and I never look back in that regards.

However you guys really pissed me off when you made that Corsair Nationals inclusive and did not support the existing Tri Nationals for years before that.

There is a dedicated fun group in Florida who worked hard for all Tri's and you basically ignored them and started a new only Corsair event in competition to the existing. That is not cool and would have been so easy to show some good will and at least offer a Farrier class or catch all class ( as long as 5 boats show up )

 

Off my sopbox and again all the very best to you Paul and let us know from your sailing adventures.

 

thor

f33 Grey Hound

Thor,

 

I am rarely on this site and as a rule don't post here anymore. The signal to noise ratio is all wrong in my opinion. I make an exception in this case because what is posted is just so wrong and unfair, it should be corrected.

 

So its clear I post under the name people know me by, am not and never have been an employee of Corsair or Farrier Marine and derive no income from either. I own an F27 and I do love some of the boats that have come from both companies. I am not a fan of the zealots that follow one group for reasons that will become obvious.

 

You are blaming Corsair for using what money they had to sponsor a Corsair event. Ignoring how inane that is, you actually might just as well blame me. I race a Laser in an OD class and love it. I race a Snipe and an Alberg in an OD class and love it. I race and have raced other boats including multihulls in OD classes and loved it. But I can only race my F27 in multihull events where there are wide rating bands (ie non class racing) and did not find the same fun. I certainly love the boat and it is a joy to sail but racing an F27 against a Gemini or Seacart (both cool boats), or even an F31 ain't my cup of tea. Its hard to impossible to make that a fair race and obviously the fun (and learning) that comes from close boat on boat interactions is lost. In talking with fellow F27 owners, I heard the same thing. Build it and we will come they said. So I worked with the manufacturer (Corsair) and built it. And they came. God forbid sailors and owners be allowed to build events to suit their own tastes. Heavens to Betsy, how dare they not consult with zealots and build and financially support an event that they want (but don't seem to support judging from the numbers)?!

 

So what did I get for all of this Thor? Other than the headaches and joy of assisting to put on an event that I think and hope people had a great time at, I got the expected hate mail from zealots. Surprisingly even my kids (pre-teen girls) got hatemail from the zealots!! My kids!!! So Thor feel free to find me and send some hate mail because I love class racing, built an event around class racing, and had support from the manufacturer of that class. And no, I did not want to invite everyone. I don't want to race my Laser against a 49er, I don't want to race my Snipe against a 505, and I did not want to race my F27 against an F33. I wanted (and heard from many sailors they they also wanted - and they showed up proving the point) to race my F27 against other F27s. Finally, if you do want to write, I can save you some time. My response will be the STFU, HTFU, get off your a** and go organize your own damn event rather than throw stones at those that do. One thing I learned about the zealots is that they complain much, they post much, but they do little.

 

I wish the zealots would leave. I really wish those that foster, encourage, and support that type of behavior would STFU. It hurts all of us.

 

Finally, I wish that there was a class of Corsair F27s and Farrier F22s both OD racing on the Chesapeake and there would be peace between our divorced parents but it seems at least one of them can't get past it.

 

Hell hath no fury like...

 

Over and out,

 

Wess

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