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Catfan

BIG TROUBLES FOR NACRA 17's OWNERS

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I copied below a couple of extracts from the online Italian sailing magazine FARE VELA and from the blog of Vittorio Bissaro and Silvia Sicouri who started a campaign to represent Italy at the 2016 Olympic Games in the mixed multihull class.

Obviously the reputation of NACRA brand is seriously hurted (expecially I add if, as it seems, they'll choose to opt for the alloy option, after having won the ISAF selection for the carbon mast and the curved boards).

 

http://www.bissaro-sicouri.it/cronaca-di-una-giornata-storta-albero-rotto/

http://www.farevela.net/2012/12/29/nacra-17-problemi-agli-alberi-in-carbonio-sospesa-la-distribuzione/

From Silvia Sicouri's blog

December 28, 2012

Report of a bad day:

broken mast

by Silvia

 

Last week we received an email from Nacra that saying that

 

"Due to quality issues with the upper section of the carbon mast, decision has been taken to suspend delivery of the Nacra 17 with the carbon mast. The Nacra17 will be delivered with an alloy mast until further notice. "

 

Of course we were concerned but we did not want to stop our training work. We were persuaded that if we had not "forced", nothing would happen.

Unfortunately it wasn’t so.

 

Today we went out on the water for our daily training session.

Conditions: 12-15 knots of Mistral, a little wave.

We managed to capsize under spinnaker. When we hang on to right our cat we heard a loud CRACK and saw the mast split in two.

 

Fortunately we were not alone but there was a boat that gave us a hand in recovering material. After 2 hours we were able to return to shore.

 

The outcome was a broken mast, a ripped mainsail, a bent turnbuckle and other minor damage to the deck. And of course the big damage that we cannot conclude our week of training ...

 

Waiting for the official action of Nacra, we are now seeking for an aluminum mast with the aim to return to the water as soon as possible.

 

(see the upper section of the mast attached to a buoy)

From FARE VELA

Marina di Grosseto- December 29, 2012

Issues with the carbon mast of the Nacra 17, the new mixed Olympic cat

The Dutch boatyard Nacra Sailing released a statement in which it warns that

"Due to quality issues with the upper section of the carbon mast, decision has been taken to suspend delivery of the Nacra 17 with the carbon mast. The Nacra 17 will be delivered with an alloy mast until further notice. "

 

The decision affects, among others, the many Italian teams who have already ordered the Nacra 17 for a mixed Olympic campaign. Among them Vittorio Bissaro and Silvia Sicouri, with whom we conducted our test a few days ago, which reported yesterday the breakage of their carbon mast during a training session in Marina di Grosseto.

Silvia Sicouri affirms in her blog tha so far NACRA delivered only 25 boats out of 250 ordered and therefore the carbon masts in circulation are relatively few and that several have reported problems.

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I don't see that " the reputation of NACRA brand is seriously hurted"

 

There is a problem with their product, they have let their customers know and they are doing what they can to rectify it. Isn't that what decent companies do?

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looks like owners could score a free alloy mast for their troubles

 

 

All teams which have already taken delivery of the Nacra 17 will receive an alloy mast and fittings to retrofit their boat.

 

We expect that delivery of the carbon mast will resume as soon as we are 100% convinced about the solution. All alloy masts in the marketplace will be swapped back to carbon masts. Instructions will follow.

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I don't see that " the reputation of NACRA brand is seriously hurted"

 

There is a problem with their product, they have let their customers know and they are doing what they can to rectify it. Isn't that what decent companies do?

+1

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I don't see that " the reputation of NACRA brand is seriously hurted"

 

There is a problem with their product, they have let their customers know and they are doing what they can to rectify it. Isn't that what decent companies do?

 

+1

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annoying that this happens after nacra emplored ISAF not to choose for the carbon mast but for the fast, tried and tested wingsection of the infusion. With the untested carbon mast, you have to rely fully on the workmanship, consistency thereof and design of your subcontractor.

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It seems like Nacra is addressing the issue appropriately. As with the development of any new boat that involves parts being sourced from various manufacturers, there can be some issues. Just look at the AC 72's. Certainly, some of these sorts of issues could be avoided if an existing class was chosen, but I am sure that things will get appropriately resolved and the Nacra 17 will prove to be an ideal boat for its intended purpose.

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All of the first 49er masts broke pretty quickly...

If you buy any fast boat that has not been in production for >3 years or >100pcs you should not expect a finished product.

HTFU.

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All of the first 49er masts broke pretty quickly...

Are you talking about prototypes or production, before or after olympic selection? When the class was selected for the olympics, we were using what was known as the Rev5, and they didn't break. I was the first to break one in the UK, by turning turtle and digging it in the mud with a big tide pushing the boat, but my other lasted until the Rev9's came out. I only remember 1 other breakage by anybody in the British team. At the Europeans, which were sailed with the first generation masts, I don't think there was a single mast breakage. In addition, I trained 3-4 days per week in all conditions and didn't break another Rev5.

 

The problem with the masts wasn't that they broke, but, because of the way the alloy track fitted to the top section, if the track was stressed you ended up with a permanent bend. You had to replace the track but then you could effect the bend characteristics by the way you fitted the new track. To stop the bend, we undid the caps after every sail.

 

While the 49er masts weren't ideal, they weren't failing to the point you couldn't train and at no point was production stopped and people were unable to get masts. What we have here is a spec being chosen (carbon masts) by ISAF when no carbon masts had been made, a manufacturer who wasn't experienced enough in making such masts and who didn't put it out to a specialist mast maker. The real issue now is what people are meant to race with. Will this be sorted by Palma and Hyere? What plans are in place to sort this issue?

 

The true mark of a company isn't its screw ups. Everybody makes them. It is how they respond and sort out the mess. We will hav eto wait a while to see how Nacra does on this score.

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Who is building the mast?

 

Like Duh!

 

Seriously. I doubt Nacra is building the CF mast themselfs...so who is building them?

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All of the first 49er masts broke pretty quickly...

Are you talking about prototypes or production, before or after olympic selection?

All the masts (50-100 pcs?) prior to Rev5 broke, that was before the Olympic selection (I believe). Rev5 did not brake, but had to be replaced nevertheless...

 

The true mark of a company isn't its screw ups. Everybody makes them. It is how they respond and sort out the mess. We will hav eto wait a while to see how Nacra does on this score.

Yup.

But it's a long way from a great boat to an olympic one design series production. How many years did it take for the 49er to get there?

Don't expect miracles.

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Who is building the mast?

 

Like Duh!

 

Seriously. I doubt Nacra is building the CF mast themselfs...so who is building them?

 

CMI the builder of the boats have also built the carbon masts.

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All of the first 49er masts broke pretty quickly...

If you buy any fast boat that has not been in production for >3 years or >100pcs you should not expect a finished product.

HTFU.

 

+1

New product=unforseeable Peculiarities

 

Good news? Nacra management is quite sincere about making sure the customer is satisfied.

 

Personally, I would just ditch the carbon masts, until such a time in manufacturing history that they can proven to be both affordable and reliable...The N20 showed exactly how a great boat can be immediately moribund by an unaffordable OD mast. A very hasty precedent for the governance body to mandate a carbon mast on this platform.

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I wish Nacra in Holland had been so helpful with all the problems I have had with my F20 Carbon, their customer service over that has been utterly appauling... I have made several complaints and not even had a response over the course of about 4 months.

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" Nacra management is quite sincere about making sure the customer is satisfied"

 

....Unless you live in the US.

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" Nacra management is quite sincere about making sure the customer is satisfied"

 

....Unless you live in the US.

 

Or anywhere outside of Holland... Having said that, Nacra UK were very helpful, but they still couldn't get a result out of Nacra HQ. They only care about selling boats, their aftersales support is really poor, especially with problems like snapped daggerboards which they admitted were faulty but failed to replace without me having to pay for a new one! I can see a few national sailing associations becoming very frustrated with them of the coming years...

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I agree, they have absolute contempt for customers outside of Holland

money money money give give now now now

how about my part?

stop caling you are harrassing me

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Well damn

 

I bet people who owned the Bimare Jav 18HT would have loved free replacements on their stuff.

 

God knows enough of it broke.

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Well damn

 

I bet people who owned the Bimare Jav 18HT would have loved free replacements on their stuff.

 

God knows enough of it broke.

 

if you are a man nacra is not correct on your part to unfair advertising. in 14 years I know of only two mast Bimare broken because of a twister, the mast weighs 14 kg and is very long, 10 m, this shows the quality Bimare, I do not understand why you have to talk to Bimare nacra in a forum? indeed, I think I will propose my mast to nacra.

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Boat looked damned good in Miami yesterday. © Meredith Block/Star Winter Series photo, reproduction with credit only.

 

2013starwinterseriesmid.jpg

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I agree, they have absolute contempt for customers outside of Holland

money money money give give now now now

how about my part?

stop caling you are harrassing me

 

please provide specific instances so i can talk directly to NACRA and get their take. I am hearing quite a few bad NACRA stories but they are mixed with quite a few good ones so i need details.

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Well damn

 

I bet people who owned the Bimare Jav 18HT would have loved free replacements on their stuff.

 

God knows enough of it broke.

 

if you are a man nacra is not correct on your part to unfair advertising. in 14 years I know of only two mast Bimare broken because of a twister, the mast weighs 14 kg and is very long, 10 m, this shows the quality Bimare, I do not understand why you have to talk to Bimare nacra in a forum? indeed, I think I will propose my mast to nacra.

 

The only reason I brought up Bimare is because CATFAN is the official Bimare paid promoter on this website and guaranteed he posted this thread in an effort to smack around the competition.

 

The point I was making is that in 2004, the 18HT's literally fell apart in the Tybee 500 and in other instances. Some of my good friends were marooned on a Georgia mudflat overnight because the boat was coming apart at the seams.

 

Fact of the matter is all new boats have teething problems, and this is just one of them. I don't think I can name a single "1st generation" boat that hasn't had some kind of issue that needed revision.

 

please provide specific instances so i can talk directly to NACRA and get their take. I am hearing quite a few bad NACRA stories but they are mixed with quite a few good ones so i need details.

Clean,

 

It all depends on the dealer in my experience. Working directly with NACRA US themselves can be frustrating since its run as a "recreational business" but once you get the modus operandi over there, its easy to reshape expectations.

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Clean,

 

I won't bash NACRA, as I own one and find their product comparable with the competition. The New England dealer is wonderful and takes care of his patrons. The issue is usually one of supply-it can be difficult getting replacement parts for example, not everything is available and in state stateside. I'm talking things like rudder pintails, rudder goosenecks (parts that tend to explode during distance races), and jib halyard rings that are custom to the platform. Others have had issues with warranty work, specifically getting replacement daggerboards out of Nacra after they clearly identified a build process/structural failure.

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Clean,

 

My experience has been this. I bought a Nacra F20 Carbon second hand from BNR Watersports in Holland (one of the approved Nacra second hand dealers I was lead to believe at the time as it went to their website when I clicked on the 'used boats' section on nacrasailing.com this is no longer the case).

 

Having bought the boat and had it delivered we rigged it went sailing a couple of times in sub 10 knots just to check it all worked, the third time we went out in about 12knts we made a leeward mark rounding and the starboard daggerboard snapped in half. Having then approached Nacra we were told that we would have to pay for a new one as our boat was no longer under warranty (the boat had been sailed less than 10 times on a lake before we bought it so never came under real load). However after my boat they revised the design of the daggerboards to include and extra stringer and more carbon to make then more robust. The weight of them has increased from 3.7kgs to 5.5kgs so it proves that there is more 'material' in them. To me this is like when a car manufacturer admits a fault in its original design and replaces it free of charge often including labour, like they have done with the alloy masts on the 17. That is good customer service.

 

I sent numerous emails to Gunnar Larson and Peter Vink but they never replied to any of them, I ended up having to purchase a new daggerboard. They are a very expensive item!

 

Having spent a serious chunk of cash on the boat it left a very bitter taste in the mouth to think that the owners of the companies 'flagship' model meant nothing to them and they would rather not have the hassle of 'annoying customers' to ruin their ability to sell more boats and enjoy racing at all the regattas around the world that they do.

 

After the new daggerboard arrived, it didn't even fit into the slot, so more money later we are having to get someone to help fix this situation as the new daggerboard is slightly thicker about 20% up from the bottom.

 

Don't get me wrong it is an incredible boat, but Nacra HQ's customer service is some of the worst I have experienced, up their with budget airlines and hire car companies! However Nacra UK have been amazing and I cannot thank Carl Jones and Grant Piggot enough for all they have done to help with this situation and get us back on the water.

 

Readie1

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Well damn

 

I bet people who owned the Bimare Jav 18HT would have loved free replacements on their stuff.

 

God knows enough of it broke.

 

if you are a man nacra is not correct on your part to unfair advertising. in 14 years I know of only two mast Bimare broken because of a twister, the mast weighs 14 kg and is very long, 10 m, this shows the quality Bimare, I do not understand why you have to talk to Bimare nacra in a forum? indeed, I think I will propose my mast to nacra.

 

The only reason I brought up Bimare is because CATFAN is the official Bimare paid promoter on this website and guaranteed he posted this thread in an effort to smack around the competition.

 

The point I was making is that in 2004, the 18HT's literally fell apart in the Tybee 500 and in other instances. Some of my good friends were marooned on a Georgia mudflat overnight because the boat was coming apart at the seams.

 

Fact of the matter is all new boats have teething problems, and this is just one of them. I don't think I can name a single "1st generation" boat that hasn't had some kind of issue that needed revision.

 

please provide specific instances so i can talk directly to NACRA and get their take. I am hearing quite a few bad NACRA stories but they are mixed with quite a few good ones so i need details.

Clean,

 

It all depends on the dealer in my experience. Working directly with NACRA US themselves can be frustrating since its run as a "recreational business" but once you get the modus operandi over there, its easy to reshape expectations.

 

I think the balls of shit that you launched unfairly in the past you are going back, thinking that in the past it was more difficult to make high-tech of today. I remind you that the tybee 500 was a tough race and extreme, it is normal to break some appendix in all types of boat, not only bim 18 ht, you also remember that 18 ht Bimare was chosen for the Worrell 1000 "hardest race of tybee500 "but unfortunately without beginning. I repeat, is not Catfan customer Bimare, did not do business with us, it is a normal catamaran enthusiast who likes our work, the same as many other people who defend other trademarks on this forum.

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English please? Sorry, but the reality is other manufacturers didn't suffer near the same fate you are mentioning. Worrell is not Tybee and those reasons are highly political. Every F18 or N20 built by the major manufacturers could stand up to a Tybee when new. I'm not saying Bimare makes a bad product, nor that others haven't had toothing pains, but its pretty clear by the lack of F18HT's in the U.S that the boats couldn't stand up to American punishment.

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Clean,

 

My experience has been this. I bought a Nacra F20 Carbon second hand from BNR Watersports in Holland (one of the approved Nacra second hand dealers I was lead to believe at the time as it went to their website when I clicked on the 'used boats' section on nacrasailing.com this is no longer the case).

 

Having bought the boat and had it delivered we rigged it went sailing a couple of times in sub 10 knots just to check it all worked, the third time we went out in about 12knts we made a leeward mark rounding and the starboard daggerboard snapped in half. Having then approached Nacra we were told that we would have to pay for a new one as our boat was no longer under warranty (the boat had been sailed less than 10 times on a lake before we bought it so never came under real load). However after my boat they revised the design of the daggerboards to include and extra stringer and more carbon to make then more robust. The weight of them has increased from 3.7kgs to 5.5kgs so it proves that there is more 'material' in them. To me this is like when a car manufacturer admits a fault in its original design and replaces it free of charge often including labour, like they have done with the alloy masts on the 17. That is good customer service.

 

I sent numerous emails to Gunnar Larson and Peter Vink but they never replied to any of them, I ended up having to purchase a new daggerboard. They are a very expensive item!

 

Having spent a serious chunk of cash on the boat it left a very bitter taste in the mouth to think that the owners of the companies 'flagship' model meant nothing to them and they would rather not have the hassle of 'annoying customers' to ruin their ability to sell more boats and enjoy racing at all the regattas around the world that they do.

 

After the new daggerboard arrived, it didn't even fit into the slot, so more money later we are having to get someone to help fix this situation as the new daggerboard is slightly thicker about 20% up from the bottom.

 

Don't get me wrong it is an incredible boat, but Nacra HQ's customer service is some of the worst I have experienced, up their with budget airlines and hire car companies! However Nacra UK have been amazing and I cannot thank Carl Jones and Grant Piggot enough for all they have done to help with this situation and get us back on the water.

 

Readie1

 

Where is Nacra HQ and who runs it?

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Address global main office:

NACRA SAILING INTERNATIONAL

Hellingweg 110-120

2583DX Den Haag

The Netherlands

If you wish to have contact with us please send us an email by using the following address: info(at)nacrasailing.com or use the contactform on the right.

 

You can also reach us by phone during business hours on:

+31(0) 70 338 29 00

Our opening-hours:

Tuesday 9:00 -17:30 Wednesday 9:00 -17:30 Thursday 9:00 -17:30 Friday 9:00 -17:30 Saturday 9:00 -17:30

time zone is central europe.

According to what is published the business is run by Peter Vink and Gunnar Larson

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I am tired to repeat that I have no links with BIMARE.

Sincerely I do not understand either the reason why the Italian boatyards have so many detractors in this Forum.

If it is still on the market and with the same owners since 1975, (as far as I know only Hobie Cat and Nacra are somewhat older but they have changed hand many times in the meanwhile), it must have some merit to keep persuading customers to buy its products for almost 40 years.

 

That said I read above a few inaccurate statements regarding to the Javelin 18HT and the Tybee 500: all the the US Javelin owners I dealt with told me that the 18HT (for its unirig sail plan) is not the most suited design to sail long distance races but for sure they did not experienced a bigger failure rate than sailing other cats.

 

Returning to the NACRA 17 topic, as usual I report facts (I would like that my libellers do the same). My source is again the blog of Vittorio Bissaro and Sivia Sicuori.

 

http://www.bissaro-sicouri.it/en/diario-di-bordo-prima-giornate-dacqua-con-lalbero

-in-alluminio/

 

I don't know if the English translation is accurate.

They said that got the replacement aluminium mast from Nacra Europe (only the bare tube I understood so that they had to get the fittings from the broken carbon mast).

The aluminium tube is 5 Kg heavier than the carbon section and has a much bigger rated surface (almost 1 sq meter). So far they did not have problems with it

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English please? Sorry, but the reality is other manufacturers didn't suffer near the same fate you are mentioning. Worrell is not Tybee and those reasons are highly political. Every F18 or N20 built by the major manufacturers could stand up to a Tybee when new. I'm not saying Bimare makes a bad product, nor that others haven't had toothing pains, but its pretty clear by the lack of F18HT's in the U.S that the boats couldn't stand up to American punishment.

 

ok, you prefer in German or French? I will not fan these unnecessary discussions but if you continue to write bad Bimare I must defend it. the 18th ht in America has won the "Boat of the Year" winning almost every race even hard ones, has proven to be very durable, I remind you that its weight is less than 50 kg in comparison with the competing boats, and its carbon mast 10.5 mt was not really performing in extreme conditions such as tybee 500. maybe the big problem was just the dealer, after 2 years he abandoned the class, and customers.

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English please? Sorry, but the reality is other manufacturers didn't suffer near the same fate you are mentioning. Worrell is not Tybee and those reasons are highly political. Every F18 or N20 built by the major manufacturers could stand up to a Tybee when new. I'm not saying Bimare makes a bad product, nor that others haven't had toothing pains, but its pretty clear by the lack of F18HT's in the U.S that the boats couldn't stand up to American punishment.

 

ok, you prefer in German or French? I will not fan these unnecessary discussions but if you continue to write bad Bimare I must defend it. the 18th ht in America has won the "Boat of the Year" winning almost every race even hard ones, has proven to be very durable, I remind you that its weight is less than 50 kg in comparison with the competing boats, and its carbon mast 10.5 mt was not really performing in extreme conditions such as tybee 500. maybe the big problem was just the dealer, after 2 years he abandoned the class, and customers.

 

I was at the 2003 Tybee 500 and saw FIRST HAND how big of a piece of shit the Jav 2 was. That year was a fucking lolipop ride for a Tybee 500 and I saw more than one transom tear out without hitting ANYTHING. Not to mention William Sunnucks encouter with a measly stingray (not a turtle) tore the daggerboard about 2-3 feet through the bottom of the hull. Regardless of where that boat was made, it is crap and anywhere you could add duct tape to it would be an improvement. "Boat of the Year" badge doesn't mean a damn thing. That's merely an article. I don't think a single owner would have given it much more praise than a Hobie Wave (which would have been more likely to make every leg of the Worrell 1000 without breaking apart)

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English please? Sorry, but the reality is other manufacturers didn't suffer near the same fate you are mentioning. Worrell is not Tybee and those reasons are highly political. Every F18 or N20 built by the major manufacturers could stand up to a Tybee when new. I'm not saying Bimare makes a bad product, nor that others haven't had toothing pains, but its pretty clear by the lack of F18HT's in the U.S that the boats couldn't stand up to American punishment.

 

ok, you prefer in German or French? I will not fan these unnecessary discussions but if you continue to write bad Bimare I must defend it. the 18th ht in America has won the "Boat of the Year" winning almost every race even hard ones, has proven to be very durable, I remind you that its weight is less than 50 kg in comparison with the competing boats, and its carbon mast 10.5 mt was not really performing in extreme conditions such as tybee 500. maybe the big problem was just the dealer, after 2 years he abandoned the class, and customers.

 

I was at the 2003 Tybee 500 and saw FIRST HAND how big of a piece of shit the Jav 2 was. That year was a fucking lolipop ride for a Tybee 500 and I saw more than one transom tear out without hitting ANYTHING. Not to mention William Sunnucks encouter with a measly stingray (not a turtle) tore the daggerboard about 2-3 feet through the bottom of the hull. Regardless of where that boat was made, it is crap and anywhere you could add duct tape to it would be an improvement. "Boat of the Year" badge doesn't mean a damn thing. That's merely an article. I don't think a single owner would have given it much more praise than a Hobie Wave (which would have been more likely to make every leg of the Worrell 1000 without breaking apart)

 

it is impossible to discuss with people false, these are false information until you have proven with real evidence, we are not to know problems of this kind and nobody has complained about these issues directly with Bimare. therefore, without real evidence what you say has no truth. very hard and extreme events are also found in Europe and 18 ht has not had any break of this type, ever. But now stop this topic does not interest anyone. please.

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English please? Sorry, but the reality is other manufacturers didn't suffer near the same fate you are mentioning. Worrell is not Tybee and those reasons are highly political. Every F18 or N20 built by the major manufacturers could stand up to a Tybee when new. I'm not saying Bimare makes a bad product, nor that others haven't had toothing pains, but its pretty clear by the lack of F18HT's in the U.S that the boats couldn't stand up to American punishment.

 

ok, you prefer in German or French? I will not fan these unnecessary discussions but if you continue to write bad Bimare I must defend it. the 18th ht in America has won the "Boat of the Year" winning almost every race even hard ones, has proven to be very durable, I remind you that its weight is less than 50 kg in comparison with the competing boats, and its carbon mast 10.5 mt was not really performing in extreme conditions such as tybee 500. maybe the big problem was just the dealer, after 2 years he abandoned the class, and customers.

 

I was at the 2003 Tybee 500 and saw FIRST HAND how big of a piece of shit the Jav 2 was. That year was a fucking lolipop ride for a Tybee 500 and I saw more than one transom tear out without hitting ANYTHING. Not to mention William Sunnucks encouter with a measly stingray (not a turtle) tore the daggerboard about 2-3 feet through the bottom of the hull. Regardless of where that boat was made, it is crap and anywhere you could add duct tape to it would be an improvement. "Boat of the Year" badge doesn't mean a damn thing. That's merely an article. I don't think a single owner would have given it much more praise than a Hobie Wave (which would have been more likely to make every leg of the Worrell 1000 without breaking apart)

 

it is impossible to discuss with people false, these are false information until you have proven with real evidence, we are not to know problems of this kind and nobody has complained about these issues directly with Bimare. therefore, without real evidence what you say has no truth. very hard and extreme events are also found in Europe and 18 ht has not had any break of this type, ever. But now stop this topic does not interest anyone. please.

 

Why do we even argue with you? The Bimare fanboyism is ridiculous. Tybee is KNOWN for exploding boats. Have you launched your F18HT or any performance boat through 8' waves crashing right onshore with 25 kts of breeze also pointing right on shore, then pushed that boat HARD for 100 miles in the open ocean?? These are extreme conditions and breakages are common.

 

Look, this thread isn't about bashing the quality of any manufacturers products. I've seen and personally exploded parts on Nacra's, Hobie's, Bimare's, Prindle's, G-cats and AHPC's. I'm talking about brand new boats raced by pro's. The reality is some builders handle these situations with grace, others don't. I still own and race Nacra boats, even though they lack customer service in many cases, they build a strong platform with proven track record on the race course.

 

Anything Clean can do to improve customer service for Nacra's worldwide customer base is appreciated.

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Why do we even argue with you? The Bimare fanboyism is ridiculous.

It's not "fanboyism". I think he has the right to defend his own company, don't you?

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BTW, Ita 16, the proof is in the photos you STOLE from Connie Brown photography and pasted on your website. Remember the cease and desist request for stealing the COPYRIGHTED photos? You could have (and probably did) dig a little deeper and find the fucked up pictures of the Jav 2's. Plenty of proof is out there. The best thing about that boat was the mast (since Bimare didn't make it).

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BTW, Ita 16, the proof is in the photos you STOLE from Connie Brown photography and pasted on your website. Remember the cease and desist request for stealing the COPYRIGHTED photos? You could have (and probably did) dig a little deeper and find the fucked up pictures of the Jav 2's. Plenty of proof is out there. The best thing about that boat was the mast (since Bimare didn't make it).

 

 

eeeeeeee!! ! harryanas! you make very serious accusations false, attention, W. F.O. is the cause no Bimare,. if what you say is true culprit is the U.S. importer "WFO" we do not know anything about this problem. Please, be careful what you write.

 

reading the report of tybee 500, it seems to me that many boats had broken something, and the 18ht broke the hull in a collision with something in the water, this is not a problem Bimare,, is a problem that can happen to anyone in the race extreme. why do you persist with this smear campaign? I repeat once again, please talk about nacra, no Bimare, is not a forum Bimare,. I admire your nationalism but please do not overdo it.

 

greetings

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ITA 16 , you need to tell that to Catfan. He started an alarm disaster post on Nacra, and as he always promotes your brand, people questioned the tone of his thread.

And ofcourse anyone can bash others as long as they accept a 'payback' accusations in return .

 

The thruth is that I've seen no perfect brand to date and the only valid measure is customer service, and some brands have literally none.

Nacra is on the spotlight right now and this issue will be a challenge for them, and opportunity to prove they are upto the Olympic level.

As no mercy will come out from those campaigning for Rio.

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Catfan,be a good boy,otherwise,to bed without dinner. Even I'll stop.

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I wonder how much of the service expectation of NA folks is because you live in NA... having just moved to Paris from Seattle even though I was warned by my wife and every expat frenchperson I know - the level of almost customer hostility in many transactions is something you have to live to believe. And the weird thing is that good customer service DOES NOT SEEM TO GET REWARDED BY BUSINESS. its like everyone expects bad service and hence is suspicious of good service... totally weird.

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BTW, Ita 16, the proof is in the photos you STOLE from Connie Brown photography and pasted on your website. Remember the cease and desist request for stealing the COPYRIGHTED photos? You could have (and probably did) dig a little deeper and find the fucked up pictures of the Jav 2's. Plenty of proof is out there. The best thing about that boat was the mast (since Bimare didn't make it).

 

 

eeeeeeee!! ! harryanas! you make very serious accusations false, attention, W. F.O. is the cause no Bimare,. if what you say is true culprit is the U.S. importer "WFO" we do not know anything about this problem. Please, be careful what you write.

 

reading the report of tybee 500, it seems to me that many boats had broken something, and the 18ht broke the hull in a collision with something in the water, this is not a problem Bimare,, is a problem that can happen to anyone in the race extreme. why do you persist with this smear campaign? I repeat once again, please talk about nacra, no Bimare, is not a forum Bimare,. I admire your nationalism but please do not overdo it.

 

greetings

 

Do not speak of things you know little about from across an ocean. "WFO" had NOTHING to do with the failure of the 18HT as a Worrell boat. In fact, the boat had little to do with the failure. It was a failure of management due to grossly favorable projections of participation and arguable mismanagement of resources. The boat itself is basically a good boat. However, it was not ideally suited to the event, being light in construction and having a somewhat overpowered sail plan that was not easily depowered.

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