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Oh Looky - NY Sheriffs Association responds to Cuomo's gun laws.

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The 20 year old fuk-stik who went on a murderous gun spree the other day here in Orange County was BIG on violent video games. Don't believe me? Just ask the OC Sheriff....

 

So restrict access to violent video games for homicidal maniacs who have access to guns?

 

That might help actually ... that way the homicidal maniacs can get their aggressions out with regular guns without bringing their dangerous tendencies into the video game world.

No, I think he means restrict access to guns for homicidal maniacs who have access to violent video games?

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The 20 year old fuk-stik who went on a murderous gun spree the other day here in Orange County was BIG on violent video games. Don't believe me? Just ask the OC Sheriff....

 

So restrict access to violent video games for homicidal maniacs who have access to guns?

 

That might help actually ... that way the homicidal maniacs can get their aggressions out with regular guns without bringing their dangerous tendencies into the video game world.

No, I think he means restrict access to guns for homicidal maniacs who have access to violent video games?

I think it means to increase access to guns for people to whom fuk stiks with violent video games have access.

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The only thing that will stop a fuk-stik with a gun is a fuk-stik with a violent video game?

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The 20 year old fuk-stik who went on a murderous gun spree the other day here in Orange County was BIG on violent video games. Don't believe me? Just ask the OC Sheriff....

 

So restrict access to violent video games for homicidal maniacs who have access to guns?

 

That might help actually ... that way the homicidal maniacs can get their aggressions out with regular guns without bringing their dangerous tendencies into the video game world.

No, I think he means restrict access to guns for homicidal maniacs who have access to violent video games?

 

That's silly, he couldn't have meant that. The homicidal maniacs are only officially designated homicidal maniacs once they do something maniacally homicidal. Until then they have a Constitutional-right to their weapons.

 

However they don't have a Constitutional right to their video games, so those should be limited in access to homicidal maniacs who have still yet to take their maniacal homicides outside of their video games.

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I'm not "blaming" video games for psychopaths becoming psychopaths. I'm suggesting that because psychopaths who immerse themselves in violent video games 12 hours a day are likely FAR more familiar with black guns through the game than through actually owning or touching one. I'm just testing your own theory, that the color of the gun must have a psychological effect on the person. If that is true (I do not believe it is), then the more logical place to actually effect change is where they have the most exposure to the black gun and that is through the hours and hours and days and months spent killing people on their screen with a virtual military gun. You DO get that, right? If your theory is correct, then ergo - the place where they learn to actually use the gun and spend the most time with it (video games) is the more likely place to get the desire result. SO gamers and the gaming industry should voluntarily want all their virtual guns to be purple like Barney. If that were the case, then these psychos who want to kill for real might not even think about picking up that real black AR-15 because its boring and not what they've been inundated or programed to use.

 

You keep bringing up the video game thing, even though you can't substantiate it. I pointed out that these mass murders happened before realistic video games existed (which you suggested that they didn't) and Cavendish posted a graph which suggests little if any connection to mass murders and video games.

 

It's not about video games as much as it is about someone who is emotionally-ill, mentally-unhinged, on the knife-edge of doing something irreversible, they go to pick up the weapon, and the physical design of that weapon does absolutely nothing to disengage them from that psychosis. And worse, not only does it not help, it may even make it worse, because it's a civilian weapon that is practically a visual copy of comparable military weapons.

 

The firearm industry apparently makes weapons that look like this because it moves product to buyers who like their weapons to look like military weapons and not like effective, dangerous, industrial tools.

 

 

Jesus, you are a deliberately obtuse fucking douchebag sometimes. Please go back and re-read what I what I said. Because you are still adressing something I'm not saying. I agree they are picking up weapons that appear to be copies of military weapons. Given that few or none of these recent mass murderers have been in the military before and handled an M4.... where the fuck do you think they are getting their familiarity and association with the weapon to then go out and chose it to commit mass murder??? Yes you guess it... video games, movies, TV, etc. Its not coming from US Army ads.

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The only thing that will stop a fuk-stik with a gun is a fuk-stik with a violent video game?

 

Hmm ... maybe we've focused too much on the games and the guns and not enough on the fuk-sticks. Isn't that the common thread of both the games and the guns? Are the fuk sticks actually sticky? Does the problem arise when they a poked with their intended purpose? Perhaps we should all switch from fuk sticks to ten foot poles?

 

After all, if we all had ten foot poles we would then enthusiastically hunt for things not to touch with them.

 

But fuk sticks practically beg for insertion into multitudes of potentially sticky holes.

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In the larger scale can you please show me how the 35 MILLION copies of COD has led to more violent crime.

 

Unlike the numbers for guns, that number only accounts for one series just over a decade old. Gaming is massively popular and it isn't "just kids", not by a long shot. Drawing from games to convert into real life is something that is a product of insanity and in the cases we have seen insanity that combines with a catalyst and pre-existing condition.

 

The cunt that shot up the island in Norway drew on his strict conservative beliefs to justify his utter disregard for human life. Lanza had been influenced with the conspiracy theories of the survivalist movement and the guy who murdered a school bus driver and took a child hostage also found an on-line support network to justify his own unstable thoughts.

 

Was it the guns? the games? the lack of mental health services for those who have not committed crimes? the gun fetishists screaming conspiracy theories or those who claim to represent responsible owners yet remain quiet when those in their ranks spread fear and sedition?

 

How much liberty are we willing to sacrifice because some asshole abused theirs?

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Jesus, you are a deliberately obtuse fucking douchebag sometimes. Please go back and re-read what I what I said. Because you are still adressing something I'm not saying. I agree they are picking up weapons that appear to be copies of military weapons. Given that few or none of these recent mass murderers have been in the military before and handled an M4.... where the fuck do you think they are getting their familiarity and association with the weapon to then go out and chose it to commit mass murder??? Yes you guess it... video games, movies, TV, etc. Its not coming from US Army ads.

 

Lessee ... so according to your new theory, mentally-ill killers want military style weapons for their killings because those weapons match the ones in their video games?

 

So we should change the ones in the video games so that they don't match the ones in their gun racks?

 

But then why are military style weapons popular in the video games? Why don't people voluntarily line up to buy video games where the weapons are donkey-driven catapults that sling bags of liquid nitrogen?

 

Mission control to sky pilot Jeff ... perhaps the reason BOTH sell so well as military style is because people want to be military style? Because we've elevated war and soldiering and military killing to hero status while the cholera doctor is paid in bowls of rice? Because the engineer who develops a new remote-control charge-directed cluster bomb is paid a fortune while the engineer who develops a new Developing Nations hygienic latrine has to put her own money into it?

 

You've convinced yourself that the killer with the military looking gun is copying the video game rather than copying hero killer with the actual military gun?

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While i still believe a shotgun is the best option for self defense at home, they are not easier to operate than an AR-15 platform rifle. In that comment the Vice President is mistaken on a few points.

 

To be reasonably proficient with a shotgun the operator absolutely should dedicate a good amount of time learning how to effectively use the weapon. There are many variables, primary is selecting shells, birdshot, 00 and slugs all have their place and with, say, an Remington 870 with a side saddle, the operator can choose "all of the above". The more variables the more time needs to be spent at the range and cycling dummy rounds. "Select Slug" and "Chamber Load" are things that require practice a class that places the student under pressure while doing these things is invaluable IMO. Then again i think that class should also have a classroom session dedication to the legal ramifications related to the choice to fire. Just a tip, it is "shoot to STOP" not "shoot to KILL" .

 

Also firing blindly into the woods is a bad and insanely irresponsible idea.

 

Magazine size does however effect the efficiency of the weapon and it is extremely unlikely anyone "needs" a 30 round magazine for legal self defense in the United States. How many of these "home invasions" involve trained squads of assailants? If you cover a doorway, the first person to breach is at a severe disadvantage already. Without training and the intent to fight i just do not believe all but the most rare criminal actors are willing to advance if given other options. Jeff's meth addled home invasion force may be an exception, although i haven't heard of a squad of them acting together.

 

The justification for owning a high capacity magazine is however likely in keeping with a persons second amendment right to bear arms, for the purpose of a well regulated militia. Mind that says a "well regulated militia" not "for recreational purposes".

 

Just for fun here is a ruger 10/22 with a few dollars worth of modifications done and high capacity magazines. Should this type of modification be legal?

http://youtu.be/-fE8zstf_bg

 

 

Of course it should. About as mundane & innocuous as swapping out a V-6 for a V-8......

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I'm not "blaming" video games for psychopaths becoming psychopaths. I'm suggesting that because psychopaths who immerse themselves in violent video games 12 hours a day are likely FAR more familiar with black guns through the game than through actually owning or touching one. I'm just testing your own theory, that the color of the gun must have a psychological effect on the person. If that is true (I do not believe it is), then the more logical place to actually effect change is where they have the most exposure to the black gun and that is through the hours and hours and days and months spent killing people on their screen with a virtual military gun. You DO get that, right? If your theory is correct, then ergo - the place where they learn to actually use the gun and spend the most time with it (video games) is the more likely place to get the desire result. SO gamers and the gaming industry should voluntarily want all their virtual guns to be purple like Barney. If that were the case, then these psychos who want to kill for real might not even think about picking up that real black AR-15 because its boring and not what they've been inundated or programed to use.

 

You keep bringing up the video game thing, even though you can't substantiate it. I pointed out that these mass murders happened before realistic video games existed (which you suggested that they didn't) and Cavendish posted a graph which suggests little if any connection to mass murders and video games.

 

It's not about video games as much as it is about someone who is emotionally-ill, mentally-unhinged, on the knife-edge of doing something irreversible, they go to pick up the weapon, and the physical design of that weapon does absolutely nothing to disengage them from that psychosis. And worse, not only does it not help, it may even make it worse, because it's a civilian weapon that is practically a visual copy of comparable military weapons.

 

The firearm industry apparently makes weapons that look like this because it moves product to buyers who like their weapons to look like military weapons and not like effective, dangerous, industrial tools.

 

 

Jesus, you are a deliberately obtuse fucking douchebag sometimes. Please go back and re-read what I what I said. Because you are still adressing something I'm not saying. I agree they are picking up weapons that appear to be copies of military weapons. Given that few or none of these recent mass murderers have been in the military before and handled an M4.... where the fuck do you think they are getting their familiarity and association with the weapon to then go out and chose it to commit mass murder??? Yes you guess it... video games, movies, TV, etc. Its not coming from US Army ads.

Every rifle I own "looks" like a military arm from some point in history. All of my rifles look like antiques. Why were my Grandparents and Great Grandparents obsessed with rifles that look like military arms? Why didn't they try to make a gun look like something other than a gun? Greatest Generation my ass. They couldn't even figure out how to make a gun not look like a gun. Think of the children that could have been saved.

 

What I see is a mindless attempt from both sides of the gun issue to point fingers. You have to be truly dense to think changing weapons cosmetics or banning video games will change any of this.

 

How about locking up firearms so that they aren't accessible to every tom dick and harry in the house? How about NOT buying that "M" rated video game for your 10yr old? Oh, that's right, those are already things we're supposed to be doing, but aren't. If parents acted like parents, and not friends, we might see a reduction in this tragic bullshit.

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]Every rifle I own "looks" like a military arm from some point in history. All of my rifles look like antiques. Why were my Grandparents and Great Grandparents obsessed with rifles that look like military arms? Why didn't they try to make a gun look like something other than a gun? Greatest Generation my ass. They couldn't even figure out how to make a gun not look like a gun. Think of the children that could have been saved.

 

What I see is a mindless attempt from both sides of the gun issue to point fingers. You have to be truly dense to think changing weapons cosmetics or banning video games will change any of this.

 

How about locking up firearms so that they aren't accessible to every tom dick and harry in the house? How about NOT buying that "M" rated video game for your 10yr old? Oh, that's right, those are already things we're supposed to be doing, but aren't. If parents acted like parents, and not friends, we might see a reduction in this tragic bullshit.

 

Maybe, maybe not.

 

Something us undeniable though ... we are a people who create heroes out of our own when they use a gun to kill people who have lives that we don't value.

 

And the nuns, social workers, teachers, international aid workers and field doctors/engineers? They can generally go fuck themselves given the way we demean their work.

 

You want to blame the rampages of emotionally-ill soldier copycats on video games and less-than-perfect parents? Okay, maybe you have a point. But to leave our warmongering culture blameless is maybe a little bit incomplete.

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Someone should really take his guns away until he can learn the four basic rules of gun safety.

 

Biden: just fire a shotgun through the door. That's a reckless violation of rule four.

 

He also doesn't seem to understand that mean looking AR-15s and such are easy to control and kick far less than a shotgun.

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Getting back to the thread topic, a NY State Supreme Court judge has ordered the state to show why their new law is constitutional.

 

Buffalo-based attorney who is spear-heading a lawsuit against Governor Andrew Cuomo's recent gun laws said that Wednesday was "monumental," as a State Supreme Court Justice issued an order requiring New York State to show good cause that the law is constitutional.

 

New York State has until April 29 to respond or else an injunction will be issued.

 

That's a good question and they had better come up with a great answer. I see no justification for their new 7 round limit, among other provisions. Dick Heller's constitutionally protected handgun holds 9.

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The only good thing about Gnu Yawk trying to pass their idiotic, feely-good, useless laws, is that it will move Kalifornia up to 49th place as America's most pussified state.

 

Thank you, Andy.....:lol:

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Military heroes do something extraordinary and selflessly in an act pursuant to the accomplishment of a mission. "confirmed kills" do not make a hero, that may indicate a great shot, but not a hero unless the conditions were extraordinarily austere.

 

The term has been watered down, wars are not simply about killing and never have been. They are about accomplishing missions that must be done, no war should ever be fought without a clear mission. War is not a sport or a game.

 

There are Medal of Honor recipients who never touched a trigger in the act of earning the highest military honor.

 

It gets old and to be honest downright uncomfortable to be referred to as an "American Hero" ad nausium based of military service alone. There just doesn't seem to be a way to disagree with the title without being labeled as anti-everything American.

 

I know i couldn't do it in response to the SEAL sniper who was killed recently. He was an awesome man, his foundation is seriously a great work and his skill surely made an impact beyond what could ever be expected from an individual on the battlefield. Just...not a hero.

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Gotta love this one.....:lol:

 

 

 

Hollywood could get pass on gun rule

 

Cuomo, Silver discuss exemption

 

Feb 27, 2013

 

 

ALBANY — Gov. Andrew Cuomo and legislative leaders may exempt film productions in New York from the stringent assault-weapons ban passed last month.

 

Cuomo and Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, D-Manhattan, told reporters Wednesday that the state is not expected to make major changes to the gun-control law adopted Jan. 15. But lawmakers could amend the law so Hollywood productions are exempt from the assault-weapons ban.

“We haven’t talked about the details of it, but the basic concept of should you be able to use these types of guns in movies? The answer is yes,” Cuomo said. “We spend a lot of money in the state bringing movie production here, post-production here. So obviously we would want to facilitate that.”

 

“We haven’t talked about the details of it, but the basic concept of should you be able to use these types of guns in movies? The answer is yes,” Cuomo said. “We spend a lot of money in the state bringing movie production here, post-production here. So obviously we would want to facilitate that.”

 

Cuomo said he and lawmakers are mainly looking at “technical corrections” to the controversial law. He said the Hollywood exemption may not even be necessary, but state leaders are considering it.

 

“I don’t know that it’s a real issue because they don’t use real guns,” Cuomo said. “Apparently, they have blanks or phony magazines or something. So I don’t know that legally it would even be classified as an assault weapon if it’s a phony gun, but people want certainty and there’s no reason not to make a change like that, to give an industry comfort, especially when it’s an industry that we want doing business in the state.”

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Someone should really take his guns away until he can learn the four basic rules of gun safety.

 

Biden: just fire a shotgun through the door. That's a reckless violation of rule four.

 

He also doesn't seem to understand that mean looking AR-15s and such are easy to control and kick far less than a shotgun.

 

Virginia Beach man faces charges for doing exactly what Biden said to do.

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In the larger scale can you please show me how the 35 MILLION copies of COD has led to more violent crime.

 

Unlike the numbers for guns, that number only accounts for one series just over a decade old. Gaming is massively popular and it isn't "just kids", not by a long shot. Drawing from games to convert into real life is something that is a product of insanity and in the cases we have seen insanity that combines with a catalyst and pre-existing condition.

 

The cunt that shot up the island in Norway drew on his strict conservative beliefs to justify his utter disregard for human life. Lanza had been influenced with the conspiracy theories of the survivalist movement and the guy who murdered a school bus driver and took a child hostage also found an on-line support network to justify his own unstable thoughts.

 

Was it the guns? the games? the lack of mental health services for those who have not committed crimes? the gun fetishists screaming conspiracy theories or those who claim to represent responsible owners yet remain quiet when those in their ranks spread fear and sedition?

 

How much liberty are we willing to sacrifice because some asshole abused theirs?

 

Then the guns themselves are no more causal than the video games. Thanks for supporting my argument.

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Jesus, you are a deliberately obtuse fucking douchebag sometimes. Please go back and re-read what I what I said. Because you are still adressing something I'm not saying. I agree they are picking up weapons that appear to be copies of military weapons. Given that few or none of these recent mass murderers have been in the military before and handled an M4.... where the fuck do you think they are getting their familiarity and association with the weapon to then go out and chose it to commit mass murder??? Yes you guess it... video games, movies, TV, etc. Its not coming from US Army ads.

 

Lessee ... so according to your new theory, mentally-ill killers want military style weapons for their killings because those weapons match the ones in their video games?

 

So we should change the ones in the video games so that they don't match the ones in their gun racks?

 

But then why are military style weapons popular in the video games? Why don't people voluntarily line up to buy video games where the weapons are donkey-driven catapults that sling bags of liquid nitrogen?

 

Mission control to sky pilot Jeff ... perhaps the reason BOTH sell so well as military style is because people want to be military style? Because we've elevated war and soldiering and military killing to hero status while the cholera doctor is paid in bowls of rice? Because the engineer who develops a new remote-control charge-directed cluster bomb is paid a fortune while the engineer who develops a new Developing Nations hygienic latrine has to put her own money into it?

 

You've convinced yourself that the killer with the military looking gun is copying the video game rather than copying hero killer with the actual military gun?

 

No mikey, I'm not disagreeing with the idea that people want to ultimately copy the GI Joe figure. And I further agree that it would be nice if we exalted the cholera doc or the engineer over the soldier. But as usual, you're missing the point..... I'm simply applying Zyour argument to the video game. You want to make guns yellow and black to make them look less menacing. I'm saying make video game guns look less menacing by making them pink. Far more people kill far more people in video games than in real life. Best to get your logic applied to the greatest number where it can do the most good.

 

Sometimes I question whether common sense and logical thinking skills are required of PhDs. It doesn't appear to be evadent.

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No mikey, I'm not disagreeing with the idea that people want to ultimately copy the GI Joe figure. And I further agree that it would be nice if we exalted the cholera doc or the engineer over the soldier. But as usual, you're missing the point..... I'm simply applying Zyour argument to the video game. You want to make guns yellow and black to make them look less menacing. I'm saying make video game guns look less menacing by making them pink. Far more people kill far more people in video games than in real life. Best to get your logic applied to the greatest number where it can do the most good.

 

Sometimes I question whether common sense and logical thinking skills are required of PhDs. It doesn't appear to be evadent.

 

I never wrote that, regardless that you keep writing it.

 

Ideally, guns should look as menacing and dangerous as possible, since, in the wrong hands, they are menacing and dangerous.

 

I think the industry needs to consider clearly identifying their civilian products as civilian rather than military with the hopes that an obviously civilian weapon will trigger a different kind of response than "kill, soldier, kill." Perhaps we can get "danger, use with caution."

 

And yes, I get your logic about making pink video game (and presumably movie) weapons. I believe that idea is ill-thought out. Video game weapons are typically used to kill video game people, thus the emotional impacts of their design are less critical.

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In the larger scale can you please show me how the 35 MILLION copies of COD has led to more violent crime.

 

Unlike the numbers for guns, that number only accounts for one series just over a decade old. Gaming is massively popular and it isn't "just kids", not by a long shot. Drawing from games to convert into real life is something that is a product of insanity and in the cases we have seen insanity that combines with a catalyst and pre-existing condition.

 

The cunt that shot up the island in Norway drew on his strict conservative beliefs to justify his utter disregard for human life. Lanza had been influenced with the conspiracy theories of the survivalist movement and the guy who murdered a school bus driver and took a child hostage also found an on-line support network to justify his own unstable thoughts.

 

Was it the guns? the games? the lack of mental health services for those who have not committed crimes? the gun fetishists screaming conspiracy theories or those who claim to represent responsible owners yet remain quiet when those in their ranks spread fear and sedition?

 

How much liberty are we willing to sacrifice because some asshole abused theirs?

 

Then the guns themselves are no more causal than the video games. Thanks for supporting my argument.

 

What argument exactly?

 

Also, i think most of what i have disagreed with you on were matters of facts rather than policy.

 

Here is a good article on video game-violence. Actually some very well thought out comments as well.

 

FirstAmendment-225x300.jpg Speaking of free speech, there was a significant rally in Albany this past Thursday and a state supreme court is very likely to place an injunction on the SAFE act, due to possibly unconstitutionally improper procedure.

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In the larger scale can you please show me how the 35 MILLION copies of COD has led to more violent crime.

 

Unlike the numbers for guns, that number only accounts for one series just over a decade old. Gaming is massively popular and it isn't "just kids", not by a long shot. Drawing from games to convert into real life is something that is a product of insanity and in the cases we have seen insanity that combines with a catalyst and pre-existing condition.

 

The cunt that shot up the island in Norway drew on his strict conservative beliefs to justify his utter disregard for human life. Lanza had been influenced with the conspiracy theories of the survivalist movement and the guy who murdered a school bus driver and took a child hostage also found an on-line support network to justify his own unstable thoughts.

 

Was it the guns? the games? the lack of mental health services for those who have not committed crimes? the gun fetishists screaming conspiracy theories or those who claim to represent responsible owners yet remain quiet when those in their ranks spread fear and sedition?

 

How much liberty are we willing to sacrifice because some asshole abused theirs?

 

Then the guns themselves are no more causal than the video games. Thanks for supporting my argument.

 

What argument exactly?

 

Also, i think most of what i have disagreed with you on were matters of facts rather than policy.

 

Hereis a good article on video game-violence. Actually some very well thought out comments as well.

 

FirstAmendment-225x300.jpg Speaking of free speech, there was a significant rally in Albany this past Thursday and a state supreme court is very likely to place an injunction on the SAFE act, due to possibly unconstitutionally improper procedure.

 

The argument that guns are no more causal to the problem of violence than video games and speech is. I wholeheartedly support the rights of game makers and violent movie producers to do what they want under the guise of free speech. Just as I would expect you to understand that the RKBA is also just as important as speech. My point was that if you (collective you) want to bans guns because they are related to violence, then it follows that we ban other things that can cause or contribute to violence.

 

Finally on your point about video games linked to violent behavior..... your linked article does nothing to disprove the causation link. Simply that the SCOTUS said no to any kinds of restrictions. The SCOTUS decision notwithstanding, the bulk of the psychology community DOES IN FACT believe there is a causitive link between violent games and images to actual aggressive behavior, especially in children. Whatever though..... regardless, the SCOTUS said hands off - so there is nothing to be done there because of the 1A. Similarily, whether there is a causitive link between guns and violence or not - the 2A is reason enough to seek answers elsewhere. Like trying to change behavior rather than banning a gun (or a video game). I can live with that. Its the price of doing business in a free society.

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Just as I would expect you to understand that the RKBA is also just as important as speech.

I would have some sympathy for you if you fought the 1934 National Firearms Act that infringes to this day, your RKBA. But you don't seem upset about that.

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Just as I would expect you to understand that the RKBA is also just as important as speech.

I would have some sympathy for you if you fought the 1934 National Firearms Act that infringes to this day, your RKBA. But you don't seem upset about that.

 

I'm quite upset about it. However, I wasn't around in 1934 to fight it at the time. Or to even be outraged. Don't worry tho, this will come up to the SCOTUS eventually and it will also be overturned or changed. We have bigger alligators nearer to the canoe to fight first. But the NFA will have its day.

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Just as I would expect you to understand that the RKBA is also just as important as speech.

I would have some sympathy for you if you fought the 1934 National Firearms Act that infringes to this day, your RKBA. But you don't seem upset about that.

 

I'm quite upset about it. However, I wasn't around in 1934 to fight it at the time. Or to even be outraged. Don't worry tho, this will come up to the SCOTUS eventually and it will also be overturned or changed. We have bigger alligators nearer to the canoe to fight first. But the NFA will have its day.

It did go before the SCOTUS and was ruled constitutional. 1938 United States Vs. Miller. Its settled law. You will need to change the constitution to overturn it. And it easily can be expanded to include semi-automatic weapons. Your fight should be with it and only it. Overturn the 1934 NFA, and your RKBA will be restored and preserved.

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Finally on your point about video games linked to violent behavior..... your linked article does nothing to disprove the causation link. Simply that the SCOTUS said no to any kinds of restrictions. The SCOTUS decision notwithstanding, the bulk of the psychology community DOES IN FACT believe there is a causitive link between violent games and images to actual aggressive behavior, especially in children. Whatever though..... regardless, the SCOTUS said hands off - so there is nothing to be done there because of the 1A. Similarily, whether there is a causitive link between guns and violence or not - the 2A is reason enough to seek answers elsewhere. Like trying to change behavior rather than banning a gun (or a video game). I can live with that. Its the price of doing business in a free society.

 

You are correct, i chose that article for its balance and reasonable, level headed, tone. If you have a million dollars, you can have a study made for your interests. Sad, but true and you yourself have linked "research" that was bought and paid for by a group with a vested interest. Talking about the "More guns less crime" related thread here. As a larger group everyone of us is guilty of this to some extent, myself included.

 

Here is a study from Ferguson, who was interviewed for the article. The funny spiral of reviewing research is that those footnotes are absolutely fundamental to the validity of the findings. Academia done right requires more than simply reading one or two studies, it involves years of study and peer review. Many of the proponents of violent game prohibition, for example, actually remove from context Ferguson's findings to "prove" their predetermined hypothesis.

 

Fact is, most validly founded studies, are at best, mildly supportive only in a tiny scope and generally are very, very dry reads. There are no "smoking guns" so to say on the issue that i have found. Then again i am not an academic and have not done the serious legwork as required to even support the mildest pretense of scientific certainty.

 

There is plenty of junk science, with more coming i am sure. Much like the study that "proved marijuana killed brain cells" results can be manipulated, then findings can be used to a political end. Obama, for whatever his faults, actually supports more open information that will prevent some of that bullshit in the future, although that would only cover major research.

 

Just for fun, i love this study, violence has many sources and humans are complicated. Pb(CH2CH3)4 isn't our friend.

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Just as I would expect you to understand that the RKBA is also just as important as speech.

I would have some sympathy for you if you fought the 1934 National Firearms Act that infringes to this day, your RKBA. But you don't seem upset about that.

 

I'm quite upset about it. However, I wasn't around in 1934 to fight it at the time. Or to even be outraged. Don't worry tho, this will come up to the SCOTUS eventually and it will also be overturned or changed. We have bigger alligators nearer to the canoe to fight first. But the NFA will have its day.

It did go before the SCOTUS and was ruled constitutional. 1938 United States Vs. Miller. Its settled law. You will need to change the constitution to overturn it. And it easily can be expanded to include semi-automatic weapons. Your fight should be with it and only it. Overturn the 1934 NFA, and your RKBA will be restored and preserved.

 

No, I think you need to go read the reason for the ruling in Miller. I'm betting if someone actually shows up this time to argue the case, the gov't will have a bit harder time winning. I don't think that IS settled law and I think it will be overturned or modified eventually. Paitence grasshopper. The courts have changed precedence before, there is no such thing as settled law when it is bad law. Dred Scott comes to mind.

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Come to think of it, if an assault weapons ban is passed (which I don't think is realistic, but we can dream can't we?), in order for it to be challenged in the SCOTUS, the 1934 NFA and 1968 NFA will also have to be challenged. Both of those laws will have to be overturned to overturn the new AWB. Since the 1934 Ban was upheld already by the SCOTUS and the court is very reluctant to rule against precedence, combined with the vast majority of the public supporting the 1934 ban, I find it very unlikely the new AWB would be ruled unconstitutional. Also in the mix is a court packed by Obama and his successor.

 

Your best bet is to continue your current path. Fight the passing of a new AWB and ignore the 1934 NFA. You simply cannot afford to challenge it.

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Come to think of it, if an assault weapons ban is passed (which I don't think is realistic, but we can dream can't we?), in order for it to be challenged in the SCOTUS, the 1934 NFA and 1968 NFA will also have to be challenged. Both of those laws will have to be overturned to overturn the new AWB. Since the 1934 Ban was upheld already by the SCOTUS and the court is very reluctant to rule against precedence, combined with the vast majority of the public supporting the 1934 ban, I find it very unlikely the new AWB would be ruled unconstitutional. Also in the mix is a court packed by Obama and his successor.

 

Your best bet is to continue your current path. Fight the passing of a new AWB and ignore the 1934 NFA. You simply cannot afford to challenge it.

 

Why would you dream about something that won't do a g-damn thing to prevent mass murders? 'Cuz you do know that there are already 75 million 'a salt weapons' in America right now, doncha? Really, your unicorny emotionalism is getting quite tiresome....

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You, you may say

I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one

I hope some day you'll join us

And the world will live as one

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You, you may say

 

I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one

 

I hope some day you'll join us

 

And the world will live as one

 

 

 

Fuk you, and the rainbow you rode in on....:lol:

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Didn't you ever wonder why the last AWB wasn't contested in court? Its because it wouldn't be overturned. The NRA knew it and decided to run out the clock. Lucky for them they had a sympathetic president and congress when renewal came due.

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Didn't you ever wonder why the last AWB wasn't contested in court? Its because it wouldn't be overturned. The NRA knew it and decided to run out the clock. Lucky for them they had a sympathetic president and congress when renewal came due.

 

Hey shut up for a minute and listen---you gonna be home the first week in July? I may be driving thru, so I'd like to bring you some real salsa, real Mexican beer.....and a huge box of clues..... :D

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Didn't you ever wonder why the last AWB wasn't contested in court? Its because it wouldn't be overturned. The NRA knew it and decided to run out the clock. Lucky for them they had a sympathetic president and congress when renewal came due.

 

Hey shut up for a minute and listen---you gonna be home the first week in July? I may be driving thru, so I'd like to bring you some real salsa, real Mexican beer.....and a huge box of clues..... :D

Bring it on. I'll take you up in a experimental airplane and show you a good time. Of course, you will have to come it under 200 lbs if you want go upside down. Might even make you claim you love Jesus. I have big box of Depends too.

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If I liked flying, I wouldn't be f'ng driving.

 

What else you got?....

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If I liked flying, I wouldn't be f'ng driving.

 

What else you got?....

I can take you up in the woods to look for cougars. But the only protection we'll need is some condoms and breath mints.

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If I liked flying, I wouldn't be f'ng driving.

 

What else you got?....

I can take you up in the woods to look for cougars. But the only protection we'll need is some condoms and breath mints.

 

Yeah, I'm sure The Nurse will sign off on that one. Knot. You got any water near by? Or can we shoot some birds? Or should I just leave the rods & guns at home and bring booze instead?....

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If I liked flying, I wouldn't be f'ng driving.

 

What else you got?....

I can take you up in the woods to look for cougars. But the only protection we'll need is some condoms and breath mints.

 

Yeah, I'm sure The Nurse will sign off on that one. Knot. You got any water near by? Or can we shoot some birds? Or should I just leave the rods & guns at home and bring booze instead?....

IF bird is your game, I'd suggest a 9 iron. You can walk right up the geese around here and when they charge you, swing for the greens. Bring beer. In cans so we have something to shoot at after a few.

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You, you may say

 

I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one

 

I hope some day you'll join us

 

And the world will live as one

 

 

 

Fuk you, and the rainbow Unicorn you rode in on.... :lol:

 

FIFY

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You, you may say

 

I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one

 

I hope some day you'll join us

 

And the world will live as one

 

 

 

Fuk you, and the rainbow you rode in on....:lol:/>

 

Here Ed, enjoy ...

 

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Didn't you ever wonder why the last AWB wasn't contested in court? Its because it wouldn't be overturned. The NRA knew it and decided to run out the clock. Lucky for them they had a sympathetic president and congress when renewal came due.

 

Hey shut up for a minute and listen---you gonna be home the first week in July? I may be driving thru, so I'd like to bring you some real salsa, real Mexican beer.....and a huge box of clues..... :D/>

 

Pity the poor fool who thinks the Mexican food in Colorado sucks. We have green chili here that defines itself.

 

I'm here too. You dismal anal warts are welcome at my shithole.

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Magpul and Alfred Manufacturing got one step closer to leaving Colorado yesterday.

 

They produce standard capacity magazines for mean looking rifles, which the Colorado House voted to ban. The Governor is on board with the ban, so it just has to clear the Senate and those companies will move.

 

The Colorado bill passed and Magpul is leaving the state.

 

The Democratic governor defended the legislation in a press conference on Wednesday. Hickenlooper said he had found widespread support among state residents for broadening background checks, and dismissed the idea that politicians had been pressured from outside the state.

 

“This didn’t come from the White House,” Hickenlooper said.

 

...

 

Vice President Joe Biden personally lobbied lawmakers to get enough votes to get the bills through the Democrat-controlled House of Representatives in February. The measures backed by state Democrats cleared the state Senate on March 12.

 

I guess Hickenlooper's statement is technically true. IIRC, the Vice President's house is across the street from the White House, making him completely unrelated to the administration. You know, like Cheney.

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Looks like its not just NY State Sheriffs who think these gun laws are stupid:

 

CO Sheriffs won't enforce new gun laws

 

At his office Tuesday, [sheriff] Wiggins took out the clip from his gun to illustrate why he said the new law limiting magazine capacity to 15 rounds would be impossible for his deputies to enforce. Wiggins said older magazines would be grandfathered in, and magazines do not contain dates for when they were made.

“There is absolutely no way for us to determine when you purchased that magazine,” Wiggins said

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Governor Andrew "Confiscation Is An Option" Cuomo tries to minimize the fact that the gun control bill they rushed through in New York was not well thought out...

 

Cuomo and legislative leaders in state budget talks plan to change the law that was passed in January before a provision kicks in banning the sale of 10-bullet magazines. The gun measure outlaws the purchase of any magazines that carry more than seven bullets, the nation's most stringent limit. That would have put a severe limit on the sale of guns with industry standard 10-bullet magazines when the provision of the law went onto effect on April 15.

 

"There is no such thing as a seven-bullet magazine. That doesn't exist, so you really have no practical option," Cuomo said. He told reporters that any suggestion this will be a rollback of the law is "wholly without basis."

 

Cuomo said the state needs to allow the sale of handguns and rifles with 10-shot magazines, but New Yorkers will still be required to keep no more than seven bullets in them, except at shooting ranges and competitions....

 

Gun nutters tried to tell him there was no such thing as a seven round magazine, but he wouldn't hear it. I guess the fact that they are rolling back that part of the law is without basis if you don't count the factual basis. The idea that violent people will obey the 7 round restriction is far fetched and I see no compelling governmental interest that is served by it, so it seems unconstitutional to me.

 

Cuomo minimized the cleanup now needed in the bill as addressing "ambiguities" and "grammatical errors" and routine for complex measures. They include exempting police and their weapons and allowing Hollywood to continue to film violent movies and TV shows in New York using weapons outlawed under his measure.

 

...

 

Although Cuomo said Wednesday that the gun bill was developed over months within his administration, it was rushed to a vote in the Legislature after closed-door negotiations on Jan. 15. Cuomo issued an order approved by the Legislature that suspends the three days' public review of all bills under the constitution.

 

I'm still waiting for an example of police being outgunned that would justify the exemption for police in the law that they somehow forgot to provide but are putting in now. I'm not sure why movie stars should get to use the banned guns most of them seem to hate either.

 

I wonder about that constitutional provision requiring three day review of new laws. How can an executive order and an act of the Legislature override it? That seems like something that would require a constitutional amendment to override.

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Eh.

 

I'm not insensitive to what they perceive as a hostile business environment and I think I have a bigger magazine somewhere for my semi-auto ... but Colorado is a decent 2nd Amm. State.

 

If their connection to our state is so tenuous that they feel compelled to take their football and run home due to a relatively minor law for a relatively minor product line ... then go somewhere else. Leave and don't send a postcard.

 

There are probably five manufacturing companies here ready to snap up your property and your employees.

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Eh.

 

I'm not insensitive to what they perceive as a hostile business environment and I think I have a bigger magazine somewhere for my semi-auto ... but Colorado is a decent 2nd Amm. State.

 

If their connection to our state is so tenuous that they feel compelled to take their football and run home due to a relatively minor law for a relatively minor product line ... then go somewhere else. Leave and don't send a postcard.

 

There are probably five manufacturing companies here ready to snap up your property and your employees.

Funny thing is this company is based in the liberal bastion of Boulder Colorado. Obviously their employees who enjoy the lifestyle of living in Boulder will not be following them to TeaBag country. They will find work at the natural food stores and Celestial Seasonings herbal tea factory down the road.

 

Adios MF!

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Eh.

 

I'm not insensitive to what they perceive as a hostile business environment and I think I have a bigger magazine somewhere for my semi-auto ... but Colorado is a decent 2nd Amm. State.

 

If their connection to our state is so tenuous that they feel compelled to take their football and run home due to a relatively minor law for a relatively minor product line ... then go somewhere else. Leave and don't send a postcard.

 

There are probably five manufacturing companies here ready to snap up your property and your employees.

Funny thing is this company is based in the liberal bastion of Boulder Colorado. Obviously their employees who enjoy the lifestyle of living in Boulder will not be following them to TeaBag country. They will find work at the natural food stores and Celestial Seasonings herbal tea factory down the road.

 

Adios MF!

 

Spyderco here in Golden is growing like gangbusters, they can probably use pre-trained employees, 15 minute drive to Boulder.

 

Developing a well trained manufacturing workforce and moving is an enormous expense.

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Eh.

 

I'm not insensitive to what they perceive as a hostile business environment and I think I have a bigger magazine somewhere for my semi-auto ... but Colorado is a decent 2nd Amm. State.

 

If their connection to our state is so tenuous that they feel compelled to take their football and run home due to a relatively minor law for a relatively minor product line ... then go somewhere else. Leave and don't send a postcard.

 

There are probably five manufacturing companies here ready to snap up your property and your employees.

 

What do you think are their relatively major product lines?

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What do you think are their relatively major product lines?

 

Plastic gun stuff that doesn't need the serial number.

 

The plastic gun stuff that does need the serial number (e.g. big magazines) is what, 15% of their line?

 

Since this new law they did their "Colorado Airlift" thing, probably sold more product than they sold all year with all that free advertising.

 

And if they actually move the entire company out of Colorado I'll be surprised. Once all the free publicity dies down, I'll wager they keep a part of their business here and go to another state for the magazines so that they don't need to put the serial number on them.

 

 

Sorry Normy, I'm too cynical about the integrity of most any business to believe that principle is allowed to triumph over profit for more than a few weeks.

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I went to their website, seems they are branching out to iPhone cases. They must be really pissed that most Boulderites have those communistic Apple products.

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What do you think are their relatively major product lines?

 

Plastic gun stuff that doesn't need the serial number.

 

The plastic gun stuff that does need the serial number (e.g. big magazines) is what, 15% of their line?

 

Since this new law they did their "Colorado Airlift" thing, probably sold more product than they sold all year with all that free advertising.

 

And if they actually move the entire company out of Colorado I'll be surprised. Once all the free publicity dies down, I'll wager they keep a part of their business here and go to another state for the magazines so that they don't need to put the serial number on them.

 

 

If that 15% accounts for most of their business, as your next sentence above suggests it might, does that make it major even if they sell other things.

 

$20 on your wager OK?

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This PBS interview with a constitutional scholar who says an assault weapons ban would not pass constitutional muster suggests a reason why New York is rolling back the 7 round magazine thing: 7 round magazines are virtually unheard of while magazines with higher capacity are standard on guns in common use, the kind the Supreme Court says are protected.

 

By allowing larger magazines and just not allowing people to load them, they set up the argument that they are not banning guns in common use (they are just banning the most common use of them, since most people fully load their magazines.) I don't think it will work any better than DC's argument that "you can have it, you just can't use it" did in the Heller case w/regard to gun locks, but it is at least a slightly more defensible argument.

 

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I hadn't heard that NY was rolling back the 7 round mag thing. Is that true? And you're saying they are going to replace it with "just don't load more than 7"??? That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard. Does that include one in the chamber too in addition to 7 in the mag, or is it just 7 total?

 

But if passed, I have every confidence that criminals will be sure to only load 7 rounds lest they run afoul of the law :lol: :lol:

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What do you think are their relatively major product lines?

 

Plastic gun stuff that doesn't need the serial number.

 

The plastic gun stuff that does need the serial number (e.g. big magazines) is what, 15% of their line?

 

Since this new law they did their "Colorado Airlift" thing, probably sold more product than they sold all year with all that free advertising.

 

And if they actually move the entire company out of Colorado I'll be surprised. Once all the free publicity dies down, I'll wager they keep a part of their business here and go to another state for the magazines so that they don't need to put the serial number on them.

 

 

If that 15% accounts for most of their business, as your next sentence above suggests it might, does that make it major even if they sell other things.

 

$20 on your wager OK?

 

Huh?

 

I think big magazines to Coloradans are barely 5% of their business, maybe even less than 1%, based on Colorado's population.

 

The law doesn't prohibit them from making them for sale out of the state. They just need to stamp a serial number on the big magazines.

 

My Hershey's bar is required to have a serial number too.

 

As for the wager, let's pick something more interesting than money. Loser has to post photograph of themselves doing something nauseating.

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As for the wager, let's pick something more interesting than money. Loser has to post photograph of themselves doing something nauseating gaytor.

 

Fixed

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What do you think are their relatively major product lines?

 

Plastic gun stuff that doesn't need the serial number.

 

The plastic gun stuff that does need the serial number (e.g. big magazines) is what, 15% of their line?

 

Since this new law they did their "Colorado Airlift" thing, probably sold more product than they sold all year with all that free advertising.

 

And if they actually move the entire company out of Colorado I'll be surprised. Once all the free publicity dies down, I'll wager they keep a part of their business here and go to another state for the magazines so that they don't need to put the serial number on them.

 

 

If that 15% accounts for most of their business, as your next sentence above suggests it might, does that make it major even if they sell other things.

 

$20 on your wager OK?

 

Huh?

 

I think big magazines to Coloradans are barely 5% of their business, maybe even less than 1%, based on Colorado's population.

 

The law doesn't prohibit them from making them for sale out of the state. They just need to stamp a serial number on the big magazines.

 

My Hershey's bar is required to have a serial number too.

 

As for the wager, let's pick something more interesting than money. Loser has to post photograph of themselves doing something nauseating.

 

Prohibiting sales within the state strikes me as a hostile move, and prohibiting sales without a serial number does too. Those are the kinds of things that would make me wonder what's next and want to leave before it came along. That's why they are leaving.

 

Chocolate bars made in another state have serial numbers out there? Are they afraid someone is going to nibble one into the shape of a gun or something? ;)

 

Would sailing a boat that sails even worse than a MacGregor powersailer count as nauseating?

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Post 446, JBSF

 

Thanks Tom. I missed that. What cuntmo said was interesting:

 

"There is no such thing as a seven-bullet magazine. That doesn't exist, so you really have no practical option," Cuomo said.

 

1st of all, I thought the 7 round mag provision was specifically intended to prevent the sale of many common guns. I don't think they put it at 7 by accident. Perhaps some constitutional lawyers whispered in his ear and explained that it would likely be thrown out because of that.

 

2nd, his assertion that they don't exist is also wrong. But its in very few guns. The 1911 comes to mind with a 7 round mag and my Walther PPS 9mm also has a 7 round mag. But there aren't many others out there. Certainly no rifles that I'm aware of.

 

Back to the CO thingy.... if I understand right, new mags will have to have a serial number but old mags are grandfathered. Whats to keep a guy from driving next door to UT and picking up some nice new 30 round mags and calling them "pre-ban" mags? How does that work?

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My Marlin 22 WMR bolty has seven round mag's too. So does my Marlin 41DL. Seven is a common number. More so than 42 or 69........

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Back to the CO thingy.... if I understand right, new mags will have to have a serial number but old mags are grandfathered. Whats to keep a guy from driving next door to UT and picking up some nice new 30 round mags and calling them "pre-ban" mags? How does that work?

 

I'm not sure that would be illegal in CO, but if it is, it will probably work about as well as other gun control laws do.

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Back to the CO thingy.... if I understand right, new mags will have to have a serial number but old mags are grandfathered. Whats to keep a guy from driving next door to UT and picking up some nice new 30 round mags and calling them "pre-ban" mags? How does that work?

 

I'm not sure that would be illegal in CO, but if it is, it will probably work about as well as other gun control laws do.

Our goal in Colorado is to inconvenience gun natters.

 

You can't go the gun show or sporting goods shop to get your precious.

 

You will now have to travel out of state to get your precious and hide it from the cops, lie about it if questioned.

 

 

And if we accidentally inconvenience criminals at the same time, well that's just a bonus.

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Prohibiting sales within the state strikes me as a hostile move, and prohibiting sales without a serial number does too. Those are the kinds of things that would make me wonder what's next and want to leave before it came along. That's why they are leaving.

 

Hostile to the manufacturing company. Maybe. Hostile to the citizens of Colorado? Maybe, or maybe not.

 

Governments, at the request of their citizens, do things like this all the time. Our state forced expensive and complex protection measures for companies that had access to our streams and lakes. That was definitely hostile and expensive to the companies who had to do it, not so hostile to the people who drank and fished from those sources.

 

If the owners of this manufacturing company feels that the government of our state is being hostile to them, then they can move their company elsewhere. I assume they've done some benefit accounting and decided that their requirement to serialize their magazines significantly outweighs the benefits that their employees have in living in Colorado, and they've decided that it's worth the enormous expense of moving a company.

 

Or maybe not ... maybe it was mostly a manufactured brouhaha to sell more product and they're just going to move a component of their business out of the state. I guess we'll see.

 

 

Chocolate bars made in another state have serial numbers out there? Are they afraid someone is going to nibble one into the shape of a gun or something? ;)

 

Manufactured food has serialized manufacturing codes on it to track recalls and potentially dangerous production errors. I can't imagine that the manufacturers were happy about adding cost to be compliant, but they're making money regardless.

 

 

Would sailing a boat that sails even worse than a MacGregor powersailer count as nauseating?

 

I presume you're talking about those sails you have for your folding kayak? They don't sail that bad downwind. I have a boat that sails worse than a McGregor, an original Super Snark! I plan on refitting it this summer for my kids.

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Back to the CO thingy.... if I understand right, new mags will have to have a serial number but old mags are grandfathered. Whats to keep a guy from driving next door to UT and picking up some nice new 30 round mags and calling them "pre-ban" mags? How does that work?

 

I'm not sure that would be illegal in CO, but if it is, it will probably work about as well as other gun control laws do.

 

They'll have to lie about it. But it's relatively unenforceable. It won't deter criminals who need big magazines like that, but I suspect that most criminals prefer to use concealable weapons anyway. It might alter some of the psychology of seeing war-ready weapons for generally law-abiding people who suddenly go crazy and do crazy things. That's about the only benefit I can see.

 

States make ineffective laws all the time, they have more to do with perception than efficacy.

 

If Normy and Jeff are really upset at ineffective laws, I am sure that the States of Florida and Nevada have plenty of ineffective laws for which you two can work together to advocate their removal. What we do in Colorado seems perhaps, less of your concern when you have your own problems.

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Removing high capacity magazines from showrooms and display stands at gun shows will do a lot to turn down the fever pitch our gun hobbyists seem to be operating at. Going into a store, they will not be enticed to enhance their arsenals with unnecessary accessories. They keep some of their hard earned cash to buy other things that are better for their quality of life.

 

Baby steps.

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Mike, prohibiting sales in the state is more than "maybe" hostile to the company. It's definitely hostile.

 

JBSF is officially a Florida resident now, and people from across the country seem interested in our voting laws and gun laws, despite having problems in their own states. That's because what happens in one state can affect the rest of us in others.

 

I was talking about my Sun Cat, not my Klepper foldable, but now that you mention it, I do have two boats that sail worse than a MacGregor powersailer. Our Adventure Islands are probably worse beating upwind too, but that would be a closer call.

 

Ed, I have never been interested in an Evil Black Rifle before, but all the talk of banning and confiscating them is making me interested. The current prices and lack of availability reflect the fact that I'm not the only one. I have been to gun shows and never once been "enticed" to buy one by their presence. If you want to find the cause of the "fever pitch" that has you concerned, go find a mirror.

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How is it stupid? They are in it to make money! Wayne's earning his salary now, big time.

 

No, I get that. Supply and demand and all....

 

Stupidity mainly on the part of the people pushing to ban a type of rifle that is used so infrequently that it barely registers on the stats. For instance, the gun I'm buying will be used in tactical rifle competitions. If you outlaw that just because its black and scary looking - you will have squashed a sport enjoyed by thousands every week. Stupidity,

 

Do they need to look like military weapons? If they're used in tactical shooting competitions why not have them look like civilian weapons? Yellow and black like a typical piece of industrial equipment.

 

The different look wouldn't take away from your new gun's effectiveness, just discourage the mentally ill perhaps?

Don't the mentally ill already have enough problems without us discouraging them?

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Bill to seize registered guns dead in California

 

Bonta also said he was keenly aware of the gun lobby's assertion that any state or national registration of firearms is merely a prelude to confiscation — something his bill actually pursued.

 

"I didn't want to have a bill that plays into that argument," he said.

 

Here's a tip for him that might be helpful in the future: if you do not want people to think you support a law to confiscate guns, try to avoid introducing a law to confiscate guns.

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Mike, prohibiting sales in the state is more than "maybe" hostile to the company. It's definitely hostile.

 

Was banning the disposal of PCBs in the Hudson River "definitely hostile* to General Electric?

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Bill to seize registered guns dead in California

 

Bonta also said he was keenly aware of the gun lobby's assertion that any state or national registration of firearms is merely a prelude to confiscation — something his bill actually pursued.

 

"I didn't want to have a bill that plays into that argument," he said.

 

Here's a tip for him that might be helpful in the future: if you do not want people to think you support a law to confiscate guns, try to avoid introducing a law to confiscate guns.

 

A law to register guns does not equate to a law to confiscate weapons, except within the NRA type credo.

Seems you are being less than honest again.

 

Re: "fever pitch". FYI it describes not SE but gun-foolish types who defend guns all day every day, with US gun abuse in the foreground.

 

Who was the idiot foiled last week planning a mass shooting in FL? He had high-capacity magazines ready, and other high-capacity mags from internet mail-order in un-opened packages.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/ucf-gunmans-list-ended-give-em-helle/story?id=18762704#.UVCN_hzvsWQ

 

You support such crap, do ya, Tom?

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...

Constitutional? That's the Supreme Courts job.

 

Mag capacity? Most cops would prefer their opponents had as little of that as possible....

 

 

Seems to me that banning standard capacity magazines treats all gun owners as opponents of cops. We are not.

'Not an opponent'...up until the moment one of your 'pards' sells a weapon to a criminal at a gun show, and it escapes into the wild....(where DO all those guns come from anyway?)

like the government would never do that. never.

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Mike, magazines are not toxic waste.

 

And nor are industrial chemicals plastic bullet holders.

 

I demonstrated that sometimes governments make choices in support of their constituents that are mostly about doing something perceived as being helpful to the people and very little about being hostile to the company.

 

General Electric was and is a valued part of the economy of NY State but they had to make a change in their business practice as something perceived necessary for the citizens of NY.

 

Similarly, you seem to suggest that the Colorado magazine law was to punish the manufacturers. I think it was more about serving the citizens (presumably the majority) who supported it. Contrary to what you claim, the law seemed to be responsive to the needs of the manufacturers. They're still allowed to conduct their business, they just need to add a relatively inexpensive serial burner to their production line.

 

You might say something like " Cliffy, we know that PCBs are poisonous, and we know that big ammunition magazines are harmless."

 

But remember, we once assumed PCBs were harmless and tomatoes were toxic. Time corrected that for us. For all we know, making it harder to get big magazines may improve our lives in this state. I'm a bit ambivalent about it ... I think these kind of laws are usually ineffective showpieces, but I also don't see military-style guns as an expression of Second Amendment rights.

 

Magpul has Colorado employees working there. I'm sure the owners feel that Colorado is hostile to them, as you claim. But what's missing I think is some full-cycle accounting. Maybe the potential benefit to their employees and customers outweighs the cost of the serializing?

 

The toy industry voluntarily gives up profits and freedom to protect the families of their employees and customers. This is good business in my opinion, and it's something I see as missing from the firearm industry. It's so busy fighting every little battle regardless of social cost that it is endangering my Second Amendment rights by casting all gun owners as whackjobs who will eagerly stockpile ammo and weapons for perceived fear of having gun laws changed even when they don't infringe on the Second. This Colorado Airlift marketing campaign was a case in point.

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Bill to seize registered guns dead in California

 

Bonta also said he was keenly aware of the gun lobby's assertion that any state or national registration of firearms is merely a prelude to confiscation — something his bill actually pursued.

 

"I didn't want to have a bill that plays into that argument," he said.

 

Here's a tip for him that might be helpful in the future: if you do not want people to think you support a law to confiscate guns, try to avoid introducing a law to confiscate guns.

 

A law to register guns does not equate to a law to confiscate weapons...

 

But a law to confiscate registered guns does, and that is what I posted about. Do you have an opinion on his proposal and/or his decision to withdraw it?

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Guest One of Five

Monday April 01, 2013

The Buffalo News.com

 

 

City & Region

 

 

 

 

 

 

“This is a very significant case,” said James B. Jacobs, a constitutional law professor and director of the Center for Research in Crime and Justice at the New York University School of Law. “It may go all the way to the Supreme Court.” In this AP file photo, gun rights advocates hold signs as they demonstrate outside the Capitol on Feb. 28 in Albany. Mike Groll/AP

Gun-rights expert call local challenge to SAFE Act 'significant'

Case could go all the way to the Supreme Court

 

BY: Jerry Zremski

Published: March 30, 2013, 07:58 PM

Updated: March 31, 2013, 12:14 AM

WASHINGTON – In the marble-columned courthouse where five Supreme Court justices ruled that American citizens have the right to keep and bear arms, the gun-control law that Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo calls the SAFE Act could one day find itself in grave danger.</