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Ideas to save sailing

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Hello,

 

I love sailing and believe that if can become much more commonly acceptable and available then it is at present.

 

Some idea's:

1. A sailing body that lobbies cities to appreciate and make new space available for Sailing Clubs. An organization that will unsure sailing space is given and increased in area's where it makes sense.

 

2. High density sailing clubs. My idea calls for the creation of a 10-20 boat level rack that has a system to quickly launch or retrieve all boats. If city/waterfront space is becoming more valuable, why don't we design/create clubs that are 5x, or 10 times as space efficient as they are at present.

 

3.2013 like one design classes. Why can't we get the whole industry together to embrace the production of 12 sailing boat designs; Allow and encourage any different boats, but have a centralized focus of 12 designs that the greatest sailing minds will be working together to make perfect.

 

Please post any other idea's that you think this sport could profit from.

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Public access to the water is key as are people who are passionate even to spent time sharing the joys of sailing with others. At the moment at SALM we are getting 100-120 kids on boats every saturday. They are both able bodied and disabled or disadvantaged, we do this for free and all the mentoring, instruction and skippering is done by a team of high school student volunteers..kids teaching kids..if you come here on the weekend you could see saving sailing in action......It helps that we have the most accessible sailing facility in the US and we are fully supported by the local Miami-Dade local government as well as Miami-Dade Schools who provide bussing for the kids to get there, but it takes a village to raise a kid, or in this case a city to teach a kid to sail....

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Getting kids to sail is easy, we've been doing it for years and where is sailing now? The lack is in people to own boats that they sail (rather than let sit). What is needed is a plan to get the 20-somethings just out of college out on the water. Those are the people that can make the time, spend the money on gear and memberships and grow into lifelong sailors.

 

Kids are fickle and there's a 15 year investment to maturity time to see if you made a sailor. Lot's of feel good, though.

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We somehow destroyed the economy that allowed a new college grad to look forward to a family, house, leisure time, and money. Until that comes back..............good luck. 20 somethings with McJobs or NoJobs are trying to figure out how to get out of the basement, not how to buy boats. Student loans will be sucking that disposable income away for awhile.............

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We somehow destroyed the economy that allowed a new college grad to look forward to a family, house, leisure time, and money. Until that comes back..............good luck. 20 somethings with McJobs or NoJobs are trying to figure out how to get out of the basement, not how to buy boats. Student loans will be sucking that disposable income away for awhile.............

 

Spot on... I think that's about as solid a reason it's in decline right now as can be spoken. I recall times only 8-10 years past when there was a waiting list for docks in the major marinas up our way... now they have slips available all summer long. People just can't afford them.

 

Unemployment and underemployment eat into income, or free time or both. Because sailing is a sport with a long learning curve, it may take some time to recover from this... The good news is, the price of fuel isn't going down... for people who already spend time on the water there may be some coming from stink potters to rags. Trick is to help those that do make the transition, and stick with it. I wonder how often that happens.

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Why is it so many think sailing needs to be saved? Saved from what and for whom? Those who want to sail and are truly passionate about sailing will always find a way to go sailing.

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check out "is sailing going turtle" thread in dinghy anarachy.

 

The issues differ from country to country and state to state and what you think the decline is, depending on what part of the sailing community you come from, dinghy, offshore, delivery etc...

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Why is it so many think sailing needs to be saved? Saved from what and for whom? Those who want to sail and are truly passionate about sailing will always find a way to go sailing.

 

There's a point. We tend to have a "grow or die" mentality that can overstrip a market. Perhaps we need to look at sustainablility rather than expansion. That said, just looking at the extent of potbellies and grey hair at yacht clubs (and in the mirror) a cause of concern is what happens in the next ten years when larger numbers of the baby boomers get infirm and die. Even if we can't grow the sport, we should work toward preventing it from shrinking too much.

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The RCYC came up with a plan to destroy sailing. They propose to cut the initiation fee by 50% for those that don't have a boat to bring to the Club. Now for half price you can use the total facility which is basically an all year round country club. Try to bring in a boat and your initiation fee doubles. How is that for brilliant ! Half price people can now sit on your dock and have a picnic and laugh at you on your boat without any thought of thanking you for paying double so you can tie lines to a feeble dock structure. Would any of you people out there like to import this brain trust to your Club........even if just for a while? Come on. Be nice. Take them please!

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The RCYC came up with a plan to destroy sailing. They propose to cut the initiation fee by 50% for those that don't have a boat to bring to the Club. Now for half price you can use the total facility which is basically an all year round country club. Try to bring in a boat and your initiation fee doubles. How is that for brilliant ! Half price people can now sit on your dock and have a picnic and laugh at you on your boat without any thought of thanking you for paying double so you can tie lines to a feeble dock structure. Would any of you people out there like to import this brain trust to your Club........even if just for a while? Come on. Be nice. Take them please!

 

Counter with the opposite. Twice as much as boat owners. If it's more expensive for the posers, they'll value it even more. Push through a resolution that only boat owners can vote while you still have enough boat owners to do so. Get some wealthy boat owners to sponsor the initiation fee of some good sailors. Load the dice, it's not about fair but survival.

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The RCYC came up with a plan to destroy sailing. They propose to cut the initiation fee by 50% for those that don't have a boat to bring to the Club. Now for half price you can use the total facility which is basically an all year round country club. Try to bring in a boat and your initiation fee doubles. How is that for brilliant ! Half price people can now sit on your dock and have a picnic and laugh at you on your boat without any thought of thanking you for paying double so you can tie lines to a feeble dock structure. Would any of you people out there like to import this brain trust to your Club........even if just for a while? Come on. Be nice. Take them please!

 

lol watch me shed a single tear for all the idiots at rcyc paying more than my entire yearly disposable income in club fees. If you want sailing to grow lets make it less of an upper class white peoples club.

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When was the last time we saw excitment over sailing? Does the AC generate it? Do the around the globe races? What does the average person who enjoys sailing in your area see? Lots of folks just out there having fun or does it seem like you need a 40,000 dollar 20 something to go race and have fun? When you talk to new people, do you talk PHRF down? Is there another way for sailors to get involved with your club with the old boat they have? When they go to the local boat show for something fun to do, are there lots of affordable sailing options for them to look at and get excited about? Can they go from 22 footer to 22 footer and get excited about the possibilty of them buying and sailing one? Is the local sailing group so clic-ish that new comers don't seem welcome unless they drink like a fish? Does that new member see members of the old guard or their newly joined friends get the next dock space ahead of them? Does the racing rules get changed when the wrong new comer starts to win? Do you ridicule the new posters on this site when they ask newbie questions?

 

In many cases, we sailors are the worst enemy sailing has. The economy is a close second, but that can be overcome if we just fix the biggest issue, ourselves.

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When was the last time we saw excitment over sailing? Does the AC generate it? Do the around the globe races? What does the average person who enjoys sailing in your area see? Lots of folks just out there having fun or does it seem like you need a 40,000 dollar 20 something to go race and have fun? When you talk to new people, do you talk PHRF down? Is there another way for sailors to get involved with your club with the old boat they have? When they go to the local boat show for something fun to do, are there lots of affordable sailing options for them to look at and get excited about? Can they go from 22 footer to 22 footer and get excited about the possibilty of them buying and sailing one? Is the local sailing group so clic-ish that new comers don't seem welcome unless they drink like a fish? Does that new member see members of the old guard or their newly joined friends get the next dock space ahead of them? Does the racing rules get changed when the wrong new comer starts to win? Do you ridicule the new posters on this site when they ask newbie questions?

 

In many cases, we sailors are the worst enemy sailing has. The economy is a close second, but that can be overcome if we just fix the biggest issue, ourselves.

 

TotalXS you must be living in hell. I always thought Jacksonville was kinda nice. Sadly your worst enemy is your own government. That is what is turning people off sailing or boating for that matter. You must have 6 or more police agencies fighting for Federal Dollars by harrassing boaters. Sherriff, Marine Patrol, Staties, Coast Guard , military ops, etc etc. They take turns stopping people and tramping on their boats looking at life preservers etc whilst wearing combat boots, not boat shoes. Nothing ruins a days boating quicker. As for Newbies, tough. As for the sadness of your Club's cliqishness, again tough. No one joins a club without knowing someone or two within it and it is their job to make it right. You reference losers with personal failures. This is not all Clubs. BUT, the intervention of the state operatives or municipal for that matter and incessant regulation will soon kill the sport. Easier to just hit a golf ball.

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Mac 30x?

 

New production 25-30 foot boat that doesn't cost $75,000+ ?

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1. Stuff the pipe FULL of people learning how to do it right. The first time an ill-informed sailor takes his friends out and scares the shit out of them, all those are forever lost...except for the adrenaline freak.

 

1a. Through the couponing industry schools are teaching more students now than every before. Conversion rates suck...partly due to the experiential nature of the coupon buyer and partly because schools just aren't effective at converting people to the lifestyle.

 

2. I have, for a very long time, tried to educate the marine industry to fully support community and commercial sailing schools. Ski and windsurf industries faced the same extinction at different times. The Ski industry faced up and made schooling a priority...not so much with the Windsurf biz. Who's left now?

 

3. Sailing schools, by and large, teach on boats 20-30-40 year old boats. Why? There's just not many boats out there at a cost to keep lessons affordable. Face it, Schools are located on some of the most expensive real estate on the planet, have huge equipment costs (if they are using current/pertinent equipment), have burdensome federal legislation (Jones Act), a high pay wage for instructors as they need to be licensed captains...hence a long-term, fully committed lifestyle employee and a very hard task at marketing their product in an ever-increasing competitive lifestyle market.

 

4. Combatting the "Matrix" generation wherein they need to learn everything about it in a weekend. Sailing is hard, that's what makes it good!

 

5. http://sailsfbay.org Access will always be an issue. The key thing is to get everyone in your local area on the SAME page. We have in SF Bay formed a large group of sailing industry stakeholders including the normal cast of characters PLUS wqaterfront cities/communities and the groups that are mandated in some fashion to expand sailing. SailSFBay.org has just become the fulfilling organization reaching out to local youth for the ACEA's promise to the City of SF. We are working hand in hand with local Ports, Cities and various agencies to expand sailing and to connect waterfront community deeper into these very same agencies.

 

It would be GREAT if every sailing community had this 'symbiosis' working all along it's waterfront. Numbers = Voice.

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Hello,

 

I love sailing and believe that if can become much more commonly acceptable and available then it is at present.

 

Some idea's:

1. A sailing body that lobbies cities to appreciate and make new space available for Sailing Clubs. An organization that will unsure sailing space is given and increased in area's where it makes sense.

 

Because every locality is different and every sailing organization, yacht club or community sailing center has different needs, this kind of lobbying effort can be done most effectively on the local level. Like any lobbying effort, to make it succeed you need a persuasive need / story, a potential solution which isn't too costly for the general public, one or more leaders who will devote the time and energy to a long, difficult and frustrating process, a constituency backing up the leader, and money. Getting all those things to coincide is hard and anyone who is involved is going to want to see a local, personal benefit. Umbrella organizations can provide some help (mostly information and tips from similar efforts elsewhere), but a geographically large organization isn't the ideal entity to deal with the issues involved, which are almost entirely local.

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When was the last time we saw excitment over sailing? Does the AC generate it? Do the around the globe races? What does the average person who enjoys sailing in your area see? Lots of folks just out there having fun or does it seem like you need a 40,000 dollar 20 something to go race and have fun? When you talk to new people, do you talk PHRF down? Is there another way for sailors to get involved with your club with the old boat they have? When they go to the local boat show for something fun to do, are there lots of affordable sailing options for them to look at and get excited about? Can they go from 22 footer to 22 footer and get excited about the possibilty of them buying and sailing one? Is the local sailing group so clic-ish that new comers don't seem welcome unless they drink like a fish? Does that new member see members of the old guard or their newly joined friends get the next dock space ahead of them? Does the racing rules get changed when the wrong new comer starts to win? Do you ridicule the new posters on this site when they ask newbie questions?

 

In many cases, we sailors are the worst enemy sailing has. The economy is a close second, but that can be overcome if we just fix the biggest issue, ourselves.

 

TotalXS you must be living in hell. I always thought Jacksonville was kinda nice. Sadly your worst enemy is your own government. That is what is turning people off sailing or boating for that matter. You must have 6 or more police agencies fighting for Federal Dollars by harrassing boaters. Sherriff, Marine Patrol, Staties, Coast Guard , military ops, etc etc. They take turns stopping people and tramping on their boats looking at life preservers etc whilst wearing combat boots, not boat shoes. Nothing ruins a days boating quicker. As for Newbies, tough. As for the sadness of your Club's cliqishness, again tough. No one joins a club without knowing someone or two within it and it is their job to make it right. You reference losers with personal failures. This is not all Clubs. BUT, the intervention of the state operatives or municipal for that matter and incessant regulation will soon kill the sport. Easier to just hit a golf ball.

 

As a boater for over 43 years, the questions in my post were based on not only personal experiences, but on what others have said. The answers to the questions will often be different depending on your location, but for the most part, all of us have seen or heard the same things through the years. It is just part of the problem.

 

Jacksonville isn't hell, it is just like everywhere else - good and bad all mixed up. And I hate golf...

 

I will say that in Jacksonville, access isn't a big issue, there are clubs priced for eveyone, and the river is not a bad place to sail. The racing isn't bad, but is not what it was just 15 or so years ago. The boat shows are pretty useless for salors and there is very little of any pubilcity (marketing).

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Hello,

 

I love sailing and believe that if can become much more commonly acceptable and available then it is at present.

 

Some idea's:

2. High density sailing clubs. My idea calls for the creation of a 10-20 boat level rack that has a system to quickly launch or retrieve all boats. If city/waterfront space is becoming more valuable, why don't we design/create clubs that are 5x, or 10 times as space efficient as they are at present.

 

A good idea, for the few who need it. Whether such a system is cost effective varies according to a club's needs and facilities. Clubs tend to put in whatever system best combines what they can afford with what they need. Some places basically already have very space-efficient systems - see for example some of the college sailing facilities on the Charles River in Boston where they hang up boats vertically like in a meat locker. You can stack Optis 3 or 4 high in a simple Opti rack, which makes it possible to store a lot of Optis in a small space. My own club built a custom 10-Laser rack which stores Lasers on their side rails and they can be rolled in or out with one or two people. It wasn't expensive or difficult, it just needed someone to take the project by the horns and do it.

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Hello,

 

I love sailing and believe that if can become much more commonly acceptable and available then it is at present.

 

Some idea's:

3.2013 like one design classes. Why can't we get the whole industry together to embrace the production of 12 sailing boat designs; Allow and encourage any different boats, but have a centralized focus of 12 designs that the greatest sailing minds will be working together to make perfect.

Please post any other idea's that you think this sport could profit from.

 

The reason there are more than 12 one design classes in the world is that there are more than 12 sets of needs. Every boat design is a compromise and various sailors need designs which emphasize various things. Only in a utopia could you ever get the "greatest sailing minds working together" and I guarantee that even if you could get them to try, you could never get them to agree. The current laissez-faire system which in which classes live and die according to the market is probably the best that can be. Look at all the awesome options it's given us! Depending on what you want / need / can afford, you could sail anything from a kite to a windsurfer to a Optimist to a dinghy to a small keelboat to a sport boat to a catamaran to a racer/cruiser to an offshore sailing yacht to an America's Cup AC72 -- with hundreds of options in between. The last thing we need is some body of "experts" telling us to limit ourselves to 12 approved designs.

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I think it's important to continue to grow the number of people who participate in the sport. The best way to do this is to get them involved at a young age. Someone who learns to love to sail starting at age 8 is likely to continue in the sport for a lifetime (when possible after work, family, etc.) It's much harder to get people involved as adults -- there are just more hangups about learning the sport.

 

I think the community sailing center model is one which should be duplicated more. I consider that model to be: non-exclusive membership; low dues; group ownership of one or more fleets; sailing instruction; and racing.

 

The huge advantage of this model is that for parents, it decreases the cost of sailing to a reasonable level because there is no upfront boat purchase involved -- the costs of purchasing and maintaining the boats are spread over the group. Thus more and more juniors are introduced to the sport. It can be done without an expensive clubhouse and without yacht club-esque snobbery. There are some places which do it well; Boston's Community Sailing and the Milwaukee Community Sailing Center are just two which come to mind. My own club has been evolving towards that model for many years now and it's been very good for the health of the club.

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Crew! Around here, the biggest excuse for the handicap fleet is "no crew" so here's a solution: create a crew pool by recruiting from larger corp's, training the recruits on the basics and putting them on the leadmines. It gets the geriatric keelboat owners out and provides a platform to introduce the newbies into the sport. Crewing is the lowest cost of entry path into the sport so let's go get them.. In our club, the J-24 fleet was the largest provider of the next generation members because the boats are such crew hogs the owners are constantly recruiting and training. The addicted recruits became members.

 

Just on my piddly little 24 program, I've introduced about 25 people to the game and hooked 5. Imagine if an organization recruited, trained and placed people. We might actually get the next generation hooked and in place by the time the baby boomers quit drooling on themselves and die off.

 

If I sound abit cynical about the current generation of owners, at our Marti Gra party the music was elevator (think "Killing me softly") and the party was over at 8:00. How do we recruit 20-30 somethings with this?

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Another impediment is the cost of ownership in larger boats. TimeShare or Fractional sailing programs are a great way to fully participate in the sailing lifestyle with a fixed monthly cost. Programs all over the USA start at around $500/mo for a boats over 30 feet and include everything...no surprise costs.

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Crew! Around here, the biggest excuse for the handicap fleet is "no crew" so here's a solution: create a crew pool by recruiting from larger corp's, training the recruits on the basics and putting them on the leadmines. It gets the geriatric keelboat owners out and provides a platform to introduce the newbies into the sport. Crewing is the lowest cost of entry path into the sport so let's go get them.. In our club, the J-24 fleet was the largest provider of the next generation members because the boats are such crew hogs the owners are constantly recruiting and training. The addicted recruits became members.

 

Just on my piddly little 24 program, I've introduced about 25 people to the game and hooked 5. Imagine if an organization recruited, trained and placed people. We might actually get the next generation hooked and in place by the time the baby boomers quit drooling on themselves and die off.

 

If I sound abit cynical about the current generation of owners, at our Marti Gra party the music was elevator (think "Killing me softly") and the party was over at 8:00. How do we recruit 20-30 somethings with this?

 

I'd say we're in the same club, but our party was a little more fun (and we don't have any J24s!). This year we've made it a focus to make a hard push towards getting members of the community to the club and onto boats as out PHRF fleets have been shrinking and that is the common complaint. We had a very well attended (had to turn people away due to lack of boats, final number was around 30ish) free introductory sailing clinic a few weeks ago. It was blowing like stink and they went out on Shields and Santana 22's, but everyone I've talked to who attended this had a blast and wanted to sail again. This past Saturday we had a crew mixer where about a dozen of the people who went to the clinic showed up, and we had another 20 people or so stop by. We have an racing clinic scheduled in a couple weeks where we will be showing people what it's like to fly spinnakers and run a couple exhibition races. Based on the turnout, we also have another beginner clinic scheduled in April. These have all been people who have not been involved with our club before.

 

The big factors going in our favor for these things are that we have a group of boat owners who are willing to donate their boats and expertise to these events and that we have people willing to advertise: put posters up at work, engage neighbors/friends/relatives/co-workers in conversations about sailing. Getting the word out is half the battle.

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Crew! Around here, the biggest excuse for the handicap fleet is "no crew" so here's a solution: create a crew pool by recruiting from larger corp's, training the recruits on the basics and putting them on the leadmines. It gets the geriatric keelboat owners out and provides a platform to introduce the newbies into the sport. Crewing is the lowest cost of entry path into the sport so let's go get them.. In our club, the J-24 fleet was the largest provider of the next generation members because the boats are such crew hogs the owners are constantly recruiting and training. The addicted recruits became members.

 

Just on my piddly little 24 program, I've introduced about 25 people to the game and hooked 5. Imagine if an organization recruited, trained and placed people. We might actually get the next generation hooked and in place by the time the baby boomers quit drooling on themselves and die off.

 

If I sound abit cynical about the current generation of owners, at our Marti Gra party the music was elevator (think "Killing me softly") and the party was over at 8:00. How do we recruit 20-30 somethings with this?

 

Of course another way to attack the crew problem is to sail smaller boats which require fewer crew.

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Thank you everybody who has given very insightful input; that is exactly why I started this thread.

It seems like some areas don't have nearly enough space and others no demand. It seems that cost is a major factor and more affordable solutions for sail training, kid sailing, sailing facility and clubs are available.

 

To go back to my OP;

1. While local movement is best, they could probably be greatly helped by a larger body that provided practical, legal and procedural advise. Also, some areas that don't have sailing clubs at present may be great for clubs in the larger picture.

 

2. Having active sailing at major centers like T.O, Sydney, Miami etc. are pivotal to the sports growth. If we can make sailing more urban friendly it could be a real driver for the whole industry.

 

3. While I understand that there are hundreds of different needs from sailors, the main appeal for a racer is numbers. Some type of one deign approach that would adapt to changes in technology at pre set increments may work.

 

Please add more advise, opinion

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The first thing everyone needs to understand are the numbers. In 1970, 25.5M people in the U.S. said they went sailing one day or more. In 2010 the number was 2.5M. When accounting for population growth, this means that 6% of people are sailing today that did 40 years ago. The curve is steady and the economy has not had much influence on the curve. When you plot this out on paper, you can put a fork in the sport of sailing in 10-15 years at the current rate.

 

The second thing to understand is that if we keep doing what we're doing today, we should expect less participation this year and each year following as long as we don't start making major changes.

 

So is there one magic bullet to fix this? What were we doing 40 years ago that we aren't doing today? Every aspect of this sport needs to be questioned and compared to 40 years ago. In my Regional Sailing Association, I have written for over a year on what needs to be done (and I have a lot more to write about). It is easier to break it down into parts:

 

On the water - we've become way too serious drinking the IOC Kool-Aid that club racing needs to be run like an Olympic Regatta. With the invention of simpler rules, certified judges, certified race officers, shorter and more races over the past 40 years, just how has this impacted participation? My answer is, that it has caused a drop in participation as the sport has become businesslike. I feel the need to put on a suit, tie, wingtip shoes and carry a breifcase to go out racing. And this is fun? I can confirm that many leave the sport because they say, "It's not fun anymore." So the on the water answer I have is to have a different attitude and slightly different rules for Club Racing - http://lmsrf.org/lmsrf/index.php/fun-rules-of-sailing (Note - I add three more per month, it is not a complete set yet, and will be done in 2 more issues).

 

The next thing to understand is that we segregated the sport by age. It seemed like a good thing to do, but in the end it is not developing adult sailors. Read "What do the Ingrediants of Beer and Segregation Have to do with Sailing? http://lmsrf.org/lmsrf/images/stories/newsletters/2012_10_newsletter.pdf

 

After that, we need to redefine what "fun" is. By going round and round the course and making that the definition of "fun" we are seeing that people are quitting. We have made "winning is everything." You see it on peoples faces, the daily or regatta winner has a huge smile. But 2nd through last place are licking their wounds and clearly are not have as much "fun." I've written many articles on fun, with one of the bigger ones "Three-Eyed Toad & Manufactured Fun." http://lmsrf.org/lmsrf/images/stories/newsletters/2012_11_Newsletter.pdf

 

The idea is between the two prior paragraphs that getting the youth sailing with adults again as when they did 40 years ago, that something needs to be provided for the youth when hitting the beach after sailing while the adults drink some swill.

 

Poking fun at the seriousness and seeking perfection that the IOC, ISAF and US Sailing drive down our throats, the societal impact of "perfect racing" has driven away many people, and the solutions are simple, and that is to move away from "skill sets" racing and go back to "racing with luck." Read "The Priest, the Rabbi and the Hooker and Short Course Windward/Leeward Racing." http://lmsrf.org/lmsrf/images/stories/newsletters/2012_12_Newsletter.pdf

 

We have a long way to go, and a short time to get there in order to rebuild numbers in this sport. We need to undo 40 years of having fun eliminated and having made racing way too serious. If you don't believe me, just keep making it more serious and watch the numbers continue to dwindle. Or, start adding the crazy, wild, goofy insane fun times once again - go read "Back when sailing was fun" by K Lorence as an example.

 

The reason is, how did we sell the sport 40 years ago? It was because on Monday morning we were still laughing about the shenanigans and pranks that happened over the weekend. We'd tell our friends, family, neighbors and co-workers about the crazy stuff that happened gasping for air laughing so hard (which was not stories about how great we were on the race course). The listeners would be comparing their weekend to our weekend. Once they heard what happened, they would ask us, "Can I come some time?" And this is how we brought new people in. We had a massive sales force, only we had no idea we were selling sailing, we just thought we were telling great stories!

 

Today, we have no sales force. Ta-da!

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Crew! Around here, the biggest excuse for the handicap fleet is "no crew" so here's a solution: create a crew pool by recruiting from larger corp's, training the recruits on the basics and putting them on the leadmines. It gets the geriatric keelboat owners out and provides a platform to introduce the newbies into the sport. Crewing is the lowest cost of entry path into the sport so let's go get them.. In our club, the J-24 fleet was the largest provider of the next generation members because the boats are such crew hogs the owners are constantly recruiting and training. The addicted recruits became members.

 

Just on my piddly little 24 program, I've introduced about 25 people to the game and hooked 5. Imagine if an organization recruited, trained and placed people. We might actually get the next generation hooked and in place by the time the baby boomers quit drooling on themselves and die off.

 

If I sound abit cynical about the current generation of owners, at our Marti Gra party the music was elevator (think "Killing me softly") and the party was over at 8:00. How do we recruit 20-30 somethings with this?

 

I identified 8 "Crew Schools" both at clubs and at for-profit sailing schools. It is a bit of a cottage industry, not very well known. I brought all of them together at Strictly Sail Chicago in a seminar room to educate the public about what they offer.

 

They are designed as the entry point into sailing, it is for adults to learn bow from stern, port from starboard, mast from boom, how to wrap a winch the right way, etc. Commonly they offer classroom work, and then mate them up with a volunteer boat owner at the club who will take them out and give them hands-on experience. Clubs commonly give charging privilages on class night, so the students get a taste of what club membership is like. Courses range from 6 - 12 weeks, one night a week. The for-profit schools do all of their training onboard, and no class time. The key is, what do they do with the graduates and how do they get them on a boat? The club's commonly have a meet and greet night for owners who need crew to meet these graduates. The for- profit schools commonly have boats to charter out who need crew, and they have contacts in the sailing community and help place their graduates onto boats.

 

You are right, there is a big need for crew, too many boats don't go out because they don't have crew for a particular day. But in analysis, it is a two way street. How do you know that a boat (pick a random one in the fleet) needs crew? And how does a boat know that there are crew (in general) standing by?

 

Looking at the boat/crew finder websites, they all seem too wide geographically (most are worldwide) to sort through too much stuff and have to go to too many websites to find a boat or a crew position. Some websites are just too restrictive, with posts for crew for just the single event at a club. We may embark on a crew / boat finder website that is much narrower in geography, just to our local region. We also see that logistics is always a nightmare when delivering boats from location to location, and having a logistcs module could come in really handy (people volunteering to move cars around, pick up people, need crew for those long deliveried, etc.).

 

Yes, we need to solve the crew problem, and it seems that there are plenty of crew available, however, making the connection or knowing who is needed or wanted is the big problem.

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I think it's important to continue to grow the number of people who participate in the sport. The best way to do this is to get them involved at a young age. Someone who learns to love to sail starting at age 8 is likely to continue in the sport for a lifetime (when possible after work, family, etc.) It's much harder to get people involved as adults -- there are just more hangups about learning the sport.

 

I think the community sailing center model is one which should be duplicated more. I consider that model to be: non-exclusive membership; low dues; group ownership of one or more fleets; sailing instruction; and racing.

 

The huge advantage of this model is that for parents, it decreases the cost of sailing to a reasonable level because there is no upfront boat purchase involved -- the costs of purchasing and maintaining the boats are spread over the group. Thus more and more juniors are introduced to the sport. It can be done without an expensive clubhouse and without yacht club-esque snobbery. There are some places which do it well; Boston's Community Sailing and the Milwaukee Community Sailing Center are just two which come to mind. My own club has been evolving towards that model for many years now and it's been very good for the health of the club.

 

 

Agree. New Orleans has formed a nonprofit group trying to do just that. Harbor management committee has just voted in a long term lease for them at one of the corners in the outer harbor at West End. May be several years yet for it to happen but it is a grass-roots effort that has good support from the powers that be. Stay tuned.

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The RCYC came up with a plan to destroy sailing. They propose to cut the initiation fee by 50% for those that don't have a boat to bring to the Club. Now for half price you can use the total facility which is basically an all year round country club. Try to bring in a boat and your initiation fee doubles. How is that for brilliant ! Half price people can now sit on your dock and have a picnic and laugh at you on your boat without any thought of thanking you for paying double so you can tie lines to a feeble dock structure. Would any of you people out there like to import this brain trust to your Club........even if just for a while? Come on. Be nice. Take them please!

 

lol watch me shed a single tear for all the idiots at rcyc paying more than my entire yearly disposable income in club fees. If you want sailing to grow lets make it less of an upper class white peoples club.

 

STOP!

 

Hold it right there! Why is it that Upper class white people have to share everything in the fucking world. First of all Sailing isn't broken. There are healthy aspects of every segment of the sport. Look at how many new designs were produced this past year alone. There is no shortage of equipment, sail makers, new tech, etc.

 

Just because the Nascar crowd is unaware of your sport is that a bad thing? Just because RCYC has a parking lot full of cars worth more than most boats at Ashbridge's bay are they doing something wrong? Both clubs seem to be surviving quite well.

 

There is a 3 year waiting list for a 40 foot slip at my marina which has just invested 2.3 million dollars for new docks this spring.

 

The bare boat scene is good as ever, when speaking to the owners of several in the Carib.

 

One design fleets are healthy and continuing to evolve. J22's to J70 etc.

 

20 starters in the Vendee, Volvo will have all new 65's, records being broken (BP5 for example).

 

Yes my marina is gated and has security and Joe public is not welcome, and my clubs are private. I really like the fact that I don't have to worry about my Very expensive sporting goods while I'm not there.

 

So what is it we are saving?

 

If you need a cause, fix the world economy and sailing will take care of its self.

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0 deposit and 0% interest on boat loan with payback period of 10 years (club support for discount storage) would just about give anybody with a desire to go sailing the ability to do so.

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Overcoming the cost of entry:

- 1yr grace period on club entry fees

- More emphasis on dinghy sailing to lower the cost of entry

- YC's dedicate funds towards acquiring and maintaining club one design dinghies/small daysailers, even older classes, to lower the cost of entry

- Mandatory mentoring programs in clubs in the same way that mandatory RC duty has been implemented in many clubs

 

Overcoming the continual whining that the rules are too complicated:

- YC's hold mandatory rules seminars and combine these with some for of game/simulation/quiz to make learning more interesting, engaging etc... and combine with a social event.

- Make completion of the rules seminars a prerequisite for anyone that wants to race in the club

- Promote rotation through an RC training program and reward time served on the RC

 

Make courses and events more interesting

- more varied courses and less emphasis on W/L sausage racing.

- add some multi class fun events using the simple Portsmouth Yardstick and inlude keel boats and dinghies in the same events

- include some fun point-to-point races even for dinghies and crusty old boats

- mandatory participation in fun events for all boats in the club... None of this sitting around rotting

 

Just a few ideas that stem from what used to make it fun

 

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There is an awful lot of "somebody else must pay for me to go sailing" in this thread.

 

Too much boat "provided free of charge when I was a kid".

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0 deposit and 0% interest on boat loan with payback period of 10 years (club support for discount storage) would just about give anybody with a desire to go sailing the ability to do so.

I would certainly jump on that deal if offered to me. A free boat loan for ten years, the period of the loan when the boat loses most of its value, and then just give it back to the lender at the end, whoo hoo! But who would offer that deal? Guaranteed money loser for the lender. And of course any time you ask a club to provide a discount on anything - storage, membership - what you are in effect doing is asking the some members of the club to pay costs of other members. This kind of "discount" (really just cost shifting) might bring new members but it's a great way to encourage the current members to quit.

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The RCYC came up with a plan to destroy sailing. They propose to cut the initiation fee by 50% for those that don't have a boat to bring to the Club. Now for half price you can use the total facility which is basically an all year round country club. Try to bring in a boat and your initiation fee doubles. How is that for brilliant ! Half price people can now sit on your dock and have a picnic and laugh at you on your boat without any thought of thanking you for paying double so you can tie lines to a feeble dock structure. Would any of you people out there like to import this brain trust to your Club........even if just for a while? Come on. Be nice. Take them please!

 

lol watch me shed a single tear for all the idiots at rcyc paying more than my entire yearly disposable income in club fees. If you want sailing to grow lets make it less of an upper class white peoples club.

 

STOP!

 

Hold it right there! Why is it that Upper class white people have to share everything in the fucking world. First of all Sailing isn't broken. There are healthy aspects of every segment of the sport. Look at how many new designs were produced this past year alone. There is no shortage of equipment, sail makers, new tech, etc.

 

Just because the Nascar crowd is unaware of your sport is that a bad thing? Just because RCYC has a parking lot full of cars worth more than most boats at Ashbridge's bay are they doing something wrong? Both clubs seem to be surviving quite well.

 

 

Are you kidding? Given the 10,000% growth of Toronto since 1920, keeping a full parking lot full at RCYC is irrelevant. If a club isn't growing 5% a year, then it is shrinking. My second idea of multi level dinghy storage would probably be more relevant to your club than any. How many 10 to 25 yr olds do you train a year? 30? Maybe 100?.

 

There are 10's of thousands of well off people in Toronto that could be steered towards sailing. Thousands of youth that could be hooked on the sport.

 

As to your comments on the health of the sail makers, equipment and new designs; It is a facade and almost all of them are minutes away from going under.

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Overcoming the cost of entry:

- 1yr grace period on club entry fees

- More emphasis on dinghy sailing to lower the cost of entry

- YC's dedicate funds towards acquiring and maintaining club one design dinghies/small daysailers, even older classes, to lower the cost of entry

- Mandatory mentoring programs in clubs in the same way that mandatory RC duty has been implemented in many clubs

 

Overcoming the continual whining that the rules are too complicated:

- YC's hold mandatory rules seminars and combine these with some for of game/simulation/quiz to make learning more interesting, engaging etc... and combine with a social event.

- Make completion of the rules seminars a prerequisite for anyone that wants to race in the club

- Promote rotation through an RC training program and reward time served on the RC

 

Make courses and events more interesting

- more varied courses and less emphasis on W/L sausage racing.

- add some multi class fun events using the simple Portsmouth Yardstick and inlude keel boats and dinghies in the same events

- include some fun point-to-point races even for dinghies and crusty old boats

- mandatory participation in fun events for all boats in the club... None of this sitting around rotting

 

Just a few ideas that stem from what used to make it fun

 

Some of those are good ideas.

 

But, anything which contains the word "mandatory" is a great way to turn off existing and potential members.

 

Mandatory rules clinics, in order to race? For sailors who are already reasonably current on the rules, the clinic would be a waste of time.

 

Mandatory participation in club events? Puhleese. People have to be able to set their own life priorities. What are you going to do if they don't show, fire them as members?

 

Mandatory mentoring? I've seen it tried in other contexts (at work) and it does not work. For a mentoring relationship to be useful the parties have to have a real connection - they have to like each other. People don't have time to mentor someone they don't feel a connection to.

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Overcoming the cost of entry:

- 1yr grace period on club entry fees

- More emphasis on dinghy sailing to lower the cost of entry

- YC's dedicate funds towards acquiring and maintaining club one design dinghies/small daysailers, even older classes, to lower the cost of entry

- Mandatory mentoring programs in clubs in the same way that mandatory RC duty has been implemented in many clubs

 

Overcoming the continual whining that the rules are too complicated:

- YC's hold mandatory rules seminars and combine these with some for of game/simulation/quiz to make learning more interesting, engaging etc... and combine with a social event.

- Make completion of the rules seminars a prerequisite for anyone that wants to race in the club

- Promote rotation through an RC training program and reward time served on the RC

 

Make courses and events more interesting

- more varied courses and less emphasis on W/L sausage racing.

- add some multi class fun events using the simple Portsmouth Yardstick and inlude keel boats and dinghies in the same events

- include some fun point-to-point races even for dinghies and crusty old boats

- mandatory participation in fun events for all boats in the club... None of this sitting around rotting

 

Just a few ideas that stem from what used to make it fun

 

Some of those are good ideas.

 

But, anything which contains the word "mandatory" is a great way to turn off existing and potential members.

 

Mandatory rules clinics, in order to race? For sailors who are already reasonably current on the rules, the clinic would be a waste of time.

 

Mandatory participation in club events? Puhleese. People have to be able to set their own life priorities. What are you going to do if they don't show, fire them as members?

 

Mandatory mentoring? I've seen it tried in other contexts (at work) and it does not work. For a mentoring relationship to be useful the parties have to have a real connection - they have to like each other. People don't have time to mentor someone they don't feel a connection to.

Somehow the status quo has to change if there is dwindling interest and clubs end up renting their facilities for weddings and other events to make ends meet.

 

Mandatory rule clinics for newcomers to the sport. Isn't this about new blood in the sport? Too many get out there and don't understand the game, then complain the rules are too complicated. In addition, what's wrong with seasoned sailors taking refresher seminars? It's evident in the SA threads that we can all do with it.

 

Yes mandatory participation. It's evident that a lot of boats sit at club facilities consuming dry storage or slips and are hardly ever used. That causes a log jam for people that want to participate, frequently causing them to keep boats elsewhere. If members can't be bothered to be active and promote a more interesting club, they are part of the problem.

 

Yes mandatory mentoring. There isn't enough of it on a voluntary basis. You make the word mandatory sound like punishment. Anyone with an interest in their club and supporting the sport will be only too happy to do something, therefore mandatory is a non issue. Mandatory is aimed at those that are part of the problem of lack of participation. It can be as simple as : Every skipper will take a novice/cadet/junior whatever you want to call them, as crew on 2 races a quarter. Mandatory in this context shouldn't be a big deal. Many clubs do this for RC "volunteers" already with little objection.

 

 

 

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You forgot mandatory psychological overview. People don't get into racing for the most part because of the psycho's already in it. It is the most abusive sport in existence. Psycho's that yell and scream and curse throughout what was a gentle sport. The gentility is gone with the advent of sport boats and youth. The mark of a quality British frigate captain was the ability to deal with battle and crises in a calm demeanor without raising one's voice. This is lost on the current crop of shriekers and their kin, the mandatory freaks.

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Sailing is about passion. People who take to sailing fall in love with the sport, the science, the art, the solace, the solitude, the camaraderie, the challenge, the freedom, the one with nature of it all.

While I see some positive suggestions from folks `I respect here, just so much about sailing is highly personal and as such we just cannot legislate nor dictate or demand of people. To do so would kill it for many and simply drive more away. Now some of them probably should be driven away for the good of the sport. By that I mean there are those who buy boats for the status or as a summer home with no intention of leaving the yacht club docks.

The other thing is that the human condition has and continues to evolve. What we are evolving into are instant gratification junkies and the current in vogue means to that is the internet and the smartphone. We want to feel we have accomplished a great deal in the minimum amount of time. Not qualified to say whether that is about our ego of conquest or endorphin release or some other condition, but that need for satisfaction just isn't conducive to sailing.

Face it, sailing is slow even when it is fast. It takes years to become proficient at sailing. Mastery is elusive to nearly if not all. Seriously here people, you and I might get a rush out of sitting, becalmed in piss on a plate conditions, and have a zephyr catch our sails and as the boat starts to make a minimum of way on declare, "WE ARE BEATING THE BUBBLES!" I mean crap, how many times have we been there with the speedo locked on triple zero and find joy at hearing one of the crew declaring ".01, .02, .3, .6... 1 KNOT, 1.4, 1.7, 2.2... hold on to your hats cats, we are flying now!"

Then there is the flip side. Out thrashing about. Just plain old getting the shit kicked out of you. A weekend of battling the elements. Wind, rain, large waves, uncomfortable slogs to weather. What we think are exhilarating runs in big breeze with terrifying crashes is just plain nuts to the average person. Torn skin, bashed and bruised and a grin from ear to ear. The majority of the civilized world would see us committed were they to come out sailing with us. They might appreciate some of the skills they can more readily grasp. Have not a clue about many others necessary to just get the boat back home in one piece. Forget about the chess game of yacht racing, its rules, the way the course shifts with every oscillation of the breeze or change of tide. That doesn't come for quite some time after the bug has bitten.

Let's face it, you could invite 100 people you meet on the street to come out sailing. Maybe a dozen would take you up on the offer. Maybe 2 or 3 might even warm to the thought of a repeat sail. The reality is that maybe one will have real interest in our sport and there probably less than a 10% chance they would stick with it all and make it a life's passion.

Sailing is a stupid sport. We have all grumbled something similar with a greater degree of regularity than we wish to admit. It is hard to learn, it takes a toll on us physically, personally, professionally and emotionally... it affects every aspect of our lives, and we love it. We are passionate about sailing like nothing else in our lives. Our boats are our mistresses and our spouses aren't sure whether they should be happy about that or not.

So sailing isn't for everyone, no shit. The sport is contracting and only those who can't live without, only those who dream of a new pair of foulies or spend their days reading about the latest and greatest new gadgets, only those who live and breath for sailing will stick around. So we have to ask ourselves, who cares? Who cares if sailing isn't now and will never be mainstream, fit for the TV audience, MTV/Facebook/Twitter generation(s). Sailing is about quality time. Sailing is about experiences, both good and bad. Sailing is about challenging ones limits and abilities. Sailing is about the intellect of the disciplines involved as well as the spirit and sport of it all. That can't be packaged, that can't be made to fit into a half hour program with commercial breaks, that can't be made to fit on a smartphone screen or a computer monitor. Sailing is our muse, sailing is our art, sailing is our love and our passion and our means to expression. It is hard fought, hard learned, teaches us hard lesson about ourselves and life in general.

It should come as no surprise that sailing is not for everyone. It can't be and it will never be. Sailing is personal in an ever evolving impersonal and connected but oddly disconnected world. You just can't ask the common or average person to paint a masterpiece.

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You forgot mandatory psychological overview. People don't get into racing for the most part because of the psycho's already in it. It is the most abusive sport in existence. Psycho's that yell and scream and curse throughout what was a gentle sport. The gentility is gone with the advent of sport boats and youth. The mark of a quality British frigate captain was the ability to deal with battle and crises in a calm demeanor without raising one's voice. This is lost on the current crop of shriekers and their kin, the mandatory freaks.

One of the most successful programs I ever saw was run by a guy you might have though was mute. Don't think I ever heard more than 4 words from him while racing: up, down, coke, cigarette. Saw his boat do a mark rounding, genoa down, spinnaker up. The sounds of the boat (winches, halyards, sails, etc.) made more noise than the crew.

 

I got out of the game for awhile because was turning into one of those folks you describe. Took a few years off, mellowed, matured and came back. I had more fun, my crew had more fun, and more people were willing to sail with me.

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Overcoming the cost of entry:

- 1yr grace period on club entry fees

- More emphasis on dinghy sailing to lower the cost of entry

- YC's dedicate funds towards acquiring and maintaining club one design dinghies/small daysailers, even older classes, to lower the cost of entry

- Mandatory mentoring programs in clubs in the same way that mandatory RC duty has been implemented in many clubs

 

Overcoming the continual whining that the rules are too complicated:

- YC's hold mandatory rules seminars and combine these with some for of game/simulation/quiz to make learning more interesting, engaging etc... and combine with a social event.

- Make completion of the rules seminars a prerequisite for anyone that wants to race in the club

- Promote rotation through an RC training program and reward time served on the RC

 

Make courses and events more interesting

- more varied courses and less emphasis on W/L sausage racing.

- add some multi class fun events using the simple Portsmouth Yardstick and inlude keel boats and dinghies in the same events

- include some fun point-to-point races even for dinghies and crusty old boats

- mandatory participation in fun events for all boats in the club... None of this sitting around rotting

 

Just a few ideas that stem from what used to make it fun

 

Some of those are good ideas.

 

But, anything which contains the word "mandatory" is a great way to turn off existing and potential members.

 

Mandatory rules clinics, in order to race? For sailors who are already reasonably current on the rules, the clinic would be a waste of time.

 

Mandatory participation in club events? Puhleese. People have to be able to set their own life priorities. What are you going to do if they don't show, fire them as members?

 

Mandatory mentoring? I've seen it tried in other contexts (at work) and it does not work. For a mentoring relationship to be useful the parties have to have a real connection - they have to like each other. People don't have time to mentor someone they don't feel a connection to.

Yes mandatory participation. It's evident that a lot of boats sit at club facilities consuming dry storage or slips and are hardly ever used. That causes a log jam for people that want to participate, frequently causing them to keep boats elsewhere. If members can't be bothered to be active and promote a more interesting club, they are part of the problem.

 

 

If a club has a problem with people renting wet or dry slips and then not participating and there are others who would like to rent those slips instead and participate, then that club is underpricing its slips. Price them correctly - to be fully rented but not with a long waiting list - and the ones who rent and don't participate will depart. A club which underprices its slips to the benefit of slipholders and to the detriment of those on the waiting list, has only itself to blame for a low participation rate by slipholders.

 

I mentor - I take a different junior each year as a crew in an annual series - but I have to do it on my own terms. Each person has a different tolerance and style for mentoring. If my club instituted mandatory mentoring I would be gone. And again, what are you going to do to the people who don't choose to mentor? Or who say they will mentor and then do nothing? Fire them as members? I thought the problem was not enough members?

 

There are better solutions to bring people into the sport, than top-down mandates which would drive people away. Sailing has to be fun. Mandates are not fun.

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Again, follow the RCYC solution. The nepotistic Board has decided that if you join and want to bring a boat to the Club you will pay twice the initiation fee of everyone else. Said everyone else has the use of the entire club, just are not allowed to tie a boat to a dock unless they are a visitor, say, every weekend. With this brain trust, sailing is doomed except for die hard cruisers that don't need a show dock or a mentor/therapist.

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Lot's of challenges and also some really great ideas!

 

Here is what I have been doing for the past 3 seasons, with 2013 being the 4th...

 

First some history...

 

In 2010, I decided that I would apply my racing and race management experience to help out my friend's sailing school and club, Sound Sailing Center in Norwalk, CT. There was no real racing program and since I use my friend's boats, Pearson Ensigns whenever I want I thought that I should give back in some way... In years past I would teach, for free, a USS Basic Keelboat course or two, but with the economy the way that it was then the instructors that were teaching needed every class they could get!

 

That first season we had less than half of the 7 Ensigns on the line and we were lucky to get 3 people per boat. The emphasis was on boathandling which, among the club members was dismal at best!

 

The second season, 2011, started off a little better. I had a meeting of all interested club members, students, friends etc... we had 8 people at the meeting. As a tool to help them understand what racing is all about I used the AudiMedCup website and gave them certain races to view as homework. The graphics and footage sucked them in and I could always tell who was watching the videos!

 

Also in 2011, we got hammered with snow and I had joined an outdoor oriented Meetup group and was organizing snowshoeing meetups all the time. Then the snow melted and I switched to organizing hiking meetups. Then around the end of June I got the idea to post the Thursday Night Club racing program on the meetup site... Everything changed after that!!! We went from club members sailing together in a handful of ensigns to sailing against each other using the meetup people for crew. With 7 boats available and NOT charging anything for event, we were maxed out each week and consistently had a waiting list! One night we had 5 people per boat... that was too many!!!! There is also a great bar and restaurant, The Sunset Grille, right next to the docks and we go over there after racing. Also, there would be a second meetup posted for an "After Sailing Party" where people who couldn't get the docks by 5:30 could still come down to the docks, watch the boats come in at sunset and share some of the experience.

 

In 2012, SSC started to charge $20.00 per person, (of course SSC Club members were free), and we were still full almost every night and the club used that money to buy new sails and help maintain the fleet. The club members who couldn't even make their way around the course the first year were now like a well oiled machine and actually started taking over most of the organizing which allowed me to just focus on R/C duties. We also bought new race marks, huge hippity hops from and outfit in CA. I would always set a triangle course and throw in a W/L and I didn't keep score... This year, I think I will because I no longer need to tell them what the hell to do!

 

Over the fall, the skippers have gotten together and run races on Sundays. There is a real community where none existed before and over the past 2 seasons we have gotten about 80 NON sailors on the water... they all came through the meetup group which now has 1500 members. Several people have signed up for lessons and still several more have been "culled" to crew over at CPYC.

 

This is a very easy concept to duplicate. However, it will take a sailing school and/or club with vision to see the long term potential. AND Yes! It would be much better to have more modern boats... but, in Norwalk Harbor, with all the rocks, reefs and bars, the full keel ensign is ideal.... Now we just need more of them... 10 would be great!!!

 

Here is the link to one of the event from this past summer...

 

 

Great thread!

 

Sincerely,

 

John Porter

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I just wanted to add one thing...

 

Only the club members can drive the boats. This insured at least someone who knew the drill was at the helm the whole night and also was a little bit of a takeaway...

 

If you wanted to drive, then you would need to learn and the best way to do that would be to take a course...

 

As I said, so far a few "guests" have taken that step.

 

The real bottom line to me is the exposure the center and sailing in general has gotten from combining it with meetup...

 

My 2 Cents...

 

JP

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An excellent success story. To replicate it requires someone like JP and a group of people with varietal interests that can be made to feed each other. A good model and hopefully someone out there picks up on it. I noticed a lack of "mandatory" and "mentor" verbiage. Makes it much more palatable. Seems almost '70's hippie like, unlike the thread above which keeps giving me visions of goose stepping.

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... only those who live and breath for sailing will stick around. So we have to ask ourselves, who cares?

 

I agree with your really accurate description of what it means to be a sailor. However, I got an issue with the "who cares" attitude. If a smaller and smaller percentage of the population are sailors, or have been on a sailboat, there is going to be a smaller and smaller percentage of people in government, or community boards, or the PTA, or corporate boards who know anything about the sport. As that happens, there are going to be less advocates for building a new marina, or starting a community sailing program, or offering it as a phys ed class, or sponsoring something related to the sport.

 

I try to take out non-sailors almost every time I take the boat out. No one has bought a boat. Only a few of them ever got involved with the sport in any way. But hopefully all of them had a good time, and will remember that if they every need to make a decision involving sailing.

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An excellent success story. To replicate it requires someone like JP and a group of people with varietal interests that can be made to feed each other. A good model and hopefully someone out there picks up on it. I noticed a lack of "mandatory" and "mentor" verbiage. Makes it much more palatable. Seems almost '70's hippie like, unlike the thread above which keeps giving me visions of goose stepping.

 

Thanks DavidP...!!! Much appreciated!

 

I just saw an opportunity to link several things together... the sailing center, the club members, active outdoor enthusiasts and of course... a bar! The emphasis is definitely on fun, learning and most importantly, growing more sailors...! Meetup also played a critical role... I could not have managed it so well with out it! I also took thousands of pictures and posted them on the meetup site which really got people interested...

 

Next, it would be great to get some spectators out there in some way... If the tide is high I normally set the course right off the public beach so people could go to the beach and watch from shore... But, that can only be done at high tide...

 

Lastly, if anyone is interested in duplicating it PM me... I would be happy to help!

 

JP

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If your club has an opening day bash always remember to invite the local pollys. business leaders & the odd reporter/ newsreader :)

For probably the last 40 years, perhaps longer, ours has had "Mayor's Night." Since renamed "Elected Officials Night." Mayor of the city we are in, County Executive, all members of the city council, all members of the county board, appropriate state legislators, sherriff, police chief, departments heads, and a few other assorted folks. Elected officials from nearby suburban governments. Not all come of course but we always get 40 or so out for the evening. Food and adult beverages aplenty. People who wish to go for a boat ride go sailing or powerboat ride for an hour or two, then back to the club for some munchies, coffee, conversation, etc.

 

Don't know if it does any good, but it cannot hurt. Our club sits on land owned by the local city water utility. We've been there for close to a century. Never had much trouble renewing our lease for 20 years at a time. Sailing school, both kids and adults, is open to non-members and widely advertized. We do sailing events for Big Brothers, Big Sister's Adventures in Sailing, scouts and other community organizations.

 

Like I said, don't know if any of this does us any good, but it doesn't hurt either.

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Overcoming the cost of entry:

- 1yr grace period on club entry fees

- More emphasis on dinghy sailing to lower the cost of entry

- YC's dedicate funds towards acquiring and maintaining club one design dinghies/small daysailers, even older classes, to lower the cost of entry

- Mandatory mentoring programs in clubs in the same way that mandatory RC duty has been implemented in many clubs

 

Overcoming the continual whining that the rules are too complicated:

- YC's hold mandatory rules seminars and combine these with some for of game/simulation/quiz to make learning more interesting, engaging etc... and combine with a social event.

- Make completion of the rules seminars a prerequisite for anyone that wants to race in the club

- Promote rotation through an RC training program and reward time served on the RC

 

Make courses and events more interesting

- more varied courses and less emphasis on W/L sausage racing.

- add some multi class fun events using the simple Portsmouth Yardstick and inlude keel boats and dinghies in the same events

- include some fun point-to-point races even for dinghies and crusty old boats

- mandatory participation in fun events for all boats in the club... None of this sitting around rotting

 

Just a few ideas that stem from what used to make it fun

 

Some of those are good ideas.

 

But, anything which contains the word "mandatory" is a great way to turn off existing and potential members.

 

Mandatory rules clinics, in order to race? For sailors who are already reasonably current on the rules, the clinic would be a waste of time.

 

Mandatory participation in club events? Puhleese. People have to be able to set their own life priorities. What are you going to do if they don't show, fire them as members?

 

Mandatory mentoring? I've seen it tried in other contexts (at work) and it does not work. For a mentoring relationship to be useful the parties have to have a real connection - they have to like each other. People don't have time to mentor someone they don't feel a connection to.

Somehow the status quo has to change if there is dwindling interest and clubs end up renting their facilities for weddings and other events to make ends meet.

 

Mandatory rule clinics for newcomers to the sport. Isn't this about new blood in the sport? Too many get out there and don't understand the game, then complain the rules are too complicated. In addition, what's wrong with seasoned sailors taking refresher seminars? It's evident in the SA threads that we can all do with it.

 

Yes mandatory participation. It's evident that a lot of boats sit at club facilities consuming dry storage or slips and are hardly ever used. That causes a log jam for people that want to participate, frequently causing them to keep boats elsewhere. If members can't be bothered to be active and promote a more interesting club, they are part of the problem.

 

Yes mandatory mentoring. There isn't enough of it on a voluntary basis. You make the word mandatory sound like punishment. Anyone with an interest in their club and supporting the sport will be only too happy to do something, therefore mandatory is a non issue. Mandatory is aimed at those that are part of the problem of lack of participation. It can be as simple as : Every skipper will take a novice/cadet/junior whatever you want to call them, as crew on 2 races a quarter. Mandatory in this context shouldn't be a big deal. Many clubs do this for RC "volunteers" already with little objection.

 

I don't want to be in your club..

 

Sounds like time to start a competing club.

 

-jim lee

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Was working the Shake-A-Leg booth at Strictly Sail MIami this morning........the show is very sad....less boats than last year, same old stuff, nothing to write home about, and only 1 small tent of vendors. Even catalina and hunter have less boats there. At the same time, the powerboat show is overbooked and the brokage show (BIG powerboats and super yachts) is way bigger than last year. Looks that the only part of the industry shrinking is sailing sector..

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Only in America my boy. Only in America. So many steriods in the American culture, and thus so few or so tiny, balls. It takes balls to sail. Blame big Pharma. Soon the whole country will be gay going putt putt putt from behind.

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1. A sailing body that lobbies cities to appreciate and make new space available for Sailing Clubs. An organization that will unsure sailing space is given and increased in area's where it makes sense.

what would be better, would be if some of these uber rich sailors like ted turner, philipe kahn, larry ellison, tom perkins, etc, pool their cash and build and staff about 20 urban community sailing centers around the country-- it really wouldnt cost much, and would open up sailing to the new america ie- first generation americans, non-whites, poor kids-- places like detroit, mobile, jacksonville, charleston, oakland, etc. you'd need high performance dinghies (and slow old designs to learn on first) and lots of instructors, etc.

 

when kids graduate from the program, and turn 21-- if theyre employed full time or in school, theyd be elligible for a zero-interest loan to buy their own boat. the above billionaires could fund this with their pocket change!!

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kinda reminds me of Argentinians seeking alms from Eva Peron, or perhaps the always there desire of Americans to be ruled by Monarchs........you know, like Obama..........now there's a sailor for you...........also a skeet shooter........I recommend you look to self help and put away the begging cup. Read what JP said and get involved. I worry America is in a sulky power dive.

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The RCYC came up with a plan to destroy sailing. They propose to cut the initiation fee by 50% for those that don't have a boat to bring to the Club. Now for half price you can use the total facility which is basically an all year round country club. Try to bring in a boat and your initiation fee doubles. How is that for brilliant ! Half price people can now sit on your dock and have a picnic and laugh at you on your boat without any thought of thanking you for paying double so you can tie lines to a feeble dock structure. Would any of you people out there like to import this brain trust to your Club........even if just for a while? Come on. Be nice. Take them please!

 

lol watch me shed a single tear for all the idiots at rcyc paying more than my entire yearly disposable income in club fees. If you want sailing to grow lets make it less of an upper class white peoples club.

 

STOP!

 

Hold it right there! Why is it that Upper class white people have to share everything in the fucking world. First of all Sailing isn't broken. There are healthy aspects of every segment of the sport. Look at how many new designs were produced this past year alone. There is no shortage of equipment, sail makers, new tech, etc.

 

Just because the Nascar crowd is unaware of your sport is that a bad thing? Just because RCYC has a parking lot full of cars worth more than most boats at Ashbridge's bay are they doing something wrong? Both clubs seem to be surviving quite well.

 

 

Are you kidding? Given the 10,000% growth of Toronto since 1920, keeping a full parking lot full at RCYC is irrelevant. If a club isn't growing 5% a year, then it is shrinking. My second idea of multi level dinghy storage would probably be more relevant to your club than any. How many 10 to 25 yr olds do you train a year? 30? Maybe 100?.

 

There are 10's of thousands of well off people in Toronto that could be steered towards sailing. Thousands of youth that could be hooked on the sport.

 

As to your comments on the health of the sail makers, equipment and new designs; It is a facade and almost all of them are minutes away from going under.

 

10's of thousands extra people on the water south of TO.....That might be your Utopia but far from mine.

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Hey Rex II, just a head's up, but Lake Erie isn't salt water....yet. Good joke about a new multitude taking over south of TO. You are quite correct, but I am sure Postpast was just playing with hyperbole. The truth is that anyone I have seen exposed to sailing and the RCYC porch wants to get involved with both. Why it doesn't happen is " follow up " . When you want people to get involved with sailing you have to push them and nag them until being involved becomes a habit and a social necessity. I still say Racing in big boats on the lake is doomed due to many reasons, not the least of which is the juvenile house of commons ignorance of many of the participants. Hell even the rules guy at rcyc won't demand banishment of those that like their $20k 4knt sb to sideswipe the $400k cruiser racer of a guy trying out Racing. End of effort. Until there is a total focus on the rule about fair sailing and psychological testing or summary execution, Racing will keep dying except for kids or grown up kids in dinghys. Hell years ago I had an rcyc 8 meter luff my boat during an easter seal event where my deck was covered with crippled kids. I protested under fair sailing/ decency rule and got vacant stares. So, stories aside, very few dinghy converts will move up to big boats and keep racing. And if they do its just around the cans on W/L courses. Gets pretty boring real quick.

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There is an awful lot of "somebody else must pay for me to go sailing" in this thread.

 

Too much boat "provided free of charge when I was a kid".

 

 

Sorry. We'll ask the community sailing centers to start charging more then...

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Hey Rex II, just a head's up, but Lake Erie isn't salt water....yet. Good joke about a new multitude taking over south of TO. You are quite correct, but I am sure Postpast was just playing with hyperbole. The truth is that anyone I have seen exposed to sailing and the RCYC porch wants to get involved with both. Why it doesn't happen is " follow up " . When you want people to get involved with sailing you have to push them and nag them until being involved becomes a habit and a social necessity. I still say Racing in big boats on the lake is doomed due to many reasons, not the least of which is the juvenile house of commons ignorance of many of the participants. Hell even the rules guy at rcyc won't demand banishment of those that like their $20k 4knt sb to sideswipe the $400k cruiser racer of a guy trying out Racing. End of effort. Until there is a total focus on the rule about fair sailing and psychological testing or summary execution, Racing will keep dying except for kids or grown up kids in dinghys. Hell years ago I had an rcyc 8 meter luff my boat during an easter seal event where my deck was covered with crippled kids. I protested under fair sailing/ decency rule and got vacant stares. So, stories aside, very few dinghy converts will move up to big boats and keep racing. And if they do its just around the cans on W/L courses. Gets pretty boring real quick.

exactly why I used the word "mandatory" since some just don't get with the program. However, everyone here seems to associate "mandatory" as "goose stepping" or autocratic and depriving them of freedoms. I prefer to think of it as a set of goals. How they're implemented will either make it easy,practical and motivating, versus the RCYC autocratic, dictatorial method.

 

How about this: everyone who takes a novice sailing gets a smiley face and gold star to stick on their bow. Better? LOL

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Another step to death on the lakes for big boats........the Youngstown Levels are being cancelled after this year........that is a big fun event that can do wonders for getting people into Race Sailing........it can be taken not seriously and fun can be had......let the psychos go their way and have fun with everyone else.......a sad loss and a further step towards diminishment.......WHL I shall definitely follow your advice except for the gold star.....too close to goose stepping really.

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1. A sailing body that lobbies cities to appreciate and make new space available for Sailing Clubs. An organization that will unsure sailing space is given and increased in area's where it makes sense.

what would be better, would be if some of these uber rich sailors like ted turner, philipe kahn, larry ellison, tom perkins, etc, pool their cash and build and staff about 20 urban community sailing centers around the country-- it really wouldnt cost much, and would open up sailing to the new america ie- first generation americans, non-whites, poor kids-- places like detroit, mobile, jacksonville, charleston, oakland, etc. you'd need high performance dinghies (and slow old designs to learn on first) and lots of instructors, etc.

 

when kids graduate from the program, and turn 21-- if theyre employed full time or in school, theyd be elligible for a zero-interest loan to buy their own boat. the above billionaires could fund this with their pocket change!!

 

I learned how to sail, and race, by the Royal Canadian Sea Cadets. My first 20+ boat race start was before 13teen. My first 100+ boat race win was before 16teen.

 

The Royal Canadian Sea Cadets are still likely the largest sail training and racing clubs in the world. They have over 500 one design class boats that race each other regularly.

 

Why can't private clubs replicate this success. Or even come close?

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1. A sailing body that lobbies cities to appreciate and make new space available for Sailing Clubs. An organization that will unsure sailing space is given and increased in area's where it makes sense.

what would be better, would be if some of these uber rich sailors like ted turner, philipe kahn, larry ellison, tom perkins, etc, pool their cash and build and staff about 20 urban community sailing centers around the country-- it really wouldnt cost much, and would open up sailing to the new america ie- first generation americans, non-whites, poor kids-- places like detroit, mobile, jacksonville, charleston, oakland, etc. you'd need high performance dinghies (and slow old designs to learn on first) and lots of instructors, etc.

 

when kids graduate from the program, and turn 21-- if theyre employed full time or in school, theyd be elligible for a zero-interest loan to buy their own boat. the above billionaires could fund this with their pocket change!!

 

I learned how to sail, and race, by the Royal Canadian Sea Cadets. My first 20+ boat race start was before 13teen. My first 100+ boat race win was before 16teen.

 

The Royal Canadian Sea Cadets are still likely the largest sail training and racing clubs in the world. They have over 500 one design class boats that race each other regularly.

 

Why can't private clubs replicate this success. Or even come close?

 

Might have something to do with private clubs not being run & paid for by the government.

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So many good points in this thread but is sailing really 'broken'?

 

As someone who founded the first member's run sailing club in the country where I sail and who started sailing over 40 years ago I think I have a pretty good handle on SOME of the challenges of bringing in new people and holding onto existing sailors.

 

That first club is now 10 years old and still has challenges regarding day to day running and maintaining memebrship. Regarding day to day running it is very easy to say this club should do that or that club should do this! The reality is that so many people say that CLUB should do when what they mean is someone else should do.

 

VERY FEW PEOPLE STEP UP AS FLAG OFFICERS OR TO HELP IN OTHER WAYS! This is a problem in most clubs I have knowledge of or have been involved with. People see their membership fee like the membership of a gym or country club but sailing clubs cannot operate this way. People have to muck in and that is one of the major differences that I see from 1967 (when I started sailing) and 2013 - it is expected that someone else do the grunt work.

 

We have to realise that although sailing isn't just for the mega-rich (that would count me out right away) but it isn't for the poor either, we can NEVER target the whole population. I know this only too well as here in China there is that huge misconception that you have to be a millionaire to go sailing, one that is thankfully slowly being broken down but people still wnat a 40-50 footer rather than a 25-30 footer (don't we all)

 

Comments have been made about the baby boomers getting to old and no-one to replace them, well with any 'customer base' you always need to be looking for new prospects becasue there will always be wastage. Here in China the club started off completely comprising ex-pats most of whom are on 2-3 year contracts so a CONSTANT recruitment has had to be maintained to keep numbers up. This has been done through regular open days and even a free stand at the China (Shanghai) International Boat Show both avenues that have produced many members, most fittingly an increasing interest shown by the increasing numbers of Chinese members.

 

Much does depend on the active participation of the club leadership. The club here started with around 70 active members, grew to around 300 and then has fallen back with currently much fewer active members. Having said that the lake on which the club sails (76 sq kms) now has 5 or 6 boating clubs around its shores. Competition is good.

 

I also believe we should look to help and assistance at the other end of the spectrum. In our case ISAF. We need, as a consituency, to let our so called leaders know that the most important thing in sailing is the grass roots and not the Olympics.

 

Now while I think that ISAF is far from perfect, (a good example being the new president who was quoted as knowing nothing about the workings of ISAF around a year ago was preferred to a guy who was active on the ground at least as far back as the 2006 Olympic test event in Qingdao (Dave Kellet) and a couple of the current VP's are more politician than sailor) they are what we have and perhaps we should, through our NMA's, start to caviat ISAF getting involved in developing the sport they claim to govern.

 

Perhaps we also need ot realise that no matter what we try and do, sailing is unlikely to ever be a mainstream sport, what fascinates most of the sailors I know, the complexity, the never stopping learning, the variety, the challenges etc just don't suit many of the population who increasingly want to spend lives in front of computer screens, making "friends" on line instead of real world, playing virtual Volvo instead of getting in a car for 2 hours to visit a stopover (I spent 2 weeks at Sanya when the VOR was in town) but even that event attracted 270,000 visitors.

 

Anyway, such a big issue would love to talk about it all day but the lake is calling.

 

See ya on the water

 

Shanghai Sailor

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1. A sailing body that lobbies cities to appreciate and make new space available for Sailing Clubs. An organization that will unsure sailing space is given and increased in area's where it makes sense.

what would be better, would be if some of these uber rich sailors like ted turner, philipe kahn, larry ellison, tom perkins, etc, pool their cash and build and staff about 20 urban community sailing centers around the country-- it really wouldnt cost much, and would open up sailing to the new america ie- first generation americans, non-whites, poor kids-- places like detroit, mobile, jacksonville, charleston, oakland, etc. you'd need high performance dinghies (and slow old designs to learn on first) and lots of instructors, etc.

 

when kids graduate from the program, and turn 21-- if theyre employed full time or in school, theyd be elligible for a zero-interest loan to buy their own boat. the above billionaires could fund this with their pocket change!!

 

Also, it would be great if I had a unicorn tied up out back, and if Kate Upton was cooking my breakfast wearing nothing but an apron.

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That first club is now 10 years old and still has challenges regarding day to day running and maintaining memebrship. Regarding day to day running it is very easy to say this club should do that or that club should do this! The reality is that so many people say that CLUB should do when what they mean is someone else should do.

 

VERY FEW PEOPLE STEP UP AS FLAG OFFICERS OR TO HELP IN OTHER WAYS! This is a problem in most clubs I have knowledge of or have been involved with. People see their membership fee like the membership of a gym or country club but sailing clubs cannot operate this way. People have to muck in and that is one of the major differences that I see from 1967 (when I started sailing) and 2013 - it is expected that someone else do the grunt work.

 

+1. As a flag officer of my club who puts in hundreds of volunteer hours yearly, I do get a fair amount of feedback from members that the club should do this or that. My response is almost always "That's an excellent idea. Who do you think we should get to take charge of that project?" They rarely volunteer themselves.

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1. A sailing body that lobbies cities to appreciate and make new space available for Sailing Clubs. An organization that will unsure sailing space is given and increased in area's where it makes sense.

what would be better, would be if some of these uber rich sailors like ted turner, philipe kahn, larry ellison, tom perkins, etc, pool their cash and build and staff about 20 urban community sailing centers around the country-- it really wouldnt cost much, and would open up sailing to the new america ie- first generation americans, non-whites, poor kids-- places like detroit, mobile, jacksonville, charleston, oakland, etc. you'd need high performance dinghies (and slow old designs to learn on first) and lots of instructors, etc.

 

when kids graduate from the program, and turn 21-- if theyre employed full time or in school, theyd be elligible for a zero-interest loan to buy their own boat. the above billionaires could fund this with their pocket change!!

 

I learned how to sail, and race, by the Royal Canadian Sea Cadets. My first 20+ boat race start was before 13teen. My first 100+ boat race win was before 16teen.

 

The Royal Canadian Sea Cadets are still likely the largest sail training and racing clubs in the world. They have over 500 one design class boats that race each other regularly.

 

Why can't private clubs replicate this success. Or even come close?

and i bet you still wank off to that "100+ boat race win" score sheet

 

and to answer your question, its because most private clubs exist for 80 year old white men to get drunk, no more, no less

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That first club is now 10 years old and still has challenges regarding day to day running and maintaining memebrship. Regarding day to day running it is very easy to say this club should do that or that club should do this! The reality is that so many people say that CLUB should do when what they mean is someone else should do.

 

VERY FEW PEOPLE STEP UP AS FLAG OFFICERS OR TO HELP IN OTHER WAYS! This is a problem in most clubs I have knowledge of or have been involved with. People see their membership fee like the membership of a gym or country club but sailing clubs cannot operate this way. People have to muck in and that is one of the major differences that I see from 1967 (when I started sailing) and 2013 - it is expected that someone else do the grunt work.

 

+1. As a flag officer of my club who puts in hundreds of volunteer hours yearly, I do get a fair amount of feedback from members that the club should do this or that. My response is almost always "That's an excellent idea. Who do you think we should get to take charge of that project?" They rarely volunteer themselves.

I've been a member of my club for more than 30 years. For the first 15 or so after a guy served as commodore he went into witness protection. Never seen around the cub again. It was the "you should do, you should do." I was a a flag officer for several years and turned down the opportunity to become Commodore. Not only did you put in untold hours, when you went down for a drink or dinner or to work on your boat, there was quite typically someone who interrupted your conversation at the bar or your quiet dinner with your wife who just had to tell you something. Mercifully, the attitudes and behavior have changed and former commodores now actually do frequent the place.

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Yacht clubs are a whole other story. Many times, the people who seek out or aspire to become commodore, are the people have the least business running anything. While those who would do a bang up job, are often too busy with other obligations to do the job.

I remember back to when I was a member of The Corinthians Afterguard (flag officers and committee chairs), there was a string of people vying to be Master (commodore), a number of the more astute Past Masters and Afterguard members started referring to this lot as folks more interested in "getting a blue star on their burgee" and being a Past Master rather than being The Master. Their interest was not in the leading of the club, but the status of doing so or having done so.

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That first club is now 10 years old and still has challenges regarding day to day running and maintaining memebrship. Regarding day to day running it is very easy to say this club should do that or that club should do this! The reality is that so many people say that CLUB should do when what they mean is someone else should do.

 

VERY FEW PEOPLE STEP UP AS FLAG OFFICERS OR TO HELP IN OTHER WAYS! This is a problem in most clubs I have knowledge of or have been involved with. People see their membership fee like the membership of a gym or country club but sailing clubs cannot operate this way. People have to muck in and that is one of the major differences that I see from 1967 (when I started sailing) and 2013 - it is expected that someone else do the grunt work.

 

+1. As a flag officer of my club who puts in hundreds of volunteer hours yearly, I do get a fair amount of feedback from members that the club should do this or that. My response is almost always "That's an excellent idea. Who do you think we should get to take charge of that project?" They rarely volunteer themselves.

I've been a member of my club for more than 30 years. For the first 15 or so after a guy served as commodore he went into witness protection. Never seen around the cub again. It was the "you should do, you should do." I was a a flag officer for several years and turned down the opportunity to become Commodore. Not only did you put in untold hours, when you went down for a drink or dinner or to work on your boat, there was quite typically someone who interrupted your conversation at the bar or your quiet dinner with your wife who just had to tell you something. Mercifully, the attitudes and behavior have changed and former commodores now actually do frequent the place.

 

One club has a house rule that the Commodore, Vice Commodore, Rear Commodore, Secretary and Treasurer will be in room X from 7-9 on Tuesday nights. You are free to bring any concerns to them at that time. If you bring a concern at any other time you are fined $50. This allows the hard working volunteer the freedom to enjoy their club too.

 

Another growth are is, how does the public become engaged with sailing? Where is an entry point that is done on a mass marketing basis? Get the clubs, sailing schools and community sailing programs to sign up in mass for Summer Sailstice.

 

You don't have to create it, it's already created. They have templated press releases on their website. Your local event registers on their website as a location for the public to come to and the public goes there to find when & where. All the real job is to get people locally interested and willing to join in and take the public out for a sail. Then it is up to each person to sell the sailing lifestyle to the public on their sail.

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Who really gives a flying uckfay about the ' public '. Great hordes of unwashed moochers. To hell with this socialist feel good posturing about the ' public '. Total crap. Focus on your family and friends and business acquaintances. Actually achieve something by dealing with a group you can relate to and that know you. You will actually get results with this group. The ' public ' is an oozing mass of takers and non contributors glued to government largesse and freebies. Round them all up and send them to the Middle East to drain the sand huggers dry instead of us.

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Who really gives a flying uckfay about the ' public '. Great hordes of unwashed moochers. To hell with this socialist feel good posturing about the ' public '. Total crap. Focus on your family and friends and business acquaintances. Actually achieve something by dealing with a group you can relate to and that know you. You will actually get results with this group. The ' public ' is an oozing mass of takers and non contributors glued to government largesse and freebies. Round them all up and send them to the Middle East to drain the sand huggers dry instead of us.

 

Work the numbers. 50% of people get motion sickness. 25M people sailed in 1970. 2.5M people sailed in 2010. I met a guy 3 weeks ago who lived 3 miles away from the waterfront his whole life. He never even made it to the shore and never figured he would. It was through an acquaintence that he got a ride on a sailboat. He became hooked.

 

So the numbers tell you that a lot of people will wash out, will never get hooked. But many people will become hooked. The more we introduce, the more we get hooked.

 

Look at what reduced participation has done to manufacturing of boats, boat brokers, sailmakers, chandelries, clubs, and many, many regattas. I have seen many regattas disappear and others that are teetering on the brink of disaster.

 

So maybe we need a thread with a poll that asks:

1. Should sailing remain on the current course of declining participation?

2. Should sailing level off and remain at today's participation?

3. Should sailing grow massively back to the numbers of 1970? (and I have a side question, what is so bad with having 10X as many people sailing?)

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" It was through an acquaintance.........hooked " ......... QED........ " reduced participation....mfg of boats"......the problem here according to a boat builder friend was caused by many factors, but mostly by such as Farr and JBoats with the push for One Design Racing. The problem with One Design as it kills designers and builders in the 30 to 50 foot range. Mega builders are doing just fine and Mega Designers like Holland etc are also doing fine. It is the middle class that is dead and that is because of One Design types. Dinghy boys won't move up to clunky One Designs. We need designers back and an IOR type rule that was created for designers and creativity which will attract the little boys in dinghies. Hell it is the design/build aspect that is a joy. It is your creation you race, not some javex bottle sold as a One Design ie No Design. Just replication. And for God sake avoid a 10X multiple full of useless ' public '.

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#61 davidprobable

Anarchist

 

Members

 

898 posts

Location:upper canada

Interests:classic collectible sailing and restoring , confronting the silly.

Posted Yesterday, 12:53 PM

Another step to death on the lakes for big boats........the Youngstown Levels are being cancelled after this year........that is a big fun event that can do wonders for getting people into Race Sailing........it can be taken not seriously and fun can be had......let the psychos go their way and have fun with everyone else.......a sad loss and a further step towards diminishment.......WHL I shall definitely follow your advice except for the gold star.....too close to goose stepping really.

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The way I read the email i received from Don Finkle, this is in fact the last year for the Youngstown Level Regatta, the 40th such event.

BUT in 2014 there will be somthing bigger and better.

I believe their plans are to reveal the new format at the last Level event...I'm glad they are not packing it in...they do a shit load of work...all year round..

Kudos to Don and all his volunteers.

 

Jus

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ditto.............but still a loss and no hints as to what will replace it........if anything...........it was the type of non regimented gathering that brought new blood to the sport......what would cause such a loss? why shut it down?

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I wonder if they will get 400 plus boats for the final regatta. Would be cool if the did...personally I am not to worried about what the next format will be...it's a long trek for me by boat or trailer....but I would imagine it will be just as great, as the Levels pretty much always were.

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But what about keeping sailing / racing alive? You are a builder. Surely you hate one designs. They kill guys like you. Wouldn't you rather have a rule requiring design/build? You would have done well under IOR. The current world kills people like you.

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While this thread is interesting, does anyone wish to give an opinion on the idea's in the OP? ; A sailing lobby, Multi level clubs, Multi builder one design classes...

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Awwwwwwww, you killed a fun discussion. Nobody cares about multi anything. One designs never allow multi builders. What old cars do you have? What do you sail? What have you fixed, except this thread? Maybe a bit of disclosure by you might invigorate those currently napping.

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1. A sailing body that lobbies cities to appreciate and make new space available for Sailing Clubs. An organization that will unsure sailing space is given and increased in area's where it makes sense.

what would be better, would be if some of these uber rich sailors like ted turner, philipe kahn, larry ellison, tom perkins, etc, pool their cash and build and staff about 20 urban community sailing centers around the country-- it really wouldnt cost much, and would open up sailing to the new america ie- first generation americans, non-whites, poor kids-- places like detroit, mobile, jacksonville, charleston, oakland, etc. you'd need high performance dinghies (and slow old designs to learn on first) and lots of instructors, etc.

 

when kids graduate from the program, and turn 21-- if theyre employed full time or in school, theyd be elligible for a zero-interest loan to buy their own boat. the above billionaires could fund this with their pocket change!!

 

all that needs to happen is to flush the marina's of all the boats owned but never sailed. If you go to say, Santa Cruz yacht harbor, you are more likely to encounter Phillipe than 90% of the other owners (rough number pulled out of ass). Why? Because they don't actually sail. The boats sit there and don't move. So all of the graduates of UCSC sailing or whatever other dinghy program have no where to go. Because nobody actually sails. It's the same at plenty of other desirable marina's up and down the coast. Lots of boats, nobody sailing. Makes zero sense.

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Well you could up the rent every month by say.. $50 until the boat goes out the harbor and that resets the rent.

 

-jim lee

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Won't work JL. The only system that works is to charge dock rental based on barnacle accumulation. Doesn't work in fresh water sadly. There you have to rely on weed accumulation and zebra mussel colonies. Also, interestingly, most of the big boat racers were never dinghy freaks. The dinghy freak stays a dinghy freak and adds no revenue to marinas or yacht clubs. They add grunge and attitude and an incredible ability to mooch.

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I wonder if there's a way to turn this thread into action.....anarchy style?

 

 

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i think the rabid anarchists , the progenitors of hyperbole excess, have all gone away. Hell no one even craps on Clean anymore. Even he has nothing to say to give us a reason to crap on him. Basically Anarchy is morphing into Scuttlebutt II , How very nice. Bit of tea schoonerman? how about a biscuit?

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i think the rabid anarchists , the progenitors of hyperbole excess, have all gone away. Hell no one even craps on Clean anymore. Even he has nothing to say to give us a reason to crap on him. Basically Anarchy is morphing into Scuttlebutt II , How very nice. Bit of tea schoonerman? how about a biscuit?

 

Get some hot Canuck pussy in this thread and watch the traffic rise. You do remember the smell of sweet young pussy, or has your sense of smell gone too?

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