Sailbydate

Coolboats to admire

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22 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

"... light air performance as a cruising attribute is vastly underrated. I'd rather sail than motor any day.

Have often though this.  Seems like boats in the days before reliable motors used bowsprits and boomkins to spread as much sail as possible.  I am thinking about a way to increase light air capability on my F31R (mast head cable less jib top) for exactly this reason.   If I could put a mizzen on, I would.   I thought about lengthening the mast,  but chickened out.   I am going to increase the size of the mainsail head tho.

sorry, drifted there for a minute.

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White Cap

2017 Morton Johnson replica. Probably designed by Charles Mower 

A9E8C8E6-EFDF-4F57-A962-D57120F8CEDE.jpeg

F22CAB99-ACCE-4C2D-9A5C-46561A54233D.jpeg

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On 5/8/2018 at 6:54 AM, boatmik said:

Bull City ... there is quite a lot of interest in your painting among the Goat Island Skiff group on Facebook.

Deserved, it is a ripper painting - Clint's Yawl and Paul's Cat rigged boats at the Small Reach Regatta.

Can you contact me by email (see storerboatplans.com) or PM. A couple of people want your details to ask about the painting. If you wish.

Best
Michael Storer

One of the same boats in another year ... same event.
 

 

Stray goat followed me home.

TRsGoatIslandSkiff.jpg

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The builder found me through the Goat Island Skiff Facebook group so now I have build photos and a back story.

She's named Julie B after his deceased wife but I like the name Stray Goat.

On stands under my office at the moment waiting for me to deal with some of the effects of being left in the weather for months. That trailer didn't quite fit and I didn't feel like adjusting it and then putting it back so instead I have a broken keel strip to fix. Which will take longer than adjusting the trailer would have.

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2 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

The builder found me through the Goat Island Skiff Facebook group so now I have build photos and a back story.

She's named Julie B after his deceased wife but I like the name Stray Goat.

On stands under my office at the moment waiting for me to deal with some of the effects of being left in the weather for months. That trailer didn't quite fit and I didn't feel like adjusting it and then putting it back so instead I have a broken keel strip to fix. Which will take longer than adjusting the trailer would have.

A new boat Tom?? Congratulations!  Those are really neat little boats. You should have a painting of one. Start a thread.

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2 hours ago, Bull City said:

A new boat Tom?? Congratulations!  Those are really neat little boats. You should have a painting of one. Start a thread.

I saw your painting of the two GIS's in this thread. Very nice!

I first became aware of them years ago when a guy on the Trailer Sailors forum built one. Always thought it would  be cool to have one. Now I do!

I have some projects on other boats to wrap up so it's just going to sit there for a few weeks but I'll talk about it more when I get a round tuit.

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51 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I saw your painting of the two GIS's in this thread. Very nice!

I first became aware of them years ago when a guy on the Trailer Sailors forum built one. Always thought it would  be cool to have one. Now I do!

I have some projects on other boats to wrap up so it's just going to sit there for a few weeks but I'll talk about it more when I get a round tuit.

Excellent.

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I sent him this to get him going

459BDE0A-15D3-4F17-B7C5-21B8B35995C3.jpeg

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19 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

I sent him this to get him going

@Sail4beer, I am very glad to see that you sent a proper wooden round tuit.

Plastic round tuits are cheaper, but much less effective

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This one is ceramic and is strictly a presentation item.

 

033.JPG

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You're all very helpful but my grandson is coming so I'm working on the fishing boat. New nonskid on the deck and a couple of new rodholders.

Being on stands under my office, the Stray Goat could not be more in the way of everything. That problem will be addressed soon but a fishing boat with a smooth deck is a higher priority.

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Oh yeah, your other Craigslist stray that followed you home.-

have fun fishing!

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19 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

You're all very helpful but my grandson is coming so I'm working on the fishing boat. New nonskid on the deck and a couple of new rodholders.

Being on stands under my office, the Stray Goat could not be more in the way of everything. That problem will be addressed soon but a fishing boat with a smooth deck is a higher priority.

Take your grandson sailing!

FB- Doug

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Take your grandson sailing!

FB- Doug

He's too big to stick in the well of the Adventure Island any more.

I may put the little dink I got him for Christmas in the water but the truth is the boy just wants to fish. And he has the attention span of a gnat, so he immediately wants to fish elsewhere. But he never stops wanting to fish.

He also wants to follow me around and do whatever I'm doing, so he will end up sailing. And paddling. And, if I learn, rowing.

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1 hour ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

He's too big to stick in the well of the Adventure Island any more.

I may put the little dink I got him for Christmas in the water but the truth is the boy just wants to fish. And he has the attention span of a gnat, so he immediately wants to fish elsewhere. But he never stops wanting to fish.

He also wants to follow me around and do whatever I'm doing, so he will end up sailing. And paddling. And, if I learn, rowing.

Shucks, rowing is easy. I can do it with one hand...........

Anything involving boats is going to be good for him. The Goat Island would be a good kids boat IMHO because it's open. Harder to fall out of, easier to see the "guts" and understand it.

The G.I.S. seems like a really nice boat anyway, wish I had one.

FB- Doug

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18 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

This cruised by my house down the Bayou last weekend.

attachment.php?attachmentid=1080166&stc=1&d=1532210970

That's cool if there's a way to drive the bus off. Otherwise they should have done like every other redneck and just put a little camper on there, leaving off the engine and drive train.

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I knew you would like that Tom. He is headed your way! 

Hi,

This is my first post, but I've been helped innumerable times by searching the archived wisdom on this forum. 

I built a homemade multi-hull houseboat of sorts out of steel and three 36" plastic foam filled pontoons. She's about 8,000lbs dry with a total buoyancy of about 21,000 pounds, 10ft beam, and 25ft long. It has 2 yamaha F115 outboards. The boat works well and I've logged thousands of miles on her, but it's not real fast. My most efficient speed is about 6mph, top speed about 10mph. I can hold 155 gallons of fuel and get about 3mpg if I only use one engine at a time, so maybe 450 miles total. I have driven the boat down the mississippi river twice, including a very bumpy section between baton rouge and new orleans. It smashes the top of the waves from the barges a bit, but barely budges over the usual wakeboard wakes I see. For what it's worth, I think it's a lot more stable and durable than a typical houseboat that I've rented before.

Anyway, my question for the group is about taking my boat from new orleans to key west. I think the route would take me into the open ocean for at least a hundred miles or so. I'd wait for a nice stretch of calm weather. Any advice from people who know that area? Below is a picture of my vessel so you can see what I am talking about.

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2 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

I knew you would like that Tom. He is headed your way! 

Hi,

This is my first post, but I've been helped innumerable times by searching the archived wisdom on this forum. 

I built a homemade multi-hull houseboat of sorts out of steel and three 36" plastic foam filled pontoons. She's about 8,000lbs dry with a total buoyancy of about 21,000 pounds, 10ft beam, and 25ft long. It has 2 yamaha F115 outboards. The boat works well and I've logged thousands of miles on her, but it's not real fast. My most efficient speed is about 6mph, top speed about 10mph. I can hold 155 gallons of fuel and get about 3mpg if I only use one engine at a time, so maybe 450 miles total. I have driven the boat down the mississippi river twice, including a very bumpy section between baton rouge and new orleans. It smashes the top of the waves from the barges a bit, but barely budges over the usual wakeboard wakes I see. For what it's worth, I think it's a lot more stable and durable than a typical houseboat that I've rented before.

Anyway, my question for the group is about taking my boat from new orleans to key west. I think the route would take me into the open ocean for at least a hundred miles or so. I'd wait for a nice stretch of calm weather. Any advice from people who know that area? Below is a picture of my vessel so you can see what I am talking about.

My reaction to this is that the boat only really needs one of those engines. As for the proposed voyage, that's going to be one salt encrusted VW but I doubt it draws much so he can find places to hide even in the Big Bend area. People have done crazier things. An acquaintance fishes his 20' pontoon boat 30-40 miles in the Gulf. That's crazier. It's not one of the new, fast ones that can run away from weather. It's slower than most weather.

The other one you posted is the full on redneck floating castle arrangement. Well done.

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11 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Shucks, rowing is easy. I can do it with one hand...........

Anything involving boats is going to be good for him. The Goat Island would be a good kids boat IMHO because it's open. Harder to fall out of, easier to see the "guts" and understand it.

The G.I.S. seems like a really nice boat anyway, wish I had one.

FB- Doug

You could always buy this one from me. The rest of the story is that the Sailing Center guys didn't want to charge me money for a slightly broken wooden boat that they couldn't sell and told me to just take it as compensation for letting them store all kinds of stuff out here. I'll take playing with it for a while as compensation but when someone likes it and wants to buy it I'll sell it and donate the money to the Center as the owner originally intended.

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This is my 1960 Rhodes Ranger docked in Southport NC last winter. Was making my way south, nice full moon evening.

Katinka in Moonlight.jpg

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5 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

I knew you would like that Tom. He is headed your way! 

Hi,

This is my first post, but I've been helped innumerable times by searching the archived wisdom on this forum. 

I built a homemade multi-hull houseboat of sorts out of steel and three 36" plastic foam filled pontoons. She's about 8,000lbs dry with a total buoyancy of about 21,000 pounds, 10ft beam, and 25ft long. It has 2 yamaha F115 outboards. The boat works well and I've logged thousands of miles on her, but it's not real fast. My most efficient speed is about 6mph, top speed about 10mph. I can hold 155 gallons of fuel and get about 3mpg if I only use one engine at a time, so maybe 450 miles total. I have driven the boat down the mississippi river twice, including a very bumpy section between baton rouge and new orleans. It smashes the top of the waves from the barges a bit, but barely budges over the usual wakeboard wakes I see. For what it's worth, I think it's a lot more stable and durable than a typical houseboat that I've rented before.

Anyway, my question for the group is about taking my boat from new orleans to key west. I think the route would take me into the open ocean for at least a hundred miles or so. I'd wait for a nice stretch of calm weather. Any advice from people who know that area? Below is a picture of my vessel so you can see what I am talking about.

If you can do the Mississippi, you can do the Gulf. Some of it is exposed inland waters like Mobile Bay, but most of it is lagoons and rivers and inland waterway. The "Big Bend"  from Carabelle around to Cedar Key or Tarpon is over 100 miles of open water, that's the toughie. Mind weather and crab pots, you'll be fine.

Mostly a beautiful relaxing trip.

FB- Doug

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7 hours ago, motobasturd said:

This is my 1960 Rhodes Ranger docked in Southport NC last winter. Was making my way south, nice full moon evening.

Katinka in Moonlight.jpg

I guess we don't welcome newbs in an extremely rude way any more?

OK. I admire the neatly flaked main and the weird exposure effects in the image.

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19 hours ago, motobasturd said:

This is my 1960 Rhodes Ranger docked in Southport NC last winter. Was making my way south, nice full moon evening.

Katinka in Moonlight.jpg

Rhodes's boats. Really noice, Moto. She looks well kept.

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On 7/27/2018 at 5:45 PM, Rasputin22 said:

This cruised by my house down the Bayou last weekend.

attachment.php?attachmentid=1080166&stc=1&d=1532210970

I would admire it even more if the vw engine propelled the boat as well

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I've had fantasies of doing just that. Like a dynamometer rig that the rear wheels sit within. Just fire up the Dub and put it is gear and turn a paddlewheel or something like that.

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So is that a doghouse on the stern? Which is of course an unusual spot for the doghouse but then everything about this boat is unusual. 

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56 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

I've had fantasies of doing just that. Like a dynamometer rig that the rear wheels sit within. Just fire up the Dub and put it is gear and turn a paddlewheel or something like that.

A sterndrive. More efficient, can be tilted, and all of them already run on car engines anyway.

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How about a Kitchener rudder to be unique?

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4 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

I've had fantasies of doing just that. Like a dynamometer rig that the rear wheels sit within. Just fire up the Dub and put it is gear and turn a paddlewheel or something like that.

Use an automotive open differential. Chain drives from the hubs to side-mounted paddle wheels. R&L levers in the wheelhouse to control brakes...slowing/stopping one wheel to help with low-speed manuvering when a shallow rudder wouldn't be effective. 

Since the thrust is on the paddle wheel axles, a regular transmission can be used between the motor and the differential. Either manual or automatic. Automatic would need a heat exchanger. All could be done with running gear from an old 6 cyl truck.

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Why would you use a peg leg diff?

Seems to me you'd want a posi diff. A locker would be even better.

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9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Why would you use a peg leg diff?

Seems to me you'd want a posi diff. A locker would be even better.

Peg leg so you can stop one paddle wheel with brake and the other will still freely turn. Unable to do that with posi, locker, or spool...their purpose is to resist or prevent one wheel turning and the other not.

The advantage of turning one paddle wheel is to aid low speed maneuverability. Paddle wheels are ideal for shallow water, but a shallow draft means a less effective rudder. Of course thrusters could be used, or twin engines, but I was just outlining a junkyard solution. 

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No rudder rutter?

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2 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

No rudder rutter?

A side-wheeler typically has a single shallow rudder at stern. Fine at hull speed, I would think somewhat inefficient at low speed. Plus it's not positioned in prop-wash. 

Note: I don't have any experience with paddle wheelers, just thinking the design problem through my head.

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Are you getting a vagabond urge or something, Rasputin? Because I have an old POS pontoon boat I want to get rid of...

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5 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Don't tempt me Tom. That last platform looked pretty good with the old lapstrake Airstream on it. 

Well, OK, but it's got a decent trailer and I'm probably going to put it on craigslist today. And there's an old Airstream in my yard.

But this thread should probably get back to something of interest to those who are not FL rednecks...

Like this, which I know will appeal to Steam Flyer, who was trying to create something similar. Skate, available from Small Craft Advisor and Duckworks.

37966022_10155943086840000_4262587696469

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6 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Well, OK, but it's got a decent trailer and I'm probably going to put it on craigslist today. And there's an old Airstream in my yard.

But this thread should probably get back to something of interest to those who are not FL rednecks...

Like this, which I know will appeal to Steam Flyer, who was trying to create something similar. Skate, available from Small Craft Advisor and Duckworks.

37966022_10155943086840000_4262587696469

Do you know what  the little double ender with the bow sprit is?

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Norwegian apparently. <hiding>

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On 7/29/2018 at 11:38 PM, Rasputin22 said:

Don't tempt me Tom. That last platform looked pretty good with the old lapstrake Airstream on it. 

I thought it was painted fabric over a wood frame.

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On 7/29/2018 at 10:52 AM, RKoch said:

A side-wheeler typically has a single shallow rudder at stern. Fine at hull speed, I would think somewhat inefficient at low speed. Plus it's not positioned in prop-wash. 

Note: I don't have any experience with paddle wheelers, just thinking the design problem through my head.

Depends on which species of side wheeler.

The Big coastal boats, yes. And they often had a single drive shaft (Google "walking beam" engines) so no astern / fwd maneuvering.

The shallow draft river side wheelers were open season, pretty much any/every combination was tried. The "modern" ones (> 1860 or so) some had multiple stern rudder, rudders in the wheel stream, split wheels, wheels that were adjustable vertically for draft and "dip"....... it was the Wild West.

I have a book about Yukon River steamboat that get into all kinds of craziness, like taking one of these floating fire pits to sea.

FB- Doug

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Depends on which species of side wheeler.

The Big coastal boats, yes. And they often had a single drive shaft (Google "walking beam" engines) so no astern / fwd maneuvering.

The shallow draft river side wheelers were open season, pretty much any/every combination was tried. The "modern" ones (> 1860 or so) some had multiple stern rudder, rudders in the wheel stream, split wheels, wheels that were adjustable vertically for draft and "dip"....... it was the Wild West.

I have a book about Yukon River steamboat that get into all kinds of craziness, like taking one of these floating fire pits to sea.

FB- Doug

Also, the stern wheelers had multiple, low profile rudders, both in front and behind the wheel.   They had steering in both forward and reverse.   The terminology originally was that the flanking rudders were aft and the monkey rudders in front of the wheel, but in modern day, has switched to monkeys aft and flanking forward.

I have ready lots of stories about gold rush steamboats.   What was the name of the book, Steam?   Some of would ride the smaller ones to Skagway, break the steamer down to pieces and hump them up over the Whitehorse pass to the upper Yukon river, where they would reassemble them and ride them to Dawson.   A couple of sunken ones have been re-discovered and surveys have been taken of them.

- Stumbling

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Depends on which species of side wheeler.

The Big coastal boats, yes. And they often had a single drive shaft (Google "walking beam" engines) so no astern / fwd maneuvering.

The shallow draft river side wheelers were open season, pretty much any/every combination was tried. The "modern" ones (> 1860 or so) some had multiple stern rudder, rudders in the wheel stream, split wheels, wheels that were adjustable vertically for draft and "dip"....... it was the Wild West.

I have a book about Yukon River steamboat that get into all kinds of craziness, like taking one of these floating fire pits to sea.

FB- Doug

My idea was limited to brainstorming a home built paddle wheeler using 'junkyard parts', not to replicate a steam powered one. Several issues: 1) A solid axle connecting the paddle wheels would go right through the middle of the cabin. Not acceptable for accommodations or even moving about. Plus, the weight would be pretty high above WL. 2) Stepping down the RPMs from a 3000rpm engine speed to 30rpm paddle speed would likely require an intermediate step down gearing. 3) A solid axle limits the engine location. 4) A side load is placed on the transmission output shaft by the drive chain. 

A truck rear end solves those problems. Weight is low in the hull, and size will fit under floorboards. Gives you an approx 3.5:1 intermediate step down. The axle bearings are designed to handle a side load....much more than chain drives would impart. No side load on transmission output shaft. Via a driveshaft from transmission to rear end, much greater flexibility in engine location...such as under a raised floor in pilothouse forward. Only intrusion on interior is a cabinet each side to contain chain drives. 

Being a home built, multiple rudders, multiple engines, or a bow thruster are eliminated due to cost and complexity. Using the brakes on the rear end seems feasible and simple for helping maneuverability at low speeds. Just place a long lever either side of steering wheel, each actuating a master cylinder connected by hydraulic line to the corresponding brake. While you couldn't put one wheel ahead and the other astern, just slowing or stopping one wheel would help. The brakes wouldn't be used long enough to make overheating a problem. 

For the cost of an old rusty pickup truck, you'd have all your mechanical parts except the paddle wheels and supports, and the chain drives. That wouldn't be too difficult to fabricate.  LOA  30-40, fairly narrow hull-about 8'. Deck would cantilever over topsides (wings!) to meet paddle wheel boxes...maybe 12' max beam?  Easy to build sharpie type hull. 6 cyl pickup motor not going to have duty-cycle for extended high-rpm use, but should have plenty of power to cruise at modest rpm. Cruising speed about 6 knots, about 3 gal/hour? It would be pretty fun on Southeastern Rivers and ICW.

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Yeah but this hijack started when I wanted to drive the VW off the boat. So it has to be functional as a road vehicle/camper.

 

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On 7/31/2018 at 9:48 PM, LeoV said:

Very nice.

Reminds me of Stefan Züsts Lake Constance Pilot Cutter project

BSPC_Zuest-184-1600x2400.jpg

LCPC-Tech1.jpg

btw: would anybody know how this forward raked freestanding rudder behaves?

I imagine it to feel quite unbalanced? Or is it rather neutral, as long as its not too much raked forward with respect to its pivot axis?

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1 minute ago, Matagi said:

btw: would anybody know how this forward raked freestanding rudder behaves?

I imagine it to feel quite unbalanced? Or is it rather neutral, as long as its not too much raked forward with respect to its pivot axis? 

I have zero expertise ... but I always assumed that balance relates to the distribution of blade area around the pivot axis, rather than the orientation of the pivot axis

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That rudder, its al about getting the centres of balance right, if calculated right you get the feeling you want.
Little boat I posted, made out of aluminium...

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

Little boat I posted, made out of aluminium...

Interesting material choice not really seen in little, open sailboats. I wonder why?

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Just for maintenance, but you can order out of wood, the builder is a pro.


 

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11 hours ago, Matagi said:

Very nice.

Reminds me of Stefan Züsts Lake Constance Pilot Cutter project

BSPC_Zuest-184-1600x2400.jpg

LCPC-Tech1.jpg

btw: would anybody know how this forward raked freestanding rudder behaves?

I imagine it to feel quite unbalanced? Or is it rather neutral, as long as its not too much raked forward with respect to its pivot axis?

That is a real stealth ship!

Probably not too bad.   The only issue is that it will be a grass catcher.  There is not all that much blade area forward of the pintles to really lighten up the load on the helm, given that most of the sweep forward is from the transom shear and not the blade forward of the pivot point.

There was a Nightwind 35, Glass Frog, with a daggerboard style outboard rudder, being that both the keel and rudder could be raised for shallow water.    The boat had a tiller, and was a bear to steer in heavier winds.   OH designed and built a new rudder case so that the daggerboard blade was swept forward of the pintles.   When the board was all the way down, the tiller load was very light.  The steering load could be adjusted by how far down the blade was lowered.

This is line drawings of the original design with wheel steering.   Only the bottom of the rudder was retractable.  OH deleted the deep rudder casing and it was only the adjustable blade left to move up and down:

imagehelper.asp?file_id=11290

 

- Stumbling

 

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Nightwind 35 is a Bruce Kirby design. Used to be 2 in the area. Nice boats, pretty fast C/R of the era. Glass Frog cleaned up at KWRW a couple times...pissed some people off. Real sleeper.

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On 8/1/2018 at 1:35 PM, stumblingthunder said:

Also, the stern wheelers had multiple, low profile rudders, both in front and behind the wheel.   They had steering in both forward and reverse.   The terminology originally was that the flanking rudders were aft and the monkey rudders in front of the wheel, but in modern day, has switched to monkeys aft and flanking forward.

I have ready lots of stories about gold rush steamboats.   What was the name of the book, Steam?   Some of would ride the smaller ones to Skagway, break the steamer down to pieces and hump them up over the Whitehorse pass to the upper Yukon river, where they would reassemble them and ride them to Dawson.   A couple of sunken ones have been re-discovered and surveys have been taken of them.

- Stumbling

I've had a bunch of steamboating books over the years including a thick one printed for Yarrow in the 19-oughts, not just boilers (and auxiliary boilers which are an even more curious breed) but all kinds of then-current steam equipment. The section on turbines was very short & basic IIRC. That book went on "permanent loan" to the Philly naval library.

I'll hunt for the Yukon steamer book, I bought it at some Alaska tourist trap on the strength of the photos. There were a few narrows/rapids where they put a huge permanent anchor upstream, let a steel cable drift down from it, then the steamer picked it up and used a big winch to get upstream. The story I remember best was one about a guy who bought a derelict Columbia River steamboat, fixed it up a bit, then took it up to the Yukon thru some horrible weather. And of course the Yukon delta is not really navigable either.

FB- Doug

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8 hours ago, LarryE said:

There is Nighywind 35 in Melbourne. Does good in local races.

One of the boats I have lusted after for years.

FB- Doug

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Here is an interesting boat we saw while traveling (by land) this summer.

DSCN8700_tinnie.jpg.3874ccb7def8d3dcd41439fae4811739.jpg

This was in the far north where people think 70F is a blazing hot day. That pilothouse looks more like it's designed to keep the occupants dry & warm than to keep the sun off.

DSCN8701_tinnie.jpg.1fd487cf330cee52989cd4b2ff92ec04.jpg

Very cute boat, a little bit flat-bottom for my personal taste if going out in potentially choppy conditions. Mrs Steam noted that the top was more V'd than the hull, and wondered if it was made from another boat that had perhaps suffered an accident..........

FB- Doug

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On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 3:08 AM, Matagi said:

 

LCPC-Tech1.jpg

Above the waterline, she is beautiful.  Below the waterline, she is the perfect design for snagging crab pots.

 

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On 8/2/2018 at 11:47 PM, RKoch said:

Nightwind 35 is a Bruce Kirby design. Used to be 2 in the area. Nice boats, pretty fast C/R of the era. Glass Frog cleaned up at KWRW a couple times...pissed some people off. Real sleeper.

Also helped make the name for Stealth/Nuclear sails.

- Stumbling

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How do people feel about the cabin top on Siska?

50'6" x 8'6" -- 40 square meter Knud Reimers design.

Siska-arriving-Albany-1969.jpg

Swede-55-Vorläufer-Siska.jpg

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That's unusual and definitely very cool boat.  I like the narrow beam and yawl rig. I assume the doghouse atop the cabin house is to get some semblance of headroom. Very little volume within the hull. I lust for that boat. 

The short LP masthead Genoa is more efficient than the typical square meter frac rig with extremely long LP. I haven't sailed one, but it can't be fast and def would be a pain to tack. Keeping the headstay tight will put a big compression load on mast and bending strain on shallow and skinny hull. The main is also a good bit longer on foot than a typical square meter main. I like that too, as long as the boom doesn't drag in the water excessively when reaching/running. Doesn't appear it would. Not a boat for ocean crossing, but I'd love it for coastal cruising.

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5 hours ago, MFH125 said:

How do people feel about the cabin top on Siska?

50'6" x 8'6" -- 40 square meter Knud Reimers design.

Siska-arriving-Albany-1969.jpg

Swede-55-Vorläufer-Siska.jpg

Love the miter cut sails! And look at the stern wave, right at the transom and not cresting, just a smooth hump in the water.

It's a beautiful boat even with the doghouse added to the cabin trunk. Yes it'd be prettier without it, but a grown up sized person probably could not get down the companionway

FB- Doug

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Beautiful hull but that deck makes it look like an ancestor of the MacGregor 65.

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I think I would have preferred to have the doghouse styled as a bump up rather than looking like an add-on. More like this Rhodes 41, but in the wooden boat aesthetic, of course.

 

2018-08-04_1325.png

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6 hours ago, RKoch said:

The short LP masthead Genoa is more efficient than the typical square meter frac rig with extremely long LP. I haven't sailed one, but it can't be fast and def would be a pain to tack. Keeping the headstay tight will put a big compression load on mast and bending strain on shallow and skinny hull. The main is also a good bit longer on foot than a typical square meter main.

Not a square meter (SK xx)  rig, this one is lower, somewhat compensated with the headstay moved forward - maybe the mast has been capped just where the forestay normally is connected to the mast.  Mizzen is probably a compensation for lost efficient sail area as well.

The square meters had a fixed sail area, as eg 40 sqm. Some restriction on waterline but then the LOA was rather free - which explains why the forestay was not far forward - forward deck was also rather limited to put it mildly, impossible to work far forward.

 

Must say I agree - Siska looks nice also with this rig. Reimers knew how to draw nice boats!

 

//J

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1 hour ago, SemiSalt said:

I think I would have preferred to have the doghouse styled as a bump up rather than looking like an add-on. More like this Rhodes 41, but in the wooden boat aesthetic, of course.

 

2018-08-04_1325.png

I agree. It may be possible that Siska's doghouse actually IS an add-on? Perhaps someone will chime in with the history...

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18 minutes ago, RKoch said:

I agree. It may be possible that Siska's doghouse actually IS an add-on? Perhaps someone will chime in with the history...

Hmmm, top result on Google. Australian yacht, refitted for offshore racing by Rolly Tasker, who won everything. Boat still exists, currently located Japan.

http://www.asqma.com/yacht profiles/Siska.html

I have a hunch that Rolly Tasker added the doghouse. 

Knud Reimers reported modeled his Swede 55 design after Siska. 

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To be fair, here another Rhodes design with a house (or hard dodger?)  that's more like the Reimers design. Striking difference in chunkiness.

 

 

2018-08-04_2103.png

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It's unconventional, but I kind of like the raised doghouse.  I think she might look a little... I don't know... plain without it.  I particularly like the way that stripe of white cabin top looks running along the doghouse when she's heeled over.

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22 hours ago, RKoch said:

Knud Reimers reported modeled his Swede 55 design after Siska.  

No, he did not. Have a look on the two boats and you will see the difference.  OMG, 40 and an oversized 55 sqm said to be similar ...

The Siska doghouse is quite typical of Reimers. May be an afterthought, still typical Reimers.

//J

 

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1 hour ago, Jaramaz said:

No, he did not. Have a look on the two boats and you will see the difference.  OMG, 40 and an oversized 55 sqm said to be similar ...

The Siska doghouse is quite typical of Reimers. May be an afterthought, still typical Reimers.

//J

 

"She was inspired by Rolly Taskers “Siska”, a Knud Reimers 40 square meter boat modified for the Sydney-Hobart Race."

https://m.sailboatlistings.com/view/57079

Swede 55 is 53'. Siska is 50.5' after having a few feet taken off the stern...see pics of reverse transom. Also, Rolly Tasker modified the keel and added a separate rudder. While Swede 55 isn't an exact copy, it certainly was drawn as an updated version of Siska in mind. 

 

image.gif

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On 8/5/2018 at 9:42 PM, RKoch said:

"She was inspired by Rolly Taskers “Siska”, a Knud Reimers 40 square meter boat modified for the Sydney-Hobart Race."

https://m.sailboatlistings.com/view/57079

Swede 55 is 53'. Siska is 50.5' after having a few feet taken off the stern...see pics of reverse transom. Also, Rolly Tasker modified the keel and added a separate rudder. While Swede 55 isn't an exact copy, it certainly was drawn as an updated version of Siska in mind.  

There are a number of sites claiming this inspiration, which I doubt for more than one reason:

1. Siska was designed in 1939, Swede 55 in 1975. In the years between much happened, when it comes to sailing boats it was new materials became available (dacron, grp, alu), new racing rules, new design ideas.

2. In 1972 designed the S30 which then was built by Fisksätra. Swede 55 is very much of an upscale of the S30. Without any doubt ... the success of the S30 inspired the Swede 55.

3. Swede 55 was asked for (ordered) by a small consortium in Stockholm, lead by a strong willed person. They most likely set down the requirements. Doubt these guys were inspired by Siska as there are many other Skerry cruisers to look at in the Stockholm area. At that time there was a naive belief that a long and narrow boat could do better at races then the RORC boats - sure, but rating killed it of course.

4. S-O Ridder is said to have helped out in the project (with the under body, no less). Ridder is wellknown for his interest in Skerrycruisers, he had more than one of the old ones himself - and made some rather drastic changes on those.

(and so on .... )

Are you refering to the fact that Rolly Tasker made a separate rudder on Siska and that should have inspired Reimers on Swede 55? No, not at all. Separate rudders were introduced in the early 1900-ies. Below is a photo from a book coverage, the boat drawing at top is from 1898. Separate rudders were introduced on almost every boat in the 1960ies (10 years ahead of Swede 55 design), myself I remember the first Swan, 36' by S&S, which started to be produced in the 1960-ies. There was a heated debate on pro and cons, nobody who were sailing then could miss that.

Finally, "inspired" we can all be from many different things. It is of course impossible to rule out that Reimers wasn't inspired by this or that. As we know, even statements by those involved are often invented afterwards (who hasn't said something ... more or less just out of thin air). So maybe we should just give this a rest now, I am happy to agree that Reimers knew Siska very well :)

//J

 

 

book.thumb.jpg.eb087df6ebc8572fda897d610317838a.jpg

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17 hours ago, Jaramaz said:

Are you refering to the fact that Rolly Tasker made a separate rudder on Siska and that should have inspired Reimers on Swede 55? No, not at all. Separate rudders were introduced in the early 1900-ies. Below is a photo from a book coverage, the boat drawing at top is from 1898. Separate rudders were introduced on almost every boat in the 1960ies (10 years ahead of Swede 55 design), myself I remember the first Swan, 36' by S&S, which started to be produced in the 1960-ies. There was a heated debate on pro and cons, nobody who were sailing then could miss that. 

The Swede 55 was originally designed with a more traditional rudder -- one attached to the trailing edge of the keel.  I believe this was done with the intent of keeping the design in compliance with the Swedish square meter rule.  Later, a new keel and rudder were designed, supposedly by a Stokholm professor of aerodynamics (does anyone know to what extent Reimers was involved in these modifications?).  At the same time a number of other modifications to the original design were done: the counter was lengthened by almost a foot, the forestay moved forward, and the cockpit and engine room rearranged.

I'm also suspicious of any claim that SISKA is a direct predecessor of the Swede 55.  A  I don't doubt that Reimer's experience designing larger Skerry cruisers like SISKA, FIDELIS, and BACCHANTE informed the design in a more abstract sense, but is there any evidence (aside from being more or less the same size) that Reimers used SISKA as a starting point?

Swede-55-als-Lamgkieler.jpg

Swede-55-Änderungen.jpg

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5 hours ago, MFH125 said:

The Swede 55 was originally designed with a more traditional rudder -- one attached to the trailing edge of the keel.  I believe this was done with the intent of keeping the design in compliance with the Swedish square meter rule.  Later, a new keel and rudder were designed, supposedly by a Stokholm professor of aerodynamics (does anyone know to what extent Reimers was involved in these modifications?).  At the same time a number of other modifications to the original design were done: the counter was lengthened by almost a foot, the forestay moved forward, and the cockpit and engine room rearranged.

I'm also suspicious of any claim that SISKA is a direct predecessor of the Swede 55.  A  I don't doubt that Reimer's experience designing larger Skerry cruisers like SISKA, FIDELIS, and BACCHANTE informed the design in a more abstract sense, but is there any evidence (aside from being more or less the same size) that Reimers used SISKA as a starting point?

Swede-55-als-Lamgkieler.jpg

Swede-55-Änderungen.jpg

Siska designed about 40 years earlier than Swede 55...quite unlikely a 'direct predecessor' unless Reimers designed no boats in that 40 years. I've seen no reference indicating such.  But Swede 55 obviously is heavily influenced by the skerry/sq meter boats, of which Reimers designed many, inc Siska. Why have Reimers design it if not for that experience and influence?

As Rolly Tasker was having a great deal of success racing Siska,  it's pretty likely that word got back to Reimers with regards to the results and modifications. Designers tend to follow the exploits of their 'children'.  IDK if the two actually exchanged correspondence, but it's possible. 

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Very interesting boat. Thank you for posting.

However, quality doesn’t come cheap, as she’s ~US$80,000 fully kitted out, which means over $13/pound for a 23 foot boat.

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^^ Very nice find, S.C. I enjoyed the videos. Interesting that it is not a centerboard cat. On the outboard aux power, it looked like they left it in the water while sailing, and had a nice remote cable throttle & transmission control. 

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12 hours ago, Starkindler said:

Very interesting boat. Thank you for posting.

However, quality doesn’t come cheap, as she’s ~US$80,000 fully kitted out, which means over $13/pound for a 23 foot boat.

It's pretty hard to find anyone who can build stuff 20' and bigger with a cabin for less than 80 grand.  Do the math on man hours/hourly rates, materials and overhead.  There's lots of used boats out there where all of these things were much cheaper at the time of build.  But for a NEW boat at today's costs, $60-$80k is pretty much entry level.

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Well BITD a new San Juan 24 was $9900 which would equate to about $90K now so it looks like things are actually a little cheaper now. ;)

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8 hours ago, Veeger said:

It's pretty hard to find anyone who can build stuff 20' and bigger with a cabin for less than 80 grand.  Do the math on man hours/hourly rates, materials and overhead.  There's lots of used boats out there where all of these things were much cheaper at the time of build.  But for a NEW boat at today's costs, $60-$80k is pretty much entry level.

Which is why you see no new boats sold in that size range. The smallest new cruising boat I have seen recently is 38'.  Meanwhile I see lots of decent 24-30 footers lying around the yard. 

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1 hour ago, Starkindler said:

Which is why you see no new boats sold in that size range. The smallest new cruising boat I have seen recently is 38'.  Meanwhile I see lots of decent 24-30 footers lying around the yard. 

Interesting discussion. I  saw a Bob Perry review of an Eagle 36 (sexy, long, skinny, sleek daysailer with 10' of overhangs). Sailing magazine estimated the sail-away price at $196K, a little over 2X the nifty Pabouk at 26'.

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There's another thread 

discussing limiting the costs of reintroducing the Moore 24 from the old molds.  

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Given a choice between a new 24'er for $80K, and an 80's vintage 40'er for $50K with the extra $30K used for a refit, I think most pleasure sailors are going to opt for the latter. 

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Exactly - the boatbuilders in the early days of glass did such a great job that they did themselves out of customers.

Many of them recognized and commented on that fact while the old boom was still in progress but winding down.

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For a specific example of a comparable catboat, the Marshal 22, full of mostly 60's era technology (but a better engine) lists for $88.900.

 

2018-08-20_1638 copy.jpg

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