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Not my usual kinda thing.  We call her mizzmo.  Thought it might entertain y'all for a while on a Friday afternoon.

 

file-104.jpeg

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And no she ain't that tender.  I am just apparently incompetent and can't figure out how to correct the rotation of the pic.

Oh and yes, the jib needs more outhaul... I know.

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2 hours ago, Hukilau said:

I can see why it would work on a boat like that, but I don't think whipstaffs are generally "space savers" .  You still need a full size tiller for the leverage the whipstaff needs to work.  

But a whipstaff operates in a different plane – it takes up “vertical” space rather than “horizontal”.

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33 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

8D33F6CA-2B78-41BD-B976-41A6C8E22A88.thumb.jpeg.d789e69abfe616c7c43d9d46c913a1db.jpeg

Clearly you are smarter than me!  Thank you for putting Mizzmo right side up. 

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2 hours ago, Wess said:

Clearly you are smarter than me!  Thank you for putting Mizzmo right side up. 

You had too much sail up. Release the traveler and the picture will right itself.

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I thought it was an old IOR boat when they still used the ketch rig sometimes.

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14 hours ago, IStream said:

You had too much sail up. Release the traveler and the picture will right itself.

I assumed that the boat was sailing on the equator.

- Stumbling

 

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2 hours ago, stumblingthunder said:
17 hours ago, IStream said:

You had too much sail up. Release the traveler and the picture will right itself.

I assumed that the boat was sailing on the equator.

- Stumbling

I guess I was exhibiting my unconscious mid-latitude bias.

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18 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I thought it was an old IOR boat when they still used the ketch rig sometimes.

Does race semi regularly but not its designed purpose. 

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3 minutes ago, SemiSalt said:

Another picture from long ago. Probably on Long Island Sound.

Whaler Sloop.jpg

NICE!

Hull looks rather Tancook-whaler-ish?

FB- Doug

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3 hours ago, Wess said:

Does race semi regularly but not its designed purpose. 

IOR or racing?

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9 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:
9 hours ago, SemiSalt said:

Another picture from long ago. Probably on Long Island Sound.

Whaler Sloop.jpg

NICE!

Hull looks rather Tancook-whaler-ish?

FB- Doug

Sail trim looks mid-fucked-erish.

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31 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

I think the hull is a pinky

Not that there's anything wrong with that..........

FB- Doug

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On 4/19/2019 at 3:21 PM, KC375 said:

But a whipstaff operates in a different plane – it takes up “vertical” space rather than “horizontal”.

 

Yes, but the whipstaff connects to a tiller; a whipstaff does not attach directly to the rudder.  In order for the tiller to have sufficient leverage to move the rudder, it needs to be a certain length.  The whipstaffs I have seen are the same length they would be if they were on deck and controlled by hand; they are just below deck.  Are you saying that a whipstaff provides leverage on it's own, making it possible to have a shorter tiller?

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10 minutes ago, Hukilau said:

Yes, but the whipstaff connects to a tiller; a whipstaff does not attach directly to the rudder.  In order for the tiller to have sufficient leverage to move the rudder, it needs to be a certain length.  The whipstaffs I have seen are the same length they would be if they were on deck and controlled by hand; they are just below deck.  Are you saying that a whipstaff provides leverage on it's own, making it possible to have a shorter tiller?

It can...... it all depends on the ratios between the fulcrum and the two working arms. For example, you could hook a very short tiller to a long whipstaff, with the fulcrum of the whipstaff quite close to the tiller and a working end that's 2x or even 3x as long...... lots of leverage there. The geometry might be difficult to fit into a normal cockpit though.

-DSK

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It looks like this to me Kris.

Same boat and guy?

And most Pinkys are schooner rigged.

606FDB4D-1BA2-4CBB-8129-697F8A20AA96.jpeg

This pic was taken a few seconds before yours...

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10 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Sail trim looks mid-fucked-erish.

Two things about that. First, I think the camera caught them either setting or furling a roller furling headsail. She's headed high enough that the main is also luffing. Second, I don't see a boom vang. That could either be because the boat was actually built before vangs became the usual thing or because the owner is emulating the old ways.

Enlarging the picture, the emblem on the main seems to be a red fox. Google found this link. Different fox, but it looks like the same design. 

 

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1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

It looks like this to me Kris.

Same boat and guy?

And most Pinkys are schooner rigged.

606FDB4D-1BA2-4CBB-8129-697F8A20AA96.jpeg

This pic was taken a few seconds before yours...

I took them both (and several others of the owner sailing into the harbor). I met the owner sometime later in the local hardware. I think he wrote this book on Tancook Whalers. The boat was built locally at the Rockport Apprenticeship to (according to him) plans of a pre 1900 Tancook Whaler. Here's the boat. 

41DvkYJcPOL._SY379_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg 

I don't know much about this stuff actually (who can keep it all straight?), and defer to others. Here's a favorite Pinky Schooner (I think) that sails locally (also built locally by Lance Lee of Outward Bound fame, I think). 

468704577_Pinkyschooner2.jpg.7f5f48b1d4d8031d7e1945bcc0beb6ba.jpg

And another SUMMERTIME that sails the schooner trade. 

summertime%20resized.jpg

The only difference between the Pinky's and the Whaler is the Pinky has a higher stern that comes to a stem point. The Whaler I think has a small flat stern?

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Ok, you are right about the boat and probably the photographer too! Good thing I didn’t take credit for the shot...

 

and here is the boat we may be discussing. The small bowsprit made me think Pinky.

E290F09A-8B30-4DC8-95AD-2118293366F6.jpeg

81BE04F2-641E-4400-93EF-521D251AAB8D.jpeg

BE678550-0082-40E0-AE71-9EA4C3707539.jpeg

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7 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

Link to the listing 

Happy Easter!

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/57026

Interestingly,  when I was a lad on the coast of Maine, late 50's early 60's, there was one that showed up in Casco Bay periodically.  Painted white and seemingly just a bit smaller.  It was a little less gawky looking than this one but may have been the same one.  At the time, it showed a homeport of Padanaram ---I'd never heard of it and thought it sounded like an exotic place of pirates and the East India company.... (who knew it was in Taxachusetts?)

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Here is a nice, short video of a Boomerang, a 33'  Giles Brittany Class Sloop under sail:

 

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12 hours ago, Priscilla said:

We met that boats owner rowing through Center Harbor on the Eggemoggin Reach. He sailed it over from the UK, I think more than once. He was (is?) working at the Brooklin Boat Yard so he knows his stuff. Small world on the water. 

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That one is right up your alley. Look at all of the beautiful wood!

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Here is the drawing for the Brittany Class Sloop. Tiller, overhangs, narrow... what's not to like?

It looks like there is break in the deck house at the mast. What's that about?

brittany_class_drawing.thumb.jpg.93ef5f473c6b0ee446edbc945f52d246.jpg

 

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I think that pinkies have a top strake that serves as a bulwark that sweeps up past the top of the sternpost offset outboard a bit. They meet in a small 'tombstone' as Bob puts it that serves as the backrest for a very convenient toilet seat!

Pinked stern

P1435.jpg

Pinked is a corruption of pinched. As in 'go to the stern if you have to 'pinch one off'

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3 hours ago, Bull City said:

Here is the drawing for the Brittany Class Sloop. Tiller, overhangs, narrow... what's not to like?

It looks like there is break in the deck house at the mast. What's that about?

brittany_class_drawing.thumb.jpg.93ef5f473c6b0ee446edbc945f52d246.jpg

 

The mast partners in a wooden boat are much stronger if you put them at deck level, instead of at cabintop level. However, I don't see any sign of that in the video of the Brittany class sloop, or in the construction view above, so I'm not sure what's going on with those plans.

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Bull, that is a beauty --thanks for posting. Believe Giles designed the "slot" for partners for the reason given by Ismael. See design penned in 1940 and likely changed to a more conventional partners in the 20 boat production.

My uncle owned a 1939 32' Reg Freeman design with the same detail. Sold it in 1962 before purchasing a Morgan Giles West Channel Class. In the summer of 1966, Uncle taught me to sail on the West Channel Class on the River Orwell at Woolverstone. (Harwich Yacht Club) Believe a year or two later, a young Dylan Winter arrived from London to attend the Woolverstone school for boys next door.  --Small world.1532737135_GayGalliard1965848(Medium).thumb.jpg.60371cc866c96876df5a57600c2021f4.jpg

 

Gamester.jpg

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i think young Mr Perry designed his carbon cutters thus. As did Holman his Stiletto. It also allows of a nice sort of tray around the partners to catch halyards and bits of rigging falling from the mast. 

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Ismael Has it correct. The slot was to avoid having the mast go through the cabin top where they thought it could not be adequately supported. But on the carbon cutters as on many newer boats it is used as a styling feature.  I use that feature all the time on my cartoons. I like the way it looks. It does make an effective interior layout a challenge.

 

Two C F cutters

 

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Bob, I don't think I'm saying anything new, but those really are a couple of handsome boats...

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Last night this Baba 40 (Airloom) was more or less keeping up with a J/109, Olson 911SE, Express 37, and other much lighter boats in a light air (5 knots and dropping) downwind leg.  They were impressive (and we weren't having a great leg).  It's pretty cool seeing how well these guys campaign a 30,000lb cruiser:

image.thumb.jpeg.a303a10243873ffdf961ce23638fc0a9.jpeg

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32,000 lbs. please. AIRLOOM has a 6' taller rig than the stock Baba 40 as does CINNAMON GIRL. I think people who disparage "full keel" boats should try sailing one of the Tashiba/Baba series boats. Maybe they could learn something.

Baba 40 racer

 

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Alpha:

Thanks. The carbon cutters are amazing boats to sail With a VCG 1.7' below the DWL they have a feeling of power you seldom get in a cruising boat.

 

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5 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Ismael Has it correct. The slot was to avoid having the mast go through the cabin top where they thought it could not be adequately supported. But on the carbon cutters as on many newer boats it is used as a styling feature.  I use that feature all the time on my cartoons. I like the way it looks. It does make an effective interior layout a challenge.

 

Two C F cutters

 

There is also the benefit of safety.  Much better to stand at deck level rather than on the cabin top when working at the mast in rough conditions.

 

Steve

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33 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

32,000 lbs. please. AIRLOOM has a 6' taller rig than the stock Baba 40 as does CINNAMON GIRL. I think people who disparage "full keel" boats should try sailing one of the Tashiba/Baba series boats. Maybe they could learn something.

Baba 40 racer

 

 

So, you're saying yeah it's a crab crusher, but it's a crab crusher with fender flares & spoilers?

;)

Great pic,BTW, the boat looks very cruise-y but is obviously humping right along!

FB- Doug

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Class 3 orgasm:

image.png.88463312e37ff9d4e694a24e26a5e00f.png

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1 hour ago, Bull City said:

Class 3 orgasm:

image.png.88463312e37ff9d4e694a24e26a5e00f.png

It's a nice boat, Bull, but I shudder to think of your reaction when it's rigged. And when it's under sail, I advise you stay clear of the area.

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57 minutes ago, IStream said:

It's a nice boat, Bull, but I shudder to think of your reaction when it's rigged. And when it's under sail, I advise you stay clear of the area.

Or at least wear a drysuit.

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 Woodnutt??

Guess I can't be accused of fanning any1733752911_GamesterMarch1951029.jpg.38a74a80ae4af49337a65f5b7d32a4d2.jpg flames now.

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44 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Or at least wear a drysuit.

And stay off the teak deck.

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On 4/30/2019 at 1:09 AM, rstone said:

 

Gamester.jpg

That polygon-shaped thingy, set flush in the deck, just forward of the house, is it a (gasp!) deck prism by any chance?

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On 4/30/2019 at 1:02 AM, Rasputin22 said:

I think that pinkies have a top strake that serves as a bulwark that sweeps up past the top of the sternpost offset outboard a bit. They meet in a small 'tombstone' as Bob puts it that serves as the backrest for a very convenient toilet seat!

Pinked stern

P1435.jpg

Pinked is a corruption of pinched. As in 'go to the stern if you have to 'pinch one off'

And as a variation, pinking shears:

200px-Zackenschere.jpg

Pinking shears have a utilitarian function for cutting woven cloth. Cloth edges that are unfinished will easily fray, the weave becoming undone and threads pulling out easily. The sawtooth pattern does not prevent the fraying but limits the length of the frayed thread and thus minimizes damage

The cut produced by pinking shears may have been derived from the plant called a pink, a flowering plant in the genus Dianthus (commonly called a carnation).[3] The color pink may have been named after these flowers, although the origins of the name are not definitively known. As the carnation has scalloped, or "pinked", edges to its petals, pinking shears can be thought to produce an edge similar to the flower.

The word "pink" can be used as a verb dating back to 1300 meaning "pierce, stab, make holes in".

- Stumbling

 

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What about Pink Floyd?

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Laurent Giles web page on the Brittany Class here.

In Laurent Giles and HIs Yacht Designs, there is this comment: One of the marked characteristics of the Brittany Class was its large, useful doghouse which had big windows allowing plenty of light and standing headroom below.

At the time of this design, 1939, masts were made of wood, and some of the pictures show an elegantly tapered spar. We are now so used to simple extrusions for masts and booms that we forget how much elegance nicely tapered spars lend to a boat.

2019-05-01_1243.png

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Hard to gain any perspective here but likely a base for the original windlass as shown.

Recall British boats of that era having flush "skylights" so maybe the case. 

Not sure when she crossed the Atlantic but now sailing in PNWGamester_June_1958031.thumb.jpg.dc8144875f0b8e71e88e6f1c5f40f6e5.jpg 

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4 hours ago, Bull City said:

That polygon-shaped thingy, set flush in the deck, just forward of the house, is it a (gasp!) deck prism by any chance?

No, I think it is a chunk of the king plank in the shade.

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4 hours ago, Bull City said:

That polygon-shaped thingy, set flush in the deck, just forward of the house, is it a (gasp!) deck prism by any chance?

Varnished kingplank.

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19 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Aage Nielsen Pilot 33.

8dc7b8c936b2b7014c23f520a503eff4.thumb.jpg.612513b1c093b970bb44586bd798aae0.jpg

 

312807911_ScreenShot2019-05-01at3_42_02PM.png.95a159896bd8c5900fb31ca72b946d69.png

N539-G-1-2-900.jpg.cb546375340cdf04a3ad46ab3035b400.jpg

1274340945_ScreenShot2019-05-01at4_15_29PM.png.a3209893cea8f555d5fccb8da506b97e.png

What a beauty! Class 2.

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To me, CCA-like boats (like the Pilot 33) look just as good on paper as they do in person.  The plans for that boat show just as much as a work of art as the real article does.

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1 hour ago, Hukilau said:

To me, CCA-like boats (like the Pilot 33) look just as good on paper as they do in person.  The plans for that boat show just as much as a work of art as the real article does.

I like the CCA boats too, they had a lot of ability and practicality too. But they were also hothouse flowers to some extent, not as great an extent as the later IOR boats.

They were probably the closest to the ideal of a "racer-cruiser that can be cruised" but it's notable that they were dropped in favor of boats that sailed around buoys faster..... especially upwind.

Have we seen some drawings & pics of 'Finisterre' in this thread? She's my favorite. I bet after 100+ pages she's in here somewhere

FB- Doug

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those remind me of the Stewart 34 - which were/are also a very competitive yacht. Not quite the same overhangs but a fast and comfortable cruiser too.

 

Stewart 34

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I am thinking about the surfboard industry, which moved from hollow wood paddle boards, to solid wood tankers, to solid balsa glue-ups, to foam glue ups, all hand shaped, to Surftech (Eastern European made tough white plastic skin over closed cell foam, based on a classic shape), etc. to Grain hollow wood board.

What if somebody built say a Concordia yawl or an Aage Nielsen design in FG, with a judicious use of teak on toe rails, cockpit coamings, etc., and a traditional interior? Probably a fool's errand, but I would line up.

I am emotionally (and financially) attached to the 1980 H-Boat that I renovated, but I don't think I could get attached to an Outstar 48.

Thoughts? Deposits?

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With you there Bull in spirit.

Crikey I cycle past a sales berth to get to my old log of wood and its chock full of eyesore fat arsed multi wheeled fuglies.

In my book if it looks right it is right.

However a new build plastic classic with authentic timber interior would cost moonbeams which is loot I simply do not and will not have access to.

Plenty of oldish not hard on the eye plastic semi classics around but I am partial to a timber hull with visible ribs and planking it may be a primal hark back to have been consumed by a Woolly Mammoth in a past reincarnation.

Interestingly the 50 year old 32 foot wooden sloop with teak decks that we have had for 18 odd years now really has not consumed vastly more quantities of loot to run and maintain when exampled against a plastic one.

That is bearing in mind that short of making the sails we undertake most required tasks.

Todays cutie NY32.

tumblr_mw084yv4VI1t09arco1_500.jpg.4b924366ff6ec19dc09994df15f09f76.jpg

 

 

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4 hours ago, Bull City said:

I am thinking about the surfboard industry, which moved from hollow wood paddle boards, to solid wood tankers, to solid balsa glue-ups, to foam glue ups, all hand shaped, to Surftech (Eastern European made tough white plastic skin over closed cell foam, based on a classic shape), etc. to Grain hollow wood board.

What if somebody built say a Concordia yawl or an Aage Nielsen design in FG, with a judicious use of teak on toe rails, cockpit coamings, etc., and a traditional interior? Probably a fool's errand, but I would line up.

I am emotionally (and financially) attached to the 1980 H-Boat that I renovated, but I don't think I could get attached to an Outstar 48.

Thoughts? Deposits?

Hinckley Bermuda 40.

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Yup the Bermuda is a beauty.

Marvelous classic lines.

Marvelous cockpit with great storage.

Marvelous wide side decks.

Damned shame it is such a proliferate sinker.

DSC_1935.thumb.jpeg.f2693c13da7db731d2c66d6e40c8f0ca.jpeg

 

 

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Bull, what you describe is not all that far from the premise of Bob's carbon cutters.

Maybe that's why I like them so much!

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Have always liked Chuck Paine's work.

Annie small cracker couples yacht with a bit of traditional going on.

246489.5c52d3e2b00a6416bab2d346_xl.thumb.jpg.a1216914c2bdb7ecd9be5b7347a423d8.jpg

246489.5c52d3e2b00a6416bab2d313_xl.thumb.jpg.74f9e61e4bc31dde14ee1f3c25fe5282.jpg

https://moreboats.com/boats/morris/annie/246489

Cost of marina berths here in the long white cloud are for ever rising and our 10m costs $650pm where a 12m costs $885pm.

If you are living on a fixed income small is betterer.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Bull City said:

I am thinking about the surfboard industry, which moved from hollow wood paddle boards, to solid wood tankers, to solid balsa glue-ups, to foam glue ups, all hand shaped, to Surftech (Eastern European made tough white plastic skin over closed cell foam, based on a classic shape), etc. to Grain hollow wood board.

What if somebody built say a Concordia yawl or an Aage Nielsen design in FG, with a judicious use of teak on toe rails, cockpit coamings, etc., and a traditional interior? Probably a fool's errand, but I would line up.

I am emotionally (and financially) attached to the 1980 H-Boat that I renovated, but I don't think I could get attached to an Outstar 48.

Thoughts? Deposits?

Wood composite construction is state of the art around here. The most exciting boats that are being built locally (the only boats!), are largely one off custom designs. The new 'wood' composite building techniques have replaced the fiberglass molded hull idea for new boat buyers that want custom. A bit ironic. 

Our local boat builders design office launched a press idea to build any Aage Nielsen design in cold molded construction. This area has a near cult following of Nielsen owners and fans so the drawings are all readily available. 

They elaborated to me that they in fact could easily convert any old design (they'd hold their nose and do my boat for instance, a fiberglass hull, in cold molded hull), to the new systems they use.  

No action in nearly 10 years since. 

The obvious reasons (to me) are # 1, cost. Unless the boats are systems simple like the old days, a 40'er with todays systems would likely push 1 mil.

There's always a Concordia or B-40 for sale and Nielsen boats aren't too hard to find. With these boats you hire the boat builders to re-hab and or continue the $$$ Hinckley maintenance level but the cost is nothing compared to a new boat, custom built. 

The custom boat buyer around here apparently prefers new design in their boats. A trend I see is many of these buyers sell their boats in a few years (at a major loss) and a few call the designers again. 

250210498_Arabesquetravelift.thumb.jpg.59bf64c2cf3ca8274af471a3cef1b04d.jpg

Those that prefer the look and sailing of older museum like yachts have plenty to choose from at about 10% of the cost of building new.

 

A final irony is that the oldest boats around here - if you write a little bigger check each year (not a lot; 1 part coat of varnish, topsides, house) - are the newest looking boats each spring,...every spring. 

 

You can't get this 'new' look, with most 'newer' boats. It comes in a can. 

745042070_Concordiabling.thumb.jpg.3cd3f11509e403df4ef8b175123e8fcb.jpg

 

 

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6 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

Wood composite construction is state of the art around here. The most exciting boats that are being built locally (the only boats!), are largely one off custom designs. The new 'wood' composite building techniques have replaced the fiberglass molded hull idea for new boat buyers that want custom. A bit ironic. 

Our local boat builders design office launched a press idea to build any Aage Nielsen design in cold molded construction. This area has a near cult following of Nielsen owners and fans so the drawings are all readily available. 

They elaborated to me that they in fact could easily convert any old design (they'd hold their nose and do my boat for instance, a fiberglass hull, in cold molded hull), to the new systems they use.  

No action in nearly 10 years since. 

The obvious reasons (to me) are # 1, cost. Unless the boats are systems simple like the old days, a 40'er with todays systems would likely push 1 mil.

There's always a Concordia or B-40 for sale and Nielsen boats aren't too hard to find. With these boats you hire the boat builders to re-hab and or continue the $$$ Hinckley maintenance level but the cost is nothing compared to a new boat, custom built. 

The custom boat buyer around here apparently prefers new design in their boats. A trend I see is many of these buyers sell their boats in a few years (at a major loss) and a few call the designers again. 

Those that prefer the look and sailing of older museum like yachts have plenty to choose from at about 10% of the cost of building new.

A final irony is that the oldest boats around here - if you write a little bigger check each year (not a lot; 1 part coat of varnish, topsides, house) - are the newest looking boats each spring,...every spring. 

You can't get this 'new' look, with most 'newer' boats. It comes in a can. 

Kris, this is an excellent post. I saw that BBY is building a composite/cold-molded Alerion 26. I wonder how that's going. 

Also, I was curious about this: when you say, "Unless the boats are systems simple like the old days, a 40'er with todays systems would likely push 1 mil," what would "today's systems" consist of, and how much would they add to the cost. It seems like you could keep things simple on an Alerion 26 sized boat, even up to the 30 to 32 foot range.

B.C.

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12 hours ago, Priscilla said:

If you are living on a fixed income small is betterer.

Oh yeah!

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8 hours ago, Bull City said:

Kris, this is an excellent post. I saw that BBY is building a composite/cold-molded Alerion 26. I wonder how that's going. 

Also, I was curious about this: when you say, "Unless the boats are systems simple like the old days, a 40'er with todays systems would likely push 1 mil," what would "today's systems" consist of, and how much would they add to the cost. It seems like you could keep things simple on an Alerion 26 sized boat, even up to the 30 to 32 foot range.

B.C.

You could keep things simple, but then comes the "what about a radar, or A/C" questions......

Even on 30 footers it seems.

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I've had them complicated and I've had them simple.

Simple is better.

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16 hours ago, Bull City said:

Kris, this is an excellent post. I saw that BBY is building a composite/cold-molded Alerion 26. I wonder how that's going. 

Also, I was curious about this: when you say, "Unless the boats are systems simple like the old days, a 40'er with todays systems would likely push 1 mil," what would "today's systems" consist of, and how much would they add to the cost. It seems like you could keep things simple on an Alerion 26 sized boat, even up to the 30 to 32 foot range.

B.C.

The customs I'm seeing have electrics running many things, roller furling headsail - main sail (boom furled), sheet winches, bow thrusters (even on a 36'er!), add the comlicated storage and charging systems just to keep it all running - and all the specialists to install them. Sophisticated power systems (hybrid), and then the electronics to start are becoming complicated.

 

Someone working at the builders told me these extra's today add significantly. The people that have these boats built don't seem interested in simple boats. The irony (another irony!) is that these boats are nearly all conceived in the now decades old 'day sailer' genre. I think it's basis is light, fast, easy to sail.

Come to think of it though, I saw them un-furl, then furl the mainsail on a 50'er in about a minute,  just by pushing one of these buttons:

2002848713_CARYALICOCKPITCLOSECROP.thumb.jpg.693f346ebeda725bfd40bdda48f63550.jpg

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12 hours ago, Fleetwood said:

You could keep things simple, but then comes the "what about a radar, or A/C" questions......

Even on 30 footers it seems.

As soon as you've smelt a cargo ship before seeing it, radar or at least AIS is tempting.

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22 hours ago, Panoramix said:

As soon as you've smelt a cargo ship before seeing it, radar or at least AIS is tempting.

Smelt it or felt it!    Had a tanker try to sneak up from behind while doing a crossing of Gulf of Mexico and the on watch person was deep into a reading passage and not swiveling his head enough.     I was down below doing some food prep when I could feel a thrumming through the hull and keel.    I came up and the tanker was coming up from behind to overtake us and had neither hailed us on the VHF nor yanked the cord to the hooter.    They motored on by a little less than a quarter mile away.    

Judging by their course, they came from Mobile, AL and we were a good 200 miles South of there.    

At least it was during the day.   That would have been a bit more sporty at night.

- Stumbling

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20 minutes ago, stumblingthunder said:

Smelt it or felt it!    Had a tanker try to sneak up from behind while doing a crossing of Gulf of Mexico and the on watch person was deep into a reading passage and not swiveling his head enough.     I was down below doing some food prep when I could feel a thrumming through the hull and keel.    I came up and the tanker was coming up from behind to overtake us and had neither hailed us on the VHF nor yanked the cord to the hooter.    They motored on by a little less than a quarter mile away.    

Judging by their course, they came from Mobile, AL and we were a good 200 miles South of there.    

At least it was during the day.   That would have been a bit more sporty at night.

- Stumbling

They were overtaking you, so you were technically OK!

I remember smelling the sulphuric odour of one in foggy conditions when I was a kid (English channel). Next year my dad had a radar on a 26 feet boat!

Conversation went about like :

"Dad I can smell one"
"Where is it?"
""There..."

"Nah, You can't know with smell"
"Can anybody hear it?"
Silence...
"He's got to be somewhere to windward"
"Keep sailing, don't alter course"

Visibility wasn't that bad otherwise we would have U-turned (1 or 2 NM? you never know unless you have a radar!) I think that he was probably relatively far away plotting our CPA on his radar, but still scary times.

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39 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

They were overtaking you, so you were technically OK!

I remember smelling the sulphuric odour of one in foggy conditions when I was a kid (English channel). Next year my dad had a radar on a 26 feet boat!

Conversation went about like :

"Dad I can smell one"
"Where is it?"
""There..."

"Nah, You can't know with smell"
"Can anybody hear it?"
Silence...
"He's got to be somewhere to windward"
"Keep sailing, don't alter course"

Visibility wasn't that bad otherwise we would have U-turned (1 or 2 NM? you never know unless you have a radar!) I think that he was probably relatively far away plotting our CPA on his radar, but still scary times.

You have a lot more concentrated traffic in the English Channel than in the Eastern part of the Gulf of Mexico!  That is for sure.    

I would not want to be dodging lines of Big indifferent Metal Creatures in the fog!

- Stumbling

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55 minutes ago, stumblingthunder said:

You have a lot more concentrated traffic in the English Channel than in the Eastern part of the Gulf of Mexico!  That is for sure.    

I would not want to be dodging lines of Big indifferent Metal Creatures in the fog!

- Stumbling

Yes in complete fog it would suicidal, we were doing it with at least a bit of visibility. The person on watch definitely can't read! At 20 knots, 2 miles is only 6 minutes! Nevertheless at 5 knots you do half a mile in 5 minutes which is actually quite a lot as long as you react correctly (basically gybing or taking away from the CPA!).

It is a skill that you end up learning, in the noughties a boat from South Brittany (they are not used to this silly game!) took me on board for one of the cross channel RORC races. We were crossing ahead of a tanker and tacking would have been expensive in racing term. Skipper was uneasy and asked me "What do you think, are we alright?", I took the compass around my neck and after 3 minutes I said something like "that's a bit tight but safe." So we carried on, we crossed may be a mile / half a mile ahead, they were worried but I've crossed so many of them that I knew we would be fine.

I got a relatively close call once, I was with my dad, he told me that he was off for some sleep but I didn't hear him (this was a decade later than the first story, on this boat the radar was inside so you could be doing stuff inside with an eye on the radar) so hatch was closed and I was steering by hand assuming that he was up. Some mighty steely thing came out of nowhere suddenly, I tacked away immediately (dinghy style!) and to my surprise at CPA we had a few hundred metre to spare.

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21 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Yes in complete fog it would suicidal, we were doing it with at least a bit of visibility. The person on watch definitely can't read! At 20 knots, 2 miles is only 6 minutes! Nevertheless at 5 knots you do half a mile in 5 minutes which is actually quite a lot as long as you react correctly (basically gybing or taking away from the CPA!).

It is a skill that you end up learning, in the noughties a boat from South Brittany (they are not used to this silly game!) took me on board for one of the cross channel RORC races. We were crossing ahead of a tanker and tacking would have been expensive in racing term. Skipper was uneasy and asked me "What do you think, are we alright?", I took the compass around my neck and after 3 minutes I said something like "that's a bit tight but safe." So we carried on, we crossed may be a mile / half a mile ahead, they were worried but I've crossed so many of them that I knew we would be fine.

I got a relatively close call once, I was with my dad, he told me that he was off for some sleep but I didn't hear him (this was a decade later than the first story, on this boat the radar was inside so you could be doing stuff inside with an eye on the radar) so hatch was closed and I was steering by hand assuming that he was up. Some mighty steely thing came out of nowhere suddenly, I tacked away immediately (dinghy style!) and to my surprise at CPA we had a few hundred metre to spare.

It's kinda like playing with hand grenades...... IF you're not sure you're safe until afterwards, you were much too close!

I have family that I sail with occasionally in the Boston area, they are meticulous about some things but shockingly casual about playing death-tag with big freighters. I don't like to be close enough to read their facial expressions as they go by!

FB- Doug

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55 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

It's kinda like playing with hand grenades...... IF you're not sure you're safe until afterwards, you were much too close!

I have family that I sail with occasionally in the Boston area, they are meticulous about some things but shockingly casual about playing death-tag with big freighters. I don't like to be close enough to read their facial expressions as they go by!

FB- Doug

The last one was definitely dodgy and scary, the issue was complacency!

It ended up being a close call rather than an accident thanks to a bit of luck and all the experience acquired before zigzagging safely around ships. Time is against you and if you start dithering you can put yourself in a desperate situation. Touching wood but it happened to me just once, it was a good lesson! When cruising I try to cross more than a mile ahead and more than a quarter of a mile behind (actually I aim a quarter of a mile behind so that I have plenty of space to clear the next one!).

As for your family, if they do it regularly, they might be more serious than you think, it is more about being where you know they won't go rather than a simple matter of distance.

This guy show you where you don't want to be :

 

The other boats were close but in the right spot and sailing away!

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Looks like the automatic mast de-rigger worked perfectly.

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2 hours ago, Panoramix said:

The last one was definitely dodgy and scary, the issue was complacency!

It ended up being a close call rather than an accident thanks to a bit of luck and all the experience acquired before zigzagging safely around ships. Time is against you and if you start dithering you can put yourself in a desperate situation. Touching wood but it happened to me just once, it was a good lesson! When cruising I try to cross more than a mile ahead and more than a quarter of a mile behind (actually I aim a quarter of a mile behind so that I have plenty of space to clear the next one!).

As for your family, if they do it regularly, they might be more serious than you think, it is more about being where you know they won't go rather than a simple matter of distance.

This guy show you where you don't want to be :

 

The other boats were close but in the right spot and sailing away!

Yep, saw this when it happened...... wasn't the boat chartered to a Navy officer?

Analyzing relative motion is something the mammal brain is supposed to be good at..... bats and mongooses, for example. Humans, maybe NOT analyzing relative motion for big potentially deadly objects is a learned skill?

Like "it's OK to text while driving" is a lesson that thousands.... probably more like tens of thousands..... of people learn every day. It happens to be VERY incorrect, yet that's what is learned when somebody does it and gets away with it.

I am uncomfortable in the cone ahead of a big ship. One exception is if they're constrained to a channel and I'm over a shoal right next to that channel, but I still don't sail across their bows. A mile sounds about right.

-DSK

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But we do it every day on the race course, not cleaning the other guy's paint then you're way too cautious!

The difference is that both boats are (usually) about the same size..............

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He looks lonely.

 

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34 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

He looks lonely.

 

 

Sad sight , lonely guy on big boat.

 

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Very common for the Euro big custom boats (sail & power) that crew, if not actually doing something, are below in crew mess out of sight. There is a 'servants' button ( or intercom) on the helm station to get a new drink or to work the boat.

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