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Underneath all that stuff looks to be a very handsome boat. More pics please!

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2 hours ago, Tito said:

Sorry to keep detailing this beautiful thread... But...

Is there any difference if the trailer is inside of a container?

Nope - they open the container dockside. If customs see your trailer without all the documentation there is no sympathy. I think the idea of taking off the hitch & lights etc & calling it a dolly might work, but I wouldn't want o be stuck with an impounded boat on a dock where the charges are outrageous if the container has to hang around. 

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3 hours ago, Bull City said:

Underneath all that stuff looks to be a very handsome boat. More pics please!

Im going to try and catch them in the morning. The forestay and inner forestay have hard protective sheaths so I think they may run some sort of hanks with an ability to still furl. 

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On 7/6/2019 at 11:34 PM, Tanton Y_M said:

Cuilaun, Mac Gruer 1970.

20190706_161529_resized.jpg

I remember this boat well - Build for an owner in Kinsale, Ireland in the late 70's(?).

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Kirawan. Phil Rhodes, 1936.

Totally new re-built. Admire the dog house.

20190818_145147_resized (1).jpg

20190818_145112_resized.jpg

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Rhodes was an artist like no other.

No-one, not even Olin ever drew a sheer as sweet.

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29 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Had to stick this nice shot I found somewhere. Something odd about the roach on that mainsail...

1985 Newick "TRICIA" Trimaran Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Someone passed a really big roach to him, on long tongs...

- Stumbling

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2 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Had to stick this nice shot I found somewhere. Something odd about the roach on that mainsail...

1985 Newick "TRICIA" Trimaran Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I think it's just that the main is very strangely trimmed: traveler is above center, lots of sheet out, so boom is near cntrln with a huge amount of twist in the profile.

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5 hours ago, Tanton Y_M said:

Kirawan. Phil Rhodes, 1936.

Totally new re-built. Admire the dog house.

20190818_145147_resized (1).jpg

20190818_145112_resized.jpg

Gawgeous! Has it sunk yet? ;)

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5 hours ago, Tanton Y_M said:

Kirawan. Phil Rhodes, 1936.

Totally new re-built. Admire the dog house.

20190818_145147_resized (1).jpg

20190818_145112_resized.jpg

Makes my heart go pitter-pat.  That, ladies and gentleman, is what a real binnacle looks like.  I seriously considered putting in a bid on a Rhodes Swiftsure a few years ago.  I was just boatstruck with the beauty of it all.  But practicality won out.  Just not the right design for my kind of sailing.  Not to mention that when I showed the boat to Mrs. Hukilau, she remarked "it looks like Popeye's boat".  She did not mean that in a good way.  

As for this beauty, I'd love to see her in the slip next to mine, and get invited to go sailing on her.  But I don't fancy spending 5% of my income on varnish and sandpaper.

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The Mrs. needs a course in yacht esthetics. ;)

image.png.a30964366cbf00f78930f130cbda6f13.pngimage.png.a6c9905c65dd9eb689c5dc2adce21d7e.png

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6 hours ago, longy said:

I think it's just that the main is very strangely trimmed: traveler is above center, lots of sheet out, so boom is near cntrln with a huge amount of twist in the profile.

Probably trying to avoid downshifting by reefing.   The leeward ama looks pressed a bit in the photo.

Squinting at the photo, it does not look like reef lines have been lead to the reef points, unless they are really tiny leader lines that the grain of the photo cannot pick up.

- Stumbling

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On 7/17/2019 at 12:29 PM, SASSAFRASS said:

Fam is back super nice people tons of kids and grand kids running around.  This boat went thru Irma, not sure of all details but think it took the rig, was one of the few hulls to make it out unscathed. 

IMG_20190717_122304621_HDR~2.jpg

 

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On 8/10/2019 at 2:14 PM, Panoramix said:

Do you use IRC in Denmark?

No, DH = Danish Handicap. It can be compared to ORC as it's a mathematical VPP-model based on actual measurements, whereas IRC has a bit of mystery/"fudge"-factor, only known to the IRC committee.

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49 minutes ago, Misbehavin' said:

No, DH = Danish Handicap. It can be compared to ORC as it's a mathematical VPP-model based on actual measurements, whereas IRC has a bit of mystery/"fudge"-factor, only known to the IRC committee.

Yes, have a look here (1/4 tonner for example) to find all the measurements taken for any boat, quite transparent. And accurate, in my view.

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Though the win of Alacrity in the Round the Island Race dates already some weeks back, I have only now seen a pic of her on land, showing how much thought went into her underwater configuration. It is also depicted in a very good Seahorse article.

This is sooo cool, well done, Jo Richards! Modern (!) bilge keels on the rise?

PED6201.jpg?zoom=1.25&ssl=1

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Here’s Skateaway, a 40’ racing cruising trimaran with Transient, a 30 something foot world renowned racing trimaran.

Both beautiful, fast and functional in their own way. 

E327A314-BAFD-4873-BD6D-DF6EE9B0CCAA.png

E5D8FE77-F3D6-4A06-A557-1F2B68E1C89F.jpeg

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57 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Be Happy!

happy trinite 2015.jpg

I can picture a whole set of imoji asyms.    "I said, set the I Love You runner, not the wacko reacher!!!"

- Stumbling

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Poor fellow that lived in Forked River, NJ, near Skateaway created the smiley face. 

He probably kicked himself in the ass until he died because he didn’t trademark or patent the iconic artwork

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20 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

The Mrs. needs a course in yacht esthetics. ;)

image.png.a30964366cbf00f78930f130cbda6f13.pngimage.png.a6c9905c65dd9eb689c5dc2adce21d7e.png

I must reluctantly agree...

Ironically, she's an interior designer, with professionally good taste.  When choosing furniture for our own house, I take the "but is it comfortable?" side, while she's all about the "look".  Quite the opposite of how the look of boats affects us.  I'm all "look at that sheer line!  What a gorgeous cockpit!", and she's "there's no headroom in here and it's dark", and "how would you get back on board if you want to swim?"  These days, her tastes in yachts tend towards modern, large catamarans.  Whattayagonnado?

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34 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

Poor fellow that lived in Forked River, NJ, near Skateaway created the smiley face. 

He probably kicked himself in the ass until he died because he didn’t trademark or patent the iconic artwork

I thought Forrest Gump came up with that idea.

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40 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

Poor fellow that lived in Forked River, NJ, near Skateaway created the smiley face. 

He probably kicked himself in the ass until he died because he didn’t trademark or patent the iconic artwork

You think that is bad?

 

How much did Nike pay Carolyn Davidson for creating the swoosh symbol?
When he appeared on "The Oprah Winfrey Show" in April, Nike co-founder Phil Knight told the talk show host that his company paid Carolyn Davidson $35 for her logodesign in 1971. 

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See? That’s just another slap in his smiley face. Only this time it was in 70mm

I feel worse for Carolyn, but I think she worked for the company, so it would have been designed for  Nike.

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7 hours ago, Matagi said:

Though the win of Alacrity in the Round the Island Race dates already some weeks back, I have only now seen a pic of her on land, showing how much thought went into her underwater configuration. It is also depicted in a very good Seahorse article.

 This is sooo cool, well done, Jo Richards! Modern (!) bilge keels on the rise?

 

Alacrity   Eeyore.

My bad. Sorry.

Eeyore-CCW-17RT1507.jpg

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1 hour ago, Hukilau said:

I must reluctantly agree...

Ironically, she's an interior designer, with professionally good taste.  When choosing furniture for our own house, I take the "but is it comfortable?" side, while she's all about the "look".  Quite the opposite of how the look of boats affects us.  I'm all "look at that sheer line!  What a gorgeous cockpit!", and she's "there's no headroom in here and it's dark", and "how would you get back on board if you want to swim?"  These days, her tastes in yachts tend towards modern, large catamarans.  Whattayagonnado?

What you're told.

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1 hour ago, Hawaiidart said:

I thought Forrest Gump came up with that idea.

I thought it was Michelle Weinberger.

Or was that just Post-It notes?

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1 hour ago, Crash said:

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2005/bruce-king-cutter-raised-deck-cutter-3124331/?refSource=enhanced listing

Throw an asym on it, and you could be the scourge of the PHRF C Fleet, plus have the best looking boat in the fleet?

I normally don't like the raised deck look, but.... damn!

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Looks like a baby version of his old Ericson 36C.

He was an artiste for sure. Just look at his personal boat.

image.png.5cc7b588c7281af3ca934a9e0635a7c5.png

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On 8/20/2019 at 12:15 PM, Misbehavin' said:

No, DH = Danish Handicap. It can be compared to ORC as it's a mathematical VPP-model based on actual measurements, whereas IRC has a bit of mystery/"fudge"-factor, only known to the IRC committee.

The fudge factor was precisely why I was asking. Some older "nordic style" narrow boats (aphrodite 101, wasa 55) seem to be doing well from time to time in IRC races recently. I suspect this is because IRC dislike sail area and "slippery" boats don't need much sail area. Trouble is that we don't have many narrow boat here, so it is hard to say whether it is really the boat design or something else. I was hoping that you were in a position give us an educated opinion on their performance in IRC.

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On 8/20/2019 at 1:14 PM, Matagi said:

Though the win of Alacrity in the Round the Island Race dates already some weeks back, I have only now seen a pic of her on land, showing how much thought went into her underwater configuration. It is also depicted in a very good Seahorse article.

This is sooo cool, well done, Jo Richards! Modern (!) bilge keels on the rise?

PED6201.jpg?zoom=1.25&ssl=1

Bilge keel isn't as slow as most people think, especially upwind.

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7 hours ago, Panoramix said:

Bilge keel isn't as slow as most people think, especially upwind.

Mebbe.  But with a reversed leading edge like that, I'd have serious grass/kelp build up in my neck of the woods.  Believe me, with 2 vertical daggerboards and 2 spade rudders,  I know a thing or two about harvesting sea grass, because I've seen a thing or two.....

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9 hours ago, Panoramix said:

Bilge keel isn't as slow as most people think, especially upwind.

Like a biplane, lots of lift, but more drag too...

A single deeper narrower chord keel can make the same lift for less drag

but there are other “pragmatic” reasons I suspect for the bilge keels

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On 8/21/2019 at 7:14 AM, Sail4beer said:

See? That’s just another slap in his smiley face. Only this time it was in 70mm

I feel worse for Carolyn, but I think she worked for the company, so it would have been designed for  Nike.

The current brand attributes and equity weren't attached to Nike at origination, of course.

So, probably a fair rate for a couple of hours artwork at the time. :-)

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10 hours ago, Crash said:

Like a biplane, lots of lift, but more drag too...

A single deeper narrower chord keel can make the same lift for less drag

but there are other “pragmatic” reasons I suspect for the bilge keels

In France, we had boats that you could buy either as a deep fin or as a modern bilge keel.

The deep keel ended up being marginally faster mainly downwind. So depending on the handicap system, the bilge keel can be advantageous for a racer and for a cruiser in tidal areas, the bilge keel should be the logical choice. Nevertheless, people associate bilge keel with poor performance so don't buy them.

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12 hours ago, Veeger said:

Mebbe.  But with a reversed leading edge like that, I'd have serious grass/kelp build up in my neck of the woods.  Believe me, with 2 vertical daggerboards and 2 spade rudders,  I know a thing or two about harvesting sea grass, because I've seen a thing or two.....

IRC doesn't like bulbs, I am pretty sure that he's chosen this shape to lower the COG and minimise the wetted area. On the positive side, with a bit of heel a crew must be able to reach for the kelp!

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

RM 1070

I like the concept, wonder how she handles.

 

 

 

f_def1d2f4b1.jpeg

Very well, they are praised for their abilities, their room and their style. A bit extravagant, but still on the good side of it. 

Although... the new RM 1180 is really borderline... But it grows on me. Note the winch arangement. Good for short-handed, yet not single-handed sailing.

Pic: yacht.de/N.Krauss

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A lot of twin keel boats were designed primarily as shallow water boats, and part of the reason for poor performance was that the keels had a low aspect ratio. The French figures out that the penalty was not so big if the aspect ratio was higher.

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10 hours ago, SemiSalt said:

A lot of twin keel boats were designed primarily as shallow water boats, and part of the reason for poor performance was that the keels had a low aspect ratio. The French figures out that the penalty was not so big if the aspect ratio was higher.

Yes. Here's a Django 7.70 from Marée Haute.

P8103526.jpg

It was sailed from France via Cape Horn to (currently) Northern Australia. Marée Haute dubs it the 'SUV of sailing' and I can see why.

more: intothewind.fr

 

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On 8/23/2019 at 6:57 PM, Matagi said:

f_def1d2f4b1.jpeg

Very well, they are praised for their abilities, their room and their style. A bit extravagant, but still on the good side of it. 

Although... the new RM 1180 is really borderline... But it grows on me. Note the winch arangement. Good for short-handed, yet not single-handed sailing.

Pic: yacht.de/N.Krauss

It appears as though you can't make a full turn on those primaries, is that correct?

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2 hours ago, bmiller said:

It appears as though you can't make a full turn on those primaries, is that correct?

I think you can, from other angles, there seems to be just enough space. Mind you, winch handles tilt a bit upwards.

But you can't turn on those primaries, while you're steering. That would be a correct statement. And that's a real nuisance, in my view.

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1 hour ago, Bryanjb said:

Moored next to us. 

E9772FE0-5D3F-4E61-85E6-4F38C4AEF7F7.jpeg

Where are you? Or I guess I should say where are they? That boat is just completely bad ass. Need to find some better photos for "cool boats".

Here's a link to photos. http://biekerboats.com/project/fujin/ The last sailing shot is my favorite.

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4 hours ago, Matagi said:

I think you can, from other angles, there seems to be just enough space. Mind you, winch handles tilt a bit upwards.

But you can't turn on those primaries, while you're steering. That would be a correct statement. And that's a real nuisance, in my view.

The older ones had tillers, much better in my opinion as you can operate the winches and the tiller at the same time.

rm-yachts-rm-yachts-rm-1060-288210901820

 

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2 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

Where are you? Or I guess I should say where are they? That boat is just completely bad ass. Need to find some better photos for "cool boats".

Here's a link to photos. http://biekerboats.com/project/fujin/ The last sailing shot is my favorite.

Currently in NE Harbour Maine. 

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21 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

Where are you? Or I guess I should say where are they? That boat is just completely bad ass. Need to find some better photos for "cool boats".

Here's a link to photos. http://biekerboats.com/project/fujin/ The last sailing shot is my favorite.

Its Fujin; and they are up in Maine or at least were up in Maine.

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Today, I learned of Mullet Boats.

Small, cute and massively overpowered. 

What's not to like?

 

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The name?

image.png.2bc17af9ba8cb64b95bcd091efc7dac8.png

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9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

The name?

image.png.2bc17af9ba8cb64b95bcd091efc7dac8.png

True. 

But did you see the cup they're racing after? Whoa. Very bling.

I'd have that haircut, if this was what's needed to win.

Gladly, it's not.

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15 hours ago, Matagi said:

Today, I learned of Mullet Boats.

Small, cute and massively overpowered. 

What's not to like?

 

Those guys would like the Chesapeake Log Canoes - w/the hiking boards, they might be able to carry even more sail! 

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Those guys would like the Chesapeake Log Canoes - w/the hiking boards, they might be able to carry even more sail! 

Like these guys?

real-deal-racing-1600.jpg

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14 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

The name?

image.png.2bc17af9ba8cb64b95bcd091efc7dac8.png

Confusing a mullet boat with a boat full of mullets...

Imp_5.jpg

Fast mullets!

- Stumbling

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8 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Those guys would like the Chesapeake Log Canoes - w/the hiking boards, they might be able to carry even more sail! 

Kiwis....

They look like friends and families crews but actually they are serious well trained crews and still quite casual about it!

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I nominate this

Quote

18th century river boat, build from historical archives. The local type "Yole of Poitou"

69009723_926366784379966_282469728073128

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I just came across the designs of André Mauric.

Here is Kertios III, the type is called a Clipper MC. Which would be my rap-name.

kertios_pr_s.jpeg

Yes, these chines are from 1973.

His boats look great. They even sailed a André Mauric trophy. Have a look here.

 

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Ti, to admire along with the Newport R.I waterfront. My first office in 1974 was in the white building with the 2 round eyes.

20190829_184617.jpg

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That building looks like a front loading washer/dryer combo. :D

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2 hours ago, Tanton Y_M said:

Ti, to admire along with the Newport R.I waterfront. My first office in 1974 was in the white building with the 2 round eyes.

20190829_184617.jpg

Ti is one of the greats.  Too bad there's a rib hanging off the stern, and not wooden ships boat

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Was on vacation in Maine last week, and spent a couple of days in Portland.  I "persuaded" my wife and daughter to do a two hour sail on a classic schooner in Casco Bay.  We had done this before, about eight years ago, and the two of them still (mildly) complain about how chilly it got and how much the boat heeled.  Nevertheless, they agreed to humor me and go again.

The winds were up, at 15-20 knots, and my wife nearly bailed.  But to her delight, she persevered.  Armed with sweatshirts and this time aboard Wendameen, a John Alden schooner built in 1912, we had one of the great sails of our times.  The winds were perfect, and we flew.  

I copped the first picture from the interweb as I didn't take any full boat shots.  The second is a picture I took that day.  We sailed with the full fore and main sails, and the fore staysail.  No jib.  85 feet from sprit to boom.  No winches, just two young crewmen sweating the sheets every time the Captain wanted an adjustment.  Wow.

Wendameen.jpg

WendameenAug 2019.jpg

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On 8/29/2019 at 11:01 PM, Matagi said:

I just came across the designs of André Mauric.

Here is Kertios III, the type is called a Clipper MC. Which would be my rap-name.

kertios_pr_s.jpeg

Yes, these chines are from 1973.

His boats look great. They even sailed a André Mauric trophy. Have a look here.

 

Believe it or not, It is a half tonner, chines were quite common in France during the 60s and early 70s. Mauric designed lot of great boats (Pen duick VI, Kriter 5, the original First 30. which is the boat that launched Bénéteau as a major yard...).

IOR boats from the early seventies were quite nice, I am not sure when and why it went downhill after.

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 Early IOR shapes were still heavily influenced by CCA rule and designers had not found the favorable corners of the new rule yet. All rating rules have/had their problems, which is what usually prompted the next rule.  CCA ended up with tiny, worthless mizzen sails, not even tall enuff for a good stsl. Best used to stabilize the navigator when taking a noon site.

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A few issues ago, Wooden Boat had a piece about Ed Burnett, a British designer who passed away a few years ago. Here is Panacea a 23 footer of his that was among the designs featured:

 

image.png.288c15be99c66e572a8d9708b71d2f8e.png

image.png.0936ebe9e793f952867b0b5fcf40d3aa.png

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On 9/2/2019 at 7:12 PM, Panoramix said:

Believe it or not, It is a half tonner, chines were quite common in France during the 60s and early 70s. Mauric designed lot of great boats (Pen duick VI, Kriter 5, the original First 30. which is the boat that launched Bénéteau as a major yard...).

IOR boats from the early seventies were quite nice, I am not sure when and why it went downhill after.

Because they were out designed by designers of subsequent IOR boats in the late seventies and 80s.   The interesting "corners" of the rule were explored resulting in boats that were faster at the same rating.

- Stumbling

 

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9 minutes ago, stumblingthunder said:

Because they were out designed by designers of subsequent IOR boats in the late seventies and 80s.   The interesting "corners" of the rule were explored resulting in boats that were faster at the same rating.

- Stumbling

 

I am no IOR expert, but I think that they were constantly tweaking the rules. Did they introduce some flaw in it at some point?

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1 hour ago, Panoramix said:

I am no IOR expert, but I think that they were constantly tweaking the rules. Did they introduce some flaw in it at some point?

It was more dealing with eliminating the flaws in the formula that created the prior advantage.   Then boats that were designed with that version of the rule were no longer favorable and were then on the market.   The newly tweaked rule formula would then have unintended advantages in other parts of the formula, which the new boat(s) would find.

It turned into a tail chase on spending a lot of money to get an advantage, and then selling the boats that were designed to that rule, after the rule was changed to close up the prior advantages.   So the sold boats become 2nd tier boats and the circle continues until folks with the money, say "hell with it, lets go try another rule or do one-design!"

So we then have a bunch of various types of IOR boats in PHRF, which prior were cruisers and racer-cruisers of the MORC type (which went the same cycle as the IOR rule,) which then say, "hell with it, lets go try something else, or just go cruising..."

Thus begat IMS, then ORC, then a cornucopia of one-designs of various sizes for inshore, offshore and round the buoys.

- Stumbling

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IMO the fundamental problem with IOR was that it was a measurement rule rather than a handicapping rule.

That automatically made it a development rule.

More than a few people think that the designers in charge of the rule - Stephens, Mull, Carter et.al. did it deliberately to create business for themselves outdesigning their prior boats.

Personally I think that's nothing but a Randumb level conspiracy theory - they were all men of integrity trying to do a difficult and thankless job for the betterment of the sport.

For a long time they succeeded too - sailboat racing was never bigger or more "offshore" than under IOR. It was the nautical equivalent of Le Mans but most boat racing now is more like short track oval racing.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

IMO the fundamental problem with IOR was that it was a measurement rule rather than a handicapping rule.

That automatically made it a development rule.

More than a few people think that the designers in charge of the rule - Stephens, Mull, Carter et.al. did it deliberately to create business for themselves outdesigning their prior boats.

Personally I think that's nothing but a Randumb level conspiracy theory - they were all men of integrity trying to do a difficult and thankless job for the betterment of the sport.

For a long time they succeeded too - sailboat racing was never bigger or more "offshore" than under IOR. It was the nautical equivalent of Le Mans but most boat racing now is more like short track oval racing.

At the time, rules like the IOR were seen as an alternative to a development  rule like the I14 dinghy or the 12 Meter rule, but it didnt work out that way in practice. I don't know exactly  why it went wrong. It was partly unrealistic expectations, partly more money being spent on design research, partly access to tank testing and computer modeling. 

In his autobiography, Olin Stephen's noted that his career spanned the change from design by intuition to design by mathematics. 

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9 hours ago, SemiSalt said:

At the time, rules like the IOR were seen as an alternative to a development  rule like the I14 dinghy or the 12 Meter rule, but it didnt work out that way in practice. I don't know exactly  why it went wrong. It was partly unrealistic expectations, partly more money being spent on design research, partly access to tank testing and computer modeling. 

In his autobiography, Olin Stephen's noted that his career spanned the change from design by intuition to design by mathematics. 

It went wrong when owners decided it was worth a couple hundred thousand dollars to have a new boat designed that was "faster" by some margin under the rule (which ever rule, IOR, MORC, IMS, IRC, CCA, ORC, the 12m rule, the 8 meter rule, the Spirit of Tradition "rule" etc, etc.)  Doesn't matter if its a measurement rule, or a development rule.  Doesn't matter if it has a "secret factor." Even One design is really no different.  People continue to spend huge money to get the smallest of potential advantages, in some notable cases, cheating if required (See the J/70 class for example, but I could mention any OD class).

To a certain group of (us) sailors, being first matters.  To them it's all that matters. And until that changes (and I doubt it will) NO rule will be able to withstand the pressure of unlimited budgets.  It's the only great thing about PHRF.  You can't design to it.  Instead, you have to become intimate with the committee...or be the committee, or buy a ton of sails from the guy on the committee....

We are an imperfect people.  I chose to race with my friends to have fun.  Sometimes, on occasion, I even make it to the podium...but being on the water with family and friends is more important to me than winning.  But that's just me.  That's one reason there are much better racing sailors than me...

 

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There was also a flow on effect from a successful boat, you were more likely to sell production boats based on a successful racer than other boats, most people were after racer / cruisers in those days.

 

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Woo-hoo.

Lead is soooo last year.....

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