Sailbydate

Coolboats to admire

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Check this guy out: http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/08/14/it-took-26-years-and-200k-but-mans-38-foot-wooden-sailboat-complete-with-jacuzzi-is-finally-seaworthy/

 

She's a little funky looking, but the guy put a jacuzzi in his stabbin cabin. He gets an A in my book

 

Yeah, neat boat but it took so long to build that he's too old to make proper use of the tub. Maybe a little Viagra......

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Great to see the family connections to the oyster age in this thread. The Maritime Museum preserves some of that history. Here's a skipjack being built there.

 

P1060354.JPG

 

Here are a few in the water.

 

P1060362.JPG

 

Oysters are mostly gone except where they are seeded in the Rappahannock and other tributaries. Still lots of crab pots to dodge in the bay.

 

That's the Rosie Parks - built side by side in Wingate w/the Lady Katie and the Martha Lewis - all of whom are still floating.

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We don't have any traditional craft like the lobster boat. We have plenty of cool workboats but they were never designed for speed. Not that I recall anyway.

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Only the guys in Maine are obsessed with fast lobsterboats. Everywhere else in the East, there is far less emphasis on that. Even in Maine, there is a difference between a working boat and a racing lobsterboat. And the offshore fishery is different from the inshore one. But you make an interesting observation--that of all the working motorboats out there, the lobsterboat stands out as "speedy" (along with the crew boats -- the old ones -- of the Gulf). Having grown up on the Bay for part of my childhood, I'd have to say that a deadrise tonging boat has pretty much the same speed characteristics to a lobsterboat--and in fact faster most of the time in operation.

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Lobster is a high value light weight product, as far as fisheries go, and the speed of the boat when actually hauling is zero, so the requirements favor a boat that will provide a decent platform when stopped and a quick one when underway. There is no need to pull gear along. The lobstermen are essentially competing with each other and the present trap limits (number of traps you are allowed to fish) are quite high, so fishing a lot of them quickly makes sense.

 

Watching a big offshore lobsterboat make speed without pounding in a Gulf of Maine swell is a joy- a number of smart people, generally the builders themselves, without any real training have refined a boat over the years that really does what it is supposed to do well. They are one of the pleasures of cruising in Maine.

 

The pots, not so much.

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Some of the waterman on the bay have monster engines in there skiffs and deadrises, they don't open them up all the time because that costs extra! One fella put his old truck-pull engine in his 30'er. Boat engine blew and that truck wasn't making any money sitting in the yard.

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The same reasons that Tucky just stated for lobster is also valid for the shrimpers around New Orleans. The warmer climate and the fact that the shrimp don't live for long after getting netted means that unless ice or refrigeration is used, the fisherman has to have a fast boat to get his catch back to market before spoiling. Hence the development of the Lafitte Skiff which are very fast using auto V8's and are sometimes raced like the Lobster Boats. They have a distinctive flared bow and unique trawl deck after which evolved from a permanent sorting tray that sort of morphed right onto the boat.

 

Lafitte-Skiff.gif

 

LafitteSkiffRiggedwithSkimmerNets-e.jpg

 

sidedeck1.jpg

 

I built a couple of these in my boatbuilding days in New Orleans and also produced two different sizes of plywood building frames for use in building C-Flex versions of a very traditional plank on frame design. Out of season fishermen would dome to our shop and load their pickups with a couple drums of poly resin, a roll of C-Flex planking, the tools and abrasives, fillers and acetone and everything they needed to build a 27' or 35' boat in their back yards. My boss (the designer) would get upset when reports would come back about these backyard builders adding 3" or even 6" to the frame spacing to get 42'ers from the frames for the 35'. I think what upset him was that they would perform better with the same power as the boat at 35'. Top end speed suffered but they would get on a plane earlier and carry a lot more shrimp (or white grouper...) The frames sets would get sold to the neighbors down the bayou and I think some of those frame sets had up to 4 boats built from them.

 

00W0W_iIpkQYEUhVE_600x450.jpg

 

C-Flex Skiff

 

frame.gif

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requirements favor a boat that will provide a decent platform when stopped and a quick one when underway. .

 

Sounds like the same requirements as the old Grand Banks fishing schooners.

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We don't have any traditional craft like the lobster boat. We have plenty of cool workboats but they were never designed for speed. Not that I recall anyway.

 

Coolidge rum runners???

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Great to see the family connections to the oyster age in this thread. The Maritime Museum preserves some of that history. Here's a skipjack being built there.

 

P1060354.JPG

 

Here are a few in the water.

 

P1060362.JPG

 

Oysters are mostly gone except where they are seeded in the Rappahannock and other tributaries. Still lots of crab pots to dodge in the bay.

 

That's the Rosie Parks - built side by side in Wingate w/the Lady Katie and the Martha Lewis - all of whom are still floating.

 

Those Skipjacks look like they would make a VERY cool daysailer for you and 50 of your closest friends. Are any of them used as "head boats" like the Maine schooners?

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We don't have any traditional craft like the lobster boat. We have plenty of cool workboats but they were never designed for speed. Not that I recall anyway.

 

Bob,

 

I think the later Columbia River Gillnetters come the closest to the lobster boats. They needed to get their catch to the canneries quickly in order to get the best price so speed was important. These led to the modern, fast, hard chine gillnetters in use today.

 

Back in the late '70s - early '80s my yacht club had one for a committee boat. It worked very well.

 

post-25831-0-58067500-1386880478_thumb.jpgpost-25831-0-90510500-1386880494_thumb.jpg

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I LOVE Lafitte skiffs!

 

I found a photo of the Lafitte Skiff that we had a mold for and built one out of our shop. It was called the Halter 31 and was briefly in production. Halter Marine had the mold but Bill Seemann had designed the boat and perhaps New Orleans Marine (Tommy Drefus/'Your Cheatin' Heart') had built the mold. They sent us a hull and deck and we but a full salon and cabin in the sportfisher style. I got sent to Alabama to pick up a molded FG skeg/tunnel that we spliced into the hull. The boat in this photo is close to the one we built. The Halter had more deadrise than the tradition Lafitte skiffs around Lake Pontchartrain.

 

DSCN2701.jpg

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Lobster is a high value light weight product, as far as fisheries go, and the speed of the boat when actually hauling is zero, so the requirements favor a boat that will provide a decent platform when stopped and a quick one when underway. There is no need to pull gear along. The lobstermen are essentially competing with each other and the present trap limits (number of traps you are allowed to fish) are quite high, so fishing a lot of them quickly makes sense.

 

Watching a big offshore lobsterboat make speed without pounding in a Gulf of Maine swell is a joy- a number of smart people, generally the builders themselves, without any real training have refined a boat over the years that really does what it is supposed to do well. They are one of the pleasures of cruising in Maine.

 

The pots, not so much.

 

Lobster boats are best given a wide berth when they're hauling their catch as they flit and wheel from one buoy to the next.

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"That's the Rosie Parks - built side by side in Wingate w/the Lady Katie and the Martha Lewis - all of whom are still floating. "

 

Noticed that Rosie Parks was just relaunched after a refit on cbmm.org.

 

"Those Skipjacks look like they would make a VERY cool daysailer for you and 50 of your closest friends. Are any of them used as "head boats" like the Maine schooners?"

 

Using the google, I found one that offers fishing for rockfish. Several skipjacks will take you and as many as fit on a 2 hour sail. A couple even dredge for oysters.

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Since powerboats are accepted in this thread, I'll voice admiration for the small kaiki fishing boats seen in harbors throughout Greece. They evolved from lateen-rigged sailing craft, but now are almost universally powered by small single-cylinder diesels. "Thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka ..."

 

sP1010010.JPG

 

sP1010035.JPG

 

sP1010039.JPG

 

sP1010043.JPG

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A classic with an American connection , Some of you guys might remember Thelma,Built here but spent a lot of her life in Hawaii and then I think San Diego? after the war. up until about ooo 2000 and something. 1898 build.

This is last weekend in the first of our club cruising races for the season.

 

IMG_4426.jpg

 

IMG_4442.jpg

 

IMG_4445.jpg

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A classic with an American connection , Some of you guys might remember Thelma,Built here but spent a lot of her life in Hawaii and then I think San Diego? after the war. up until about ooo 2000 and something. 1898 build.

This is last weekend in the first of our club cruising races for the season.

 

IMG_4426.jpg

 

IMG_4442.jpg

 

IMG_4445.jpg

Nice.

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Wow!! That "Thelma" is a very cool boat!!

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Since powerboats are accepted in this thread, I'll voice admiration for the small kaiki fishing boats seen in harbors throughout Greece. They evolved from lateen-rigged sailing craft, but now are almost universally powered by small single-cylinder diesels. "Thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka ..."

 

sP1010010.JPG

 

sP1010035.JPG

 

sP1010039.JPG

 

sP1010043.JPG

 

They are very cool and distinctive boats.

 

They are Caiques by the way "Keye ee kee - how's that for a little arrant pedantry?

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"That's the Rosie Parks - built side by side in Wingate w/the Lady Katie and the Martha Lewis - all of whom are still floating. "

 

Noticed that Rosie Parks was just relaunched after a refit on cbmm.org.

 

"Those Skipjacks look like they would make a VERY cool daysailer for you and 50 of your closest friends. Are any of them used as "head boats" like the Maine schooners?"

 

Using the google, I found one that offers fishing for rockfish. Several skipjacks will take you and as many as fit on a 2 hour sail. A couple even dredge for oysters.

IIRC, there is a good sized skipjack that does tourist sails (3 hour cruises) out of Baltimore's inner harbor (in the summer, anyway).

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That story of the Greek boats got me thinking: Lobsterboat--sail->power; Chesapeake deadrise--sail->power...maybe you'll find many of our favorite working powerboats have a strong sailing lineage? Curious about the lafitte's full history.

Through the '50s and '60s in Virginia (not sure about Maryland), you could tong for oysters from a powerboat, but you could only dredge for oysters under sail.

.

The skipjacks had no engines, but most had a 10-15' 'tender' that had a car or truck engine in it, and a huge prop. they acted as pushboats - a lot of the skipjacks had fittings built onto one quarter or the other that the pushboat would fit into. Couldn't easily put them on the stern - the barn door rudder was back there and it had to have room to swing.

.

The pushboat would be used to get them out and back quicker than sailing, and they could still dredge under sail.

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A classic with an American connection , Some of you guys might remember Thelma,Built here but spent a lot of her life in Hawaii and then I think San Diego? after the war. up until about ooo 2000 and something. 1898 build.

This is last weekend in the first of our club cruising races for the season.

 

IMG_4426.jpg

 

IMG_4442.jpg

 

IMG_4445.jpg

 

Just because there is a bowsprit, does not mean that the foredeck guy has to spend the entire day there.

 

Get off the bow!!!

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If we're on the subject of fishing boats, From the Thames Estuary comes the Essex Smack. Big rig as they used to haul a beam trawl, often in the winter as their crews were off sailing on the big yachts in the summer.

 

EssexSmack01.jpg

 

EssexSmack02.jpg

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Since powerboats are accepted in this thread, I'll voice admiration for the small kaiki fishing boats seen in harbors throughout Greece. They evolved from lateen-rigged sailing craft, but now are almost universally powered by small single-cylinder diesels. "Thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka, thunka ..."

 

sP1010010.JPG

 

sP1010035.JPG

 

sP1010039.JPG

 

sP1010043.JPG

 

They are very cool and distinctive boats.

 

They are Caiques by the way "Keye ee kee - how's that for a little arrant pedantry?

 

In Greek, it's "καΐκι".

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If we're on the subject of fishing boats, From the Thames Estuary comes the Essex Smack. Big rig as they used to haul a beam trawl, often in the winter as their crews were off sailing on the big yachts in the summer.

 

EssexSmack01.jpg

 

EssexSmack02.jpg

tres cool!

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Early oyster boats in the Chesapeake were log canoes. Not too stable but there are races:

 

p1020370.jpg

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That’s a lot of stress on that hull.

There's a lot of stress on the fellow sat on the end of the plank. He's going to spend hours sat on an uncomfortable plank with the fat kid in the red hat leaning on his nuts. Perhaps he's on a different plank? Either way it looks like a very uncomfortable way to go not very fast with a massive potential downside. In that case it's the chubby bird leaning on the fat kid in the red hat. Either way there aren't a lot of people in that picture I'd want leaning on my nuts for the afternoon.

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That’s a lot of stress on that hull.

 

The reason they are called log canoes is because much of the hull is made of a several large logs drifted together and hewn into shape in much the same way an ancient dugout canoe is made. That;s why a log canoe won't twist itself to destruction like a conventional carvel planked and framed boat.

 

Here is a fascinating slide show showing how it was done. Linky

 

15.jpg

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Either way it looks like a very uncomfortable way to go not very fast with a massive potential downside.

 

Isn't that the whole point? Why else go sailing, methinks.

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You can see the downside of log canoe racing at about 2:40 in this cool video. I'll bet no one is yelling starboard.

 

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That’s a lot of stress on that hull.

There's a lot of stress on the fellow sat on the end of the plank. He's going to spend hours sat on an uncomfortable plank with the fat kid in the red hat leaning on his nuts. Perhaps he's on a different plank? Either way it looks like a very uncomfortable way to go not very fast with a massive potential downside. In that case it's the chubby bird leaning on the fat kid in the red hat. Either way there aren't a lot of people in that picture I'd want leaning on my nuts for the afternoon.

 

If it was the America's Cup, they'd call it "dynamic stability control."

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You can see the downside of log canoe racing at about 2:40 in this cool video. I'll bet no one is yelling starboard.

 

 

 

I like their solution to the loss of lift at the top of a triangular sail: just add another little sail up there!

 

It would be even better if the little sail had yet another on top, like a wedding cake of sails.

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But hey! Most everything floats! Granted I only had the pleasure once, but no nut crunching then.......

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Early oyster boats in the Chesapeake were log canoes. Not too stable but there are races:

 

p1020370.jpg

 

Hike you bitches!

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Sometimes the movable ballast doesn't move fast enough in a log canoe.

 

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Bermuda Fitted Dinghy version: Hike and Bail bitches

 

Trott-Cup-Dinghy-Race-St-Georges-Harbour

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Either way it looks like a very uncomfortable way to go not very fast with a massive potential downside.

 

Isn't that the whole point? Why else go sailing, methinks.

At great expense I'll wager. Wait! It's been done.

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Early oyster boats in the Chesapeake were log canoes. Not too stable but there are races:

 

p1020370.jpg

 

Tacking and jibing this must be like a Chinese fire drill.

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You can see the downside of log canoe racing at about 2:40 in this cool video. I'll bet no one is yelling starboard.

 

Wow.

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how much sail area can you fit to a small boat????

 

from the historic 18ft skiff archive: gretel II

 

yandy87580.jpg

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how much sail area can you fit to a small boat????

 

from the historic 18ft skiff archive: gretel II

 

yandy87580.jpg

 

That's the skiff Brittania.

 

Gretel II was a twelve meter.

 

You can see the canvas lee cloth popped up on the leeward side to give the bailer boy an even chance.

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Tricky:

Really?

Well it looks like BRITTANIA is wearing GRETEL'S clothes. What do you call that sail hanging off the gaff? I'd call it the "whizzer".

 

Hope all is well with you and yours.

Looking forward to having Advocate here on Monday.

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Tricky:

Really?

Well it looks like BRITTANIA is wearing GRETEL'S clothes. What do you call that sail hanging off the gaff? I'd call it the "whizzer".

 

Hope all is well with you and yours.

Looking forward to having Advocate here on Monday.

Studding Sail?

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How about this one. Talk about laundry day.

post-76289-0-57345200-1386972984.jpeg

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Actually it's called a `ringtail'. I don't know if that's a reference to the ringtail possum or not.

 

There was illegal betting aboard the steamers/ferries that followed the racing. The large insignias on the sails helped the spectator/punters follow the boats.

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how much sail area can you fit to a small boat????

 

from the historic 18ft skiff archive: gretel II

 

yandy87580.jpg

 

That "flap" on the main is just about the weirdest sail I've ever seen. Makes bloopers and tallboys look downright scientific.

 

Why isn't the crew's underwear hanging there somewhere?

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Why isn't the crew's underwear hanging there somewhere?

 

Decency, good man! This isn't the colonies!

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The crews raced for prize money and when there's betting on the races there may have been other pressures on the crew.

 

I'm sure they would have hung their underwear out had there not been ladies present.

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The crews raced for prize money and when there's betting on the races there may have been other pressures on the crew.

 

I'm sure they would have hung their underwear out had there not been ladies present.

:)

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Looks pretty similar to some of the old autoboats. Like this one by Chas Desmond. The Solution to high(er) speed with a low power-to-weight ratio plant hasn't changed much. Looks like the Irens may have a bit more beam and a less aggressive forefoot. Hell, even the styling hasn't changed much.

YELfs3H.jpg

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That illustration is from the July 1904 edition of The Rudder.

 

The weirdest thing about her has got to be the rudder, which is above the prop-shaft. (It almost disappears in the drawing.) I can't imagine she steered all that well.

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Milo:

That detail does not surprise me although I agree with you. The blade area looks very small. For another really weird rudder prop shaft setup Google the plans for BABY BOOTLEGGER. Although in concept it is the reverse of the Desmond boat with the rudder directly aft of the prop. I am awed at what the old guys could do casting bronze. I'll see if I can dig up an image.

 

1924BabyBootlegger_zpsd027e527.jpg

 

BABY BOOTLEGGER belongs in my own Top Ten Boats of All Time. I have seen the original lines plan and it is a work of art.

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So a step that close to the prop, would it introduce air in the prop stream, or did it effectively make the prop surface piercing?

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Some more history, seemingly contradictory to the 1924 Gold Cup win, unless Baby Bootlegger wasn't a "real" step hull.

 

http://www.homewoodboatworks.com/page6.html

 

Stepped hulls were apparently conceived in the 1870's but it is not clear whether some of the first boats with stepped hulls could develop the speed necessary to demonstrate the "hydroplane" advantage. Displacement hulls would dominate boat racing until about 1908. Once there was enough power, from a light enough power plant, boats began to plane (ca 1908-1910). Once on plane, it became increasingly clear that a step increased hull speed by "releasing" the water's grip on the bottom of the boat. There is simply less surface area in contact with the water at speed. The effect was noticeable by 1910-1911. The first stepped-hull boat to win the Gold Cup was MIT II in 1911. The effect was quite significant. MIT II was decidedly faster than the previous winner, with less than 50% of the power. The "fast-steppers" would dominate boat racing for decades.


Some race boat authorities and historians have pronounced the stepped-hull to be the single most important development in hull design. Stepped-hull race boats worked so well, particularly for Gar Wood, that in 1922 the American Power Boat Association ("APBA"), the rule-making authority that defines Gold Cup entry requirements, outlawed any form of step in the hull as an unfair advantage over a so-called gentleman's race boat. So Gar Wood focused on other, unlimited, races like the Harmsworth. Stepped hulls were allowed. There were no limits on power. Gar Wood was unbeatable. He took the Harmsworth Trophy home nine times.


The APBA finally relented in 1929 and amended the rules to once again allow stepped-hull hydroplanes to compete for the Gold Cup. Hornet II was one of only 10 stepped-hull Gar Wood's built between 1929 and 1934. Thus, the step in Hornet II was designed and built by Gar Wood after 10 or more years of practical experience with stepped hulls. Most importantly, it was built with the renewed expectation that the owner may indeed power the boat to compete for the Gold Cup.

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That boat 'Britannia' is lovely, and I hate to be picky, but the Union Jack in the flag (I think that is the 'Red Ensign') is upside down.

 

In any Union Jack, in the top left corner, the white diagonal strip is on top of the red diagonal (narrow is below). In the picture, the broad white stripe is below the red diagonal and the narrow white stripe is above. That means the flag is upside down.

 

Unless I am wrong.

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That boat 'Britannia' is lovely, and I hate to be picky, but the Union Jack in the flag (I think that is the 'Red Ensign') is upside down.

 

In any Union Jack, in the top left corner, the white diagonal strip is on top of the red diagonal (narrow is below). In the picture, the broad white stripe is below the red diagonal and the narrow white stripe is above. That means the flag is upside down.

 

Unless I am wrong.

 

Out of respect to the Queen we fly it upside down so it looks the right way up to her. -_-

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That boat 'Britannia' is lovely, and I hate to be picky, but the Union Jack in the flag (I think that is the 'Red Ensign') is upside down.

 

In any Union Jack, in the top left corner, the white diagonal strip is on top of the red diagonal (narrow is below). In the picture, the broad white stripe is below the red diagonal and the narrow white stripe is above. That means the flag is upside down.

 

Unless I am wrong.

 

Out of respect to the Queen we fly it upside down so it looks the right way up to her. -_-

Ha, ha. Very good. :)

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So a step that close to the prop, would it introduce air in the prop stream, or did it effectively make the prop surface piercing?

 

She's not a stepped hydroplane. That stern is pointy. As far as the prop immersion, consider the angle the water makes. There is a contemporary motorboat on the market with a patent on that overhang--even though it is on Baby Bootlegger. (The patent office has lost most of its marbles the past 10 years).

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BABY BOOTLEGGER belongs in my own Top Ten Boats of All Time. I have seen the original lines plan and it is a work of art.

 

Hard to argue with that. She just looks so... right. Fast, elegant, the epitome of 20's style.

 

As for the rudder, scanning through some old Rudder articles I noticed a few other speed launches with that same configuration. It appears to have been a not uncommon detail on early high speed launches. It's clever (gets the rudder up, out of the way, moves the rudder post forward for a reasonable length tiller, etc.) if you ignore the hydrodynamics of it.

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Well, it's a double-ender at the waterline, but the underwater profile is a little different.

 

Babu_Bootlegger_construction_iso_dwg.JPG

 

It just looks a little strange chopped off like that.

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I'll say.

Maybe they needed that stern just to get the running gear back there. I just can't figure out what it did for hull performance. It just dragged along the surface.

Looks cool though.

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If they tried to launch that at Tofino they would be looking for their naughty bits within 2 waves. I do like her outfit.

 

It's tiny and the sections are so detailed. WTF are they going to do with that? It's like a catamaSUP with a sail.

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Looks like the great grandfather of the old Hobie 12 Monocat from the 70's.

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Slug - how do they maneuver them enough for boat-to-boat racing ? What is The Trick ?

 

Looks a fair bit bigger than a Mono-Cat to me, - close to a Wave but I'd like some rudders, please.

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Hey Kim,

 

Post a pic of that boat that's now the cover photo for the NW School on Facebook.

I don't have any pictures of that vessel.

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Slug - how do they maneuver them enough for boat-to-boat racing ? What is The Trick ?

 

Looks a fair bit bigger than a Mono-Cat to me, - close to a Wave but I'd like some rudders, please.

They steer with a combination of the skipper shifting his weight fore and aft and sail trim.

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Slug - how do they maneuver them enough for boat-to-boat racing ? What is The Trick ?

 

Looks a fair bit bigger than a Mono-Cat to me, - close to a Wave but I'd like some rudders, please.

They steer with a combination of the skipper shifting his weight fore and aft and sail trim.

 

The were written up in WoodenBoat somewhere in the past. Another boat that was raced with no rudder was the St. Lawrence Skiff, albeit a monohull.

 

Oh and of course the ice scooters of Great South Bay.

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Hey Kim,

 

Post a pic of that boat that's now the cover photo for the NW School on Facebook.

I don't have any pictures of that vessel.

 

 

This one?

 

1512541_652553224767760_1789797502_n.jpg

 

1185287_10151882240466285_1150583370_n.j

 

AZULITA, the first Sentinel-24, designed by Stephens Waring Yacht Design, and built in 2013 by instructor Sean Kooman and students in the Contemporary program at the Northwest School of Wooden Boatbuilding. — at Wooden Boat Festival 2013.

 

http://youtu.be/wrrwdKmmZps

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