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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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Sailbydate

Coolboats to admire

8,514 posts in this topic

I'm surfe somebody can explain why I like these so much, but McVay Bluenoses just look and feel right, and are way too affordable.

When they are pretty, they are very pretty...

hanahoutwo.jpg

 

and when they are scruffy, they are still pretty:

 

 

blogpicsjune2012+162.jpg

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BLJ"

Because those boats just look right and they take us to a time where we didn't care about ratios and VMG. We just cared about excersizing our whims.

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BLJ"

Because those boats just look right and they take us to a time where we didn't care about ratios and VMG. We just cared about excersizing our whims.

 

I still live in that time! Going sailing in my fat, underpowered little catboat this morning, with its flat slabs of metal for underwater foils. VMG? I'll make it back to the boat ramp at some point!

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Ok, so long as no one is reading this thread anymore I'll give your question a shot.

 

Planar sheers don't work with double enders. Period.

In order to keep a canoe stern sheer planar you need a lot of spring aft and you end up with a boat that looks like a mallard in heat.

I have said this many times but I always have a hard time saying it clearly:

The sheer spring in profile has to be proportionate to the distance the sheer is travelling in plan view.

So with a Perry type canoe stern for instance the plan view shows the sheer tucking in very dramatically in the last few statuions in order to maintain volume aft.

To keep that sheer planar I would have to really "swoop" or kink up the sheer in profile through that particular area. It just looks stupid.

 

Whereas, with a transom stern boat the sheer in plan view in both the bow and the stern is almost a straight line and sometimes is exactly a straight line.

This means the sheer spring can be evenely distributed down the hull flattening out slightly as it goes to the ends.

 

Or, think of a really fat 40' double ender. Really fat. If you measured the length of the actual sheer this 40'er sherline might be 48' ( I'm guessing). That's a lot of sheer length so this boat can use a lot of spring.

 

Now take a 40' very skinny, very transom sterned boat. This sheer length might be only 42' ( I'm guessing again). If you gave this skinny boat a lot of sheer spring it would look like a banana. The skinny boat gets far less sheer spring than does the fat double ender due to its shorter sheerline.

 

If you were in the Office kdh I'd pull down a coupe of models and you'd understand in seconds.

 

As always, thanks for your patience, Bob.

 

I see clearly the issue with a double ender with a planar sheer having too much spring aft, and as you write the more you tuck in to maintain volume aft the more the pointy end wants to spring up and look ridiculous if it's staying in a plane.

 

My difficulty was with how the aesthetics relate to the geometry on that fat 40'er with a lot of spring. I think I'm seeing it now: There is a lot of curve to the sheer in plan view so the spring, the amount of curvature in profile, has to be greater than with the skinny boat. The spring has to be proportional to the curve of the sheer in plan view.

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Yep, that's it Keith.

 

If I think a planar sheer will work on a new design I tell the program, "Give me a planar sheer." The program then asks me to define the coordinates of the ends of the plane and then give an angle for the plane. I can adjust these variables and see if I can get a nice looking planar sheer. If I can't I will go with a sheer drawn on the computer by eye using second moments ( handily laid out by the program) to insure fairness.

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Fine Fast but show us an example please. Talk is cheap. I'm curious as to what your work looks like.

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Fast, what are your criteria for "sweet and clean and beautiful" from all viewpoints?

 

My definition might be "either concave or convex but not both" from all viewpoints. This is true if and only if the sheer is planar, and is not necessarily boring, to my thinking.

 

Even, as Bob describes it, the deviation from planar aft required for a double ender is in a way not any more of a deviation than with a standard transom, in that its flat top doesn't lie in the same plane as the sheer either.

 

big2.jpg

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I agree with kdh. A nice planar sheer on the right boat should never be boring. I think German Frers cinsistantly drew the prettiest sheers. There were always understated and elegant. I bet he probably never gave any thought to planar or non planar. I think it was something he just felt. Non planar sheer can be very interesting kind of like a skinny gal with huge boobs. Interesting? Sure but not a pretty picture in total.

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Please see above skinny gal with huge boobs. Non-planar sheers are not as bad as I thought.

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My definition might be "either concave or convex but not both" from all viewpoints. This is true if and only if the sheer is planar, and is not necessarily boring, to my thinking.

 

So all those sheerlines by Watson and Fife and Herreshoff that were drawn before the planar sheer was conceptualized won't do?

 

In my imaginary history of yacht design, some designer who didn't quite trust his eye in drawing sheers noted that some lovely vessel presented a very straight sheer when heeled and seen from windward (as Bob noted in a picture above). So he worked out a sheer that looked straight at a certain angle of heel, and behold, it was OK. So he told his friends how clever he was. But it's really just a mechanical method that gives good results, except when it doesn't.

 

And if I were a designer, I'd be all for it because, although I can imagine a line in 3-D, I don't have the sense of space that would allow me to get it down on paper.

 

Even, as Bob describes it, the deviation from planar aft required for a double ender is in a way not any more of a deviation than with a standard transom, in that its flat top doesn't lie in the same plane as the sheer either.

 

Except that in a double-ender, the rapid rise at the stern is visible, but the transom-sterned boat, it's virtual and invisible.

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Did I say all sheers should be planar? Please see above skinny gal with huge boobs.

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Yeah, sailboats are easy. Like falling off a log. That's why today you see so many really beauitiful sailboats.

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From one of the great masters:

 

Non-planar and beautiful:

 

Yeah, sailboats are easy. Like falling off a log. That's why today you see so many really beauitiful sailboats.

 

LOL Bob as in easy to get a sweet sheerline with a planar sheer! Hehe.

 

That's a nice example of how a sheer can look both convex and concave some some angles, exactly what kdh said he didn't like.

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On a power boat with a lot of flare in the bow a planar sheer will looklike it is flipping up radically at he bow. That is where I have used a modified planar sheer with some succes. Seen in profile, as the sheer approaches the bow I will gradually straighten it out. It looks nice if done right.

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Yep, that's it Keith.

 

If I think a planar sheer will work on a new design I tell the program, "Give me a planar sheer." The program then asks me to define the coordinates of the ends of the plane and then give an angle for the plane. I can adjust these variables and see if I can get a nice looking planar sheer. If I can't I will go with a sheer drawn on the computer by eye using second moments ( handily laid out by the program) to insure fairness.

 

Quick question Bob:

 

Isn't a planar sheer's shape in profile determined in part by the beam of the hull at that point? Do you have a hull developed and then strike the sheer line?

 

When you say you use second moments (do you mean derivatives?) to develop the sheer, how does that work?

 

Cheers

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You guys picking on me? Do I need to post a picture of the red Ferrari? You want some S's?

 

P30132%20004.jpg

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Milo:

Yes, beam and distribution of beam plays a roll in how you design the sheer spring.

No, I usually start with a rough sheerline and refine from there.

 

Powerboats are a totaly different animals. Jose's company designs some beautiful powerboats. They have sheers nailed.

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Yes, beam and distribution of beam plays a roll in how you design the sheer spring.

 

If I have this figured right, if you try to put a planar sheer on a boat with a round stern, the sheerline in profile will go tangent to vertical at the stern. That's not usually a look people are interested in.

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Milo:

Yes, beam and distribution of beam plays a roll in how you design the sheer spring.

No, I usually start with a rough sheerline and refine from there.

 

Powerboats are a totaly different animals. Jose's company designs some beautiful powerboats. They have sheers nailed.

 

Thanks Bob. I appreciate that.

 

Nails? We don't use no stinkin' nails!

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Yeah, sailboats are easy. Like falling off a log. That's why today you see so many really beauitiful sailboats.

 

Here's how it happens: I like to write about planar sheer, and when I do I know Bob has my back. Thanks for that, Bob. Anyway, I write. Things happen, and Bob comes up with the "falling off a log" reference while being predictably Bob. I think, "falling off a log?"

 

The fucking amazing thing: I'm reading to Adele tonight and I find myself reading this:

 

Image0032_zps9c081c89.jpg

 

Anyone know, other than Bob, what I was reading?

 

I'll never be quite the same.

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That said, I did spec an outboard in my "ultimate 21'er" I drew for myself.

 

 

Hi Bob,

 

I went everywhere looking for a drawing of this boat, forums, blogs etc but I couldn't find anything. You may have posted something before but would you mind if we had a `stickybeak' at a drawing of this boat?

 

Here you go Tricky, I dont know how we started with that topic name??

 

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=83291&hl=%2Btarget+%2Bmarket

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You can't make a planar sheer in every case. They are much easier to fit onto sailboats. Not so on many other boats.

 

Take lobsterboats for instance. Cape Island or Jonesport, doesn't matter. Never planar. Some are very beautiful. Many other commercial vessels same way. The requirements of the design make a planar sheer impossible.

 

Tom Fexas designed many non-planar sheers.

 

 

Tom Fexas ? His work is some of the most consistently strange-looking stuff I've ever seen ! I wouldn't go so far as to call his work ugly, but...wait a minute, yes I would...those Midnight Lace powerboats are mud-fence ugly.

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Great Red:

I would go along with you on the Fexas designs. I thought MIDNIGHT LACE was a bit of a cartoon but people liked it and Fexas built his career around it. Good for him. But it didn't work for me.

I think we may be in a small group here. When I was a kid my favorite poiwerboats were the Huckins Fairform Flyers. They looked like small PT boats.

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Here you go Tricky, I dont know how we started with that topic name??

 

http://forums.sailin...+target +market

 

Thanks for that Paps..

 

 

 

I just thought I'd post photos of the boats Great Red and Bob have mentioned... The `interesting' Midnight Lace (personally I'd rather chew my arm off..) and three Huckins models.

post-14496-0-78196200-1364064201_thumb.jpg

post-14496-0-25964000-1364064219_thumb.gif

post-14496-0-56203100-1364064230_thumb.jpg

post-14496-0-05566500-1364064239_thumb.jpg

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Oh Yeah, the Huckins model really do it for me. I had a client for a 69'er once who had owned a Huckins.

I look at the Huckins boats and they say, "I mean business."

I look at MIDNIGHT LACE and it says, "Would you put a little umbrella in my drink."

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Here you go Tricky, I dont know how we started with that topic name??

 

http://forums.sailin...+target +market

 

Thanks for that Paps..

 

 

 

I just thought I'd post photos of the boats Great Red and Bob have mentioned... The `interesting' Midnight Lace (personally I'd rather chew my arm off..) and three Huckins models.

 

Hmmm... I like the Midnight Lace better than that Sporstman, which seems clunky, plain, and pretty useless.

 

Tha second Huckins appears to have indoor furniture outdoors, but I do like examples 2 and 4 in your post, except for the boxy bench forward where it seems you are supposed to lean back and relax with a wiper blade in your back.

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The windows on the Midnight Lace looks like a grumpy Columbo peering at you with his good eye.

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For Powerboats, maybe the coolest, or the ugliest, or both, ever, has to be the Hickman Sea Sled.

An early prototype of the design, at Mystic Seaport:

 

M. Mertens has plans for an updated version of the sea sled, it also comes with original sea sled plans as well

 

http://www.bateau.co...18#.UU5stRwjH8M

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Tom:

I agree. The huckins sport fish does look clunky but the other two look sweet.

Always loved the Sea Sled. Never seen one.

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The sailing version of the Hickman sea sled is the Skylark. Isn't the M20 also tunnel hulled? (Never seen one personally):

 

Yep

 

M20 suffered from too much wetted surface area; notoriously slow in light air and not considered fast enough to be a "real scow" by the cognoscenti. More stable though and easier to steer (I think they have bigger centerline rudders)

 

The Skylark was a really cool boat, there was a racing class of them at our club way back when. I sailed them fairly often; their problems mostly stemmed from cheap manufacture. Heavy, very flexy mast, flate plate rudder & bilgeboards. Building the hull a couple hundred pounds lighter (I'm not kidding) and putting real foils under it would have made quite a nice boat.

 

FB- Doug

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For Powerboats, maybe the coolest, or the ugliest, or both, ever, has to be the Hickman Sea Sled.

An early prototype of the design, at Mystic Seaport:

 

Very cool boats. Hickman had sea sled running at close to 50 knots offshore way back in the day. They were also the first boats fitted with surface piercing propellers.

 

If I remember correctly, the first aircraft carrier was a Hickman sea sled as well. They bolted a plane to the deck and would go full bore into the wind so the plane could take off. Wasn't very practical, as you couldn't land the plane on one, and you still needed a fair bit of wind for take off.

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For Powerboats, maybe the coolest, or the ugliest, or both, ever, has to be the Hickman Sea Sled.

An early prototype of the design, at Mystic Seaport:

 

Very cool boats. Hickman had sea sled running at close to 50 knots offshore way back in the day. They were also the first boats fitted with surface piercing propellers.

 

If I remember correctly, the first aircraft carrier was a Hickman sea sled as well. They bolted a plane to the deck and would go full bore into the wind so the plane could take off. Wasn't very practical, as you couldn't land the plane on one, and you still needed a fair bit of wind for take off.

 

http://www.eaglespeak.us/2008/09/sunday-ship-history-hickmans-sea-sleds.html

 

That's a part of design history I knew nothing about. thanks for that.

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Sea-Sleds were a classic example of 'out of the box thinking'. It just takes the V-hull planing surface and inverts it so the bow wake/wash is convergent instead of divergent and manages to recover some of that lost energy rather than just sending out to the sides. The comment that Fast made about needing non-trip chines is very valid and the lack of banking in a turn is another real issue. The concept does have merit however and led the way to hull forms like that of the classic Boston Whaler (Ray Hunt) that attempts to recover some of that energy in the bow 'swash' yet mitigate its tendency to attentuate pounding with an additional V-hull on the centerline. I think that the 'tunnel hull' offshore catamarans that were pioneered by Don Aronow essentially were a Sea Sled with non-tripping outer chines. Funny thing is that is not how Don arrived at that configuration, but that is another story that I will share when I don't have to go tend to my Sunday afternoon BBQ on the grill!

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The ocean racer industry is full of great stories, some of them actually true. Can't wait for whatever Rasputin has in mind.

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I just noticed that the link to the skinny gal with huge boobs, to bring the conversation back to non-planar sheer, is broken. Here she is.

 

big2_zpsa64fb269.jpg

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Sea-Sleds were a classic example of 'out of the box thinking'. It just takes the V-hull planing surface and inverts it so the bow wake/wash is convergent instead of divergent and manages to recover some of that lost energy rather than just sending out to the sides. The comment that Fast made about needing non-trip chines is very valid and the lack of banking in a turn is another real issue. The concept does have merit however and led the way to hull forms like that of the classic Boston Whaler (Ray Hunt) that attempts to recover some of that energy in the bow 'swash' yet mitigate its tendency to attentuate pounding with an additional V-hull on the centerline. I think that the 'tunnel hull' offshore catamarans that were pioneered by Don Aronow essentially were a Sea Sled with non-tripping outer chines. Funny thing is that is not how Don arrived at that configuration, but that is another story that I will share when I don't have to go tend to my Sunday afternoon BBQ on the grill!

 

It's a shame that Hickman was so protective of his patent. If I remember correctly Hunt used an additional centerline hull on the Boston Whaler to avoid patent problems. (Hunt had some hydrodynamic justifications as well as the center hull reduces the aeration of the water seen by a center-line propeller, but there were a number of designs around that time which all basically modified sea sleds - modified to avoid litigation.) His over-protection probably is responsible for the obscurity of the type. The sea sleds had some idiosyncrasies. Although the surface piercing propellers were a success, the side plate rudders weren't. Hickman was extremely concerned about drag. He liked to say that cutting through water at 50 knots was like cutting through hard cheese at 3 knots.

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Thanks kdh for bringing the thread back to something we are all interested in.

Some needs to dig up a hunky guy for Booms. Maybe this one of Max wil work.

 

Thanks kdh for bringing the thread back to something we are all interested in.

Someone needs to dig up a hunky guy for Booms. Maybe this one of Max wil work.

post-2980-0-86377500-1364230599_thumb.jpg

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Before the pics of Ferrari and boobs i thought this thread should include Folkboats and IF-boats. Now i have no idea what we should be looking at next. TP52s ?

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Bac:

I like TP52's. I pretty much like any box rule boats. You can learn a lot when the designers are given a box to work in.

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Before the pics of Ferrari and boobs i thought this thread should include Folkboats and IF-boats. Now i have no idea what we should be looking at next. TP52s ?

Why don't you show us a boat YOU admire, 'baccara'? Both Folkboats and TP52's are cool IMO - so whatever boat you'd like to float.

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Ok, this was a tough call... i felt like posting pictures of Jack Black wearing stretchy pants (remember Nacho Libre ?), Ker11.3 or several TP52s and GP42s. However, here we've got some pics of IF-boat.

 

IF stands for 'International Folkboat', and it could be described as a slightly modernized derivative of a Folkboat that most of posters here probably recognize as there is/was a fleet of Folkboats in SF Bay area, i think.

 

IF-boats were mostly produced in Sweden in the 1970's and quite strongly built in GRP. IF is slightly longer and is a little finer forward than Folkboat. It also weighs a bit more and keel is also heavier, 53% of total displacement i my memory serves me right. It carries a genoa whereas Folkboat has a jib. IF boat has no lapstake imitation like the glass versions of the Folkboat and due to its larger coachroof it is less cramped inside, but still very small compared to today's standards. Contessa 26 is very similar to IF-boat i think. IF also has active OD fleet in Sweden, Folkboat of course has OD fleets in most of Nordic countries.

 

To me, the coolness of this boat is not the speed (although even 5 knots seems like a nice progress when you are sitting so close to water), but the practicality, timelss elegance and how well it sails and handles. Also, nowadays they can be bought quite cheaply in Scandinavia, a perfect beginner boat. Same apply also for Folkboats, of course. IF-boats have crossed North Sea countless times, crossed Biscay and Atlantic and if i recall correcly one example is cruising somewhere in Pacific.

 

I do most of my sailing in quite different boats than IF (mostly racing), but i cannot seem to force myself to get rid of my IF, even if it does not get enough attention and TLC nowadays. Mine is the blue one in the second pic.

post-30409-0-60560400-1364410002_thumb.jpg

post-30409-0-46404800-1364410070_thumb.jpg

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She's a great looking little boat, Bac. And that looks to be a serious seaway running along that breakwater, in that first pic! I also love those original Scandinavian Folkboats, with their lapstrake (clinker) planking. A enduring and pleasing design for sure. Nice example below.

post-76289-0-84557800-1364412195_thumb.jpg

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She's a great looking little boat, Bac. And that's looks to be a serious seaway running along that breakwater, in that first pic!

 

Yes, that's what it can be in Baltic sea during Autumn storm. Here's a couple more.

post-30409-0-30840900-1364412305_thumb.jpg

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post-30409-0-85144800-1364412407_thumb.jpg

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For Powerboats, maybe the coolest, or the ugliest, or both, ever, has to be the Hickman Sea Sled.

An early prototype of the design, at Mystic Seaport:

 

I love the Sea Sleds - Albert Hickman, IMHO, was way ahead of his time - slab sides, surface-piercing props. Isn't the Boston Whaler hull design an evolution of Hickman's sea sled?

 

oops - reminder to self - read the whole thread before replying to a post from several days ago.. .

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...

 

I do most of my sailing in quite different boats than IF (mostly racing), but i cannot seem to force myself to get rid of my IF, even if it does not get enough attention and TLC nowadays. Mine is the blue one in the second pic.

 

That's called the prison-o-matic coefficient. As the value approaches 1, your chances of escaping approach zero.

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Here's a Coolboat. Foiling moths are cool anyway, but adding a wing sail? How cool is that? Wouldn't want to crash land it though!

post-76289-0-56794800-1364518619_thumb.jpg

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Sailby:

That is the ultimate in sailing cool.

 

I agree with you. But I'm 66 years old and I'm not sure I can handle that boat. I like to think I can. Maybe I can. I'm pretty certain I can.

 

But nobody is going to bring one to the beach for me to try out.

I'm pretty sure I could do that. That guy makes it look easy.

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Sailby:

That is the ultimate in sailing cool.

 

I agree with you. But I'm 66 years old and I'm not sure I can handle that boat. I like to think I can. Maybe I can. I'm pretty certain I can.

 

But nobody is going to bring one to the beach for me to try out.

I'm pretty sure I could do that. That guy makes it look easy.

 

Ha, ha. I'm not far behind you at 62, Bob and I'm damned sure I can't handle a foiling month (as in flying gybes and tacks, especially). But I'd sure like to give it a go!. Here's a guy 'a bit closer to our ages' - so sure, why not, eh? Check out that one-hand style! He's just too cool as well. :)

post-76289-0-47097400-1364523489_thumb.jpg

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Love the "Cosworth" label! But it does not appear to be powered by a Cosworth motor.

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Love the "Cosworth" label! But it does not appear to be powered by a Cosworth motor.

Having ditched most of the parasitic drag, a 1956 Morris Minor engine would probably do the job, 'kimbottles'. :)

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Sailby:

That is the ultimate in sailing cool.

 

I agree with you. But I'm 66 years old and I'm not sure I can handle that boat. I like to think I can. Maybe I can. I'm pretty certain I can.

 

But nobody is going to bring one to the beach for me to try out.

I'm pretty sure I could do that. That guy makes it look easy.

 

Ha, ha. I'm not far behind you at 62, Bob and I'm damned sure I can't handle a foiling month (as in flying gybes and tacks, especially). But I'd sure like to give it a go!. Here's a guy 'a bit closer to our ages' - so sure, why not, eh? Check out that one-hand style! He's just too cool as well. :)

 

I think he's using that arm to balance out. I lean forward more than backwards anymore....

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...

 

I do most of my sailing in quite different boats than IF (mostly racing), but i cannot seem to force myself to get rid of my IF, even if it does not get enough attention and TLC nowadays. Mine is the blue one in the second pic.

 

That's called the prison-o-matic coefficient. As the value approaches 1, your chances of escaping approach zero.

 

This, i think, would be even better 'prison' to me. Only very few boats will be remembered several decades after they were born, be they race, cruise or whatever.

 

Vertue.

 

Vertue is so cool that even posting pics seems unnecessary. Most of them are old - all are small, slow and heavy. Vertue has long keel and lot of wetted surface, which may not please everyone, even in CA. But to me, this boat is just breathtakingly cool, like early works of Miles Davis. I guess i can consider myself lucky that i have no money to buy one right now, and none of the early examples is for sale near me.

 

Instead of uploaded pics, have a look at this:

 

http://www.indrans.com/home/vertue-myths-facts.aspx

 

I am glad to see that there is a lot of information available of those lovely little yachts in the web nowadays. Ten years ago i had to order a printed booklet with overall plans and some history from Laurent Giles Yacht Design just to have more information on Vertues.

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56410d1303435347-new-rig-optimist-optimist-wing-sail-sail-world.jpg

Ha. Now that is cool! An Opti with a wing.

 

Optimist NZ Nationals on here in Timaru, South Canterbury this Easter weekend. Pretty sure I won't see one of these on Caroline Bay today though! :)

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...

 

I do most of my sailing in quite different boats than IF (mostly racing), but i cannot seem to force myself to get rid of my IF, even if it does not get enough attention and TLC nowadays. Mine is the blue one in the second pic.

 

That's called the prison-o-matic coefficient. As the value approaches 1, your chances of escaping approach zero.

 

This, i think, would be even better 'prison' to me. Only very few boats will be remembered several decades after they were born, be they race, cruise or whatever.

 

Vertue.

 

Vertue is so cool that even posting pics seems unnecessary. Most of them are old - all are small, slow and heavy. Vertue has long keel and lot of wetted surface, which may not please everyone, even in CA. But to me, this boat is just breathtakingly cool, like early works of Miles Davis. I guess i can consider myself lucky that i have no money to buy one right now, and none of the early examples is for sale near me.

 

Instead of uploaded pics, have a look at this:

 

http://www.indrans.c...yths-facts.aspx

 

I am glad to see that there is a lot of information available of those lovely little yachts in the web nowadays. Ten years ago i had to order a printed booklet with overall plans and some history from Laurent Giles Yacht Design just to have more information on Vertues.

Hey, Bac. Andrillot and her breed are very Coolboats. Thanks for the post.

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1st moth sail @ 78 years old. Pretty good sailor, though.

 

yandy69921.jpg

 

yandy69927.jpg

Wow. I'm impressed - and encouraged.

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I think the bustle was to make the measurement points for IOR, and to really fuck up half-model builders. I look at this and wonder how the hell I'm going to carve that at 1/2"=1'.

 

bustle.jpg

 

 

 

 

I've carved 2...they are a bitch until you break them down into separate entities, then fair them together.

 

God bless West System and good paint :)

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I think this is the ultimate cool boat...it's like Art Deco crashed into performance sailing.

 

I don't want one, but I absolutely love the boat. Amazing that it should be on our lake.

post-25646-0-83197200-1364772176_thumb.jpg

post-25646-0-10234300-1364772179_thumb.jpg

post-25646-0-37759700-1364772181_thumb.jpg

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These bare need very cool. Unless I'm may send taken they are designed by Uffa Fox and are related to the rescue boats he designed to be air dropped to downed air crews. I,m with gatekeeper. Very cool but I don't want one. There used to be a few on our lake.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_lifeboat

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Good article. A cool boat is one that drops from the sky when you are floating around where your airplane sunk!

 

"They were provided with two small engines and around 12 hours worth of fuel but they were encouraged to learn how to sail."

 

"Everything would be in the boat that the rescued airmen would need to survive including food, warm clothing, and cigarettes."

 

Cigarettes = survival gear. Different times indeed.

 

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But what does that overlapping mains'l on the Irens' do off the wind?

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Good article. A cool boat is one that drops from the sky when you are floating around where your airplane sunk!

 

"They were provided with two small engines and around 12 hours worth of fuel but they were encouraged to learn how to sail."

 

"Everything would be in the boat that the rescued airmen would need to survive including food, warm clothing, and cigarettes."

 

Cigarettes = survival gear. Different times indeed.

 

Funny that I was looking for those air drop lifeboats last week and found a good bit of info on the British ones which were designed by Uffa Fox. I was looking for the American version which was built by Higgins in New Orleans because my old joinery foreman had been in charge of that project, at the ripe old age of 19!

 

I learned a lot about yacht interior joinery and general cabinetmaking and mill work as well. He seemed ancient to me at the time and was slow and steady in his work. He got to talking about how he wanted to enlist and go to the front lines to fight in WW11 but was considered way to valuable as a skilled boatbuilder to be wasted as cannon fodder. He had worked for three years on the production lines for the Higgins PT boats and was chosen to run the rescue boat project. The Fox boat was fitted to British Lancaster bombers but they wanted one that would mate properly with out B-17's. They were given a couple of Fox boats to test and evaluate but decided to start with a fresh sheet at Higgins. Double diagonal hot molded with resourcinal glues in a male/female mold that was steam heated if I remember right. It was great to have him share the trials and tribulations of that project and times, I'll try and find what little I found on the net and write a more complete of his stories.

 

Rasp

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Apparently, the sails of airborne lifeboats were printed with instructions on how to sail. Remember reading once about someone (can't remember who) who learnt the theory of sailing because as a kid he had a tent made from one.

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Apparently, the sails of airborne lifeboats were printed with instructions on how to sail. Remember reading once about someone (can't remember who) who learnt the theory of sailing because as a kid he had a tent made from one.

 

There's motivation for you...

 

crashed in the middle of the ocean

"We're fucked"

"No we're not, look here's a lifeboat"

"Know how to sail?"

"No problem, look here's the instructions"

 

:rolleyes:

 

FB- Doug

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post-33902-0-99801600-1364831098_thumb.jpgHere is a odd boat that is strangely appealing to me. Not sure if this is in stainless or if they have just buffed and polished aluminum like you sometimes see done to extremes on aircraft and Airstream trailers.

post-33902-0-56942500-1364831116_thumb.jpg

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post-33902-0-99801600-1364831098_thumb.jpgHere is a odd boat that is strangely appealing to me. Not sure if this is in stainless or if they have just buffed and polished aluminum like you sometimes see done to extremes on aircraft and Airstream trailers.

 

I'm not sure whether I like it or not but I did get a giggle out of the swim platform. The whole boat is nice shiny metal metal everywhere and then on the swim platform we have the token pieces of (fake?) wood. Gotta have wood!

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I think the bustle was to make the measurement points for IOR, and to really fuck up half-model builders.

I've carved 2...they are a bitch until you break them down into separate entities, then fair them together.

 

I doubt this model was carved. "Built" would be a better term. It's at Mystic, said to be a towing tank model for a design that was never built.

 

post-5724-0-84032900-1364840613_thumb.jpg

 

post-5724-0-21270200-1364840659_thumb.jpg

 

And too big to fit over any but the most extraordinary fireplace.

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"No problem, look here's the instructions."

 

1. Point the boat in the direction you want to go.

2. Pull in the sails until they stop flapping.

3. If the sails are still flapping when pulled all the way in, pick a different direction.

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post-33902-0-99801600-1364831098_thumb.jpgHere is a odd boat that is strangely appealing to me. Not sure if this is in stainless or if they have just buffed and polished aluminum like you sometimes see done to extremes on aircraft and Airstream trailers.

 

Interesting. This boats reminds me a little of the front third of Sir Peter Blake's, Seamaster, now Tara.

post-76289-0-83731900-1364844111_thumb.jpg

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Check out this beauty. J Boat, Endeavour launched in Gosport in 1934. She was beaten in the 1934 Americas Cup by Rainbow. Restored in Auckland in 2011.

post-76289-0-62159700-1364844563_thumb.jpg

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Metal boats are recyclable too :-)

Indeed they are. Probably so long as they welded as opposed to riveted.

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If you look real close on an AC boat they still print sailing instructions but in 5 languages:

English

Australian

New Zealand

American

Mongolian

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The cooks. Shaved and carbonized sheep's eyebrows, yum.

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post-33902-0-99801600-1364831098_thumb.jpgHere is a odd boat that is strangely appealing to me. Not sure if this is in stainless or if they have just buffed and polished aluminum like you sometimes see done to extremes on aircraft and Airstream trailers.

 

I'm not sure whether I like it or not but I did get a giggle out of the swim platform. The whole boat is nice shiny metal metal everywhere and then on the swim platform we have the token pieces of (fake?) wood. Gotta have wood!

Rasputin, you picked the wrong thread.

 

PY, metal is hot in the sun.

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Tom

 

I agree hot metal is not fun (unless youre frying eggs for breakfast) but if that was the reason then would have expected a fake teak deck too. ;)

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Nice to see the IF! I sailed one around the Åland Islands when i was 14 or so with my parents, little brother and a rather large dog. Are you familiar with the H-boat? It's another classic around here, designed by Hans Groop in 1967. The class is competitive but it also makes a good boat for camping in the archipelago.

 

424px-H-boat.svg.png

 

 

edman278-72.jpg

 

post-75162-0-77303200-1364935957_thumb.jpg

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I remember a brief period in the 80s when someone was trying to promote the H boat in the US.

 

Like a soling with a cabin :-)

 

I remember the Practical Sailor review of it...I think I still have it somewhere.

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Nice to see the IF! I sailed one around the Åland Islands when i was 14 or so with my parents, little brother and a rather large dog. Are you familiar with the H-boat? It's another classic around here, designed by Hans Groop in 1967. The class is competitive but it also makes a good boat for camping in the archipelago.

 

424px-H-boat.svg.png

 

 

edman278-72.jpg

 

post-75162-0-77303200-1364935957_thumb.jpg

Nice boat, Georg. And I love the idea of stepping off her nose, directly onto the archipelago camp site. How convenient is that?

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I remember a brief period in the 80s when someone was trying to promote the H boat in the US.

 

I liked the idea of it a lot. Still do. But the reality was (and is) that I have to have a engine. There was an H-boat around here with an outboard way, way back there on the transom. No way that was going to work for me.

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The H-boat is probably the most famous of the Hans Groop designs. He has also designed a few 5.5 meter yachts, one of which won the world championships in 1985 (according to wikipedia). Four people can sleep in an H-boat altough it's a bit spartan. There's a small kitchen inside too, i guess the most common is to have a two flame Origo.

 

Most H-boats have a stern mounted outboard engine but the boat is easy to manouver under sail and the engine is rarely needed for leaving or entering a harbour. Also, the sails cannot be reefed, you just have to crank the backstay and vang to increase rake and bend. I've sailed one in about 15 m/s and it behaves quite nicely and it's light enough to roll-tack in light winds.

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...the engine is rarely needed for leaving or entering a harbour.

 

I'm cool with tacking out a channel, but it's not responsible in a tight marina, even if not against the rules. Besides, I sail in an area where the biggest reason to come in from a sail is there isn't enough wind to make progress against the current.

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oh yes... H-boat. I've owned one more than 10 years ago, sail # FIN-535 ... lovely boat, such a joy to helm upwind.

 

trying to use outboard in anything else than flat water is quite hopeless, but H-boat is very easy to maneuver in close quarters and its only 1450kg and half of it in keel. I had a main with a reef in it, but i have raced the H-boat in over 40 kn without reefing. The ride in upwind legs is very, very wet indeed if the wave height is more than one meter, but the boat feels very safe and stiff in heavy weather and goes upwind like a dream when there is enough wind and when the rig & sail trim is right. We once momentarily logged 12,5 kn going DDW without spinnaker, H-boat was trying to surf, which is an interesting situation with a hullform like that... I have no idea how much wind there really was, but the wind was quite strong, one skipper of a bigger boat claimed afterwards that his wind instruments had shown gusts up to 60 kn at the same time near us (they were in the same race as we were).

 

Great boat !

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Over on SA discussion, a YMT design came up. Sniffing around I found this pix of its smaller sister, the Carter 37. Even stick down and on the hard, it looks amazing.

 

70481d1337187643-carter-37-carter-37-mustang-profile0001.jpg

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Great pic Jack.

This design was pretty mch done when I arrived at Carter's. YMT did the hull lines based on the one tonner YDRA. Chuck Paine probably did the cabin trunk and layout.

This one has been modified with the hhydraulic drive removed and a straight shaft added. You can see how they butchered the skeg to get the prop clearance.

Notice the deep forefoot. This design came before the days of slicing the sections off right at the forwardeasuerment point so this boat had deadrise forward.

Note also the pronounced bustle. It's a very dated look but like a cool old sports car it still looks great. This would make a crackerjack cruising boat.

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