Sailbydate

Coolboats to admire

Recommended Posts

Shitski! 100 Concordia yawls? That's kind of amazing. They were the Cat 27's of their day.

It's nice to know that they were as well appreciated when new as they are now.

I wonder what a new one cost back in the day. I'll stick out my neck and guess $19,750.00.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Concordias are still well-loved around here. They're wood, so they need to be. I met an owner once and he called mine a "glass" boat. I always call it "plastic."

 

From Wikipedia:

 

The first four Concordias were produced in Massachusetts. Concordia commissioned the Abeking and Rasmussen shipyard in Lemwerder, Germany to build the last 99 (26 of them as a 41' Model).[3] 102 of the 103 Concordias are still in existence today.[4]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Bob, your posting of Night Runner put me in mind of Sunstone, just because of the bright finish.

 

I don't think she's been nominated for Cool Boat yet, but I don't think you can find cooler, for what she is and for what she does.

 

She beat the modern racing boats, and now out-cruises the Chelsea Tractor "Expedition yachts"

 

attachicon.gifYacht Sunstone,RCYC,2008.jpg

 

Sunstone has been one of my favorite boats for a long time. Doing what they've done is something I aspire to...only they did it in good style.

 

Website. http://www.sunstonesailing.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

he first four Concordias were produced in Massachusetts. Concordia commissioned the Abeking and Rasmussen shipyard in Lemwerder, Germany to build the last 99 (26 of them as a 41' Model).[3] 102 of the 103 Concordias are still in existence today.[4]

 

True but slightly misleading. The hulls were built by A&R. They were rigged by Concordia in Pandanarum (a tony name for a portion of a down-market suburb of of the down-market city of New Bedford). I don't know how much of the interior was built where. I have seen a photo of a string of about 6 hulls being towed from the port of Boston to the Concordia shop. It would be cool to see a photo of the procession transiting the Cape Cod Canal,.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shitski! 100 Concordia yawls? That's kind of amazing. They were the Cat 27's of their day.

It's nice to know that they were as well appreciated when new as they are now.

I wonder what a new one cost back in the day. I'll stick out my neck and guess $19,750.00.

 

The Cat 27s of a slightly later day would be the strip-built Amphibicons, and other Controversies: http://www.amphibicon.com/Amphibicon.com/Welcome.html They were the biggest selling boats just before the advent of fiberglass construction. I don't recall seeing one in the flesh for years and years, but you every now and then one is listed for sale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Semi, the proud denizens of S Dartmouth might take offense at the idea that they're in a suburb of New Bedford.

 

I've been tempted in the past to get a place on Mishaum Point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Bob, your posting of Night Runner put me in mind of Sunstone, just because of the bright finish.

 

I don't think she's been nominated for Cool Boat yet, but I don't think you can find cooler, for what she is and for what she does.

 

She beat the modern racing boats, and now out-cruises the Chelsea Tractor "Expedition yachts"

 

attachicon.gifYacht Sunstone,RCYC,2008.jpg

 

Sunstone has been one of my favorite boats for a long time. Doing what they've done is something I aspire to...only they did it in good style.

 

Website. http://www.sunstonesailing.com/

Great to see that keep her topsides varnished after so many miles. Settling in NZ ... so many cruising sailors seem to do this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Semi, the proud denizens of S Dartmouth might take offense at the idea that they're in a suburb of New Bedford.

 

I've been tempted in the past to get a place on Mishaum Point.

 

And angrier still that I misspelled Padanaram: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padanaram,_Massachusetts

 

From Concordia Yachts at 300 Gulf Road South Dartmouth, MA 02748-1515 to the New Bedford Whaling Museum at 33 William Street, New Bedford, MA is 5.6 road miles, less as the seagull flies of course, and parts of South Dartmouth are just over half as far. I'd say that is close enough for an Internet comment to use the word "suburb." I admit that "down-market" was a gratuitous slam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Semi, the proud denizens of S Dartmouth might take offense at the idea that they're in a suburb of New Bedford.

 

I've been tempted in the past to get a place on Mishaum Point.

 

And angrier still that I misspelled Padanaram: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padanaram,_Massachusetts

 

From Concordia Yachts at 300 Gulf Road South Dartmouth, MA 02748-1515 to the New Bedford Whaling Museum at 33 William Street, New Bedford, MA is 5.6 road miles, less as the seagull flies of course, and parts of South Dartmouth are just over half as far. I'd say that is close enough for an Internet comment to use the word "suburb." I admit that "down-market" was a gratuitous slam.

 

Semi, if only distance makes a suburb then you're right. But I think of a suburb as a place next to a city where one can find work. Unfortunately in New Bedford that's not easy.

 

New Bedford is trying to attract cruising transients on the water, superfund cleanup notwithstanding. I'd like to reward their efforts this season. Have you been?

 

I heard Concordia, at least the waterfront property, was sold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While we're on the subject of yawls, this is the yawl `Hera' designed and built in 1950 by Henry Rasmussen (owner of Abeking Rasmussen) for himself.

 

She was 43'2" x 10'1" x 6'

 

Cool methinks and one of the many pre war/ post war bunch of pretty yawls. I wonder what Mr Rasmussen's influences were? Olin Stephens was one, no doubt.

 

Does anyone know the history of rating rules in post war European continent (excluding Great Britain). What rules did Germany, Holland, France, Italy develop (if any) in those early post war years (50s) before IOR was popularised?

 

 

 

post-14496-0-96204600-1370720487_thumb.jpg

post-14496-0-76072900-1370720503_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While we're on the subject of yawls, this is the yawl `Hera' designed and built in 1950 by Henry Rasmussen (owner of Abeking Rasmussen) for himself.

 

She was 43'2" x 10'1" x 6'

 

Cool methinks and one of the many pre war/ post war bunch of pretty yawls. I wonder what Mr Rasmussen's influences were? Olin Stephens was one, no doubt.

 

Does anyone know the history of rating rules in post war European continent (excluding Great Britain). What rules did Germany, Holland, France, Italy develop (if any) in those early post war years (50s) before IOR was popularised?

Wasn't the RORC rule used in Europe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to Peter Johnson's book YACHT RACING the RORC was the only handicap rule in use in Europe after the WWII. While CCA, Storm Trisail and Offsoundings were all in use in North and South America.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got a thing for the Bristol 33.3

 

It stems from the fact that my employee number here at work is 333. The first time I saw one it was like a meant to be. Now if I only had 60K laying around.

 

3693740_20110902083423_3_LARGE.jpg

 

main.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I designed the 59'er STARBUCK I gave it an "I" of 66.6'. The owner asked how I chose that rig height. I told him, "666, it's the sign of the beast."

He said, "Cool, I like it."

Science!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow! That is an amazing houseboat.

I think Gilmore is one of the most under rated guitarists. But from the look of his studio I won't feel sorry for him.

Interesting that they build a barge like that and still give it some spring to the sheer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow! That is an amazing houseboat.

I think Gilmore is one of the most under rated guitarists. But from the look of his studio I won't feel sorry for him.

Interesting that they build a barge like that and still give it some spring to the sheer.

Here is a great interview on that barge:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO7cncmmf3g

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to Peter Johnson's book YACHT RACING the RORC was the only handicap rule in use in Europe after the WWII. While CCA, Storm Trisail and Offsoundings were all in use in North and South America.

 

Yacht Racing or Yacht Rating? I've got the latter, but if it's racing, is it worth getting a copy?

 

7th Baronet of New York, no less. For those who care about those things.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1431339/Sir-Peter-Johnson-Bt.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2003/jul/30/guardianobituaries

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Among prog rock bands Pink Floyd is the brightest, most enduring star in my mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those cast iron roof support filigrees must add immensely to the stability of the barge. As Roger Waters did for the band.

 

...and I'm still kicking myself for selling off my tickets to the "Wall" show in 1980 in Uniondale NY (Hell, it was 200 miles away!) for a scalpers ransom. F^%&ing midterms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw them in Van. on the Dark Side tour - f'ing amazing show - the first really spectacular "staged" rock show - naked dancing girls on top of the speaker towers, indoor pyrotechnics etc. Prior to that, even Led Zephloid basically just played on a big stage but Floyd upped the ante about 4 orders of magnitude with the Dark Side show. It would still be a first rank show today, 40 years later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometime back, there was a thread about rowing boats. For a while, I thought we might get Bob to design a boat for himself, but I guess other things intervened. When I saw a picture in Messing About In Boats, I thought, hey, maybe Bob was thinking about something like this:

 

P1140271.jpg

 

 

Of course, we know Bob has experience drawing a rowing boat for a crowd:

 

P1110266.jpg

 

More here: http://puuvenepiste.fi/en/index.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometime back, there was a thread about rowing boats. For a while, I thought we might get Bob to design a boat for himself, but I guess other things intervened. When I saw a picture in Messing About In Boats, I thought, hey, maybe Bob was thinking about something like this:

 

P1140271.jpg

 

What a nice little rowboat! Let's put a sail on it! ;)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got a thing for the Bristol 33.3

 

It stems from the fact that my employee number here at work is 333. The first time I saw one it was like a meant to be. Now if I only had 60K laying around.

 

3693740_20110902083423_3_LARGE.jpg

 

main.jpg

 

I'vs always liked the look of the "fractional" Bristols like the 33.3 and the 35.5. In fact we looked at a 35.5 when we were shopping for your last boat and she was my favorite but I ost the family vote.

 

This one is another boiat from the pen of Ted ho, in he same vein. A Gulfstar 40. Looks great to my eye and a 4'3" draft wth the board up.

 

main.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

all time favorite..

 

126-Zeearend%2Bsail%2Bplan%2B300.jpg

126-7%2Bcabin%2Bplan.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a very interesting companionway setup

Zeearand%2B2%2B.jpg

 

I'd be interested in the "why". I would bet it has something to do with maximizing room below -- no ladder smack dab in the middle of the cabin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw them in Van. on the Dark Side tour - f'ing amazing show - the first really spectacular "staged" rock show - naked dancing girls on top of the speaker towers, indoor pyrotechnics etc. Prior to that, even Led Zephloid basically just played on a big stage but Floyd upped the ante about 4 orders of magnitude with the Dark Side show. It would still be a first rank show today, 40 years later.

I skied with the band, specifically David Gilmore, the day before of the concert. I knew who they were about to embark into a iconic milestone in music. They were good but a bit of a little off stream what was going on in the world. Dark Side changed everything for them; us as well. They used to start NA tours in Van. so I think it was the first one so who knew! I didn't go as I think as was working anyway. I don't remember if the boys offered me tickets or not but I would've had passed anyway. However, I still have their ski rental forms from that somewhere and we had a great lunch.

 

Gilmore was/is a great guy. More interested about what I was doing with my skiing at that time. Real gentleman.

 

I still crank on the '96 concert on PBS when it comes up - outstanding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's kind of odd that at one time we had some CA'ers railing against the potentially dangerous offset companionway and by posting great boat after great boat with offset companionways we have turned that argument into a standard CA joke. It's good to be educated.

 

Lovely old drawings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks to, because of, Bob I'll never look at overhangs the same way. Now I see waste of sailing length.

 

Does the bow overhang do more than make anchor handling easier? Does the stern overhang do other than gently caress and then free the stern wave?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maxx, you skied with Pink Floyd and then didn't go to the show? Holy fucking shit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

kdh:

I think overhangs can do some work to extend the sailing length depending upon the sectional shape and how much boat is immersed as the boat heels. But if you apply this to bows it's hard to imagine bow overhang doing anything to add to sailing length. The exception is the scow type bow you see on some of the mini Transat boats. Laurie Davidson told me years ago that the Farr AC boats with "destroyer" bows were not as fast in waves as the boats with bow overhang.

 

Overhang came from the days of the old "Tonnage" rules used for rating. The basic formula was L+B+D= rating in tons. (Note that sail area was not even part of the formula.) B was beam and D was depth usually taken as a function of B because it was hard to measure depth(draft) when the boat was in the water. The big question was how and where to measure L, length. When they moved the L dimension from the deck level to the DWL there was a lot of pressure to reduce DWL, i.e. L, to get a lower rating. Overhangs came into vogue but only as an artifact of that rule. Later rules would also use DWL or a waterline close to the DWL as the basis for L so overhangs became a standard design feature. If you went back to measuring L at the deck level overhangs would almost dissapear. A little overhang aft is good to clean up the wake, reduce drag, at low speeds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be interested in the "why". I would bet it has something to do with maximizing room below -- no ladder smack dab in the middle of the cabin.

 

Yeah - I'm not sure where, exactly, they are on the general arrangement linked above or here:

http://sparkmanstephens.blogspot.com/2011/05/design-126-zeearend.html

I guess it's interesting they chose it with the relatively narrow overall beam of 12'

 

gorgeous sweep to the cockpit coamings to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only way that layout works is with an offcenter companionway. Look carefully at the drawing and you will see the "great cabin" approach where there is a circular dinette aft of the galley to starboard. It's a tiny mani cabin and letting a companionway intrude into that area would have created some headroom issues under the ladder. Although the drawing does not clearly, to my eye, define the companionway exactly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There do seem to be a set of curved stairs just aft of the galley. They would have to be pretty steep to be that short.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ish:

That has to be the companionway but I agree, they must be pretty steep. The photo seems to show a companionway hatch on both sides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my comments on old "rating" rules I forgot to mention that the first rules, the tonnage rules were measurements of volume originally used to calculate taxation of cargo carrying vesels. A
"tun" was a cask of wine. Your rating was a volume measurement that really had nothing to do with the actual displacement of the vessel. In time this would change, due to American influences, into a rule that measured Length and for a long while displacement was ignored as was sail area. This lead to the age of the skimming dishes with towering rigs and some remarkable and deadly failures. I think we can thank Nathaniel Herreshoff for finally convincing sailors and yacht club mavens that a true estimate of displacement was needed to stop the skimming dish type. Boats were falling over. Falling over when moored.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those tonnage rules are still used today for setting certain regulations for vessels such as manning requirements. On our large yachts we have to do some some strange things in order to get the tonnage down to a level where crew size and other requirements can be reduced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does it involve wanking? Are there sheep involved? Nudge nudge wink wink.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are dual companionways, I hadn't realized. Wow. Let's make half the boat ladders to somewhere else. Maybe there's an up and a down staircase?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Shitski! 100 Concordia yawls? That's kind of amazing. They were the Cat 27's of their day.

It's nice to know that they were as well appreciated when new as they are now.

I wonder what a new one cost back in the day. I'll stick out my neck and guess $19,750.00.

 

The Cat 27s of a slightly later day would be the strip-built Amphibicons, and other Controversies: http://www.amphibicon.com/Amphibicon.com/Welcome.html They were the biggest selling boats just before the advent of fiberglass construction. I don't recall seeing one in the flesh for years and years, but you every now and then one is listed for sale.

The little museum in Northeast Harbor had a pretty extensive display on these a few years ago, as I recall the reverse sheer was radical for a sailboat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I saw them in Van. on the Dark Side tour - f'ing amazing show - the first really spectacular "staged" rock show - naked dancing girls on top of the speaker towers, indoor pyrotechnics etc. Prior to that, even Led Zephloid basically just played on a big stage but Floyd upped the ante about 4 orders of magnitude with the Dark Side show. It would still be a first rank show today, 40 years later.

I skied with the band, specifically David Gilmore, the day before of the concert. I knew who they were about to embark into a iconic milestone in music. They were good but a bit of a little off stream what was going on in the world. Dark Side changed everything for them; us as well. They used to start NA tours in Van. so I think it was the first one so who knew! I didn't go as I think as was working anyway. I don't remember if the boys offered me tickets or not but I would've had passed anyway. However, I still have their ski rental forms from that somewhere and we had a great lunch.

 

Gilmore was/is a great guy. More interested about what I was doing with my skiing at that time. Real gentleman.

 

I still crank on the '96 concert on PBS when it comes up - outstanding.

Now that's what I call one-upmanship! :P:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks to, because of, Bob I'll never look at overhangs the same way. Now I see waste of sailing length.

 

Does the bow overhang do more than make anchor handling easier? Does the stern overhang do other than gently caress and then free the stern wave?

Yes - they make the boat beautiful. I have rarely seen a boat that I thought had too much overhang - the odd old Scandinavian boat is about it. Even the J Class and their ilk don't have too much IMHO.

 

I'd rather have a boat that looked great than a boxy looking thing that went 1 Knot faster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jon:

Don't bother me with your personal problems.

 

You probably like those gals with the 48" chests too. Overhangs baby!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm watching the Stanley Cup playoffs. 3 to 3 going into the third OT. I don't really like hockey but Gate makes me watch it.\

Ok, I admit it. I like it a lot. Men with sticks and no teeth on skates? What not to like?

I wonder if there is a hockey player who is also a sailor?

Chara?

That would be cool ( in my best Butthead voice).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a pic of the model of zeearend i have in my home. It is also completely remote controlled.

 

Btw the replica they are building doesn't have the characteristic aluminium deckhouse, whish is a shame imo.

 

 

Several more photos of Zeearend here:

http://www.ontdekkingsschrijver.nl/attachments/File/Zeilen/Bruynzeel.pdf

definitely looks steep based on the last photo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd rather have a boat that looked great than a boxy looking thing that went 1 Knot faster.

 

 

Do you hire a barge with a giant mirror to pace alongside so you can enjoy those good looks, or is this just a kind of eyeball charity? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jon:

Don't bother me with your personal problems.

 

You probably like those gals with the 48" chests too. Overhangs baby!

 

I think Bob has made here and elsewhere over the years a good case that overhangs historically have often been excessive for any reasonable practical purposes.

 

Knowing this has changed my opinion of what makes a boat beautiful because it's odd that rules and laws have given rise to a definition of beautiful. A boat can be attractive, even traditional, without excessive overhangs and be suited to its purpose independent of rules.

 

I hope Bob can be the guy who is known as one "who finally convinced us that overhangs are stupid."

 

Here are some overhangs for you, Jon.

 

big2_zpsa64fb269.jpg

 

Should we talk about anchors now? :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always thought that some overhang at the front has a positive effect in damping pitching motion, without introducing too much flare in the topsides of the bow...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alpha:

It seems that you might be right on that. But take a look at those bows. They push a lot of volume into those old AC boat bows. They are very U shaped in section. I have the lines to Laurie's BLACK MAGIC and every once and a while I unroll them just for some inspiration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are dual companionways, I hadn't realized. Wow. Let's make half the boat ladders to somewhere else. Maybe there's an up and a down staircase?

 

If I were a rich yachtie ... biddy biddy biddy biddy biddy biddy biddy bum!

 

There would be one long staircase companionway just going up,

And one even longer coming down,

And one more leading nowhere, just for show!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm watching the Stanley Cup playoffs. 3 to 3 going into the third OT. I don't really like hockey but Gate makes me watch it.\

Ok, I admit it. I like it a lot. Men with sticks and no teeth on skates? What not to like?

I wonder if there is a hockey player who is also a sailor?

Chara?

That would be cool ( in my best Butthead voice).

There was a guy in the NHL a few years back who sailed a Finn at the Olympics, I'm pretty sure. Can't recall the name though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maxx, you skied with Pink Floyd and then didn't go to the show? Holy fucking shit.

I know! What a bonehead. Like I said they weren't quite as main stream like the Stones, Zep etc and the tour started in Vancouver so not much hype. I think I had to work, maybe evening shift, but you could hear the concert from the Pacific Coliseum to the top of Grouse Mtn. If nothing else they were loud.

 

I should have dropped acid huh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I'm watching the Stanley Cup playoffs. 3 to 3 going into the third OT. I don't really like hockey but Gate makes me watch it.\

Ok, I admit it. I like it a lot. Men with sticks and no teeth on skates? What not to like?

I wonder if there is a hockey player who is also a sailor?

Chara?

That would be cool ( in my best Butthead voice).

There was a guy in the NHL a few years back who sailed a Finn at the Olympics, I'm pretty sure. Can't recall the name though.

 

Hank Lemmens:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_Lammens

 

I'd bet he was a tough mofo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Schnicker. Probably not the guy you would want to try to squeeze inside of at the mark.

 

Gates an old hockey player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boston has never stopped being a hockey town. All of my nephews play, even the ones that moved to Florida.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Schnicker. Probably not the guy you would want to try to squeeze inside of at the mark.

 

Gates an old hockey player.

 

A Finn sailor no less - whoda thunk it! From Edmunchuk, Calgary or Red Deer or something. I knew his brother in Vancouver and I think we all had a beer at one point. Probably 20 years ago. Might make sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a Davidson ' fast cruiser' from 1975 myself and have spent some miles to the islands on a near sister from 1980.They're 45 ft and just totally capable boats, lovely to be on.

 

I always loved the Davidson 42's ,definitely cool boats. There was one called Teddy Bear that was bought in build and went straight to the U.S. I'm guessing mid late 1980's, anyone heard of that , she still around? (edit found a link to the builders site. )

 

http://www.lloydstevensonyachts.co.nz/page/boats/info/teddy_bear/

she went to Seattle, 1984.

 

Alpha:

It seems that you might be right on that. But take a look at those bows. They push a lot of volume into those old AC boat bows. They are very U shaped in section. I have the lines to Laurie's BLACK MAGIC and every once and a while I unroll them just for some inspiration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I have a Davidson ' fast cruiser' from 1975 myself and have spent some miles to the islands on a near sister from 1980.They're 45 ft and just totally capable boats, lovely to be on.

 

I always loved the Davidson 42's ,definitely cool boats. There was one called Teddy Bear that was bought in build and went straight to the U.S. I'm guessing mid late 1980's, anyone heard of that , she still around? (edit found a link to the builders site. )

 

http://www.lloydstevensonyachts.co.nz/page/boats/info/teddy_bear/

she went to Seattle, 1984.

 

Alpha:

It seems that you might be right on that. But take a look at those bows. They push a lot of volume into those old AC boat bows. They are very U shaped in section. I have the lines to Laurie's BLACK MAGIC and every once and a while I unroll them just for some inspiration.

Oh ya. The boat has been a local legend for years & years. Still in Puget Sound. Anacortes or Bellingham maybe?

 

I think I saw her in 48 North rag lately. Anyone from the Sound?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, not a sailboat, but still pretty damn cool. Sorry for the cruddy pic, hard to take while you are driving down the highway. I loved how it looks like the amphibian sister of a 1950's Thunderbird. It even had fins.

post-74403-0-65646200-1371168351_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TEDDY BEAR has been raced regularly here for years. I'm pretty surte it lives in Anacortes and owned by Grey Hawkin. He usually shows up for Whidby Island Race Week. It is a great looking boat with a big graphic of a growling grizzly bear on the chute. No overhangs at all. All DWL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Starling Burgess's Nina used to be moored right off the bow of my parents boat. A really powerful impressive boat.

 

For some reason though, I remember her as black, with white bulkwards. Strange.

 

2939325133_1ab93d707d_z.jpg?zz=1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think NINA was originally black.

 

NINA was the result of Burgess designing to the American Ocean Racing Rule. In her day those overhangs were seen as "snubbed off" due to the rule. Obviously they were moving away from determining "L" from a simple DWL measurement. But I can't find any definitive data on that specific rule at that time, 1928. NINA is often considered the first "ocean racer" designed to a rule.

As much as we would like to see NINA as a classic yacht in terms of aesthetics the reality is she was designed as a rule beater and she was very successful in that effort.

In Uffa Fox's book he says if NINA had not been designed to that rule, "NINA would have had longer overhangs forward and aft. The result would have be a shorter bowsprit, would make reefing the mainsail easier, as well as giving stability, steadiness and speed in a seaway." No way I would ever argue with Uffa ( Don't call me Mr. Fox.)

 

The footnote to the chapter on NINA in Uffa's book reads, " Uffa resented the short ends of NINA's hull. One of his great precepts was drawing the lines out to their logical conclusion."

 

Probably a sad note to my life that I find this shit fascinating. I don't care. It's fascinating to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting, Uffa is one of my all time heroes, and also would make a great fantasy dinner party guest. Has history proven him wrong, in this age of snub nose cut-off open class ocean racers? or is it too early to tell, and the pendulum will swing the other way?

 

(I also like snub nosed, cut-off open class ocean racers)

 

So much is due to fashion, but Uffa drew some timeless masterpieces.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bob

 

I find that stuff fascinating as well. Than you for posting it. It provides a bunch of context that is hard to come by. From the little I have read, Uffa seems to have been quite the character and original thinker.

 

On an embarassing note, I have a small print of the Nina pic in Elegua's post hanging on the wall at home, for at least ten years. I just like the picture when I saw it. The embarassing thing is that I had no clue she was a schooner.

 

Hiding in shame now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Py:

That makes two of us weirdos.

NINA was a staysail schooner. This rig was quite foreign to Uffa and he considered it an American rig. He goes on in his book about converting it to a cutter rig.

I would not be at all surprised if the staysail schooner configuration also came out of that old rule. Perhaps staysails were lightly taxed under that rule compared to a regular foresail. That would be my guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think NINA was originally black.

 

NINA was the result of Burgess designing to the American Ocean Racing Rule. In her day those overhangs were seen as "snubbed off" due to the rule. Obviously they were moving away from determining "L" from a simple DWL measurement. But I can't find any definitive data on that specific rule at that time, 1928. NINA is often considered the first "ocean racer" designed to a rule.

As much as we would like to see NINA as a classic yacht in terms of aesthetics the reality is she was designed as a rule beater and she was very successful in that effort.

In Uffa Fox's book he says if NINA had not been designed to that rule, "NINA would have had longer overhangs forward and aft. The result would have be a shorter bowsprit, would make reefing the mainsail easier, as well as giving stability, steadiness and speed in a seaway." No way I would ever argue with Uffa ( Don't call me Mr. Fox.)

 

The footnote to the chapter on NINA in Uffa's book reads, " Uffa resented the short ends of NINA's hull. One of his great precepts was drawing the lines out to their logical conclusion."

 

Probably a sad note to my life that I find this shit fascinating. I don't care. It's fascinating to me.

 

I see no crime, nor reason for shame, in the fascination with the minutiae of your life's work and passion.

 

I'd expect nothing less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting, Uffa is one of my all time heroes, and also would make a great fantasy dinner party guest. Has history proven him wrong, in this age of snub nose cut-off open class ocean racers? or is it too early to tell, and the pendulum will swing the other way?

 

(I also like snub nosed, cut-off open class ocean racers)

 

So much is due to fashion, but Uffa drew some timeless masterpieces.

 

How much of the shape was dictated by existing building technology? It's hard to well fabricate planked boats with steep curves. Some of the 00s knockabouts had almost fin keels but were wet with the caravel planking of the era.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why I am confused, Mr Fox was an International 14 superstar, he invented the planning racing dinghy. I find it tricky to think of a guy who could wring so much speed out of a 14 foot hull, berating lead mines for too little overhangs/too much waterline?

 

I have only read a couple of his books, will have to get a better understanding of the guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You do that Auto. And please, he hated to be called "Mr. Fox! He was Uffa to everyone. I think, and this has been my point lately, you have to appreciate the design approach relative to the rating rule in place. The rule in England at the time was a waterline based rule so naturally waterlines got short and overhangs exploded to capture unmeasured sailing length. Long overhangs became "normal" and NINA was not normal in that regard.

 

Jib:

Given that the rules of the day did not use any scantling factors many of the boats were one season "throw away" boats, i.e. very lightly built. When the Americans, Herrshoff, began designing what was called "skimming dishes" the light scantling approach was pushed to the max and it became evident that there had to be some control over scantlings. While draft was measured as a function of "B", displacment was not measured so boats became lighter and lighter and deeper and deeper. Then you could probably argue that the building techniques of the day did impose limitations on how much lead you could hang below a lightly built timber hull. Hard to imagine but in the early days external lead was considered as radical as swing keels are today. The move to external lead brought with it many scantling failures.

 

If you track from one attempt at a handicap rule to the next you can see that the issues we deal with today are pretty much the same. The details may change but the level of unrest and controversy following the rating rules has been there since the late 1800's. In fact, it was discontent with the rating rules and throw away boats that lead to the very first one design classes. Boy, does that sound familiar?

 

I see YMT lurking. Maybe he can chime in on some of this historical stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Maxx, you skied with Pink Floyd and then didn't go to the show? Holy fucking shit.

I know! What a bonehead. Like I said they weren't quite as main stream like the Stones, Zep etc and the tour started in Vancouver so not much hype. I think I had to work, maybe evening shift, but you could hear the concert from the Pacific Coliseum to the top of Grouse Mtn. If nothing else they were loud.

 

I should have dropped acid huh?

It wasn't necessary - the whole show was like an acid trip! You got an unusual story out of it anyway.

 

Prior to Dark Side they were a sort of cultish thing. I first heard them on Ummagumma and loved them but I used to get comments like "that's not music, that's mind sickness" when I played them at parties.

 

I had the last laugh when Dark Side came out though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why I am confused, Mr Fox was an International 14 superstar, he invented the planning racing dinghy. I find it tricky to think of a guy who could wring so much speed out of a 14 foot hull, berating lead mines for too little overhangs/too much waterline?

 

I have only read a couple of his books, will have to get a better understanding of the guy.

 

I've seen comments from more than one established designer saying that some of Uffa's ideas were unsound. Back in the 1950s and 60s, the boating magazines had plenty of comments about "useful overhang." Now it has been shown in the tow tank that some overhang can be useful, but not as useful as extending LWL.

 

I think Uffa was a brilliant intuitive designer, but it's hard to be intuitive beyond your experience.

 

Here is an example. Uffa designed and built a sailing canoe with a trapeze. It was very fast. Then Uffa said, I'll design a sailing canoe for two men on trapezes, and I'll be able to have much more sail area and go even faster. But it didn't go faster. Weight matters more than Uffa knew. So he tried things, and built boats, and some were amazing and some were not.

 

There is something that I think Uffa had in common with Olin Stephens: they both pushed boatbuilding in the direction of more sophisticated construction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Uffa did interesting expriments with rowing shells. They didn't always work but I can understand his thinking. In his time all you had to go on was intuition. He sure hit the nail on the head with his early planing boats.

 

Hard to compare Uffa with Olin. Can't imagine Olin in a sailing canoe. Uffa didn't have big office. I think it was just Uffa and a drawing board. My inspiration for writing my SAILING reviews has always been Uffa Fox.

 

There is a photo of Uffa starkers on the bow of a 30 sq. meter. The caption reads something like this, "Modesty is just one's own sense of imperfection." He came out of Churchill's era. They don't make them like that anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

post-76289-0-10127600-1371263648_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

Have raced in Uffa's Flying Fifteen design (classic). A really great OD keel boat experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bob, you just opened up a lot of repressed memory neurons. I remember having discussions about Nina being a real rule beater and not really being convinced. 10 year olds know a lot about yacht design, and there was no way that wooden monster could be fast. Not like modern boats like a Laser or a J24. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This came into the yard the other day.Nice looking boat,I think maybe her butt has been pinched a few to many times and there is a lot of COTB. What makes her cool to me is that she is STEEL and VERY fair.

I didn't realize that till they started sand blasting the bottom. The guys working on her said there was very litttle fairing compound on her.

All the work order said was her name Camira. and Payne. Chuck? Allen? I couldn't find any thing on line. Does anybody know her or have info? (Phone pics suck)

 

post-22256-0-16728600-1371305346_thumb.jpg

 

post-22256-0-86557600-1371305476_thumb.jpg

 

post-22256-0-05934400-1371305506_thumb.jpg Damn nice steel work here.

 

post-22256-0-99535700-1371305556_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This came into the yard the other day.Nice looking boat,I think maybe her butt has been pinched a few to many times and there is a lot of COTB. What makes her cool to me is that she is STEEL and VERY fair.

I didn't realize that till they started sand blasting the bottom. The guys working on her said there was very litttle fairing compound on her.

All the work order said was her name Camira. and Payne. Chuck? Allen? I couldn't find any thing on line. Does anybody know her or have info? (Phone pics suck)

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0224.JPG

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0223.JPG

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0225.JPG Damn nice steel work here.

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0228.JPG

 

Info from Latitude 38, regarding the roster for the 2004 Puddle Jump:

 

Camira - Alan Payne 41 yawl

Mike & Dana Snyder, Bellingham, WA

Oddly enough, Dana learned to sail as a kid while Mike didn't sample the sport until he was a Navy pilot on a tour of duty in the South Pacific. But it was Mike who had fantasies of crossing oceans in a sailboat, and when he and Dana got together, she quickly bought into his cruising fantasies. Together, they worked for 10 years to make those dreams a reality.

Reflecting on his new cruising life, Mike says, "After spending a lot of time going 500 knots, its very cool to slow down and experience a completely different pace. In fact, as a friend put it recently, 'You have to be a 'Type A' to get here, but you'd better switch into a 'Type B' pretty quickly."

"You might say we're successfully mellowing," adds Dana. "I think I'm a 'Type C' or 'Type D' by now."

Their plan is to island-hop to New Zealand, then reassess. So far they seem to be having the time of their lives, exploring new cultures and making new friends. "We've made more friends than we ever had in our former, furiously-working lifestyle," they say. "The cruising community is composed of giving, intelligent, gifted people. Sailing is just a small part of it all."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I woke up and took this picture this morning. Sparkling day. Played Dark Side of the Moon on the stereo. Life is good.

 

IMG_0014_zps76965805.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I woke up and took this picture this morning. Sparkling day. Played Dark Side of the Moon on the stereo. Life is good.

 

IMG_0014_zps76965805.jpg

Looks like the shags are enjoying themselves too, kdh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You see more and more Novi boats in the US, and they are working their way south, though this is well south of their normal range. Some say it is global warming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sakonnet Point. Still very much a fisherman's harbor though cruisers are spending more time there these days. Everyone was friendly. We had a great overnight and a really good meal ashore.

 

There aren't a lot of lobsters to be caught in Narragansett Bay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a very nice boat, but the presentation for the sales shot was a little...different.

 

 

post-703-0-42937300-1371430194_thumb.jpg

 

"OK, nobody move for four hours."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

This came into the yard the other day.Nice looking boat,I think maybe her butt has been pinched a few to many times and there is a lot of COTB. What makes her cool to me is that she is STEEL and VERY fair.

I didn't realize that till they started sand blasting the bottom. The guys working on her said there was very litttle fairing compound on her.

All the work order said was her name Camira. and Payne. Chuck? Allen? I couldn't find any thing on line. Does anybody know her or have info? (Phone pics suck)

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0224.JPG

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0223.JPG

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0225.JPG Damn nice steel work here.

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0228.JPG

 

Info from Latitude 38, regarding the roster for the 2004 Puddle Jump:

 

Camira - Alan Payne 41 yawl
Mike & Dana Snyder, Bellingham, WA

Oddly enough, Dana learned to sail as a kid while Mike didn't sample the sport until he was a Navy pilot on a tour of duty in the South Pacific. But it was Mike who had fantasies of crossing oceans in a sailboat, and when he and Dana got together, she quickly bought into his cruising fantasies. Together, they worked for 10 years to make those dreams a reality.

Reflecting on his new cruising life, Mike says, "After spending a lot of time going 500 knots, its very cool to slow down and experience a completely different pace. In fact, as a friend put it recently, 'You have to be a 'Type A' to get here, but you'd better switch into a 'Type B' pretty quickly."

"You might say we're successfully mellowing," adds Dana. "I think I'm a 'Type C' or 'Type D' by now."

Their plan is to island-hop to New Zealand, then reassess. So far they seem to be having the time of their lives, exploring new cultures and making new friends. "We've made more friends than we ever had in our former, furiously-working lifestyle," they say. "The cruising community is composed of giving, intelligent, gifted people. Sailing is just a small part of it all."

Alan Payne is an Australian designer. he designed the popular (in Australia) Koonya design with similar lines although mostly built in multi chine. This is the first time I've seen a yawl designed by him.

 

Alan Payne also designed a 40 foot cutter and his nephew Geoff Payne built one called Skookum and cruised extensively in high southern latitudes, winning, in 1993, the `Barton Cup' presented by the Ocean Cruising Club.

 

The photo of the boat on the hard is from Yachthub boat sales site of one currently for sale. The other is Geoff and Margaret's Skookum in Scotland.

 

 

 

 

post-14496-0-56547400-1371430138_thumb.jpg

post-14496-0-12521400-1371430274_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There aren't a lot of lobsters to be caught in Narragansett Bay.

 

Correction: There are TONS of lobsters in Narragansett Bay. By biomass (weight) they are in the top 5 species of fish and shellfish in the bay (the other biggies are skates, scup, butterfish and longfin squid). Every time I did a fish trawl in the bay we would get a half dozen or more (and trawling is definitely not the best way to catch them). The fun part of having a scientific collector's permit - you can keep whatever you catch. We were always good and only kept the legal sized ones, though - not good for the scientists to be bending the rules just to get a nice dinner when the fisherman are out there scraping a living. But I got a lot of really really fresh lobster and summer flounder from fish trawls. We'd get lots of squid, too, and I love calamari, but they were just too messy to bother with.

 

You can buy lobsters right off the boats in Jamestown (East Ferry) and Wickford.

 

I did my dissertation on the fish and macroinvertebrate (read: lobsters, squid and crabs) community of Narragansett Bay. I used a 17 year dataset from the state DEM to crunch a whole lot of numbers of fish - about 2.3 million in the dataset. Fun stuff.

 

Here's a bunch of grad students out counting and measuring fish in the West Passage of Narragansett Bay. This was early November so kind of chilly. I was the TA for the class - fish trawl was definitely everyone's favorite lab, except for the couple of folks who got seasick when we were south of Beavertail.

P1020826_zpsda1238ce.jpg

Bucket o squid... (PITA to measure - gooey and ink everywhere!)

P1020834_zps754c4763.jpg

Atlantic moonfish

P1020837_zps89c0224a.jpg

And of course, lobsters

P1020848_zps34b0444d.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites