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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Sailbydate

Coolboats to admire

8,541 posts in this topic

14 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

We all go down feet first, Pano. Much less brain damage than going down head first. 

Glad you finally learned the correct method.

 

People not used to it IME tend to try to squeeze themselves through the hatch in one go as if it was a door whereas it works very well if you treat it as a big manhole. Obviously, that's not a boatshow friendly set up. 

As an aside you would benefit from getting a Brit to explain to you how to do sarcasm, they are very good at it. Don't ask me how I know this. 

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24 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

We all go down feet first, Pano. Much less brain damage than going down head first. 

Glad you finally learned the correct method.

 

Hey, he goes down easily and safely so he has that going for him.

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10 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

Sorry, but I could not resist it.

good

 

Ille be theire foure sea trilles.                :)

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Bob, there you go spoiling everybody's fun!  On her lines?  Riiiight.  I bet you stuffed the cabin with helium balloons.

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9 minutes ago, valis said:

Bob, there you go spoiling everybody's fun!  On her lines?  Riiiight.  I bet you stuffed the cabin with helium balloons.

Rumor is he hid livestock below in the bow.

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11 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

How will I know you Snaggs?

He'll have a misspelled name-tag.

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4 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

Rumor is he hid livestock below in the bow.

Yeah, but the criticism was claiming that she was over-ballasted and would necessarily float deep when trimmed.  Thus Bob had to add negative ballast.  It's kind of like those airplane design reviews, where the comment on the blueprint says "Add lightness here."

All stupidity aside, it's a beautiful boat.

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3 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Sorry, but I could not resist it.

good

 

Wow. Just wow.

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3 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

I tende to halve a sweatey red face.

Now you've spoiled everything--I'd a been looking for the headphones!

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6 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

I tende to halve a sweatey red face.

Are you saying you look like Proa?

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9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:
15 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

I tende to halve a sweatey red face.

Are you saying you look like Proa?

Snags is a Ninja Wordsmith .....

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22 hours ago, valis said:

Bob, there you go spoiling everybody's fun!  On her lines?  Riiiight.  I bet you stuffed the cabin with helium balloons.

No, the tides out and the boat's sitting in the mud. 

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Nope. Valis was right. Cabin stuffed with helium balloons. After the pic was taken we all sat around inhaling the helium and singing sea shanties.

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Wait, wasn't the boat seatrialed on the 19th? That was International Talk Like a Pirate Day I think. 

    Here is a chance to get caught up.

 

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12 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

the 19th? That was International Talk Like a Pirate Day I think.

You arrrrgh right

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8 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

What parte our you caulleng 'the approche"

Full ahead.

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On 21.9.2017 at 0:26 PM, Whinging Pom said:

IIRC the 'domed' companionway was invented by Cees Van de Stadt.

1963 Excalibur

1.jpg

guess it was E.G. van de Stadt...

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1941 John Alden cutter OWL. Call me crazy, but as this was probably designed in the late 30's, I think the design was ahead of it's time(at that time).

36580797853_c86f0998b3_h.jpg

The tiny ports date it but the lines are timeless. 

It's been kept pretty original by the looks of the cockpit. Edson wheel; those things last longer than they ought to! Look at the winches. 

36994809450_87e9eeed7b_h.jpg

A true cutter, she goes right along in a moderate breeze. Does it look 80 years old to you? 

36580797713_042c7de0a7_h.jpg

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14 minutes ago, RKoch said:

The removeable stanchions are interesting. 

Yes and did you notice how the life lines go through a turning block aft? The removable stanchions were pretty common through the 50 or 60's, I think. My boat has similar bronze bases with a dove-tail pocket that the stanchion bases slide into. 

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Kind of reminds of Alfred Loomis's HOTSPUR.

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5 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

1941 John Alden cutter OWL. Call me crazy, but as this was probably designed in the late 30's, I think the design was ahead of it's time(at that time).

36580797853_c86f0998b3_h.jpg

The tiny ports date it but the lines are timeless. 

It's been kept pretty original by the looks of the cockpit. Edson wheel; those things last longer than they ought to! Look at the winches. 

36994809450_87e9eeed7b_h.jpg

A true cutter, she goes right along in a moderate breeze. Does it look 80 years old to you? 

36580797713_042c7de0a7_h.jpg

Chris, do you have a crank for the outhual?

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3 minutes ago, Bryanjb said:

Chris, do you have a crank for the outhual?

The crank is on the end of the boom. Simple screw mechanism....bronze so it's easy to maintain. There will be a removeable handle forward for the roller reefing worm gear. This is all CCA era hardware...right up in to the 60s. 

Friend of mine bought an old boom to hang over the bar he owned. He didn't know what it was, except it came off a boat. I explained what it was, what all the hardware did, and estimated the boat size.

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10 hours ago, RKoch said:

The crank is on the end of the boom. Simple screw mechanism....bronze so it's easy to maintain. There will be a removeable handle forward for the roller reefing worm gear. This is all CCA era hardware...right up in to the 60s. 

Friend of mine bought an old boom to hang over the bar he owned. He didn't know what it was, except it came off a boat. I explained what it was, what all the hardware did, and estimated the boat size.

Pretty standard 60's hardware. The bronze has been great in that it's easy to have material added in wear areas(had the bales built up). The outhaul made it an easy decision to go with a loose footed main. I left the sail track on for when the fiberglass hull goes all floppy, the spruce boom, which is likely to last forever, can go over a bar. :) 

37005906750_2d0c85d5c0_b.jpg

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Chris: That's a really  sweet boat.

I designed a very similar worm gear outhaul for the CT54.

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2 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

Pretty standard 60's hardware. The bronze has been great in that it's easy to have material added in wear areas(had the bales built up). The outhaul made it an easy decision to go with a loose footed main. I left the sail track on for when the fiberglass hull goes all floppy, the spruce boom, which is likely to last forever, can go over a bar. :) 

37005906750_2d0c85d5c0_b.jpg

Very cool, thank you for sharing that detail.

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My brother's Vanguard has that boom and it works pretty well. No need for a vang with that weight. Has a gear on either side of the mast so you don't have to tack to get the reef set.

That Alden is beautiful and does looks its age from the cockpit setup but in better shape than my 70 yo cutter for now.

I just installed a 24"bronze Edson spoke wheel on mine to replace the oversized 28" wheel that replaced the original tiller setup. I was going to go back to the tiller but couldn't find a good setup for the linkage controls and compass this year.

The tiller is ready to install anytime...my 5' emergency teak recurved tiller, that is

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On mizzens from up the thread...

I'm a long time ketch and yawl type, having grown up on a Block Island 40 and inherited Red Herring.  Not to mention icons like Stormvogel, Ticonderoga, and Windward Passage! Who wouldn't want a ketch! Mizzens are really useful if you know how to use them. They are not very useful on boats that race windward leeward courses, but on races with reaches, they are pretty good, and for cruising and sailing off angles not featured on race courses.  I find them really useful for all sorts of boat handling. You don't learn this stuff in sloop school. 

For starters, they will keep you head the wind. Sheet the sucker in hard and pin the helm on center and Herring will back straight down wind while I get the main up or down.   If we are sailing off the mooring, I can determine which tack we will fall off on by backing the mizzen the other way. All cool sailor stuff.  Once you are reaching, that ability to hang up extra laundry is amusing and the extra low area can push you along and add onto the miles with very little extra stress.  I can get bored, so having lots to fiddle and fuss with is part of the fun. These sails are relatively small and light and managing them is not a a chore.

The  biggest advantage is maintaining weather helm when really shortened down. As sails are reefed their center of pressures move forward. The same is true of smaller jibs. So when it really gets ugly, you find that your boat wants to fall off to leeward in the gusts as you ease the main. This is deadly bad. You can sink if you are knocked over on you beam ends. You can solve this by having a mizzen. On Red Herring we never shorten the mizzen, I have a cascading mizzen sheet with what used to be called a vernier.  It is double ended. There is a two to one for coarse trimming, which has a three to one on the opposite tail. This gives me a six to one sheet that I can hand hold if I want. So I can play the mizzen sheet and steer at the same time.  Up wind in a breeze, the mizzen is flattened as much as I can with down haul and vang. If I think I have too much helm or need to bear away, I can quickly ease the mizzen without it getting full and twisted.  If we are dealing with big puffs and have to ease the main, I can trim the mizzen to keep her head up.  

And that is before you consider going  "Jib and Jigger" which may be one of the most salutary sailing arrangements for short handed sailing in heavy air. As the name implies, you set a slightly bigger jib than you might otherwise, and the mizzen. Leave the mainsail on the boom. A very nice low pressure sail can be had when others might have a long wet day.  It isn't unprecedented to leave the mizzen up when at anchor..... I have kept one set for a week at a time, so it just sort of gets the job done.

The biggest thing wrong with yawl and ketch rigs, other than the fact that mizzens are pretty useless for sausage racing, is the cost on the second mast and the rigging and sails that go with it.  I recall Olin Stephens saying that Dorade was happiest with something like 7 Degees of rudder. That makes sense to me as it makes her keel and underbody into an assymetrical (very low aspect ratio) wing. This is true of any boat with an attached rudder and one reason why some weather helm is faster than no weather helm. 

SHC

 

 

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Seven degs of helm seems a bit much to me. I raced on DORADE when I was a kid. I don't recall that much helm but I wasn't really paying attention.

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41 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

I raced on DORADE when I was a kid.

 

IMG_5786.JPG

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