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Coolboats to admire

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^^ The boat is a piece of art.  It has a certain look that conveys a certain attitude.  Trying to perfect it might just ruin it.

I remember reading a Bob Lutz commentary in Road & Track on the consumer focus groups.  He gave the example of the Ford Thunderbird, which was an immediate hit when it was introduced in the mid-1950s.  Based on consumer feedback, they decided to make the next generation a little larger and gave it a backseat.  The car wasn't as exciting, but it still sold well.  By the mid-1960s, this effort to give the consumer what they wanted resulted in a Thunderbird with four doors.  By trying to make it better, they ruined it.  The commentary is at the following link.  http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a12469411/dont-ask-november-2017/

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On 12/15/2017 at 11:33 PM, Bull City said:

Off Center Harbor has a new video about the 26' Thunderbird designed by Ben Seaborn in 1958. I'm sure some of you PNWers know them well. They're not for everyone, but I like them:

thunderbird_drawing.thumb.jpg.9f9d6ee1b109725f793a9e193e05ac28.jpg

thunderbird_photog.jpg.25aefdf7ce3c8237028e221df933141f.jpg

 

Cool boats, one doesn't need more to have fun on the water. Plywood boats tend to sail very well even if that is counter intuitive. In the 70s in France some boat types got built in plywood and then GRP as it was the modern thing. 40 years later and the plywood boats sell at a premium as they are still going strong whereas the GRP ones are now soft and slower.

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The biggest problem with old wood T-Birds is that most of them were covered in glass with poly resin. It peels up in the corners and lets rot get started.

I once watched a guy in a yard grab a corner at the transom and walk the length of the boat peeling off the entire glass coating of the side in one piece.

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11 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

The biggest problem with old wood T-Birds is that most of them were covered in glass with poly resin. It peels up in the corners and lets rot get started.

I once watched a guy in a yard grab a corner at the transom and walk the length of the boat peeling off the entire glass coating of the side in one piece.

Yes glass with poly resin wasn't the smartest thing to do (it was tried here to). If the rot is localised you can scarf a new bit of plywood in to save the boat.

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Plywood boats tend to sail very well even if that is counter intuitive.

For a period of a couple decades at least, plywood was the lightest way to build a sailboat. That was pretty much true until core materials reduced the weight of fiberglass.

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On 12/24/2017 at 4:52 PM, SemiSalt said:

For a period of a couple decades at least, plywood was the lightest way to build a sailboat. That was pretty much true until core materials reduced the weight of fiberglass.

Yes and the chines aren't that much of a hindrance to speed. I probably wouldn't pass the test to be member of a posh yacht club but I love helming these kind of boats. They create very direct connections between helmsman, sea, wind and boat.

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On 12/24/2017 at 5:52 AM, SemiSalt said:

For a period of a couple decades at least, plywood was the lightest way to build a sailboat. That was pretty much true until core materials reduced the weight of fiberglass.

That's what I've been looking for: a carbon fiber Thunderbird.  Anybody have Jim Bett's phone number?  I want him to get started right away.  On second thought...

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24 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Just track down the Booth moulds - they built lots of glass T-Birds.

They are around here somewhere. AFAIK Booth is still alive and still doing glass work.

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

They are around here somewhere. AFAIK Booth is still alive and still doing glass work.

He was still alive when I saw him last week at the club! Not that anyone's really commissioning a new plastic 'bird...

The latest thing is to re-deck them as day boats...

Link to the article https://www.rvyc.bc.ca/index.php/the-club/blog/522-cadboro-bay-26-zig-zag.html 

 

TurboTBird.jpg

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Funny, one much like that was on Mocking CL not long ago and there was a bunch of sneering directed at it.

I think it's kinda cool.

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Really sweet looking 1/4 tonner, from the 1/4 Ton Rules Forever FB group. 1990 Spanish boat, winner that year? Presently in Ukraine it's believed.

 

image.jpeg

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With New Years coming we're promoting Alden design work for an upcoming get together at Mystic Seaport in 2018.

 

 1958: John Alden design office in Boston. 

949-sailplan-jpeg-1300-2-copy-jpg.144973

You can spot an Alden Challenger, a mile away. And an Alden Mistral, Zephyr, Countess… A prominent link in these Alden designs are the unique - large,“D” ports, first penciled on vellum in 1958.
d-ports-deck-jpg.144974

I am curious about the history of the “D” port design. Research shows similarly styled windows in auto design, in the same 1950’s era. 

I found a classic old bloke in a musty wool suit, sitting next to a vintage 1950’s Jaguar window. The flattened oval shape was in fashion when Alden drew their Challenger ports. 

the-crown-julian-broad-ss04-jpg.144975

Is this the “D” port origin, automotive style?

I like to think the designers at Alden were channeling an older form. Fashion is fleeting, Alden style was/is timeless. Here's my take: 

The shape of the ports, specifically the graceful top line on the pair of Alden Challenger “D” ports, is ancient. 

Alden’s designers drew an Elliptical shape - a perfect curve that is formed mathematically - for the top half of the pair of “D” ports.

ellipse_properties_of_directrix_and_stri

This lovely form that draws the eye, is the familiar, graceful, elliptical arch, which dates back to (and before) the Renaissance period. An elliptical arch is classic, and never goes out of style. 
019d246l-png.144978

Alden was challenged structurally, installing the big ports in the solid 16” mahogany house side. But they wanted this unique port design - dearly, and were willing to incur the added costs and complexity the “D” ports would add. 

A large laminated beam as well as full house depth drifts, were needed between the ports for strength in the weakened house side plank, between the D port cut outs. 

Alden also wanted a bright cabin below in the Challenger. They got that. 

d-ports-below-jpg.144979

To further accent their design, they used a delicate wooden trim to secure the tempered glass. The trim was proud of the house side. This element leaves a lovely shadow line that constantly changes. 

When it came time to replace the delicate port trim(years ago), I enhanced the detail by milling the stock oversized. This accents the detail by extending the trim, further out, beyond the house side(plus it should be easier to remove and replace in the future). 

trim-pieces-jpg.144980

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52 Challengers were built with Alden's signature “D” ports. 

On the eve of 60 years removed from the drafting table in Boston, Alden’s design work continues to be timeless. 

port-shape-rain_-jpg.144982

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2 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

I like to think the designers at Alden were channeling an older form. Fashion is fleeting, Alden style was/is timeless. Here's my take: 

The shape of the ports, specifically the graceful top line on the pair of Alden Challenger “D” ports, is ancient. 

Alden’s designers drew an Elliptical shape - a perfect curve that is formed mathematically - for the top half of the pair of “D” ports.

That's a lovely story and a beautiful boat.  The "D" ports are great.  But it appears to me that they are not actually ellipses.  This caught my attention because I use a pair of elliptical arches for creating crossbeam sections.  I have a Grasshopper component that has one input for the horizontal dimension ("radius") and two inputs for the vertical dimension, one for the top and one for the bottom.  It joins half of each ellipse into a curve like this:

EllipseBeam.png.c2463eea973977ff2e4417ddcdef3daf.png

When I apply that to the Alden "D" ports, using the plan drawing for dimensions (5.66' wide by 0.83' high?), there is just no way to make elliptical curves that match the drawing, even for only the top half.

D-ports.png.46e191d5672f02a7585769c8755b925d.png

The only way I can approximately match the top curve is by offsetting the ellipse, like this:

D-ports2.png.98252285dccc5e9c06018af1944a03fc.png

So my guess is that those "D" port curves are generated some other way, like with a french curve template and an artist's eye?

P.S.  This is how the 'EllipseBeam' component combines the bottom half of the outer ellipse with the top half of the inner ellipse:

EllipseBeam2.png.f937d8f79bf37de6325fcadf61fe9072.png

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36 minutes ago, ProaSailor said:

That's a lovely story and a beautiful boat.  The "D" ports are great.  But it appears to me that they are not actually ellipses.  This caught my attention because I use a pair of elliptical arches for creating crossbeam sections.  I have a Grasshopper component that has one input for the horizontal dimension ("radius") and two inputs for the vertical dimension, one for the top and one for the bottom.  It joins half of each ellipse into a curve like this:

EllipseBeam.png.c2463eea973977ff2e4417ddcdef3daf.png

When I apply that to the Alden "D" ports, using the plan drawing for dimensions (5.66' wide by 0.83' high?), there is just no way to make elliptical curves that match the drawing, even for only the top half.

D-ports.png.46e191d5672f02a7585769c8755b925d.png

The only way I can approximately match the top curve is by offsetting the ellipse, like this:

D-ports2.png.98252285dccc5e9c06018af1944a03fc.png

So my guess is that those "D" port curves are generated some other way, like with a french curve template and an artist's eye?

P.S.  This is how the 'EllipseBeam' component combines the bottom half of the outer ellipse with the top half of the inner ellipse:

EllipseBeam2.png.f937d8f79bf37de6325fcadf61fe9072.png

Good eye, and true I think. But the actual ports in my house, are curiously, not the flattened ovals you see on the plan drawing. In fact the D ports are not the same from builder to builder. Perhaps the elliptical shape that I think my boat (and others that were finished at the Molich yard in Denmark), I believe are elliptical. I should have a better shot but this on e shows the elliptical top line, the best. 

d-ports-deck-jpg.144974

Plus I spent so much time cutting a template for the new trim, I got to know the shape,...more than I wanted to. Perhaps the credit should go to Poul Molich in Denmark(long deceased). 

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

They're not flying the mizzen balloon staysail!

FB- Doug

Yeah, interesting. That's right at the turn, so maybe they just jibed (vang's not fully on either).  Or it could be puffy and gusty swirling winds in the lee of the island, and the staysail was one more thing they didn't want to fuck with.  No spin staysail forward, either...

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2 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

26116268_948459081971075_161643052972386

Serious mizzen trim people. 

They're stacking sails...throw them out! Lol!

couple of notes: I didn't realize how much original deck hardware they kept. Running lights on screens lashed to lower shrouds. Tiller near centerline, boat balances well. I wonder what the canvas-covered contraption on afterdeck is?

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53 minutes ago, RKoch said:

They're stacking sails...throw them out! Lol!

couple of notes: I didn't realize how much original deck hardware they kept. Running lights on screens lashed to lower shrouds. Tiller near centerline, boat balances well. I wonder what the canvas-covered contraption on afterdeck is?

Kind of high but could it be a winch of some kind(maybe hydraulic or electric)? I was looking at the double ended mainsheet arrangement, there are a lot of lines to trim. 

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

They're stacking sails...throw them out! Lol!

couple of notes: I didn't realize how much original deck hardware they kept. Running lights on screens lashed to lower shrouds. Tiller near centerline, boat balances well. I wonder what the canvas-covered contraption on afterdeck is?

Its the astronav-droid!   Does all the sights and reductions to get you your no-GPS position.   They have its daylight cover so it can sleep during the day.

Stumbling

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Kris, on Restive, design #1250, each oval fixed port is slightly smaller as you go forward, matching the taper of the cabin trunk. I'd love to get you aboard sometime.

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45 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Kris, on Restive, design #1250, each oval fixed port is slightly smaller as you go forward, matching the taper of the cabin trunk. I'd love to get you aboard sometime.

Why don't you come to the event at Mystic Seaport this summer?

 

They have fit our Alden get together in the weekend event for Classic Yachts and the Seaports Antique yacht event. Space is reserved, dates are set but details are still being worked out by the Seaport and an Alden owner out of Stonington Conn. Updates on the event will be posted on our Facebook page, Alden Yachts. I'm planning on sailing down. 

24955665_712446152297610_301062852736050

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1 hour ago, Kris Cringle said:

Why don't you come to the event at Mystic Seaport this summer?

 

They have fit our Alden get together in the weekend event for Classic Yachts and the Seaports Antique yacht event. Space is reserved, dates are set but details are still being worked out by the Seaport and an Alden owner out of Stonington Conn. Updates on the event will be posted on our Facebook page, Alden Yachts. I'm planning on sailing down. 

24955665_712446152297610_301062852736050

I should be back from Newfoundland by then, but I'll have to check the timing for the Eggemoggin Reach Regatta. It would be ideal to do both. Thanks! I didn't know about this.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Ed said:

Nice. Running backs in the mizzen so you can square it off. More string needed!

Mizzen running backs are to support mast when mizzen staysail or spinnaker is up. Normally aft lowers alone are sufficient to support mast when only mizzen is up.

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3 hours ago, RKoch said:

Mizzen running backs are to support mast when mizzen staysail or spinnaker is up. Normally aft lowers alone are sufficient to support mast when only mizzen is up.

Not if you want to square it off like that. They don’t have aft lowers at all on this setup but then the mizzen sail itself is a bit of a gesture being so small. The mast has to be there for historical reasons of course, as well as providing something to hang the staysail off. It may still measure well as well. 

Have you all seen this film from 1931?

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Mr. Ed said:

Not if you want to square it off like that. They don’t have aft lowers at all on this setup but then the mizzen sail itself is a bit of a gesture being so small. The mast has to be there for historical reasons of course, as well as providing something to hang the staysail off. It may still measure well as well. 

Have you all seen this film from 1931?

 

 

 

Tnx for the vid, I'll watch it.

In my somewhat limited experience with yawl rigs, the mizzen is so small the runners aren't used with just the mizzen set. Aft lowers was more than enough. One yawl (a Finisterre sister ship) didn't even have tackles, the back stay was set up with a pelican hook to a pad eye, somewhat loose. Mizzen is usually first sail dropped when wind picks up. Letting sail out all the way doesn't happen...when wind is that far aft mizzen is dropped so it doesn't blanket mainsail.

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8 hours ago, RKoch said:

Tnx for the vid, I'll watch it.

In my somewhat limited experience with yawl rigs, the mizzen is so small the runners aren't used with just the mizzen set. Aft lowers was more than enough. One yawl (a Finisterre sister ship) didn't even have tackles, the back stay was set up with a pelican hook to a pad eye, somewhat loose. Mizzen is usually first sail dropped when wind picks up. Letting sail out all the way doesn't happen...when wind is that far aft mizzen is dropped so it doesn't blanket mainsail.

That's how my yawl is rigged. Over rigged, actually. There are 8 rigging deck attachments. The pelican hooks are easy to reach back and release from the cockpit, which you have to do shortly after turning off the wind. The jumpers begin to hit the mizzen quickly off the wind. Both jumpers are released here in this photo on a near beam reach.

36758385853_fc85aff7ee_h.jpg

The best thing about the jumpers is stepping-un stepping the mast: Easy for a helper to hook the pelicans aft and tie off a halyard forward-pronto, stepping the mizzen by hand at the docks. 

I think I've seen some Concordia's with no jumper stays. And maybe with only one that can be hooked to the stern pulpit when a staysail or spinnaker is rigged?

34615263363_8ac8adb15a_h.jpg

The pelican hooked jumpers are pretty common even on larger yawls like this one, SAYONARA a Nielsen yawl. 

35871553222_17084be69d_h.jpg

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10 hours ago, Bull City said:

Ya' lost me. Where are the runners or jumpers?

In the first shot, the running backstays are un-hooked from the pad eyes, the pelican hooks are loosely draped on the lower lifelines. See them just above each corner of the transom. 

On the third shot of SAYONARA the running backs are connected above the letter S and A on SAYONARA. If you look real close you can see the Pelican hook levers. 

There appears to be no running backs on SPICE, the Concordia yawl. They could be stowed at the mast or maybe the owner doesn't use a staysail and simply leaves them off. Not a bad idea, they are an annoyance that are only needed running a staysail. Then they keep the mizzen stayed against the forces of the staysail. 

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Thanks, Kris. I have never had to deal with runners. I would probably destroy the rig.

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On 9. 10. 2017 at 12:45 PM, sam55 said:

I also found one great boat to "admire". Hopefully nobody sunk with this one. On the other hand this one is as anarchy as it can get. :D

Heard that one such beauty just sank in shipyard. Well at least you dont have to swim too far. :D

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On 12/31/2017 at 12:13 PM, stumblingthunder said:

Its the astronav-droid!   Does all the sights and reductions to get you your no-GPS position.   They have its daylight cover so it can sleep during the day.

Stumbling

I was thinking it looked like a small Big Green Egg.  Must be great to have the BBQ going while crossing the Bass Straight!

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3 hours ago, Matagi said:

That's the latest incarnation of a Waarschip, right? Cool.

Love the nail marks along the laps ...

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Saw this on facebook today.  Amazing.
 

 

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Just found out that there will be a 4 or 5 vessel fleet of tallships headed to Pensacola soon headlined by the PRIDE OF BALTIMORE! They will be offering hour long rides for $60 or so. May have to do that.

http://www.sailtraining.org/tallships/2018Gulf/TSC2018index.php

FUN FACTS: ∙ The Pensacola TALL SHIPS CHALLENGE® Gulf Coast 2018 is the first of its kind and will celebrate Pensacola maritime history. ∙ One of three host ports in the Tall Ships® Gulf Coast Race Series. ∙ Elissa is returning to Pensacola after 132 years. The Elissa’s last voyage to Pensacola was in the 1886. The vessel is on the National Register of Historic Places. ∙ The When and If was commissioned by General Patton in 1939. Named from this quote by the general, “When the war is over, and If I live thro

https://www.visitpensacola.com/tall-ships/

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46 minutes ago, Bull City said:

Another cool pair from Portugal. Love the guy bailing.

 

Looks like the fronts are falling off.

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1 hour ago, Bull City said:

Another cool pair from Portugal. Love the guy bailing.

 

Tremendous.

New to me.

See what too much forestay tension does to your boat.

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Restive-8895.jpg.332a8f6c2d9d3f0b9719171efa88821d.jpg

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I just posted the pic, I didn't say it's mine.

 

But yeah, it is my boat. Slick was aboard in Bermuda last summer, iirc. 

Nothing will ever convince me I'm anything more than a loser who has been preposterously blessed and fortunate in life. I spend a lot of time giving thanks.

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On 1/10/2018 at 8:50 AM, OSPREY said:

2AF3A438-D1A6-4953-ABE0-BD9CF6171457.jpeg

water in the cockpit would not be an option then ?

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21 minutes ago, Mid said:

water in the cockpit would not be an option then ?

Water? On the ocean? Chance in a million.

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well played , I did leave that door open didn't I .

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:
1 hour ago, Mid said:

water in the cockpit would not be an option then ?

Water? On the ocean? Chance in a million.

The helmsperson is supposed to shelter the electrical panel.

Multi tasking

FB- Doug

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Bloody Labor of Love that be for sure ,

 

wonder where the time to actually go sailing comes from ?

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18 minutes ago, Mid said:

Bloody Labor of Love that be for sure ,

 

wonder where the time to actually go sailing comes from ?

Anytime they want - just send the maintenance crew ashore.

I'd like to know what varnish they use so I could buy stock in the company.

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