• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

TimFordi550#87

Yet Another Offshore rescue

Recommended Posts

Easy for me to say from the comfort of my office squalor, but I sorta wonder about some of the decisions made with regard to this delivery.

 

From today's Baltimore Sumpaper [sic]: http://www.baltimore...0,3683620.story

 

CG video of rescue:

 

IP-SP cruiser: http://www.cruisingw...the-motorsailer

 

This thing draws, what, 4 feet? Might The Ditch have been a better choice?

 

(edit: sorry if this has already been covered...been away from SA, largely, as of late and too lazy to do a search)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like some marginal planning that turned worse and worse although I cannot quite see that it should have turned out to become a rescue and abandon scenario. Why they couldn't just put up the small rags and sail the thing is beyond me - but then again, I don't know the whole story

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree. And true, we do not know the whole story.

Yet, anyone as credentialed-up as the delivery skipper should gave recognized the potential for this:

 

post-768-0-36298200-1364506258_thumb.jpg

 

to turn into this:

 

post-768-0-79656600-1364506303_thumb.jpg

 

especially with the weather pattern that has been in place and amply demonstrated since late January on the Mid-Atlantic....and then going to

face those conditions in this:

 

post-768-0-76456700-1364506553.jpg (photo credit Billy Black)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was about to post this - WTF were they THINKING????????????

Did they sleep though the whole Bounty thing?????

 

Storm - check

In a hurry - check

Go around Hatteras in the WRONG time of year - check

Get hauled out of mess by USCG - check

 

I have to say a freaking storm jib would have done them a world of good. I once sailed past a steel ketch that was getting so abused by breaking waves no one could even man her. They were letting her run under autopilot and mostly puking below. I was like "look - sails - they do wonders for that nasty rolling motion - you should try them" ;)

 

 

Also there is an invention called the ICW - perhaps someone should inform these guys about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That looks like the perfect boat for the ICW.

 

That being said, I'm not suggesting the boat is incapable of weathering an Atlantic storm. I don't know the boat so I'm not qualified say with certainty, but since that's never been a prerequisite of posting on SA, I'll continue by saying that once these fellers made the decision to cast off, they shouldn't have been so quick on the red-phone to the cavalry when the diesel shit the bed and someone bonked their noggin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I couldn't even be bothered to read the press release or watch the video. I am so sick of retards going out into shit weather and getting into trouble...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to hijack, but does anyone have any updates on dredging or lack thereof on the ICW?

I read somewhere a few years ago that it had shoaled up to around 4' in some spots and

funding had been cut for dredging.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree. And true, we do not know the whole story.

Yet, anyone as credentialed-up as the delivery skipper should gave recognized the potential for this:

 

post-768-0-36298200-1364506258_thumb.jpg

 

to turn into this:

 

post-768-0-79656600-1364506303_thumb.jpg

 

especially with the weather pattern that has been in place and amply demonstrated since late January on the Mid-Atlantic....and then going to

face those conditions in this:

 

post-768-0-76456700-1364506553.jpg (photo credit Billy Black)

 

On a three hour tour......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The courage and ability of the Coasties in this rescue are quite amazing.

 

The boat itself looked to be handling the seas quite well. I mean, I have had a Swan 65 totally airborne, and never felt like it was time to key the mike.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe in situations like this -- where the Coasties get on scene, and can see that the boat really isn't in distresss -- they should just call the sailors out: "Hey, don't be a wimp. You can handle this. When you get back to the bar you can tell us all about it." Like this:

 

A wet sea sick sailor comes into a bar. "Man, yesterday, the seas off Hatteras were so rough, I blew chunks! Called the Coast Guard, but they just said I was being a pussy!"

 

The drunk on the next stool said "Oh, that's nothing. Last night, I got so drunk I got into a fist fight with that damn fucker in the boat next to mine -- he was on my boat! Of course, after beating him with a Lewmar winch handle, I realized my boat has only Harken winches."

 

The drunk on the next stool said, "That is funny, but here's what happened to ME last night! I brought a chick back to the boat, and my husband was there! And the bitch slapped me, saying, 'Keep your hands off my man!'"

 

But the sea sick sailor said, "No, you don't understand! Chunks is my dog!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the "fateful" decisions appears to be that once they were waved off both Hatteras and the next inlet north, Oregon Inlet, they turned south and attempted to pound their way into a gale. Why, after being waved off at Oregon, did they then turn south again? (The article calls it the "only option" which of course it wasn't!) They didn't want to stand out to sea? Perhaps they really didn't have confidence in the boat as a sea boat? Why they would believe the synoptic forecast for waves would have anything to do with that particularly nasty shoal bit of water, god only knows.

 

Crew fatigue is almost certainly a key element to this whole story. These men had spent considerable time at sea--albeit in big comfortable ships with heated pilothouses, a fresh pot of coffee etc. Being pounded at night is terrifying by comparison. Once exhausted, decisions become difficult. Only 2 aboard a small boat at sea is always risky--you need to make much more conservative decisions when you have so little crew. (That Joshua Slocum made it around the world is still to this day an extraordinary feat.)

 

If they had turned north--if they had taken the whole "got to get there" out of it, turning north and run off, they may have gotten away with it.

 

From a seamanship standpoint, I can't believe they still have the roller-furled sails up! And not a stitch of canvas? Trying to motor into a gale at sea? Did they never plan to touch the sails? that seems so strange. Doesn't make any sense, but again, I think exhaustion is a big part of this.

 

I also assume they had no familiarity with the boat. They didn't know it well at all. Delivery skippers jump on all sorts of boats, but, if the boat is outside your previous experience, and you are not confident with its handling, that is yet another consideration.

 

The takeaway really isn't to throw stones. It is to look inward--as we all do--and to feel that little uneasy piece of near subconscious saying, "would I have made the same 'mistakes'?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's pretend I am a retard and know nothing. But these dimwits didn't know current outlet conditions, didn't have a sea anchor, didn't know how to heave to, and are fucking pussies to have called the Coast Guard just because they were scared. 300 lbs mate? Feed him to fishes - do something good for the ocean.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The boat is rigged with two roller furled headsails on the bow, an in mast furler, radar, a substantial superstructure; that's a lot of weight and windage aloft with only 3'8" of draft. No wonder they were getting knocked down.

 

If you examine the footage the boat just looks too tender for a big blow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeebus-On-A-Moped those guys are dumb. This boat should have "ICW CRUISER ENJOY YOUR TRIP" engraved in the pilothouse so these numbnuts would know what the boat was intended to do!

 

The boat is rigged with two roller furled headsails on the bow, an in mast furler, radar, a substantial superstructure; that's a lot of weight and windage aloft with only 3'8" of draft. No wonder they were getting knocked down.

 

If you examine the footage the boat just looks too tender for a big blow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having lived in annapolis for ten plus years, I can say with certainy I have never seen more "delivery" captains in a single area then here. I would say I wouldn't trust 80% of them to drive a bow rider across a puddle on a sunny day in July. I also say that as I am a captain, and a former enlisted member of the USCG. Amazed at the people who don't vet there captains or don't get them covered under there insurance for the delivery, I certainly hope this owner at least gets covered. Also glad to see the captains name was used so future people see this story and maybe not hired again!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeebus-On-A-Moped those guys are dumb. This boat should have "ICW CRUISER ENJOY YOUR TRIP" engraved in the pilothouse so these numbnuts would know what the boat was intended to do!

 

Hah, yeah! My sentiments, exactly, and pretty much the reason why I started this thread.

 

Major props to the CG SAR guys and gals on this mission. When the VOX mic is engaged, you can hear how much breeze they are fighting. Camera shots, espec. overhead, always belie how wretched a sea-state is.

 

I wonder if the swimmers ever have the thought going on in their heads, "why am I bothering to risk my life for this potential Darwin Award winner?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally watched the rescue video. Those guys are so good, the voice commands make it seem like they are doing an exercise on a nice calm sunny day. Real pro's!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coast Guard SAR once again astonishing.

 

Like all other comments, this one is skeptical of judgement however: whileIn the video the sails are furled that does not mean they weren't 'reefed' and hove to since I believe he CQ would tell them to get rid of all windage if possible before rescue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
specially with the weather pattern that has been in place and amply demonstrated since late January on the Mid-Atlantic....and then going to

face those conditions in this:

 

post-768-0-76456700-1364506553.jpg (photo credit Billy Black)

You should be careful talkin smack about other boats. I've heard you're planning an offshore trip on something not far different. Did you get the photos?

 

The thermal images at the beginning of the vid are pretty cool, you can certainly see the people as hot spots going in the drink.

 

The IP in question was simply doing as all the IPs I have ever seen in Maine, motoring. An IP is perfect for motoring through a lovely sailing breeze.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I take anything away from this thread, is that the Coasties practice this alot...

Good for them..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
specially with the weather pattern that has been in place and amply demonstrated since late January on the Mid-Atlantic....and then going to

face those conditions in this:

 

post-768-0-76456700-1364506553.jpg (photo credit Billy Black)

You should be careful talkin smack about other boats. I've heard you're planning an offshore trip on something not far different. Did you get the photos?

 

The thermal images at the beginning of the vid are pretty cool, you can certainly see the people as hot spots going in the drink.

 

The IP in question was simply doing as all the IPs I have ever seen in Maine, motoring. An IP is perfect for motoring through a lovely sailing breeze.

 

HAH HAH! yeah, well....my point was more about the decisions, than the platform. Sure, I can picture the IP puttering into Schoodic Harbor at sunset, no problem. WNA...off Hatteras? hmmm....I dunno. Besides, if you've got Diamond Shoals as a way-point on the fast-track to Bermuda, then maybe I SHOULD consider that personal EPIRB :D

 

[Pics are terrific thanks for the reminder....they got buried in a swamp of email this week...]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excerpts from the exciting story, heroic rescue - all avoidable: Survivors of March 6 shipwreck were all but lost at sea

 

"Even my father has said, 'Why go out in those conditions? Why not wait a few days?'" recalled Southward.

 

"As professionals, our job is to deliver the vessel as quickly and safely as possible," Schoenberger said.

 

The 300-pound Southward was resting below deck after midnight when a wave jarred the hull, knocking him from his bunk. Another broke the glass inside a microwave.

 

"The storm went off-script," he said.

 

The choices were now two: eight hours north with a following sea to Oregon Inlet, or 12 hours into gale-force winds to Morehead City.

 

They headed north, the waves 14 feet high and breaking at the crests. An hour later came another call: "Andante, we have to tell you that Oregon Inlet has been closed to navigation."

 

They might be enjoying Morehead City right now, they realized, had they not just spent 10 hours motoring in basically the same spot.

 

They prayed. They spoke of things they'd do differently if they lived.

 

Southward hit full throttle up the front of each wave, then cut power at the top. "Mistime that and your 30,000-pound boat dropped 30 feet," he said.

 

Gusts blew Andante nearly on her side; the first mate dropped 10 feet through space.

 

Wonder what happened to the boat?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wonder what happened to the boat?

 

It's an Island Packet. No doubt it's drifting around the Atlantic in fine shape. Verrrr'a slowly. And a little sideways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are the conditions: http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/data/realtime2/44095.txt for buoy 44095 (http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=44095) just north of Hatteras, right off Oregon Inlet. Just scroll down to the date/time. I know the buoy is a kind of far out from Cape Lookout but that one has been down for awhile.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites