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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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badrad187

Viper 640 Fleet on the west coast????

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Where is the west coast fleet? I belive ive seen to new boats make thier way to the bay. Anymore on order? Do we see a future? :huh:

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Where is the west coast fleet? I belive ive seen to new boats make thier way to the bay. Anymore on order? Do we see a future? :huh:

 

Long Beach

King Harbor

Mission Bay

Arizona

San Diego

 

Spinnaker Sailing in San Francisco is the home of Drew Harper the main man for Vipers on the West Coast

 

More on order Yes... I just built 4 sets of new sails for brand new Vipers

 

Huge Fleet at Long Beach Race Week this year.

 

Yes there is a future.

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Plus the 2014 North American Championship is at Alamitos Bay Yacht Club.

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Send me a PM, I can get you out most anywhere on the Left Coast.

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Where is the west coast fleet? I belive ive seen to new boats make thier way to the bay. Anymore on order? Do we see a future? :huh:

 

Long Beach

King Harbor

Mission Bay

Arizona

San Diego

 

Spinnaker Sailing in San Francisco is the home of Drew Harper the main man for Vipers on the West Coast

 

More on order Yes... I just built 4 sets of new sails for brand new Vipers

 

Huge Fleet at Long Beach Race Week this year.

 

Yes there is a future.

 

And Monterey...

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....and Perth....

It's just a bit further west than the others.... But it's got 8 viper fleet you're welcome to join!!!

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Let's not forget those of us in the Seattle/Vancouver area.

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Let's not forget those of us in the Seattle/Vancouver area.

 

Yeah there is a good fleet there too! I know I missed a few but with the rapid growth of the fleet on the West Coast it is hard to keep track!

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Wow sounds like the growth is rapid which is awesome. Next question any plans for a PCC. Also does anyone know how many boats on the San Fransisco Bay. The reason why i ask is because im planning on a new toy in the next year and will be mostly in the bay. im 95% on the viper train but i see a lot of 5.70 on the water here in the bay. Just doing my research before i buy a boat that ill probably have for the next 5-10 years and seeing as i dont plan to move from the bay it would be nice to be in a OD fleet.

Thanks for the feed back guys.
BadRad

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Bad, our PCC is @ Hutington Lake this year, probaby 18-20 boats.. Try out both boats and pick your favorite.. Open Fleets are in SF and Del Rey, Vipers are more spread out and sail more venues. There is a lot of push to get the Vipe to critical mass on the Bay, It just has not popped yet, but will.... :)

 

Wow sounds like the growth is rapid which is awesome. Next question any plans for a PCC. Also does anyone know how many boats on the San Fransisco Bay. The reason why i ask is because im planning on a new toy in the next year and will be mostly in the bay. im 95% on the viper train but i see a lot of 5.70 on the water here in the bay. Just doing my research before i buy a boat that ill probably have for the next 5-10 years and seeing as i dont plan to move from the bay it would be nice to be in a OD fleet.

Thanks for the feed back guys.
BadRad

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Hey there...sorry for the late reply. Been up to my ass in epoxy...SC 50 restoration.

 

We have active fleets all over. Truth is, nearly half the boats being made in Peabody are headed West. 4 coming in the next 8 weeks.

 

 

Here's my take on SF Bay

 

- Open 5.7 - It's is a good boat for the Bay as there's an active class...good folks too. The boat is pretty underwicked, which is good for the Bay. Barry, from J-World has been the rep. Great Guy!

 

J-70 - There's now 4 in the Bay. Two more on the Way. Not much chance the J70 won't be a good class in the Bay. I've sailed it here and frankly, it's a great boat. $55K landed with Q's or Blue Bags. If you want one...I can sell it to you ;-)

 

K6 - I love this boat for the Bay. Takes a lickin and keeps on tickin. I sail this one solo. New boat up at RYC and another on the way ending up in RWC. At $25K for a new boat, on a trailer with North sails, damn near unbeatable! We are whittling away at the NorCal PHRF and will get all the new boats with keels smaller than 400 lbs some sort of rating for the new NorCal YRA Sprotboat Division :-))))

 

Viper - Absolutely the MOST fun on the Bay...also the most challenging as the boat starts planing in 12 TWS. in 25 TWS it's damn near ballistic. The COOLEST thing about the Viper is the boat sails so damn well in the chop...even the big chop. Boat is fun on the Circle, fun on the CityFront, WAY fun for Vallejo, fun up at Richmond, Redwood City and beyond. We have 6 boats in the greater Bay. 1 doesn't sail at all. It's at RYC and I wish someone would convince him to sell and get that boat on the line. New boat down in Monterey and I suspect we are going to see some boats in Santa Cruz soon too :-D

 

One of my favorite parts about the Viper fleet is the ability to race in SF Bay, Huntington Lake (2013 PCC's) Long Beach (2014 NA's), San Diego, Ventura, Seattle, Marblehead, Charleston, Miami, Houston (2013 NA's), Annapolis, WLIS...etc. In the West, we have an awesome circuit. The absolute BEST part of the Viper fleet is that every single boat at the front of the fleet works hard to make the back of the fleet faster! Hard to find a friendlier class.

 

I can set you up for demo on Viper, K6 and J70 (will have one at our docks soon). Gimme a call or ping me.

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Hey there...sorry for the late reply. Been up to my ass in epoxy...SC 50 restoration.

 

We have active fleets all over. Truth is, nearly half the boats being made in Peabody are headed West. 4 coming in the next 8 weeks.

 

 

Here's my take on SF Bay

 

- Open 5.7 - It's is a good boat for the Bay as there's an active class...good folks too. The boat is pretty underwicked, which is good for the Bay. Barry, from J-World has been the rep. Great Guy!

 

J-70 - There's now 4 in the Bay. Two more on the Way. Not much chance the J70 won't be a good class in the Bay. I've sailed it here and frankly, it's a great boat. $55K landed with Q's or Blue Bags. If you want one...I can sell it to you ;-)

 

K6 - I love this boat for the Bay. Takes a lickin and keeps on tickin. I sail this one solo. New boat up at RYC and another on the way ending up in RWC. At $25K for a new boat, on a trailer with North sails, damn near unbeatable! We are whittling away at the NorCal PHRF and will get all the new boats with keels smaller than 400 lbs some sort of rating for the new NorCal YRA Sprotboat Division :-))))

 

Viper - Absolutely the MOST fun on the Bay...also the most challenging as the boat starts planing in 12 TWS. in 25 TWS it's damn near ballistic. The COOLEST thing about the Viper is the boat sails so damn well in the chop...even the big chop. Boat is fun on the Circle, fun on the CityFront, WAY fun for Vallejo, fun up at Richmond, Redwood City and beyond. We have 6 boats in the greater Bay. 1 doesn't sail at all. It's at RYC and I wish someone would convince him to sell and get that boat on the line. New boat down in Monterey and I suspect we are going to see some boats in Santa Cruz soon too :-D

 

One of my favorite parts about the Viper fleet is the ability to race in SF Bay, Huntington Lake (2013 PCC's) Long Beach (2014 NA's), San Diego, Ventura, Seattle, Marblehead, Charleston, Miami, Houston (2013 NA's), Annapolis, WLIS...etc. In the West, we have an awesome circuit. The absolute BEST part of the Viper fleet is that every single boat at the front of the fleet works hard to make the back of the fleet faster! Hard to find a friendlier class.

 

I can set you up for demo on Viper, K6 and J70 (will have one at our docks soon). Gimme a call or ping me.AS

 

As a new Viper owner in the Pacific Northwest I can echo the fact that this is a GREAT and very helpful class. The boat is a hoot to sail too!

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We will have over 20 on the line for Long Beach Race week, and probably a similar pack for High Sierra. The Viper class is definatly on the move and growing out west.

 

Sporties are the future, just look around... even Sailing World says so..... B)

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We have Timbo to thank for this. Nice Job !

 

This is going to be a FUN year of racing!

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Great Eric!

#33 in Fresno now

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Eric, let me know when you want to go to Monterey and I'll meet you there with #189. Maybe we can get the other few NorCal vipes to join use too!

 

You REALLY should come to LBRW. Tin rig boats ROCK LBRW....just ask Timbo.

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....and Perth....

It's just a bit further west than the others.... But it's got 8 viper fleet you're welcome to join!!!

technically speaking, I think you are to the east no ?

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That's my old boat - good to see she is still being raced

#33 in Fresno now

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Countdown to 20 for LBRW.

 

We're at 16 now :-)

 

Looking forward to our first 20 boat starting line on the West.

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The Viper class currently is in with the largest fleet at both Cal RW and LBRW. The Viper class is booming in So Cal.

 

Join in, it's where you want to be... :)

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....and Perth....

It's just a bit further west than the others.... But it's got 8 viper fleet you're welcome to join!!!

technically speaking, I think you are to the east no ?

Turn around, you are facing the wrong way!

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The Viper class currently is in with the largest fleet at both Cal RW and LBRW. The Viper class is booming in So Cal.

 

Join in, it's where you want to be... :)

 

Now at 20 for LBRW!

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Now 23. Largest class LBRW has seen in years :P

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up to 23 now with just under a month to go.... next target 25? 28? :P

 

Come on, you know you want to check out the vibe in the Viper group..

 

Largest fleet @ LBRW, quickest, easist, most affordable of the 20 something sporties.

 

What's not to like

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Tim,

 

Well done !

 

But watch the hyper bole :)

 

 

Snags wants to know if that is like bigger than the Super Bowl ?

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Long Beach Race Week has become THE West Coast Viper event on the West Coast with a 80% participation level..

4 out of 5 active West Coast Vipes will be in town to play in our sandbox. 12-18kts everyday, Rum, Beer, Brats, Bods and smiles.
ABYC is the place to be..
:P

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Timbo...I've scheduled up some post race rehab for you. The Goslings is ordered and one sippy cup is on it's way to you (no more gobblet-o-rum for you my friend).

 

LBRW is going to be EPIC. Throwing down for the Viper class....we OWN the parties. RIGHT?

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dear sir schooner, I heard ye are the man to talk to for a crusted over olde multi sailor to try a sport boat in s.f. I may be up there in the next couple of weeks. Whatchye got?

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Currently a shiny Viper 640, a sweet K6 and if you toss in the new J70, pretty much everything. The J70 is pretty active at a bunch of Cans. Also can hook you up with Seadon at North for an M20 sail or Barry at JWorld for a Open 5.7 ride.

 

I've a friend here with Thompson 650, another with a Thompson 590, both active.

 

If you really get a hankerin'...a 1.5 hour plane ride to Dago and you can sail the Shaw 650 with the Ed.

 

While you're down, swing by ABYC for Long Beach Race Week. I hear there's a bit of a Viper party there...bring your liver, you'll need it.

 

Whatcha interested in?

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I would like to spend about half a day ona sporty in the bay, been doing multis forever but want to see if a little sportster would make me feel all gooey inside. Some of them new ones sure look effortlessly fun. What is your HQ i.d?

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Not sure about the half day...can try to find you a ride on something going out.

 

Me best email is drew@rondarboats.com

 

Let me know the date's you're in town and we can try to hook you up.

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question...is the tuning guide fully up to date? any recent adds or mods? i notice no mention of any forestay adjustment through the ranges...so no one plays with rake??? also it appears as if the boat i will be playing with has pinned lowers but it sounds from the guide like the norm is for calibrated turnbuckles (which is preferable imo)...true? i see no mention of pole out to halyard up configuration (skiff style) being prohibited...true? boat is currently rigged with separate pole line and that needs to change if legal to do so. lastly i saw that bridle or mid boom is acceptable...with bridle config is it legal to sheet directly off boom (once again a better system in our opinion)? thanks

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The tuning guide is best to get from whatever sailmaker you are using. Even Norths tuning guide was a little off and they just recently put out one with changes. Doyles, Ullmans, and Norths all have different luff curves, so this will affect your tuning. I dont believe anyone plays with the forestay. I think they measure to the number that the length is suppose to be and then just adjust the tension through the rig in different conditions. Some boats have the pinned lowers. You can kinda get away with it in the viper because you are not adjusting the lowers all that much, however def turnbuckles are better. Not sure if thats an upgrade or they are standard now on a new viper. I could be wrong, but I dont think any vipers have a pole out to halyard configuration. I believe they all are separate and I dont know if there are any class rules against making them together. I believe it is legal to sheet directly off the boom, but most of the top guys are using the bridle mid and aft set up.

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question...is the tuning guide fully up to date? any recent adds or mods? i notice no mention of any forestay adjustment through the ranges...so no one plays with rake??? also it appears as if the boat i will be playing with has pinned lowers but it sounds from the guide like the norm is for calibrated turnbuckles (which is preferable imo)...true? i see no mention of pole out to halyard up configuration (skiff style) being prohibited...true? boat is currently rigged with separate pole line and that needs to change if legal to do so. lastly i saw that bridle or mid boom is acceptable...with bridle config is it legal to sheet directly off boom (once again a better system in our opinion)? thanks

 

Sailmakers do a good job keeping their tuning guides up to date.

Even more important the top guys in the fleet regularly pass out the tweaks they make to their settings via posts on the Viper forums or in the class newsletters.

 

Most play with their initial rake and mast butt to get a balanced helm and then leave it. The mast is relatively auto tune in that regard. As the breeze comes up and the prebend sets in, the rake feels right. We've all played with various combinations of rake vs mast butt position and it turns out that the base setting works across the breeze spectrum. You are not allowed to adjust head stay length during the day so its risky to try an extreme and have the wind change. The uppers are the biggest variable.

 

Three person boat, so no need for the extra risk of a foul up by having halyard to pole. Two crew means the pole goes out and the spin goes up instantaneously in the hoist. Less friction in the system and more importantly, in the dowse, if something jams the pole.....you can still dowse the chute.

 

The shroud adjusters are PITA to set vs an open body turnbuckle. Most boats get open body turnbuckle for lowers but don't bother with calibrated and just count turns. Shroud adjusters work, they are just harder to change on the water and you don't need the range of shroud adjusters .

 

The typical main config is to have the ratchet block on the boom, so yes in big breeze, when vang sheeting I sometimes sheet off the boom. But you will be amazed how much more sensitive you can be with main trim by coming off the deck mounted pedestal. In medium and light, you can continuously and easily click in one click and click out one click. When hiking, the angle of sheeting to the pedestal is perfect for using your upper body to help sheet in, so your torso muscles hooch in the main with a big hike. In super light air I will sheet 1:1 off the boom to keep the leech open. The trick is getting the angle of the cleat on the pedestal right for your as a helm. It is nice to occasionally take a rest and cleat the main

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Good Luck Aa. have fun and if you find something that works....share it on the Viper forums.

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Plus one on checking your sailmaker's tuning guide. Doyle does recommend shortening the forestay as the wind builds. As for the mainsheet, nothing to stop you grabbing it wherever you want (ie, at the boom) but class rules <http://www.viper640.org/class-assoc/class-rules> require the front bridle, so VX-style sheeting with an open cockpit is a no-no. Lots of boats still have pinned lowers--pretty sure they are still standard from the builder. Basically only 2 settings for them.

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question...is the tuning guide fully up to date? any recent adds or mods? i notice no mention of any forestay adjustment through the ranges...so no one plays with rake??? also it appears as if the boat i will be playing with has pinned lowers but it sounds from the guide like the norm is for calibrated turnbuckles (which is preferable imo)...true? i see no mention of pole out to halyard up configuration (skiff style) being prohibited...true? boat is currently rigged with separate pole line and that needs to change if legal to do so. lastly i saw that bridle or mid boom is acceptable...with bridle config is it legal to sheet directly off boom (once again a better system in our opinion)? thanks

The tuning guide on the Rondar USA site http://www.rondarboats.com/us/viper-640-resources/ was written around the Hyde sails that were once the standard supplied kit. We have not updated the sailmaker portions of the tuning guide as each sailmaker is pretty specific. I have only sailed Hydes, Norths, Ullmans and Doyles on a Viper. I've not sailed the current version of Doyles nor have I gotten a chance to sail the Quantums. Every sailmaker has their own ideas on batten configuration, leech length, luff curve, etc. From what I've seen, North has published the most in-depth tuning guide but I haven't seen Doyles nor Quantums (I have searched them on the web without luck). For example, Ullman's carry a much shorter headstay length because they carry a longer leech.

 

I can honestly say, all of the sailmakers are extremely competitive with one another on the race course. No clear advantage to anyone, though I know they are ALL trying to kick each others asses...a good thing for the class!

 

We adjust our headstay based on conditions we are forecasting, particularly in the bay. We've gone to the extremes on mast rake and find that the Viper likes a shorter headstay in big wind. The Viper has a wierd quirk...it develops pretty significant lee-helm when out of tune. You tend to tune the rig around this quirk. Between the keel and rudder rake angles it needs pretty constant care to keep the boat 'sweet.' I use the pin style lower shroud adjusters that are provided stock. I like the repeatability of them. I sail mostly in 'demo' mode which limits my ability to tune much between races. Turnbuckle lowers are fine but I know the pin numbers for the various conditions (both wind and sea state). I prefer the Johnson lever style adjusters as it's stupid easy to set the pin number, then lever the shroud, but they are not class legal. The pins are a PIA to set for windy days, on the water, as you need the lowers tight. I'm not certain, but I think calibrated turnbuckles are legal but I know they don't have the range for the caps, perhaps for the lowers.

 

In demo mode, I prefer mid-boom sheeting. This allows the noobs the opportunity to get the tiller through the tack without fouling on the aft bridle. Racing...definitely aft bridle in light to medium air...winds over 20, mid-bridle as it allows the leech to open on the big puffs. Downhill you always trim the main off the first fall of the purchase. There's no load on a Viper downhill, even in big air.

 

In short, the tuning guide is a basic 'how-to' reference designed to get folks going after the intitial rep 'show and tell.' I always suggest the owners send the tuning guide to anyone new to their crew so that they have an opportunity to learn some of the boat prior to showing up on race day.

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we adjust the forestay. we don't mess with the lowers much. when i don't mess with the lowers i feel sad but adjusting the forestay makes me feel better

 

monkey says i should not adjust anything, he says it makes us slow. I say - no monkey no, all the beer you bring with us makes us slow. but the beer makes not feel sad, so i adjust the forestay less

 

if mambo is beating us it means more beer or more adjusting

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The tuning guide on the Rondar USA site http://www.rondarboats.com/us/viper-640-resources/ was written around the Hyde sails that were once the standard supplied kit. We have not updated the sailmaker portions of the tuning guide as each sailmaker is pretty specific. I have only sailed Hydes, Norths, Ullmans and Doyles on a Viper. I've not sailed the current version of Doyles nor have I gotten a chance to sail the Quantums. Every sailmaker has their own ideas on batten configuration, leech length, luff curve, etc. From what I've seen, North has published the most in-depth tuning guide but I haven't seen Doyles nor Quantums (I have searched them on the web without luck). For example, Ullman's carry a much shorter headstay length because they carry a longer leech.

 

I can honestly say, all of the sailmakers are extremely competitive with one another on the race course. No clear advantage to anyone, though I know they are ALL trying to kick each others asses...a good thing for the class!

 

We adjust our headstay based on conditions we are forecasting, particularly in the bay. We've gone to the extremes on mast rake and find that the Viper likes a shorter headstay in big wind. The Viper has a wierd quirk...it develops pretty significant lee-helm when out of tune. You tend to tune the rig around this quirk. Between the keel and rudder rake angles it needs pretty constant care to keep the boat 'sweet.' I use the pin style lower shroud adjusters that are provided stock. I like the repeatability of them. I sail mostly in 'demo' mode which limits my ability to tune much between races. Turnbuckle lowers are fine but I know the pin numbers for the various conditions (both wind and sea state). I prefer the Johnson lever style adjusters as it's stupid easy to set the pin number, then lever the shroud, but they are not class legal. The pins are a PIA to set for windy days, on the water, as you need the lowers tight. I'm not certain, but I think calibrated turnbuckles are legal but I know they don't have the range for the caps, perhaps for the lowers.

 

In demo mode, I prefer mid-boom sheeting. This allows the noobs the opportunity to get the tiller through the tack without fouling on the aft bridle. Racing...definitely aft bridle in light to medium air...winds over 20, mid-bridle as it allows the leech to open on the big puffs. Downhill you always trim the main off the first fall of the purchase. There's no load on a Viper downhill, even in big air.

 

In short, the tuning guide is a basic 'how-to' reference designed to get folks going after the intitial rep 'show and tell.' I always suggest the owners send the tuning guide to anyone new to their crew so that they have an opportunity to learn some of the boat prior to showing up on race day.

thanks drew. boat has hydes as you prob already know having talked with the new owner. he's asked that i help him get his stuff dialed in (and i will be doing the driving making the pressure full on to get up to speed) so the boat's notebook has begun. he had some thoughts based on our old ride and having never sailed the boat, thought i'd ask. been through the bennett tuning guide and should have studied class rules before asking questions...sorry. looking forward to the first race at pumpkin

 

btw d, saw the k6/rondar badged vw in the hood sunday night...what brought you down the pen?

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thanks drew. boat has hydes as you prob already know having talked with the new owner. he's asked that i help him get his stuff dialed in (and i will be doing the driving making the pressure full on to get up to speed) so the boat's notebook has begun. he had some thoughts based on our old ride and having never sailed the boat, thought i'd ask. been through the bennett tuning guide and should have studied class rules before asking questions...sorry. looking forward to the first race at pumpkin

 

btw d, saw the k6/rondar badged vw in the hood sunday night...what brought you down the pen?

 

 

I live in Foster City. Trying to talk Weta Dave into bring some boats down to the waterway to sell. Get rid of some the Duffy turd-nuggets floating around.

 

Call me about the Hydes. I really liked them though they have a HUGE luff curve. You need to keep that in mind in light air. You'll be flattening the sails in winds under 6.

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Mrs Monkey says if I don't mess with the uppers, I don't get to mess with the lower! This makes me sad. Sometimes if I can't mess with her lower I drink more beer and I mess with my forestay, this make me happy!

we adjust the forestay. we don't mess with the lowers much. when i don't mess with the lowers i feel sad but adjusting the forestay makes me feel better

monkey says i should not adjust anything, he says it makes us slow. I say - no monkey no, all the beer you bring with us makes us slow. but the beer makes not feel sad, so i adjust the forestay less

if mambo is beating us it means more beer or more adjusting

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Bravo monkey, bravo

 

 

Mrs Monkey says if I don't mess with the uppers, I don't get to mess with the lower! This makes me sad. Sometimes if I can't mess with her lower I drink more beer and I mess with my forestay, this make me happy!

 

we adjust the forestay. we don't mess with the lowers much. when i don't mess with the lowers i feel sad but adjusting the forestay makes me feel better

 

monkey says i should not adjust anything, he says it makes us slow. I say - no monkey no, all the beer you bring with us makes us slow. but the beer makes not feel sad, so i adjust the forestay less

 

if mambo is beating us it means more beer or more adjusting

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I nominate this for "Post of the Year" on anarchy!

 

Do not read this thread holding hot coffee!

 

Team Mambo King , pilgrims seeking truth, wisdom and the origins of the Sea Monkey.

 

 

 

Mrs Monkey says if I don't mess with the uppers, I don't get to mess with the lower! This makes me sad. Sometimes if I can't mess with her lower I drink more beer and I mess with my forestay, this make me happy!

we adjust the forestay. we don't mess with the lowers much. when i don't mess with the lowers i feel sad but adjusting the forestay makes me feel better

monkey says i should not adjust anything, he says it makes us slow. I say - no monkey no, all the beer you bring with us makes us slow. but the beer makes not feel sad, so i adjust the forestay less

if mambo is beating us it means more beer or more adjusting

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"Three person boat, so no need for the extra risk of a foul up by having halyard to pole. Two crew means the pole goes out and the spin goes up instantaneously in the hoist. Less friction in the system and more importantly, in the dowse, if something jams the pole.....you can still dowse the chute."

 

I have crewed on Vipers riggered both ways. Separating the two (pole and halyard) makes a noticible difference in friction and therefore speed in the hoist and douse. Pole comes in and out in 1 sec. In combo rig, have been unable to douse because pole was hung up - bad. In separate rig, have left fouled pole out, doused spin, continued race - good. Seperate rig is superior system whether sailing 2- or 3-up.

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Vipers on the West Coast

 

2010 Long Beach Race Week------------------ One Design Boat of the Week "Most Competitve Class"

 

2013 San Deigo NOOD's--------------------------Tied for largest fleet, won the premier trophy "Boat of the Week" Winner gets to participate in the Sailing World Regatta in the Caribean

 

2013 Long Beach Race Week--------------------Largest Fleet, One Design Boat of the Week "Most Competitve Class"

 

 

Questions?? ;)

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2 boats heading for SoCal landed yesterday. Prepping them for customer pickup.

 

We're demoing like mad and forecasting good numbers for the West in 2014. Alamitos Bay YC (Long Beach) is the host of the 2014 Viper NA's (intergallactics). We had 25 Vipes at LBRW last year. Hoping for 35 in 2014 and 40+ for the NorAms.

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are those whitecap built boats? or rondar build from England?

 

2 boats heading for SoCal landed yesterday. Prepping them for customer pickup.

We're demoing like mad and forecasting good numbers for the West in 2014. Alamitos Bay YC (Long Beach) is the host of the 2014 Viper NA's (intergallactics). We had 25 Vipes at LBRW last year. Hoping for 35 in 2014 and 40+ for the NorAms.

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Whitecap... hoping to get some fresh UK boats out here soon also.. adds flavor to the mix. ;)

 

are those whitecap built boats? or rondar build from England?

 

2 boats heading for SoCal landed yesterday. Prepping them for customer pickup.

We're demoing like mad and forecasting good numbers for the West in 2014. Alamitos Bay YC (Long Beach) is the host of the 2014 Viper NA's (intergallactics). We had 25 Vipes at LBRW last year. Hoping for 35 in 2014 and 40+ for the NorAms.

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Freshies from Peabody sitting on the Double Kit. This kit has now travelled across the USA 4 times. Works perfectly. Converts 2 Rondar trailers to a double in about 45 minutes (2 guys).

 

Will post up pics of new owners. Both are great colors too.

 

post-23955-0-63339800-1380726541_thumb.jpg

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Freshies from Peabody sitting on the Double Kit. This kit has now travelled across the USA 4 times. Works perfectly. Converts 2 Rondar trailers to a double in about 45 minutes (2 guys).

 

Will post up pics of new owners. Both are great colors too.

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

Quit wanking on the internet and get to work rigging my boat!

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Freshies from Peabody sitting on the Double Kit. This kit has now travelled across the USA 4 times. Works perfectly. Converts 2 Rondar trailers to a double in about 45 minutes (2 guys).

Will post up pics of new owners. Both are great colors too.attachicon.gifimage.jpg

Quit wanking on the internet and get to work rigging my boat!

F'ing Walker!

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Freshies from Peabody sitting on the Double Kit. This kit has now travelled across the USA 4 times. Works perfectly. Converts 2 Rondar trailers to a double in about 45 minutes (2 guys).

Will post up pics of new owners. Both are great colors too.attachicon.gifimage.jpg

Quit wanking on the internet and get to work rigging my boat!

Your boat is ready for PU. See you Monday !!!!

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Are those Rondar covers or the Harken covers, or does someone else make them?

 

Cheers on more Vipers!

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Harkens Jason.

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Harkens Jason.

 

Rondar supplies the boat with OEM Harken covers.

 

I don't think that the disposable covers from the Scottish bathroom tissue manufacturer are available anymore. They were great but Rondar has gone "green" and is sensitive to landfill issues that those covers caused.

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Freshies from Peabody sitting on the Double Kit. This kit has now travelled across the USA 4 times. Works perfectly. Converts 2 Rondar trailers to a double in about 45 minutes (2 guys).

Will post up pics of new owners. Both are great colors too.attachicon.gifimage.jpg

Quit wanking on the internet and get to work rigging my boat!

That's really quite funny.

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Here's the 2014 Viper West Coast Schedule. It's VERY SoCal centric as this year Alamitos Bay YC is hosting the Viper North Americans. We're setting up a bunch of regattas for everyone to sail between Long Beach Race Week in June and the NorAms in Sept. We're pushing for 30+ boats at LBRW this year. We had 25 last. Pushing for 40+ at the NorAms.

 

Anyone interested in coupling up for travel...Rondar will have several Double Trailer conversion kits available for purchase or rental located on the East Coast. This kit converts two Rondar trailers to a double. We've now had 4 loads of boats travel West via this kit and I have to say, the thing works well above expectations.

 

post-23955-0-63330000-1383055499_thumb.jpg

 

post-23955-0-42469900-1383055521_thumb.jpg

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I live up in Seattle and I think we have a few of those boats up here, maybe they'll be part of the next NOOD regatta?

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I live up in Seattle and I think we have a few of those boats up here, maybe they'll be part of the next NOOD regatta?

We had a Viper fleet (with a VX One added in) last year at the Seattle NOOD and we'll be there again in 2014 and beyond. I know of at least one more coming to the PNW by the spring.

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Mambo Kings will be sailing on the Pacific Ocean for the first time in 2014........and we are looking forward to it.

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check is in the mail

 

Mambo Kings will be sailing on the Pacific Ocean for the first time in 2014........and we are looking forward to it.

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Along with the mast bracket ? :wub:

 

check is in the mail

 

Mambo Kings will be sailing on the Pacific Ocean for the first time in 2014........and we are looking forward to it.

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Get a bracket from Luke Porter!

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The West Coast Viper Circuit is ramping up... 1st stop on the circuit is this weekend on Lk Pleasant in AZ.. LOT's of So Cal racing to be had this year, and we have huge interest in the 2014 North Americans coming to Long Beach in September.. We have had feelers in from Canada, UK, South America and Australia.. might see 45 boats on the line. It will be off the hook.... ;)

 

 

A few good local boats are on the market and beautiful new Rondar is only about 14wks out..

 

send me a PM and learn how to get involved with this spirited, fun loving class.

 

Timbo

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When do we get a report on az?

 

Popcorn? Love dolls? Incoherent babbling / threats of violence followed by a bit of campfire bondage? Disoriented (intoxicated) sailors rescued from the back of a pickup in sub freezing temperatures?

 

What adventures did this year hold? The viper pit never disappoints.

 

 

The West Coast Viper Circuit is ramping up... 1st stop on the circuit is this weekend on Lk Pleasant in AZ.. LOT's of So Cal racing to be had this year, and we have huge interest in the 2014 North Americans coming to Long Beach in September.. We have had feelers in from Canada, UK, South America and Australia.. might see 45 boats on the line. It will be off the hook.... ;)

 

 

A few good local boats are on the market and beautiful new Rondar is only about 14wks out..

 

send me a PM and learn how to get involved with this spirited, fun loving class.

 

Timbo

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When do we get a report on az?

 

Popcorn? Love dolls? Incoherent babbling / threats of violence followed by a bit of campfire bondage? Disoriented (intoxicated) sailors rescued from the back of a pickup in sub freezing temperatures?

 

What adventures did this year hold? The viper pit never disappoints.

 

 

The West Coast Viper Circuit is ramping up... 1st stop on the circuit is this weekend on Lk Pleasant in AZ.. LOT's of So Cal racing to be had this year, and we have huge interest in the 2014 North Americans coming to Long Beach in September.. We have had feelers in from Canada, UK, South America and Australia.. might see 45 boats on the line. It will be off the hook.... ;)

 

 

A few good local boats are on the market and beautiful new Rondar is only about 14wks out..

 

send me a PM and learn how to get involved with this spirited, fun loving class.

 

Timbo

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I can't remember... head still hurts :)

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Something to do with the Dark and Stormies at the "Mini Bar"? :-)

 

 

post-15916-0-94549800-1390620292_thumb.jpg

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There are quite a few used Vipers available. All the way from Number 24 to one at number 201. Several of the double digit boats are in my budget range. But, of course the inevitable age question comes up. Am I giving much away with an older boat in terms of performance? Looking at the results only one double digit boat made the top ten in the 2013 NA's. But then in LBRW No. 38 was second and 34 was 10th.

 

No sales pitch please. What are the key things to look for that are specific to this class?

 

Thanks.

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There are quite a few used Vipers available. All the way from Number 24 to one at number 201. Several of the double digit boats are in my budget range. But, of course the inevitable age question comes up. Am I giving much away with an older boat in terms of performance? Looking at the results only one double digit boat made the top ten in the 2013 NA's. But then in LBRW No. 38 was second and 34 was 10th.

 

No sales pitch please. What are the key things to look for that are specific to this class?

 

Thanks.

 

I'm personally the owner of an earlier Bennett boat, and can vouch that boat speed is fine when compared to newer boats (skipper speed--that's another story). On the east coast, I think Mambo Kings provides a good example of a Bennett boat #54 being very effective against Rondar Hulls (#70 and up)--they won last year's Cedar Point One Design Regatta against ~30 boats.

 

The early boats themselves are actually constructed from S-glass and epoxy, which is actually ~30% stiffer than the newer boats (E-glass and vinyl ester). Of course, Bennett boats need to have the keel upgrade and the carbon mast--this is basically what you need to have boat speed parity. The other quirk in my opinion is the bow-sprit. Older boats have a smaller diameter prod, with a spectra guy line below it for strength--the newer boats just have a larger diameter pole, no guy line. There aren't any boat handling implications--it could be argued the old style poles actually flex less under power--which could make them faster..not totally sure that's true though. Otherwise, there are a few upgrades that can be performed in the cockpit for crew comfort and general robustness, but these aren't mandatory for boat speed.

 

The market for used Vipers is excellent this year...I wish I had this kind of selection when I was looking a year ago, but that said, I don't regret for a second owning my boat (#39). I bought it locally, have made a ton of upgrades to it, and have had my most fun sailing season to date. The #1 reason this past year was so great is not necessarily the boat itself, but the class, which is second to none. I can't tell you how helpful, open, and friendly the other Viper owners are--there has been a genuine interest in the class in getting me and my boat up to speed--I know it's not like that in other fleets... PM me if you'd like to talk more--I learned a ton in the last year of racing and looking for used boats..

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I am on my second early model Viper 640. I sold my half of #42 to my buddy and then-co-owner, and got #18, which has been really well taken care of. I feel no disadvantage with an older boat. If it weren't for the used Viper market, it would have been really difficult to get into sportboat ownership in my thirties. The boat is awesome, the class is super helpful, and you can't beat the value.

 

Cheers,

 

jason

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The Bennetts are very stiff. One of the thing to watch out for in these 17yr old boats are leaks.. Many Bennetts have had or still have water ingress issues around the keel box, hull lockers or transom flange. All of these areas are much improved on the newer Rondars.

 

The bobstay on the Bennetts can be a fiddly thing though. I have seen deployment / retraction issues because of it. I like not having in on my Rondar.

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Out here in SoCal the 2 digit boats are regularly at the front of the fleet, so it doesn't seem to be an issue.

 

I can second the posts about the fleet being great. I'm a novice, and since receiving #212 3 months ago I've had at least 6 different owners coach, tune, and even do 3 boat tuning/practice sessions on the water in an effort to get me up to speed. Most of them are in the top 5 finishers of most regattas. Can't say that for many other fleets.

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I agree. Being a Viper newbie myself, it's the only fleet where I've seen others helping others on the race course.

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Thanks all for the great responses. What does this mean: "Original style swept rudder"? Did the rudder designs or mount systems change at some point?

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There are a few "Bennett" rudders out there that have a bit of a "Dog Leg" in them.. The rudder tip is forward of a straight line through the gougens if that make sence... They give a bit different feeling in the helm upwind and may loose grip downhill @ a different time than the std rudder.. Some folks feel they generate more lee helm downwind.. There may be 10 that exist..

 

And they need to go away... ;)

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I've had two of them. Still have one.

 

Justin has one. So they will remain class legal.

 

Eh guvynur??

 

 

There are a few "Bennett" rudders out there that have a bit of a "Dog Leg" in them.. The rudder tip is forward of a straight line through the gougens if that make sence... They give a bit different feeling in the helm upwind and may loose grip downhill @ a different time than the std rudder.. Some folks feel they generate more lee helm downwind.. There may be 10 that exist..

 

And they need to go away... ;)

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The dogleg rudders are legal as long as they are on the boat that they were delivered with...I think. I'd have to re-read that one. I have a Solent Rudder which I absolutely LOVE for sailing the Bay. Same concept as the current one but much longer so it holds in there in bigger breeze/waves. NOT class legal though. Makes the boat very fun in 25+

 

Vee, I would have no hesitation buying a double digit Viper. Here's the legacy, as far as I know. The Maddy's 5 know this way better than I though. Here's a great post by a West Coast guy that bought an old Bennett and is upgrading it. Nice job and if you like to mess with boats, very rewarding. http://forum.viper640.org/index.php?topic=1660.15

 

10-60ish Original Bennet Boats. Lots of variations, modifications within those numbers. Bennett changed the tool a few times to fix early issues.

60ish to 66ish - Race one Boats built in the UK after Bennett bellied up.

70-102 - Rondar boats made on the orginal Bennett tooling. We call those Mark II

103 - 185 ish Rondar Boats made on modified Bennett Tool. The Hull Mold was remade and the transom flange changed. Minor upgrades in a few area, primarily the ringframe added to the shroud location. We call these Mark III

186 and up. Plug made and two tools pulled from the plug. One in the UK, one in Peabody, MA. Quite a few small upgrades. Bigger integral cockpit lockers that form part of the structure adding considerable stiffness through the flexy part of the boat (where shroud tangs are). Bezels on lockers so they quit leaking. Rounder edges, non-skid changes, new class keelmold, different top and bottom plates, etc. We call these Mark IV

 

Any Viper you buy can win a regatta as best exhibited by the results. A faster boat will still lose if you go the wrong way, make technical errors, etc.

 

Look at the Viper640.org page under racing and you'll see LOTS of results....by hull number. That should speak for itself somewhat.

 

Currently there are some SCREAMING used boat deals on the Viper Forum. #149 is a well cared for Mark III that has won two LBRW, a SD Noods, High Sierra, etc. I thinks he's asking $23? Will need sails which adds $5000+.

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I'm not sure that is completely accurate. This is based on what I understand to be true - it is not gospel.

 

10 - 58 were built by Bennett.

 

Any 60 boats were built by race one -same bomb-proof epoxy construction but I don't think brian laid his hands on them. I'm a bit fuzzy on this, I think there were only two?

 

Rondar started with 70 and those were MK1 boats (Not MK2). MK refers to the rondar lineage. MK1, MK2, MK3, MK4, (I lost count). Bennetts have always just been bennetts. Race One vipers were referred to as Bennetts because of the construction, but they were really "race one vipers"

 

@ 102 the tooling was modified and the MK 3 was born. (NOT 103). I purchased 102, Felipe took delivery of 103. boats were exactly the same, built at the same time. New larger rudder tower and dove-tail aft joint and full on keel box mod were the only major changes to he tooling from MK2 to MK3

 

The rest you know better than I because I switched from a rondar hull to a Bennett hull after 129

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11 Vipers entered for Midwinters this weekend @ Cal YC... 2nd largest fleet and our 1st time there for Midwinters.

 

Not bad when you consider we have no Vipers based out of Cal YC..... Yet! ;)

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Have a ball Timbo and post some pics.

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Looking forward to next weekend and the Sandy Eggo NOODs on the South Bay..

 

Right now the Vipers are tied with the largest fleet @ 16 boats.. and we may have some more come out of the woodwork...

 

 

Snapper?? Snapper??

 

 

We WILL WIN THE PARTY EITHER WAY.... :P

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question: do y'all do post race fleet debriefs?

 

 

looking forward to our first outing...

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Any truth to the claim of a 640 averaging 26 knots over 10 miles?

 

Now that sounds like fun... Haven't heard this one, but I can tell you first hand at Charleston last year, Jackpot had a 10s average of 27 kts saved on their Velocitek (with peak speeds ~30 kts)..

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Any truth to the claim of a 640 averaging 26 knots over 10 miles?

 

Now that sounds like fun... Haven't heard this one, but I can tell you first hand at Charleston last year, Jackpot had a 10s average of 27 kts saved on their Velocitek (with peak speeds ~30 kts)..

That's smokin...I want one..

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You can make it so.... lots of great boats on the market right now...

 

 

Any truth to the claim of a 640 averaging 26 knots over 10 miles?

 

Now that sounds like fun... Haven't heard this one, but I can tell you first hand at Charleston last year, Jackpot had a 10s average of 27 kts saved on their Velocitek (with peak speeds ~30 kts)..

That's smokin...I want one..

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Got my entry in for the North American's, can't wait, numbers looking pretty good for so far out.

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Got my entry in for the North American's, can't wait, numbers looking pretty good for so far out.

 

21 entries to date...first 25 in a draw for a new jib!

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question: do y'all do post race fleet debriefs?

 

 

looking forward to our first outing...

YES...all the majors have the top teams doing debrief dockside over beers or back at the club over Dark 'n Stormies :-))

 

Not sure who's doing LBRW debrief. NA's will likely be debriefed by some of the best sailors in the world!

 

One of the best things about the Viper fleet is sailing next to a top team and they might tell you to try this or that as your tuning seems a bit off...voila...another half a knot! Pretty cool.

 

The front of the fleet works hard to get the back of the fleet moving upward.

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All this talk about the Viper Class.. What I think is REALLY SIGNIFICNT is the trend to small sporties in sailing..

 

Look @ the scratch sheet for this weekends NOODs in San Diego

 

http://www.yachtscoring.com/event_scratch_sheet.cfm?eID=937

 

There are more small sporties on the South Bay Course that the othe 3 combined.. They HAVE drank the Kool-Aid and understand what fun in sailing can be all about.

 

Whatever you flavor, get closer to the water and have a blast.

 

Look me up @ the CYC bar and I will buy you a beer. B)

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Good to see the growth is still strong on the west coast. Good turnouts in the races here in Florida but the growth isn't like it is out there.

 

Things are looking better for Alicia and I this year Timbo........you and I may be having a conversation this fall........finally........a year later ....... :P

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No worries J, glad to hear that you and Alicia are good. I hope you can jump in by NA's @ ABYC.. 40 boats, not to be missed. Give me a call a possibly we can work out a Bro Deal.. ;)

Good to see the growth is still strong on the west coast. Good turnouts in the races here in Florida but the growth isn't like it is out there.

Things are looking better for Alicia and I this year Timbo........you and I may be having a conversation this fall........finally........a year later ....... :P

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question: do y'all do post race fleet debriefs?

 

 

looking forward to our first outing...

YES...all the majors have the top teams doing debrief dockside over beers or back at the club over Dark 'n Stormies :-))

 

Not sure who's doing LBRW debrief. NA's will likely be debriefed by some of the best sailors in the world!

 

One of the best things about the Viper fleet is sailing next to a top team and they might tell you to try this or that as your tuning seems a bit off...voila...another half a knot! Pretty cool.

 

The front of the fleet works hard to get the back of the fleet moving upward.

If anyone is interested is seeing how the Viper Fleet embraces and promotes our young, stop by the CYC dock on Friday after racing and catch the Post Race De-Breif being given by LB hotshot Jay Golison and Dago's own Chris Snow. Should be great!

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Where are the NAs this year Timbo (or Drew)? And when?

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