Sign in to follow this  
Milo Christensen

Crossing the "red line" in Syria - or not

Recommended Posts

go get em squirrel. given the record of all foreign interventions in that part of the world - it's likely that this bloodletting is the least damaging alternative. How many innocent Iraqi's died liberating them from that other Bath'ist?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You forgot the stage directions for the dialogue. In a high falsetto, handwringing, sobbing and moaning before and after - What should we do?

 

You can't answer a simple question. What's the matter with you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

tuk-tuk posts a picture of two getting killed - extrajudicialliy is the newspeak term - but for a thousand days every day a 100 have died from bombs, bullets, gangrenous wounds, 3rd degree burns over 90% of the body, being buried alive in collapsing buildings, and on and on and on in all the slow, beautiful, painful ways to die in a war perpetrated by the state against it's own people. Why doesn't tuk-tuk post more pictures?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You forgot the stage directions for the dialogue. In a high falsetto, handwringing, sobbing and moaning before and after - What should we do?

 

You can't answer a simple question. What's the matter with you?

 

This from the guy that posts gay porn as a rebuttal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

exeuction.png

 

That, and the beheading videos make me sincerely question the wisdom of trying to help people who think that's OK to exercise authority over anything more important than a dung heap.

It's a moot point; we cannot afford another adventure at the present time, even if policing the world was the proper role for the US, which it is not. Stay out of it, and in the process, avoid being blamed for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest One of Five

Oh yea - our "compassion" has gotten us into waaay too much trouble over the years. The only thing those pix and video say to me is stay the fuck out.

 

 

 

 

exeuction.png

 

That, and the beheading videos make me sincerely question the wisdom of trying to help people who think that's OK to exercise authority over anything more important than a dung heap.

It's a moot point; we cannot afford another adventure at the present time, even if policing the world was the proper role for the US, which it is not. Stay out of it, and in the process, avoid being blamed for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Israel helping the same terrorists that want to wipe them off the map? Now I've seen it all.... :ph34r:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Red line crossed again.... :ph34r:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless we pulled every airplane from Afghanistan, S Korea, and other areas where they are actually doing daily REAL missions - there ain't no one left to do a NFZ.

 

Those are REAL missions? Funny, I thought we wasted 12 years mostly getting nothing done except spending trillions and installing the most corrupt drug dealing regime in the history of the world....

 

Are you now claiming that we need to spend those trillions all over the world to protect something or someone?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rebels re-defecting. Taking up Assad's amnesty offer.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10198632/Syria-disillusioned-rebels-drift-back-to-take-Assad-amnesty.html

 

Sounds like the offices that are handling it are busy.

 

Looks like Putin will be smiling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Rebels re-defecting. Taking up Assad's amnesty offer.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10198632/Syria-disillusioned-rebels-drift-back-to-take-Assad-amnesty.html

 

Sounds like the offices that are handling it are busy.

 

Looks like Putin will be smiling.

Good for Putin and peace. Bad for MIC, McCain and the rest of the war criminals..... :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Rebels re-defecting. Taking up Assad's amnesty offer.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10198632/Syria-disillusioned-rebels-drift-back-to-take-Assad-amnesty.html

 

Sounds like the offices that are handling it are busy.

 

Looks like Putin will be smiling.

Good for Putin and peace. Bad for MIC, McCain and the rest of the war criminals..... :ph34r:

 

Snowden will finally be a citizen of a peaceful nation...

:wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pot calls kettle black...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice try hypocrite...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this one a red line?

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/07/us-syria-crisis-chemicalweapons-idUSKBN0FC1U420140707

Two cylinders reportedly seized by Syrian government troops in an area controlled by armed opposition groups contained deadly sarin, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said in a letter to the U.N. Security Council published on Monday.

 

Ban said that on June 14, the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) United Nations Joint Mission overseeing the destruction of Syria's chemical stockpile analyzed the contents of the cylinders.

 

"The Joint Mission confirmed that these contained sarin," said Ban's letter. The letter said the cylinders were "reportedly seized by the armed forces of the Syrian Arab Republic in August 2013 in an area reportedly under the control of armed opposition groups."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Is this one a red line?

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/07/us-syria-crisis-chemicalweapons-idUSKBN0FC1U420140707

Two cylinders reportedly seized by Syrian government troops in an area controlled by armed opposition groups contained deadly sarin, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said in a letter to the U.N. Security Council published on Monday.

 

Ban said that on June 14, the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) United Nations Joint Mission overseeing the destruction of Syria's chemical stockpile analyzed the contents of the cylinders.

 

"The Joint Mission confirmed that these contained sarin," said Ban's letter. The letter said the cylinders were "reportedly seized by the armed forces of the Syrian Arab Republic in August 2013 in an area reportedly under the control of armed opposition groups."

 

To the contrary, Obummer wants to give them another 500m...coffee1.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.rt.com/news/325825-sarin-gas-syria-turkey/

Islamic State terrorists in Syria received all necessary materials to produce deadly sarin gas via Turkey, Turkish MP Eren Erdem has told RT, insisting there are grounds to believe a cover up has taken place.

 

The main opposition Republican People's Party (CHP) member, Erdem, brought up the issue for public discussion in parliament last week, citing evidence from an abruptly-closed criminal case. He accused Ankara of failing to investigate Turkish supply routes used to provide terrorists with toxic sarin gas ingredients.

 

“There is data in this indictment. Chemical weapon materials are being brought to Turkey and being put together in Syria in camps of ISIS which was known as Iraqi Al Qaeda during that time," Erdem told RT.

 

Sarin gas is a military-grade chemical that was used in a notorious attack on Ghouta and several other neighborhoods near the Syrian capital of Damascus in 2013. The attacks were pinned on the Syrian leadership, who in turn agreed to get rid of all chemical weapons stockpiles under a UN-brokered deal amid an imminent threat of US intervention.

 

Addressing parliamentarians on Thursday, Erdem showed a copy of the criminal case number 2013/120 that was opened by the General Prosecutor's Office in the city of Adana in southern Turkey.

 

The investigation revealed that a number of Turkish citizens took part in negotiations with Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) representatives on the supply of sarin gas. Pointing to evidence cited in the criminal case, he said that wiretapped phone conversations proved that an Al-Qaeda militant, Hayyam Kasap, acquired sarin.

 

“These are all detected. There are phone recordings of this shipment like ‘don't worry about the border, we’ll take care of it' and we also see the bureaucracy is being used,” continued Erdem.

 

Based on the gathered evidence Adana authorities conducted raids and arrested 13 suspects in the case. But a week later, inexplicably, the case was closed and all the suspects immediately crossed the Turkish-Syrian border, Erdem said.

 

“About the shipment, Republic prosecutor of Adana, Mehmet Arıkan, made an operation and the related people were detained. But as far as I understand he was not an influential person in bureaucracy. A week after, another public prosecutor was assigned, took over the indictment and all the detainees were released. And they left Turkey crossing the Syrian border,” he said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plausible but not certain.

 

The information here is the Russians are pissed off at the Turks and letting them know it. Only fair if their intent is to avenge the next Turkish "accident" with Turkish blood. The situation is ripe for escalation and therefor mixed messages are dangerous. Everything the Russians say about the Turks until tensions ease is highly likely to be nasty as all get out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of what the Russians do is framed internally as an East West thing, reclaiming Russian greatness. This is my supposition but work with me on this. East West, Russia v USA is certainly easy for us and most likely easy for the Russians to see. But Russia v Turkey is different from Russia v NATO as that conflict stretches back before the USofA was even a Confederation of States.

 

So, leaving NATO and US completely out of this, what is going on with Russia and Turkey? Crimea and the Black Sea is armed to the hilt with anti-ship missile swarms. If you recall from the Cold War, we had Jupiter ballistic missiles in Turkey. The popular imagination has the Cold War being a stare down across the Berlin Wall. But this area is at least as volatile.

 

Are we looking at a looming Battle of Balaclava? Do the Russians really have a clue what they're doing? I don't think they do. They keep amping up tensions. Tupolev Tu-95s trolling off freaking Ireland. Dicking with Sweden.

 

I'm anything but a Putin fan but what is this asshole doing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Putin is working on halting the geographic spread of the US/Israel/saudi backed war, then will attack with financial war, the only thing the US understands.

 

BRICS will float a gold based economy. They have been buying madly. Then Dollar fucked. US fucked. Clocks ticking.

who_gives_a_shit_wall_clock.jpg?height=2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are we looking at a looming Battle of Balaclava? Do the Russians really have a clue what they're doing? I don't think they do. They keep amping up tensions. Tupolev Tu-95s trolling off freaking Ireland. Dicking with Sweden.

Ah, so Freedom of Navigation exercises are now "amping up tensions" and "dicking" with countries?

We'll need to keep that in mind.

I'm anything but a Putin fan but what is this asshole doing?

It is possible that not everything you have heard about Russia over the last few decades has been strictly accurate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of what the Russians do is framed internally as an East West thing, reclaiming Russian greatness. This is my supposition but work with me on this. East West, Russia v USA is certainly easy for us and most likely easy for the Russians to see. But Russia v Turkey is different from Russia v NATO as that conflict stretches back before the USofA was even a Confederation of States.

 

So, leaving NATO and US completely out of this, what is going on with Russia and Turkey? Crimea and the Black Sea is armed to the hilt with anti-ship missile swarms. If you recall from the Cold War, we had Jupiter ballistic missiles in Turkey. The popular imagination has the Cold War being a stare down across the Berlin Wall. But this area is at least as volatile.

 

Are we looking at a looming Battle of Balaclava? Do the Russians really have a clue what they're doing? I don't think they do. They keep amping up tensions. Tupolev Tu-95s trolling off freaking Ireland. Dicking with Sweden.

 

I'm anything but a Putin fan but what is this asshole doing?

 

Russia, for good reason actually, has never trusted the 'west' when in comes to their motives but equally, Russia has never viewed themselves as 'Asian'. So they're torn. They actually WANT to be European but they want "respect", whatever that means. I've you've ever read Russian literature, they tend to be pragmatic, somewhat pessimistic, but ultimately fatalistic. A left over from their Orthodox Religious origins, hardened by frozen centuries of cold rolling. Turkey may own the old capital of eastern Roman Empire but Russia has always felt it owns the soul.

 

Russia WILL NOT allow NATO up against their borders. They will go to war for that. They will not loose control that way. Ukraine was desperately trying to join Europe in before 2017 but Putin simply took back Crimea last year instead. They played a weak hand - mostly because Europe led them on - and Putin punked em down. If the west of Ukraine wants to join Europe, that's "fine" but the East WILL become the buffer zone which is what's happening now.

 

Turkey controls the access to the Black Sea but Russia controls the Black Sea. That's the dynamic that occasionally gets tested. The fighting in Syria and Iraq are, in my mind, not actually part of the greater Turkish/Russian narrative YET. That again is about oil resources and transportation contracts (written about ad nauseaum elsewhere).

 

Things like the bombers are just a reminder. Are they 'provocative'? Personally I suspect they've been going on a long time and it's the media pushing a narrative to get clicks. Dog Whistles for those inclined to hear. The Chinese have been scheduling missile launch 'tests' for Christmas Eve every year for like a decade. You think they can't read a calendar? They're dicking around. And we do stuff like flying satellites over their bases. Countries do crap like that to each other. What good is having the biggest schlong if you can't smack someone with it occasionally? And yea, it's that simple. Childish - but simple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank C.

 

Love Russian lit. FWIW, I'd recommend The Possessed by Elif Batuman. I read The Idiot in HS and had a thoroughly HS understanding of it. But I did remember it. Batuman's reading of The Idiot was awesome. Fun writer; Stanford. I read Bulgakov's Master and Margerita and I was so proud of myself until I had a Russian girlfriend who patiently explained I really didn't get it at all; I thought fantasy; Russians saw it as heavily allegorical, their Animal Farm but they knew their backstory. The usual heavyweights. Prefer Tolstoy and Chekov.

 

The fighting in Syria and Iraq are, in my mind, not actually part of the greater Turkish/Russian narrative YET. I think yet just became now, nyet? This is the first Russian shoot down but they've been having sparks along that border for the whole of the Syrian Civil War. Putin has staked a lot on Syria. He gave up Libya way too easily.

 

You might be right about the 'provocation' getting too much press.

 

Still not impressed by Putin. He's no Merkle. He's no Obama. He's no whoever the fuck runs China. I rank him with Netanyahu, notable for his longevity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank C.

 

 

Still not impressed by Putin. He's no Merkle. He's no Obama. He's no whoever the fuck runs China. I rank him with Netanyahu, notable for his longevity.

 

Actually, that's probably a good analog with a healthy dose of Dick Cheney thrown in. Putin is ruthlessly pragmatic. Not quite 'Stalin' level but there's a sizable collection of body bags in his closet. The drop in oil prices will put a lot of pressure on him but I don't think it's 'critical' pressure yet. There would have to be a catalyst and more important, another horse in the race. I haven't followed Russian politics very closely but I don't know of any other horses who are even realistically in the starting gate today.

 

FWIW, one of the truly TRULY stupid things I heard came out of Saudi Arabia this weekend. Apparently one of their ministers essentially said they could "outlast" the Russians if it came down to it. To which, I remember Winston Churchill - "NEVER underestimate the Russian ability to suffer."

 

The Saudis are TOTALLY disillusion if they think they can 'outlast' the Russians in a battle of deprivations. DI-LOOS-SHUN-AL. If I'm a member of OPEC who actually needs oil revenue, I'm scared shitless and looking to cut a deal with SOMEONE. Shale Gas drillers, Exxon, SOMEONE to get the pumping slowed down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NEVER underestimate the Russian ability to suffer. Yep. Putin, ruthlessly pragmatic, yep. Strategically successful? Uh, no. Not really. You want strategically successful, that'd be the Chinese.

 

What does Putin have to show for all this? Sochi was incredibly vain. The Ukraine crisis pissed off the Euros. He's in a race to the bottom with the Saudis. His reserves are drying up. Squat. Team Red loves him which is amusing.

 

I'm also not a fan of the Sauds. Lexus driving goat herders. I am a fan of the Iranians, an ancient proud empire (but dump the mullahs). Kind of like the Turks. Fuck the Sauds and the Izzies.

 

Speaking of Sochi, the BRICS are spending like drunk sailors on the Olympics and World Cup.

 

Feels like we're in some sort of bubble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like Putin wants to talk now. This has usually gotten kicked over to Lavrov.

Did you even read your own article? Kerry has chatted with them 22 times this year. Putin and Obama have met 3 times since September.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Looks like Putin wants to talk now. This has usually gotten kicked over to Lavrov.

Did you even read your own article? Kerry has chatted with them 22 times this year. Putin and Obama have met 3 times since September.

 

This is Mr. Kerry's 20th meeting with his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, so far this year, and his second face-to-face with President Vladimir Putin.

 

Putin has been known to make Kerry wait for hours for a cursory meeting.

You may not see this as evidence that Russians want to talk. I do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

A lot of what the Russians do is framed internally as an East West thing, reclaiming Russian greatness. This is my supposition but work with me on this. East West, Russia v USA is certainly easy for us and most likely easy for the Russians to see. But Russia v Turkey is different from Russia v NATO as that conflict stretches back before the USofA was even a Confederation of States.

 

So, leaving NATO and US completely out of this, what is going on with Russia and Turkey? Crimea and the Black Sea is armed to the hilt with anti-ship missile swarms. If you recall from the Cold War, we had Jupiter ballistic missiles in Turkey. The popular imagination has the Cold War being a stare down across the Berlin Wall. But this area is at least as volatile.

 

Are we looking at a looming Battle of Balaclava? Do the Russians really have a clue what they're doing? I don't think they do. They keep amping up tensions. Tupolev Tu-95s trolling off freaking Ireland. Dicking with Sweden.

 

I'm anything but a Putin fan but what is this asshole doing?

Russia, for good reason actually, has never trusted the 'west' when in comes to their motives but equally, Russia has never viewed themselves as 'Asian'. So they're torn. They actually WANT to be European but they want "respect", whatever that means. I've you've ever read Russian literature, they tend to be pragmatic, somewhat pessimistic, but ultimately fatalistic. A left over from their Orthodox Religious origins, hardened by frozen centuries of cold rolling. Turkey may own the old capital of eastern Roman Empire but Russia has always felt it owns the soul.

 

Russia WILL NOT allow NATO up against their borders. They will go to war for that. They will not loose control that way. Ukraine was desperately trying to join Europe in before 2017 but Putin simply took back Crimea last year instead. They played a weak hand - mostly because Europe led them on - and Putin punked em down. If the west of Ukraine wants to join Europe, that's "fine" but the East WILL become the buffer zone which is what's happening now.

 

Turkey controls the access to the Black Sea but Russia controls the Black Sea. That's the dynamic that occasionally gets tested. The fighting in Syria and Iraq are, in my mind, not actually part of the greater Turkish/Russian narrative YET. That again is about oil resources and transportation contracts (written about ad nauseaum elsewhere).

 

Things like the bombers are just a reminder. Are they 'provocative'? Personally I suspect they've been going on a long time and it's the media pushing a narrative to get clicks. Dog Whistles for those inclined to hear. The Chinese have been scheduling missile launch 'tests' for Christmas Eve every year for like a decade. You think they can't read a calendar? They're dicking around. And we do stuff like flying satellites over their bases. Countries do crap like that to each other. What good is having the biggest schlong if you can't smack someone with it occasionally? And yea, it's that simple. Childish - but simple.

 

Look into the difference between a Red Russian and a White Russian.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Looks like Putin wants to talk now. This has usually gotten kicked over to Lavrov.

Did you even read your own article? Kerry has chatted with them 22 times this year. Putin and Obama have met 3 times since September.
This is Mr. Kerry's 20th meeting with his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, so far this year, and his second face-to-face with President Vladimir Putin. Putin has been known to make Kerry wait for hours for a cursory meeting.You may not see this as evidence that Russians want to talk. I do.

No shit. 25 meetings this year as pointed out by BC. Now if we can only get the Americans to stop supporting the latest batch of freedom fighting terrorists..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Looks like Putin wants to talk now. This has usually gotten kicked over to Lavrov.

Did you even read your own article? Kerry has chatted with them 22 times this year. Putin and Obama have met 3 times since September.

 

This is Mr. Kerry's 20th meeting with his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, so far this year, and his second face-to-face with President Vladimir Putin.

 

Putin has been known to make Kerry wait for hours for a cursory meeting.

You may not see this as evidence that Russians want to talk. I do.

 

Ic. But then why does Mr Kerry appear to be backing down on long-held ideologies?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_RUSSIA_US?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-12-15-16-01-54

Dec 15, 6:01 PM EST

ASSAD CAN STAY, FOR NOW: KERRY ACCEPTS RUSSIAN STANCE

BY MATTHEW LEE AND BRADLEY KLAPPER

ASSOCIATED PRESS

 

MOSCOW (AP) -- U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry on Tuesday accepted Russia's long-standing demand that President Bashar Assad's future be determined by his own people, as Washington and Moscow edged toward putting aside years of disagreement over how to end Syria's civil war.

 

"The United States and our partners are not seeking so-called regime change," Kerry told reporters in the Russian capital after meeting President Vladimir Putin. A major international conference on Syria would take place later this week in New York, Kerry announced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

A lot of what the Russians do is framed internally as an East West thing, reclaiming Russian greatness. This is my supposition but work with me on this. East West, Russia v USA is certainly easy for us and most likely easy for the Russians to see. But Russia v Turkey is different from Russia v NATO as that conflict stretches back before the USofA was even a Confederation of States.

 

So, leaving NATO and US completely out of this, what is going on with Russia and Turkey? Crimea and the Black Sea is armed to the hilt with anti-ship missile swarms. If you recall from the Cold War, we had Jupiter ballistic missiles in Turkey. The popular imagination has the Cold War being a stare down across the Berlin Wall. But this area is at least as volatile.

 

Are we looking at a looming Battle of Balaclava? Do the Russians really have a clue what they're doing? I don't think they do. They keep amping up tensions. Tupolev Tu-95s trolling off freaking Ireland. Dicking with Sweden.

 

I'm anything but a Putin fan but what is this asshole doing?

 

 

 

Russia WILL NOT allow NATO up against their borders. They will go to war for that. They will not loose control that way.

 

I would hate to be the guy that has to break it to Putin that Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, all on the Russian border-- are full on NATO members.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ic. But then why does Mr Kerry appear to be backing down on long-held ideologies?

That's cool too. I would recommend watching the Godfather clip.

 

How did things ever go so far?

I don't know.

It was so unfortunate, so unnecessary.

I would hate to be the guy that has to break it to Putin that Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, all on the Russian border-- are full on NATO members.

Poland also borders the Russkis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Ic. But then why does Mr Kerry appear to be backing down on long-held ideologies?

That's cool too. I would recommend watching the Godfather clip.

 

How did things ever go so far?

I don't know.

It was so unfortunate, so unnecessary.

 

No shit. Millions of Syrians agree with you.

Hopefully more small steps like this will follow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

A lot of what the Russians do is framed internally as an East West thing, reclaiming Russian greatness. This is my supposition but work with me on this. East West, Russia v USA is certainly easy for us and most likely easy for the Russians to see. But Russia v Turkey is different from Russia v NATO as that conflict stretches back before the USofA was even a Confederation of States.

 

So, leaving NATO and US completely out of this, what is going on with Russia and Turkey? Crimea and the Black Sea is armed to the hilt with anti-ship missile swarms. If you recall from the Cold War, we had Jupiter ballistic missiles in Turkey. The popular imagination has the Cold War being a stare down across the Berlin Wall. But this area is at least as volatile.

 

Are we looking at a looming Battle of Balaclava? Do the Russians really have a clue what they're doing? I don't think they do. They keep amping up tensions. Tupolev Tu-95s trolling off freaking Ireland. Dicking with Sweden.

 

I'm anything but a Putin fan but what is this asshole doing?

 

 

 

Russia WILL NOT allow NATO up against their borders. They will go to war for that. They will not loose control that way.

 

I would hate to be the guy that has to break it to Putin that Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, all on the Russian border-- are full on NATO members.

 

 

Yes, you're right. I was incorrectly coarse in my language and geography.

 

Just as reference.. http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=Estonia

 

They are DMZed along with the other two. Yes, all three countries are 'NATO' but they work very hard to be absolutely no threat nor do they allow their territory to be used as a basis for a threat.

 

I did some reading on the White/Red Russian and how it relates to modern Turkish/Russian interactions but I'm not getting a lot of linkage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's the way I think might be best to get past the "great man" mode of thinking which infects this discussion and most popular history these days by going through it. Everybody is mired in it and thinks this is just "Putin".

 

Ok...So...is he a Red or a White Russian?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Putin is working on halting the geographic spread of the US/Israel/saudi backed war, then will attack with financial war, the only thing the US understands.

 

BRICS will float a gold based economy. They have been buying madly. Then Dollar fucked. US fucked. Clocks ticking.

The Russians will take any opportunity to tweak the US of course. But I'd expect the price of gold to be moving if what you say is true. The opposite way it's actually moving

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plausible but not certain.

 

The information here is the Russians are pissed off at the Turks and letting them know it. Only fair if their intent is to avenge the next Turkish "accident" with Turkish blood. The situation is ripe for escalation and therefor mixed messages are dangerous. Everything the Russians say about the Turks until tensions ease is highly likely to be nasty as all get out.

Hmmm.

https://www.rt.com/news/326084-erdem-rt-interview-treason/

A treason investigation has been launched against a Turkish MP who alleged in an exclusive interview with RT that Islamic State jihadists delivered deadly sarin gas to Syria through Turkey.

Ankara’s Chief Prosecutor's Office opened the case against Istanbul MP Eren Erdem of Republican People's Party (CHP) after his interview about sarin was aired on RT on Monday.

 

As Turkish media reported Wednesday, the prosecutor’s office is planning to send a summary of proceedings to the Ministry of Justice on Thursday. Following that, the summary may be forwarded to the Turkish parliament, which could vote to strip Erdem of his parliamentary immunity.

RT seems to be the only source currently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a good point, our courtier media's are no longer interested in journalism, the shit just don't pay. Therefore Syria has dropped off the two radars because neither currently sees a way to use it to affect the reality TV show "Survivor", sometimes referred to as the "Race For The White House" or improve its ratings.

 

Btw, the Geneva talks have already broken down. This will be settled the old-fashioned way. At some point the soldiers will decide that some form of talking will again be useful, or at least one sides will.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the vast majority of accounts the Syrian government is making big strides in the north. Yeah, the Russians are providing air support but I suspect the intervention's effect on moral is the bigger factor. The timing of the Russian's move seems to have been just right. The loyalists deem this their last, best (and good!), shot at survival and are thus giving it the all plus 10% such endeavors typically garner. The years of desperate war have distilled them down. True soldiers, they will fight, and they will draw defectors from the ranks of their enemy. Many of whom simply want to be on the winning side.

 

The efforts of the Russian/Syrian/Hezzi/Iraqi coalition seem coordinated with our Kurdish one. They are both pushing to shut the lid of the "Cauldron" as Russians like to call them.

 

naleppo-s.jpg

 

 

Russia and the US: "Enemies in peace, allies in war."

 

 

How can situations like this escape the eye of our media? They are no longer interested in journalism, that's why.

 

Anywho, if I were Daesh I'd consider getting my ass back into Iraq and becoming AQIM again. Hard to imagine them reversing this, but they might. Ya just never know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the vast majority of accounts the Syrian government is making big strides in the north. Yeah, the Russians are providing air support but I suspect the intervention's effect on moral is the bigger factor. The timing of the Russian's move seems to have been just right. The loyalists deem this their last, best (and good!), shot at survival and are thus giving it the all plus 10% such endeavors typically garner. The years of desperate war have distilled them down. True soldiers, they will fight, and they will draw defectors from the ranks of their enemy. Many of whom simply want to be on the winning side.

Morale is an important thing to have on your side.

The gossip sites suggest that the israelis are freaking out about all this top-level training that Hezbollah is getting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There has never been a better example of the total control the US administration had over the media.

 

In your mind Obama must like being called a Kenyan Muslim...or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The efforts of the Russian/Syrian/Hezzi/Iraqi coalition seem coordinated with our Kurdish one. They are both pushing to shut the lid of the "Cauldron" as Russians like to call them.

 

 

How can situations like this escape the eye of our media? They are no longer interested in journalism, that's why.

 

Anywho, if I were Daesh I'd consider getting my ass back into Iraq and becoming AQIM again. Hard to imagine them reversing this, but they might. Ya just never know.

 

 

 

 

The Kurds have a common enemy with the Islamic state apart from that the Russians are their best friend in that group, Assad and Iran persecute the Kurds while the Iraqis have given them some autonomy.

 

Journalists are the biggest bunch of drunks I have ever come across, they like a drink which might explain why many of them are short on facts.

 

Don't know how this will end some prick stole my crystal balls, I hope the Kurds can get their own country.

 

Why does the USA list the PKK as terrorists is it because your mates the Turkeys don't like that filthy kuffar atheist Abdullah Ocalan or is it because the Kurds flirted with communism and state atheism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Mahabad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

The efforts of the Russian/Syrian/Hezzi/Iraqi coalition seem coordinated with our Kurdish one. They are both pushing to shut the lid of the "Cauldron" as Russians like to call them.

 

 

How can situations like this escape the eye of our media? They are no longer interested in journalism, that's why.

 

Anywho, if I were Daesh I'd consider getting my ass back into Iraq and becoming AQIM again. Hard to imagine them reversing this, but they might. Ya just never know.

 

 

 

 

The Kurds have a common enemy with the Islamic state apart from that the Russians are their best friend in that group, Assad and Iran persecute the Kurds while the Iraqis have given them some autonomy.

 

Journalists are the biggest bunch of drunks I have ever come across, they like a drink which might explain why many of them are short on facts.

 

Don't know how this will end some prick stole my crystal balls, I hope the Kurds can get their own country.

 

Why does the USA list the PKK as terrorists is it because your mates the Turkeys don't like that filthy kuffar atheist Abdullah Ocalan or is it because the Kurds flirted with communism and state atheism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Mahabad

 

 

They are terrorists. And you are aware, at some level, you've never had any balls, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

 

 

 

The efforts of the Russian/Syrian/Hezzi/Iraqi coalition seem coordinated with our Kurdish one. They are both pushing to shut the lid of the "Cauldron" as Russians like to call them.

 

 

How can situations like this escape the eye of our media? They are no longer interested in journalism, that's why.

 

Anywho, if I were Daesh I'd consider getting my ass back into Iraq and becoming AQIM again. Hard to imagine them reversing this, but they might. Ya just never know.

 

 

 

 

The Kurds have a common enemy with the Islamic state apart from that the Russians are their best friend in that group, Assad and Iran persecute the Kurds while the Iraqis have given them some autonomy.

 

Journalists are the biggest bunch of drunks I have ever come across, they like a drink which might explain why many of them are short on facts.

 

Don't know how this will end some prick stole my crystal balls, I hope the Kurds can get their own country.

 

Why does the USA list the PKK as terrorists is it because your mates the Turkeys don't like that filthy kuffar atheist Abdullah Ocalan or is it because the Kurds flirted with communism and state atheism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Mahabad

 

 

They are terrorists. And you are aware, at some level, you've never had any balls, right?

 

 

Gold! Pure freakin GOLD! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time to get our folks and the Kurds out so Russia and Syria can lock horns with ISIL?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time to get our folks and the Kurds out so Russia and Syria can lock horns with ISIL?

Why do the kurds need to leave? They're working with the Russians/Syrians et al.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Time to get our folks and the Kurds out so Russia and Syria can lock horns with ISIL?

Why do the kurds need to leave? They're working with the Russians/Syrians et al.

 

 

Good point. If I was the Syrian opposition I would bug out to Western Iraq-- seems the Iraqi govt has no control there anyway-- and let everybody else fight ISIL and see where the pieces fall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The al Nusra boys have apparently been running into Aleppo. It's more likely they intend to blend in with the population if they can than stage a Stalingrad there. The IS guys have been unable to do much of late. They too seem desperate to maintain their supply lines with Turkey and the door has been swinging a wee bit more shut every day for months now. Their safe place, if it exists, is in western Iraq where they were hatched. ISIS is just Islamic State of Iraq with an al Sham (Syria) tacked on.

 

The rebs, if they do have a last stand, will probably stage it to the west of Aleppo, up against the Turkish border so they can be supplied. If the Turks intend to go to war with Russia to support them it will have to be pretty soon, I reckon. At this rate in a couple of months is about all the time they may have left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

The efforts of the Russian/Syrian/Hezzi/Iraqi coalition seem coordinated with our Kurdish one. They are both pushing to shut the lid of the "Cauldron" as Russians like to call them.

 

 

How can situations like this escape the eye of our media? They are no longer interested in journalism, that's why.

 

Anywho, if I were Daesh I'd consider getting my ass back into Iraq and becoming AQIM again. Hard to imagine them reversing this, but they might. Ya just never know.

 

 

 

 

The Kurds have a common enemy with the Islamic state apart from that the Russians are their best friend in that group, Assad and Iran persecute the Kurds while the Iraqis have given them some autonomy.

 

Journalists are the biggest bunch of drunks I have ever come across, they like a drink which might explain why many of them are short on facts.

 

Don't know how this will end some prick stole my crystal balls, I hope the Kurds can get their own country.

 

Why does the USA list the PKK as terrorists is it because your mates the Turkeys don't like that filthy kuffar atheist Abdullah Ocalan or is it because the Kurds flirted with communism and state atheism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Mahabad

 

 

They are terrorists. And you are aware, at some level, you've never had any balls, right?

 

 

Once upon a time the Afghan Mujahideen were considered freedom fighters by the USA then you realised they were terrorists, one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist.

One day the USA might get it right about the Kurds.

 

Many say the Kurds are 99% muslim, Harun Yahya says the Kurds are commie atheists and Abdullah Ocalan has perverse views about religion, he is a Turkey who the USA supports.

http://www.harunyahya.com/en/Articles/193326/the-pkk-is-atheist

 

These Chechens who look like Beavis and Butthead only went to Kobane to teach the Kurds religion and save them from commie atheism.

http://www.rferl.org/content/under-black-flag-chechen-militants-saving-urds-communism/26688138.html

 

The Kurds like posting pics of that filthy kuffar atheist Abdullah Ocalan in their gatherings, has he united a people spread through Syria ,Iran ,Turkey and Iraq.Saddam's Al Anfal campaign of genocide against the Kurds was named after Chapter 8 in the Quran.

 

The Allah of the Quran says atheists are the worst living creatures, 13 countries with Islam as the state religion have the death penalty for atheists.

http://www.quran.com/8/55

 

What is being done about the Islamic state in Libya, there was no Islamic state in Libya before the Kenyan's Arab spring,Libya abandoned their WMD program when they saw what Bush did to Iraq.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the military is the one who is always accused of warmongering and looking for a fight. Balls!

I'd argue that the impression you complain about is created by the grunts, not the very senior leadership.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

And the military is the one who is always accused of warmongering and looking for a fight. Balls!

I'd argue that the impression you complain about is created by the grunts, not the very senior leadership.

 

No, that impression that I complain about is specifically from numerous posters here (I'm too lazy to look them up) who have specifically said it was the military who would get us into wars because we had to justify all our shiny new toys and/or that the military looks at every problem from a military solution standpoint. The grunts don't make those decisions, so they could have only been talking about the Sr Leadership.

 

I think even you would agree that there have been some crazy motherfuckers who got promoted to very high positions.

 

In general, I would agree with you that the pentagon is not the most hawkish part of the us gov in recent years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trump team looking for a Vietnam style victory, in Syria 4sure!

 

And they'll win too if those fucking libs don't stab them in the back like they did in Nam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Trump team looking for a Vietnam style victory, in Syria 4sure!

 

And they'll win too if those fucking libs don't stab them in the back like they did in Nam.

 

 

Meanwhile, Hillary is screaming for more blood. She's a lib, right?

 

 

No - by any sane measure she is fairly right wing.

 

But then we are talking about the USA so.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Trump team looking for a Vietnam style victory, in Syria 4sure!

And they'll win too if those fucking libs don't stab them in the back like they did in Nam.

Meanwhile, Hillary is screaming for more blood. She's a lib, right?

No - by any sane measure she is fairly right wing.

 

But then we are talking about the USA so.....

Ha! Hillary Clinton a "lib"!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I remember when Viet Nam crossed that line.

 

It turned out to be a false flag where 55,000 Americans died along with millions of Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians and countless others being maimed and wounded. All great stuff and the Military Industrial Complex made a bundle!

 

Civilians are still getting their limbs blown off from the unexploded ordinance in Laos.

 

Makes one proud.

 

 

Unexploded ordnance in the Ukraine made a nice mushroom cloud on Thursday. The 2:00 mark is especially nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was that an ammunition dump that went up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should have waited for nightfall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Trump team looking for a Vietnam style victory, in Syria 4sure!

And they'll win too if those fucking libs don't stab them in the back like they did in Nam.

Meanwhile, Hillary is screaming for more blood. She's a lib, right?

Only a couple CDS sufferers called Hillary a lib, led by a rat named Happy Malarky. Cousin of yours?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's fun to compare the responses (or mostly lack thereof) of folks in this thread about what course of action Obummer should take. Lots of folks seemed so unwilling to go on record before Obummer announced his course of action. I guess it makes some sense. How could principled people know which course of action they favored until Obummer showed them which action was wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

And the military is the one who is always accused of warmongering and looking for a fight. Balls!

I'd argue that the impression you complain about is created by the grunts, not the very senior leadership.

No, that impression that I complain about is specifically from numerous posters here (I'm too lazy to look them up) who have specifically said it was the military who would get us into wars because we had to justify all our shiny new toys and/or that the military looks at every problem from a military solution standpoint. The grunts don't make those decisions, so they could have only been talking about the Sr Leadership.

I think even you would agree that there have been some crazy motherfuckers who got promoted to very high positions.

 

In general, I would agree with you that the pentagon is not the most hawkish part of the us gov in recent years.

That said, THE SURGE seemed to be being pushed by the pentagon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/28/2013 at 11:30 AM, Sol Rosenberg said:

It's a moot point; we cannot afford another adventure at the present time, even if policing the world was the proper role for the US, which it is not. Stay out of it, and in the process, avoid being blamed for it.

Oh well.

Would have been a good SOLution in 2013 but better late than never.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/18/2013 at 8:51 PM, Mark K said:

Gentlemen, there will be no fighting in the War Room!

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-18/pentagon-shoots-down-kerry-s-syria-airstrike-plan.html

 

 

Twenty years ago, in a debate over the war in Bosnia, Madeleine Albright, then the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, issued a challenge to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Colin Powell. Albright wanted the U.S. to confront an aggressive Serbia; Powell and the Pentagon were hesitant. Albright grew frustrated: “What’s the point of having this superb military that you’re always talking about if we can’t use it?” Albright asked. Powell later said that he thought Albright was going to give him an aneurysm.

 

Flash-forward to this past Wednesday. At a principals meeting in the White House situation room, Secretary of State John Kerry began arguing, vociferously, for immediate U.S. airstrikes against airfields under the control of Bashar al-Assad’s Syrian regime -- specifically, those fields it has used to launch chemical weapons raids against rebel forces.

 

It was at this point that the current chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the usually mild-mannered Army General Martin Dempsey, spoke up, loudly. According to several sources, Dempsey threw a series of brushback pitches at Kerry, demanding to know just exactly what the post-strike plan would be and pointing out that the State Department didn’t fully grasp the complexity of such an operation.

 

Dempsey informed Kerry that the Air Force could not simply drop a few bombs, or fire a few missiles, at targets inside Syria: To be safe, the U.S. would have to neutralize Syria’s integrated air-defense system, an operation that would require 700 or more sorties. At a time when the U.S. military is exhausted, and when sequestration is ripping into the Pentagon budget, Dempsey is said to have argued that a demand by the State Department for precipitous military action in a murky civil war wasn’t welcome.

 

 

Military Wariness

Officials with knowledge of the meeting say that Kerry gave as good as he got, and that the discussion didn’t reach aneurysm-producing levels. But it was, in diplomatic parlance, a full and frank vetting of the profound differences between State and Defense on Syria. Dempsey was adamant: Without much of an entrance strategy, without anything resembling an exit strategy, and without even a clear-eyed understanding of the consequences of an American airstrike, the Pentagon would be extremely reluctant to get behind Kerry’s plan.

 

As we know now, the Pentagon’s position is in sync with President Barack Obama’s. The outcome of the meeting last week was to formalize a decision made weeks ago to supply the more moderate elements of the Syrian opposition with small arms and ammunition. The assessment by U.S. intelligence agencies that Assad had used chemical weapons against small pockets of rebels -- confirming those made several months earlier by the intelligence agencies of U.S. friends in Europe and the Middle East -- forced the administration to make a gesture of support for the opposition.

 

Members of the White House national security team, who tend to be more hawkish than Obama or Dempsey (though not as quite as militant as Kerry), had been arguing that, in the words of Tony Blinken, the deputy national security adviser, “superpowers don’t bluff.” Once Obama had drawn a red line around chemical weapons, the White House had no choice but to take some sort of action.

Blinken was clever to use the word “bluff” in his arguments to the president, implicitly linking his posture on Syria to his position on Iran’s nuclear program. Last year, in an interview with me on the subject of Iran, Obama said, “As president of the United States, I don’t bluff.” On Iran, he has lived up to his words, but he was in danger -- and remains in danger -- of being seen as a bluffer on Syria.

 

 

No Bluffing

What is so odd about Dempsey’s adamant opposition to Kerry’s aggressive proposals is that it hasn’t previously been made public. Obama told Charlie Rose this week that he is worried about sliding down the slippery slope toward greater intervention in Syria. Having Dempsey openly in his corner would be useful to him, but the administration hasn’t made hay over the Pentagon’s opposition to airstrikes. (When I asked the Pentagon for official comment, Dempsey’s spokesman would only say that he would not “discuss classified internal deliberations,” though he went on to say that the National Security Council principals “routinely debate a wide range of options to include how the military can and should support a comprehensive, regional approach to this conflict.”)

 

One senior administration official explained it this way: The White House doesn’t want Dempsey to make an enthusiastic case on “Meet the Press” against intervention, just in case Obama one day decides to follow Kerry’s advice and get more deeply involved. At that point, Dempsey's arguments against greater involvement could come back to haunt the administration.

 

The decision to provide small arms to the Syrian opposition has made no one happy -- not the rebels, who understand that these quite-possibly ineffective weapons will take many months to reach them; not Kerry, who, while arguing that these shipments may become a “force multiplier” in the conflict, thinks that only a show of American air power will convince Assad and his Hezbollah allies that the U.S. is making a serious attempt to level a playing field that has been tilting their way for some time; and not the Pentagon, which thinks that Obama, despite saying that he is wary of the slippery slope, might be pushed down that slope anyway, by interventionists on his team or by events on the ground.

 

It is possible, even for those of us who have been inclined toward intervention, to have a great deal of sympathy for Dempsey’s position. There are those in the Pentagon who think that the State Department has romanticized the Syrian opposition. What diplomats see as a civil war featuring bands of poorly armed moderates struggling to free themselves from the grip of an evil dictator, the generals see as a religious war between Hezbollah and al-Qaeda. Why would the U.S. risk taking sides in a battle between two loathed terror organizations? Memories of Iraq, too, are fresh in the minds of Dempsey and his colleagues.

 

On the other hand, a Kerry partisan told me, U.S. intervention in Syria would not necessarily have to look like U.S. intervention in Iraq. When I mentioned the Albright-Powell exchange of 20 years ago, he pointed out something obvious: President Bill Clinton eventually decided to use air power in the Balkans. And it brought the Serbian government to its knees.

Too bad no one wanted to hear what Dempsey was saying back then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/24/2013 at 11:24 AM, Sol Rosenberg said:

I was referring to the guy in the post I quoted, i.e. Gingrich and his Libyan flip flop. As I recall, most folks around here were very careful to stay off the record about Libya and now Syria. Some were not. I said we couldn't afford to mess with Libya, and that it wasn't our business. I still don't think we should have been involved. I think the same about Syria.

Still right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/24/2013 at 11:04 AM, Clove Hitch said:

Why don't you tell us what Obama should do? I'll tell you what I think he should do-- diplomatic support against Assad, but nothing else. We can't fucking afford it. Let Israel deal with it.

That's the kind of thing Putin's bitches are saying these days.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/7/2013 at 11:56 AM, d'ranger said:

If John McCain was POTUS and Lindsey Graham was VP or Sec. of Defense we would now be mired in deep shit.

Dodged that bullet! Whew!

 

On 5/7/2013 at 11:56 AM, d'ranger said:

These guys think that somehow we can intervene and win with no boots on the ground. Both wars. First overthrowing Assad and then overthrowing the Islamic extremists.

Lindsey may have come around on that point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/8/2013 at 6:38 AM, Olsonist said:

Everyone loses in Syria. Russia loses a client and a port. Turkey, Israel and Jordan get a failed state with guns. We get nothing. The fall of Assad does not mean Syria will be opening Walmart stores. Syria will be just another failed Islamic state. This one really is like winning an earthquake.

 

At least in Libya we had a reason for wanting Qaddafi to die a violent humiliating death, not that we're getting anything for our troubles.

Winning an earthquake is a great description.

We did get a failed state and terrorist haven for our efforts in Libya. That's Smart Power In Action.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/8/2013 at 3:16 PM, Mark K said:
On 5/8/2013 at 5:38 AM, JBSF said:

Oh, I totally agree with that assessment. I would just Russia would see the longer view and see Assad as a goner. Its going to happen now sooner rather than later. Especially if he keeps cheming and using airstrikes on his people. I think if he had kept the civil war slightly civil instead of the brutality he's employed, no one would have batted an eye. As it is, he practically forcing our hand to take action. Russia MUST see that as well. I just can't imagine their calculus doesn't include cutting their losses and working for the next best thing which is to get behind the more secular rebels and attempt to bolster them in hopes that they can strangle off the islamists.

 

And yes, I also agree that the root cause of this kind of unrest and such in the ME is youth with nothing to do and no hope for a future. You don't often strap on bombs to yourself when you're a happy blue collar or middle-class worker raising a family.

 

Big questions on who used the chem. The rebs have been busted trying to fake it before, and what's the story? How many patients? What exactly is the evidence? The rebs remain the ones who are more likely to gain. Assad would be smart to get rid of the stuff.

 

As far as him being doomed goes, I'm not sold on that yet. The people who are fighting for him in there now seem to feel they have nothing to lose and will fight to the last man. Doesn't look like they will be able to keep the whole thing, but they have a shot at hanging on to a chunk for themselves.

Turns out Assad's demise was not so close 5 years ago.

As for the chemicals, someone blew up some chlorine or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Mark K said:

It was close, hanging by a thread. 

 

Olsonist's description was apt: winning an earthquake.

Had we managed to de-regime the place, well, that hasn't gone so well in other places like Iraq and Libya.

We didn't. Oh well. Having Assad in power hasn't gone all that great either, but Trump has been saying we shouldn't be involved since back before Obama got involved and it is nice to see action instead of words on that subject.

Precipitous, perhaps reckless action. But that's the only kind Trump knows and you play the hand you're dealt. In any case, it would be funny to go up to some Kurds over there and say, "So sorry that an American President has abandoned you for the very first time in history." You know, just to see what they do. Maybe wear good running shoes to that meeting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/12/2013 at 2:15 PM, austin1972 said:

We've let enough blood spill over that piece of earth. Time for someone else to step up. Maybe the ME can rake it's own yard for once?

My country is not their pool boy.

So much vintage wisdom in this thread.

Prescient on the raking meme too, well done!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites