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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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BlueBoy

2013 Sydney to Hobart

3,130 posts in this topic

So most of this thread, also the HK to Vietnam thread, then obviously the Speedboat and Ragamuffin threads have been about the big boats. Seems that is what everyone is interested in. Some come boxing day and 7 just cover the big boats everyone not sailing comes back here and complains there is too much big boat coverage

For me the biggest change looks to be a lot of high quality competition in the 40ft range and not so much in the 50ft range this year. Other than Wedgetail and a couple of cooksons maybe the Welbourne 50. There was 5 * 50's in the top 10 on IRc last year, not going to happen this year

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Don't underestimate the 70's if we have a long period of hard reaching or running. They are still putting up sail when the supermaxi's are backing off. Last year's course would suit the new black jack pretty well i reckon.

 

In anything aft of 90 degrees, and below 40 knots, the TP52's will surely beat the Clipperslugs

 

The only point of sail where they would stand a chance is heavy weather on the nose.

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So most of this thread, also the HK to Vietnam thread, then obviously the Speedboat and Ragamuffin threads have been about the big boats. Seems that is what everyone is interested in. Some come boxing day and 7 just cover the big boats everyone not sailing comes back here and complains there is too much big boat coverage

For me the biggest change looks to be a lot of high quality competition in the 40ft range and not so much in the 50ft range this year. Other than Wedgetail and a couple of cooksons maybe the Welbourne 50. There was 5 * 50's in the top 10 on IRc last year, not going to happen this year

 

You write it and people will read it.

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Don't underestimate the 70's if we have a long period of hard reaching or running. They are still putting up sail when the supermaxi's are backing off. Last year's course would suit the new black jack pretty well i reckon.

 

In anything aft of 90 degrees, and below 40 knots, the TP52's will surely beat the Clipperslugs

 

The only point of sail where they would stand a chance is heavy weather on the nose.

Sorry, i meant volvo 70's ( and specifically a modified one). Don't rate the clipper boats for much in terms of line honours placing and think that a cookson 50 will

smash them.

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Don't underestimate the 70's if we have a long period of hard reaching or running. They are still putting up sail when the supermaxi's are backing off. Last year's course would suit the new black jack pretty well i reckon.

 

In anything aft of 90 degrees, and below 40 knots, the TP52's will surely beat the Clipperslugs

 

The only point of sail where they would stand a chance is heavy weather on the nose.

Sorry, i meant volvo 70's ( and specifically a modified one). Don't rate the clipper boats for much in terms of line honours placing and think that a HPR 40 Footer will

smash them. Fixed

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Don't underestimate the 70's if we have a long period of hard reaching or running. They are still putting up sail when the supermaxi's are backing off. Last year's course would suit the new black jack pretty well i reckon.

 

In anything aft of 90 degrees, and below 40 knots, the TP52's will surely beat the Clipperslugs

 

The only point of sail where they would stand a chance is heavy weather on the nose.

 

Only one TP52 entered (and it's not one of the quickest around).

 

Clippers are a good boost for entries and a very different design approach to the out and out race boats so not expected to be up the front.

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Is that Frantic smc? None of the Calm incarnations or have they been 'restricted' now?

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Don't forget the new Beau Geste, a completely purpose built Botin 80 ocean racer campaigned by Karl Kwok and skippered by Gavinn Brady. Actually think they will beat Wild Thing and Lahana. The new Ichi Bahn Carkeek 60 worth watching as well.

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The only TP52 on the list is Frantic. It's a shame SWD can't seem to keep their TP52 on the water....

 

Mex

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Don't forget the new Beau Geste, a completely purpose built Botin 80 ocean racer campaigned by Karl Kwok and skippered by Gavinn Brady. Actually think they will beat Wild Thing and Lahana. The new Ichi Bahn Carkeek 60 worth watching as well.

Interested to see how Varuna and Kerumba perform also.

 

Mex

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Kerumba is lucky to beat to Farr 40 od around the track most days

It is a cruising boat.

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Yep Frantic the only TP52 on the list, fairly early generation boat, would still be a fun ride but not up to the speed of Calm. Calm tied up with financial issues at the moment. Calm 2 not an ocean racer. Calm 3 (VO70) never happened. SWD TP for sale, http://www.yoti.com.au/tp-52-wot-eva/ Shogun I think was sold to a NZ buyer. Scarlet runner doing Cape Town to Rio race. Cougar not making the trip this year?

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Yep Frantic the only TP52 on the list, fairly early generation boat, would still be a fun ride but not up to the speed of Calm. Calm tied up with financial issues at the moment. Calm 2 not an ocean racer. Calm 3 (VO70) never happened. SWD TP for sale, http://www.yoti.com.au/tp-52-wot-eva/ Shogun I think was sold to a NZ buyer. Scarlet runner doing Cape Town to Rio race. Cougar not making the trip this year?

 

Quest?

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Quest not going to Hobart, Bob is going to Antarctica! Coffs a possibility I guess....

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Ichi Ban is Carkeek 60, not 40. Right?

 

With powered winches so expect flaming......

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Ichi Ban is Carkeek 60, not 40. Right?

 

With powered winches so expect flaming......

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I like powered winches. What trimmer doesn't?

 

But it's a bit rich to claim some bullshit about the 'heritage' of the race if you suspend the RRS regarding diesel engines powering sailing systems. Not much heritage in powered sailing.

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I'm sorry Gybeset; I haven't kept up with my gibberish lessons. Do you have a translator?

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I'm sorry Gybeset; I haven't kept up with my gibberish lessons. Do you have a translator?

Ignoring him is easier. ;)

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I don't care who wins, just hoping for a nice ride back from Hobart. Hmmmm!!! Can't wait.

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Is the Ker 11.3 toe truck still mixing it up (down) there with ye?

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I don't care who wins, just hoping for a nice ride back from Hobart. Hmmmm!!! Can't wait.

You're probably not going through Dunalley.. but if you do, make sure you drop some coin in the fisho (if its still standing) and the pub there.

 

They need it after last year.

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I'm sorry Gybeset; I haven't kept up with my gibberish lessons. Do you have a translator?

Ignoring him is easier. ;)

7 should get him onboard to translate the rugby commentator`s views into Brownie mumble speak & visa versa.

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through Dunalley.. but if you do, make sure you drop some coin in the fisho (if its still standing) and the pub there.

They need it after last year.

fish market is still there, and more importantly so is the pub!

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through Dunalley.. but if you do, make sure you drop some coin in the fisho (if its still standing) and the pub there.

 

They need it after last year.

fish market is still there, and more importantly so is the pub!

 

 

that's excellent to hear -- how's the rest of rebuilding going on?

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through Dunalley.. but if you do, make sure you drop some coin in the fisho (if its still standing) and the pub there.

 

They need it after last year.

fish market is still there, and more importantly so is the pub!

 

that's excellent to hear -- how's the rest of rebuilding going on?

Is that from the fires?

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Don't forget the new Beau Geste, a completely purpose built Botin 80 ocean racer campaigned by Karl Kwok and skippered by Gavinn Brady. Actually think they will beat Wild Thing and Lahana. The new Ichi Bahn Carkeek 60 worth watching as well.

Lahana still not entered so will be Beau Geste v Wild thing and zefiro.

 

Be interesting to see Giacomo v Ichi Ban and Beau Geste v Giacomo if it blows

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I haven't seen the foils on Ichi Bahn so I assume she is a fixed keel single rudder? If that were the case she would need lighter conditions to upset Giacomo I would have thought. The Volvo 70's are extremely suited to the Hobart especially if it blows with plenty of reaching and running. Beau Geste not sure on her full spec yet other than twin rudders.?

 

Don't forget the new Beau Geste, a completely purpose built Botin 80 ocean racer campaigned by Karl Kwok and skippered by Gavinn Brady. Actually think they will beat Wild Thing and Lahana. The new Ichi Bahn Carkeek 60 worth watching as well.


Lahana still not entered so will be Beau Geste v Wild thing and zefiro.

Be interesting to see Giacomo v Ichi Ban and Beau Geste v Giacomo if it blows

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I haven't seen the foils on Ichi Bahn so I assume she is a fixed keel single rudder? If that were the case she would need lighter conditions to upset Giacomo I would have thought. The Volvo 70's are extremely suited to the Hobart especially if it blows with plenty of reaching and running. Beau Geste not sure on her full spec yet other than twin rudders.?

 

Don't forget the new Beau Geste, a completely purpose built Botin 80 ocean racer campaigned by Karl Kwok and skippered by Gavinn Brady. Actually think they will beat Wild Thing and Lahana. The new Ichi Bahn Carkeek 60 worth watching as well.

Lahana still not entered so will be Beau Geste v Wild thing and zefiro.

 

Be interesting to see Giacomo v Ichi Ban and Beau Geste v Giacomo if it blows

 

 

Yeah I am aware of that, Which is why it will be interesting to see what happens because Matt Allen's previous boat was a ....... DING DING DING .... V070

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When did the sale of SMB happen?

 

A few months back I think, she's coming to Melbs

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A quick step away from the larger boats....Enchantress is back for a second try.....11 meters, designed and built by the owner. No power winches or professional crew. Won the Melbourne Hobart 2011 ?.

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A quick step away from the larger boats....Enchantress is back for a second try.....11 meters, designed and built by the owner. No power winches or professional crew. Won the Melbourne Hobart 2011 ?.

Nice looking little boat, makes me think of an Adams design for some reason

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A quick step away from the larger boats....Enchantress is back for a second try.....11 meters, designed and built by the owner. No power winches or professional crew. Won the Melbourne Hobart 2011 ?.

Nice looking little boat, makes me think of an Adams design for some reason

 

Nice to see a boat and crew not part of the big money parade, (there are others)......one to watch and maybe upset some of the bigger names.....but whether they do or don't, it is the competing that matters.

 

 

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A quick step away from the larger boats....Enchantress is back for a second try.....11 meters, designed and built by the owner. No power winches or professional crew. Won the Melbourne Hobart 2011 ?.

She's for sale ATM to.

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Oooh look, they said it again about coverage of the start:

 

The start of the Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race will be broadcast live on the Seven Network throughout Australia, webcast live to a global audience on Yahoo!7 and the Australia Network throughout the Asia Pacific Region.

http://www.rolexsydneyhobart.com/news/2013/pre-race/ninety-seven-signed-on-for-2013-rolex-sydney-hobart/

 

I wonder if they mean it this time?

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Someone told me that the Sydney to Hobart has the best mainstream media coverage of any race in the world... is this true? :lol:

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Has Ichi Ban hit the water yet? Interesting to see if the 60 is as potent as the 40 under IRC

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Has Ichi Ban hit the water yet? Interesting to see if the 60 is as potent as the 40 under IRC

 

She's going to be splashed mid-month

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Oooh look, they said it again about coverage of the start:

 

The start of the Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race will be broadcast live on the Seven Network throughout Australia, webcast live to a global audience on Yahoo!7 and the Australia Network throughout the Asia Pacific Region.

http://www.rolexsydneyhobart.com/news/2013/pre-race/ninety-seven-signed-on-for-2013-rolex-sydney-hobart/

 

I wonder if they mean it this time?

They've said something about streaming the start for two years now, but all I could ever find was a short raw video and a bunch of repetitive 7 clips, not live. You too?

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They've said something about streaming the start for two years now, but all I could ever find was a short raw video and a bunch of repetitive 7 clips, not live. You too?

That sounds like the free to air coverage to me.

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Has Ichi Ban hit the water yet? Interesting to see if the 60 is as potent as the 40 under IRC

 

She's going to be splashed mid-month

 

She certainly looks the business! Interesting to see how well she rates

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They've said something about streaming the start for two years now, but all I could ever find was a short raw video and a bunch of repetitive 7 clips, not live. You too?

That sounds like the free to air coverage to me.

 

The 'free air' coverage that 90% 99% of the time focuses on the 7 on WOs mainsail.

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I'll be out there at the start spectating, will get as much as I can on here for SA. May not be that flash, but probably better than Ch7...

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Clean you know I have something planned. Will fill you in when I can. It will be a different setup than what we did last year and testing my skills!

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There's no doubting Ichi Bahn will be fast. The Carkeek 40 has been smashing everything. This years Hobart shaping up to be a ripper, lets hope the weather co-operates. The 100 footers Oats and Loyal should be a great one, people have been wanting this for a long time. Beau Geste will beat Wild Thing over the line imo and don't be surprised if Wild Thing is as far back as 6th for line honours which is something for a 100 footer, that's how good the fleet is.

 

Anyone want to start the odds for line honours, especially Oats vs Loyal..?

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Oooh look, they said it again about coverage of the start:

 

The start of the Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race will be broadcast live on the Seven Network throughout Australia, webcast live to a global audience on Yahoo!7 and the Australia Network throughout the Asia Pacific Region.

http://www.rolexsydneyhobart.com/news/2013/pre-race/ninety-seven-signed-on-for-2013-rolex-sydney-hobart/

 

I wonder if they mean it this time?

They've said something about streaming the start for two years now, but all I could ever find was a short raw video and a bunch of repetitive 7 clips, not live. You too?

I watched live start on yahoo!7 two years ago here in europe.

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I agree with Duncan, hasn't been a big blow in ages.... 2004 was the last big one wasn't it?

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What do you consider a big blow??
most years someone comments on being due for a blow..

surely there is someone around with too much time on their hands that could make

up some weather statistics for the race...

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3 days of 30-40.

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3 days of 30-40.

Yep. 2004 was last prolonged blow and before that 2000 was long way uphill

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no thanks. the 2 days of 35ish from the south and crappy short seas left from a week of northerlies in 2011 was crap enough. I reckon we must be due for 4 days of 20knot ENE

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Perhaps it was the speed in which the mast dropped to leeward when the keel went bang?

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Maybe I'm outa touch, but can we really believe that LOYAL/Speedyboat has reached 49kts? I suggest not.

 

Here's the claim here: http://www.perpetual.com.au/LOYAL.aspx

 

of course we can. Gravity says it'll do that speed if you drop it from about 40m height. Off a cargo lift should do it.

 

Never mind that Vestas sailrocket had to develop cavitating foils, or that Hydroptere did a moth impression to reach those speeds.

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49 Knots.! I find that hard to believe, I know the Volvo 70's have reached 40 knots, it's perhaps possible but more likely a GPS fluctuation.

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49 Knots.! I find that hard to believe, I know the Volvo 70's have reached 40 knots, it's perhaps possible but more likely a GPS fluctuation.

 

Yeah, Ken Read said they had the Volvo at 40+ but that was "falling off a cliff of a wave".

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Nah that was 2006. 2004 we ran out of string. Broke every halyard except the main and we were only just past Eden. Pushed on for a while bare headed with two tucks and got the next forecast. It was 40+ from due south for 4 days. Went to Eden which was packed! 2005 won div. 2006 sunk while giving Love and War a belting.

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49 knots. They are pulling themselves. Several of the VO70's have reported touching 40 for a split second of sheer terror then dropping back fast. I don't believe that is within the realms of possibility of any conventional monohull. AC72's needed to take to the air to reach those speeds.

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I was told by crew that Groupama hit 43 and change on a wave, but we were all pretty drunk when that story came around.

 

Rambler 90 has hit a little bit more than that on a delivery.

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What happened to WOXI doing the Cabbage Tree Island race ? Wasn't she supposed to be a starter ?

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I suspect (but do not know) that with a new mast and a gusty forecast they might have decided against it.

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I saw the start on the web 2 years ago as well. I heard last year it didn't work, but I was not trying to watch. I expect to be watching this year, so I hope they get it together. Getting a live broadcast together for a global audience from a helo or few is not a small undertaking, and there are many things that can go wrong, so you kinda need a large team of pros, and a bunch of redundancy in your tech and equipment to pull it off. I guess you could get a small army of very dedicated volunteers to do U-Stream from their iPhones on their motor boats, but then you have poor quality, and fans and volunteers alike are likely to be disappointed. Clean puts a lot of effort into covering a regatta in a cost effective way, and ends up with something that is compelling, but probably not appropriate for an event like the S2H.

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Oh, and the Loyal web site has an image that implies that the sprit is included in the 100' measurement...

 

perpetual_loyal_infographic.png

 

I assume that is an error?

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I believe they are very happy with it. Ricko told me last year they had to back off quite a bit in the hard running conditions, they were spearing the A3 into the waves very hard and were worried they were going to blow the sail up or worse still tear the sprit off. The DSS for them is just as much about lifting the bow as it is about increasing righting moment.

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I believe they are very happy with it. Ricko told me last year they had to back off quite a bit in the hard running conditions, they were spearing the A3 into the waves very hard and were worried they were going to blow the sail up or worse still tear the sprit off. The DSS for them is just as much about lifting the bow as it is about increasing righting moment.

I note WOXI lost 4 pips in last week's rating change and displacement has dropped around 140kg according to my calcs - new rig that much lighter I guess, but shouldn't reduce the rating. Something else also tweaked?

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You never know with those blokes, they love to keep something up their sleeves. Rig would be heaps lighter but 140 is a shitload.... could be I guess????

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You never know with those blokes, they love to keep something up their sleeves. Rig would be heaps lighter but 140 is a shitload.... could be I guess????

Difference in DLR between the last two certs back calculated.

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Rumors were they were trimming a bit of lead off the bulb since the DSS will add so much righting moment. That might drop her rating a little, but you would think the DSS would kick it up a pile, given IRC's dislike of new things

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Rumors were they were trimming a bit of lead off the bulb since the DSS will add so much righting moment. That might drop her rating a little, but you would think the DSS would kick it up a pile, given IRC's dislike of new things

Rated 1.945 in the 2012 Hobart and 1.987 at Hammo this year with the DSS...

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Hi,

 

A little something for all our friends racing this year Sydney-Hobart Race. Order any Foul Weather Gear and we will ship it for Free Worldwide.

SA-Top-Banner.jpg

Let us know if we can help or your crew in any way.

Regards,

Juan Mauri

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Not sure if they could do that as the DSS is only used when going downwind so if they removed lead it would effect their performance upwind. Unless of course they re-assessed the boat and found they could remove lead irrespective. The DSS is useless to them upwind but righting moment is king upwind.

Rumors were they were trimming a bit of lead off the bulb since the DSS will add so much righting moment. That might drop her rating a little, but you would think the DSS would kick it up a pile, given IRC's dislike of new things

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Not sure if they could do that as the DSS is only used when going downwind so if they removed lead it would effect their performance upwind. Unless of course they re-assessed the boat and found they could remove lead irrespective. The DSS is useless to them upwind but righting moment is king upwind.

Rumors were they were trimming a bit of lead off the bulb since the DSS will add so much righting moment. That might drop her rating a little, but you would think the DSS would kick it up a pile, given IRC's dislike of new things

Does WOXI still have the tungsten bulb? IIRC it did way back when and it was grandfathered in when IRC banned anything heavier than lead in response. Certainly the bulb looks small when you see it on the hard.

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Not sure if they could do that as the DSS is only used when going downwind so if they removed lead it would effect their performance upwind. Unless of course they re-assessed the boat and found they could remove lead irrespective. The DSS is useless to them upwind but righting moment is king upwind.

Rumors were they were trimming a bit of lead off the bulb since the DSS will add so much righting moment. That might drop her rating a little, but you would think the DSS would kick it up a pile, given IRC's dislike of new things

Does WOXI still have the tungsten bulb? IIRC it did way back when and it was grandfathered in when IRC banned anything heavier than lead in response. Certainly the bulb looks small when you see it on the hard.

Is the DSS truly useless upwind? I don't know what sorts of speed Oats would be rumbling along at, but surely it is quick enough to get some significant lift out of the foil. Their use of DSS during hammo might not be the best indicator, since it was the usual light air regatta.

I'm just spouting rumours with nothing to back it up, hoping someone will inject some facts into the speculation

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Generally you would expect the DSS to move the CLR to leeward thus inducing a bit of a lee-helm turning moment. No problem downwind I'd guess, and not necessarily an issue upwind if the boat was designed around that or had the rest of the foils moved to compensate. Don't know that's happened with WOXI so it might have a negative effect on pointing ability upwind.

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Have heard the foil adds next to no righting moment at all, apparently the Oats was fitted with load cells when trailing and saw no real Change in numbers on the rigging . As it's designed to lift the bow reaching you would think the lift would negate any righting moment increase .

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I saw the start on the web 2 years ago as well. I heard last year it didn't work, but I was not trying to watch. I expect to be watching this year, so I hope they get it together. Getting a live broadcast together for a global audience from a helo or few is not a small undertaking, and there are many things that can go wrong, so you kinda need a large team of pros, and a bunch of redundancy in your tech and equipment to pull it off. I guess you could get a small army of very dedicated volunteers to do U-Stream from their iPhones on their motor boats, but then you have poor quality, and fans and volunteers alike are likely to be disappointed. Clean puts a lot of effort into covering a regatta in a cost effective way, and ends up with something that is compelling, but probably not appropriate for an event like the S2H.

 

then how come these blokes pull it of week in week out

 

http://18footersTV.com

 

btw feature footage on LOYAL/sb in the vid from the 10th November, around the 2 min mark

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Not sure if they could do that as the DSS is only used when going downwind so if they removed lead it would effect their performance upwind. Unless of course they re-assessed the boat and found they could remove lead irrespective. The DSS is useless to them upwind but righting moment is king upwind.

 

Rumors were they were trimming a bit of lead off the bulb since the DSS will add so much righting moment. That might drop her rating a little, but you would think the DSS would kick it up a pile, given IRC's dislike of new things

Does WOXI still have the tungsten bulb? IIRC it did way back when and it was grandfathered in when IRC banned anything heavier than lead in response. Certainly the bulb looks small when you see it on the hard.

Alfa Romeo had the tungsten bulb, not Wild Oats.

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